11:56am: There's some discussion as to whether the Red Sox will obtain minor leaguers or cash from the Cubs, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (on Twitter). It appears that the Red Sox prefer cash.
10:00am: The Cubs' overall payout to Epstein will be closer to $20MM than $15MM, because they're responsible for paying a $3.5MM conclusion bonus that he had negotiated into his contract with the Red Sox, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney. MLB has monitored the Cubs' negotiations with Epstein, since there's concern that his deal will change the market for general managers. Epstein's salary will be similar to the one the Red Sox paid him, Olney notes (on Twitter). He was the Cubs' first choice and has met with them twice.
8:13am: Theo Epstein has agreed on a five-year deal worth more than $15MM with the Cubs, according to WEEI's John Dennis. The deal could be finalized this week, once the teams work out compensation and the Cubs decide on a title for the longtime Red Sox GM.
The Cubs were "on the cusp" of a deal with Epstein last night, but Boston's ownership still appeared interested in retaining Epstein. However, Jon Heyman of SI.com hears that Red Sox owner John Henry isn't the type to "chase" if he knows someone wants to leave (Twitter link).
The Cubs won't surrender Major League players or take on bad contracts in the deal, but they may send prospects and/or cash to the Red Sox. It appears that Epstein will need Boston's approval to bring employees with him.
Ben Cherington, Epstein's current assistant GM and likely replacement, spoke to MLBTR for our GM Candidates series. Alex Speier of WEEI.com chronicles Cherington's rise through Boston's organization.
YES!!!!!!!!
If he brings a title to Chicago, he will go down as the greatest to ever do it.
The greatest Executive in Sports history
Now that may be a bit of hyperbole, but there is no denying that he would be an all-time legend if he adds the end of the Cubs streak to his resume as well.
Dude, ending the Red Sox and the Cubs streaks? No one can match that feat…
I don’t care for either team and normally I don’t think winning when one has access to some of the greatest number of resources is that big of a deal, but to do it twice with star crossed franchises is pretty undeniable.
Imagine if he does it with the Cubs and then goes to Cleveland?
LMAO, now that would be something….
And signs Charlie Sheen as pitcher. Winning!
Actually signing any good player out of a prison league would be impressive enough.
Look up Ron LeFlore.
Bringing a title to the Chicago Cubs? – the only competition was over a hundred years ago – good chance he’ll be the greatest.
You gotta love a guy who is willing to take on another “impossible” challenge (although in reality he’s already got quite a legacy and does not have much to lose).
I like it!
Cubs fans are happy because they’re finally winning something in October
Oh snap!
Amazing how the Red Sox’s offseason changed so fast…
totally. I’d love to get in a time machine to go back to August 30th and just TRY to convince someone that by October 12th Theo & Francona would be gone and the playoffs included the Rays not the Sox.
It would be easier to bring a dinosaur to the future and teach it to play piano on that giant keyboard at FAO Schwartz.
Depends on how big the dinosaur’s feet are I would imagine.
John Hammond brought you the dinosaur, so the rest should be easy.
Changed from what?
…and how quickly Theology has gained in popularity in Chicago.
Changed about as fast as that collapse….
HUZZAH!!
The only reason Henry and Co. let Theo walk was because of how highly they regard Cherington.
what now guy
I have 1 thing to say ……………………………………………. I told ya so!
Don’t forget the GM factory they have already produced the last few seasons, not to mention Epstein himself was a protege of Kevin Towers himself. Must be the style.
Just wish they could have forced lackey onto the Cubs, yet another Cubs tye contract, or made them swap lackey for Garza…
Or how much they really don’t want to keep someone who doesn’t want to stay.
I said it yesterday but it befuddles me how ppl who don’t want Theo want Cherington when he clearly learned from Theo and was groomed by him.
go cubs
Wow, what a shift between last offseason and this one, especially considering the team still won 90 games. Crazy what a difference one bad month can make.
I am absolutely stunned by the implosion. First the team, now management. Two months ago the toast of the town. Now…
What an ugly end to one of the best regimes this team has seen. Good luck Theo.
True, except that it is quite possible that there was much more going on behind the scenes all along and we just didn’t get to see it until the Sox hit the fan.
Oh, I agree. I also think this sort of stuff has been going on for some time. If you really think about it, it’s got to go back to the Carl Everett days, at least. Then Manny. Why should this current batch surprise us? Just keeping the tradition of having clubhouse sh*theads alive. This group just managed to bring a little more panache to it and extended the damage a bit further.
Damn. Well with Tito gone, and now Theo gone too, lets just go into full rebuild mode. Sod it. Build around Pedroia, Ellsbury and Gonzo.
Congrats to the Cubbies. If there is ever a guy who can break your curse, this is him. Imagine if he becomes the man who helps break both the Sox and the Cubs drought? Wow.
Really? Rebuild one of the best lineups in baseball??
And how exactly do you even do that? You plan on TRADING Crawford, at his lowest value and with that contract? Ha.
The lineup is too good to just implode things. And trying to build around those guys would be nice, IF they had the farm system the Rays had and knew a bunch of kids would be ready in a year or two, but they just don’t. They have an average system, and trying to rebuild like that will take more than 2-3 years.
