A few notes regarding the Athletics in the wake of tonight's Trevor Cahill swap with the Diamondbacks …
- The A's preferred Jarrod Parker over Trevor Bauer during trade talks with Arizona, a source tells Bob Nightengale of USA Today (Twitter link).
- Assistant GM David Forst confirmed that all of the A's players are available to be traded except for Jemile Weeks, tweets Jane Lee of MLB.com. Two players who have been mentioned prominently in rumors this offseason are lefty starter Gio Gonzalez and closer Andrew Bailey.
- Interest in Gonzalez and Bailey is "intense," a Major League source tells Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com. The Rangers, Blue Jays, Nationals and Marlins are targeting Gonzalez, while the Red Sox are after Bailey, according to Rosenthal. The Rangers and Reds like both players.
- The A's objective is to get younger – not necessarily cheaper – and to build a competitive team within three years in anticipation of a potential move to a new ballpark in San Jose, according to Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle (Twitter links).
- Parker and center fielder Collin Cowgill both have a chance to win starting jobs in spring training this year, according to Joe Stiglich of the Bay Area News Group (Twitter links).
Parker is like 9 months younger than Cahill. This is about getting cheaper.
and 3 years less service time.
And a higher ceiling
Parker has way less sevice time and will cost the A’s less than 30% of what Cahill would. He’s also got #2 potential if he really does hit. All indicators so far have been that he will. Even if he doesn’t, he’s likely a solid 3 with flashes of 2 on any given day. So the A’s get cheaper and MAYBE better all in one package. Either way, the money saved could be spent on other talent too.
Or Parker could be a complete flop. Cahill was signed to a team friendly deal for the next 3 years at least and unless they suspect he will get worse then there’s no need to trade him now.
Parker is big league ready and has been waiting in the wings for a team where he will get a chance to play. He’s a low-risk trade for Beane and Co. He’s low-risk even compared to Bauer. But Bauer has an even higher ceiling. Parker at his best will be a solid #2 or, on some teams a #1. That’s by the end of next season. And he’ll be playing for scraps compared to Cahill aas a solid #3 that had the wheels fall completely off the second half last season. His one outing last season against LAD he was lights out. That is only one game though. The biggest difference is going to be in dollars spent and in IPs. Cahill, barring a melt-down or injury will pitch more innings next year. Parker will almost certainly have better peripherals going to a pitcher’s park.
Younger not cheaper, eh?
So, going in on Darvish, huh?
wow..can the A’s win 55 games next year?
No
Cahill has posted a 2.1 WARP over the past two seasons…identical to Josh Tomlin.
Cahill is vastly overrated. Had a great ERA in 2010, but his peripherals were very lackluster. His FIP, Sierra, tERA, and FRA were all pretty average to below average the last two years. I know bWAR and fWAR liked him a bit more, but still not an Ace or TOR starter. He’s more a #3 on a good team as he doesn’t strike a lot of guys out and walks a decent amount.
A’s did very well on this deal IMO.
for this reason it is funny that people question how good a gm beane is. moves like this just go to show how good he really is
I think Beane is both a bit overrated and underrated..if that makes any sense. He does make some very good/smart moves given the hand he’s dealt (bad stadium, poor attendance, smaller market), but he does make some odd moves (dealing for Holliday seemed like a bad move to start IMO and really downgraded from Gonzalez to Wallace).
Would love to see what Beane could do with a larger payroll. Reminds me of Shapiro in a lot of ways.
he gets props for being the innovator. The rest of the league has caught up to him in many ways. I think Billy Beane would even agree that there are smarter GM’s than him in the game now. Of course without Beane, who knows if/when those GM’s would have arrived.
Shapiro was better. Shapiro had great scouts and understood the game. Shapiro was a treasure.
Shapiro was a horrible talent evaluator as it pertains to the draft. After Sabathia, and I’m not sure how much of a roll he played in drafting him, what mlb talent was he responsible for producing from the draft? Draft meaning not international signings (which he still gets credit for) and not trades for prospects from another teams system.
