The Padres have acquired Carlos Quentin from the White Sox for pitching prospects Simon Castro and Pedro Hernandez, the teams announced. It's the second time Padres GM Josh Byrnes and White Sox GM Kenny Williams have gotten together for a trade involving Quentin; Byrnes was the Diamondbacks GM when the outfielder was traded from Arizona to the ChiSox in 2007.
Quentin, 29, grew up in San Diego and will instantly add some power to the offensively challenged Padres' lineup. The right-hander hitter produced a .254/.340/.499 batting line with 24 homers in 2011, and he's hit .257/.352/.505 with at least 21 homers per year from '08-'11.
During his time in Chicago, the outfielder has battled shoulder, foot, hamstring, and wrist problems, requiring four separate stints on the disabled list. We project him to earn $7.5MM his third time through arbitration in 2012 before becoming a free agent after the season. On the surface, the deal appears to be a cost-cutting measure for the White Sox.
Castro, a 23-year-old right-hander, was ranked as the Padres third best prospect at this time last year by Baseball America but was left off of this year's top ten list. In 2009, Castro was tabbed as the best pitcher in the Padres system after turning in a 3.33 ERA with 10.1 K/9 and 2.4 BB/9 for the club's Single-A affiliate. The 6-foot-5 hurler started off 2011 with Double-A San Antonio before being promoted to Triple-A Tucson. Combined, Castro posted a 5.63 ERA with 7.4 K/9 and 2.7 BB/9 in 2011.
Hernandez, 22, was also left off of Baseball America's top ten list of Padres prospects in 2011. The left-hander worked his way up from Class-A+ Lake Elsinore to San Antonio and finished the year in Tuscon. In total, Hernandez turned in 116 innings of work with a 3.49 ERA, 7.3 K/9 and 1.7 BB/9.
Neither prospect was ranked among the top 25 in San Diego's system by John Sickels of Minor League Ball while Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus had Castro tabbed at No. 20. Goldstein writes that Castro has "gone backwards from [his] big prospect days" and cites the fastball as his only dependable pitch.
The first time Josh Byrnes and Ken Williams hooked up in a trade involving Quentin, the outfielder was sent to the White Sox for first baseman Chris Carter.
Zach Links contributed to this post.
Great move
The Padres finally have an offensive threat in their lineup. Of course he will be walked to get to nobody.
Between him and Alonso along with Orlando Hudson the lineup should be solid. And by solid I mean average but not harmful.
Padre lineup
1. Maybin – CF
2. Headley – 3b
3. Alonzo – LF
4. Quentin – RF
5. Rizzo – 1b
6. Hundley – C
7. Hudson – 2b
8. Bartlett – SS
Alonzo in LF [he played there for Cinci] might be a bit far fetched and Rizzo might not make it out of ST; however, I sure hope the Padres do not trade Rizzo just yet. We can always give Rizzo another shot at 1b and if it does not work out, put Guzman in LF and move Alonzo back to 1b. If both Rizzo and Alonzo have good offensive years then the Padres will have a valuable trade chip for next winter. I still think Blanks will get it together, but a change in home ballparks would do him wonders, I think Venable is in the same boat. How about Blanks and Venable to Tampa for Wade Davis?
Alonso is considered a 1B going forward by the organization, Guzman may be moved to LF however.
Why are you Padres fans putting Alonso in left in Petco….It won’t work out for you. You will quickly learn that if that actually happens. He is a 1st baseman. He may have played some left in Cincy, but he was well below average and terrible in Wrigley. He could get to and track the balls in his limited range, but can’t get the balls you expect most Left Fielders to get to. I understand he lost around 20 pounds, but he would still be a below average left fielder in an average sized ballpark.
They aren’t padre fans Topher. Padre fans know that the front office see’s Alonso strictly as a 1B and put Blanks in LF and hope Guzman can see some time out there
Rizzo will be traded by opening day.
Probably much sooner. I’m hoping Byrnes has something else cooking right now.
and quentin too……this aint nothing but a trade and flip dude….if quentin is on the friars roster opening day i would be a little shocked
Padres fans can only hope, because he is the Anti-Petco player if there ever was one.
i really don’t see where it would make sense for the pads……especially where they could maybe get more than they gave to get him in the first place….there are a couple teams desperate for a right handed bat….
You do know that many teams put terrible defensive players in LF quite regularly, dont you?
alonso couldn’t even play the outfield in tiny cinci, i doubt they’re even considering throwing him out there in spacious petco.
It is not spacious by any means, in fact it looks tiny in comparison to LA, Colorado and Arizona, it is the wind the principal cause there are less homeruns in that park (almost every homerun I’ve seen there have been lines, except for Adrián’s bombs). The park is so close to the sea (not like at SF but still it is close), that wind gusts play tricks with the ball LOL.
And if Quentin can hit well towards LF he can have a good season because that is the most productive outfield in PetCo from what I’ve seen, with not too much homeruns towards RF (Adrián quickly adjusted to it and changed his approach, Tejada couldn’t and tried to hit bombs instead of lines and sucked, same for O-Dog).
And Alonso is a much better fielder than Quentin.
Best triple A line up in MLB!!!
No, that would be the AAAstros.
yeah for 2011 at least …
But in SD the Pads are becoming the KC Athletics on 2011 and beyond … They just don’t get the Yankees castoffs they get all the castoffs …
No, that would be the AAstros…
Say hello to the San Diego PAAAdres.
Best triple a lineup in MLB …
Go ruin another sport, Connie. I hear the Bolts board calling you.
Pay attention and you’ll see me there too … Doing my best to get SD Teams to shell out the coin since they charge major league prices!!!
a) Headley is hardly a 2nd bat, you’ll probably see him more at 3rd or 5th behind Quentin.
b) Rizzo won’t begin the season with the friars, all signs point to him being a trade chip, and even last year Hoyer was reluctant to even talk about his imminent promotion everytime he went on the radio (which Padres’ GM do daily), so I think they will put him at AAA and wait for his value to increase IF he bats again (he could have a bigger value if he hits at MLB but that’s a bigger IF than him having solid stats again at AAA).
c) Alonzo will be the 1B.
d) I think they will trade Hudson, he was not liked a bit in the clubhouse by the front office nor the fans.
Chase Headley is most certainly a number two hole hitter on most clubs.
Headley hit .330 with good power on the road. He is a #3 hitter on most other clubs.
A .465 SLG and .135 ISO aren’t what most look for in a #3 hitter, although the .399 OBP is nice.
The Padres have repeatedly said they view Alonso strictly as a 1B, so there is virtually no chance he will see time in LF. When you couple that with Byrnes & Co’s apparent feeling that Rizzo’s swing will not allow him to hit in the majors, and you have the formula for the Padres trading Rizzo to either the Cubs or Rays before the start of ST. I would be shocked if Rizzo is still in the Padres system when ST opens up.
I don’t think the Padres are done yet. I believe they are sold on Guzman in the everyday lineup, but likely not in the outfield. I also think a move like this probably opens the door for them to trade Headley since he will never have more value than he does now.
My guess is the opening day lineup looks like this:
1. Maybin CF
2. Venable RF (platooning with Denorfia)
3. Alonso 1B
4. Quentin LF
5. Guzman 3B
6. Hudson 2B
7. Hundley C
8. Bartlett SS
I don’t see the Padres trading Venable for a couple reasons. First, they’ll need his speed and defense in RF with Quentin in LF. Second, I don’t think he has much value to teams outside the Padres (at 29 he’s not a prospect anymore). And I still think his speed can help us atop the order, even if he’ll probably never be more than a .250 hitter.
I think there are still several roster moves to come, likely involving Headley, Blanks, and Rizzo. These are educated guesses, but here are some hunches on what those moves will be:
Rizzo to Tampa for Wade Davis (I’ve heard this repeatedly)
Headley to Cubs or Phillies (for prospect package including SP and either middle infield or OF)
Blanks to AL team (Rangers make sense as platoon mate for Moreland)
All I know is, I’m very happy the team is finally committed to bringing in some offense.
Guzman at 3B? Are you insane man? The guy was hard to watch play 1B, I definitely don’t want to see him attempt to play third.
I didn’t say I was comfortable with it, I said I thought the Padres were. Not saying they think he’s a Gold Glover, but 3B is his ‘natural’ position, and I do think the team would be comfortable with him there as a stop gap until one of Darnell, Gyorko, or Forsythe is deemed ‘ready’. But I think this only happens if they find a team willing to give up something of substance for Chase Headley this offseason.