All Boston needs to do right now is find their new hires, get a manager who can drill some discipline into this crew, make minor tweaks offensively and overhaul the rotation. Make Kalish and Reddick duke it out for right field (maybe even have them be a R/L platoon!), keep Mike Aviles for utility, drop Varitek to give Lavarnway the 1/3 playing time that V-Tek got this year, pick up Scutaro’s option, and maybe bring in some bench depth. Then for the rotation, Beckett, Lester and Buchholz are all relatively solid, assuming they stay healthy. The trick will be seeing either how they can minimize the damage Lackey will bring with him, or seeing if ANYONE would risk trading for him. Either way, I think they’re gonna stretch Aceves out in ST to give him a shot at winning that 5th spot, and then they either go all-out for Wilson or (gasp) Sabathia, or they try and find a more reasonable 4th starter option. Even if Lackey stays, that way he’s regulated to spot starter duty until he can prove he can pitch better than that, at which point they can put Aceves back in the bullpen.
LF: Crawford
CF: Ellsbury
RF: Kalish/Reddick
3B: Youkilis
SS: Scutaro
2B: Pedroia
1B: Gonzalez
C: Saltalamacchia/Lavarnway (well that’s a mouthful)
U: Aviles
1. Lester
2. Beckett (or Sabathia/Wilson if they go all-in)
3. Buchholz
4. maybe resign Bedard
5. Aceves/Miller (oh god)/Tazawa/Doubront
Bullpen:
Papelbon (gotta resign him)
Bard
Jenks
and then cobble something together with in-house and FA options. Not too worried about creating a new bullpen every year, that’s usually the safest option anyway.
You could trade Youk and bring up Middlebrooks… that’s one way… but the best option is probably just to put Youk at DH and let him swap out at 1st/3rd. Or you could put that kid Lavarnway (?) at DH when he’s not catching.
I agree, no real reason to dump the line up.
Yeah I don’t understand the whole “Rebuild” concept. I don’t know of a single team in baseball who wouldn’t take the Red Sox lineup right now, so why blow it up completely?
What they do need to do, though, is trade Ellsbury while his stock is so high, especially because it’s now come out that he only has one guy in the clubhouse (Lowrie) that he feels he can get along with and trust. Hello, Red Flag. Ellsbury will almost certainly be gone when he hits FA, so why not get as much back as you can for the guy?
Use him in a 3-team trade for Felix. Use him in a deal with the Angels for a guy like Dan Haren (Both Haren and Ellsbury have contracts through 2013, so neither would be a “rental”). Go sign a guy like David DeJesus (high OBP guy) to be your leadoff hitter if you don’t want to use Crawford in that aspect.
There are an abundance of options to replace Ellsbury, but selling high on him now and getting an elite SP in return (even if it means tacking on prospects to the deal, which it will) is the way to go.
Sorry I was being (mostly) sarcastic.
It is clear though that Youk is going to have to DH in the near future, so really there’s only one spot for him and Papi. They could trade Youk for some pitching, because lets face it, they need a 3/4 starter to bolster the rotation. I like the idea of getting Matt Garza. If they have the belief that Middlebrooks could contribute after maybe a year in Pawtucket, then they’d need to then find a stop gap 3B.
The farm system is fine. The reason it looks weak at the top end is a result of the success in the last couple of years of prospects graduating and now being in the bigs, and the fact that the strength of the system is in the low minors.
The Cubs need starting pitching almost as badly as the BoSox do. I do not see a You for Garza trade working out…
Very true, however, unless the Cubs sign him to an extension, he could be long gone by the time the Cubs are ready to compete again.
The train of thought of those who want to trade him is get a few high end prospects that will be ready to roll in the 2014 season.
well i don’t see how you can have a “L/R platoon” when both players are lefty hitters.
That being said, I don’t think either of them are going to get the chance to be everyday players b/c they are lefty hitters in a lefty heavy lineup. What the sox need to do is find a right handed hitting full time RF. i don’t know who, and i don’t know how; but Kalish and/or Reddick aren’t your answers there.
Whoops, my bad. Had it in my head that Kalish was right-handed for some reason.
I still think Kalish/Reddick get to duke it out for RF. Boston proved this year they needn’t be too concerned about the left-heavy lineup; players like Ells, Ortiz and Gonzo had great numbers against lefties, and we beat up on the big guys we were supposed to lose to, CC for example. Again, any lineup flaws seem to be minor ones right now, and personally I’d be uncomfortable to trade away one of those two kids unless they got a -great- return, and it would make little sense to stick them in AAA indefinitely. Kalish can’t go anywhere with his stock being pretty low, but maybe someone will bite for Reddick. But unless Boston can get some solid pitching out of it, I would prefer to see them stay and both get chances to prove themselves in the big leagues.
Either sarcastic or the basic reason why the Sox fan base is not well respected.
your trolling abilities are amazing
Keep coming at me bud. I stated my opinion he stated his. If you can’t talk openly about sports then where can you?
This is an area for fans to talk sports, not to sit around and practice their manners. If you don’t like it, go back to your One Tree Hill message board and leave me alone.
EDIT: Also let me add that I respect a ton of Sox fans on these boards. Its section that gets the bad reputation, hurting the reputation of the fan base as a whole.
Gee thanks for pointing out “This is an area for fans to talk sports” i could have sworn this was a seminar on Women Revolutionaries in 19th Century Russia. I’d go on but its entirely too late for this. Ill leave you to troll on my friend.
think anyone will believe my real name is theo?
Why are you holding out on us- we know it’s you. Dish all the dirt now.
Looks like John Dennis got Theo’s 1040 a year early.
I think you meant W-2
I think he meant WD-40.
One of the reasons that professional sports is so incredible. Think about if the Redsox had one more win this season, would any of this had happened? 1 win, a .6172% difference could have created a completely different history for 2 people. Unfortunately though, last I checked Theo does not have incredible magic powers so even he wont be able to break the 100 years of complete loser history of the SCRUBS!
