The Angels announced that they obtained catcher Chris Iannetta from the Rockies for starting pitcher Tyler Chatwood. In a related move, the Rockies are close to signing Ramon Hernandez to a two-year, $6.5MM contract.
The trade provides the Angels with additional offense behind the plate and rounds out the team's offense with the kind of high-OBP hitter Dipoto expressed interest in earlier in the offseason. Iannetta posted a .238/.370/.414 line in 2011 and given his career line of .235/.357/.430 the Angels are likely expecting similar production in 2012.
Non-tender candidate Jeff Mathis is probably expendable now, whether that means the Angels trade him before the December deadline to tender arbitration eligible players contracts or cut him loose.
Chatwood, 21, posted a 4.75 ERA with 4.7 K/9, 4.5 BB/9 and a 47% ground ball rate in 142 innings as a rookie for the Angels this past season. The 2008 second round pick entered the season as the 76th ranked prospect in MLB, according to Baseball America. He has a 3.40 ERA with 7.6 K/9 and 4.9 BB/9 in parts of four minor league seasons.
The deal is Dipoto's first since being named the Angels' GM about a month ago. It's worth noting that he made the move with Dan O'Dowd, who was Dipoto's GM at the end of his playing career in Colorado. Dipoto made other significant trades as Arizona's interim GM in the summer of 2010.
This is a good move. Catchers who can hit are hard to find, not that this guy can rake. But fans need to be aware of the fact that there are a lot more Jeff Mathis’s out there than you might think. The market is full of them this offseason. Ianetta walks a lot too. That’s great for the bottom of the Angels order. As for Chatwood, let the Rockies develop 2nd years pitchers in their #4 spot. The Halos need a veteran there. And DiPito isn’t going to let the Angels remain 3 deep with Jerome Williams as the only remaining big league option. This also tells me Dipito could be going for a starting pitcher next.
Agree with everything you said.
His OBP will be a nice boost. From what I can tell looking at his numbers, he seems to be the type that might satisfy Scioscia’s defensive standards behind the plate too.
Iannetta’s numbers away from Denver are worrisome though. I’m not sure those numbers will translate when 3/4 AL West Parks are pitcher-friendly.
if you want to feel better look up Jeff Cirillo and Miguel Olivo’s splits the year year before coming to Denver hell look up Larry Walkers splits
extremely shortsighted
they lost a start with good potential and got a catcher in return whos number away from coors field are just as bad as mathis.
Angel fans just need to pray that Iannetta’s plays more like he did in Colorado and a lot less like he did while on the road.
That said, Chatwood is no huge loss. His upside is extremely limited given his inability to miss bats. Control was shaky. He may eventually put it together but over the past few years he has done nothing but regress.
I predict that this will be a blah move for both parties. Not expecting anything big from either player. However, this does move Mathis out of the equation. For that, all Angel fans should rejoice.
Ianetta does walk a lot. That will be a big plus for the bottom of the order.
not that i disagree with them, but i doubt i would have gotten such mediocre reviews of chatwood’s potential if i’d asked angels fans about him prior to the news of this trade
I’m an Angels fan and i agree big time. I don’t hate the trade, but i feel like the Angels could have done better. I was expecting a Chatwood +low minor leaguer for Iannetta + Stewart
Wrong, at least in my case. The guy made me nervous as F every time I watched him. I cut him some slack though because the only reason he was up in 2011 was because of Kaznobyl Meltdown 2.0 and Pineiro’s struggles. Same with Richards (who I think will be better). Talk of relying on the two of them plus Williams for 40% of the Angels’ starts in 2012 made my skin crawl, and I’ve made that known where I’ve seen it come up.
I get the cost control/years argument, but the Angels needed help at C more than they needed a guy who looks like he might be an average player in a year or two. Maybe they could have worked a better trade, but it’s not the end of the world.
do you think it’s unlikely that had he been permitted to pitch in AA like richards this year he could have put up a 3.7 FIP? he put up a 4.0 FIP in AA in 2010 while 2 years younger than richards was this year, i certainly don’t
if chatwood, like most 21 year old #2 organizational prospects, had been allowed to pitch in the minors last year and put up good numbers, would you still feel the same way about this trade?
maybe you would, but you’d be in the vast minority. i don’t even like chatwood myself, but his 2011 performance is being held against him unfairly here. he was playing way over his head and he still held his own. we generally give prospects a lot of credit for that
Exactly, you can’t possibly expect Carlos Santana or something for Chatwood. Just gotta be realistic.
