5:17pm: The Cubs are talking to a number of teams about Garza, but no deal is imminent, tweets Buster Olney of ESPN.com.
3:25pm: The Marlins have serious interest in Cubs pitcher Matt Garza, Major League sources tell Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Marlins' interest was sparked after they failed to land left-hander Gio Gonzalez from the Athletics.
The two sides are not close to a deal and the Cubs continue to speak to other clubs, including the Tigers, according to sources. The Yankees have also expressed interest in Garza, but the asking price for the 28-year-old is a stumbling block for the Bombers. The Red Sox and Blue Jays are also in on the pitcher but talks have slowed with both teams.
Rosenthal writes that the Tigers might have the upper hand if they are willing to include right-hander Jacob Turner in a deal. Rival executives say the Cubs are desperate for young starting pitching. Meanwhile, the Marlins have more position players to offer.
Marlins' Class-A outfielder Christian Yelich is likely on the Cubs' wish list and was among the players the Athletics were targeting in a possible deal for Gonzalez. Rival clubs say Matt Dominguez, Gaby Sanchez, Chris Coghlan, and Jose Ceda are among the other players Miami is willing to part with.
of course they do.
This just in: Marlins interested in Pedro Martinez, Manny Ramirez, Jamie Moyer and Barry Bonds
I’d be happy to have a proven starter like Garza on our staff. It makes us instantly better but not for the price the A’s were asking for with Gio. I would be willing to part with Betances though and a couple of other low-level prospects.
dream on. based on the price so far trading for established starters, Betances + low level prospects does not come close
I honestly don’t think we will ever match up unless the asking price comes down. I’m just thinking about prospects we have that I really wouldn’t mind parting ways with.
fair enough. As long as you’re realistic I don’t mind haha. can’t say I wouldn’t like Garza on the Sox either… just not worth the price I don’t think
If the price comes down, you’ll have alot more teams jumping into the ring.
True, but I don’t think we can compete with what the Tigers could offer since we aren’t willing to part with Batances and Banuelos.
If the Marlins want to compete with the Phillies and Braves (and now the Nationals), they’ll need to step up. They have the prospects to convince the Cubs to make the deal, and Garza is a solid addition to their rotation. If the price is too steep, then enjoy fighting for 3rd in the division.
Every year since 2009 we have been told “good luck fighting for 3rd place”, yet we manage to get it done. So, I’m not going to make predictions, just watch the season and we can talk about it come September :).
He was talking about the Marlins. But you are correct that people seem to doubt the Yankees every year even though they are the best team in their division.
The Rays and Red Sox are still no joke. All three of our teams have our issues and I honestly can see the Blue Jays contending if it all clicks for them.
And my apologies CoachZ, I thought your reply to me was in reference to the Yankees.
Yeah AL East is going to be tuff for Blue Jays if they dont add a starter. Rays rotation is the best if they can muster a couple more hitters.
If the Nats add Prince, that’s the best division in baseball, bar none.
not a chance the AL east is still tougher then the NL east regardless of what any team adds
Really? Five competitive NL teams vs Four competitive teams and the worst AL team means advantage NL East.
I think there’s a decent argument without Prince in the division that the NL East wins, they certainly do pitching wise.
the mets aren’t going to touch competitive with a 40 foot pole. the orioles have every bit as good a shot at winning the division. none shot.
I don’t know which one is better, but that can’t be the best argument….
Did you honestly just say the Mets are competing team
Betances, Warren, and Laird would be a fair deal!
Banuelos, Warren and Laird. I’d think that would get it done. Especially if the Tigers are willing to include Turner. Banuelos matches up better with Turner…
Turner ranks way better than Banielos.
Wow…how interesting. Please bare with me for a second.
Let’s look at the trades that have taken place so far for starters this winter. Gio Gonzalez and Mat Latos.
Let’s agree that in pecking order, in terms of UPSIDE + YEARS OF CONTROL + SALARY it would go: Mat Latos-Gio Gonzalez and Matt Garza. Even though most agree that Garza is more talented than Gio, he has 2 years less of control and while he may not be earning market value he will probably earn at least $18 mil over the next two years.