Theo would likely still leave, because the Cubs would still offer him the contract, and John Henry would still not force Theo to stay if he didn’t want to. Francona might not have left, though.
not necessarily, the cubs need a GM pretty soon and if the sox were still in the playoffs they wouldn’t have been able to talk to eps.
I figure if the Cubs were so enamoured in Epstein that they were willing to give him five years out of the gate and potentially give up compensation for him, they probably would’ve been willing to wait a few weeks.
and begin the offseason with no Gm?
perhaps i guess, however they might not have thought he was available had the team he put together made the playoffs and got to the world series
they played the entire season w/o a gm, manager, or pitching coach
lol
Agreed with Sam. This one looks like it was apparently an innevitability. Tito leaving would almost certainly not have happened, but the Cubs would’ve offered this opportunity regardless of the Sox’ collapse. It’s an outside shot that Epstein may not have been interested had the Sox made the playoffs, but it probably would’ve still happened, just a bit later.
I get the hint that there is/was still power play going on now with the change between Epstein and Luccino. Guess it really never did go away after all.
…and Ned Colletti weeps.
Considering the proposed likelihood of this scenario occuring, I’m now going to start operating under the delusion that Luchhino gets pushed out, Cherrington takes his place and we end up luring AA or Friedman away.
A guy can dream, right? I mean, this absolute nightmare I seem to be stuck in can’t go on forever.
Heh, I’m with you in dreamland. I’d love to see what Friedman can do with a larger budget. But realistically my guess is they’ll name Cherrington as GM pretty quickly, probably before the end of the World Series.
A nightmare? While I agree that sounds amazing, the current likelihood of Cherington becoming GM doesn’t sound -bad-. Things generally have still been going pretty well, no need to go into panic mode. 😛
Until the boat stops rocking, I’m calling it a nightmare. I’m a big fan of both Epstein and Francona. It’s hard to call the last month and a half anything but an unmitigated disaster as a Sox fan.
I’m willing to give Cherrington a chance if he’s made full time GM, but this is an absolute disaster so far. A lot of it also depends on who Epstein manages to bring with him. If anyone from his player development team goes with him, we’re boned.
I see what you mean by nightmare; I just mean there is still a lot of positive stuff to work with, and once we get our new GM/manager, I’ll be excited to see what happens this year, because it really shouldn’t take too much to go from a 90 win season this year to a 95-100 win season in 2012. And I’m a huge Francona/Epstein fan too. That’s part of why I’d be very excited to see Cherington take over, as he’d be the most likely candidate to continue Epstein’s managing style, and probably have the best chance at retaining most of the front office staff. I’m just worried that if we brought someone new in for that job that maybe Cherington would start looking towards maybe the Orioles open position, and we might end up losing both of them. Plus, with someone new, Epstein may have better luck coaxing other parts of the staff away, as the new GM won’t have a rapport with them yet.
However, if the new GM is somehow AA or Friedman, I take all that back. Let them do whatever. But generally, I’m not too concerned with Cherington taking over; it would make me nervous if they were clear on -not- giving him the job, because then I would be unsatisfied unless they made a huge move like getting Friedman.
I’m more concerned about the manager position, simply because of these reports coming out of players not taking good care of themselves, not getting along, etc. I would love to see a Kirk Gibson kind of character take the job, and go Drill Sergeant on the players for a while. Either that or someone like Dave Martinez, who can bring a lot of excitement and unconventional thinking thanks to working with Maddon.
Basically, while I see there is a lot of cause for concern after losing Epstein and Francona, I think there is a lot of exciting possibility here. We just gotta wait and see who gets these two jobs first, though.
Like a few others here, I’m just amazed at how fast it went sour. Two months ago one was left wondering how long they’re going to lock them both up, even if they fell eventually short of a 3rd title. The speed at which the unfathomable has happened is astounding.
Oh well.
Good luck Theo. Thanks for your hand in 2 World Series titles and everything else. Good luck in bringing a title to Cubs and becoming a legend.
Well done. Thank was a class statement. Some Sox fans are trashing Theo. I suspect more because he is leaving, not because they really dislike his hand in the titles. Although, every GM has people who dislike them and Theo is no different.
The Sox completely blew it this year, but they are in good hands to return. Theo leaving is not a dismantle of the organization by no means. My Cubs are in a sorry state and Epstein has work to do. The Red Sox will bounce back and contend, no problem.
I still go back to the argument that without him the Sox would probably still be waiting for a World Series win. The organization flourished under the leadership of both Theo and Tito and while it’s sad to see them go I’d much rather remember them both as what I have seen them as for years, as great Red Sox leaders who will hopefully be one day enshrined in the Red Sox HOF.
The fact is both are leaving on their own terms and accomplished a great deal.
oh god
Not the GM I was looking for, but 2 titles in 9 years with Red Sox is enough to sell me. I just don’t want the “Red Sox” name attached and linked to every free agent signing and trade he makes.
So how do you think Mike Quade’s morning is going?
Still curious to see if Theo hires a GM too or if he’s filling both roles.
My guess is Quade woke up still trying to get Hill and Grabow in the game today, even though the season is long over.
Seriously, he knew his fate the day it was announced Hendry was gone. Quade will get paid next year regardless. One year with him at the helm seemed like seven or more. Like many, I just could not take another year of it.
And the rest of the AL East GM’s hold hands singing Kumbaya.
The Cubs gained so much just by firing Hendry. I don’t think Theo’s all that great. Certainly a good GM, but vastly overrated IMO.
A good hire to be sure, but it’ll be overblown.