I’m Ned Colletti and I disagree with this statement.
How is it a good move? Chatwood isn’t great or anything, but the Angels were better off signing Hernandez than trading Chatwood for Ianetta. If the Rockies get Hernandez to replace Ianetta, they are basically getting Chatwood for free then.
Exactly my thoughts. You’ve got to give Conger a chance to play.
Not that bad of a trade. Chatwood isn’t projected to be much more than a ground ball lower end of the rotation pitcher (kind of like Saunders’ upside)- therefore he’s expendable. Iannetta is better than Mathis, though I feel his offense is a touch overrated (good on base percentage though).
.419 Home OBP
.321 Away OBP
On the plus side, at least his OPS+ was 102. However, Hernandez had an OPS+ of 113.
It’s about time SOMETHING happens in this slow, slow FA market. It’s like watching paint dry. Nice trade on both sides, BTW.
I’d say the Angels won this one.
For now, yes. But it all depends if Chatwood blooms. Iannetta will probably see his power go down as he is no longer playing at Coors.
Which is exactly why O’Dowd should have been able to get more for Iannetta.
more than 5 years of an org’s top 5 prospect who pitched a full MLB season at age 21? i don’t like chatwood much myself and i do like ianetta, but i doubt it they could have gotten much more for one year of him
I don’t see Chatwood being able to help the Rockies in 2012, so I do not see this move at all addressing this team’s immediate needs. This, to me, is a move for future years, and I wonder if O’Dowd is already giving up on 2012 before it even gets here.
“I wonder if O’Dowd is already giving up on 2012 before it even gets here.”
This was my first thought exactly. He’s basically throwing all of his chips in a rotation of very young guys: Pomeranz, Chatwood, White and Chacin. While hoping Arenado is MLB ready for 2013 and Rosario is ready for the full time job behind the dish by then as well.
Looks good for 2013 but I dont see this team being much of a contender in 2012.
Not sure how swapping Iannetta for Chatwood and (essentially) Ramon Hernandez means that they are throwing in the towel.
O’Dowd has continually said his top priority is to get a veteran innings eater (which is what the Rox need more than any other position) and all the rumors which have been reported in the recent weeks have been about obtaining relievers, second basemen or a catcher (Hernandez).
What I was trying to get at was, this deal helps the Rox develop a young and very talented starting rotation for the future but it does not help them for 2012.
Iannetta should have fetched a pitcher who could help the team in 2012, not 2013 or later.
I like the deal for future years but if you have a useful trade piece and glaring needs for the coming season, doesn’t it make more sense to take care of first things first?
“past tense”
I’m sure the Rangers might have traded you Torrealba (slight sarcasm, but i’m mostly serious)
I say.
Indeed.
Oh wait—the Angels are run by bufoons.
they aren’t anymore. in theory, anyway
Isn’t Reagins still with the FO in a capacity?
suddenly that is very easy to believe
catchers walk alot in the NL because they hit in front of the pitcher. not sure what dipoto is thinking here. give conger the reigns and let him go already. sign CJ Wilson to something similar to Weaver or bring in Guthrie from Balt. Bring in K Rod or H Bell to close for the next couple of years. Done.
Conger isn’t 100% ready….they will split time and I agree about the obp% hitting in front of a P…BUT even if that drops to the low 300’s that is WAY better then Mathis…
Argh, I wanted Mets to get him. He had a great year this year and is young as hell. Not sure if Angels overpaid though.
Why? Chat wuld be a great #2 starter and he is only 22..I have no idea who won this trade but to me looks like the Rox did…He isn’t something special but as long as Chris does what he did with the Rox i will Be satisfied
More like “Chat will be a decent #4 starter”. He isn’t anything special. I thought the thinking that “every Angels prospect is amazing and we must hang on to them” was over with finally.
