The Red Sox and manager Terry Francona parted ways following Boston's September collapse yesterday, ending an eight-year run together. Soon after, we learned that White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper was pushing for Francona (after Ozzie Guillen's departure), and that the Red Sox will conduct a thorough search for their next skipper. Let's keep track of the latest regarding the Sox, Francona, and GM Theo Epstein right here throughout the day, with the latest up top…
- Epstein is interested in becoming the Cubs GM, tweets Peter Gammons, and it remains to be seen whether Red Sox owner John Henry can perhaps convince Esptein to stay in Boston as co-CEO and promote assistant GM Ben Cherington. Ben Nicholson-Smith recently interviewed Cherington as part of MLBTR's GM Candidates series, so be sure to check that out to learn more about him.
- After speaking to a few people familiar with the Nationals' thinking, Adam Kilgore of the Washington Post doesn't think the Nats will pursue Francona.
- Joel Sherman of the New York Post (Twitter link) has spoken to many executives over the last two days who believe Epstein will be granted permission to interview for the Cubs' GM opening, and that he'll end up in Chicago. No one in the Red Sox organization has given a definitive "no" when discussing Epstein to the Cubs, Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe notes.
- The White Sox continue to focus on their original short list for managerial candidates, even with Francona now available, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
- Mike Salk of 710 ESPN Seattle hears that the Red Sox have interest in Mariners manager Eric Wedge, but there is no indication that the Mariners would be willing to let him go (Twitter link).
- Bobby Valentine has support in at least "one important corner" of the Red Sox front office according to ESPN's Buster Olney (on Twitter), and he will presumably be brought in for an interview.
- In another tweet, Olney reminds us that Epstein is the x-factor because he may not be with the team next month as the Cubs GM job continues to loom.
- WEEI.com's Alex Speier looked at everything we learned from the Francona situation and the fallout of Boston's collapse in a must-read piece for Red Sox fans.
- The Boston Globe listed five potential candidates for the Sox's now vacant managerial job.
Gotta ask cause I do not read up on it. Is there a feeling that Theo Epstein is overrated? I mean he has an outstanding budget which propels him to an advantage in almost any situation. When his starters were struggling not only from injuries but late fatigue there was nothing in the well. Am I creating something that is not true? I think half the people on this board can put together that team given that budget. People please help me understand.
The people who claim he is overrated because of the money he gets to play with would have more of a point if it weren’t for the fact that most of the core, impact players were either drafted and developed by the Sox, or were traded for. Rather than re-writing all of it I’m just going to steal a post that notsureifsrs wrote that makes it pretty clear what I’m saying (hope he doesn’t mind):
“without (meaningful contributions from) the big free agents they signed, (~$65M worth between lackey, crawford, drew, cameron, jenks), they were still able to field a team that, while playing in the AL East, was the best in baseball for months and, if not for an improbable turn of events in september, would have made a run in the playoffs
that’s a ~$95M payroll. not peanuts, but it’s rangers & tigers territory – less than the cards, phils, and yanks. not much more than the brewers. the rays and dbacks are the only ones fielding playoff teams with much less
again, there’s no way around the fact that all of those free agents were signed and did contribute practically nothing in 2011. a couple of those contracts are really bad. those are failures and epstein has had big ticket failures before. that matters and you have to hold it against him
but all of you are already doing that constantly, and you’re doing it without
appreciating the foundation built beneath all of it that actually did all of the heavy lifting this year. it’s drafted talent, much of which is signed to great extensions. and much of the rest of it was traded for using drafted talent”
The payroll certainly helps him be able to overcome making those free agent mistake, but the very areas he makes those mistakes in would be the areas that having the bigger payroll should help him have an advantage in. The areas he is best in are the areas that payroll doesn’t give him that much of an advantage.
You do realize that the core impact players developed by them are 3 out of their starting 9, right? that’s 33.33%, and nope, those acquired via trade don’t count as ‘an achievement’ by Theo, the trick of including them is to say “our GM is a genius because he got Adrián and Varitek and Saltalamachia and…”, but as a matter of fact he was unable to develop a good 3B/1B to take over either base once Lowell was on his way out, so they had to sign Beltré, and then trade a crop of sub-par minor leaguers for Adrián, they didn’t have a good enough OF to take over LF so they had to sign Cameron, and then Crawford to fill Cameron’s place, they didn’t develop a good enough catcher to take over Varitek and they had to trade for Saltalamacchia, it would be like saying that Cashman is a genius because he traded for Swisher, Granderson and Alex Rodríguez:
Internally developed players:
C Saltalamachia/Varitek —> Trade/Trade
1B Adrián —> Trade
2B Pedroia —> Draft
3B Youkilis —> Draft
SS Scutaro —> Free Agency
LF Crawford —> Free Agency
CF Ellsbury —> Draft
RF Drew —> Free Agency
DH Ortíz —> Free Agency
3 out of 10 if we include Varitek
Yankees:
C Martin/Cervelli —> Free Agency/Amateur signing
1B Teixeira —> Free Agency
2B Canó —> Amateur signing
3B Rodríguez —> Trade (and later through free agency)
SS Jeter —> Draft
LF Gardner —> Draft
CF Granderson —> Trade
RF Swisher —> Trade
DH Posada —> Amateur signing
There’s 4 in the everyday lineup, 5 when Cervelli catches.
Sure, we could include Reddick and Lowrie instead of Drew/Scutaro to increase the Sox’s homegrown players, but the Yankees also have Núñez and Peña, who was with the team even if the NYY have little or no use for him, and yeah, we could include pitchers to try and pad it a bit, but let’s face it, they just contribute once a week.
The Phillies had in their everyday lineup 4 homegrown players in: Ruíz, Howard, Utley and Rollins.
Tampa: Upton, Longoria and Brignac, and sometimes Jaso.
Rangers: Kinsler and Moreland.