What he brings is an organizational philosophy that includes valuing advanced metrics, something that Hendry disdained. And he understands the need to have a philosophy that permeates throughout the entire org. Hendry wanted to win, but he flew by the seat of his pants far too often and didn’t have a plan.
Since when does John Dennis report things? Anyway, good for Theo. If I were him I’d get the hell out of this city as well. Things are a mess, and I don’t mean that in a talent stand point, I mean about the article that just came out. Beckett, Lester, Lackey in the clubhouse drinking beer and eating chicken during a game. It’s amazing. Good for Theo, I’m gutted to see him leave but I don’t blame him.
Can we put that whole thing to rest? Who here does NOT drink beer? Forgot the 04 season already when they were taking shots of Jack Daniels to keep warm? They are grown men, let them drink a few beers, who are you their mothers?
They’re athletes who get paid dollars that you and I can only dream of. The least they can do is not drink during a damn game. What they do afterwards I can careless. I just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Sox fans already in panic mode. I am wondering how bad the fan-base will really get.
You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.
What’s with all the hate dude? Chill.
Ha! You call that hate? You should hear him talk about the Yanks, which he hates just as much as the Sox. He’s an Orioles fan.
I was referring to the hate in general. Never anything positive from the russian bunny.
His spirits should be lifted soon. I heard Smirnoff is coming out with a carrot-flavored vodka.
Its not hate. I think the Red Sox fan base is panicking. You chose this, out of every comment I’ve ever made to comment on?
Hey man, nice sweater!
Then he should be happy Dandy Andy stepped down.
If I was an Orioles fan I’d be pissed too.
No, you are off on this. I hate the Yankees far more than the Red Sox.
I didn’t want to see Theo go, far from it actually, but I don’t feel panic at all. Actually it’s kind of liberating, in a “I just lost my job and have no idea how it’s going to turn out” kind of way. I’m still upset about Theo and Tito going (and the way it all happened), but I’m excited to see what the next chapter brings.
What’s great about this is that the hitting coach, director of player personnel and
minor league director are all in place. All Theo needs is a head coach, pitching coach and bench coach.
good move….now i wanna know when theo is gonna fire quade and hire sandburg! best move he can make!
Based on what managerial experience? A AAA team with a good record?
Yeah, and the fact that he is revered in Chicago and will garner respect from the players.
Who’s Sandburg?
Here’s to hoping he brings in Ryne Sandberg!
wouldnt it be something if Billy Beane ended up in boston this time around, especially after the moneyball ending
Beane is a part-owner of the A’s, no chance in hell he sells his share of a MLB team to take a job somewhere else. He probably makes more money off his ownership share than he could ever make as a GM/non-safe position.
Just sign Prince, Theo. Just sign Prince.
Epstein’s practically a guarantee that Fielder won’t be signed. The dude’s body is a huge question mark going forward for an NL team. If he went somewhere like the Angels, maybe, but Epstein won’t touch Fielder.
He may aggressively pursue Pujols, though.
I don’t get this. Fielder has been one of the more durable players in MLB since his debut. I just don’t understand how people are so sure he’ll so suddenly break down. And…Pujols would be a better fit? The guy who has been dealing w/ a plethora of nagging injuries over the last few years and is currently 31? Oy vey.
It’s not his injury history that’s the concern, it’s his body type.
Look at guys like mo Vaughn and (Of late) Ryan Howard. Both similar body types, both had major troubles in their thirties. In regards to Pujols’ nagging injuries, the dude missed less than half a month this year and still managed to OPS over .900 in what many consider a down year for him. All things being equal, if they end up costing around the same in dollars and years, most people would probably pick Pujols.
Well, when Soriano was signed, there were more than a few who considered it a good signing solely b/c of his body type. Unlike the typical power hitter, Sori is built like a greyhound instead of a big, hulking Great Dane. 8 years didn’t seem “extra” at the time, regardless of the fact he was what, 29, 30 at the time of the signing?. And we all know what happened to Sori as soon as he put on that Cubs uni. I get your point, but I don’t know if I’d completely write off Fielder as another Vaughn or even Howard. If Pujols is willing to sign something 5 years or less, I guess I’d be fine with that, though.
Well, you’re not wrong. There’s no such thing as a guarantee of health for a player (other than eventual death, one supposes), whether it’s a guarantee a player will stay healthy or a guarantee he’ll get injured. Anybody can get injured, in any time and in any way.
But there are risk factors. Even adding a little bit of weight to a body is a massive additional load on the knees, among other areas, which is absolutely, undeniably a higher risk of not only injury (ie, something breaks or tears) but simply degraded performance. Alfonso Soriano, to hear him tell it, is currently healthy; have you even seen him attempt a steal anymore, a guy who used to swipe dozens? No, it’s not a guarantee of a problem, but it’s a strong possibility. When you’re about to unload a contract with nine figures in it, every additional risk factor should be considered. The Cubs have been burned once by a guy who didn’t have the kind of risk factors that Prince Fielder does. I’m not saying it’s a 100% bad idea, but it needs to be a significant factor.
Moreover, the Cubs simply are not contenders next year. Even if Ricketts just handed over the checkbook and said “do whatever,” the amount and kind of talent the Cubs need is not available — in ANY amount of risk on a deal. They could throw tons of bad money after CJ Wilson, and they would still need an ace-caliber pitcher. Even if they sign Fielder or Pujols, and bring back Ramirez, you’re talking about a year of moving from below average to slightly above average offense. In other words, you’re amplifying the risk of a Fielder/Pujols signing by using what is likely to be one of their healthier years to no effect. The Cubs would need two years of SIGNIFICANT spending just to get them back into real contention, and quite frankly I think they’re going to go in the opposite direction; it’s certainly what Ricketts has been preaching, and it’s the kind of thing that Theo is strong at.