Therefor, if you weigh ability vs years of control + salary it’s fair to say that the best case scenario, unless a team overpays, should be no more than what the A’s got for Gio.
In that case…
AJ Cole (not ranked yet) is comparable to Dellin Betances (#43 in 2011).
Derek Norris (#72 in 2011) would be comparable in value to maybe a Mason Williams. The C’s we do have are either potentially better prospects (Montero/Sanchez) or maybe not as good (Romine/Murphy).
Brad Peacock (not ranked) would be comparable to Adam Warren (not ranked).
Tom Milone (not ranked) would be comparable to David Phelps (not ranked).
How is “JOhn”‘s posting of Betances plus lower level prospects absurd?
I think by lower level prospects, he interpreted it as garbage guys. I had to read it twice to see that he meant like A ball guys.
I did sort of assume by low-level prospects he was talking more throw-ins than high-ceiling A ball guys. My bad if that was a bad misinterpretation
Because that seems to be short of what they can get. I wouldn’t do that trade if I was them. Everyone in the game is aware that all NY and Boston prospects are overrated for nor reason other than to sell print. His ceiling is not as high as Garza’s and saving some salary for the Cubs is not as important to them as getting better.
Very wrong. Peakcock is much better than Warren who’s projected to be #4/#5. I would even take Peacock/Cole over Banuelos/Betances as they Peacock and Cole are much safer options. Their command is better than 2 B’s. Stuff is on same floor but better frame (Betances is too big while Banuelos is too small) Betances will never survive in AL East with THAT kind of command. He would be walking machine. He is only destined to be reliever at best unless he goes to much weaker division. Whoever believes 24 yrs old pitcher who will likely never improve his command due to size plus mechanism, and with career walk rate at 5.00 per game surviving in AL East using hitter’s heaven Yankee Stadium would be too optimistic in life.
Betances has former RedSox prospect Kelly-like hype which is only allowed in big market prospects but everyone in the game knows his real value despite of overvalued ranking. I can imagine Red Sox’s left heavy lineup along with ability to draw walks would murder Betances for years to come if Yankees holds onto Betances and give him chances to stick in their rotation.
It’s incredible. Who are “everyone in the game”? Are they not the same ppl that create the prospect lists? It’s amazing how you act as if Cashman and the Yankee “propaganda machines” are the ones making up these prospect reports. If you think Calis and Sickles and others can be influenced then that would go for every other organization and we should just stop referring to them all together.
Fans overrate their prospects. I would be shocked if the “experts” are influenced by “major market” teams. Maybe Michael Moore needs to do a documentary about it?
typical Yankees fan overrating your farm. Betances may not even be a starter. Montero, Sanchez and Romine are all sub 50 defensively. Norris is an actual Catcher. Brad Peacock is currently ranked 4th in BA’s eastern league rankings. Ahead of the likes of Jacob Turner and your overrated Yankee farmhands.
I was comparing C. Montero, despite his C abilities is a better overall prospect than Norris. Sanchez at 18 is ranked extremely high as a C prospect. Romines isn’t as good as Norris. Not how any of that was lost.
Peacock is much better than Warren. Peacock & Cole are better duo than Betances & Banuelos. Gio has more years of control but Garza is better pitcher in overall. Theo would hang up in nano second if someone hands him an offer centering around Betances.
3) A.J. Cole, RHP, Grade B+. I really believe in his upside. Needs to build stamina and refine his changeup, but if it comes together he could be a Top 20 pitching prospect next year, perhaps more.
4) Brad Peacock, RHP, Grade B: Borderline B+. Still has some command issues, but his ERAs finally caught up with his components and his overall potential in 2011. Will be ready before Cole but his upside is not quite as high. Future 2/3 starter if all works out.
vs
3) Manny Banuelos, LHP, Grade B: Borderline B+. He got a B last year and I can’t bump his grade up a notch given the command difficulties he had in Double-A. He’s still a fine prospect, however, projecting as a number three starter if all goes well.4) Dellin Betances, RHP, Grade B: Borderline B+. He’s got plenty of stuff but command wobbles prevent the B+ at this time. Ceiling is a tad higher than Banuelos, but I’m less confident that he’ll reach it. Depending on what happens with his command, he could develop into anything from a number two starter to a disappointing mop-up man.