I was going to say that you missed the point, but after reading some of the other things you have posted I’m quite sure you have intentionally ignored the point (as well as ignoring the entire pitching staff). The point is that the money that Theo gets to spend isn’t even what made this team successful so to say that he only good because of that money is plain wrong. The guys that contributed the most to this team were guys who were drafted and developed, or were traded for, not simply “purchased” as free agents.
What about considering Varitek for Manager? Just sayin…
I like that idea in 5-10 years. I think the guy could be a good manager in the future, but I’d rather him start as a minor league manager and go from there.
i have not enjoyed the things i’ve heard about varitek recently. significant personality changes
Wait. Really? What kind of things have you heard? I generally try not to read “regular” sports writers, so I don’t hear a lot of this stuff.
i have a policy against reading them. but this francona fiasco has lead to a little bit of research
much of tito’s reason for wanting to leave was based on what he politely described as his inability to reach “players he used to be able to reach” – guys with the “sense of entitlement” thing going on. that’s pretty transparent, so it just becomes a question of which guys he’s talking about
it’s been reported more than a few times this season that there was a ‘clique’ of sorts in the clubhouse that included varitek and a few others. pair that with these articles about varitek this season:
usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/redsox/story/2011-…
articles.boston.com/2011-04-26/sports/29475579_1_j…
and i think we have our man. i don’t begrudge the guy the right to live how he wants – good for him if he’s happy. but by his own descriptions he’s moved far away from the traits that made him the man, that made him so admirable and such a fit for the role as a coach/manager imo
There are things in those two articles that make me wonder a little, but the only thing I saw that I think would have been a problem was where it talked about him spending time on the beach instead of preparing like he used to, that would definitely be an issue with me, but the personality changes don’t really seem like they would inherently be bad. I also didn’t know he was part of the clubhouse clique.
beckett lester lackey (wtf) wake and varitek is what it seems to be. shame if true, but i think it’s a mountain-from-a-molehill situation overall
but i’m definitely concerned about a guy as a managerial candidate who was prone to that kind of thing. and like i said, he’s welcome to relax a bit or whatever, but it was the grind-grind-grind thing that made him who he is, that made him so popular. losing that matters imo
do you remember crawford’s mysterious “go ask the captain” comment? makes a little more sense to me now
Holy crap, I forgot about that comment. Definitely puts that into a new perspective.
Yeah, I know what you’re saying about Varitek. I’m not as sold on him as a future manager (or really even part of the coaching staff) as I was.
Interesting there and Thanks.. Wonder (on one hand) how close to “25 cabs for 25 players” this team was getting under francona, like it was under Zimmer when he let it go under Rice as the team Cappo, who refused to take the duty seriously and put the team 1st.
Why not just retire team Captain title anyway? If what you suggest (and it makes sense) the onlyteam captain the Sox have ever had who actually performed the duty 1/2 way for the positive outlook of the team was Yaz anyway.
If Tek was going against what was best for the team, especially early on in the summer.. It was up to Francona to intercede regardless and seeing how tek was producing nil all all season, after he was warned (or should have been) a Mike Cameron type release should have been performed if he ceased that attitude.
Then..This guy has been one of Francona’s “pets” since 2004 and it would not have ever happened, much like (for example) pedroia had 2 horrible seasons and rightly deserved releasing, or Ortiz etc…
This is (IMO) why Francona was shown the door.. he could not run a ‘company” or staff, letting the chickens run the hen house and it cost his company millions.
“If Tek was going against what was best for the team, especially early on in the summer.. It was up to Francona to intercede”
this is basically what terry said without naming names. he said it was his responsibility to get through to these guys and he felt like he had lost some of that ability, that the team needed a new voice
i don’t think tito was necessarily shown the door. he indicated that he wasn’t sure how much support he had with ownership, but theo was very openly lobbying to make sure he stayed. but from tito’s perspective, it probably was going to take strong backing from the front office to make him want to stick around and deal with the clubhouse problems he described
I wonder though if it was Varitek why wouldn’t Tito have stayed (there is a good chance Tek is done with the sox at this point anyway). I’m wondering if some of the other guys you mentioned were a big part of the problem too, guys like Lester and Backett who are part of the core of the team and are going to be around a while. If that’s the case and Lester and Beckett were a big problem that doesn’t really bode well for the future of this team I wouldn’t think.
i definitely don’t think it was a one-player issue and i suspect varitek was not a big factor. but he was, prior to this year, the guy who lead by example to say the least. i think wakefield was part of it too, especially re: the entitlement issue
did you see the press conferences? one of the big drama issues revealed was that a few of the starters were drinking beer in the clubhouse on off days. doesn’t scream emergency to me, but it seems symbolic of the larger issue francona was concerned with. i suspect it was the beckett/lester/lackey/wakefield group involved, and i suspect there was frustration that nobody (like varitek) was helping to keep things in line
lots of things we’ll never know. all i’m saying is my view of varitek has changed quite a bit, and maybe of beckett and lester too. but we’ll see
Beckett and Wake came to mind here as well as possible issues, along with tek after notsureifrs mentioned him. Also all along have thought that Papelbon could have been some kind of problem at times.
the one thing that could come out of this is several they can let go if they so choose, as Maine mentioned, Wake and Tek have probably played the last game with Boston, Tek for sure and Wake if Epstein (or whoever if he leaves) os not go out and acquire any extra pitching depth, then i do not even see him getting a ST invite.
One other issue and has had me thinking since the entire story broke is how much Youk worked with the players disrupting the team chemistry, or if his being hurt much of the year may have hurt his ability to help rein in some of the problems.