Well he is 22 and ya and the fact that we still have Richards,Shoemker,Reckling and Angels are known to get pitchers its fine….So as long as Chat doesn’t make a deal with the Devil..Angels should be winning on this trade..As long as Chris isn’t another Mathis in Angels Stadium..then Angels would really be screwed with a 2.3M Contract on Chris..Hope he at least hits BA .250+
You worry about his BA and I’ll hope he does well in more important stats.
Will ya there’s those geeky stats that are good to but if he BA,OBP,and the basic stuff is pretty beast for a catcher..Then those Geeky stats will be similar
You worry about his BA and I’ll hope he does well in more important stats.
Not sure on Shoemaker, but Reckling and Richards are nothing special either. I guess it matters little when you have Weaver/Haren/Santana though.
Ya pretty much when those starting 3 are in the talk it can matter less about getting rid of a SP
I don’t think he will be a great #2 unless he makes some MAJOR adjustments….I am fine w/ this move b/c the Angels needed some production from the C spot and Conger IMO isn’t 100% ready to take over…I just hope the OBP he had hitting in front of a pitcher won’t drop off now in teh AL….not to mention his slg% going from hitter friendly Coors field to pitcher friendly Anaheim….
I completely agree. Conger proved last year that he isn’t ready to take over the job and I don’t get why people are up in arms about this deal. Conger is still plenty young, and having Iannetta around is going to have an immediate impact while also giving Conger more time to transition into the position.
So you’re guaranteeing that chatwood will be a great #2? Because he’s absolutely not a sure thing right now.
When did i guarantee anything?
When did i guarantee anything?
Have you ever seen Iannetta’s numbers away from Colorado? Ouch. Not a good fit here and the Angels lose a guy with way more value.
I agree but trading for a catcher gives Angels the ability to now sign a starter and a closer/ another big and really good RP
dude, are you seriously going to switch sides literally 1 night after going ape sh** on another thread about how the Angels don’t need pitching? Choose a side!
When was this again 1 night ago? Did the Angels sign a Catcher 1 night ago? And when did i say that Angels don’t need pitching? I said if they would to trade Izzy it better be for a catcher because there is enough pitching with the Angels and on top of that there’s enough on the Market to buy 1 or 2 RP..Never never ever did i say Angels DON’T need pitching.. Now with Catcher checked off the list. Jerry can Focus to spend money on a starter,RP, or if he decides to go after Offense
Angels didnt sign a catcher tonight either. and you kept ranting and raving about how we have enough arms and blah blah blah
Lots of young RH talent on the Rockies. Does Chatwood open up a possibility of flipping White or maybe moving Hammel or Rogers?
I thought the same thing, Prog…if anyone goes I’d rather it be Hammel…if Rogers ever really truly gets it figured out he’ll be a solid #3/#4…hopefully they give White a full season to get acclimated to Coors/NL…
I don’t think Rogers is physically up for being a 190+ IP starter. He really looks to me like a guy who can make a productive career as a long-relief/spot-start sort of guy, though, and there’s value to having those sort of players on your roster.
Rogers could be flipped for a B prospect (or maybe 2 C’s).
Wow, the Napoli trade just keeps making the Angels look bad. But Iannetta may just need a location change, I think I like this deal for Anaheim/LA/California/whatever they are.
location change? the dude got to hit in Coors half of the year
Laughed out loud on that one. Well played.
i think ianetta’s going to be fine and i don’t even like chatwood personally, but it’s still a big win for the rockies. 5 years of young pitcher for 1 year of a catcher whose production you already replaced? very nice
Well Ianetta is definitely an upgrade over Mathis though, but as I and others have said, the Angels should have just kept Chatwood and signed Hernandez who has been better the past couple of years, despite being 7 years older.
If you think Ianetta is an upgrade over any one, then you’re sorely mistaken.
Iannetta > Mathis. If you think otherwise, then you’re solely mistaken.
you’re out of your mind. jeff mathis posted a wRC+ of 26 last year. everyone in an upgrade over him. everyone
I’m an upgrade over Jeff Mathis
angels fans should have started a ribbon campaign like that or something. everyone wears a pin or a t-shirt: “i am an upgrade over jeff mathis”
I think a Jeff Mathis for 2011 All Star game campaign would have been much funnier..
“GREAT! Jerry just got me a quality back-up catcher, so I can rest Mathis once a week!”