Good points on the draft. I mainly meant- and should have written- major league scouting because the Indians seemed to get the most out of their major league players and acquire good ones in trade (and signings). But I could have cleaned out Bavasi too I guess.
What has he done that makes him so great?
Sandy Alderson had a lot to do with those successful teams too.
oh not much really, just draft guys like tim hudson, mark mulder (which turned into haren and that whole trade tree), barry zito, eric chavez, rich harden, nick swisher, joe blanton, and carlos pena. Also trade for guys like jason isringhausen, mark ellis ( i know he’s never been great, but he’s been a staple in the lineup for a while), jonny damon. also made free agent signings like john jaha, frank thomas, david justice
you know…just to name a few
and yes i know he’s had a bunch of blusters, but come on, “what has he done that makes him so great?”
he didn’t draft chavez, and pretty much every GM in the league has drafted players that match up with the ones you just listed.
he’s an above-average GM that got his name from some hyped up book. Chavez, Giambi, Hudson and Tejada (which were large part of the foundation of those playoff years) all came from Sandy A.
What really shows Beane’s success are the A’s teams of 2005 and 2006. You’re right that the Big 3 and 3 great hitters made the early 2000s A’s great (along with some smart trading like Dye, Damon). Beane made two trades after the 2004 season that are his legacy. Few would have traded Mulder or Hudson. Beane traded both.
Hudson was a bad trade but the Mulder trade was fantastic. Beane managed to turn an ace and the shattered remains of an ace into an ace with 6 years of club control, two of baseball’s best prospects (neither of whom became stars unfortunately), and two bullpen pieces. Skip forward and the A’s were competitive for 2 more years than they should have been almost exclusively because of Beane.
And then, due to luck, bad drafting, and the lack of money to make up for mistakes, Beane’s A’s fell back to where almost all smart market teams reside. Beane should have blown it up then but his competitive drive (and maybe the owner’s competitive drive) caused the A’s to continually try to reload as they had successfully in 2005 and 2006 instead of rebuild.
Beane has been a GM who knows how to stay competitive with a good team and push a semi-good team to the next level, but not one who knows how to lose and rise from the ashes. That last skill is one I’m not sure many have.
Damon was a pathetic acquisition
They gave up Angel Berroa, Ben Grieve and AJ Hinch. Damon had the worst year of his career in Oakland but he still did great in the playoffs and led to the draft picks that became Nick Swisher and Mark Teahen.
yes, giving up angel berroa, ben grieve, and mark teahan for johnny damon, mark ellis and cory lidle was very pathetic…
(sarcasm)
How can you possibly say, based on this deal, that Beane is a good GM? Parker and Cahill are about the same age. Difference is, you have some semblance of who and what Cahill is. What if Parker busts out and becomes a back of rotation type and Cahill develops into a solid #3 or #2? Is he still a genius then?
Cahill has been playing professional baseball since e graduated high school so to say he going to develop into a #2 or 3 guy is like saying your waiting for Conor Jackson to develop that home run swing. Cahills max was 2010 so even if he were to perform at that level consistently the A’s already know where that is at and that doesn’t fit into their plan. If they can pick up a high ceiling guy that will be ready in a couple years to vie for an ace position in a new ball park then BB is the genius ur not giving him credit for. Age is completly irrelevant here because Parker is on track to break at the average age. Cahill has jus been with the organization since 18 instead of after school
problem is…Cahill is one of probably 3-4 A’s players with any type of trade value and the A’s sold super low. Imagine if they traded him last summer after he went bonkers.
The A’s pretty much have Gonzalez, Bailey, and Balfour that they are relying on to get prospects for their next rebuild…2 of those guys are relievers. Things are looking really bleak. They will be easily top 3-5 worst team in MLB the next 3 years. B McCarthy is looking like our number 1/opening day starter lol
Valid point..however, there’s nothing to suggest Cahill’s value wouldn’t have been even lower next witner or this summer if his ERA as closer to 2011 than 2010 again.