You’re entitled to your opinion but I don’t see those two being an obvious choice over Bans and Bets especially considering how both performed at AA and AAA while Cole has yet to pitch above low A Sally (2 levels away from AAA). This is the 1st year that Peacock has made into the top prospect status so let’s see what he does in 2012 now that he’s on the radar. Keep in mind that Bans is only 1 year older than Cole but has 3 more years experience and will start at AAA next year.
As for Peacock vs Warren you may have a point. I think Warren will be better than the scouts think but that’s not an opinion held by the majority. I think his ceiling is as a #3 but most see him as a #4 tops.
Most people arent exactly high on peacock law called him a strong reliver with back of the rotation potential.
Peacock is most probably a reliver considering he has an average at best change and curvebell and his fastball isnt all that fast. At best he is a back end starter which you just admitted warren is. Not to mention warren has the better control.
Sanchez and montero are both younger than norris and were rated higher than him so i’m not really seeing your arguement. BA may be high on peacock but other scouts such as keith law arent and most people would agree his cieling isnt of a 1 or 2 starter. If it was he probably wouldnt have been traded for a gio gonzalzes which is pretty much his ceiling.
Marlins finally gonna make a move this offseason??
Because they haven’t yet?
don’t listen to cardinals fans, they have been in denial all offseason.
In denial about what? Marlins have been invovled with every FA this offseason.. Just because Pujols did end up in STL or Miami doesnt mean im in denial: just means you have problems sensing sarcasm.
Sarcasm just flies way over you head huh?
Looks like it. It also looks like the Angels are going to sign Albert Pujols at next week’s Winter Meetings.
god told me that
If they offer Dominguez, Sanchez, and Yelich that will get it done. That’s an absolute blow away. Sanchez is a solid proven major leaguer. Dominguez is a 3b that has never shown to put it alltogether but then again he was a very young prospect. Even is a midling 3b has potential to be a starter in the majors. Think about guys like Headley, Stewart, Wiggy etc have carved out a role for years.
Edit. I cant read lol
its the marlins
Huh?
Trade Sanchez, Yelich, and Hope for Garza, and sign Fielder. Marlins are as good as the Phillies.
are you sure? Not with that rotation.
They have the better lineup right now.
Phillies are getting older every year , but still remain better than the fish . I would be more worried about 3rd place and the Nationals if I were the fish .
Johnson, Garza, Beurhle, Sanchez and Nolasco, better 4 and 5. The Marlins would have a better hitting team.
solid
No there not. Phillies will dominate the East again. You’re acting like Reyes is not gonna get hurt at least twice this year. His contract will be a bust within 3 yrs of it.
Assuming this trade happens, just how close is the gap between the AL East and NL East for best division?
Those divisions first need to close the gap with other divisions after failing to advance a team to the World Series the past two years.
That’s a terrible argument. The playoffs are a total crap shoot, judging the best division by who succeeds there is not a valid rationale.
In 2007 and 2009, American League West teams had better cumulative regular-season records than AL East teams (and had a winning record is head-to-head competition against AL East teams), but the Red Sox won the World Series in 2007 and the Yankees in 2009.
By your rationale, the Red Sox and Yankees won the crapshoot in years when the AL West was the superior division.
Sure, that’s perfectly valid, Though you do have to account for inter-division difficulty. I wasn’t implying that the east divisions were/are the best (though I believe they are), I was merely pointing out the flaw in your argument.
The AL West isn’t bad at the top, overall the AL East is the best.
The best teams don’t win the series today, its the team that gets hot. Too many rounds make it more random.
I know Yelich haha he’s a friend of mine from high school he’s got a sweet stroke but from what I remember a corky throwing form.
Why do fanboys of every team think that the other team is willing to give up a valuable player for nothing? If you want Garza, you’re gonna pay a heavy price in prospects. It’s the way the game works.
