8:49am: The talks are not that far along and the A's have not asked for Middlebrooks, tweets ESPN's Buster Olney. The A's would need more, but WEEI's Alex Speier tweets that they've liked Lars Anderson, Raul Alcantara, and Brandon Workman. Things are currently quiet on the Bailey-Red Sox trade front, tweets Gordon Edes of ESPNBoston.
6:39am: The A's asked the Red Sox for third base prospect Will Middlebrooks, writes the Boston Globe's Nick Cafardo. It's probably safe to assume that Middlebrooks, 23, is not one of the prospects mentioned in Gammons' proposal.
5:01am: Peter Gammons of MLB Network tweets that the Athletics are considering a trade offer from the Red Sox that includes Josh Reddick and prospects in exchange for Andrew Bailey. Jed Lowrie is not in this proposal.
The 24-year-old Reddick appeared at all three outfield spots for the Sox in 2011 (earning stellar reviews from UZR and DRS in an admittedly small sample) and hit a solid .280/.327/.457 in 278 plate appearances.
The A's stand to lose their entire starting outfield of David DeJesus (already signed with the Cubs), Coco Crisp, and Josh Willingham to free agency this offseason, so it makes sense that they would have interest in controllable outfielders.
The two teams were reportedly set to meet on Tuesday to discuss a potential Bailey trade, though is is the first we've heard of the results.
Yanks get Gio, sox get bailey .. Same ole same ole
Marlins get Reyes, Bell, maybe Pujols… same ole same ole….
I hear you, man. But to be honest, I’d rather keep Reddick. I really like that guy. He’s going to be damn good I think.
I like Reddick, too. IF he, kalish, iglesias, middlebooks, jacobs etc… can bring back STARTING Pitching DO IT! No relievers unless they are solid and 1 for 1 straight up… maybe.
I don’t think you move Middlebrooks unless you are getting a lot in return. This guy is going to be somethign special, in my opinion anyways…
Me too man. I think Reddick will only get better over time. Trading 3 top prospects for 1 guy makes me feel like they should have just paid Papelbon the $$
Wait Reddick is still a prospect? A top one too?
Top prospects mean that they are more than backup outfielders. Lars Anderson is NOT a top prospect
Top prospects mean that they are more than backup outfielders. Lars Anderson is NOT a top prospect
A package of Reddick and Lowrie would get this done. I’m still not sold on either completely though. The A’s have to give Allen, Carter, Taylor and Barton the playing time. They need to figure out what these guys can do.
Really?
Is it just me who thinks Reddick for Bailey is a deal the A’s should have ripped the Red Sox’s arm off when accepting? If they end up getting Jed Lowrie as well then hats off to Oakland. A potential every day (young) RF for a relief pitcher?
Don’t get me wrong, I’d be content going into the season with Reddick as our starting right fielder on an interim basis (In Boston where his bat wouldn’t play too horribly), but I don’t see him as a fit for Oakland at all. His offense is based purely on power (Career SLG of .500 in the minors), but he can’t buy a walk (.332 career OBP) and his ability to hit for average has been minimal the last three years in the minors. I just don’t see him playing that well in a big park. His defense would be great there, but his best projections would peg him as a fourth outfielder unless he can improve his plate discipline.
Personally, I’d move on if Beane is that insistant on Middlebrooks. That’s just not realistic – both for the obvious reasons (he’s a reliever) and underlying issues (his injury history). Kalish and a low-level prospect would be the farthest I’d go for him. The market is just way too deep right now to buckle to something like that for a player in one of the most replaceable positions in baseball.
reddick has flashed discipline.he was walking close to 15% of the time before being called up last season and walked at 9% clip in the bigs for the first couple of months he played
it has been his biggest weakness historically, and it could always hold him back. but it’s been a major focus for him in the organization and if he can keep himself in check, he’s got enough power to be a valuable everyday RF
Agreed in principle. As he is CURRENTLY constituted, I’d call him a borderline fourth outfielder/starter. He could easily start for a lower tier team like and he’s got a lot of potential. I wouldn’t even call him a lost cause, he’s only 24 and I can’t stress the kid’s power potential enough. When your biggest problem is your plate discipline, something that’s much easier to fix than many other potential weaknesses, you’ve got the potential to be a starter. My biggest argument against him is that I think Kalish has more potential as a complete player.
