Now that the Super Bowl is over, the countdown can really begin. Spring Training is just days away, but that's not the countdown in question. The Cardinals have to lock Albert Pujols up by Spring Training or bid for him on the open market after the season and as ESPN.com's Buster Olney writes, contract talks are “not moving at all.”
Pujols appears to be pursuing a "Mt. Everest" contract whether it's in St. Louis or elsewhere. Other clubs – Olney names the Angels, Dodgers and Mets as examples – could re-brand themselves by signing Pujols, arguably the game's best player.
But it's too early to assume that Pujols is hitting the open market. Talks haven't been going well for a few days, but as we saw with negotiations between Derek Jeter and the Yankees, teams and players can make progress in a hurry.
Is there a chance he’ll get less than what he’s asking now on the open market? At his talent level its hard to believe, whatever that price may be.
someone will pay him exactly what he asks.
he is risking a lot though, he has elbow issues and could blow it out…
he would be gone about a year….could cost him 100 million dollars
if the cards are even close…just take it
he will have set his family up for generations
currently the best player in baseball and one of the best to ever play. these guys they come along once every 10/20yrs. he will get what he wants or find it else where.
Since both the Cards front office and Pujols agent agreed to keep talks silent, where are these magical leaks coming from?
I think the negotiations are taking too long, if Pujols truly wanted to stay, the deal would already be done. But I think these reports that have been coming out the last few days are complete “speculation” and complete bullshit.
I find these reports surprising about Pujols.. Realistically if the Cards cave and surpassed Arod 275, they would be completely financially strapped until the remainder of Holliday’s contract… With about 45 million locked up on 2 players until 2016..
I just figured that Pujols would want to win and would provide a bit more financial flexibility. Not be a financial anchor.
Pujols wanting a fair market value contract does not make him a “financial anchor”.
It makes him reasonable.
Would you happily work at your job for half the money your worth to your employer?
It makes him a financial anchor on the cardinals as they don’t have the resources to give 2 players almost 50 million for the next 5 years.
If he wants to win, signing this deal with the cardinals will be an obstacle for them to field a competitive team.
So he should be a good Cardinal and leave 80-100 million on the table?
Blame the Cardinals front office, not Pujols, for this situation.
Roy Halladay took a pay cut so the Jays/Phillies could have more financial flexibility…
Just saying..
Albert should give the cards some sort of break.
Albert has every right to pursue the highest salary he can get, he owes the Cardinals no break.
I see it the other way. Albert has already given the Cardinals a huge break by being the most dominant hitter in baseball over the past 6 or 7 years, while being paid a fraction of his worth.
The Cardinals are going to have to pay up, if they want to keep the best player in baseball.
his last contract gave them a break he wants to be paid this time
I agree. He said a couple of years ago, he would take less money so the Cardinals could build a better team around him! I understand, if the money is there….take it, but do not talk about taking less money to win! IMO, he and his agent does’nt want the talks to get out to the media, because it would make Pujols look greedy!!! I do not wnat to see him go, but we have a great pitching rotation and if they do not sign him, they have the money to keep the starting three pitchers and maybe find a couple of players to help fill the void!
you can compare someone making 50,000 to someone making 30,000,000
sorry but at some point its about saying im the highest paid player
this organization has done everything hes asked and even is hes “underpaid” 10%….its still more than fair
What has he asked them to do other that to field a competitive team which is what they should be doing regardless of Pujols? If anything, he’s shown a willingness to give them a home team discount by signing the last extension for way less than market value.
Not saying that he should strive to be the wealthies player but he hasn’t exactly tried to squeeze the last drop out of them before.
So signing a 100 million contract before he hit arbitration eligibility was a home team discount? This is your contention, despite the fact that Pujols said the Cards did him a favor when they didn’t have to regarding that contract? If you’re gonna comment about the Cardinals and Pujols, know something about them first.
Pujols was clearly on his way to being one of the top players in baseball when he signed that deal. Rookie of the Year, two all-star game apperances along with 3 consecutive top 4 MVP award finishes.
