Links for Friday as Jake Peavy prepares for his first game action since last July. Peavy faces the Angels in Arizona this afternoon…
- Chris Richard, an outfielder/first baseman who spent parts of five seasons in the majors with the Orioles, Rays, Rockies and Cardinals, has announced his retirement, according to Marc Topkin of the St. Petersburg Times (on Twitter).
- The Angels offered Carl Crawford $108MM with an $18MM option, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (on Twitter). No wonder the outfielder accepted Boston's $142MM offer.
- Vernon Wells would have accepted a trade to the Yankees, not just to the Rangers or Angels, according to Heyman (on Twitter).
- Rangers higher-ups want Neftali Feliz to make the team's rotation, according to Heyman (on Twitter).
- Astros catcher Jason Castro could miss the entire season, after tearing his right ACL, according to MLB.com's Brian McTaggart.
Good luck Peavy. He’s an absolute bulldog and will find a way to prove to the world that he can be successful despite the horrific injury.
I don’t know, I’d rather have Clayton Richard.
I just hope he doesn’t reinjure that shoulder against the first batter.
Now Boston fans can stop denying that their team overpaid by 34 million to get Crawford.
Yet our team still has one of the best FA hitters on the market… or are you suddenly planning on calling him overrated because he’s on the Red Sox? I’ll still say compared to Vernon Wells the Red Sox got a bargain.
If Carl’s legs and arm hold up, he’ll be worth it. Speed is the name of his game.
Carl Crawford became overrated the exact moment $100 million was first blurted out.
Yeah especially since, according to WAR, he was worth almost 130mil over the first 7 full years of his career including his so-so pre peak years (like ’03). Do you even think about what you say or does it just fall out?
Yeah I do think about them. Do you? Or are you just another one of those nerds who let sabermetrics do all of your thinking for you so you’ll feel like an expert?
Ooh tricky! You almost hid the “WATCH THE GAMES!!!1!” in that comment. Almost.
Call him what you want, there’s probably 50+ million of dead money on that deal when all is said and done.
“probably 50+ million of dead money” That’s pretty bold for such a baseless statement.
Huh? Says who?
Overpaid? That’s yet to be seen.
Especially considering the Angels are paying Wells MORE than the RED SOX are paying Crawford.
Plus, if you actually take a Jon Heyman tweet as any semblance of fact you’re in worse shape than even I think.
Overpaying is related to paying more than you have to. Presumably, a player will sign with a team when their offer exceeds the next best offer. In this case, if the Angels offered 6/$108 overpaying would be offering much beyond the previous offer.
It has nothing to do with whether a player deserves it or not. I’ve used this analogy before but let’s assume (for the sake of a good laugh) that Vernon Wells turns in 4 seasons of 5+ WAR and that the Angels win the WS in each of those 4 years. Does that mean that the trade is now considered good? NO. Acquiring Wells (in this case) would have been the right move BUT taking on his entire contract was a horrible move because the Angels could have acquired him for far less.
And it would be really naive to think Crawford would’ve signed for anything less than the $126 mm Werth signed.
According to reports (see below), Crawford’s camp set a price at $142 mm. The Sox thought it was worth it and met their price. The Angels were about to meet that price, but they didn’t even get a chance to make their offer.
I look at this similar to the Sabathia situation. Now, while I believe it should’ve been either the opt out OR the outrageous sum of additional money, it’s not as drastic of an overpay as people think because he was allegedly insistent upon playing on the west coast.
Likewise, most indications leading up to his signing were that Crawford wanted to go west and wasn’t too keen on going to a former AL East oponnent. If that is true, one could consider the extra couple million a year (Which it really boils down to with regards to the option, which could have been a club OR a vesting option) is something one might call a “forget your preference” tax. It’s entirely feasible that paying an extra $16 million in salary was what it was going to take to keep Crawford from going to a team that, bluntly speaking, would’ve been a better fit for him.
There’s a feasible argument that it’s an overpayment, but we’re without a few essential facts, namely what the Angels actually did? There’s been like five or six conflicting reports on what the Angels offered at this point and the Angels have more incentive than anyone (saving face after a poor offseason showing) to lie about it. Additionally, IF this report is accurate, we’d also have to know what kind of option that was. If it’s a straight club option, the Sox outbid the Angels by a whole lot, if it was a relatively easily attained vesting option (Something like 600 plate appearances annual average or what have you), well, $16 million over seven years isn’t all that drastic of a difference.
MORE??
Wells is getting paid around 72 million
crawford is getting paid 142 million?
Crawford, proven in the AL East, younger, and great defensive left fielder. Wells, older, only proven in a hitters park (moving to a pitchers park), and an awful fielder.