–M. Scioscia
“GREAT! Jerry just got me a quality back-up catcher, so I can rest Mathis once a week!”
–M. Scioscia
angels fans should have started a ribbon campaign like that or something. everyone wears a pin or a t-shirt: “i am an upgrade over jeff mathis”
not having a catcher is an upgrade over mathis.
You’ve obviously never seen Jeff Mathis at the plate.
Whoa, whoa whoa. Slow down everybody. Aren’t we forgetting that Mathis led all MLB catchers with 14 sacrifice bunts? You just can’t put a price on that kind of talent.
14? Yikes!
I’m sure plenty of NL SP’s had less than that.
I agree that the Rockies made a couple of solid decisions. But I think Scioscia must have wanted Iannetta over Hernandez, and it probably came down to some intangible.
probably true, but still a very poor reason to give up 5 years of chatwood
Not really. Chatwood may be young and can develop more, but the Angels have a much better version of Chatwood in Garrett Richards. He really was expendable, and in the process DiPoto improved the catching position and the team’s OBP (it’s been awful the past two years, any improvement helps). I don’t think he’ll provide much home run power, but he will provide some gap production and walks, two things the team sorely needs.
…and could have gotten without giving up chatwood. you people are running in circles around the issue. it’s not that the 2012 angels need tyler chatwood, it’s about getting fair value for your resources
ianetta makes as much as ramon hernandez. in terms of projectable performance, they are virtually identical players. in addition to money, one costs 5 years of a young pitcher. the other one costs nothing other than money
assuming chatwood is nothing more than a back-end 2 WAR pitcher, that’s at least 10 WAR given away for no reason at all
Not really. Chatwood may be young and can develop more, but the Angels have a much better version of Chatwood in Garrett Richards. He really was expendable, and in the process DiPoto improved the catching position and the team’s OBP (it’s been awful the past two years, any improvement helps). I don’t think he’ll provide much home run power, but he will provide some gap production and walks, two things the team sorely needs.
He’s only 21. Its not like his development years are over.
Who said that? lol…i said he had promise w/ the Angels, why would they trade him
Then that makes more sense. iirc, I think I intended to reply to Joe Wright up there ^^ anyways
lets be honest….we needed SOMETHING better back there. The trade market for catchers was AWFUL. Chatwood is not projected to be a legit rotation pitcher…a back end, Joe Saunders like pitcher at best. There are tremendous upsides to this trade.
1. Better OBP
2. Jeff Mathis is bye bye
3. C.J. Wilson (or another free agent and/or trade for a starting pitcher) will almost surely sign with us
4. Iannetta will mature playing for a WINNING team and under a catching coach
Personally, I don’t think this will make a huge difference for either team, but there are always upsides!
awesome. player is traded -> player was overrated. every time
What’s next for the Angels?
Giving Vernon Wells a three-year extension?
I know you’re joking, but it would only be funny if Reagins was still running the team. I have faith that Dipoto knows what he’s doing. At this point, anything is better than Jeff Mathis.
ianetta’s good (much better than mathis), they just didn’t get fair value
Rockies steal!
How is this a terrible move? We need an everyday catcher that has great OBP to fill the void while Conger gets more seasoned. Chatwood was expected to spend the majority of next season in AAA anyways.
Mathis and Wilson will soon be off the roster which opens up spots for another SP and hopefully another 3rd baseman.
“Chatwood was expected to spend the majority of next season in AAA anyways.”
and he’d still be young for that level. nevermind the fact that he already pitched a full season in the bigs
you know who else will spend the majority of the season in AAA? dozens of other pitching prospects who also shouldn’t be given up for one year of an average catcher when you could have just signed a similarly average catcher for money alone
Yes…but he didn’t exactly blow the league away when he came up and wasn’t necessarily dominating the minors either. I won’t be surprised if he develops into a regular back-end starter, but some people here are acting like the Angels gave up Strasburg for Iannetta.
The Angels WILL have Weaver, Haren and Santana for at least the next two seasons, and it looks like they might add Wilson or someone else soon, too. I think they’ll be set SP wise for at least a few seasons.
if he had blown the league away at 21, he’d make a short list of one of the top talents in baseball. the fact that he didn’t set records doesn’t make him expendable. it’s not either strasburg or bum
i’m not arguing that the angels doomed their 2012 season. i’m saying there are seasons other than 2012 to consider here. giving away 5 seasons for 1 (of a catcher they could have just paid an extra $1M for!), they did not get fair value at all
Actually Iannetta is making $3.55 million in 2012 ($5 mil club option in 2013 also). Assuming Hernandez makes the same amount in each of his 2 new years, that’s less than Ianetta.