When he signed that 7/$100 mil extension he allowed the Cards to buy out 3 years of arbitration and 4 years of free agency. Over those 4 years of FA he averaged about $16 mil per when guys like Arod (10/250 mil signed in 2000), Manny (8/$160 mil signed in 200), Jeter (10/$189 signed in 2001), Helton (9/141 mil signed in 2001), etc had already signed for much, much, much more. So yeah, Pujols gave them a HUGE team discount. In hist first 3 years, Pujols averaged .334/.412/.612 w/ 38 hrs. Did a 7/$100 offer him security? Of course. Did the extension benefit the Cardinals more than it did Pujols? Absolutely.
Maybe you should “know something about them first”.
he took security over overall dollar figure. That isn’t giving a discount, that is negotiation. He could have gone year to year, risked injury and have been screwed or hit it big in FA, or take the long deal, risk being a bit underpaid but have security. That is rather common sense. That way he knows that he has at least set his family up for generations with 100mil.
The likelihood of him incurring an injury exists, no dounbt. But the risk is minimal, especially for an IF. PLEASE…let’s be real and understand that there’s an obvious benefit to both sides for that deal to happen and CLEARLY the Cards benefited more from it than Pujols did. They got tremendous production at a fraction of his market value cost. Either way you slice it, he gave them a discount.
the risk on albert wasnt minimal
were talking about a player who couldnt throw the ball to the infield the last year he played left and had an elbow injury that could knock him out a whole year hanging over him the last 4 years
plus albert belle shared the same body type, and fell apart at a young age
minimal? What? Didn’t you tell the guy above about knowing something about the situation. The guy had to be moved off the OF for a reason.
edit: didn’t realize someone already stated this.
at the time he signed it
it wasnt below market value and he signed it
didnt have to
its not like it was a gift to the team, he had only been in the league a few years and for his tenure it was one of the biggest deals ever…
He’ll still win, it just won’t be with the Cards if they dont pay him what hes deserved and earned! They gave Holliday what he wanted after he was with the team a total of 2 months. This is one time im glad the player is holding out for whats owed! The Cards will be villified if they dont do Pujols right and will regret it!
i think youre wrong, i think a lot of people in st louis watched this happen with renteria before, where he left for a few million dollars….it took a long time for him to be accepted back here…
also, for 30 million, you could have bought Dunn, Garland, Soriano and Wigginton this off season
I could be wrong! I just personally look at Pujols as a guy who could still play a passable 1b in 10 years and still hit 25 hrs! Worth 30 million then, no but not a total waste! People need to understand, much like in Boston with Big Papi, that even at 16 million a year he’s only been making 50 cents on the dollars. He’s arguably been the best value in baseball for 10 years! St.Louis has been making out like a bandit with Pujols and would you actually take Dunn, Soriano, Garland, and Wiggington over Albert! I wouldn’t!
hey! I’m gonna put an exclamation mark at the end of all my sentences! And 300million over the life of the deal could be divided much better than 1 player. If that is what he wants, see ya. thanks for the great years. 30mil a year for 25HR’s for like 3 seasons at the tail end isn’t worth the trouble.
not for most teams, but for the cardinals, those 4 players would make a difference….soriano closing over franklin, wiggington providing pop at 2b, dunn doing his thing and garland replacing lohse….
yes that would have been money well spent
I don’t get the idea that the Cardinals will be strapped if we sign Pujols. You’ve got 8 million coming off the books in 2012 for Berkman, 12 million and 15 million in 2013 for Lohse and Carp (assume picking up Carps option). Give 14 of that to Pujols, 8 mill raise to Waino, 3.5 mil to Yadi, 3-4 mil to Colby, still 5.5 million to replace our fifth starter, right fielder and give minor raises (assuming replacing Carp with Shelby Miller, and not raising payroll at all above the 106-108 it is).