Plus, you’re assuming teams would have been lining up to trade for Cahill after last year…but fact is, a lot of teams now put stock in sabr stats and wouldn’t have given up much more (if any) than the D’backs just did as they’d have seen his peripherals as a sign he wasn’t as good as his ERA indicated.
ya, you are right. I think this haul is the most we could expect from Cahill…it’s just very depressing that they got to throw in the towel this early. It was not too long ago when Anderson, Cahill and Gonzalez were breaking into the majors and the A’s were a year away from bringing up the next wave of hitters (Carter, Taylor, Mitchell, Cardenas, Weeks, etc.). Looked like things were set up for a nice homegrown team that could build together.
Too many prospect busts and injuries mixed in with the inability to sign free agents really demolished this plan. I just hope Beane can find a way to get rid of guys like Suzuki and Pennington. Some new, young blood will be much more watchable than anything our pathetic offense has put up the past several years.
I like suzuki, I’d take him in Boston
Cahill is a solid pitcher. His 2010 numbers were so good that they seriously skew his overall numbers. However, Parker will almost certainly make the rotation and Cowgill will likely be the opening day CF. All-in-all, both teams got something they needed and the A’s got to sell high on Cahill. Maybe he develops and becomes something special, closer to 2010. But chances are he’s somewhere between 2010 and 2011. That means neither team got significantly better in the trade, just different.
Make some more deals beane
he needs to make a great gio trade. It will be the move that buries the future or puts the A’s on the right path. Either way, it will define the direction of the team for the next 3-6 years. He is the last remaining big asset and Beane cannot afford to swing and miss. I pray he gets a decade defining deal.
ya i agree i like ur username too taylor’s a beast cardenas has got potential and weeks is just awesome i don’t care for carter though. We got bailey though too i say we trade bailey for trumbo and gio for some good outfield prospects
I would be surprised if Beane would trade for Trumbo. Yes, Trumbo has good power, but his OBP is beyond terrible. Doesn’t seem like a Beane/moneyball type of player at all.
And while some have argued Trumbo will get better with age, he never was a very good minor league OBP guy, so to me there’s nothing there to suggest he’ll ever be anything special in the bigs. He’s a right-handed Russell Branyan to me, but with a bit better defense. Nothing speical though and you could do a lot better for Bailey IMO.
ya thats true who do you say they trade bailey for?
I’m not an A’s fan so really not sure. I just personally don’t see Trumbo as a good fit, but maybe I’m wrong.
Tribe fan here, but think both the A’s and Indians are very similar organizations (small markets, similar ideas). I’ve seen several Chris Perez for Trumbo fan trade rumors, but same idea applies, doesn’t seem to fit the type of player the Tribe likes…I mean, yeah Trumbo would be an upgrade on power but his OBP was actually worse than Matt LaPorta’s. What happens if the league adjusts to Trumbo and he becomes only a 15 HR guy? He really becomes a replacement level player at best.
I personally think the A’s need to hold on to Bailey to mid-season…I think there are just too many closers on the market to get good enough value (see the Santos deal).
Sigh and I don’t know how many times I have to say this but Moneyball was not about OBP or getting guys that walk a ton.
That’s why the A’s had a Cust fetish right?
Moneyball WAS about OBP guys. It just was not only about OBP guys though.
Actually it wasn’t and the only reason why they even had Cust was because he was the only power threat on the entire team.
Moneyball was about taking advantage of market inefficiencies so that you can field a competitive team without having to pay the high prices teams like the Yankees were paying. That’s where stats that people didn’t think about were in play for Beane especially sabremetrics. Back then it was OBP that people didn’t think about. Lately it’s been speed and defense. Guys like Coco, Weeks, Sizemore, Suzuki, Kouzmanoff were all guys that fit that mold. It didn’t lead to a good team but it was part of the Moneyball approach.
beane was one of the first Gms to really base his evaluation on the ability to draw a walk, so yeah, he loves high OBP guys and made a point of emphasizing it throughout the minors.