If the Sox are offering Reddick for Bailey, they must have some other plan for right field then. Maybe a 1-2 year deal with Willingham (that’s if Willingham can even play right field and is a good enough fielder, I have no clue I’m just shootin’ out ideas) cause I don’t think Kalish is ready yet to fill that role.
probably not, but he will be next year (and possibly this year if he surprises). reddick is talented, but expendable. there’s tons of OF depth in the system and a couple of worthy short-term free agents
A decent right-handed bat for the outfield would be good for balance of the lineup and probably remove some of the sting of having Igelsias’ bat at short (assuming if they do go out and get a RH OF and assuming they “use depth at shortstop” to their advantage)
Maybe this means we are going to try Bard out in the rotation? Hopefully we pad this rotation one way or another. Maybe bring back Bedard and snag Harden?
You know what would be nice to see is Tazawa get a rotation spot out of ST. Last year coming off TJ surgery he actually looked pretty solid despite his ERA and struck out a batter an inning.
Oh boy how a Gio/Bailey deal would solve so many problems for this team. Please do it Ben! Give em the choice of three of Middlebrooks, Anderson, Reddick, Alex Wilson, and Kalish then some prospects.
You do realize that 29 major league, 4 Chinese, and 2 Japanese teams could all beat that offer. Or maybe I just misread your statement and a choice of three proposal was for Bailey only, which would make sense.
First off Middlebrooks for Bailey would be a loss for us. Bailey is an injury prone reliever he isn’t going to get some huge haul of top prospects. Second sure many other teams could top that offer, but many of them don’t need those guys, and many of them wouldn’t give them the prospects you think they would. Gio is a very nice #2 starter thats all. He isn’t Cliff Lee so nobody should be expecting some legendary farm system emptying haul for him.
Cherrington is looking for a cheaper option at closer, that’s why he’s going for Bailey. Beane wants prospects who are almost major league ready, one top prospect won’t get this deal done.
If Reddick and some solid prospects isn’t enough for Bailey we should hang up the phone.
3 prospects for a reliever? No way.
Maybe they could, but it would be stupid to for a reliever.
The Red Sox could beat that offer too.
It’s easy to look smart when you pick on dumb people.
Bailey is great, but he has had arm trouble 2 years ago. Beane will want Reddick and Middlebrooks.
He had arm trouble last year.
Then I say we shop elsewhere because thats a severe overpay. If we are getting rid of Middlebrooks and some of the nicer prospects it has to be for a legit #1 starter. Not a reliever in hopes that Bard translates well.
I want Bailey, but PLEASE don’t do Middlebrooks. He’s a reliever. Maybe if Gio gets thrown in as well, and Boston increases the quality of the package, sure. Not for a reliever alone, though.
I agree I would toss them Middlebrooks, Reddick, Alex Wilson, Lowrie, and some lower tier guys. That gives the A’s a potentially excellent 3B and closer prospect for the future. While also giving them an OF they need and a solid player in Lowrie who they can flip or play at 2B, 3B, or SS.
Top closers are going for 7 to 12 million in free agency, that’s the market right know.
id rather the Sox pay 8-10 million for Madson or K-Rod then give up top young talent for Bailey just to save money..
If they are going to give away guys like Middlebrooks it shoudl be for a good starter not a bullpen arm..
Exactly. I don’t get why you would give up a guy like Middlebrooks for a reliever in order to save money. You might as well trade Youkilis for a starter and let Middlebrooks play 3rd. That way you would save a ton. Man, Theo did a good job of screwing things up before he left. No wonder he moved on.
id rather the Sox pay 8-10 million for Madson or K-Rod then give up top young talent for Bailey just to save money..