I don’t think that leaves us terribly “strapped.” Throw Shelby Miller for 400k 2013 or 14. Replace Westbrook with a similar contract pitcher and that gives you a solid first 4 to go along with an all-star 3,4,5 in the lineup. dedicate that 5.5 to a rightfielder, and fill in the rest of the positions with similar contracts, like a Schumaker/Theriot MI is hard to replace, or farm players, Zach Cox for 700k, and we will be a competitive team.
its called all your eggs in a few baskets, were forced to rely on unproven players, if albert wants to be here, he will work with them
if its all about pride, hes a goner for sure
You are not factoring in salary raises across the board. Those add up. $3-$4 mil is not what Colby will get on his next contract. He’ll be looking at at least $8 mil per if he continues .850+ OPS production. Garcia as well is entering arbitration so that is millions of dollars to factor in. You also just cut Yadi’s salary. He is making $5.3 mil this year and likely will be due a raise rather than a $2 mil cut.
The team has to bank a lot on farm players as well and the team does not have many good offensive prospects. Fine bullpen and rotation candidates in the next few years. But a real problem in terms of hitting prospects, especially power in the organization. Barely any middle infield prospects worth mentioning.
I am all for signing Pujols at $26-$28 mil a year for 7, maybe 8 years. But for that money, you can get a lot of talent. Having Pujols and Holliday on the payroll the next 6 years would put the team in a big financial bind. A lot of things have to work out to make it worthwhile. I’d rather have a competitive team every year than have Pujols. Love the guy, but not worth sacrificing nearly a decade of a franchise.
To be honest, we are not privy to the Cardinal’s financial reports. We really don’t know where their break even point begins. Can they make a profit @ $80 mil, 100 mil or $120 mil. Signing Pujols to the contract he wants can result in them making no profit at all or simply less profit than before. So we can’t say that he would be a financial anchor.
Regardless though, having 2 players make almost 50 million will hinder almost every teams ability to attract free agents with long term contracts..
Minus a few teams and the cards are not one of them.
You can’t jus make a statement that he will hinder them and then reply “regardless” when I make an issue that we have no idea what their payroll ceiling is. If $80 mil is their break even point vs $120 mil then that makes a world of difference. Keep in mind, we’re not talking about an additional $30 mil annual to the payroll, we’re talking about an additional $14 mil (less than what they are paying Berkman and Kyle Lohse this year).
If the option was push the budget an extra $$12-14 mil or be w/o Pujols then the answer is easy (please sign here Mr. Pujols, would you like to have your $30 mil dispersed over a 6 month or 12 month period?).
people forget the market were in….they talk about the attendance, but dont realize we have a terrible tv deal….
were in the middle of baseball in actual operating cash, we cant spend like the cubs, phillies, redsox and yankees
Well, if these reports are true…..It’s been a fun ride Albert. And I wish you luck wherever you go (unless it’s the Cubs). You deserve whatever you can get, but I can’t fault my team for not going over 300MM.
Pujols to the Jays… please
lol
Not as far of a stretch as you may think
the jays would have overpay him by a ton to make up on the difference in taxes between missouri and toronto
just like cost of living between new york and boston versus st louis
our state income tax is 6% with lower cost of living
new york is 10% right? or is it more
thats a lot of money when talking over 200 mill
I don’t get the dream world Jays fans live in.. why exactly would he want to come here? As of next year he would take up almost 50% of the payroll.
Well they consider their GM a god…and yes he’s done some great things already but he’s actually not a god.
I FORGIVE YOUR BLASPHEMY!
because you have any idea what the Jays are planning
I’m sorry…and you do?
ya thats what I thought..
I have no problem thinking the Jays will try to get him
but I have a hard time believing Pujols would choose the Jays over many many suitors
replied to the wrong thing
No I’m pointing out that you need reading comprehension classes.
I said that I doubt very much Albert would come to Toronto..
and your response was ‘ because you have any idea what the Jays are planning’
Any time your ready to make sense or put together a worth while argument I’ll be here.
are you stupid? i’m talking about the way you addressed the person for making a harmless statement – your little “I don’t get the dream world Jays fans live in”, as if you came in here just ready to bust that out on the first person to mention the Jays. my argument has nothing to with what the Jays are doing, you can change my first response to “because you know what Pujols is thinking” if you so please.
Fight…Fight…Fight!