Even with the changes the Padres have made, they still are not contenders. They are very much in transition and based on production and cost, it’s safe to assume Headley does not figure into their longterm plans. Couple that with the feeling many teams appear to have that Chase would be much more productive in another setting, and you have a scenario that might convince the Padres to trade him.
It would not shock me in the least to see Chase traded for help in other areas (SP, OF, 2B, SS). But I don’t think the Padres will trade him to dump him, I think they’ll need a substantive return that helps them now and for the next five years.
Rizzo was the number one ranked 1B prospect in baseball for 2011 and will likely be number one again for 2012.
If Byrnes doesnt think he can hit in ML then he is an idiot. Rizzo is extremely young and had a cup of coffee while being asked to take over for one of the best 1B in Padres history. Give him the shot to hit and he will get it done.
Alonso is no better of a hitting prospect than Rizzo and people anointing him as the starting 1B after his cup of coffee with the Reds is asinine.
Almost as asinine as you calling simon castro ‘lights out’ for the last 2 months last year.
No way do they trade for Quentin so they can deal Headley and move Guzman to 3B. That makes absolute no sense.
I think that Padres could swing a decent deal right now for Rizzo. I just feel like Rizzo’s gonna have a tough time in San Diego and now’s the time to deal him while he still has value. Just a hunch though I guess.
I think it’s safe to say Quentin is never going to amount to what people thought he would now though
If every baseball was hit up the middle this would be an amazing defense..
Quentin is going to play LF for Padres.
well that came out of nowhere
Agreed
I feel I heard this was going to happen a while ago, but of course it may have been one of my crazy dreams.
This deal was rumored for a while.
i dont like this trade
Simon Castro.
Yet another cautionary tale about prospects, especially pitching prospects.
Yet if anyone but Kenny Williams made his trade people would be saying Castro was a great talent that just needed change of scenery
yeah, Castro might turn things around but you don’t trade Quentin to get a refurbished prospect.
Quentin is nothing special, especially at 7 million
Quentin is nothing special at $7 mil but Dunn and Rios are for what they are set to earn in 2012? Obviously more was expected from either so no need to retaliate.
Quentin was second in hrs and OBP last year and he had a .OPS of about .830. Bottom line is they sold low on him regardless of how much you dislike him.
Do you really think Quentin isn’t worth anymore than 2 non top 10 prospects from the Pads system?
I simply can’t imagine the Giants or Braves could not have offered a better value w/o overpaying for him. If Quentin is worth .50 on the $1.00 then the Pads just paid .25 to get him.
With those terrible contracts you mentioned, saving $7M is huge. Whether or not they could’ve gotten more we wil never know, but I highly doubt they took the first and worst offer.
You mean like they did for Swisher? Yeah he’s never sold low on a player before.
As a Braves fan I agree. They easily could have topped that paltry offer and Quentin would have given the Braves what they desperately need, a right handed hitter. Unfortunately, Liberty Media is too cheap to pay the 7.5M he is owed next season.
Quentin played average of just 105 games in field over past 4 seasons.
Had a below average BA in a hitters park (.257 vs .261 for visiting batters).
Had THE very worst UZR, UZR/150 and DRS of any OF in the game over past 3 seasons.
Injury prone, below average hitter for average, streaky, and expensive for a team that has a low payroll. Oh, and he is a FA at end of season.
For Castro, who instantly becomes a to 5 prospect in White Sox system and probable starter in Sox rotation before end of 2012 AND a reliever who likely makes the team out of camp per KW.
Pretty good trade for White Sox. Terrible trade for SD.
I really don’t understand why the Pads want Quentin more because their park will limit him some offensively and he has to play the field. Add to the fact that he is somewhat costly and they aren’t going to contend in 2012.
That being said, you are very optimistic about Castro w/o acknowledging his question marks. To say he’s going to be a top 5 for the Sox doesn’t mean anything without considering other mitigating factors. A) the strength of the Sox system B) the value of Quentin.
I think you’re really overrating Quentin
Valuing him more than two non top 10 prospects in a non top 10 system? Yes.
EDIT: DIDN’T MEAN THE “NON-TOP 10 SYSTEM”
1 -He’s not cheap
2- He can’t stay healthy
3- He is a poor fielder (UZR supposedly they say should not be used on 1 season)
4 – Leaving a team that plays in a hitters park and poor pitching division to a team in a pitchers park that is an excellent pitchers division
5- Padres are in the top 10 farm systems in the league, the White Sox are in the bottom 5.
I expect nothing more than .240/15 homers from Quentin in SD.
Nice of you to point out the negatives but none of the positives.
As for this…”I expect nothing more than .240/15 homers from Quentin in SD”. You are devaluing the return based on the dynamics of SD and Petco. I am saying they could’ve traded him elsewhere where his numbers would be better because it’s not such a pitcher friendly park.
You should never trade an asset with the thoughts of how the acquiring team will do with them. You trade according to what their actual value is.
You don’t trade AJ Burnett according to how much better he would be in a pitcher friendly park. You trade according to what his value is now.
The only positives for him his is power which is very good but will go down in San Diego without question.
Quentin’s power will regress by somewhere around 35%.
That’s the difference between park factors for HR in NL West and those in AL Central.
You keep talking about his value as if it’s supposed to be high. He didn’t have a great year at the plate not bad but not great and he had a serious shoulder injury at the end of the season his value was pretty low
Yeah, I like TCQ, but he’s very frustrating and can’t give you a full season. Solid arm, but zero speed. I project .260/ 20HR though.
KW is really gathering some dicey prospects.
petco isn’t that bad for right handed power hitters. it murders left handed ones, though.
Castro is a top 5 prospect for White Sox as of now.
Valuing him more than two non top 10 prospects in a non top 10 system? Yes.
EDIT: DIDN’T MEAN THE “NON-TOP 10 SYSTEM”
Refurbished? I don’t understand, if he gets refurbished like #1 flops Gavin Floyd and Phil Humber, then what’s the complaint? I suppose things could be worse: you could trot Sweaty Freddie or Bartolo Colon out there as your #3. Or overpay for AJ Burnett while unloading “refurbished prospect’ Ian Kennedy.
White Sox got shafted
um ok, case closed i suppose
Good Move by the Padres still they are going to be terrible next season.
Good move, but if they want to contend, they need pitching.
Padres are nowhere close to contending
I think that was Shawn’s point.
Thank you for stating the obvious.
They play in an awful division, there’s no such thing as “nowhere close to contending” in the NL West. The Diamondbacks are clearly the best team in that division, but they don’t have anything remotely approaching a stranglehold on it.
Thank you. It’s like people already forgot 2010.
This division is like a revolving door I would think the Giants have a good chance of winning this year.
Essentially true, four out of the five teams in that division have made the playoffs over the last five seasons and the Padres have come within a game of making it twice. Sure, they’re a weaker team without Gonzalez, but it’s not that hard to compete in that division.
Essentially true, four out of the five teams in that division have made the playoffs over the last five seasons and the Padres have come within a game of making it twice. Sure, they’re a weaker team without Gonzalez, but it’s not that hard to compete in that division.
Wade Davis for Anthony Rizzo! I’ll go tell Bud so he can put it through.
Counteroffer:
Wade Davis for a bucket of chicken.
Hey now, let’s lay off big Wade. Just has some rough edges to work on….. but yeah, not going to land Rizzo without an upside position guy joining Davis in the offer.
No thanks. The Padres have 4 guys in the upper minors that project to be as good as Davis or better.
If they do trade Rizzo for pitching I hope it’s for a prospect with Ace potential.
They have the deepest stock of pitching in baseball, they lack Aces
I though the Braves did . But I could be wrong .
I think it’s probably D-Bags > Braves > Padres/Rays.
The Padres do have a wealth of pitching talent in the minors, but maybe only Joe Ross has a chance to be an Ace.
Keyvius Sampson has a shot too.
Kenny Williams sucks
Nice Pads.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Well this is an underwhelming return.
for an underwhelming player
So true. Quentin isn’t anything, just a guy.
guy with a .838 OPS last year.
In a hitter friendly park. Who is bad at defense.
.988 OPS last year on the road vs a .688 at home.
It’s the opposite every other year but just to make a point.
He’s a DH playing LF.