I didn’t take that away from those articles at all. Tek has always been admired by his teammates for his work ethic. I think the poisonous atmosphere in the clubhouse is due to Lackey and Beckett. Beckett has been vocal in his support for and admiration of Lackey, and I think Lackey has been a bad influence on him attitude-wise. Lowell was a good influence both on him and others there but he’s gone now. It’s known that Beckett flat-out refuses to work with certain catchers – I don’t know how that can possibly be a good thing. And he’s never been exactly a ‘nice’ guy – he’s always given me the impression of being an a-hole outside of the clubhouse. I also think there has been a huge divide between the pitching staff and position players. All season it looked like the pitchers were just taking for granted that they had a power-hitting offense. As a position player I would be visibly frustrated at having to make up for an 8-run Lackey outing, and then have him turn and show me up for failing to make one catch, not taking any responsibility himself. Ortiz’s comments about starting Aceves are indicative of this divide. When you have one group shouldering the load for most of the season, conflicts are going to arise.
lots more speculation that i’m comfortable making for sure. could be much ado about nothing, but it at least seems clear to me that things about varitek have changed. when i combine that with the knowledge that the clubhouse was a problem, i don’t feel confident that varitek becoming manager is an effective solution
well, no, but I wasn’t replying to whether or not he’d make a good manager. (A good bench or pitching coach, maybe a minor league manager to start off, but certainly not a manager right off the bat. Who knows if he even wants that?) What I was replying to was the notion that he was somehow a clubhouse problem. And in that, I don’t see how your logic makes sense. What you stated above are 2 different things: Tek being a clubhouse problem, and Tek unable to be a manager. Varitek (1 guy) is a more relaxed guy now + the clubhouse (any one of 25 guys) was a problem does not = Tek as the problem, OR him being unable to manage the team – sorry. And if what you were trying to say was that Tek, as captain, should have been able to control the atmosphere in the clubhouse is simply absurd. He spends enough time babysitting the pitchers and wiping their noses, in between studying the other team, teaching Salty and Lavarnway, and lastly, batting practice – now you want him to make sure guys are being nice to eachother and not slacking off? That’s not his job.
we know:
– there were clubhouse problems
– the source of the clubhouse problems were players tito used to have a good relationship with
– varitek has changed a lot since last year
– varitek was in the reported ‘clique’
– at least one other player suggested a problem related to varitek
it’s speculation only because the don’t have confirmation. it’s pretty clear he was part of the problem. how big of a deal that is depends on your perspective. it’s not a big deal to me outside of the context of managerial discussions
we know:
– there were clubhouse problems – ok, sure.
– the source of the clubhouse problems were players tito used to have a good relationship with – who could be anyone who was in on the team prior to this year. Which is most of them. So I don’t know how this gets reduced to Varitek.
– varitek has changed a lot since last year – in what way? because he’s engaged and happy? I don’t see this as being a bad thing. NESN reporters who sat next to the dugout during games said he was just as busy as he’d always been, going over things with Lavarnway and Salty before and during games.
– varitek was in the reported ‘clique’ – what’s this 7th grade clique you’re talking about,and what’s your source for this?
– at least one other player suggested a problem related to varitek – ok, you say at least, meaning “one or more”. The only thing I can think of is Crawford with his “ask the captain” comment, but we don’t even know what the hell he meant by that. Maybe he was just being a dick to the media. Maybe Tek called Crawford out on something – we don’t know enough to say that there was a problem related to him.
it’s pretty clear
he was part of the problem. – actually, it’s not, since none of the above has really been verified.
Sure it is some speculation and some of it is based on the fact varitek’s skills have slipped the -0-. *possibly he was trying to *help* run things in the club house to make up for the lack of skills he now possesses. More speculation which everyone mentioning any of this has admitted.
Bobby Valentine would be my first choice. I really don’t want Wakamatsu.
I’d like Dave Martinez….or even Tony La Russa if he can bring Duncan over to be the pitching coach…that would be a major help…also an idea I’d like is Jim Hickey…but that is just me…
LaRussa would whip them into shape…. I hope he never leaves St. Louis Though.
I like the idea of Rick Burleson… Reno Aces Hitting Coach and has played ad coached for the Sox before and managed multiple championship teams in the minors. He is also a no BS type guy that the Sox need.
Had forgotten all about “The Rooster” who was a fiery guy as a player, but wonder what experience he has since his playing days ended nearly 30 years ago?? This is the “type” that they need though, someone who wil be a vocal team leader, such as Burleson was in his playing days.
The first guy that came to mind to me was Ryan Sandberg
sure, go and get him. meanwhile the new Cubs GM will go and get Ryne Sandberg
HA! this made me laugh out loud.
As a Yankee fan, I am way too bummed out about this whole Francona thing. The guy is the most successful manager in Red Sox history. Brings them 2 titles in the last 8 years and is one of the classiest guys in the game. It’s just a shame he departs under these defeated and deflated circumstances. Every part of me wants to walk into that Red Sox club house and point at the players and say; “you did this.” We Yankee fan’s experienced something similar with Torre a few years back, but I don’t know, something about it was different then what is playing out now with the Sox. There really weren’t any player issues like this.
Yeah sure perhaps the change will be good in the club house, but it can’t feel great to be a Sox fan knowing that the real problem still needs to be addressed and those problems are all getting paid $15mm-$20mm per year.
I’d rather have seen the Sox management say “we screwed up giving you players that don’t fit on a line up card” “you’re our guy and we’ll fix it.” It wasn’t the pressure to win that did Francona under, it was the pressure to make something work putting the square peg in the circle. It’s that simple. 15 all-stars on that team and all but one (Pedroia) left their “all” at home and just brought their “star” to the park.
