3:37pm: The Red Sox offered Ortiz a two-year deal worth $18MM, tweets Joe McDonald of ESPNBoston, but he seeks $7MM more. He's undecided on whether to accept arbitration tomorrow.
2:46pm: The draft pick cost associated with signing free agent designated hitter David Ortiz killed his market, tweets Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe. The Blue Jays and Mariners are seen as unlikely, so Big Papi might have to reconsider Boston's reported two-year offer or else accept arbitration tomorrow night.
It’s kind of a travesty that this system allows for somebody with practically zero market value to make 7 million dollars.
Umm, arbitration is for a year at a time. That’s one year at 14MM.
*stands back as YuppieScum starts popping veins*
When he’s on, he’s great, but it’s such a crapshoot especially when you have some kids like Reddick and Lavarnway that I think are poised to contribute.
Lavarnway yes, Reddick no.
Yeah, you have it backwards. It’s a travesty that a guy like David Ortiz’s market value is so low. Thank god the CBA did away with it.
Boston is so screwed with this situation. I’m convinced that Abraham read my comments on here last night and now says this. It’s a shame, I saw this coming a mile away one month ago. I actually kind of feel bad for the Sox fans. This isn’t their doing nor have they voiced any desire to have him back at this cost. My question is; was he offered arb prior to Theo leaving or was this a Cherington/Lucchino move?
Ya they are really screwed. Looks like they will have to suffer with his 30 homers and 90 RBI’s in the 5th spot again.
Yeah, because that’s such a sure thing, considering his three years prior were nothing like that. But I understand you want to argue, just to argue, so please, go right ahead.
It’s pretty easy to argue since he was still pretty darn good in 2010. Free of injury Ortiz has been putting up excellent numbers consistently.
Your initial post is a massive overreaction. If he accepts arbitration, whatever. It’s a one-year deal, nobody is going to have a heart attack.
Even if his numbers regress and fall somewhere between 2011 and 2010, he’ll pretty easily be worth $14M over one year.
The DH spot can wait one more year, and the hell if I want Beltran at what he’s going to cost. Ortiz @ 1 year > Beltran @ 3-4 years.
This.
Not only that, he’s been the best clutch hitter the Sox have ever had. Unbelievable hits. The man is a legend and deserves another year or two, especially after what he did last year.
Exactly. Hey it could be worse. Look what the Yanks have at 3rd base.
Yeah, someone who can actually play the position competently. Boston doesn’t seem to have anyone like that on their team.
What gives you the right?
Yea, an immortal!
David Ortiz hasn’t been clutch since ’06/’07. You don’t pay someone because of what they did YEARS ago. He doesn’t deserve anything. He was paid for what he did & they picked up his last option because of what he did. Nor does he owe the Red Sox anything.
Ever? Are you sure about that? I’m not trying to shoot you down, I honestly don’t know the history of the Sox well enough to formulate an opposing view. All I can say is he is not a better hitter than Ted Williams, Carl Yastrzemski, Jimmie Foxx, Jim Rice or Wade Boggs. Whether he is a better “clutch” hitter, who can say. Those are just the best Sox I can remember. Carlton Fisk was pretty clutch, though not an amazing hitter. Just sayin’.
Beltran 2-3 years > Ortiz at 2-3. Ortiz at 1 year > Beltran at 2-3.
Anyone who thinks a 1 year deal for Ortiz is bad for the Red Sox (especially a Yankees fan who has like 267 DH’s on their roster), drinks their own pee.
Stop being so ambitiously stupid.
He’s hit 28, 32, and 29 homers the last three seasons with 99, 102, and 96 RBIs. Now HR’s and RBI’s in a vacuum don’t tell you that much, but you claim his last three years were nothing like that, and again, you are just wrong. He wasn’t nearly as productive all around in 2009 & 2010, but that wasn’t what he said. You can find stats in under 3 seconds, it isn’t that hard.
The past 4 years Mark Reynolds has hit 28, 44, 32, & 37 home runs as well as having 97, 102, 85 & 86 RBIs (in an Orioles line up, which is more impressive since the Red Sox stress OBP & the Orioles don’t, although I hate the RBI stat). Do you want him on your team?