The only reason OBP and Moneyball get lumped together is because, at the time, OBP was undervalued. This is one area where the rest of the league has caught up with Beane.
So instead of using OBP as the market inefficiency, the market turned to defense as an inefficiency. Moneyball and OBP do not go hand-in-hand. Moneyball is definitely not about finding guys who draw walks.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The only reason why he emphasized it in the minors was because it was working. Look at it now. He has since picked up guys like Kouzmanoff, when does he draw a walk?, Willingham, decent walk numbers but he does not have a high OBP at all, even Jemile Weeks, the only guy he isn’t willing to trade does not draw walks that much. Like I said he’s focused now on speed and defense. Willingham is really the only exception because he was a power guy and every team needs one of those guys.
thanks. I agree with your assessments of the A’s young guy although I’m a little shaky on Taylor. I really hope he figures it out. I still hold hope for Carter. He has looked awful in the limited action he has seen but a lot of seems to be an Andris Beidrins like shattering of the confidence. Ditto on weeks..will we ever see cardenas?
I feel for Bob Melvin. He is being given a team where 100 losses are pretty much guaranteed. Been a depressing winter especially with the moves the Angels made and Texas just being Texas. Seems like the A’s are going to have to spend money just because of revenue sharing. I fully expect a flurry of signings of league average and overpaid vets past their prime. We need something to get excited about. Coliseum going to be emptier than ever.
yepp absolutely true this year is going to be terrible but its going to be awesome once they move to san jose, lot more people will show up to games i live in san jose and would probably get season tics if they moved
You see the A’s and Angels trading with each other?
Will they keep “Oakland” in the name once they move?.. I can never find a solid answer for this question…Anyone know?
Why would San Jose, etc., want their team to be called Oakland?
To keep expectations low? 😉
Angels are not in L.A county,its about 45 minutes away from L.A. The stadium is in Orange county. Most NFL Teams have the stadiums outside their respected cities. So why can’t The A’s keep the Oakland in their name?…
I don’t know how the Angels pull of that BS, but I admit that I didn’t think about those few NFL teams. The answer is no, they will drop the Oakland name without a doubt.
Reason the Angels go by LA now is for marketing. LA is the huge market and they wanted to tap into that. They are also considreed to be part of the greater LA area.
San Jose is a larger market than Oakland, so if the A’s move, they will definitely drop the Oakland part and go with San Jose. San Jose and Oakland are also 2 different metro areas (according to most, some consider SJ/SF/Oak one giant market), so a name change is needed.
The Giants/Jets go with New York for similar reasons even though they are both in New jersey.
Angels started off as the LA Angels 50 years ago, and also the OC is considered the the greater “LA Metropolitan Area.” I think i am in the minority of Angels fans by saying i don’t really mind the name change. It has brought us more interest and $ so I’m ok with it. Only thing i hate is people (especially my friends) giving me a lot of s***
Because the city (San Jose) that going to be spending tax payer money to build them a stadium are not going to be fond of them being called anything other than the San Jose whatever?
There won’t be any taxpayer money going to the new stadium. It will be privately financed. This of course is ignoring the small amount of city time and money for the paper and political stuff.
BA trade central says Parker and Cook can reach 100 mph, they obviously have some issues though
Cook has had control issues. Like many that throw that hard, when he’s hitting his spots he is nasty unhittable. However, if he’s having an off day, he’s prone to walks.
Parker’s biggest issue is being part of a gluttony of stud prospect SPs that the Dbacks have coming up. Out of Bauer, Skaggs, and Parker, Parker is the most expendable. He has already had Tommy John surgery, but has had a whole season and then some of time to recover from it, and so far seems to be showing no ill effects.
Parker topped out at 96 or so last year. Cook has serious heat, but flukey delivery which leads to some control issues. He was just converted to a reliever prior to the 2011 season.
Great trade for the A’s I believe. Cahill is a good-not-great starter, but I can’t help but feel the Diamondbacks over valued him. Parker is major league ready and there is a strong chance he ends up being a better pitcher than Cahill is.