Wait so now your argument is not that I’m wrong, but that I disagreed with someones opinion…
why didn’t you just say you were an asshat to begin with and wouldn’t have wasted my time replying to you.
its not that you’re wrong, its that you’re being overly smug with your rude blanket statements, considering nobody has any idea what Pujols or the jays are planning or thinking.
So why even come on this site? obviously know one has any inside knowledge of teams or players mind set..
but you can make educated guesses based on the information available.
sorry if I was too rude for you..
I do accept your apology though.
You’re such a jerk… I love it! hahaaha
He wants you to be nicer :).
Lunchbox, please end all of your comments with a smiley! 🙂
It will make you seem nicer 🙂
well its more to do with him not coming off like a raging douchebag for such a minimal purpose, but if thats how you two prefer to converse with people, more power to you
wait, what? you two? All I was saying was to be nicer. Am I a raging D bag?
I think grandpa is a little cranky.. If we ignore him, I’m sure he’ll just go take a stool softener and a nap.
ahaha what
you are not clever
You certainly are. It was pretty obvious that those smiley faces were really smirking. Jerk.
What next?? you’re going to tell me the Jays are going to trade for King Felix and Hanley Ramirez? but then have a conniption when someone dare calls you a complete dreamer?
ya, same situation entirely…good one
because you have any idea what King Felix is planning
haha +10
all jokes aside, they could be players
they did just dump the salary of wells….
wells and halladay money could = pujols
Because the Jays have gotten competitive and because payrolls can fluctuate. Pujols might actually fill some seats in Toronto and help offset the massive contract.
I’m positive the Jays would spend the money on him
I just don’t think he’ll sign here.
Pujols is the kind of guy that would instantly fill in seats, especially in a place like Toronto. I think it would be a good match.
Roy Halladay totally filled the seats in Toronto!
It will take a winning team to bring back the Toronto fan base. As good as Roy was, the team surrounding him was for the most part a joke.
Obviously I was kidding
I know you were, but you were also 100% right
he would be a good match in a lot of places
Jays payroll is usually around 75-85 so it wouldn’t be 50% and if that signing were to happen, Jays would simply be forced to expand payroll to 120-150 which they said they are willing to do in time and Pujols is that one guy you absolutely do that for.
Nonetheless, it’s a pipe dream.
The Jays have the ability to go way above a $60 mil payroll. Keep in mind the payroll is lower becauase they rid themselves of their biggest contracts over the last couple of years (Halladay, Burnett, Rios, Wells). They were up around $100 mil in 2008 and I imagine Pujols can help them increase their attendance.
YFS78… read my post, I’m not saying the Jays wont spend the money, I’m confident they will in due time
I’m skeptical about Pujols desire to play for the Jays. I doubt very much he would sign here.
I agree w/ you that Toronto may not be the most desireable place for him but I was just responding to the idea they couldn’t go above $60 mil when clearly they have gone close to $100 already.
However, if he’s willing to leave St. Louis over money and the Yanks and Sox are not in the bidding then anyone WITH THE ABILITY TO pay him his desired salary AND be a contender (which I think the Jays might be capable of being) is the running.
The Mets cannot afford to pay him that much. I know they have a ton of money coming off their books in the short term but if Pujols would handicap the Cardinals with his contract, imagine his impact on the Mets payroll. I’m pretty sure it isn’t allowed, nor is it likely, but hypothetically could NYM offer Pujols part ownership or something?
hahah i dont think that would be allowed. but the mets have nearly 50mil coming off the books, i think they can get pujols and another star/semi-star or several quality players with the money being freed
I have a feeling the Mets will cut payroll over the next few years until the owership gets stabilized and they can be big spenders again. I wouldn’t be supprised to see them cut 30-40MM in payroll next year.
i see your point, it is getting a little scary with these lawsuits against the wilpons because of their (supposed) looking the other way to the madoff thing and making millions
Unless the Wilpons sell a majority share of the Mets I would put the chances of them signing Pujuls among the least in the league. I know it sounds crazy, but even the Royals make more sense. They are going to have a team built for 5-7 years on cheap possibly elite talent and could afford to splurge on the hometown Pujols – assuming they move Hosmer to LF. I’m not saying I expect the Royals to get involved, I’m just sayin thats how little of a chance I see the Wilpons signing Pujols – that the Royals would be more likely.