If they are going to give away guys like Middlebrooks it shoudl be for a good starter not a bullpen arm..
Which has NOTHING to do with giving up prospects for a reliever.
They better not trade their best prospect for a reliever who will probably go on the DL next year anyway when they already have someone to close games for them.
If they get a closer it almost signifies for sure that Bard is headed to the rotation.
That’s not the point. The point is you don’t give up your best prospect for a relief pitcher, especially when you already have someone who could fill that role.
Not necessarily. I’m still of the mind that the Sox value Bard as the “relief ace.” The Rays have proved for like three years running now that building a bullpen from spare parts is the best way to go (And heck, unsung as they are about it, the Yankees are incredibly deft at building a bullpen out of guys who couldn’t hack it as starters). You don’t need a guy to put up K/9 of 10+ (No offense to Kimbrel), you need a guy who simply won’t put too many guys on base and keeps the ball in the park more often than not. You save the guy with the pretty K/9 for the bases loaded with one out, up by one situation whenever it happens.
Not at this point, with the way their relief fell apart last year with Jenks, Wheeler, and Bard in Sept. Ace also had back problem with the Yanks. There are no sure things when it comes to pitching. Something that is sometimes over looked is health. GM’s should try and sign pitcher who have remained healthy for at least 4 years.
“Not at this point, with the way their relief fell apart last year with Jenks, Wheeler, and Bard in Sept.”
Their bullpen problems at the tail end of the season were almost entirely related to overuse based on the problems with the rotation. From June on, we pretty much had two guys who could go 6+ innings any time out and that was it. Bard, Papelbon and even Wheeler were all solid options in the middle of the season until the rotation basically wore them all down from overuse. Morales and Albers also had their moments.
Doubront, Bowden and Morales are all viable options for middle relief (No more of a guarantee than anyone else available for middle relief) provided the back end doesn’t get overused. I’m of the mind that Bard to the rotation isn’t necessarily the best idea as I like him best as relief ace, but if we get a guy like Bailey, K-Rod or Madson to anchor the ninth adequately, our bullpen is fine. The true concern is rotation depth.
“Not at this point, with the way their relief fell apart last year with Jenks, Wheeler, and Bard in Sept.”
Their bullpen problems at the tail end of the season were almost entirely related to overuse based on the problems with the rotation. From June on, we pretty much had two guys who could go 6+ innings any time out and that was it. Bard, Papelbon and even Wheeler were all solid options in the middle of the season until the rotation basically wore them all down from overuse. Morales and Albers also had their moments.
Doubront, Bowden and Morales are all viable options for middle relief (No more of a guarantee than anyone else available for middle relief) provided the back end doesn’t get overused. I’m of the mind that Bard to the rotation isn’t necessarily the best idea as I like him best as relief ace, but if we get a guy like Bailey, K-Rod or Madson to anchor the ninth adequately, our bullpen is fine. The true concern is rotation depth.
See that’s the rip, the Sox let their sure thing go, the rest of the closers are not as good.
They have Bard. They don’t NEED a closer. And they certainly don’t need to give up Middlebrooks for a closer with injury problems who has pitched 49 & 41 innings respectively in the past 2 years.
They just need to stop dealing with Billy Beane who’s always like this.
I prefer Kalish over Reddick. If the A’s could get Kalish & Balcom-Miller that seems like a nice trade for both parties. A’s get CF to build on and a young arm. BOS gets their closer for next 3 years.
When the Rangers inquired on Bailey, the A’s reportedly demanded Martin Perez (a top 20 prospect), Mike Olt (a top 100 prospect), and Leury Garcia (a solid SS prospect with good defense and fast feet). The A’s are not planning to sell Bailey cheap.
That’s why you just don’t deal with Billy Beane.
The Rangers are also in their division. Teams generally charge a premium for in-division moves.
Also, who’s rankings are you operating off of? Perez lists as 24 for the 2011 BA top 100 and Olt seems to have been unranked and Garcia doesn’t even seem to rank as one of the Rangers’ top 25.