Nice. His glove plays like a DH also.
We should try and remember these same ortiz ‘rah, rah” posters right now and see how many continue that same cheerleading for him when come June, he is back at his 2009-10 performances after doing his best to get that contract he wanted and failing.
And having a guy awarded something in the $14.5-$16.5 range for a spot that really should be filled by other players current under contract really isn’t the prudent move for the Sox. Plus the enormous savings could be allocated to both a pitcher and part of Beltran’s offer, which as other Sox fans stated and I agree, should be their target.
Yeah, in fact we could save a ton of money if we filled all of our roster spots and then we could see if Lackey has any brothers or sisters that aren’t signed.Sheeesh. Ortiz has been the best DH for years and years and he had a great season last year. We should get rid of him!
You don’t pay someone for what they did last year (or 7 years ago). You pay them for what they’re going to next year & you pay them what the market says.
If you don’t use previous years as a guide for how a player is expected to produce, what do you use? Ortiz is projected to have another good year next year. The market says that you offer him arbitration so that you can go year to year with him so that when he finally runs out of gas and his bat slows down you can let him walk without having to eat a lot of salary. Pay the man.
Come back home Papi!
Perfect example of why you are biased. I think Ortiz will be overpaid with the arbitration award, but “screwed”? He’s still going to be as productive or more productive than any DH in baseball, won’t require a multiyear commitment, and can be worth more than this if he replicates his numbers from last season. So yeah, they could’ve got him for less, but if he didn’t get the arbitration offer he would’ve got a better offer from someon else. Your team has terrible value contracts to guys like A-Rod, Jeter, Soriano, etc. and I wouldn’t say the Yankees are screwed, just that they overpaid and got poor value. You lose all objectivity when talking about the Red Sox, and everyone sees it except you.
Acknowledging your denial is the first step to recovery. You’re making this a personal thing. I’m making it a business thing, you clown.
A business thing? Sounds like you have a lucrative career on internet message boards. You continue to be a joke and never counter any real arguments. Please remind me of the value of the Jeter, Soriano, and A-Rod deals, and then explain how they are not “screwed”, but the Red Sox overpaying Ortiz by a few million for ONE YEAR is a franchise crippling move. The fact is I agree with the larger point, I think the Red Sox made a poor value move…however it isn’t a big deal to a team like the Red Sox. You need help.
The reason I get so heated with some of these discussions is because some of you can’t concede a poor move was made, until much later in the discussion. That’s all I ask. If you had initially said “The fact is I agree with the larger point, I think the Red Sox made a poor value move…” that would have been great instead of attacking someones character first and then trying to defend your teams move as if it’s no big deal, because it really is. Anytime you go to any post in the Yankees and someone makes similar statements, I generally agree that it was a good or bad move on Yankees part. If they make a bad move, I’m first on line to admit that and discuss why and what could have been done better. You however, have no interest in doing that. Just beat the same “red sox bias’ drum.
Except you’re being a huge hypocrite, because you didn’t say things like “the Red Sox made a poor value move,” you said things like “the Red Sox are so screwed” and “I feel bad for Red Sox fans.”
The Red Sox aren’t screwed. Is it possible that allocating funds in another player would be more valuable? Sure. But Ortiz is still very likely to be a valuable player and it’s on a short-term contract.
If you want people to make reasonable posts instead of reactionary ones, try toning down your own first.
Exactly. My only beef was how over the top it was. I’d say the same thing to Red Sox fans if they claimed Jeter’s deal would cripple the Yankees franchise for a decade. I tend to take issue with irrational comments with no basis in reality. I mean I agreed with his larger point, he responds by calling me a clown, and says I’m making it personal? I think it’s funny arguing with people who have absurd opinions, that’s the only reason I’m here.