Castro can post an era over 4.5 or be lights out from day 1… I am a true fan of his and think a change of scenery can help. I don’t know about the new ballpark helping so much; but I watched him in the Texas League playoffs on their way to the championship and he pitched better then than the beginning of last season. He’s the kind of pitcher that can shut teams completely down.
I think people are low on him because he was the 4th or 5th starter in AA San Antonio at the end of the year (Erlin, Wieland, Kelly), but still he’s a good pitching prospect. He started the future game in 09 and was arguably the pads #1 prospect at the end of that season. True he’s now a fringe top 20 but that speaks volumes of the system and trades more so then Castro losing it.
people are down on him because his secondary stuff significantly regressed and kevin goldstein put it he only has 1 plus pitch now, his slider is no where near as good as it was in 2010.
Castro had a hard time at 22 in AAA in a launching pad in Tucson. He was lights out the last two months of season in San Antonio. His FB was mid 90s, his slider was biting again and his change was decent.
Agree, how suspect are these prospect ratings, that the Yankee fan is babbling about, when a prospect can slip from #1 and starting the future game to 2 yrs later being worthless, especially at a young age?
After doing some research I think it might have been the 2010 Futures game. Something else to think about, Castro got blown up in Tuscon. His over 10 era their is what led to his horrible season. He’s a risk but he’s still very young and has stuff.
I don’t get it. Padres traded away their ace and definitely don’t seem interested in contending next season so why would you send couple of minor leaguers for one year of Quentin. This trade makes no sense for either team. I am sure White Sox could have something better for Carlos.
volquez outpitching latos next year is not that far fetched
It still is pretty far fetched. Nobody in Cincy minds losing Volquez, we were all fed up with him. He was never consistent enough or good enough after his one good year with us. And even if he does do the unlikely and outpitch Latos, you can’t really compare the two. Of course, when going from GABP to Petco your number are going to get much better. If Volquez pitches great, it will likely be because of Petco, which means he still likely would have been a liability to Cincy. I see Volquez having a high 3 to a mid 4 ERA due to the change of scenary, with Latos having a low 3 to mid 3 ERA despite having his home ballpark being GABP (Latos has a better ERA on the road than Petco, which leads to the thought that he isn’t just a product of Petco). Volquez has very good stuff (and so does Latos), but Latos seems to have a better understanding of how to use his stuff at this point in his career.
That sort of depends on what becomes of Mat Latos. He has the makings of becoming baseball’s Ryan Leaf. He has all the talent but his makeup concerns are a matter of record.
So does Volquez. I remember reading an article and it explained how Volquez doesn’t seem to take things as seriously as he should be. He isn’t the brightest crayon in the box. Last year, after a game where he gave up like 5 runs he told the media that the hitters it to pick up his slack basically. I understand Latos has his own maturity issues, but it seems that he has gotten a lot better in interacting with the fans and keeping his cool on the mound starting sometime during 2010. The change of scenary could help both of these guys get their head on straight and understand playing baseball for a living is a privilege.
Its completely far fetched. Latos is a true ace and one of bet pitchers in baseball. Top 10 certainly. Volquez is a number 4-5 on Padres current staff.
Pads rotation after Latos trade:
Stauffer
Volquez
Richard
Luebke
Moseley
Keep in mind that all listed prospects below are viewed better than Richard and Moseley and the two prospects traded. All have a 2012 or 2013 eta so the pads will probably try to move 1 or more of Stauffer, Volquez, Richard, and Moseley at or before the deadline. I think Bass starts as LR unless Richard or Moseley isn’t ready. He was lights out last Sept.
Bass, Erlin, Wieland, Kelly, and Ormas.
No #1’s, but the Padres are stacked with SP. Luebke really impressed me last season and should be even better with his second go around. Moseley would have been dealt last year if not for the shoulder injury, but I would like for the Padres to keep Richard around because he could teach the youngsters a little mound presence.
Put Volquez in the 4 or 5 slot and you are closer to correct.
You said it yourself – they are only getting CQ for one year, so you were not going to give up much for him. A couple prospects in Don Cooper’s hands, to help them “find” their “lost” pitches, and it could be a win-win.
I agree, if someone can turn around Castro its Cooper. Sometimes we right-off prospects too quickly. Still, I think the Sox could have gotten a little more when ST started…
Darren Balsley is every bit as good a pitching coach as Cooper is. I don’t think the Padres totally gave up on Castro, they just have an abundence of SPs. Castro really came on at the end of last year, so him being a decent pitcher for the ChiSox wouldn’t surprise me.
No knock on Baisley intended. World Series rings are highly overrated.
Nice sarcasm. You did mean to put World Series ring right? Unless the White Sox snuck another one in when I wasn’t watching.
Balsley is nowhere near the pitching coach Coop is.
I respectfully disagree. Balsley has done more with nothing than any other pitching coach out there.
Just one example, but Clayton Richard had less BB/9 under Cooper than Balsley. His FIP was about the same, but xFIP nearly half a point lower with Cooper.
You said it yourself – they are only getting CQ for one year, so you were not going to give up much for him. A couple prospects in Don Cooper’s hands, to help them “find” their “lost” pitches, and it could be a win-win.
As a Braves fan smh we could have topped that easily…….
As could my team along with many others. It doesn’t make sense for the Pads or White Sox…White Sox didn’t get much and the Pads don’t seem to be looking to compete in 2012…
They’ll get two picks when he walks and Jaff Decker will be ready.
I’d be interested in finding out if Wren even made an offer . Quentin was one of those linked to the Braves . I’d almost be a little dissapointed to find out that he didn’t considering the Padres got him for basically nothing .
Sadly, he makes too much money for the Braves.
Maybe considering his history of injuries . But he would have still been THAT LF thumper that Wren was looking for and it wouldn’t have taken much to get him . You throw Diaz’s 2M in with a prospect or two (that we don’t need) and then finalize a trade with Jurrjens somewherewith his 5M+ this year and Quentin fits right in with the budget we have .
I don’t really get it either. It seems that the only players that Liberty Media can afford are those making 2M or less.
Maybe considering his history of injuries . But he would have still been THAT LF thumper that Wren was looking for and it wouldn’t have taken much to get him . You throw Diaz’s 2M in with a prospect or two (that we don’t need) and then finalize a trade with Jurrjens somewherewith his 5M+ this year and Quentin fits right in with the budget we have .
I’m confused by the direction the Padres are going in… trade your best young pitcher, but then trade prospects for Quentin.?
Ownership has some money lying around for next season, and want to improve the team on a one-year deal. Castro was one of the top prospects a year or two ago, but has been overshadowed with recent acquisitions and took a big step back developmentally this year (no idea on Hernandez unfortunately, but I assume similar circumstances).
The only drawback I see is the outfield is ridiculously crowded with Blanks/Guzman (possibly) in left and Venable/Denorfia in right, not to mention Kotsay or Hermida (minor league deal I think). Guess more trades might be on the way.
Please just dump Hermida… maybe end the Venable era
Venable is still useful, but I feel like the leash is tightening on him. No idea on Hermida.
and then trade Quintin at the deadline if you’re out of it and get more prospects
one year gets you two non-top ten prospects, what will 2-3 months of same guy gets you?
Beltran netted Wheeler at the deadline. If he’s the best OF on the market, someone will go after him.
Depends on the market at the deadline, but probably about the same if CQ is at all decent. Someone’s going to want an upgrade in LF
The fact that KW sold low on him doesn’t mean that’s the best they could’ve gotten and in no way effects the value of Quentin on a future trade. However, SD does seem like a less likely place for him to build value. Still of he’s OPS around .820’s or better by the deadline they should at least be able to get a prospect who’s value is greater or equal to what they gave up, which is not hard to do since neither prospect was highly regarded as of late.
Qwentin helps their young offense, and he’s from SD. It’s a similar move to signing Harrang last year.
way to spell quentin’s name right
It’s the SD way!
Yea as a braves fan I would have took him for that figured CHW could get more for him than that.
Maybe the Padres trade him to the Braves for one good prospect.
It’s possible but the Padres would need to kick in dollars, unless they are taking back a contract like that of Matt Diaz.
The White Sox really make me wonder sometimes…
Good move for the Padres. They still need more bats though to compete. Maybe they get one by trading Rizzo (or playing him and hoping he breaks out).
How’s the Mark Teahen rental working for you guys?
How is Rios working out for you?
Thats a great movie by the Pads
a movie you say? I bet samuel jackson’s in it. that guy’s in everything.