i think the same drama played out with Mauer & Jeter & they got it done!! the cards got way to much to lose by not signing Pujols, they will sign him & it will probably be right @ the deadline. Pujols will get very close to what he wants.
the maur signing is a good comp. he was the absolute star of a team with a small payroll and he re-upped for a hefty price. i think, though, that if the cards resign pujols for anything other than a huge discount, they are financially screwed for the next half decade.
same thing happened to texas when they gave A-Fraud that huge contract. they fielded a AAA team around him
yup. he may be worth it in a $/win ratio but if you can’t afford the supporting staff, it doesn’t matter. they are already having trouble fielding a good team around him, so imagine them with 15mil less to spend on the rest of the team. now imagine that both carpenter and wainwright make 20mil. now imagine that 4 players are the cards’ entire payroll. the other 21 will be scrubs. that’s no way to run a team.
Can I just ask why anyone would pay Carpenter 20mil/year? Yeah Wainwright will get there, but that’s three years away. But I can garauntee you the Cardinals will not be paying Carpenter 20MM/year…ever.
Thin pitching market… I’m not sure he’d get to 20, but he’d get overpaid in years and dollars thats for sure.
He will be a FA after 2012,(15MM team option for 2012) I haven’t really looked at who would be available with him. I just can’t see him getting anymore than maybe a 2/30, or 3/39 from someone desperate at this point in his career. That’s IF he stays healthy for the next couple seasons.
maybe. but premium pitching is going for a crazy amount. and he has had a couple of good season in a row, so he can pad that resume. also the fact that his option is 15mil means that he will be looking for an upgrade, so i bet he doesnt make less than 16 a year. he will make much better than 30mil over 2 years or 39 over 3 years. he may only be worth that, but he will get a lot more.
Carpenter will be 37 when he hits Free Agency and will turn 38 early in the 2013 season. So no, he will not be getting anywhere close to 20MM/year or more than a 3 year contract. It won’t happen, the guy was glass when he was 32. No one is going have him on a muli-year deal into his 40’s.
“Premium pitching is going for a crazy amount.” Maybe. But not in St. Louis. If STL doesn’t want to give the best player in baseball a big chunk of money in his late 30s, they are not going to give Carpenter an overpay. Maybe not even fair pay. Keep in mind, there is also a little bit of pitching depth on the farm.
If Pujols doesn’t sign, who knows. They may go into full re-build mode. I would be heartbroken, but it would not surprise me if they trade Pujols at the deadline for prospects. I suspect the Berkman sign was an insurance package for that scenario. They’ll need to still fill seats. Berkman (star name) slides to first. I have the same gut feeling about the Edmonds sign. When Pujols is gone, Edmonds will be in the OF for fans to wax nostalgic in the aftermath of a Pujols trade. Just a thought, of course! I’ve followed the Cardinals for a loooooong time. If there’s one thing they do know very well, it’s marketing. Berkman, Edmonds and a handful of promising prospects will help ease the loss of The Machine. I hope I’m way off on my speculation, tho.
Entering the off-season, I guessed if Pujols wasn’t signed by his birthday, it wouldn’t happen. Now that it looks like it won’t happen, here’s my next call: The aforementioned Pujols trade at the deadline. He will go to a contender (because he would accept nothing less) and the Cardinals will receive prospects. Eventually, he ends up on the Yankees and Tex moves to another position (DH, 3B, LF – whatever fits best other than 1B). Maybe he’s a Yankee at the deadline through a 3-way trade. Eventually, he’s in pinstripes, tho. Considering Albert’s passion for baseball and his respect for its history and the players that have come before him, I think he lands on the same team that Gehrig, Ruth, DiMaggio, etc. played for. No disrespect to other teams like LAA or BOS (I like both much more than the Yanks). Just being realistic.
eh don’t think it will be the yanks. tex is being paid too much to be asked to move. also he has a good defensive reputation, so i doubt they waste the DH on him, especially when posada can no longer catch. and if the yanks give away the farm for pujols, i’d think they would want to extend him. then tex becomes a full time DH (a waste of his defensive ability) and arod has to stay at third (going to be a reaaaal problem in a couple years) also jeter would have to stay at SS (which is so so not happening). for that reason i dont think the yankees trade for him. the red sox would have no place for adrian gonzalez/ david ortiz either. although if david ortiz leaves, then maybe they can move AGon to DH but he’s still young and it wouldn’t make sense. so i see the yanks and red sox as being out of it.