Honestly though, this is all moot because we have no idea what’s about to happen. I except Theo to come in and toss a few trades around, and we have no idea who will be left standing and which prospects will be in the organization when the dust settles. Who knows if first will even be a major source in need of updating. If it is, maybe he takes a stab. Maybe everything settles in and it turns out third base is a bigger concern. We just don’t know.
Ah, but what about Matt Stairs? He was still playing into his 40’s.
I am confused by all the Freidman love. He’s a great exec, don’t get me wrong. However give him a monster budget and mistakes would be made.
With a 50 Million dollar payroll, you can’t make a 60 million dollar mistake. You have to sign guys on the cheap. When one of them turns in a great season, the feeling is what a great signing.
With a 200 Million dollar payroll your not looking for a bargin, that will play beyond his salary. Your going after the Crawfords of the world. When the Crawfords of the world, suck butt….well you have a terrible signing.
Cubs fans should rejoice. There is a good possibility that in 5 years the Cubbies are one of the best franchises in baseball.
“He’s a great exec, don’t get me wrong. However give him a monster budget and mistakes would be made. ”
This is true of ANY exec. I love Theo, but even he had his big ticket flubs. That said, Friedman runs a player development machine that’s second to none and he’s managed to dominate multiple trades in his tenure. He’s also been able to squeeze the most possible out of free agency on a limited budget. Sure, they haven’t won it all yet, but it’s starting to look like a matter of time.
This is the reason I preferred Friedman over Theo. As currently built, the Cubs aren’t close to contending for a title. I’m young; I can wait a few years to see success.
Fortunately for you, he’s signed for five years. He’s got time to implement a turnaround. Also, frankly speaking, I wouldn’t have said the Sox were much of any closer in 2002, but he had them a few outs from theWS in 2003 and winning in 2004. He’s only got the two albatrosses and one of them’s gone in a year. Soriano’s a huge problem and he’ll probably just eat that deal if he can, but you’re down to $28 million committed to 2013 and that’s including Soriano’s $19 million. That’s a lot of room to play around.
You think the 2002 BoSox and 2011 Cubs were equals? I don’t. This current Cubs team isn’t a Schilling or Big Papi away from winning a title.
Neither were the Sox. They were a Bellhorn, Mueller, Millar, Arroyo, Cabrera, Foulke, Mink-remainderofthealphabet and more away.
There was a ton of turnover in the Sox between 2002 and 2004. The Cubs are a bit further away than the Sox were, but I think you’re underestimating how far away the Sox were before Epstein.
Oh, I know the BoSox weren’t on the cusp of anything major, but this is a Cubs team mostly relying heavily on a 21 year-old, growing SS, Garza, and a starter (Cashner) who made exactly one start this season to propel them forward. Theo (no Huxtable), you’re welcome.
The “Duke” was the absolute king of scrap heap player finder. he was always digging around for those Reggie Jefferson, Troy O’Leary, Darren Bragg types and sticking them in the lineup that nobody else would touch and expecting them to produce long after their wheels had fallen off, yet he cut ties with some guys, like Mike greenwell when he could actually play at above league average.
There ya go Henry.. Bring back “The Duke” and drive all the Sox fans wild again…
Yeah but the FOUNDATION of what makes the Rays what they are was built off of great early 1st round selections. Longo, Upton, Young (Garza) and Price were all top 6 picks. They DO a good job with their 2nd and 3rd rnd picks too but they certainly rely on having multiple early rnd picks as a result of trades for stars and comp selections. That’s not really a long term way of building and SUSTAINING a winner.
Just a fyi, rays didnt draft garza the twins did.
Friedman’s also the artist of the most team-friendly contract in baseball history… Evan Longoria. Stamp that on his resume.
For the sake of playing Devil’s Advocate, that contract had some sizable risk attached with it at the time. He was extending a guy who’d been active in the MLB for like a week and guaranteeing him around $15 million.
Still, a brilliant manuever. The risk was overall minimal considering his upside and at worst, the most it would cost them in a year if he was a bust was $6 million.
so really…. an exceptional move lol
John DiRienzo or soxfan0928
What do you have to say now about our discussion the other day.
Theo leaving doesn’t validate your argument. You were saying he was going to get fired either way and there’s absolutely no evidence of that. Indications are contrary to that in that everyone was reporting that Henry was putting in an effort to keep him. Heck, it’s right up top for those competent enough to scroll:
“The Cubs were “on the cusp” of a deal with Epstein last night, but Boston’s ownership still appeared interested in retaining Epstein. “
He would have been fired if the cubs and angels had a GM in place when tito got fired.
There is little evidence that he would be fired in what you can read here but there was more info than what you can read here at MLBTR.
Try to have a good day Obsessions.
Who needs facts when you’ve got baseless conjecture, right?
Still waiting for your source that he would have been fired. Considering actual reporters reported the complete opposite, we’ll just assume you are as clueless as you appear to be.
Dude I dont need to tell you squat.
Just remember I told you first.
You didn’t tell anyone anything.
Actually, the Boston Herald told us first. You probably weren’t even the first crazy to come in here spouting an unlikely scenario that happened to turn out in a vaguely similar manner.
He didn’t get fired, he took a new job offer. Boston still wanted him to stay.
“He didn’t get fired, he took a new job offer.”
I agree theo epstein did not get fired and he did accept a potential promotion atleast in the possibility of title goes. I still believe that you are looking threw the smoke that J Henry and co let out to try to fool a new team interested in hiring theo to compensate them for someone that they were interested in firing anyway despite what you read here or at yahoo.