Proceed to trade Lackey anywhere for anything, trade Crawford with a little cash to the highest bidder. I’m serious about this and despite people saying its not possible, make it happen. Call up the Angels and whoever the new GM will be and get it done, regardless of cost. The guy will never be a Red Sox and Fenway plays to ZERO of his strengths. Plus if he is traded and the Sox pay salary, perhaps Crawford can get he head out from under that contract. Its pretty bad when the player making $20mm a year knows he is worth no where near that. Let’s face it, that’s basically what he told everyone this season. Re-sign Ellsbury, get two young (coachable) outfielders (the Sox really REALLY screwed up not going after Pence as that guy would have been a slam dunk gritty star for the Sox RF for years to come) forget Scutaro, just bring up Igelsis, let him hit .150 and have a young guy that can be coached and grow. Youk is a problem too. The guy has missed significant time every season for the last few years and the Sox should have had more foresight when slotting him into that line up this past season as one of the only righties. Bad move. There is no place to put him in the field going forward. Pass on Ortiz at this point, not because of his production, but if you’re going to give the same “new voice in the club house” with Francona, I think the same should apply for Ortiz. Trade for Dunn to slot in behind Gonzalez. I don’t believe Ortiz will be as good as he was this year going forward and I don’t think Dunn will be as bad going forward. Go after an experience catcher like Jose Molina, bring up Lavarnay full time as the back up, regardless of whether he is ready or not and move that guy Salty. He’s just useless and there is no argument there. Varitek and Wakefield are done. It’s over. The Papelbon situation is a really big issue for them. He is not worth 3 years and $45mm, no chance, but they don’t have any other option and may have to do that. They still have Beckett, Lester and Pedroia, the only three true Red Sox players left. They will be the voices of the clubhouse going forward. No Ortiz and no Youk. Make Pedroia the team spokesman going forward, shoot even make him the new captain.
I’m pretty tired of already reading the last few days that once Youk and Buchholz are healthy everything will be better. No, it won’t. That’s the same mentality that got them to where they are now and neither have shown they can be consistently productive. Buchholz has had only one productive season and as every baseball metric showed in 2010, it was pretty much an aberration.
I’m open to argue these points, but if I was GM, I’d go into that club house like a tornado and do exactly what everyone says you shouldn’t do.
I could not agree more with you. This team needs to be gutted out. They need to take a real hard look in the mirror and make major change. Everybody should know by now the Pedroia is this teams leader make him captain already. When Tito said he couldn’t get through to players like he normally does I couldn’t help but think it was Youk, Ortiz, and possibly Papelbon. I’d say let Paps walk and go after Bell or Valverde even..It is sad Tito’s departure came like this and wherever he goes is damn lucky to have him in their organization.
Thanks. Far too many mayors in that club house. Pedroia was ambushed by management with a bunch of hyenas.
I agree, Bell is a much more attractive than Papelbon at this point. Papelbon can definitely pitch, no argument there, but he’s another voice and “nut case” mentality that Sox are better off without.
I also think Bell’s personality is something that is needed in that clubhouse. The team when you looked in the dugout seemed to have no personality just sitting and watching and idk it didn’t seem like the Red Sox. If I had my way somehow the Sox would get Brian Wilson…however, realistically that is not happening..
…and that was my problem in 2004, I couldn’t hate the Sox. It wasn’t even that heartbreaking for me considering the 2003 hangover lasted for years. Looking back, I can’t believe how much I liked that dysfunctional group of Sox in 2004. Weird. There is nothing, not one thing to like about this current Sox team accept for Terry Francona, oh wait, forget it…
I don’t think I saw the bullpen playing drums even once this season, now that I think about it.
Every time the Red Sox were on national TV in hispanoamerica, they showed the bullpen playing drums, the “ESPN En Español” guys had the order to only cover the Red Sox bullpen/dugout every time they showed them (about 3 times per week out of their scheduled 6 games, the other 3 games were either the Yankees, the Phillies or the Mets).
Youk was just banged up, I don’t think he was the problem. Battling a sports hernia for 3 months I’m sure isn’t fun. I’d only sign Ortiz if it was for a 1 year deal and <7M, DH only players are being phased out, I wish the guy could play a shred of defense. Paps goes. Red Sox need to borrow a page out of the Rays book. Bring in a ton of guy and just let them have at it. Look at the closers this year, how many were consitantly good and would you be willing to give 10M+ and count on them doing that well again? Valverde? The guy was pretty lucky this year given his peripherals, and I'm not willing to bet that kind of money on a repeat. I say go into camp with the mentality that Bard will be closer, but make him earn it. Rarely do those high priced relievers work out, (I'm looking at you Jenks and Wheeler).
Everything aside, the Sox are in a tough position going into next year. Internal problems, depleted system, big bucks on the books for years to come, are just a few things that they're going to have to worry about. I hope they can figure this all out sooner than later, as I'm not ready to be a rebuilding team with a $125M+ payroll (Mets).
I like Youk as a player — he’s one of the top players in the league when he’s healthy — but I wonder how much of a problem he was this year. There are rumors that he was still harping about Ellsbury not being with the club last year while he was hurt, and even if you don’t believe the rumors (I’m not 100% convinced that I do) it still isn’t too difficult to believe that he would be a hard guy to get along with when things aren’t going well.
You’re name implies you’re from Maine idk if you listen to the BigJab or not but some stuff I heard today is Youk plays hard which is why people like him, however he is more about his own stats rather than the team. He will get upset that he didn’t get a big hit….because HE didn’t get it not because the team faltered as a result.
I don’t listen to sports talk radio, they drive me nuts, but that wouldn’t surprise me all that much about Youk. I wouldn’t normally care too much why he puts up good number, or what his motivation is, as long as he keeps putting up those numbers. My problem with it would come when his attitude starts affecting the clubhouse.
I am surprised that Youkilis and Ortíz seem to have a green card to yell at umpires and opposing players whenever they don’t get a hit or an RBI… at least twice a game you can see them vociferating against the umpires and they turn a deaf ear to their antics, same with Papelbon and his antics after each save, something that was overly criticized with other players like… Chamberlain (he was even reprimanded by MLB for yelling after each strikeout to end an important inning).
I actually agree with most of what you said (I’m on the phone with the doctor as I’m typing this…).
A couple things though:
I don’t think they should (or will) give up on Crawford yet. There is almost a 0% chance that he is this bad again next year, clearly he isn’t going to worth his contract, but that should have been clear the minute the deal was announced, and since he doesn’t seem like he is/was part of the problem in the club house (he has owned up completely to sucking and said he deserves all of the criticism) I don’t see any reason to move him at this point.