Of course we can’t assume though that the Angels would have offered the same amount as the Rockies did. They may have offered him even more.
the club option can be voided by ianetta, but yes. offering twice as much to hernandez would have been wiser than forking over chatwood for ianetta
lol I doubt Ianetta is going to void $5 million if the Angels pick up on it, especially if he puts up numbers close to his Career Away numbers.
the point is that even if he plays really well, they won’t be able to keep him with that option
Yeah I don’t see them picking it up either. So basically in the end, it’s giving up a young pitcher for 1 year of Chris Ianetta then?
jeff mathis makes people do crazy things
Yeah, such as buying this for $50 (listed on the web page this is from)
lol I doubt Ianetta is going to void $5 million if the Angels pick up on it, especially if he puts up numbers close to his Career Away numbers.
the club option can be voided by ianetta, but yes. offering twice as much to hernandez would have been wiser than forking over chatwood for ianetta
the club option can be voided by ianetta, but yes. offering twice as much to hernandez would have been wiser than forking over chatwood for ianetta
Actually Iannetta is making $3.55 million in 2012 ($5 mil club option in 2013 also). Assuming Hernandez makes the same amount in each of his 2 new years, that’s less than Ianetta.
Of course we can’t assume though that the Angels would have offered the same amount as the Rockies did. They may have offered him even more.
if he had blown the league away at 21, he’d make a short list of one of the top talents in baseball. the fact that he didn’t set records doesn’t make him expendable. it’s not either strasburg or bum
i’m not arguing that the angels doomed their 2012 season. i’m saying there are seasons other than 2012 to consider here. giving away 5 seasons for 1 (of a catcher they could have just paid an extra $1M for!), they did not get fair value at all
Yes…but he didn’t exactly blow the league away when he came up and wasn’t necessarily dominating the minors either. I won’t be surprised if he develops into a regular back-end starter, but some people here are acting like the Angels gave up Strasburg for Iannetta.
The Angels WILL have Weaver, Haren and Santana for at least the next two seasons, and it looks like they might add Wilson or someone else soon, too. I think they’ll be set SP wise for at least a few seasons.
I think it’s pretty funny that some people are saying Chatwood isn’t going to be a good pitcher based on his stats from this season. He is a 21-year old going up against experienced major leaguers. Give it time.
I don’t care about either of these teams, but people who think Ianetta only walked because he was behind the pitcher would be wrong. He walked in 15% of PA in the 8th spot and 12.8% in his career in every other spot. Sure, there’s the chance that they walk him to get to the pitcher increased that the 2.2%, but are you going to complain that much about a difference in 7-10 walks over 450 PA?
Rockies are building a great young rotation.
iannetta had a .990 OPS against lefties… that certainly helps whether or not it was away or home.
since Conger was better against righties last year anyways… split up time accordingly
So the Angels traded a 22 year-old pitcher with some upside for one year of a guy who is best-served hitting against LHP?
Even if he hits against righties and lefties… he’s an improvement over our catching situation last year.
Can’t argue with improving the team… Chatwood was a 4th or 5th starter at best and probably will be better in the NL. Didn’t have overpowering stuff — yes he’s young, but totally replaceable. Garrett Richards, on the other hand, looks FREAKING awesome.
I think we will be able to replace Chatwood, even with his team-friendly contract. I honestly don’t know of another player on the Angels MLB Roster that would’ve got this deal done that seems more fair.
Ideas?
Ianetta will get the majority of starts this year behind the plate but I see more of an even split late in the year. Catcher rips players up, you need to platoon the position to get any longevity out of players. Good move Angels.
I’m still sad that Dipoto couldn’t talk the Rockies into “throwing in” Ian Stewart in this deal.
I don’t see him putting up a .360 obp next year.
Career:
Home:
.377 obp, 869 ops.
Away:
.338 obp, .707 ops.
Just to add to what the post above me wrote.