“Crawford, proven in the AL East, younger, and great defensive left fielder”
That’s it?
“Only proven in a hitters park”
Only as far as homeruns go.
Vernon Wells is a doubles hitter.
In fact, his Runs, Hits, and Doubles are almost split down the middle between home and on the road for Wells’ career.
He and Crawford almost had almost the same OPS in 2010.
“An awful fielder”
… who was at or near the top in innings played, total chances, put outs, fielding pct., and didn’t commit one single error in 2010.
Yeah. Real awful.
More per season is what he meant. Wells is making more per season on average than Crawford is.
So by your logic, AJ Burnett is a steal compared to Barry Zito. I have no problem with what Crawford received but it’s always interesting to see how “Red Sox fan” changes the arguement when it applies to one of their deals/players.
PS-Using what Wells earned as a justification for all other contracts for better players is what screws up the market anyway.
I wasn’t justifying anything. I was clairifying the statement above. I don’t know why you brought up Zito and AJ.
Wells averages $18 million over 7 years.
Crawford averages $20 million.
The problem is the Angels are only getting the “bad” part of the contract and none of the “good” part of the contract to offset it. As far as the Angels are concerned Wells averages 21.5 million over 4 years.
Wells is getting paid 86 million
Wells is overpaid this season, and the next 4, only because his contract was heavily back loaded. He’s actually averaging $18 million a season, which is Torii Hunter’s salary. Plus, Wells has done 2 things Carl Crawford has never done, he’s hit 20 homers (over 30 twice) in a season, and driven in over 100 RBI. Paying $142 million for a guy who has never done either of those things, and whose #1 selling point is his speed, is absolutely ridiculous. But we should probably be talking more about Jayson Werth regarding this issue. If this were next offseason, chances are Werth, Crawford, and Beltre don’t get nearly as much money as they signed for.
I forgot the only stats that matter are HRs and RBIs.
You do remember that games are determined by scoring runs, right? And in order to scored those runs they have to be driven in. And a huge contract should be going to players who drive in the most runs, which are usually players who hit the most homeruns, which is also what the average fun comes to see.
Over the last three seasons:
Crawford – 72 RBI AVG – 92 Runs Scored AVG
Wells – 77 RBI AVG – 75 Runs Scored AVG
Over the last three years Crawford has been better at creating runs than Wells. I should also mention that over the last three years Crawford has had a .355 wOBA and 119 wRC+ while Wells has had a .344 wOBA and 109 wCR+, so Crawford has been a more valuable player OFFENSIVELY than Wells, regardless of his much, much better speed and defense.
P.S. All of that was ignoring the fact that in ’08 Crawford was injured. If I had put the numbers up for his last three healthy seasons it would look even worse.
4/86 equals 21.5 million a year or 1 million more per year average for half the player!
I already mentioned that his contract was back loaded.
But what I forgot to mention was the $5 million from the Jays and the $9 million that is off set by the salaries of Napoli and Rivera, which in total brings the actual contract down to 4 years / $72 million, which is $18 million per season, which is the average salary of Vernon Wells’ entire contract. Someone in the Angels front office did their homework.
yea that’s the sensible thing to take away from the news. it confirms that arte moreno is a liar, but what we should do is believe the new lie that they only offered $126m.
crawford’s agent must have just concocted an absurdly detailed story of how the signing went down — after his man had already been signed, when there was nothing to be won — for funsies
Owner Arte Moreno spoke to The Los Angeles Times Friday in discussing the club’s offseason thus far and where they expect to go from here. He first refuted the rumor that the club made an official offer to Crawford, saying that the price the Red Sox paid for Crawford is “crazy”
let’s believe him this time you guys. doesn’t sound to me like he’s just trying to save face
Where does it say in the post that Heyman was qupting Arte Moreno?
it doesn’t. heyman is one of about 10 writers who have reported on angels offers. that’s in addition to crawford and his agents themselves
EXACTLY!!
Yeah. I posted a link that reports Reagins was prepared to match the Sox offer. I have no idea why the mods don’t approve it.
Minutes later, Crawford’s agents went to deliver the bad news to Reagins, who was irate. When Reagins reminded the agents, “You told me $142 million [would get it done]!” the agents responded: “We said that’s what it would take; we didn’t say we’d [guarantee] a deal.”
Yes. This was what I wanted to link to. It’s from an article in NECN by Sean McAdam
You’re not really giving all the facts.
“At the same time as the Red Sox were getting ownership approval to hand out the biggest deal since Henry and Co. took control of the club in February 2002, Angels general manager Tony Reagins was getting similar approval from his owner, Arte Moreno.