And I don’t think that they should trade for Dunn, I agree that he wont be nearly as bad next season, but even if he goes back to the “old” Dunn I think there are better options, including some internal options. If I didn’t bring Ortiz back (and I’m thinking more and more that I wouldn’t because I’m wondering if he was part of the clubhouse problem) I would go with a rotating DH, which would allow them to have a more diversified bench, and keep Lavarnway’s bat fresh assuming they start the year with him in the majors like you suggest.
lol
Yeah I’ll agree that Crawford’s work ethic is there. Based on what we read the guy could be perhaps the hardest working guy in the clubhouse in terms of his regime. I just don’t think he fits the mold. Not his personality, his actual talent and how it translates to the park and line up. Who would have thought that a $20mm player needs to look up to someone, but he has no one there. He would have been great around Hunter and Abreu. I agree he probably won’t be this bad again, but I don’t know. He just doesn’t fit. A rotating DH thing could work. But I agree, I think Ortiz is done regardless of yesterday’s reports that management wants him back.
Yeah, I get what you’re saying. I have been wondering about moving him to RF, where his arm wouldn’t play well, but his speed and overall defense would play really well, and overall would probably be a better use of him than Fenway’s tiny LF. And getting another right handed middle of the order bat, or two, would make it easier to bat him early in the lineup where he is more used to hitting. I think he could fit OK if they did those two things. (early in the year, before Ellsbury broke out, I was all for moving Crawford to CF and batting him leadoff, but there’s no way they can displace Ellsbury at this point)
I was for the move to CF earlier too, but now no chance and these day’s I’ve thought about RF, but it’s a real gamble considering how much he is being paid, this is the only reason why I say make a move if possible.
I don’t think moving Crawford to RF is a gamble at all. I think it totally plays to his natural ability. He takes long lines to balls because of his speed and I think LF at Fenway left him more confined than anything. He rarely looked comfortable with the angles. I also wouldn’t give up on him. Too much of a track record there for that to happen again.
As for the DH situation, I’d DH Youkilis if they can’t move him. I’m just not a fan of resigning aging DH’s, especially when you look at the Sox situation right now. I’d even consider looking for a nice, tasty deal out on the trade market and maybe upgrade that D at 3rd a bit. Youk at DH would allow them to do that. Also, Lavarnway could be brought up to DH as well. I’m for either.
The only guy I think HAS to be moved is Lackey. I like Lackey. I loved the deal when they made it and I didn’t really start to turn completely south on him until around July-ish. I just don’t think he’s a fit here. Clubhouse doesn’t seem wild about him. Management doesn’t like him. The media doesn’t like him. Now with his divorce going on, his home life has to suck too. And don’t forget his introductory press conference where he mentioned a big part of his reasons for going to Boston being his wife and her family. With that much going on – regardless of whether Lackey deserves it or not – expecting him to turn it around and pitch well is expecting too much I think. I think you can swap a bad contract and get rid of him and gamble on someone else. I’d love to see them flirt with the idea of sending him to the Mets in exchange for Jason Bay – who’s another guy struggling in a particular climate. That’d probably be easy money to work out in addition to filling needs for both teams and clearing a headache in another area. Plus that whole Crawford to RF thing can probably go through after that. Either way, Lack’s gotta go. For the Sox and for him. I think he can turn it around somewhere and I’m not even joking.
I would NOT blow this team up. They were the best in baseball for a considerable stretch of the season. They’ve got holes to fill. They’ve got some pieces that need to be moved. They’ve got some chemistry issues. But they’re not a disaster. Far from it. And I know it seems beyond Sox fans at this point but believe it or not – just because Tito couldn’t get a handle on this team doesn’t mean someone else can’t. I’m pretty optimistic heading into this offseason all things considered.
If his BAbip on grounders stays the same, he will once again suck. And everything points towards that being the case, seeing how Pedroia’s lifetime BAbip on grounders at Fenway is almost the same as the one Crawford had this year. He historically had a better BAbip on grounders when he played at Tropicana, but also the Ray’s park has a faster infield than the one at Fenway which is sssslooooowwww (while it hurts Pedroia’s offensive numbers, it also helps him a lot on his defensive plays, because grounders tend to slow and gives him time to field them at his usual blazing speed).
Crawford’s BABIP was 70 points higher in Fenway this year than it was in other parks, so…
Crawford for Dunn. With a little money from the sox. Dunn will turn it around and Fenway should play very well for him. Crawford would play nicely at the cell too.
Sox can’t afford to take on Crawford’s contract…there’s going to be some serious salary slashing in the next few months
Love people who write BS like this… How about Youk for Longoria or Dice K for Halladay
I get what you’re trying to say but your comparisons are so horrible. Who are the comparable s to Longo or Halladay in the Crawford for Dunn scenario again? They both sucked last year.
Ha! Tampa says “no thanks, we’ll stick with what we got – a healthy guy who can actually field his position.”
I hope you don’t count Ellsbury in the camp of guys that were just bringing their “star” to work – if anything he showed the heart and desire to win. He’s not one of the ones that was drinking in the clubhouse, I can tell you that. He and Pedroia are friends, I’m sure they both were frustrated with having to put the team on their backs in September.
Speaking of Ellsbury…I noted something that sort of bothered me in that 14-inning game at the end of the year. When he hit that homerun that got him in the 30-30 club, the dugout should have been on their feet and applauding in support. The only guy who really congratulated him with any sincerity was Ortiz. I really was disappointed that his teammates could not have shown more support for their teammate’s huge accomplishment – they seemed to not care less or react any differently than they would have had just had an RBI sac fly.
Maybe because everybody knew that it would happen once the Yankees sent their homerun-an-inning pitcher, Scott Proctor to lose the game (the one they sent so the Rays could win and at least tie the Sox… i loved how the Yankees laughed all the way out of the field knowing they had helped to eliminate the Sox, and it doesn’t even matter if they get eliminated by the Rays or anyone else, because they had the last laugh against the team that was dubbed as “the best team of all time, the one that will break all records” by the Boston Red Sox media and PR machine).
All of the canidates are lousy compared to Francona. Nice job Sox.
I’m telling u, Rick Burleson… The Rooster!
I’m voting for Spaceman Lee for the next manager.