Think about it they didnt put up much of a fight to keep theo and they didnt ask for the best prospect that the cubs had and they didnt try to “saddle ” the cubs with a lackey like contract either. They wanted cash money from ricketts and that is ok.
Oh, so then this news doesn’t actually prove or validate anything you said before. You just want to pretend it did so you can keep living out this fantasy that you know stuff about things.
whatever guy
Is that an admission that you don’t know what you’re talking about?
what do i have to say?
nothing, outside of the fact that you are not a normal person. normal people don’t go out of their way to dig through old threads (MULTIPLE TIMES, by the way) for names they can’t spell (mine) just to brag. normal people also don’t brag when it is unwarranted or when they were incorrect.
honestly, i pity you. i truly do. you come online for the approval of a bunch of random people you will never know. people who also probably pity you, because this gloating and jabbing has gone from beyond pathetic into worrisome
but hey, if you want to believe that “Theo is getting fired and will yield no compensation” = “Theo receives promotion, Sox receive compensation” then i guess there really isn’t anything else we can do for you and i advise you to seek counseling
Just as a tidbit, and this joker never once mentioned this, a promotion to President of Baseball Operations might keep the Cubs from having to compensate the Red Sox. Apparently MLB has been all over this. Still seems likely that the Red Sox will receive compensation, but if they don’t it’s for a very specific reason that MLB has enacted based on their research. gunsandnascar has no knowledge of that research.
Hell, he doesn’t even have knowledge of the word “and”…
Would you please stop? I don’t care if you’re right or wrong. Stop hijacking threads for your self-congratulatory back-patting.
Guess who Theo tried to get to coach AAA for Boston last year? SANDBERG! From all accounts Theo is a huge Sandberg fan and Theo wanted him to be next in line if Terry Francona ever left. can you imagine the excitement if Theo was GM and Sandberg was coach along with one of the beat hitting coaches and one of the men responsible for the young talent in TB?
Now he needs to resign Wilkens as Scouting Director or other Front Office position. Bring in Sandberg. Make a play for Darvish or another starting pitcher. Sit through next year, it will be rough, then make a huge splash for the 2013 season. Lots of talent in that class.
If you had told me before the trade deadline (before it was known that Hendry had been fired) that the Cubs would be going into the offseason with Theo Epstein in control I would have been ecstatic. Make no mistake, I am extremely happy with this development but there is a nagging voice in the back of my head screaming John Lackey, DiceK, Julio Lugo, Carl Crawford, Eric Gagne…… I’m sure Theo isn’t solely responsible for those contracts, and there’s still time to get some value out of a few of them, but after seeing Tim’s piece on the pitching staffs Theo has put together I’m not completely convinced that the second coming or the Cubs savior. He’s a heck of a lot better than we had but he’s not infallible. I really hope he builds a brain trust in the Cubs front office similar to what he had on Boston and puts them to work on fixing this team permanently. Well done Mr. Ricketts, now get ready to spend on payroll and put the Cubs over the top.
You sir, really are a cub fan. Lets at least let the man make his first mistake while wearing a cubs hat before we jump all over him.
Lol. Don’t get me wrong, I’m very happy with the move. It’s just that when a change like this happens, even though you know it’s going to be better than it was, you’re still seeing the new guy warts and all. Any failures Theo may have had with Boston didn’t really mean much to me but now that he’s running the Cubs they have to be taken into consideration. But again, very happy. It’s a good move for the Cubs.
I was waiting to read your response to this whole thing, being the Cubs regular around here and all.
In the immortal words of the great philospher Sugar Ray Richardson-
“The ship be sinking”
sigh
History has examples of fluffy dudes like him breaking down suddenly, including his pops. I’m not convinced he will too, but that’s why they all think it.
I was dun right on the interweb! Yeeeeha!
Soooo…money. Money is what they get? Money that has absolutely zero affect toward the luxury tax or the actual advancement of the franchise. *Sigh*
Well, I guess if anyone needs me, I’ll be at the Longfellow Bridge with a cinderblock and a short length of rope.
Aw, c’mon, it can’t be that bad. Besides, I wouldn’t worry too much about replacing Theo, even if Cherrington doesn’t get the job I hear that Jim Hendry is available. So there you go, there’s that.
You’ve got your cake, I refuse to let you eat it too. Back up with that Hendry talk.
ouch…
doesn’t say that money is all they get anywhere there that I can see.
No, it doesn’t, but as yet there hasn’t been the slightest indication of what prospect compensation there may or may not have been. Considering how swiftly stuff leaks around here lately, I find the odds we got anything other than money poor at this point.
“It appears that the Red Sox prefer cash.”
UGH!
You know your farm system is average at best when a team with the second highest payroll would rather take cash than a prospect. As a Cubs fan, hopefully Theo fixes this and builds off this last draft.
*Third highest, the Phillies surpassed us this season.
I wouldn’t take that as an insult to the Cubs’ farm system.
i should be more mature than to laugh at this.. but i’m not hahahahahaa
LOL It’s fine dude. As long as they don’t resurrect Haywood Sullivan, or lou Gorman they ought to be fine ;-(
A sign of maturity is knowing when to laugh, and this is one of those times.
My best friend is a long life cubs fan and i always made fun of him for it but today I’m really happy for him because as a yankee fan i have aways respected Theo and i truly think he is going to do some good things for the cubbies. Good luck on the upcoming years
Sox fans are the worst.
you do understand that this kid has gone around, over the past three days, in three different threads, to post “i told you so” jabs over five times, right? that makes us the worst?
i’m fine with that. i’d rather talk crap when talked to than be the fool who needs to gloat and gain the approval of random people on the internet.