The Angels, like the Red Sox, had come in with something of a lowball offer initially — six years at $108 million. Moreno approved an additional guaranteed year and slightly more than $2 million per season. The Angels, then, were ready to meet Crawford’s seven-year, $142 asking price.
**FACT: Angels did in fact offer $108 mil plusa $18 mil option.
While the respective teams got ownership approval, Genske and Peters approached Crawford. If both teams come back with what we’ve requested, they asked, which team will you choose? To the surprise of some, Crawford answered: Boston.
**FACT: Angels and Sox were told it would take $142 mil.
In a final phone call, concluding at 10:50, ten minutes before Genske and Peters were set to meet with the Angels, the Red Sox were told that Crawford had agreed to their terms and an agreement was in place.
**FACT: Before Reagins had a chance to agree to the $142 mil or make another counter offer, the Sox made their’s and it was accepted by Crawford 10minutes before they were to meet with Reagins again.
In the Red Sox hotel suite at the World Disney World Dolphin Resort, the baseball operations staff and manager Terry Francona were assembled in the living room. From behind closed doors in his bedroom, Epstein could be heard exclaiming: “Awesome!”
When he emerged from the room, he told his staff the good news.
Minutes later, Crawford’s agents went to deliver the bad news to Reagins, who was irate. When Reagins reminded the agents, “You told me $142 million [would get it done]!” the agents responded: “We said that’s what it would take; we didn’t say we’d [guarantee] a deal.”
As Reagins fumed, the Red Sox celebrated. Never had giving out the biggest contract in the current ownership’s history seemed like such a victory”.
**We can assume that Reagins had Moreno’s approval but it’s not stated as such. Maybe he had convinced Moreno to make that offer. Maybe he didn’t. Fact is, he never made a formal offer of $142 mil because Theo beat him to the punch before he could make ANY offer after his initial $108 w/ option offer.
assume moreno did not approve the offer by the deadline. how do you explain reagins’ reaction to the agents’ news? there isn’t a sensible one
the story that better fits the facts: the angels agreed to meet crawford’s asking price, were turned down, became quite upset about it the whole ordeal and then tried to manage the PR by claiming they were never even in the same range as boston
No. Although I can’t prove that Readins DIDN’T offer $142 it’s more likely that they offered the initial $108 plus $18 mil, were told they weren’t close and that $142 was what was needed, Moreno was unwilling to go further, Reagins begged, pleaded and convinced him to raise the offer to $142 (or close to it) and Reagins was beat to the punch by the Sox.
right. i think we’re just disagreeing about the term “offer”. they seem to have agreed to meet his price, but never got to make an official offer. i don’t see how that version makes moreno any less of a dishonest doucher in the aftermath, but hey
having settled that, are you watching the game right now? colon putting up donuts!
I got all excited and then I realized it was against Boston’s B squad. Almost as if they were throwing the game so that Colon would win the 5th spot…..hmmmmmm?
COLON! DONUTS! COME ON MAN
but yea nothing really to take from these games, just fun to watch baseball again
couldn’t help notice that iglesias’ batting stance is about as close as you can get to a-rod’s. sorry kiddo, it’s gonna take more than hanging out with the guy a couple times and mimicking his batting stance. way to aim high, though
Wow…How did I miss that. Sry..delayed props for that one. Yeah it’s funny that he and Arod were working out this winter. He seems to really reach out to the younger kids more of late.
You don’t know what the truth is. These writers make it their job to twist things around to keep people reading and talking about these absurd situations.
It seems like the MLB offseason is turning into the makings of a reality show.
u jelly?
Overpaid, PSSSSHHT
WAY overpaid. But you thank Jayson Werth for warping the curve this offseason.
Yeah great thanks Vernon like our team really needed another huge contract on our hands lol.
Good luck convincing Cashman to take it on.
Exactly while I appreciate everything that George Steinbrenner did for the Yankees it seems like his sons and Cashman won’t be signing or trading for aging players with overpaid contracts. CC, Burnett and Tex were needs Wells wouldn’t have been I’m fine with our outfield I actually really like the outfield cheap, pretty good and young at least for the Yankees.
Man, can you imagine how badly the press would have lambasted the yankees if they’d traded for vernon wells?
Comparing what the RED SOX and ANGELS did, in a vaccum, when it comes to Crawford the RED SOX are the CLEAR winners. There’s no question.
No question that the Red Sox signing Crawford is a much better move than the Angels trading for Crawford.