The only way Theo/Hoyer will trade Garza is getting a “Substantial” return ‘ala Mat Latos/Gio Gonzalez type deal. And right now no team wants to pay that amount for Garza because he has less years left on his contract. But … I could see a multi-player style deal like maybe Garza/C. Coleman for say J. Turner/C. Crosby/ A. Oliver. Now that is a very productive type trade for The Cubbies.
Little info on C. Crosby from the Tigers he is from a town just west of Wrigley. He has some control problems and had a good year coming back from TJ surgery. He’s a strikeout/ground ball type pitcher projected as a number 2-4 rotation type pitcher. I like him!!!
J.Turner well he’ll be a number 1 rotation type all the tools are there.
A. Oliver well another T. Wood type guy who was rushed through the system too fast. ‘nough said there.
Well that is my take on the posible Tiger’s trade talk on Garza.
Marlins WILL have to give up a Starter Prospect for Garza …… ‘nough said there.
Do you Tigers really need Garza? They won their division by 15 games and their top four pitchers (Verlander, Fister, Scherzer & Porcello) are 29 and under. They could try and ease Turner or a stop gap veteran into the #5 spot. Why would they take a chance?
Because adding Garza is pretty much a sure thing, makes their rotation great, insulates them against Fister tailing off (is he gonna go 20-2 next year?), relaxes the competition for Scherzer (who is not a #2) and Porcello who would be better than almost every other #5 in the league. Turner is no future Verlander, and the rest of the prospects all have blemishes (Oliver), or are far away from the Majors (Castellanos). I think what is happening here is the revealation of the offers Hoyer/Epstein were looking to firm up before New Years. Looking at the Marlins now, there really could be a connection, and Ozzie would love Garza.
I’m a Cubbies fan BTW…
And the point in adding Garza to the Tigers is putting them in “SERIOUS” contention for the WS in 2012. Which is where I believe the Tigers are going with this trade.
to Explain:
1. Verlander = outstanding pitcher right now in baseball probably the BEST. (BTW I agree Tuner is no future Verlander. BUT he throw’s a variety of pitches all for strikes with the potential for/as a number 1 starter.)
2. The Tigers match up well to the Cubbies needs right now with a wealth of young “starting” pitching talent. The Cubbies main concern for this off season as stated by Theo himself is starting pitching.
3. Adding Garza puts the Tigers rotation over the top as no fear already stated. But as everyone in baseball already knows you want him you’ll have to pay for him.
As for the Marlins I dont think they hold a real shot in hell at landing Garza. But anything can happen.
Like you i dont really see a fit in Miami for Garza. I think that if he goes it will likely be to the motor city. I think that a package of Turner, Castellanos, one of the Oliver/Smyly/Crosby group and Aaron Westlake for Garza and Darwin Barney.
Garza goes right into the #2 spot behind Verlander and everyone else slides back a spot. Barney fills the hole that Detroit has at 2B.
In return the Cubs get a potential #1 but more likely an excellent #2 in Turner and a #2-3 guy in Oliver/Smyly/Crosby. Along with them they get a long term solution at 3B in a couple yrs. And they would get the kid Westlake. Who may not have a huge ceiling but has a higher floor than some prospects. Hes 23 so he’ll have to move up quick but coming out of Vandy he already had a little extra polish to him. Pretty solid defender. Left handed bat. Pretty good power. Essentially he would be the guy added in for Barney.
This would give the Cubs long term young solutions at both corner IF spots who would arrive in the next year or 2. (possibly 3 in the case of Castellanos) and 2 guys at the front end of the rotation with high ceilings. Put them together with a young FA starter next offseason (Hamels or Cain would be my preference but id take Greinke too) and you have a playoff caliber 1-3 with Cashner still young and with guys like McNutt and Dillon Maples coming in the next couple years.
what do ya think?
Yep. Exactly. But I would like Porcello and Turner insead of Crosby/Oliver/Smyly.
I think that the 3 lefties have a higher upside than Porcello. Plus Porcello is already 2ish yrs into his ML service time. That might make the other 3 more attractive also.
Yep. Exactly. But I would like Porcello and Turner insead of Crosby/Oliver/Smyly.