LOL if the already had juicers, imagine with Lee… they would need even more help from Mitchell and MLB to hide what the sox players are shooting up their veins… speaking of that, Ortíz never spoke about his positive in 2003 and 2004, nor the Sox addressed the positive by Manny in 2003-2004, nor the relation various of their players had with a trainer stripped of his permit to enter Canada when he was caught with a briefcase with PEDs… nor… LOL
Francona could not carry LaRussa’s Bag!!!! He has been given the best players money can buy. NO Excuses!!!!
“He has been given the best players money can buy”
Doesnt LaRussa have Pujols?
I can not imagine the St. Louis Cardinals with an additional 75 Million to spend this year….. and that would apply to a lot of teams. Not just the Cardinals.
The Red Sox had a budget that was around 54MM higher than the Cardinals’. Also, a majority of Boston’s income comes from Fenway Sports Inc. Theo had a big hand in forming that company. The guy is brilliant.
What role did Theo play in Fenway Sports Inc. Did he lay the foundation to the original Fenway Park too? Jeesh.
On that note. Why in the world would Sox mngmnt even think of letting Theo walk?
Do you even know what Fenway Sports Inc. is? It might be the single best revenue generating tool any sports franchise has ever implemented.
But that’s not a project Theo is actually involved in creating, is it? That’s the ownership’s doing.
Theo definitely had a hand in it. He may not have a whole lot to do with it now that it’s up and thriving, but he knew to compete with the Yankees the Red Sox had to generate more income.
if by the single best you mean after: Manchester United, Cowboys, Yankees (all three work together), then yes… and still each of those generate more than double of what Fenway Sports inc generates even with Liverpool, Bruins and Nascar under its grasps LOL.
Good thing the title of best isn’t determined by the most money.
Pujols was developed by the Cardinals. And unlike Francona, LaRussa had 60% of his everyday lineup developed by their minor leagues.
Developed players
Cardinals: Pujols, Schumaker, Descalso, Jon Jay, Rasmus (before the trade), Molina.
Red Sox: Pedroia, Youkilis (when healthy), Ellsbury.
And delivered 2 world series for the Sox. What’s your point again?
well he wouldn’t have if he’d had to face the cardinals!
…
The sox defeated the Cardinals in 2004.
nothing gets by you
Just goes to show no matter how much you spent, its how you play and the Sox did not play up to what they should have done and thats run away.
Im a lifelong Yankees fan and even I figured with all that talent no one could match up with them
And then they dump Francona the only manager who managed them to 2 world championships…
It was a different team but talent-wise they appeared to be the same – just different younger names but equally as talented..
Its really perplexing ..maybe the pitching was overrated, maybe the bullpen is overrated…but stats dont like, they really had a great team
And to be more blunt I cant believe that the Yankees won the East with their highly questionable rotation. Its like CC and 4 other guys who might pitch a good game this time type of rotation. I like Nova though, Hughes isnt the same and AJ is a headcase , Colon and Garcia have had their moments too..
What an odd 2011 season ! 🙂
Imagine the league with a salary cap!!!!! It would change everything!!!!
Actually it wouldn’t, but that’s an argument for another time. Its safe to say that the last decade of “the Yankee’s spend too much money” is done with after this 2011 season. The Red Sox and Tampa Rays have collectively proven that this argument is invalid and from here on out, anyone who claims that teams with the largest payroll are the winners, because they spend the most money, doesn’t follow current baseball and if you look closely, Cashman and the Yankee’s are going a different direction these days with young talent. You’re going to see Cashman make some incredible trades in this next year or two with the talent he has in the minors. Just wait.
Actually it would change everything. And I mean EVERYTHING!!!!! Why do you think other sports have a cap????? To make it fair for everyone!!!! If you are from anywhere besides New York, Boston or Philedelphia …. you would see things more clearly.
Rays, Brewers and Diamondbacks (two good ole’ fashion middle America teams) are doing pretty well..Cubs, Angels and Mets not so much, so I fail to see where limiting a teams spending ability would improve the sport.
I am not trying to be right. I just have a hard time feeling sorry for Francoa after going out and buying AGon & Crawford. Its ridiculous. I guess the old saying is true… “Pigs get fast & Hogs get slaughtered.
Francona didn’t have anything to do with “buying” Crawford and Gonzalez, and gonzalez wasn’t “bought” anyway, they traded three of their top prospects for him.
My bad…. Signed the next season.
No, he signed an extension after the trade.
If winning came down to just spending the most then the Yanks, Sox, Dodgers, Mets, Angels and Phillies would have more than the 5 WS titles they have had over the last 10 years and the Marlins, Giants and Dbacks would have none.
Three minor leaguers, not prospects, a SS converted to Pitcher, a first baseman with horrible stats, and an OF who was the best chance at being called a prospect. BUT remember that González accepted the trade because the Red Sox promised him an extension without the need to explore the free agency, they came to terms almost as soon as they got him but told him to wait until the season began to avoid paying the luxury tax (it seems every news outlet in his natal México knew about the amount of money and years, except in the US where he was adamant to speak… LOL).
A pitcher who played SS for half a year because he really wanted to try it, and a pitcher who was very highly regarded before the draft and was in the top 50 prospects a year after being drafted (and #31 this year). A first baseman who put up outstanding numbers in the minor leagues, but was brought up too early and forced to hit in the worst hitters park in the majors. And an outfielder who has been compared to Ellsbury (and regardless of your opinion was the only one of the three not in the top 100 prospects).
It’s not “fair for everyone” it’s “fair” for the teams who can’t draw enough fans to support a real payroll. It’s very unfair for the teams who can, and have, for decades.
I’ve seen your posts on here a lot. I know you are too informed to make the “well if your team had fans go to the game….” argument.
It was worded poorly, but that wasn’t really the argument I was trying to make. I think the statement that it would be “fair for everyone” is blatantly a false statement, it wouldn’t be fair at all for the fans of teams who have the revenue streams to support higher payrolls to be held back talent-wise because there are teams who can’t (or wont) support as high of a payroll. It is too bad when there are teams lagging behind in payroll, but to punish all of the other teams (and in particular the fans of those teams) because of them is anything but “fair” to those teams, and their fans.