Your thought on the Yanks is the popular consensus. My response is that Posada’s one step away from retirement. (Will they really need him after 2011?) And despite his multi-year deal, I really don’t think Jeter is far behind. I agree that Tex at DH is less than optimal use of resources. I’m thinking maybe LF/DH after the trade deadline to accommodate the addition of Pujols. Then maybe he stays in LF or moves to 3B, depending on how Jeter’s career plays out. I really think once Jeter reaches 3000 hits, if his skills continue to decline, he’ll consider retirement more seriously in the coming years.
I’d like to hear thoughts from a Yankees fan on how Pujols as a Yankee might work.
alright well let me try. ok arod cannot continue as the 3B. his range because of his hip is disappearing fast. arod can move to the DH, so then teixiera can play third, which isn’t ideal, but he plays well at one corner infield spot, so maybe he can manage third. pujols plays first obviously. jeter moves to the outfield because he simply cannot remain at SS. maybe he moves to left field (even though cashman said center… just no. not possible). gardner will still be cheap, slightly above average offensively (if his walks stay up there), and he can be a plus defender in centerfield. obviously posada retires. i think montero can be the catcher by then, or maybe romine if montero really cannot catch. then montero can be traded for starting pitching or another SS. although they sign a SS more likely. jose reyes is a FA next year and i don’t think the mets can afford to resign him. if he can stay healthy and play at his normal level next year, he could be attractive to the yanks. so you end up with montero/romine catching, pujols at first, cano at second, reyes/FA at SS, tex at third, jeter in left, gardner in center, and swisher maybe in right if he can keep up 2010’s defensive and offensive improvements. the only problem is that payroll would have to go up a lot to be able to afford pujols, arod, jeter, tex, cc, aj, reyes (if signed), cano’s impending free agency, among other expenditures. and that’s without considering the high end starting pitching they desperately need. basically, i don’t think it’s a good allocation of resources: tex at third, jeter in LF, pujols’ contract… i would rather leave tex at first, arod at DH, jeter at third, keep gardner in LF and sign a FA SS (reyes?). maybe granderson keeps his spot in center if he plays in 2011 like he did in the last month or two of 2010 (aka much much better).. then pujols money goes into a good SS like reyes and some decent starting pitching! um sorry for the long post lol
No need to apologize for the lengthy response! If they’re thoughtful and well-written (and yours was), I enjoy lengthy responses. Reading is good.
What you’ve said makes a lot of sense. It gives me a Yanks fan’s POV and much more insight to the team’s needs. Thanks for putting in the time and effort. I appreciate it.
I absolutely can not see a scenario where the Yanks would or could get Pujols. Short of Tex having some debilitating injury that risks him missing more than a season, it just won’t happen. Pujols said he wouldn’t approve a trade and the Yanks have felt the sharp hand of reality that proved how hard it is to get great FA pitching. That coupled with the trend of extending young pitchers and the fact that most of their prospect are pitchers I think the Yanks will look to develope their own or use some to acquire elite level pitching.
Even as a FA, the Yanks see with the examples of Arod the dangers of signing big name guys into their late 30’s and early 40’s. They did so with Jeter, but with some reluctance. Pujols is not that great of an upgrade over Tex to do something like that.
Was hoping you would respond, YanksFan. Thanks! Your response makes a lot of sense. It does bring to mind two thoughts: 1) How is Tex progressing from his post-season injury? And 2) In the off-chance that the Cardinals are completely out of the pennant race at the deadline and a classy, contending franchise has the proper deal in place, I wonder if Pujols would have a change of heart about being traded.