Love the family guy quote, great response to my typo.
Head scratcher. Money saved is why CWSox shipped Quentin, but the visual return is embarrassing. And the Pads? If they hasn’t dealt Latos they could be in contention in 2012, but… That being said, the haul they got from the Reds was pretty good – for a run in 2014, many DL stints and a new contract (or 2) for Quentin.
They’re setting up for a decade plus run. Smart move by pads looking past 2012 while building a better team.
Steal. Kenny Williams sucks at trades.
Steal for a guy who is on the dl every year, has played his entire career in a weak pitching division with exception of verlander and in a serious hitters park. Moving to a division stocked with great pitching and a pitchers park. I would say an even deal. Two decent prospects not great but not horrible and money saved for the sox possibly to
Make a run at cepedes and the padres get a decent power hitter who when he is one he is unstoppable but is very inconsistent.
And tell me who’s going to man the White Sox outfield in 2012? Do I hear a Cody Ross signing rumour in the works? What free agent OF is Borass representing today?
Quentin gone allows Viciedo to step in, in RF. The current OF is De Aza-Rios-Viciedo
As of right now left field is de aza/ lili bridge. Center is rios an right is vicedio. Watch or them though to trade rios while eating a bunch of money. ( even 2 mill saved a season is a sweet deal for both teams involved in a trade) and make a run at cepedes.
They could make a run at Cepedes, even with Rios on the team. Cepedes will probably make similar money to Quentin, so payroll shouldn’t be changed much. CF job then becomes De Aza/Rios. Lillibridge remains the super-sub at OF/IF positions.
Lillibridge is a fourth outfielder/utility man. Period.
Those 3 may be adequate but are going to be in tough if CWS want to be in the playoff picture in July, nevermind August. Has to something else in KW’s windmill of a mind; that Dunn contract really is an albatross.
It is called a young team – or at least as much as it can be with the big 3 contracts around your neck. But I agree, the only hope for contention this year is if Dunn, Rios, and Peavy all rebound, no matter who else you put around them.
Those 3 may be adequate but are going to be in tough if CWS want to be in the playoff picture in July, nevermind August. Has to something else in KW’s windmill of a mind; that Dunn contract really is an albatross.
It’s going to be De Aza, Rios and Viciedo
I got a feeling Quentin is now heading elsewhere
This was my thought
Not a good trade for the White Sox. Kenny must have gotten some concussions during his playing days.
haha saw this coming as soon as KW said he isn’t making any more trades. Great deal for the Padres. I’ll take Rizzo on the Rays now.
When did Kenny say no more trades? I missed that one. You got a link?
Why would the Friars trade prospects when they are in no way of contending?
Money to burn and prospects that have become redundant. I don’t think Quentin helps the team contend, but he could at least provide some solid production in the outfield. And hey, the organization helps to change the perception among the fans that they’re a penny-pinching AAA club.
Maybe because if he starts the season well they can flip him for a much better haul.
Or, maybe he is on the DL by July, and done for the season. It is a risk for both teams, which is what makes it fair. Now, what philosophy are they going with for the future (esp the Pads) is anyone’s guess.
Because starting next year, the Padres [very deep farm system] will start losing these guys to the rule 5 draft anyway.
Very good point.
Ouch, that’s true.
Fan base, really.
I mean, we can’t really be expected to deal with all these young OF in the outfield the whole time.
That’s all it took? Damn Wren…
Quentin and Rizzo to the Rays for Davis, Cobb and Sale?
Ouch. half of me wants to do it, the other half is slapping me for giving up on Sale so fast.
The same Sale that’s on the White Sox?
No the Sale on TB, from Washington State…
…and go Jays go!
josh sale
There’s more than one? Jeebus i need to update my knowledge of prospects.
The Rays wont want to pay him 7.5 mil.
Try Lee and Cobb.
That would work… Although I think they’ll sour on Beckham before Lee. Excellent SS who can hit are a gold standard of their own in MLB.
That would work… Although I think they’ll sour on Beckham before Lee. Excellent SS who can hit are a gold standard of their own in MLB.
WhiteSox must be clearing room for a big bid on Cespedes; they’ll probably end up with Spillborghs and Thames — Ventura will end up wishing he was punched again by Nolan and erase the memory of 2012…
Here today and be gone tommorrow…they can’t afford 7.5 mil for a player…
Quentin’s hurt all the time and doesn’t have a lot of value, Castro was a top 60 prospect who had a failed year last season. This deal doesn’t really make sense for either team. SD would have been better off just signing someone in Feb, Quentin is no sure bet to outperform Ryan Ludwick, who’s out there as a FA.
20+ HR and 0.450+ slugging in each of the past 4 seasons. Not terrific, but this is the Padres we are talking about. Nobody on the team hit 10HR last year.
Fair or not, Ludwick wore out his welcome in San Diego. I still like the trade for the Padres with what they gave up, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see how Quentin performs with half his games in Petco.
Byrnes had better not trade away all of the outfield depth, because Quentin will be on the DL at least a couple times next year. Not sure I like this deal, I would have rather them just go with the kids.
Agreed, but I like the angle the Padres are trying to work at the very least by acquiring a semi-valuable piece at the ML-level. Dear lord, that outfield is getting crowded though.
I wonder if the Padres could get anything for Blanks at this point? Even though he has had his issues Venables’ skills still play out better at Petco than Blanks’ do. At the very least Venable could be the 4th outfielder who could cover for Maybin in center. I am going to hate to see an outfield of Guzman, Maybin and Quentin playing defense at Petco.
I shudder to think of Guzman in left, unless he has some huge turnaround over the winter. I really thought I had it figured out with Guzman at first, Blanks in LF and Rizzo in AAA, but if the Padres really do wanna roll with Alonso at first, I think Guzman should be their next trade target. I still think Blanks is worth something, and I’d give him a full year to show that to the Padres (I somehow forgot he only played a third of the season at the ML-level).
I agree with keeping Venable, he can be very frustrating, but his defense helps him earn his keep. I see the depth (hopefully!) as: LF – Quentin/Blanks, Guzman, Kotsay (gulp); CF – Maybin, Venable, Denorfia; RF – Venable, Denorfia.
I wonder if the Padres could get anything for Blanks at this point? Even though he has had his issues Venables’ skills still play out better at Petco than Blanks’ do. At the very least Venable could be the 4th outfielder who could cover for Maybin in center. I am going to hate to see an outfield of Guzman, Maybin and Quentin playing defense at Petco.
I guess this is a fair trade. Quentin hasn’t really been the guy we hoped he would be after his 2008 season. Too many injuries. Maybe a change of scenery will help. But I see a definite decrease of power in PETCO.
He always played his hardest. For me, that’s all you could really ask for. Definitely one of my favorite Sox in a while. He was a streaky hitter. He could have been MVP in 2008 had he not broke his wrist. He just needs to stay healthy, and he should be an above-average offensive player. Thanks Carlos.
I assume your a ChiSox fan. How is Quentin in the field and is he a line drive hitter or a fly ball hitter? And please don’t give me UZR and weird stats, I would like your opinion. Thanks
He is nothing special. Decent eye below average range accurate but weak arm average over all maybe slightly below average. Line drive hitter for sure.
Not happy to hear about the defense, but if he can hit them in the gaps at Petco with any regularity, I’ll be happy.
Someone labeled him a headcase. He’s a headcase in the sense that he’s hard on himself, a Paul ONeill like intensity. But he is one of the hardest working guys on the team, a workout fiend, but who keeps to himself. Stanford grab-cerebral.
This is crazy. Half the team in the league should have been there for Quentin if this was the price. Why an NL team would make the best offer is crazy. And why that team would be someone who isnt going to compete with or without Quentin is inexplicable.
I think that the Padres could flip him for more at the deadline. Also they will likely get better return when he becomes a FA.
Crazy!
Type B is gone next year. And nobody will offer him 12 mil for type A
The team is good as is , but still . For what they gave him up for , we could have given them scraps from the farm for him and maybe even Diaz’s 2M to acquire him .
No, Dayan Viciedo is going to man RF and Alejandro De Aza is going to man LF. Viciedo is younger and looks to be better defensively and about the same offensively. White Sox fans have known that this trade was coming since about midseason when we started to see we were out of it.