There are things that could be done to make the playing field more level, but to say that a cap is “fair for everyone” just isn’t correct.
What other sports are you talking about? NBA, NFL? NBA has a cap, look how well that has worked out. Who has been the the championships more? Lakers or Clippers, Celtics or Pacers? Doesnt seem to work out that well for NBA. There isnt much parody is there?
In the last 31 years (since 1980), the Lakers have won 10 championships, Bulls 6, Celtics 4, Spurs 4. Then you can add the Pistons with 3 (won 2 in the 80’s, 1 in the 00’s,) and Rockets with 2 (back in the 90’s). The 76ers (’83) and Heat (’06) are the only 2 teams that have won only 1 NBA championship in the last 30 years (’11 Mavs not included since the following season hasn’t started yet). In addition, all the good NBA teams are in the West while the East is much weaker. Even with a salary cap, you have a bunch of top players going to one team. The Celtics were first trading for 2, the Heat signed their 3, the Knicks are trying to do the same.
MLB doesn’t need this type of “parity.”
I agree with you. My argument is that the salary cap that JohnS seems to think will give more parity (didnt notice i used the wrong word lol) is acutally a bad idea and has not giving a lot of parity in the NBA.
Plus like you said good players are wanting to play along side each other and could potentially do the same thing in baseball, which would make a salary cap a waste.
My post was just to support you on the NBA. And I didn’t mean to correct you when I put parity in quotes, just meant it sarcastically since the NBA doesn’t have it.
i think you meant to say PARITY instead of PARODY… just saying.
thanks captain obvious. Its already been covered. Auto spell on my phone. I was also going to argue your other post but it is very obvious from what i have read you are a serious homer and a sox hater, which is fine. Thanks for pointing out usage of the wrong word. That will get you a lot of respect
It’s extremely fair. I mean it’s not like the same teams are in the post season in the NFL every year.
There’s nothing unfair about baseball. Is it an advantage having a high payroll? Yeah, but the Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, Dodgers, Angels, etc proved that it doesn’t matter if you don’t have the scouting and play evaluation to make good decisions.
BTW the best players don’t win the World Series. The Phillies would have won the WS last year if that was the case.
Check how much the Yanks spent in 2010 to bring in new players to the team for 2011. They mostly spent their money signing their own free agents. And still had the second best record in baseball.
Teams like the Red Sox, Yanks, Phils, have the ability to work over a bad contract given out where teams like the Brewers, Rays can’t. That’s why it matters.
Well… Francona also allowed his players to do whatever they whished in the clubhouse, even going as far as drinking and allowing their personalities to clash and resolve issues as they saw fit. To me that sounds like a cancer who needs to be stripped out.
Salary caps are such a farse. They’ve had one for years in the NFL and the 49ers still suck. The Patriots are still dominant. Much like the Penguins are still good in hockey and Florida is still awful. You can’t take failure out of competition, folks.
Your argument was right until you brought hockey into it. The NHL is so much different from the other big three leagues.
And the NFL and NBA are SOOOOO different that it’s pointless to compare the business model with relation to a salary cap to that of the MLB model.
a) NFL contracts aren’t guaranteed.
b) NFL has a 16 game, once a week schedule that is MUCH easier to market and sell.
Who has a tougher time selling out a game? The Cleveland Browns with a 8 game home schedule that’s almost exclusively played on the weekends thus making it a destination event or the Cleveland Indians that have 81 home games including the all so exciting Mon-Thu series vs the KC Royals?
c) The NbA can market a team around 1 or 2 star players per team. Not possible in the mlb. You know what a team with 2 good players is called in the majors? The Seattle Mariners (Felix and Ichiro).
It’s an apple and oranges comparison and to insists that a salary cap would work the same way w/o overhauling the entire system is stupid, even then it wouldn’t work like you think and MUST come with a salary floor AND probably the contraction of at least 4 teams where baseball wouldn’t be viable under the needed changes.
I think it would be GREAT if MLB contracts weren’t guaranteed and if players faced cuts the way the NFL cuts players at the beginning of the season. Unfortunately, the MLBPA would NEVER let that happen. To me it’s pretty unbelievable that Selig and the MLB as a whole doesn’t see a problem with these massive, unmovable contracts that guarantee players money even with repeated trips to the DL, if they choose to basically not do the work anymore, or for a bad attitude and diva-like demands. I’m not anti-union by any means but it surprises me that Selig lets the teams get away with these clearly player-friendly contracts that end up hampering teams financially and that are impossible to get out of. Can you think of any other industry that would tolerate unmovable employee contracts?
bang on: the ENTIRE difference is guaranteed contracts.
one big-buck contract that goes south all but kills a small team. the big teams can write it off. the nature of baseball is it takes so long for (most) players to develop. football is a coach’s game. you can slot various levels of talent into your X’s and O’s. if you have a a particular spot or need that can put you over, give him the big bonus and go for it.
Pats haven’t won a Superbowl since 2005 and this year, the Lions and Bills are 3-0.
But the Pats win consistently on a year to year basis. The Bill and Lions – by in large – have not. There are perennial contenders, there are perennial goats. The cap doesn’t really matter.
And if you’re going to use the number of teams that have won/played for championships since 2001, it’s been roughly the same in both leagues regardless of salary cap. My point is that a salary cap isn’t magically going to prevent the Pirates (of any horrendously lousy team) from making bad decisions. Sure, big market teams have more leeway to make bad decisions, but most good teams that are big market teams don’t. The Mets and Cubs find remarkable ways to not get the job done nearly every year despite plenty of money to throw around.
to borrow one of the stats-geeks fave sayings: “small sample size”
I really don’t see Epstein leaving. Boston has deeper pockets than the Cubs and not to mention, they don’t have to let Theo go since he’s under contract. As for the next manager, LaRussa would be a hell of a pick up and almost undoubtedly that would mean Dave Duncan also. Anyways, probably will not happen but I hope they find the right guy like they did 8 years ago with Tito. I’m still devistated he is gone.
grady little is available….