All the A’s fans saying you have to give up something to get something, you don’t trade your top prospect who’s at a position that’s very thin with crazy athleticism and great power for a reliever who’s pitched about 50 innings the last two years each.
Who costs basically nothing when your last closer just left for $13MM a year.
When you already have multiple closer candidates on the team
Kalish is a tick better than Reddick but they are virtually the same guys. Trading one of them to get a Closer they need is a good solid baseball move.
Not even close to accurate.
Reddick has much more power potential than Kalish, whereas Kalish has significantly better plate discipline. Reddick has a better arm, but Kalish has better range. Reddick is very much a pull hitter while Kalish tends to hit to all fields. Kalish is also almost a full year younger. Kalish is also a base stealing threat.
All told, the only thing they have in common is that they’re left handed. Given, having both is pointless as we only have a spot for one of them, but they’re vastly different players.
I really don’t understand why they are going after Bailey in he first place? They have a closer. We’ve been hearing for two years now that Bard was the closer in waiting and now he’s not? Why? Because he had a bad September? You’d have a hard time finding anyone on the RedSox that had a September to brag about!
Make Bard the closer. Jenks becomes the set up man and move Aceves into the rotation. They already re-signed Miller. Sign a few more low risk high reward guys like Harden and Bedard. That’s 3 guys that should be able to string together enough decent starts to get them to the trading deadline. Matsuzaka is probably back by the all star break too.
That would take care of the rotation and back end of the bullpen without spending a lot of money because now all of a sudden the RedSox can’t afford anyone who makes more than the league minimum!
Maybe the Sox are going to use Bard at closer with Bailey setting up. Then signing Bedard and have something like Tazwa/Miller/Wake fight it out for the 5 spot.
Lester
Buc
Beckett
Bedard
Tazawa/Miller/Wakefield
Bard
Bailey
Aceves
Jenks
Hill
Albers
??? I kind of hope this is more what they are thinking.
Then maybe let Kalish fight it out for RF, sign Ortiz, and some depth guys and call it an offseason…..OR go above lux tax and grab something extra nice.
last night Cherington said he’s not re-signing Tek or Wake
If thats true it is a good thing. Just insert Weiland or Dubront into the year long competition for 5 with Miller & Tazawa (Hoping). Hopefully Tazawa takes his solid peripherals from last season adds another year removed from TJ and blows doors and takes the 5 spot. I watched every Miller start last year and you can see the Potential, but he will never be able to control that heater at full speed.
“We’ve been hearing for two years now that Bard was the closer in waiting and now he’s not? Why? Because he had a bad September?”
No, because the closer role is about the least valuable place he could be considering his skillset.
The closer role is overrated, despite what Ruben Amaro seems to think. You don’t need a guy who’s going to come out with electric stuff and strike out the side in the ninth. You need a guy who will come in and not walk a batter or two and then give up a home run. That’s all. People seem to forget that the best closer of all time has a K/9 of less than 9 but also doesn’t seem to know how to issue a walk for the most part. A guy who’ll come out there, throw nine pitches and induce a couple ground balls and a pop fly is at least as valuable in the ninth as a guy who will come in and throw 99 and make hitters look foolish.
Where a guy who will come out there and make opposing batters look lost and embarrassed is MOST needed is either the rotation or as a guy who can come in whenever you need him, not just in the ninth when you’re up by 1-3 runs.
Rumor has it Bard may be heading to the rotation, so then Bailey/another CL becomes needed.
I really don’t understand why they are going after Bailey in he first place? They have a closer. We’ve been hearing for two years now that Bard was the closer in waiting and now he’s not? Why? Because he had a bad September? You’d have a hard time finding anyone on the RedSox that had a September to brag about!
Make Bard the closer. Jenks becomes the set up man and move Aceves into the rotation. They already re-signed Miller. Sign a few more low risk high reward guys like Harden and Bedard. That’s 3 guys that should be able to string together enough decent starts to get them to the trading deadline. Matsuzaka is probably back by the all star break too.