However, the Angels overpaid by about $40m with the Wells deal. And for that they were ripped, shredded and destroyed (and rightfully so – it was beyond idiotic). Yet, by all accounts the Red Sox either overpaid by an extra year and THIRTY FOUR MILLION dollars (if Heyman is to be believed) OR they vastly overpaid because there were no other confirmed offers (if Reagins and Moreno are to be believed).
I honestly don’t know what happened here. I just find it funny that everyone is citing Heyman as an accurate source. In mosts posts people kill the guy. But since he is drudging up old news that bags on the Halos it’s all fair game and fun to pile on.
The Angels have the money to pay Wells, and for things that Carl Crawford has never done. The money, I think, is just an issue that has been created because no one wants to admit that (despite all the predictions and the hype) the Angels were never going to sign Carl Crawford.
The perception would be different though if Wells’ contract wasn’t so heavily back loaded. His contract averages $18 million a season, which is Torii Hunter’s salary.
I agree on Heyman. Any chance to discredit the Angels is always fair game.
The AAV of Wells’ contract is irrelevant when accounting for the fact that the Angels aren’t getting any of the cheaper years. For the Angels’ purposes (In regards to both what they’re actually paying and the salary cap), Wells is costing them at an AAV of about $22 million, which is absolutely ridiculous.
If you factor in the $5M Toronto is paying, the AAV is $20.25M. If you factor in the Rivera salary dump, the AAV is $18.95M.
ok then also factor in juan rivera’s 2011 WAR and mike napoli’s 2011 and 2012 WAR
which should bring wells’ value down to about 0-1 WAR through 2012, after which he’ll be 34 and presumably declining from a 3-4 WAR player toooo…we’ll see
all for only $18.95m per year (75.8m all-in)!
but at least you won’t have that bum crawford around
Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera clog the drains with their inability to produce in run scoring situations. Neither one of them are good defensively; Rivera is just lazy. Vernon Wells is a doubles machine and, is good with the glove.
your ignorance is assuming if nothing else
Once again you admit you have no argument.
you are like a fail robot! it’s kinda neat. with runners in scoring position:
rivera:.302/.363/.482
wells: .271/.341/.472
napoli alone is worth almost 3 wins more than mathis, the replacement level guy you’re stuck with now. so wells will have to be worth at least that much over rivera to even break even talent-wise. money wise, still way behind
Rivera still didn’t produce when he needed to the most.
Wells has proven himself far more then Juan Rivera.
I didn’t know Rivera had 2 seaons of 100 or more RBIs and 2 Gold Gloves. Hmm.
Napoli is a terrible clutch hitter and gives up a ton of stolen bases (52 in 66 games).
Part of the reason for trading Napoli was to open the door for Hank Conger to prove himself.
You’re like the gift that keeps on giving. RBIs, Gold Gloves, and Clutch; that’s perfect.
The Angels only added about $12 million to their 2011 payroll.
So what? Just ignore the other 3 years @ $20 mil or more?
Rivera and Napoli make $9 million between them, and the Jays did give the Halos $5 million. So $14 million is off set. That brings the total over 4 years down to $72 million. $4 years at $72 million is $18 million a season, which is the exact average salary of Vernon Wells’ entire contract. Not bad.
Another myth as the Angels never got 5 million from the Jays! They took on every penny of this awful contract!
“Moreno insists the Wells deal is no mistake. First, the money: The deal had died before the Jays agreed to take on Napoli and Rivera and send some cash too, essentially relieving the Angels of about $16 million of the Wells contract.
‘If you look at the deal as somewhere around $70 million, you’re looking at a $17-plus million deal, on a four-year average,’ Moreno said, before referencing the Crawford contract. ”
Los Angeles Times, January 27, 2011
They did get $5 million from the Jays.
Ridiculous if it actually was a financial issue for the Angels.
Wells was a horrible acquisition regardless of Crawford. And saying that Wells has a leg up because he hit more HRS and RBIS a couple of years ago means nothing. Even if they wanted to acquire Wells for whatever reason, the fact that they assumed his entire contracts was absurd. Even when the Yanks acquired Arod, who was the best player (arguably) in baseball at the time, they got the Rangers to kick in more than $60 mil of an already absurd contract.
Actually, it’s a major question. Although Wells is overpaid himself for the next 4 years, he has done things Carl Crawford never has. The play on the field will determine who the winner is.
He has done things Crawford never has? You mean like play poorly?
hit for a team that gave him lots of RBI opportunities
hit in a lineup spot that gave him lots of RBI opportunities
hit in a hitter’s park
the list goes on and on!
post a UZR of -16.6
post three consecutive years of negative UZR
oh god i just looked and crawford actually has more RBI than wells each of the last two seasons haha jesus. THE FAIL IS STRONG IN THIS ONE
Who exactly gave Wells RBI opportunities? Wells and Crawford’s OPS’ were almost identical in 2010. UZR… just as flawed as the RBI. All you should need is put outs, total chances, fielding pct., and number of errors, all of which Vernon Wells was at or near the top of the AL in 2010.