What are you talking about? I “conceded” this was poor value in the second sentence of my first comment to you. Read it again, I’m not sure how much sooner I can write that, you seemingly just have poor reading comprehension. I just said you are overreacting based on your absolute hatred for all things Red Sox, like you do with nearly every Red Sox related article. How is this not an accurate description? I didn’t attack your “character”, I don’t know you, I just attack your baseball credibility on anything Red Sox related. The fact that I still call you out when we agree on something shouldn’t matter, you are playing up the effect of Ortiz getting overpaid. For example, when I saw the Jeter deal last year, I knew it was poor value. But I also knew the Yankees could withstand the financial lost quite easily, much like the Red Sox can do with Ortiz. And look, you get called out by a lot more people than me, so if you think it’s just me you are delusional. You claim I’m biased, even though I said this is a poor value and I disagree with how the team handled it? Think about it…
“you clown”
Ahahahaha
Jeeez. Simmer down fellas. Ortiz is a great hitter. Period. All baseball players are overpaid. No question.
Evan Longoria strongly disagrees with that statement.
The only one’s that aren’t over paid have bad agents.
Solid response. Keep thinking the Sox are screwed with Ortiz in the lineup. Makes you sound very intelligent.
Of course its a slow market for David Ortiz, the Marlins dont need a DH.
Why would you want a one dimensional player who’s only going to occupy bench space and a valuable DH spot while providing no other value. I don’t care if he had the best DH numbers last year, he’s getting old, he’s fat, he doesn’t run stuff out, he’s the very definition of what’s wrong with the DH.
My thoughts exactly. Giving this guy anything more than a 1 yr contract is a mistake
The mistake started when they offered him arbitration. Granted more teams would likely be interested if they hadn’t, but I still don’t believe anyone would ear-mark more than $5mm-$6mm for him. Maybe the Jays at that point with no draft pick loss, maybe the O’s or Mariners. That’s pretty much it. From the Red Sox perspective, not sure what they were looking at on their end in their valuation of the guy. They forced their own hand by offering him arbitration.
So do they now have to guarantee him $12M dollars? If that’s the case, he makes out like a bandit.
If he accepts arbitration, he’ll make around $14-16 million next year.
Maybe because he’s one hell of a hitter and that’s all DH’s do?
Why wouldn’t the Yankees jump in on this? At least to raise the price for the Sox?
Because they have about 5 DH’s already?
It’s all about the draft picks.
Because absolute best case scenario for the Red Sox would be him declining arbitration. If he declines, we get to basically name our price. If the Yankees get involved, he declines arbitration.
Hard to see the NYY getting involved with ortiz, thereby helping Boston out here. it’s pretty evident from what their needs are that they would prefer to redirect that $$$ elsewhere.
Time to walk the walk, David. My unsolicited advise is you take the 2-yr deal offered by Cherington, get in shape before spring training, and pound the seams off of 30 to 40 homerun balls during the 2012 & 2013 seasons. BTW, Gonzo could use some backup at 1st base.
Only if the 2-year deal is at least $12.5M each year. Otherwise, go to arbitration and make upwards of $15M and put Boston in the same situation next year.
It’s a no brainer, he goes to arbitration.
Actually, the same situation can’t exist next year. The new rules indicate that the Sox only need to offer him $12.4 million to get draft pick compensation. Still an overpay, but also a paycut.
That’s true, but it doesn’t change the point. Get $14M in arbitration this year, and get a much better market next year, probably including that $12.4M offer from the Sox. So a total of $26.4M. No wonder Ortiz wants $25M, he’s offering the Sox a slight discount. I’m betting if the Sox up their offer to around $22.5M he accepts. Let’s see if Cherington is as penny-wise/pound-foolish as his predecessor.
I expect the Sox are operating with him under a take it or leave it of:
You can have your big bucks on a one year or something very team friendly for two. I sincerely doubt they up their offer to anything more than two years, $20MM total. If he accepts arbitration, we’ll do it again next year unless he bombs.
Seriously, is anyone other than Ortiz surprised by this?
Ortiz is a good fit for an AL team with a win now mentality. For all the other teams, giving up a first round pick is too steep a price to ask.
Jermaine Dye…paging Jermaine Dye…
Hopefully this will at least get Lavarnway the backup catcher job out of ST.