Of the two pitchers that the White Sox got, Pedro Hernandez has a shot at being a major league starting pitcher; moreover, both of these pitchers would have been ranked in the middle of the White Sox top ten prospects. The Padres were offered Nieman from Tampa several years ago for Castro. The Padre farm system is so loaded with good pitchers that I think if they did not start trading some of them, they would lose them in the rule 5 draft. The only thing I do not like about this trade is that Quentin could be a free agent next year, but he will be a fine addition to the Padre lineup. Now, if Rizzo can figure out MLB pitching, we stick Alonzo in LF and then use Venable, Kotsay, and Guzman coming off of the bench we are good to go. I bet Blanks or Guzman and Rizzo get traded to Tampa for Davis and Lee.
“…we stick Alonzo in LF….”
To that, I laugh. After seeing Alonso fail miserably in his left stint in the small GABP and fail terribly at Wrigley (just go watch the video, please), there is no way that he could ever play left at Petco. It tells you something when he can’t handle left in one the the smallest parks in the league, let alone the biggest. He is a slightly below average to average 1st baseman defensively, and very below average left fielder. This comes from somebody that saw Adam Dunn roam around in left for years. Alonso is Adam Dunn 2.0 in left without the 40 homerun power.
Do you know who Raul Ibanez is?
I can’t see Alonso in LF for the Padres. I would do Rizzo and Guzman for Lee and Davis no problem. By the end of the year Davis’ numbers would look great and you could deal him for more prospects.
Wow, this one came out of nowhere!!! Ok, is this enough to stop people from insisting that Carlos Quentin will be traded to the Braves?
This move makes absolutely no sense. You go out and deal a cheap controllable ace then make moves for a bat? Quentin is injury prone and isn’t exactly gonna benifit from hitting at Petco. Plus…..its not gonna make a difference. They arn’t competing with the Arizona or the Giants with their current team.
It is becoming very obvious that Latos and his attitude had ran its course in San Diego. I heard rumblings of his attitude being an issue last season, but once traded, everyone in San Diego County had a story about him being a jerk. I’m sure some of the stories are being imbelished now that he is gone, but it makes you think.
Everyone is acting like Williams got shafted here. He got two decent young pitchers with good potential for a guy who has not been anything special except for 08. Don’t get me wrong I like Carlos when he is on he can carry a team but he is way to inconsistent. His defense is meh, he does not have an arm and no speed. Plus he is a power hitter who played in of the games best hitters parks in a easy division with exception to verlander. He is now going to the pitchers parks of pitchers parks and into a division who has better over all pitching than the al central. He isn’t going to be as good in petco. Granted these prospects may never pan out but Carlos is a lock for the dl year in and year out and might not hit 20 hrs this upcoming season. I also believe this is a move to free cash for cepedes for Kenny.
It was definitely a salary dump. Yes, it’s an underwhelming return, if you believe Sox were targeting Brandon Beachy for a while, but Quentin is just too injury prone, makes a lot of money, and is blocking Viciedo. The return is nothing special, but this team is not going to compete in 2012, so might as well dump the guys who still have some value with expiring contracts.
Odd trade all around. Surely the WSox could have gotten a better return elsewhere. I liked what they’ve done in resigning Danks, but trading away an inexpensive closer in Santos never made sense given the less than impressive prospect return. And while I think Quentin is overrated (really only had 1 good year) and injury prone, he should have gotten at least 1 higher quality prospect (lets face it, the Padres farm system isn’t that deep, so for neither prospect to crack their top 10…). It’s like Williams is looking for quantity versus quality. Next year’s offense will be brutal (Konerko is going to wish he signed elsewhere).
From the Padres stand point, I respect that they recognized the value of trading 2 mediocre prospects for a “supposed” power hitter/run producer. But it doesn’t make sense to upgrade the offense at the expense of prospects after having trading Latos away. I like what the Padres got from Latos and I’d make that deal again. But they aren’t going to be able to contend for another year or 2, so why make a win now move with Quentin? Sure you could flip him for prospects later, but that is a gamble considering he always gets hurt and rarely has put 2 good half seasons together.
The Padres system is regarded as one of the deepest farms in the game.
If the Pads are done trading than everybody who questions this move is probably correct in doing so, why add CQ to this team? I say the Pads are not close to being done, we will wait and see.
Well from everything we’ve heard Rizzo is defiantely on his way out, so Byrnes isn’t done. Aside form him though no one on the team really has any worth to another team.
When will good athletes realize that going to San Diego is is a career killer. The Padres and the Chargers seem to get in the way of their own success…Give me one good decision either club has made in the last 10 years…Great athletes have gone to San Diego and that was the end of their success.
Trading Peavy, what has he done for the Sox since they got him? At least Richards has pitched a full season since that trade.
The Chargers LOL
Well if Spanos fires Smith and Turner, which he should! Then goes out and hires Jon Gruden and Jack Del Rio as DC. The Chargers will be in good shape!
Now as for the Padres, trading for Carlos Quentin shows that they are still alive. Maybe they will trade for Adam Jones next and we (O’s) get Rizzo and Maybin or something. Of course we’d have to trade some pitching, that we have a lot of, quality is questionable, quantity is not in “Charm City”
Whether they trade for Jones remains to be seen, however at least the Padres are showing a pulse by trading for Carlos Quentin. I thought they were on full rebuild mode before this trade today. Now, maybe they want to do something in 2012
no chance of the o’s getting Maybin.
Don’t get me wrong, I draft San Diego players, football and baseball, and then I am really disappointed that they don’t play to their potential until they go to another team. Think about the Chargers with Brees….and not the whiner at the helm. Think about Gozo as a life time Padre, and build around him.
Hey Eyeore, go to a profootball site and talk Chargers! The Padres in no way shape or form could afford Gonzalez, even with 24 other guys at league minimum.
At what point do you realize that the Pads are a low payrool team, it is the fact. This isn’t a fantasy baseball site, not a football chat site.
Go back and chat on CCNMoneyFeatures or the Bloomberg view some more
OK, I can keep it baseball, who did the pads get for Agone? and how do small mkt teams like Brewers, Tigers, next years Reds, Tampa, keep winning? They get something for their Prospects. they act like they want to win a Pennant, my point is SD fans deserve leadership that takes risks to win…not just 50% attendance.
Errr, three solid prospects from Boston? And how do you define winning? Cincinnati just had a losing season, and how can you predict what the Reds will do next year?
The Padres just got something for their prospects, Carlos Quentin. Leadership has taken risks, that would be the Latos trade.
That is why they had to trade for a bat (though the timing is weird). No FA bat was going to SD. Quentin will get out in ’13 if he can. then again he could end ’12 and start ’13 injured.
Huh, did Simon Castro suddenly become a scrub all of a sudden and are the Pads a player or two away from contending?
No offense, as I see nothing wrong with small market teams trying to improve, but I dont’ get this. Quentin only has one year of control left, and last I heard about Castro, he looked like a VERY good pitching prospect.
Their starting pitching is looking pretty thin right now, not sure why they would make this move after trading Latos…
Castro did not become a scrub, but he struggled with control of his pitches and took a step backwards. With plenty of pitching prospects ahead of him now, the Padres felt comfortable dealing him. The Padres have plenty of depth, for example, Erlin and Wieland (the two pitchers obtained in the Mike Adams trade), should be available for call-ups next year, barring any unforeseen circumstances.
He WAS a very good pitching prospect who had an awful 2011. Make this trade a year ago, and it’s a much different deal. Kenny or Rick Hahn or maybe pitching coach Don Cooper maybe saw something correctable in Castro’s mechanics and can get him back to his 2010 form. It seems to be a control problem, which is the most correctable thing you can change. He seems to have the pitch quality to be a major leaguer.
As a Padre fan I don’t think Castro is doen either. He really turned it on late last season and is poised for a good year next season. I’m not sure about this trade unless Byrnes has another iron in the fire.
They have such a deep minor league system, that they wont even miss these two prospects.
They have such a deep minor league system, that they wont even miss these two prospects.
The Padres have Stauffer, Luebke, Volquez, Richard, Moseley, and Bass competeing for spots in the rotation come the spring with Kelly, Erlin and Wieland waiting in the wings. They have also been in contact with Malholms’ agent, so I don’t think pitching is at all an issue for the Padres. Sure they don’t have a bonafide #1, but #2’s and 3’s play up pretty good in Petco.
I hope this opens the door for the Sox to sign Cespedes! VERY happy with this trade, two young arms for Q, probably weren’t gonna do any better than that. And now we have some salary flexibility.