You won’t get as much for Garza for the simple reason less control, and many times more expensive. However a Turner centered deal is reasonable. Maybe Oliver OR Crosby, not both. Though I’m not familiar with Coleman. I’d want Smyly over Crosby or Oliver. All four got good stuff.
They see trades in the NBA and think that it could happen to the MLB.
lol “Buttermore.” that’s an awesome name
I lol’d
Yours is making me thirsty . Happy New Years everybody!!!
30 minutes later: “Cubs asked for Stanton. Marlins laughed.”
was that with a straight face or a snicker??
A bit of both. If the A’s asked for Stanton for their fringe #2 pitcher, then you have to figure the Cubs will for their solid #2 pitcher.
i would like to see anyone argue that….but there will be “that guy”
Didn’t the White Sox want Stanton for Ozzie???
Gio, because of age, potential, and years of control is more valuable than Garza. Period. So this “fringe” vs “solid” #2 is a poor choice of words.
Not really. It’s bang on
bang on? never heard that one before.
notsureifsrs
Thanks for stating the obvious about team controlling years. Too bad i’m clearly referring to talent alone.
I’d do Garza for Stanton straight up.
However, I feel like that only happens in a video game.
“Cubs asked for Stanton. Jesus wept.”
Montero? Well yes, he would be traded, he’s not as good as Stanton
who isnt interested in garza, he’ll work well with any team.only thing i hate about him is he is to emotional on the mound.
and he spits alot.
haha yeah,the spitting is a deal breaker.
And that atrocious goatee.
Why care about another man’s facial hair?
His nickname is Spit Take for a reason.
If the Fish do move Gabby, does Morison shift to first, or could we see them make a play on Fielder?
Fielder? Fielding?
Wow! That’s a very interesting thought. I wouldn’t put it by them…plus adding Fielder may make it easier for them to deal Ramierez, and they could re-coupe any prospects they give up for Garza and then some. The whole thing makes a lot of sense, especially when you consider Fielder may end up with the Nationals, which would really hurt the Marlins chances.
or move morrison to first and coughlan in right or try to go after a cody ross or a seth smith maybe
Stanton is in right.
Probably Lomo at first. The Marlins insist that they have no interest in Fielder for some reason, and acquiring Garza and his ~$10 MM salary makes it all the more improbable.
Morrison to 1B. He needs to get out of the outfield.
If I had a fart for every time this rumors I would fart the equal amount of words to write this farts.
pure…genious
Johnson, Garza, Buerhle, Sanchez, Nolasco, not a bad rotation! Trade Yelich, Sanchez, and Hope and sign Fielder. The Marlins are contenders.
*could be
If Bud gets his way and there’s another WC this year, they ARE contenders.
THANKS
If there is another WC this year , not saying the fish don’t have at least a shot , but the Nats , Rockies at this point might be better favorites to take that WC spot along with the Braves who will probably take the other .
Morrison can handle first, offensively also. I think his comfort level at the position can only help his overall game as well. And nullifying his horrid outfield defense can’t hurt the Feesh!
Dominguez cannot hit, sounds like Gary Scott, no thanks. Paying for Jose Ceda would hurt, since the Cubs gave him away years ago.
Jacob Turner for Garza would be great.
I really like Christian Yelich.
I don’t really have much else to say, but if the Cubs can get Yelich in a Garza deal that would be a very good start.
See, Yellich et al. would’ve been good for Gio, but Beane wanted frickin’ Stanton or Morrison.
shame they have no pitching prospects worthwhile
Marlins sign Prince to a 7 year 158M deal. 25M the first 3 years, with an opt-out after 3 season. No NTC. Prince opts out, gets a 5 year 125M deal somewhere else. Thus making his contract total 8 years 200M 🙂
NTC ? If the Marlins wouldn’t do it for Pujos they are not gonna do it for Fielder either .
The Cubs need to get at least one sure thing front of the rotation young starter and one solid young position player OR one front line impact offensive player and a sure thing middle of the rotation starter for Garza plus at least two other solid prospects…not Baseball America top 100 but solid guys who have a chance to help in the next 2 years. if they get that offer, Garza is gone. If not, they will flip him at the deadline when someone is desperate and WILL meet the demand.