That would take care of the rotation and back end of the bullpen without spending a lot of money because now all of a sudden the RedSox can’t afford anyone who makes more than the league minimum!
The most the Yanks will give the A’s for Gio is Betances, Warren, and Nunez.
that’s why the yanks will not get him.
I thought about this long and hard last night. I could see Cashman offering up: Betances, Gardner, Warren and Mason Williams, who is very young, but has a huge ceiling and already speculation from within, that he could be the Yanks best prospect yet. That’s a nice haul. 2 legit arms (one rated in top 50 prospect list) Garnder who is cheap and would be a perfect match, both hitting style and defensively for the A’s and Williams who could be an impact player in 3-4 years. If that doesn’t work, Betances, Gardner, Romine and Williams. 2 top 100 prospects, a cheap, youngish ready to play outfielder who can take any position out there and Williams. Some combination of this would work.
Montero is needed for Gio, the other pieces you can argue about but Jesus Montero is an absolute necessity in a package or else the Yanks are just wasting the A’s time.
The a’s asked for Montero and 2 other top prospects and the yanks turned it down. No way the yanks get him without giving up quality. Other teams are driving up the price so the yanks will need to offer lots more.
“Other teams are driving up the price so the yanks will need to offer lots more.”
Phillies offered Dominic Brown. Yeah, the market is fired up now.
The a’s asked for Montero and 2 other top prospects and the yanks turned it down. No way the yanks get him without giving up quality. Other teams are driving up the price so the yanks will need to offer lots more.
unless they’re giving up gardner. betances, williams, and romine on top is a worthy package for gio
Relief pitchers are like RB’s in football. Only stupid teams spend a premium on ones that aren’t elite. “Obsessions” brought up some great points about Reddick, especially regarding him not being a great fit in Oakland but still, a team offers me a ; young, talented position player for a RP and I rip their hand off I take the offer so quickly.
Good defender, good power. The A’s might not even be in the Coliseum much longer. Reddick for Bailey is a good deal, speaking as a person sympathetic to the A’s rather than Boston, I personally think it’s a good offer… unless they can get Yonder Alonso for Bailey… which I doubt… but hope.
It’s not a “bad” offer, but if I’m Oakland I shoot for Kalish over Reddick. Hits to all fields, draws walks, steals bases from time to time and despite not having Reddick’s power potential, he’s still got some pop. Sure they may not be at the Coliseum much longer, but that’s a team built for years around playing in a big stadium, so any new stadium will likely be big as well.
Given, if you’re content to take Reddick as the centerpiece, I will pack his bags myself, but I think Kalish is the better option for them.
You have two entirely different players with different ceilings in one paragraph. Alonso has a very high ceiling, as a potential star power hitting 1st basemen, Reddick is a 4th outfielder (as stated by other Red Sox fans) at best. He’ll be of great use to the A’s, along with other players in a deal for Bailey, but to think one has anything to do with the other, is just nuts.
No one said he’s a fourth outfielder “at best.” He’s quite probably a fourth outfielder, but he has the projectability to be a starter. His ceiling is power hitting corner outfielder (The dude has a ton of power potential). He currently projects as borderline average major leaguer/fourth outfielder.
A good comparable would be David Murphy with more power, not an elite player, but enough valuable tools to stick as a starter for maybe half of the teams in the MLB. IF he can improve his plate discipline, he could start. He’s a fourth outfielder if he never figures out how to draw walks, but if he does he’s an adequate starter. Heck, strictly speaking, despite my doubts about him, his minor league numbers aren’t so far off from your team’s current right fielder’s were.
David Murphy had one season as good as Reddick’s last year in terms of WAR, but he did it in 200 more PA’s. Reddick is clearly not a 4th outfielder, he was not a 4th outfielder for the best hitting team in the MLB and he was only 24, what leads you to think he is a 4th outfielder for his career.