In addition, having the pitcher behind him adds to his obp somewhat. Intentional Walks/Being pitched around adds to his OBP.
Yep, although last year he only had 5 IBB’s, so his OBP doesn’t drop by much.
Yep, although last year he only had 5 IBB’s, so his OBP doesn’t drop by much.
Iannetta’s final 2012 line is going to be very similar to his 2011 line.
I don’t think most people understand the adjustment that Rockies’ hitters have to make when they go on the road in terms of additional movement on pitches. No player on any other team has to deal with that, and it’s a real difference.
This is honestly one of those trades that both sides win. Rockies basically got Chatwood for nothing what with Hernandez signing with them. I’ll admit I have no clue what the quality of the Rockies minor league pitching looks like, but an addition like Chatwood can only benefit them. Sure his ceiling is fairly low, a #3 or #4 guy at best, but at 21 he has time to still overcome the learning curve. As for the Angels, Iannetta is a HUGE upgrade at the position, BA be damned. I understand that he his home/road splits are ugly, but I really like his OBP. Not only does he hit for power, he also draws walks. Nobody’s expecting Mike Piazza, all that the Angels really need out of the catcher spot is getting on base.
It seems like most people don’t need convincing that the Rockies got a good deal, yet a lot of people are calling the Angels losers in this trade. They honestly didn’t lose considering what they gave up. The argument that the Angels are losing their pitching depth isn’t all true. Looking at their minor league system, they have several guys who put up the same numbers as him, i.e. Garret Richards, Trevor Reckling, etc. Chatwood is serviceable, but really expendable for the Angels. And don’t even get me started as an Angel fan of the relief I felt when I saw this trade. Not only does it mean an almost immediate upgrade, it also means Dipoto is fully aware of the team’s holes and will do whatever he can to fix it. He tried for Hannigan, to no avail, and I’m sure a 4.75 era pitcher will draw a high-caliber player, so Dipoto really got the best that he could. We just can’t afford Hernandez.
i still cant get over his home/road splits, and it’s not like he has a lot upside. still, i dont think it’s a terrible deal at all for the angels like some of you are making it out to be
and i hate to say this, but as a dodger fan im jealous that the angels have a GM who knows what OBP is
“Nowhere in the post does it say that Chatwood is available to be traded
for Ianetta who is probably not even worth trading major league ready
talent for. I’d make this trade for a prospect or a PTBNL.”
– you, 1 day ago, when this trade was first rumored
Ha ha. Perfect
Ha ha. Perfect
lol
lol
Yea, I could’ve sworn they had gotten rid of Reagins.
Looking at Ianetta’s home/road splits, the Angels just got flat out murdered on this deal.
go back and look at Miguel Olivo’s 2009 and 2010 splits he went from a 850 road OPS in the AL Central to a .538 Road OPS with the Rockies, Home/Road splits are not indicative of Rockies true talent level
“Home/Road splits are not indicative of Rockies true talent level”
You showed his Road OPS of .538 with the Rockies but apparently you did not look at or chose not to show his Home OPS with the Rockies which was .905.
What was Olivo’s total OPS those two years?
.781 and .765. That say seem similar, but his OPS+ in 2009 was 103 and in 2010 was 92.
2009 happened to be the only year of his career in which he had an OPS+ of above 100 anyway. So I’m not sure why you’re looking solely at these 2 years.
had he postED a .530 ops at home or on the road in the years prior?
let’s try this, is it easier by total OPS or road OPS to tell when Jeff Cirillo became a Rockie?
Total
1996 .325/.391/.504 .894 OPS+121 wRC+120
1997 .288/.367/.426 .793 OPS+106 wRC+108
1998 .321/.402/.445 .847 OPS+123 wRC+129
1999 .326/.401/.461 .862 OPS+119 wRC+121
2000 .326/.392/.477 .869 OPS+100 wRC+97
2001 .313/.364/.473 .838 OPS+98 wRC+96
Road
1996 .350/.404/.548 .951
1997 .289/.371/.436 .807
1998 .329/.409/.469 .878
1999 .300/.375/.454 .828
2000 .239/.299/.329 .628
2001 .266/.327/.383 .710
He spelled “Iannetta” wrong too…
Spelled
I also want to point out that, while Iannetta’s stats at home were much better than away during the past 3 years, the years before he was much better AWAY than home.