I get the trade, but I would not hold my breath for Cespedes or any other real help this season. Payroll is now about $106M, and they said they wanted it under $110M. The way I see it, they have one roster spot, hopefully for a back up 3B… should be a lefty… but hopefully born no sooner than 1970.
Great move for Pads, with a few more trades, which is expected, they may be getting closer to respectability. Still a long way away imo.
My theory is that Kenny accidentally hit the “submit trade” button. Quentin is overrated, sure, but he’s surely worth more than these two guys. Wouldn’t surprise me too much if the Pads turned around and dealt him to a team like the braves for a package that doesn’t suck.
Q was only good in that park, with that protection, now he’s in the canyon with who? protecting him?? He is free swinger, which makes him a long out, I predict less than 20 hr’s this season, less than 90 rbi’s….and that if he doesnt get hurt….and good luck with that…I definitely would have kept the prospects
The prospects weren’t part of our long term plans.
Even if he produces 15 homers and 60 RBI’s for the Padres, it’s still wonderful. We didn’t even have a player last year who could pass the 10-HR mark.
So you give up 2 prospects and 8mm a year for 60 RBI’s and 10 HR’s(Maybe) see, this is my point with SanDiego….negotiated mediocrity
You give up two prospects and eight million to gain a valuable piece at the ML-level. You can still move Quentin or trade him at the deadline if he is producing, and you give the fans who believe the team to be AAA-affair something to look forward to next season.
Honestly, this was a bad deal on both sides. I do enjoy the attempts of both sides to try to spin the deal as having been in their favor.
So you give up 2 prospects and 8mm a year for 60 RBI’s and 10 HR’s(Maybe) see, this is my point with SanDiego….negotiated mediocrity
so they traded a guy who can hit 30 homers a year (and has before) for 2 pitching prospects who’ve amounted to absolutely nothing in the minors, 1 of which somehow managed to have over a 10.00 ERA in AAA. great job white sux
so they traded a guy who can hit 30 homers a year (and has before) for 2 pitching prospects who’ve amounted to absolutely nothing in the minors, 1 of which somehow managed to have over a 10.00 ERA in AAA. great job white sux
Traded away a bad defender who does not hit for average, gets injured a lot, will make $8M next year, and will be a Free Agent in 9 months. Yeah, it’s really going to hurt the non-contending 2012 team. #GetAClue
The argument is that they should have gotten more (as Braves fans have been saying the Braves could have made a better offer).
Even waiting until the trade deadline might have yielded more. Assuming he’s not injured by then (which for him is not a safe assumption).
Maybe Wren was only offering salary for salary? Seems Braves are excellent at catching teams at their most desperate (ie Houston, Pitts) but you can’t win that game every time.
True. If the Braves get a better year from Heyward it won’t matter anyway.
We should have gotten more, if there was actually significant interest from other teams. Just because we could have gotten more from the Braves doesn’t mean the Braves were offering anything better. It’s hard to split hairs over a guy that didn’t really have much value, and it’s also hard to get a solid return when everyone knows it’s a salary dump to free up a blocked prospect.
And waiting until the trade deadline would just put Viciedo another season behind, while getting paid like a major leaguer.
The way some of the Braves fans are crying, I assure you he is not as useless as you suspect (has 20+ HR in last 4 seasons). I like playing the value game, so I would have kept him until the market got better (because when they need it, MLB teams will pay dearly for home runs). But giving the young player more playing time works too.
The fact that the padres have a low payroll and a poor team makes this trade seem like a value buy on the Padres part (especially considering the low return). My money says the Padres deal him for something more substancial before the trade deadline.
But you never know. They could lose him to FA and this trade will mean nothing.
I highly doubt Quentin will have more value with 2 months on his contract vs. 6 months, even he is even healthy by that time anyway.
Its not value, its opportunity. The guy is worth more than the two troubled prospects the White Sox acquired. By the deadline somebedy will want a corner outfielder with power and be willing to pay more.
The argument is that they should have gotten more (as Braves fans have been saying the Braves could have made a better offer).
Even waiting until the trade deadline might have yielded more. Assuming he’s not injured by then (which for him is not a safe assumption).
question: would you rather have an outfielder who can have a .260/30/100 line every year (albeit with bad defense) or nothing? because nothing is basically what the white sox got
You aren’t even asking the right question. The question is, would I rather have an outfielder who can have a .260/25/100 every year with bad defense and misses 40 games due to injury or an OF with can have a .280/25/110 and 2 pitching prospects, one of whom was highly touted, AND save $8M. Umm…..I’ll take the second choice…..
well then you can have fun being in the cellar, although the padres will still probably be the worst of the 2 teams, even after this deal
Lol, right, because the difference between Quentin and Viciedo + $8M is going to put us in the cellar. You really have no idea, do you?
Seriously, don’t any of these jokers have a sense of comparative value? You don’t stockpile those stats. This frees up a spot for Viciedo, who should put up better numbers. And I like the idea of picking up someone who was highly touted just two years ago. Like Coop’s track record– Danks, Floyd and Humber for starters.
the white sox won’t be in the cellar, but you would be if you ran a team. it was just a really convoluted way of saying you would make a horrible general manager. the sox could have definitely done better in this deal than getting literally nothing for an above average OF
I’m sure Kenny Williams WOULD doing a better job than some 21-year-old college kid. How is that even an argument?
Also, not only do you need to learn QUITE a bit more about baseball, but you obviously have no grasp for the word “literally”.
Plus, why does a Nationals fan have some irrational hate for the White Sox?
Traded away a bad defender who does not hit for average, gets injured a lot, will make $8M next year, and will be a Free Agent in 9 months. Yeah, it’s really going to hurt the non-contending 2012 team. #GetAClue
Quentin’s biggest asset, and really his ONLY asset, is going to be stifled in Petco. He is a guy built on power hitting. He never had good defense, he never hit for average, he usually misses 40-50 games due to injury, and he is going to make around $8M with 1 year until FA. Not much value there, and even LESS value for the Padres who will lose some of that power.
Quentin is a LF-pull hitter, so he won’t be as stifled in PETCO.
We had a lot of money to play around with, and we finally found our #3/#4 hitter. In addition, we shipped off two pitchers who really weren’t part of out plans. I really think this solves a lot.
Really helps Padres fans cope with the entire year.
Quentin hit a lot of balls to CF too. And Quentin wasn’t a part of our plans either. Viciedo has a good chance to put up similar production as Quentin (when you factor in Quentin is likely to miss 40+ games due to injuries).
Right handed power hitters do fine in PETCO, if you look at Quentin’s spray chart you will see almost everything goes to left. Pads have Maybin in Center who covers an insane amount of ground, so his lack of range will not be that bad……nice pick up for the Pads giving up to pitchers who were not in the long term plans.
Carlos Quentin will probably be Ryan Ludwick v2.0 for the Pads. (Read: a 100 OPS drop.) Not sure why they keep collecting OF and 1B pieces when they really need middle infield help. And if you’re gonna bring in Quentin for 1 year, why trade Latos? Use Quentin to gamble on 2012 and wait to deal Latos if the season goes south.
Its blatently obvious to me that both GMs were deep into their NYC celebrations while making this deal. It doesnt really help either team.
NYE?
Not necessarily….
This might set-up a trade between the Orioles and Padres.
Trading for Quentin will be a waste if they do nothing else.
Trading Adam Jones really wasn’t a possibility until today with the Quentin trade, now there’s hope for all involved
And then trading Adam Jones for Gavin Floyd? A three way trade in effect…
Its blatently obvious to me that both GMs were deep into their NYC celebrations while making this deal. It doesnt really help either team.
If I were Kenny Williams, I’d probably refrain from doing business with the Padres from now on. That’s two strikes. Then again, maybe Carlos will go to San Diego and pull a Jake Peavy.
Yeah, he probably loses sleep over not having Clayton Richard, Aaron Poreda, Dexter Carter, and Adam Russell…….Peavy might have been a straight waiver-claim, because those guys are nothing.
And it was a different regime in San Diego anyway (Hoyer vs. Brynes)
Peavy trade was actually Towers. Also, while Richard hasn’t been great, he has pitched 300 innings over two years, each season at league minimum.
Oh ok, maybe it was Towers, I couldn’t remember.
Eh, it was 2009, easy mistake.
3 different GM’s from 2009-2012? That’s not a good sign. lol.