I’m not sure it’s so much that the Dbacks overvalued him as it was that the Dbacks have THAT MUCH in the way of good pitching prospects that they actually HAVE to move some of them. Oakland rightfully wants a king’s ransom for Gio. Cahill was traded for while his value was still high.
It’s so damn hard to be an A’s fan sometimes. We’ve been in a continuous rebuilding mode since the ’06 ALCS.
Thats not true, the A’s were primed for playoff action and had a good team in 07 but were derailed by injuries, and then the big mistake year of 09 when they made the worst trade in club history to get Matt Holliday for no reason whatsoever and signings of Giambi and Nomar. Dont make statements like that, theres no truth in them. They only rebuilt in 08, 10-present
There was a reason. The rest of the teams that year weren’t looking to great and the A’s saw an opportunity to take the division. Unfortunately, Billy didn’t take into account Matt Holliday’s lack of interest in playing on inning in Oakland.
as soon as weeks has some more trade value they’ll trade him..consider him gone
I thought Billy Beane liked guys with funky deliveries. Bauer is most likely better than Parker
he also can’t be traded until january or february
Bauer should be much better than Parker, I think he will be the best pitcher in the draft, and that’s coming from a Pirates homer who’s team drafted Gerrit Cole. If they had some chance to get him in this trade and chose Parker instead, Beane is crazy.
As an A’s fan almost every aspect of this deal disgusts me, this picking of Parker over Bauer is the icing on this dumpstercake of a trade for the A’s.
you should read hermie’s comment below about the choice of parker over bauer
Parker over Bauer? havn’t seen either pitch much, but I’d have to go with Bauer i think. Maybe since Bauer has a major league contract that makes him less desirable?
if he had waited til january or february then he could have gotten bauer as a ptbnl, since he was drafted this year. and even then bauer wouldn’t have joined the a’s until june or july, with this, we have parker all year
Exactly, fans need to remember draft rules on trading players. Can’t be traded for one full calendar year after you signed after being drafted. An example of this was Drew Pomeranz this past summer. Tribe traded a PTBNL in the Ubaldo deal…Pom was that guy but couldn’t go to Colorado til August 15th (deal was end of July). For those 2 weeks Pomeranz did NOT pitch in any real games, he simply threw some simulated innings.
Bauer signed earlier this summer but still couldn’t be dealt til January 25th at the earliest. The risk there is what do you do with him for the 6 months til he can officially be sent to Oakland on July 25th? Does he not throw in any games for the D’backs minor league system? Would set back his development. Plus, what happens if he were to suffer a serious injury in those 6 months? Yes, can argue it’s not likely, but with young pitchers you never know.
Plus…I highly doubt the D’backs would have wanted Cahill for Bauer as he is more highly rated than Parker. Bauer would have been a better trade chip for Gio than Cahill IMO.
There’s no way Bauer goes for Cahill, not even if Bauer was trade eligible today. Bauer will quite likely be in the AZ rotation next season and is projected as an ace. Failing that he’s still likely to be a better number 3 than Cahill and will cost far less. The only reason the “prospect” tag is still on Bauer is that the Dbacks wanted to limit his innings pitched last year after he pitched for UCLA in the post season earlier in the year. Despite that he came quite close to making it to the bigs in September anyway.
Yeah it’s hard to imagine Bauer being included in that deal.
A’s aren’t going to be competing this year and maybe even the year after. I understand having Parker over Bauer for the year, but when the competing factor doesn’t matter you have to take better/higher upside player
If Beane like Parker so much, why didn’t KT go and get Gio instead?
Uh, wut? What would make you think it would be the same trade for Gio? Gio has much more upside than Cahill.
Kevin Towers should be fired if he really was willing to part with Bauer
I thought they scrapped the rule on trading recent draft signings in the new CBA?
nah, it’ll just be that the signing deadline will be moved up, in turn, moving up when a prospect can be traded, the 1 year rule still applies i think