Hope it gets done. Gaby is a good trade chip, as well as Yellich and Dominguez. That would free up Lomo to first, and make room for Cespedes in left.
Who plays 3B if they trade Dom? I know Hanley to start but what about when he becomes such a disruption in the clubhouse they have to deal him away….he’s already on thin ice…are they “hoping” Ozzie will be able to keep him in line?
It seems to me that the front office will put up with Hanley no matter what.
Can give the 3B Prospect,Hayes,Skipworth,Ceda,Cousins,Petersen for him/Soto/Byrd.
Sean West,Hand,Sanbia,Graham Johnson and so on.
Cubs do not need a 2B/CF.
The Marlins are seriously interested in someone you say?
Well, Braves are kinda interested in Seth Smith sometimes. So take that.
Cubbies are gonna ask waaayy too much for this kid.
“Marlins have serious interest in” ___________
…everyone.
Marlins already have no farm as Stanton and Lomo are up… Yellich and Dominguez would surely be included in the deal. With the new CBA its going to be tough to rebuild that.
The Marlins have never been aggressive spenders before so it really won’t matter to them at all. If anything it might help because now, some of the “tough signs” that had leverage will be drafted in the earlier rounds now. It will really boil down to how good your scouts are after the first 15 players are off the board.
Now could be the time for the Marlins to take back (their erstwhile World Series hero) Josh Beckett for a good young outfielder and a young pitcher.
If they want to fill the park, a little nostalgia wouldn’t hurt. Sox know Beckett is going to be a pain, and he has a contract Marlins could live with. And maybe Marlins fans would like him more than we do.
What would it take for him and Jacoby?
Jacoby alone is worth two or three top prospects after his recent season, then you add in a solid 2 and you’re talking 2-3 top prospects with 1 or 2 more good ones (or maybe Morrison).
If the Cubs are going to deal with the Marlins, they need to recall the past 2 trades these two clubs have made.
Ceda for Gregg was a win for Florida, and Pierre for Nolasco/Mitre/Pinto was obviously a win for Florida.
To be honest, I like Dominguez, but the prospects don’t match up the need for Chicago. Even if Florida guts their system, it isn’t nearly as strong as it has been- Being the reason they’re suddenly eager to talk about dealing prospects.
Focus on the Tigers, try and re-instigate talk with the Jays and the Yankees.
The Cubs don’t want very much for Garza, or so it seems. Gaby Sanchez is average at best. Coglan? Dominguez? Why would they want any of them. They gave up 5 players all but 4 played for the Rays 25 man roster, one of which made the 3 best plays alone in a 5 game span last year and the player who came with Garza was fired almost right off the bat. If the Cubs trade Garza they need at least 4 players and of those 4 at least 2 need to be on the 25 man roster and possibly starting the other 2 need to be in the top 15 of that teams prospects. And make the ML within 3 yrs.
With all that said the Cubs are better off keeping Garza til the deadline and possibly getting even more. They will be out of contention again in May.
As long as they don’t get any outfielder they will be fine. The Cubs are done before the season starts and they won’t win til Soriano is off the team.
Garza. Soto and DeWitt for Hanley Ramirez, 1 top prospect (who can make the 25 man roster out of ST. It’s a win win for both teams, Garza goes to a potenital contending team, Soto is finanlly gone and DeWitt who will never be good is gone. The Cubs get a great defensive SS and move Castro to 2nd and Barney to 3rd and put Ian Stewert in LF, they relesae Soriano from his contract and he’s never heard from again.
I know that’s just an insane thought.
I agree the Cubs are better off waiting til the deadline to deal Garza, unless some team makes an absolutely one-sided offer favoring the Cubs…like the one you mentioned CP3LA.
I agree the Cubs are better off waiting til the deadline to deal Garza, unless some team makes an absolutely one-sided offer favoring the Cubs…like the one you mentioned CP3LA.
Now I know it’s a long shot but the Cubs need a 3rd baseman to replace Ramirez… How awesome would it be if they traded Matt Garza for Hanley Ramirez?! Like a Cubs fan would say “It could happen”