Couldn’t agree more. I even have doubts STL will pick up Carp’s option. I’m a big Carp fan, but it just wouldn’t make financial sense to me. Age factor is starting to kick in and he has a spotty health history to go with it. Hopefully Miller will be ready by then and/or Buehrle will make good on his proposal to play for STL at a ridiculous discount. Would love to see Buehrle in our rotation.
well cliff lee will be making 27.5mil in his age 36 season!
But Capenter will be 36 before THIS season begins. He will be almost 38 when he hits free agency. He is past his years for a big contract.
Yeah but keep in mind that because of injuries, his arm is not that worn down as other pitchers in their mid 30s. I can see a 3/51 or something… I mean, dude’s been a beast!!
I hope someone gives him that. Because that would mean he has a great final 2 seasons in St. Louis.
Yeah but he’s getting $27.5mil at the end of a deal not at the beginning.
I would say they fielded a AAA pitching staff around them. They managed to have some pretty great names around himduring that period (I-Rod, Palmeiro, JuanGon, Mike Young, Hank Blalock and Mark Texieria. They also traded some good players as well like Travis Hafner and Agonz.
The problem with the Arod contract was that it prevented them from correcting the bad decisions they made towards the pitching staff like signing Chan Ho Park, trading away John Danks and making poor draft decisions.
None of them are dude
I hate saying it, but there are better ways to spend $300 million. If that’s what Albert wants, it would be irresponsible of the Cardinals to devote that much of the payroll to one player, regardless of his past contributions to the team.
Maybe he is capable of playing at a high level for 10 more years. But maybe he’s not, and $300 mil is a lot to gamble on that.
Yeah, there is no upside to that kind of contract. Either he is amazing and they pay him his amazingly huge contract or he good as he declines but is less than amazing but they still pay him his amazingly huge contract they they will be in the negative.
So they either break even or lose. Not a good way to start out a new deal.
they should not spend that much on pujols. it hamstrings the team financially. they should not have paid holliday so much because it means they can’t resign pujols. somehow i knew that the holliday signing was to make up for the eventual loss of pujols. little did they know it makes it so much worse because that money could have gone into keeping pujols around for a decade…
how much is holliday making? i thought he was a litttle overrated but his numbers are tough to find in a left fielder.
$17 million a year through 2016, and a club option for $17 million in 2017
17 mil a year until 2016
He just signed a 7 year 120 million deal last year.
I’d be willing to give him less years/more money, but 10 years is just too much
Waiting for the can he pitch, B. Cashman post.
Can he pitch?,
-B. Cashman
I wonder if Pujols would accept a contract that’s front-loaded, but keep the $30mil AAV.
Just floating random numbers: 37.5, 37.5, 37.5, 35, 32.5, 25, 25, 25, 25, 20.
$37.5mil a year is pretty ridiculous, but at least it saves you coin to spend after the first 5 years. This is also under the assumption that Pujols does get a $300mil contract.
That’s similar to how ARod’s contract is structured. I believe he’s making near 20m last few seasons.
i dig
“$37.5 mil per? That’s ridiculous! (pssst….get Boras on the phone)”.
-Arod
Too bad A-Rod dumped Boras.
Makes sense. Pujols has to understand the Cards don’t want an A-Rod Albatross contract that will constrict their spending for the next 8 years, when Wainwright, Molina, and Carpenter will hit the market.
Wow….that looks bad. That contract looks like it makes sure you will never get your money out of Pujols in any single year of the contract.
Pujols may be the best player in the universe, but he comes to bat once every nine times. The Cards better have deep pockets. We all know the Arod/Rangers story. I don’t think the Cards are run by fools, if they sign him they must know what they can afford in putting a team together.
Pujol’s to Free Agency FTW!
I dont understand the Cardinals, last summer when they signed holliday to that nice contract I assumed it was because they figured they could pair him up with Pujols for the better part of a decade. It was widely expected that pujols would want at least A rod money, so my question is why would you sign holliday if you werent immediately prepared to sign the best player in the game? If you are that financially strapped then you should have let holliday go. I just dont see what the hold up is, they knew this was coming and knew the amount of money he was seeking.
remember…post a SMILEY…lol you are so so mean!
🙂
I had a dream.