“Who exactly gave Wells RBI opportunities”
the last time he produced the 100 RBI you’re so proud of, he was hitting third behind reed johnson’s .390 OBP and frank catalanatto’s .376. surprised you didn’t know what you were talking about
“put outs, total chances, fielding %, and errors” do not give you information about a player’s range. that is, they only tell you how he handled the balls he got to, not about how often he got to the ball. needless to say, a perfect fielder is worthless if he can’t actually get to the ball. UZR gives you a a good idea of a player’s ability to get to the ball
but maybe we should try Total Zone instead of UZR, since UZR is soooo flawed (“like RBI”, you say, after citing RBI). here’s the range ratings for the past three seasons by TZ:
wells -10 -11 -9
craw +5 +12 +18
welp
“All you should need is put outs, total chances, fielding pct., and number of errors”
…This is just sad…
so are they going closer by committee in texas this year then?
makes you wonder why they parted with francisco
Pipe down Vernon
Even the yankees think taking your contract would be absurd.
I could only imagine the Yankees taking on Vernon Wells and all the espn and mlb channel Yankee homers making the deal the best deal of the offseason and something that really takes the sting out of losing out on Cliff Lee who will break his arm next year anyways.
The Yankees would get nothing but praise if they acquired Vernon Wells. The writers created this hype over the Angels signing Crawford, Beltre, and Soriano (yeah right). And now they are trying to cover their @$$es by bashing a move that probably saved the Angels offseason because they got a big bat with a glove, and got rid of a drain clog that had been building up from Mike Napoli and Juan Rivera for several years. But people are buying it; believing what they read. Okay, fine. But what happens on the field will tell us the true story.
Are you kidding? The New York Media would blast the Yankees for taking on Well’s contract but not being willing to up their offer to Lee. You’re off again
Again? I was never off to begin with. The New York media is always on the Yankees for something, whether it’s not signing Carl Crawford or Derek Jeter’s mansion. Overall the Yankees would be praised for not sitting around and letting the Red Sox take the Division before the season even starts. Everyone knows the Yankees can make a move some time for a top pitcher anyways. So, whatever criticism they would get for not signing Cliff Lee would be short lived.
The criticism for not sign Lee would be short lived?? It’s still going on now! And the acquisition of Wells wouldn’t change that at all. The media would see it as being just as desperate as the Angels getting him.
When you say “they got a big bat with a glove” you mean he carrys a very big bat (louisville slugger 34 oz) and comes WITH his own glove (rawlings I’m guessing??) right? I mean technically I assume he DOES bring a glove with him. What he does with it is anyones guess.
Really? ‘Cause I’m pretty sure everyone around Boston would have had a field day with that one if it had happened.
No. Yanks fans would wonder wtf did we acquire another OF’er making tens of millions when we have 3 capable OF’ers but are short 2 pitchers. Acquiring Zito or Zambrano, which would’ve been obscene as well, would’ve made more sense that acquiring Wells.
What is up with this off season and all this coulda shoulda woulda crap, Cliff Lee, Vernon Well, Carl Crawford, etc get over it, the said named player is with said named team, they made a deal and signed it, there is no way to tell the outcome because guess what? the season hasn’t started yet….anyone know who will win the world series this year with their awesome 20/20 foresight? Lets shelve this nonsense until at least May please.
In light of such a thin market, the writers created a lot of hype to keep things interesting. What has resulted is a distorted perception of which moves were good and which moves were bad.
Dont need a distorted perception to realize the Wells trade was the dumbest move of the offseason! The Angels could still distort this perception if they trade for Barrty Zito and take on all of his contract too. This would push the Wells trade to no.2 dumbest on the list!
“Rangers higher-ups want Neftali Feliz to make the team’s rotation, according to Heyman”
Now if I could only believe anything that comes out of Heymans mouth/pen but I sure hope Feliz moves to the starting rotation. Would love to see what he can do.
When are the writers going to stop blowing smoke up people’s @$$es about Carl Crawford? He was never going to sign with the Angels. He made it clear he wanted to stay in the AL East. But it’s entertainment. lol
Hey Astros, you can have Ryan Doumit.
HELLO read the the whole thing he says they offered Crawford 108 mill + 18 mill Option = 136 mill Red Sox offered 142 mill so the difference was 6 mill because we all know the player is picking up that 18 mill option at the end of his career.
108+18=126!