On the other hand, you’re using a WAR value that’s based entirely on extremely small sample size statistics that are misleading. His WAR is carried heavily by a stellar 8.6 UZR, which is extremely unreliable in as small of a sample size as it was while his offensive numbers are carried by an extremely strong first month. His offensive numbers plummeted after pitchers adjusted to him and the jury’s still out on whether he can adjust back (He improved his BA in September, but his plate discipline took a huge step back in the majors).
As for that last point, you’re making an incredibly misleading argument there. Yes, Reddick was a starter for the best hitting team in the MLB, but he was a starter by virtue of there not being a better option due to injury. Depth-wise, Reddick would probably have been considered the fifth outfielder. The only reason Reddick spent so much time on the big club last year as a starter is because Drew and Kalish were both injured most of the season. There was no other option so implying Reddick was good enough to start for the Red Sox is missing huge facts of the situation. It was basically a choice of Reddick or MacDonald and MacDonald actually did manage to take a lot of at bats away from Reddick.
i meant his wOBA
Reddick was 10th among MLB RF in WAR/PA, ahead of Swisher, Quentin, Cuddyer, Ethier, Bruce, and Heyward. He in fact led all of MLB in WAR/PA for at least a month, before he went into his titanic slump*. That’s some 4th OFer.
*And no, the league didn’t “figure him out,” since it doesn’t take a whole month for teams to get a book on a guy when they have pitch/fx and hit/fx data to look at, and he hit much better starting September 3rd (.296 / .333 / .444 while the team was collapsing). He’s been insanely streaky his whole career.
Reddick was 10th among MLB RF in WAR/PA, ahead of Swisher, Quentin, Cuddyer, Ethier, Bruce, and Heyward. He in fact led all of MLB in WAR/PA for at least a month, before he went into his titanic slump*. That’s some 4th OFer.
*And no, the league didn’t “figure him out,” since it doesn’t take a whole month for teams to get a book on a guy when they have pitch/fx and hit/fx data to look at, and he hit much better starting September 3rd (.296 / .333 / .444 while the team was collapsing). He’s been insanely streaky his whole career.
Reddick is already better than a 4th outfielder. The average 4th outfielder is Roger BErnadina. If you sort all MLB players by WAR and take the top 90, the next 30 are your 4th outfielders. Bernadina had 0.6 WAR, Reddick had 1.9 WAR in 278 PA’s.
I think we trade Reddick. As mush as I loved his performance, he’s replacable. However, not sure about Middlebrooks. Billy Beane has always loved Youk and I’m willing to part with both Reddick and Youk and maybe even a low prospect for Andrew Bailey. A closer is more of a demand to us than a left-handed hitting outfielder right now (we already have too many lefties). If we can just trade Reddick and one other prospect, I’d be happy with that too.
You do realize that Youk is owed $13mm, guaranteed, for only 1 more year, unless his option is picked up for 13, at $13mm. I don’t really see how that helps the A’s. Plus the Sox desperately need Youk at DH or at a minimum, in the Sox line up for his RH bat and ability to get on base.
Red SOx will be playing Youk at 3rd, big Papi looks like he’ll be accepting Arbitration
…and this is where the Red Sox problems pretty much start. If they just do one year via arb, ok, still a massive overpay for Ortiz, but Youk along with his option for 13 would be a much better fit for DH and back/up 1st and 3rd. At least he can play a position whereas Ortiz cannot. I’m not going to get into again, I’ve cooled out on the Ortiz thing at this point, but trading Youk for anyone, really isn’t much of an option. Plus it would be a sell low move for the Sox and frankly, Youk isn’t that bad.
I agree. Offering arbitration for Ortiz what short-sighted. They’re so obsessed with the draft picks (I suppose that’s why the offered it to him because I see no other reason besides to scare off other teams) that they offered a DH who was already making $12.5 million arbitration, which makes no sense because on the market he’s probably worth $7-8 million per year. And now they have to pay him upwards of $14 million for one year to hit, not run out ground/fly balls, be a poor base runner, be slow and whine to the media while Youkilis breaks down at 3rd base & is the only right handed power bat this team has. They let 2004 cloud their judgement all the time.