I def want Ortiz back. Last year he looked great from start to finish and he was showing control of the strike zone that he had slacked on in years past. Hopefully we just give him two years and he takes it. Because if he hits the same the next two years I don’t see why he wouldn’t get signed for that last year he wants, and he has to know that. This is a situation where I understand that he could regress ect. but with the depth of quality DH candidates we got I would like to see this happen. Worst case its money gone and a time split with Lavarnway. We can always seem to waste money on a Lackey or a Jenks, the Sox got plenty of money. Lets risk it on one of our own for a change. This guy did a lot for us (At a severe discount), lets send one of our own off correct for once.
The worst case scenario is the Red Sox can’t add any FA starting pitching because of this deal. This is also a very real possibility, and them wasting money on Lackey doesn’t justify wasting money on Ortiz…in fact it makes the argument weaker. The Red Sox would still have a top 3 offense without Ortiz. The best case scenario would be letting Ortiz go, getting 2 picks, and having Lavarnway replace most of his production AND using the money to sign a FA SP to fill a need.
Wat about minnesota
Wat about minnesota
Ok first off a 2M a year raise for a player over two years isn’t going to hurt our club. Secondly JD has come off the books. Thirdly Papelbon and his expected 12M is off the books. Lastly we are the Red Sox, like the Yankees one player WILL NEVER EVER EVER EVER stop us from signing what we want. We can have CJ, or Oswalt or Yu + Ortiz + bullpen & Depth signings if the club so chooses. Payroll has not been lowered or given a ceiling.
Gonzalez is making much more money this year, that eats up Drew’s money. Ellsbury and other arbitration awards will eat up a lot more money. The Red Sox probably have between $25-$35m to spend on AAV under the lux tax not including Ortiz. If they give about half of that Ortiz, all those starters can be ruled out under the budget. They could always spend way above the lux tax, but all reports suggest otherwise. It could be posturing, but either way this team needs to be smart about money and Ortiz is more of a luxury at this point. This lineup would still be better than any besides NY and Texas without Ortiz in it, unless serious injuries or Crawford like drop offs to multiple players happened. I would’ve been happy to let him walk, take the picks, and load up on pitching.
We can still exceed luxury tax so its not a matter of if they can or can’t add pitching its if they will. I am going to guess that unless its Yu they are going over for, they will fill pitching through trade. I don’t see a ton of power in this lineup without Ortiz. Youk is always a health question mark, Crawford is a question until he proves otherwise, and I don’t expect Ells to repeat 30 HR. Those are legitimate questions for our offense. I don’t think it can hurt to bring back a guy who has been one of your most consistent hitters the past two seasons. Especially with questions like the ones we got.
exactly, i read an article the other day that said that the Sox were about $8 million away from luxury tax, if you’re going to pay luxury tax, would you want to be a penny over the tax or $20 million over the tax knowing you got the best players on the market?
I think having A Gon around has helped him massively. 2 years ago he couldnt hit lefties worth a damn (.222). A Gon shows up and magically Ortiz is hitting .329 against LHP.
On NESN interviews Ortiz has actually commented many times about that. Adrian has helped many guys on the team, and Ortiz always watches him in the cage and gets pointers. Its def helped.
Question.. if he doesn’t accept arb, and doesn’t sign with anyone right away.. is there a time limit put on for the sox to recieve a pick?
Maybe if he waits past the start of the season? Not sure.
The limit is like the day before the actual draft takes place, which will be sometime in early June.
That two year offer is very low compared to arbitration, without arbitration it would have made some sense.
Holy crap! Way too expensive. Jack Z. Walk far away from this one.
The DH position is changing, it seems most teams want to use this position to rotate players on the team to give them a semi day off.
He’d be wise to accept. Looks like he’s going to end up in Boston anyways. They can always work out a 2-year deal later.
It’s easy to see the logic behind that 18/2 offer, but if 25 gets the deal done w/o going to arbitration I say do it..
I think Papi’s finally accepting the reality that a 3 year deal for a 37 year old won’t happen. Especially for a DH
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