Okay dude, I have been won over by your rational, reasoned response.
The last couple of years I’ve watched Sox fans turn incrementally into Yankees fans just sporting different colors, the entitlement complex is the same. But hey, have fun with your trash talking!
no entitlement complex here, i don’t know why you’re randomly making things up.
this has nothing to do with my loyalty to the city i was born in. it has everything to do with someone going out of his way to bash others in several different situations when he wasn’t even correct in his own right. i admit that i went over the top with my jabs back, but honestly, it doesn’t bother me, and it shouldn’t bother you either.
just don’t be involved. he didn’t jab at you, and i didn’t jab at you either. i jabbed back at him because he wanted to get into it. again, i apologize if you hate Boston and think that i have some complex because i’m a fan of the city i was born into
I am speaking about a group entitlement process, individuals may vary.
However, as you acknowledge the over-the-topness, than you and I have no issue. I SAY GOOD DAY SIR.
yes. as i said below: when push comes to shove, i tackle
no hard feelings here. would never direct those types of shots at anybody who i didn’t feel warranted them. i have nothing but the utmost respect for pretty much everyone on these boards.
good day my friend
edit: and as for the other “entitled” fans that i’m surrounded by on a constant basis.. i hate them too.
Sweeping generalizations based on arbitrary links between a large and diverse group of people always turn out to be correct. Simply being a fan of the Red Sox, no matter any other feature of one’s personality, surely turns one into an entitled brat, I hear you.
I purposely did not get involved, but from what I read, the main debate was over whether compensation would be offered or not.
It was just two days ago. The topic’s still there, and will be. Everyone knows what he was saying.
understood. and i know that my below-the-belt responses to him will offend others. i obviously don’t want people to dislike me, but it’s not a huge priority to please others when someone is going out of his way to troll me (especially when he wasn’t even correct)
when push comes to shove, i tackle
This guy deserves all the disrespect he gets and he does think that he is entitled.
This guy deserves all the disrespect he gets and he does think that he is entitled.
Does this mean Theo really was spotted at the Starbucks in Lincoln Park? Because I spent A LOT of time making fun of that story…
DAMN!!!
This is real ugly. LMAO
Is this the only sport GM get so much attention. Who da hell is the GM of the Colts? No one knows.
Personal opinion is that GM and Managers don’t change much a team, they are the players and Hendry and Co. had badluck.
I agree w/ this, to an extent. In ’03, no one would’ve thought that Wood and Prior would go from potentially being an all-time great 1-2 to basically being non-factors for the rest of their respective careers. Hendry made some bad moves, but he definitely suffered from a bit of bad luck.
he also puts himself into situations where he can run into bad luck.
he’s the one that signed the massive contracts that had a chance to turn out badly. he’s also the one who hired Dusty Baker (IIRC, unless Dusty was around first) as manager, and Dusty ran them into the ground.
just nitpicking. i do agree that Hendry’s badness is overstated
I’m not 100% sure about that. It’s hard to know the facts because so many of the pieces in the puzzle are so silent about everything, but I’ve heard varying things about Soriano’s contract, for example — ranging from McDunagh (I’m sure that’s spelled wrong) to Crane Kenny demanding more years be added to the deal, to demanding they make the biggest possible splash in general to improve the value of the team for the sale. It’s hard to put that all on Hednry’s head. Zambrano is all on him, but let’s remember: Zambrano’s contract wil end this year and the guy will still only be 31. If you had told me when it was signed that he would have gone from an ace-quality pitcher (with control problems) to one who has lost 5+ MPH and produces ERAs in the mid 4s, I probably wouldn’t have believed you. Hendry deserves the blame, but how much is an open question.
The bottom line, though, is while I thought it was time for a change and wanted Hendry gone, I agree with both of you that his badness is overstated. If nothing else, I credit Jim Hendry for shedding the “lovable losers” tag and riling Cubs fans up about the possibility that the team could win. In some ways he is the victim of his own increased expectations.
Actually no, most other sports (Basketball, Hockey, Soccer) the GM is the largest management figure. Where Football is the anomaly, I believe the coach makes most of the roster moves and decisions, and thus has the biggest public profile.
Bill Polian? Come on, you haven’t heard that name a thousand times on ESPN?
Compensation wasnt the entire debate but whatever.
2 pump chump? ………Sweetheart?…….. Are you ever mature?
Are you bitter much?
BTW I told ya so allways remember that.
The deal could be finalized this week, once the teams work out
compensation and the Cubs decide on a title for the longtime Red Sox GM.
Everyone told you so…
are you ever mature?
haha only on the weekends.
haha. coincidentally, that’s when i find myself getting belligerent
I have read here that the red sox want money as their compensation. Not Starlin Castro not Brett Jackson not Trey McNutt not any prospects and they dont have to take Lackey despite what many obnoxious fans have posted here.
I like the redsox org. but some of their fans are retarded you know who you are just as some cubs fans are also.
44 minutes after calling someone else retarded, you post this abortion:
“Guy you dont mean crap to me. You were calling me sweetheart and 2 pump chump earlier that means a poster named JOHN calling me sweetheart is gay since you say I am a 2 pump chump aka a guy. If thats a proposition I AM NOT GAY but it sounds like you are. You wishing me to be Kid also says to me that you must be a gay pedafile as well. Go cry about losing your GM now John. Tackle that!”
HAHAH
I know it was immature of me to say that but this guy is such a dou che bag he deserves all the disrespect that he gets. He does sound gay though from his comments.
I know it was immature of me to say that but this guy is such a dou che bag he deserves all the disrespect that he gets. He does sound gay though from his comments.