“And now they have to pay him upwards of $14 million for one year to hit, not run out ground/fly balls, be a poor base runner, be slow and whine to the media…”
Well, first of all, the key pay is “For one year.” This is really that big a deal to you when it’s for ONE YEAR?!
Secondly, $14 million to hit is perfectly reasonable, especially when you hit like Ortiz did last year. Especially for a one year deal. Which again is the key to all of this, it’s for ONE YEAR.
Thirdly, the next three points you mention, “…not run out ground/fly balls, be a poor base runner, be slow…” also describe Adrian Gonzalez perfectly, and hey, almost every other big slugger. I don’t see anyone saying that A-Gon is overpaid because he doesn’t run stuff out. Yes, it’s not good behavior, but you’re acting like it’s a cardinal sin.
Ortiz mashed last year. If he gets close to that production next year, this is a great deal. And if he doesn’t, hey no biggie. He’s GONE next year. Dur.
Ortiz is a DH, which means he isn’t worth $14 million a year. The market tells you that. He’d get much less according to market value.
Second of all, Gonzalez should run out ground balls as well. And he should work harder during the year because it looked like he gained a ton of weight.
“And now they have to pay him upwards of $14 million for one year to hit, not run out ground/fly balls, be a poor base runner, be slow and whine to the media…”
Well, first of all, the key pay is “For one year.” This is really that big a deal to you when it’s for ONE YEAR?!
Secondly, $14 million to hit is perfectly reasonable, especially when you hit like Ortiz did last year. Especially for a one year deal. Which again is the key to all of this, it’s for ONE YEAR.
Thirdly, the next three points you mention, “…not run out ground/fly balls, be a poor base runner, be slow…” also describe Adrian Gonzalez perfectly, and hey, almost every other big slugger. I don’t see anyone saying that A-Gon is overpaid because he doesn’t run stuff out. Yes, it’s not good behavior, but you’re acting like it’s a cardinal sin.
Ortiz mashed last year. If he gets close to that production next year, this is a great deal. And if he doesn’t, hey no biggie. He’s GONE next year. Dur.
While he’s expensive, their lineup is best with Youkilis AND Ortiz in it. IF Youkilis gets hurt again, well, you give Middlebrooks a shot then rather than throwing him right into the fire to start the year. The reasons for offering arbitration are two-fold from there:
1. The aforementioned scaring off of other teams. It’s hard to imagine AA standing still on Ortiz if he doesn’t cost a pick and can be gotten for around 2 years at under $20 million. A 3/4 of Ortiz/Bautista in either order takes a team that’s getting closer to being a contender even closer. Adding Ortiz and a couple bullpen arms could make the Blue Jays a potential challenger for a playoff spot. The last thing the Sox need in an already crowded division is another competitive team.
2. As noted, they’re better with Youk and Ortiz than just Youk. If you take Ortiz out, you’re sacrificing offense at third by likely starting the season with Lowrie which not only is a huge risk considering his history, but also hurts our trade options as Lowrie is reportedly drawing some interest. While our offense will certainly survive without Ortiz, getting him back at too much money is better than losing him and getting nothing in return.
The ideal situation would be him leaving and netting us two picks, but worst case scenario is him going to Toronto, getting us nothing in return and hurting our chances for a playoff spot. Avoiding that worst case scenario is worth overpaying him for one year, even if it may result in us hitting the luxury tax.
People acting like this is going to cripple them are overreacting. Yes, it tightens our budget, but I really don’t imagine that it makes much of a difference due to the overall weak FA market in regards to the Red Sox’ needs. Beltran would be useful, but his injury history scares me on anything more than a two year deal. Buehrle sounds nice, but I’m not prepared to offer him a four year commitment.
Of the three biggest free agents left, two of them are useless to us and the other one is going to command more years than a team with so many long term commitments already should be going for. Everyone else available has one or two big questions surrounding them.