Maybe there are some other factors at work is my point… It might not be the altitude effect.
*end Angels fan optimism*
The “Coors Field Affect” also hurts hitters when they go on the road due to increased pitch movement. That doesn’t happen to players on other teams.
Iannetta is going to be just fine for the Angels.
Maybe Hernandez didn’t want to sign in LA?
go away
Now.
go away
please… we only need one person typing in all caps on this site. At least he’s insightful too…
please… we only need one person typing in all caps on this site. At least he’s insightful too…
please… we only need one person typing in all caps on this site. At least he’s insightful too…
Great point.
Why do the Angels always seem to go 1 step foward and two steps back in the trades they make?
Unfortunately as and Angels, I don’t know if we do this as much as we give too much credit to our “top” prospects. I mean in past they have not always come to be. The majority of our prospects that have panned out are very seldom referred to as our “top” prospects with the exception of Weaver.
I liked Napoli and Chatwood and I thought they were both important pieces for you guys. Its like everything goes in a circle, getting Wells cost you guys Napoli, Rivera, and Chatwood, so now you guys have a solid catcher which you guys already had in Napoli.
Napoli was far from solid w/ the Angels…he had shoulder issues and could only throw out 25% of base stealers….the pitchers era when he was in the game was a run higher then the weak hitting Mathis…despite his HR totals they were usually in blow out games(up or down so basically meaningless) w/ no one on….he was bad w/ risp…
To be honest I think he put too much pressure on himself to please Scioscia….once w/ the Rangers he was able to relax and it showed in his footwork and CS%….
Had Well not tanked this past season the trade wouldn’t have looked bad…but b/c Naps new found success and Wells horrid year just makes the trade appear more of a flop….BUT I will say that I’m not judging the trade just after this 1 season…lets see if Wells rebounds and if Nap maintains….as for Rivy….he was out the door regardless….
I admit I was initially perplexed… While I never thought Chatwood was an ace in the making, he did have his moments in 2011 (almost threw a CG shutout against Baltimore, if I remember off the top of my head). Plus, ace or not, he’d most likely be the fifth starter in 2012, barring any pitching acquisitions (which probably will happen). And it’s not like the Angels have a surplus of Major League ready arms right now.
That being said , even if Iannetta were to only match his ‘away’ numbers from 2011, he’d still be a vast improvement over Mathis. And the Angels do have some strong prospects in the lower levels of the minors (Ariel Pena comes to mind), and they also have Trevor Bell in AAA, who gives them almost the exact same things as Chatwood. So… I don’t think the Angels are losing anything they’ll sorely miss… it’s not like they traded Chatwood for a $20 million/year outfielder, or something…
Pretty sure most pitchers either threw or almost threw a shutout against the Orioles…ok, had to be said.
Agree with most of what you said, though I doubt Trevor Bell has Chatwood’s career.
The Angels also have Garret Richards, who by the end of the year, actually got the same level as Chatwood development-wise. Also, not to sound like a sore lose or anything but, Richards has better pitches than Chatwood. For their current pitching depth, I would say a mixture of Richards and Jerome Williams, who was unhittable in the time he played last year, would suffice behind Weav/Haren/Santana. For the long run, like you said, the Angels have some flame-throwers in the low-levels. There’s Ariel Pena, and there’s also a really exciting pitcher in John Hellwig. He sucked as a reliever, but when converted to a starter he pitched to the tune of a 2.12 era in Single-A. Just someone to look out for.
Definitely. A win for both sides is how I’m seeing it right now.
Definitely. A win for both sides is how I’m seeing it right now.
Definitely. A win for both sides is how I’m seeing it right now.
Actually, third.
Actually, third.
I must have missed the memo where they said a 21 year old who had a bad year has no chance of picking it up.
so… across 2 GMs, the Angels have officially traded Napoli and Chatwood for Napoli-lite and Vernon Wells.
must be great to be an Angels fan.
Anyone else see this as a lose-lose? With a slight advantage to the Angels
Chatwood is going to get killed in Coors, and its gonna kill his career, Ianetta is a good catcher, which is what the Angels needed, Conger was not doing it for them.