Just take a look at what Epstein signed being a Red Sox, a bunch of crap:
JD Drew, John Lackey, Edgar Renteria, Julio Lugo, Carl Crawford
Hes way overrated because he waas the GM of the Red Sox.
I’ll take two titles and a bunch of crap.
Sincerely,
Cubs fan
I guess all you need right now then is two titles. 😀
JD Drew was not a bad signing and Crawford is only 1 year into his contract.
Good luck with that…….If he was the savior….the sox would not be in the shape they are in now. Not saying it is all his fault but he defintiely didnt stop the problem from getting worse along with ownership and the players. Honestly, He doesnt throw pitches or hit homeruns. He only puts a team together. Like it or not the Cubs still have a ton of bad contracts……..hes not gonna turn this thing around and if he does…..it will take years.
Yep. No savior. Just oversaw 2 WS Championships that your team hasn’t seen in 86 years. By the way he was 29 years old when the first one was won. Nope, no savior. Just a ho-hum GM that means little to nothing to a team.
“If he was the savior….the sox would not be in the shape they are in now.”
Half a roster underperforming and still one win away from a spot in the playoffs?
Hell, I’ll take it.
Anyone think he should try to land Sabathia over Pujols?
Uh…YEAH. However, I honestly don’t think CC is going anywhere. He’ll opt out just to get more $ from the Yanks, unless he was serious when he said a few years ago that he really liked playing and living in Milwaukee, which is basically Chicago North.
Yea, the Cubs need starting pitching awfully bad.
Theo, welcome to the slaughterhouse that is Wrigley Field; where some of the best baseball men have crashed and burned. It’s like the Bermuda Triangle of baseball. Good luck!
How about Theo as President and Andrew Frieman as GM. New reports coming out that Theo is President only. Reports coming from Boston Globe reporters.
He will also act as GM.
that would be a step backwards for Friedman. He already is a team president.
Wow. Best contract the Cubs have signed in YEARS. Good sign for things to come, hopefully.
I hate me day, theo needs to quiy being a Cub already
Give me Szcur and Dolis and you are welcome to Theo, good luck Cubs!
That’s a huge overpay.
We’ll take Cherington then and just snag Theo in a year. We’re not idiots.
hey i have the same picture!!!
High five! Can’t go wrong with Timmy.
For compensation, how about Zambrano and Soriano, 2 ALL STARS. They fit right in with the Red Sox
If they put the cash in an envelope and pin it to Lackey’s shirt so he doesn’t lose it on the way to SD, then that is fine. Otherwise, Theo is another revenue source for the deep pockets in BOS.
For compensation,take anyone except Castro, Cashner or Garza.
Cashner isn’t good.
Really?
He is throwing 100 mph in the Arizona Fall League.
He is throwing 100 mph in the Arizona Fall League.
he hired dusty who killed his young studs, i have no pity
bill polian ?
I’m sick of hearing this already, just get Cherington in there, hire a manager and let’s start the freaking off season already.
First of all, it didn’t take a brilliant GM to end the Red Sox curse. Something had to happen first, and that was the 1994 player’s strike which essentially gave all the resources and advantages to the large market teams. When history looks back on Theo Epstein, that has to be taken into consideration.
Not trying to argue here I am just curious as to how the strike gave the large market teams all the resources and advantages, I have never heard that before and would like to hear more about it because I thought that it forced clubs to do revenue sharing.
Cubs are not trading Starlin Castro, he’s our SS for years to come. Cashner is another story
The curse of the “Tito Epstein” will begin shortly…
Well, I am completely at a loss for words. It’s tough being a Sox fan right now, let me tell you. Good luck Cubs fans. Theo is a great GM and he will surely be missed. Lastly, hope he brings Tito into the fold with him, because Tito knows what he’s doing.
I think Tito’s a great manager and would be a great fit, but Theo’s out of his mind if he doesn’t hire Sanberg.
It appears that the Red Sox prefer cash.
Well when you’re paying for under-performances by Lackey, Crawford and Dice-K, how couldn’t you prefer cash?
$39.25MM for mediocrity. That’s a lot of poutine.
I’d say about 10 swimming pools full of poutine- maybe 3 or 4 less if it’s that gourmet kind with prime rib and all that.
We’ll take the poutine if you take Lackey.
The poutine tastes better than Lackey pitches.
I imagine excrement tastes better than Lackey pitches.
This is probably for the best. Though I think Chicagoans will be disappinted (not because Theo won’t do a good job but he faces an incredibly difficult and pressure-filled challenge)….and the situation left behind in Boston is somewhat problematic. So even if this move is for the best, well, I don’t think it will meet expectations…and therefore will be perceived as a disappointment ultimately.
“Careful Kid, they’ll break your heart.”
Get permission to talk to beane, give him whatever he wants. Once he is in, watch the magic of moneyball with an actual payroll. But this is a pipedream of a red sox fan. It’ll never happen. It should. But it wont.
It did happen, Beane backed out.
Typical Cubs move. Pay top dollar for mediocre talent. Andy McPhail had the same credentials when the Flubbies hired him — two World Series rings and “known” for the building a farm system. What did he win? My hunch is Theo will be similar. Being a die hard Cubs Fan, I hope I am wrong.
Check out my take on the Red Sox at http://thebestsoxblog.mlblogs.com
Could be good for the cubs.
I just hope they don’t over do this one.
Boston did win 2 world series titles under epstein but a lot of bad contracts they have now.
are the cubs getting another jim hendry? or someone cushy to take tax dollars for wrigley field?
They need to develop their minor leagues first.