Strictly speaking, there’s simply not enough out there to justify multiple years anyway that Ortiz is going to keep us away from anyone we absolutely SHOULD be getting. Making a move simply for the sake of making a move is foolish and most of the high priced free agents out there would qualify as such for the Red Sox.
You’re seriously selling Youkilis way short. Before he moved to 3rd there was a serious case to be made that he was the best 1B in the game not named Albert. He was the second best hitter in the game from ’08-’10 according to wOBA and 4th best according to wRC+.
“Youk isn’t that bad.“
True, that probably wouldn’t work. Didn’t think that part through. I’m willing to part ways with a deal like Reddick/Bowden or Reddick/Doubront for Bailey (preferably Bowden). I think that could work.
YOU WOULD TRADE YOUKILIS FOR ANDREW BAILEY? ARE YOU INSANE?
I think he’s on the decline to be honest. He’s replacable. If we don’t have to trade him however, then I don’t mind keeping him either. As Century mentioned, it’s likely not possible and now I’m thinking Reddick/Bowden makes more sense.
He’s not replaceable. Right now he’s the only right handed power bat the Red Sox have (as Pedroia is not, nor is Scutaro or Lowrie when he bats right handed).
Do you want Lowrie/Aviles at 3rd? No thank you.
But it’s never going to happen anyway. He’s too expensive for Beane & not what their looking for. Plus I’d want something more in return than an injury prone relief pitcher for Youkilis.
Beane dosent want Youk. He wants young player less than 2 years experience so don’t worry about it.
You didn’t seriously just suggest Youkilis + for Bailey did you? Please tell me you didn’t.
I don’t believe for a second that the Sox offered Reddick even up for Bailey, let alone along with a prospect, since Ben Cherington is not stupid enough to make that offer and Billy Beane is not stupid enough to turn it down. I do believe that Beane would tell Gammons that in an effort to boost Bailey’s price.
Three years of an oft-injured less-than-elite closer simply can’t match the value of 5 years of an average MLB regular position player (and Reddick has a chance to be much better than average). If the Sox valued closers that way … they would have matched the Phillie’s offer for Papelbon.
I didn’t know Bailey was injury prone… his numbers are decent, but now that I know that he might just not be worth it at all.
Reddick doesn’t fit the Boston team right now, it’s a move they can make. First of all they do have Kalish, who won’t start the year but could be starting midseason possibly, depending on how things go. And more importantly, Reddick is yet another LH bat, and isn’t exactly super dependable in the field, so he’s not a great fit in Boston for Right Field. They can move Reddick, and bring in a Josh Willingham or similar. I don’t know that Bailey is the guy they should be targeting, either, but I think them offering Reddick for a closer is not completely insane.
So two low minors pitchers, both of whom are long shots to even develop as starters and a guy who’s bordering on complete bust and will never touch our big league team as even a backup? None of whom rate our top twenty prospects?
To heck with it, have all three of them.
where does Cherington sign the trade?
where does Cherington sign the trade?
Alcantara is good but very far away. I do like Workman, he was one of our only pitchers top put up good stats, I think he can be a decent #3 starter. Anderson is much better than you say, he draws a ton of walks and hits for decent power, he could start at 1B for the A’s, except the A’s have a logjam at 1B with Barton, who put up 5 WAR 2 years ago, Allen and Carter, but Lars could DH, Lars seems like the player Billy Beane would like.
None of the players in the discussion here are guys I’d call awful (Though let’s not kid ourselves, Anderson’s value is in the toilet, his OBP is solid, but his SLG is actually pretty weak for a first baseman, he’s looking like Adam Laroche with less power these days, he’s not a bust yet, but he’s dangerously close), but all of them are expendable.
to bad Josh Willingham was still on the A’s we could throw him in the deal so we could adress our RF problem.
they liked lars before they acquired eleventeen other first basemen last year. that ship has sailed
So Anthony Raunado is not in any of these trade rumors? Wow so the Red Sox wont be trading their top rotation prospect for a closer. Amazing…
Watch this is all to lower Boras’s asking price for Ryan Madson.