Napoli is better than both Ianetta and Hernandez.
Conger still needs some time to develop….he’ll split time w/ Iannetta….Ianetta/Conger in ’12 is going to be way better then Mathis/Conger of ’11…
Napoli IMO had a monkey on his back (Scioscia)….Nap put tooo much pressure on himself to be perfect for Scioscia and made mistakes…once w/ the Rangers he was able to relax and his footwork and CS% improved….also remember he still only caught 60g in Texas…(18 dh/35 1b)
If only the Angels could continue to hang onto prospects with “potential” for years until they no longer have it. Crap, hang on, Brandon Wood is on the phone….
Wood placed that call from Colorado, oddly enough…
not near as bad as the wells napoli deal
come on now
although i must say im interested to say the least of where this will go
As opposed to holding on to that “upside”, sitting it in the minors for at least another year, and hoping that it turned into something? The Angels have built a reputation on holding onto prospects for too long. I’m surprised that Chatwood evokes this much response from the community, to be honest.
Oh boy, I do not like this move at all. I guess the Angels still have Richardson and Weaver, Santana are both fairly young so they’ll have depth for the next couple of years. However, I watched every game that Chatwood pitched this last season and the kid, when settled down, was good. It was all mental for him, not talent. Don’t bs me with his stats, watch clips of him. 3 years and he will be as good as a Santana/Oswalt(3 years ago). You can’t give away a talent like that for a catcher who hits terribly on the road and has a decent OBP because he’s in the National League in front of a pitcher. Anytime there are 2 outs, the 8 hole usually gets intentionally walked or pitched around. I’d rather of just kept Chatwood and let Conger have a chance. They don’t have much to trade for a power 3rd base anymore, unless Dipoto gives up Bourjos. I pray that he doesn’t. Dipoto, strike 1.
its a 50-50 trade,ianetta is an ok catcher just like chatwood is a ok pitcher,the best i see chatwood improving is a couple knotches below buerhle.besides we have garrett richards,trevor reckling,cam bedrosian, and fabio martinez in the minors we can afford this trade.
Question…how many fans of other teams actually know what Chatwood’s upside is? He’s likely to settle in as a #4 starter or will end up in the bullpen. Richards has better stuff and a higher ceiling….they already have Weaver, Haren, Santana. This move isn’t going to set them back. IF there is one thing the ANgels have excelled at in recent years, it’s pitching. Chatwood has a good curve and that’s about it. The fastball has good velocity but it is his worst pitch and he throws it 75% of the time! For reference, Justin Verlander, who has one of the best fastballs in the game, only used his 57% of the time. Unless Chatwood drastically improves and uses his secondary offerings more, he’s not going to be very successful. Iannetta helps improve the Angels dramatically just for the fact that he’ll be replacing Mathis. Iannetta was a 3.3 WAR player last year, whereas Mathis was -1.0 WAR. This move alone is pretty much a 3 win swing and at a very low cost. Doesn’t add much payroll at all and they can now focus on adding more SP/RP…perhaps even working other trades
As far as just signing Hernandez…did anybody take a look at his 2nd half splits? The guy is up there in age and really declined sharply in the 2nd half
I find it very interesting that when this trade was being rumored a day ago or so, Angel fans were saying “no way on Chatwood, that would be a huge overpay, etc” and as soon as this trade happens everyone is ripping him.
Its news to me that a 22 year old has a bad rookie season and cant turn it around. For him to be making his debut at 21, clearly the Angels saw a lot of promise in him.
They like him yes but they also didn’t really have any other alternatives. They are very thin as far as upside goes at the higher levels in their minors…so rushing Chatwood and Richards was what they did as they were the only 2 arms at the higher levels that have any promise/upside. I’m not ripping on Chatwood. He has good velocity on his fastball and good sink, he has a really good curve and a solid to average changeup. His upside is a #3 starter…but he’ll have to improve and incorporate those offspeed pitches more if he’ll ever reach that. Unfortunately, breaking balls don’t break as much in Coors, so his best pitch being a curve doesn’t really bode well for him. I think he settles in more as a quality #4 starter…or a good bullpen arm
i went to highschool with chatwood
Go back to /sp/
heck Mathis cant hit his weight which is roughly 180 I would be an upgrade over him