No kiddin’! I did like Hoyer and what he did with the farm, and I like everything Byrnes has done so far with the exception of the Kotsay signing. Hopefully Byrnes will succeed and be here for the long haul.
Mark Kotsay? *shutters*
Peavy trade was actually Towers. Also, while Richard hasn’t been great, he has pitched 300 innings over two years, each season at league minimum.
And it was a different regime in San Diego anyway (Hoyer vs. Brynes)
Clayton Richard has better numbers and played more games than Peavy.
Look deeper than ERA. Peavy’s peripherals are far superior. His WAR was 2.9 last year to Richard’s 0.3. Richard is example #1 of what pitching in Petco does for you. Look at his impossibly different splits. Home ERA – 2.30. Away ERA – 5.30. That’s a difference of 3 whole runs!!! Clayton Richard is an awful pitcher.
Richard was hurt for most of last year.
Peavy and Richard were BOTH injured last year, and BOTH started 18 games in 2011. Comparison is still very valid.
Yeah but for the money, Jake has been a major bust no matter how you look at it. And I realize it’s an entirely different front office in San Diego, it’s more about the stigma attached to the Padres in general for me. It’s been a domino effect ever since the Peavy move.
Right, which is why I said it was more of a waiver-claim move now. The only reason the Peavy trade sucks is because of his contract and his health, not anything to do with the players we gave up. So the actual TRADE wasn’t bad, just the aftermath of Peavy’s inability to stay healthy.
Yeah I see what you’re saying. But what about the Don Cooper factor? We’ll never know which one of those kids could’ve flourished under his guidance. So no matter what it resembles at this point, it was a trade. And a pretty bad one, considering the outcome so far. None of the pitchers we lost have Jake Peavy talent or even potential, but they also don’t command Jake Peavy money for long reliever/spot starter results. In other words, the Padres got what they paid for and the Sox got, well, what the Padres paid for. Bad move.
We have the Don Cooper effect, but they have the Petco Park effect. Even with the massive help from Petco, Richard only put up a 0.3 WAR, while Peavy, in yet another injured year, put up a 2.9 WAR (same WAR Danks put up in a healthy year). Peavy is dominant when he is healthy.
Extrapolate his numbers to a full 33 game season, and he puts up a 5.3 WAR, which would have given him the 12th best WAR for a pitcher. His 2.9 WAR that he actually DID put up last year, was worth $13M. He got paid $16M. So, really, in an injured year, he was still almost worth his contract.
For sure when Jake is Jake, he is among the best. But we can’t just extrapolate his results into actual success on the mound, so it just hasn’t been worth it thus far. However, I am very optimistic about Peavy this season. If he can’t stay healthy as a starter, I think he would make an excellent closer in the future, even if not for us.
What do you mean Don Cooper effect? Assuming any of the four anonymous pitchers developed, where would they fit into the rotation? Supplant Gavin, Danks or the ascent of Humber and Sale? They were already juggling six starters much of last year. Rather have the potential of Peavy’s upside when healthy then any of the marginal pitchers included in the deal.
Don Cooper is one of, if not the best, pitching coach in baseball, and his specialty is turning around players who couldn’t find success elsewhere. His philosophy is repeating and correcting mechanics. He also loves the cutter (see Buehrle and Danks for example). He does the best with pitchers who have the stuff, but don’t have the control, or “can’t quite put it together”.
Yeah but for the money, Jake has been a major bust no matter how you look at it. And I realize it’s an entirely different front office in San Diego, it’s more about the stigma attached to the Padres in general for me. It’s been a domino effect ever since the Peavy move.
No one can pull a Jake Peavy. Quentin is only making 5.5 million dollars this year. Peavey is making like 17 million. Bad comparison.
Sure they can. See Adam Dunn and Alex Rios, for starters.
Quentin will make more around $7-8M.
Kenny swung and missed due to Peavy’s health, but the idea was to get a #1 type who could go head-to-head with other aces in the playoffs. He can be a bit of a meathead, but I like his confidence if he ever stays healthy. Buerhle was never an ace, durable, but really a middle of the rotation guy.
If I were Kenny Williams, I’d probably refrain from doing business with the Padres from now on. That’s two strikes. Then again, maybe Carlos will go to San Diego and pull a Jake Peavy.
Quentin is injury prone, a bad defensive player and an extremely streaky hitter. He’s also 1 yr from free agency. Viciedo will be the better player going forward. I think this is a pretty good return for the White Sox
Yeah yeah, all the naysayers are right & Kenny Williams is wrong again. Happens everytime he makes a move, or doesn’t. Over the course of his career as GM much more good has happened free agent & trade-wise, and the Sox won a World Series. I think sometimes Kenny overthinks himself, ala, trading for Thome, trading Gio Gonzalez the second time, the Edwin Jackson/Danny Hudson trade, and the Peavy trade sucked for both sides, and of course Dunn. But I see all of these moves as being ones made to put an aging team back on top just one last time, and it flopped. Pretty much every year the White Sox have had a shot, unlike our crosstown pals, the Cubs. Though it has only worked out once, I think making the effort is much better than pretending. I can respect Kenny for that even though it has made for some poor baseball. I love Quentin, my kid is currently running around the house in his Quentin t-shirt, but he’s a dead end. If there was any chance of a guy like Beachy or the like being available for Quentin, then it would’ve been done. I like what the Sox got back, Don Cooper works wonders with these kinds of pitchers. Just watch. I wish Carlos the best, but his bird has flown.
I can most definitely respect what Kenny has brought to the Sox during his tenure. It is not Kenny’s fault that Dunn forgot his bat last season. It’s not Kenny’s fault that Rios seemingly has no heart. It’s not Kenny’s fault that Peavy’s arm essentially fell off his shoulder and who knows if he’ll ever have sustained success again. Each of these players were exciting acquisitions for most fans at the time they took place, and nobody predicts the future. You have to wonder about the Daniel Hudson and Gio Gonzalez moves, and don’t forget about Chris Young. I agree it was best to let Carlos go, and Santos for that matter. But I would’ve liked to see more talent in return, especially for Quentin.
Yep, no ones ever happy. Kenny is a great GM and is better with trading for the younger players anyways and lower salaries.
Yeah Kenny is more dangerous when he’s forced to economize. He’s a failure when he tries to be Theo Epstein and throw other people’s money around.
they are not ranked because padres farm system is stacked
Exactly, where as the Orioles take a rule-5 guy in Faherty and he becomes a top 10 prospect for them, the Padres have legit talent 40-50 players deep.
Castro turning into a dynamic reliever for the Sox is within reason. Hernandez is probably more of a 6th inning guy, but he had a very nice year in 2011.
they are not ranked because padres farm system is stacked
How about this trade:
SD gets:
– Reid Brignac SS/2B
– Wade Davis SP
TB:
– Anthony Rizzo 1B
– Kyle Blanks 1B/OF
Davis would help the Padres’ rotation after trading Latos and LeBlanc while Brignac would get a change of scenery and become the Padres’ top backup to Bartlett and Hudson.
Rizzo could take over at first base for the Rays while Blanks could become the team’s main DH.
I think it makes sense for both teams.
How about this trade… How about No!
You want the Padres compiling stinky shortstops from The Rays?
I don’t see Byrnes making that deal. Rizzo still has a ton of upside and to be honest Blanks would/could be a very good DH, Davis and Brignac don’t have as much upside together as Rizzo does. If the Rays want Rizzo it should cost them Lee or they need to get another team involved IMO.
If you change Brignac for Hak Ju Lee then I think they would talk. Pads have Brignac in Andy Parrino, they need a full-time, long term shortstop.
PetCo is tiny from foul line to foul line, and the gaps are enormous. Also, it’s not the wind that is the problem. It’s the extremely dense coastal air that knocks balls down.
Headley projects better as a #2 hitter for the Padres due to his limited power. He hits line drives all over the field and runs well, attributes you need in a #2 hitter. Hitting him 3rd or 5th is an exercise in frustration because he’s by no means a run producer.
Actually he projects as a number 3 hitter because of his high batting average and good doubles power. And take a look at his numbers with men on base.
.338/ .410/ .500/ .910 is pretty darn good.
It’s a moot point, you can bet Alonso will be hitting 3rd when they break camp. I actually think Headley would be more comfortable hitting 2nd than 3-5 because he seems to press with RISP.
Maybe flip Bartlett & Quentin to the Braves for JJ?
Only if JJ and Rizzo could bring back a haul, which they probably could.