…and he’ll still be available after this offseason too.
hopefully, haha. It was sarcasm BTW haha
Truth be told – the guy I’d like to see would be Eric Wedge ideally. I think personality wise he seems like a good fit for this team, could probably handle the media well and be a good fit with management. Of course, the M’s would have to let the Red Sox talk to him, but he’d be my pick in an ideal world.
and he’s played in Boston so he already knows the environment and the park from a player’s perspective.
And there is no way in hell Seattle will give him up 🙂
Need a new voice after 8 years and another new voice after ten years. Theo to the Cubs….great idea. I’ll pray for him and have a beer.
Epstein to the Cubs, Lackey to the NL for anything that breathes, Papi for 1 year, Papelbon back ASAP, Lavarnway as STARTING catcher, Youk at 3B, Iglesias/Lowerie/Scutaro SS, Middlebrooks late year call up, Aceves as long man/8th inning, Bard 7th inning
BYE, BYE to Wakefield, Varitek, Drew
you really want to carry 3 shortstops on your roster? Also, Iglesias was projected to be their next SS opening day 2012, yes, but he didn’t put up the numbers this year in AAA to justify that promotion – a .235 BA. He’ll be AAAing it next year.
we haven’t seen enough of Lavarnway as a catcher to give him the starting role yet. He’s caught how many major league games so far? The thing I like about Salty is that his performance behind the plate did improve significantly over the year and he was throwing out runners stealing at the MLB average rate.
Lowerie is more insurance for Youkilis, who has been injured, with Middlebrooks as the late season call up.
I know Iglesias’ #’s offensively don’t justify it, but he could be called up AS time, so you really aren’t carrying all 3 all at once.
Lavarnway and Salty maybe, but Lavarnway has grown exponentially behind the dish, can put up more offense and has adjusted to every level he is “thrown” into, high baseball IQ and a workhorse.
Tek & Wake are done though like I said.
Again, Lavarnway = small sample size. You’re basing this on the last week of the season?
I have been following Lavarnway’s career since right after Yale. Don’t insult me. The kid is a gamer, cerebral and adjusts to each level he has played at. He rises to the occasion and was not effected by the yo-yo effect of going up and down this year. Do your homework, bro.
Nodoby’s insulting you dude, minor league success doesn’t always translate to major league success, so until he does it for a longer time in the majors it is a small sample size.
true on the sample size at majors, but what do you propose – surely not keeping Tek & Salty?!
Get rid of Tek, keep Salty & Lavarnway.
No certainly not. I’d probably go with Salty and Lavarnway too. I could potentially see them getting a different veteran backup and starting Lavarnway in AAA, or possibly part of a DH platoon and 3rd catcher.
No wakamatsu
Well if Gammons is saying Theo is interested in joining the Cubs organization, then he is definitely not going anywhere. I pretty take anything that bag of air says and believe the opposite. 9 times out of ten it turns out I’m right. I honestly don’t understand why anybody even listens to that guy.
Check out my take on the Red Sox at http://thebestsoxblog.mlblogs.com
Nice plug, Tommy. I checked it out. I wholeheartedly disagree with your take on Victor Martinez, which I noted in my comment.
It is time for a new Era for Chicago Cubs baseball since the last 100 plus years of barely competing, and 0 championships, we need to do all we can to get GM Theo Epstein to Chicago, so he can bring us some championships. He is the best candidate out there and I think if we compensate him very well and are granted permission to interview him, Boston will let him go and Cherrington can be the Red Sox GM and both teams can be happy with that decision. He did everything he could in Boston now he can be immortalized in two towns. Please Theo we need your help you can turn this franchise into a WS champs, we have the money and the yoiung talent to build around.
how awesome would it be for the Red Sox to pull Joe Torre from his job in the commissioner’s office and put on a Red Sox uniform?
Some of you people kill me with all this nonsense that you post. Look, I am not here to say I know everything because I certainly don’t. We don’t know what goes on inside of that clubhouse. In fact, we don’t know pretty much anything when it comes to that type of stuff. There is always more to the story than what we hear. Francona did a hell of a job while he was in Boston. He did a lot for the franchise. But after 8 seasons with a team and after the major collapse that they went through, perhaps it was time for him to go. Like he said, the team needs a new voice.
Next, I kind of like the idea of bringing the Rooster Rick Burleson in as the new skipper. I looked him up and he has big league coaching experience with the Angels and Red Sox and he has been managing in the minors since like 1997, winning at every level from rookie ball to AAA. He was a fan favorite while he was here during his playing days and had that fiery, hard nosed, hard ass attitude and mentality. Seems like a real baseball mind too. I am tired of hearing Bobby Valentine’s name. The guy hasn’t managed in years and he’s a clown anyway. Also, why Ryne Sandberg??? What has he done? Seems like Burleson has done just as much, if not more and he is a former Red Sox player.
Finally, whoever is saying to trade Crawford has lost it. Sure, the guy had a down year. And I understand your frustrations especially after the contract he signed. But the guy is a good player and to give up on him and ship him out after one season is ridiculous! And whomever said to trade him for Dunn is a complete idiot. Now, I understand the possibility of trading Lackey. It’s been made known that he isn’t having a very good time in Boston and he definitely isn’t performing well on the field. However, what the heck are they going to get for him? The only way they can trade him is if they trade him for another bad contract guy (ie Barry Zito) or trade him for next to nothing and eat most of that contract.
That’s all I got. My rant is over.
I’m confused by your Lackey rant. First, you say that whoever suggested the Sox trade him for Dunn is a “complete idiot”. Last I checked, Dunn is/was a good hitter having a terrible downturn of a year. So his value is pretty low. Then, you ask who would they get for Lackey – and suggest they could only trade him for “next to nothing”. So how is Dunn an idiotic suggestion considering that his trade value is equally low? Seems to me it’s better than “next to nothing”.