Pads will keep Quentin, hope t hat he posts enough numbers and stays healthy enough to be a Type B (at least) free agent. Braves don’t need Rizzo, Pads need 2b/ss…..doubt Braves are willing to give up Pastornicky.
“Pads need 2b/ss”
So how about Prado+Diaz for Quentin and Bartlett ?
That would be a HORRIBLE trade for the Braves. I would rather give up JJ for Quentin/Bartlett than Prado. With two injury prone players like Quentin and Chipper in the lineup, Prado would be even more valuable.
As a Braves fan I would do that trade.
If Chicago finally admits that they are rebuilding, they need to fire Kenny Williams.
Well, look at the overall value that was determining for this trade. 2 good prospects for a good player (Quentin) who is in his final year of his contract. This is a good deal for the padres if they can lock him up for under 10 million. I think he hits the open market next year though. Not a bad deal for the Sox. Decent!
Package him and Rizzo to SD for young talent. Sweetens the deal a little… I am sure I will be seeing CQ play in the cell this year at some point again.
Huh?????
Oh, oops. I meant to TB* Probably essential to have that reinserted in there.
Per Joe Cowley: KW says they have seen the mechanics on Castro that have hurt him,
identified how to fix him, and will go forward with his development
. . . Also says other doors are now open with the freed up money.
Hearing Rizzo for Davis is imminent, will keep you updated.
Hearing from whom? Quote a source, other than the voice in your head.
Terrible deal for the Padres. They’re going to give up a top prospect, who was the key to the AGon trade, for a #5 starter?
I think Kenny Williams is schizophrenic.
Riiiiight
Quentin just lost $5 in fantasy value.
So as of right now, the White Sox OF is Alejandro De Aza, Alex Rios and Dayan Viciedo, with Brent Lillibridge and (gulp) Adam Dunn as the backups. No help on the way from the farm on that front for a year or two at least. KW either has another deal in the works, or this “we are not rebuilding” stuff is a big smokescreen.
As for SD, with Quentin in LF and Maybin in right, they have a glut of OF (or OF types) for RF: Will Venable, Chris Denorfia, Kyle Blanks and Mark Kotsay. At this point, the Pads need Venable in the leadoff spot, so I see them trading Blanks away to someone who wants to use him as a 1B/DH (his best positions), with Denorfia and Kotsay as the backup OF’s.
Maybin is a CFer……and a very good one. Maybin will lead off, stole 40 bags last year.
I am sure we will see a Jordan Danks appearance at some point this year as well.
What the padre lineup SHOULD be not necessarily gonna happen:
1. CF- Cameron Maybin
2. 3B- Chase Headley
3. LF- Yonder Alonso
4. RF- Carlos Quentin
5. 2B- Jesus Guzman
6. 1B- Anthony Rizzo
7. C- Nick Hundley
8. SS- Jason Bartlett
This gets as many good bats in the lineup as possible. 1-7 could be great!
I know they said Quentin would be in left but he is used to right and isnt as bad as people say fielding. Hudson must go and Guzman must be in the lineup. He has played some 2B, he could work to be passable. Quentin and Headley and Bartlett could go at the deadline, with Gyorko and Cumberland best case replacing in the infield. Still have Blanks on the bench
I am not sure it’s would be “great”, but it’s serviceable……Sounds like no-one wants Hudson….which I understand….as a Pads fan I would be content with this, but doubt it would happen. Hudson will play 2nd, Blanks will be in AAA and Guzman will play all over…..
I think it’s much more likely to be this:
1. Bartlett ss
2. Hudson 2b
3. Maybin cf
4. Quentin rf
5. Alonso 1b
6. Headley 3b
7. Venable lf
8. Hundley c
Guzman will still get plenty of time at first and in left. Denorfia will also get a lot of time off the bench. Rizzo will be traded and Blanks will be at triple-A if he still has options left.
Bartlett doesn’t lead off.
For now, it’s Maybin, until we can find a real lead-off hitter.
1. Maybin2. Hudson/ Bartlett
3. Guzman/ Headley
4. Quentin
5. Alonso
6. Hundley
7. Venable
8. Bartlett/ HudsonBut that’s just my idea.
Headley will hit 3rd or 5th. Alonso will hit 6th. Venable likely will not start. Blanks will probably platoon with Venable and get the lions share of starts.
Lol how is Guzman going to play 2B? He can barely play 1B. Try again.
Quentin has been THE very worst defensive outfielder in baseball over the past 3 years in UZR, UZR/150, DRS and 3 other metrics along with have a bb gun for an arm and slow feet.
How bad are people saying he is if he is worse than that?
This trade does make more sense when you factor in White Sox recently hired Blue Jays Director of Latin American scouting to assist Ken Williams. Ken Williams must have targeted these two players based on his new scouting intel similar in the way he targeted Nestor Molina.
Proven player and white sox got nothing good back. Another questionable move for Kenny Williams. Regardless of rebuild mode or not. He could’ve got something better out for Quentin.
Hey, maybe this opens up Kyle Blanks to be traded? His stock is pretty low right now, but I’d love to see him in Atlanta and San Diego could really use some rotation help(their home/road splits are disturbing.) He’d fit right in to LF and let us UT or trade Prado.
Nonetheless, I’m liking the Pads competitive spirit. Very nice to see a poor team actually making an effort to improve through wise trades instead of giant free agent signings. This lineup does not look nearly as bad as people make it out to.
Potentially it does, although I hope they let him audition for one more season at least. San Diego probably wouldn’t be searching for rotation help, they’d much prefer to bolster the middle infield.
What kind of arm would you suggest for Blanks?
Know Clark/Blanks or Rizzo or Alonso will be Traded.
Who else with the Sox ship out?
OF looks like Rios, De Aza, Viciedo (could be decent if Rios rebounds)
IF is Konerko, Beckham, Alexei, Morel, AJ…also okay.
Could see Beckham being dealt, but if I was KW I would give him another year to see what happenns. I’d like to see Flowers get some more dish time.
DH is Dunn…can’t be any worse, so hopefully he actually trains in the offseason now.
SP: Danks, Floyd, Peavy, Sale, Humber…bleh. I like Danks, Floyd is too random, Peavy is too broken, Humber is fine for a #5, and Sale is unproven.
Bullpen: Closer: Thornton (not again)…or Reed (why not)?, Crain, Ohman, Frasor, Alexrod, Stewart. Not bad, just need someone to close.
So I think this is a .500 team, +/- 8 wins. Lightning in a bottle type season gives them a shot to win the central, but that would require Rios and Dunn to bounce back huge, Beckhams bat to wake up, Viciedo to bring power, Peavy to stay mostly healthy, Sale to flash some brilliance, and the Sox to find a closer.
too many things need to break right for a post-season, and if Tigers land Garza, fuggetaboutit.
I hope KW is very active at the deadline if the Sox aren’t leading the central. Rebuild! Don’t become the Mets!
Its amazes me people keep saying the Sox could of gotten more. So to all the internet GMs, what better package was out there the Sox could of gotten for Carlos? The market for CQ wasnt there. He’s a good player with flaws.
The Sox could have gotten more if they traded him last year before the deadline. You know…when he actually had some value
But that’s why Kenny Williams is Kenny Williams
tell me the package.
Padres have 4-5 guys better and cheaper in their system. (Used to have 6) No thanks.
But wouldnt put it past Byrnes after last trade he made.
Davis is not an ace either. A #4 in Padres staff today.
Have you been to Tucson and watched a game?
Did you see Castro pitch in last two months of 2011?
He was lights out in last two months.
Have you ever been to a game in Tucson?
Did you see Castro play in 2nd half for SA? He was lights out the last two months. Slider was biting and FB was consistently in mid 90s.
As a padre fan, I hate this trade. 2012 is a rebuilding year, let the young guys play, don’t trade them for 1 year deals for Christ sake…
I’m not a padre fan but I think he can help the young players in their development. besides I wish my team the orioles would sign such a player. the only player we have that gets close is endy chavez who is btw so-so
Little Known Fact: Carlos Quentin brings a brick with him every time he steps into the OF. The only way this makes sense is if CQ is dealt w/ Rizzo to acquire more prospects
Little Known Fact: Carlos Quentin brings a brick with him every time he steps into the OF. The only way this makes sense is if CQ is dealt w/ Rizzo to acquire more prospects
Ok, I’ve build a time machine and jumped to the deadline when the padres are in last place and will trade him for propsects.