A dream in which Frank McCourt and his hag ex-wife were run over in one of Frank’s parking lots.
A dream in which the new owner gave a rip about the team’s past as one of baseball’s more storied frankchises.
A dream in which the Dodger first baseman hit more than 13 home runs.
A dream in which Albert Pujols wore Dodger Blue.
Oops, just woke up.
Sometimes I dream about “frankchises” too! 🙂
lol…nice typo there by me. heh
20 years – 500 trillion dollars should get it done.
That’s great Karan. Hahahahaha! With all this “monopoly money” floating around your post isn’t too far off.
The Dodgers and the Mets are not signing Pujols unless they are sold to deep pocketed new owners in the next year. That’s not realistic.
Angels have Kendry Morales, their best hitter, playing first base. He’s not as good as Pujols but he’s not bad….and he’s younger.
I wish Pujols the best possible return….I just don’t see any other team giving him what he wants either.
Mets have a lot of money coming off the books next year and they could certainly use a player that will bring the fans back.
Sure, the Mets could use Pujols. If the Madoff Ponzi scheme was still undiscovered, and the Mets were in the same financial fools’ paradise as before, that would be a likely use of the “money” the Mets ownership thought to be available.
Now the Wilpons are tap city. Pujols isn’t an option. A sale of the Mets is a potential solution, but such sales go slow and the Wilpons don’t want to sell to begin with.
Pujols is not going to be a Met. Too bad for him, too bad for Mets fans.
Has anyone followed these negotiations? If AP goes anywhere…it will based upon winning. By this I mean…which team gives him the best opportunity to win. To a lesser degree he is concerened with playing in a warm climate. I have heard/seen Baltimore’s name…Toronto…and the Schlubs. Let me ask you…assuming he is concerned primarily with winning…and warm weather…would you pick the Orioles, Blue Jays or stinking Cubs? Get real.
Yes, he has said he wants to win and has also said he wants to be a Cardinal for life. They went out and got Holliday because he wanted them to. Now if he hits free agency do you really still believe that it is not about the money? If the reports that have come out over the last few days are true, it appears it is alot more about money than anyone thought to begin with. And I have no idea what you are talking about with the warm weather, have never heard anything about that at all.
AP’s not getting on the open market. The Cards will trade him–they’re not letting him walk without getting just a draft pick. Therefore, he won’t be going to a lesser team like Baltimore and definitely won’t get traded to the Cubs.
Albert has 10-5 rights and can veto any trade. Reports have said he would not accept a trade anywhere. So he may be walking for 2 draft picks.
That’s true. I understand his trade veto rights. Don’t believe the reports. If he gets traded to a team he’s going to sign with anyway, it would be kinda classless of him to reject the trade. I mean, the guy gonna play somewhere if not St Louis. So if the Cards trade you where you want to go anyway, I’m thinking he would change his position.
But….he has said he wants to test free agency if he does not stay with the Cardinals. He doesn’t want to move 2 times in 6 months. The Cardinals wouldn’t trade him anyway. They will be in the bidding(or at least appear to be) until the very end if he hits FA.
I can understand the Cards wanting to bid for him until the very end because they don’t want to loose him. But if he gets traded he wouldn’t be a rental.
How do you know he wouldn’t be a rental? He has said he WANTS TO TEST FREE AGENCY if he can’t get an extension done with the Cardinals. He WILL NOT BE TRADED. The Cardinals wouldn’t do it, and he wouldn’t accept one so forget it, no happening, no chance!
Fine, fine you’re right, then. He’ll walk, I suppose, and the Cards won’t get any value from it.
How will he know who he’s going to sign with?
He has no clue who will be prepared to offer him 275+ million
So he can say yes I’d love to go move to LA and play for the Angels/Dodgers, but unless there is a negotiating window before hand, he’ll never know
Well that is what the deal would be predicated on–the implication that you’re being traded to a franchise that you want to play for and that can afford you. That’s few teams so you’d at least know what teams you remove your veto as to a trade. I know it’s seems very shaky…but the Cards franchise will take a major hit with this image-wise if he doesn’t resign..
So you think Albert saying he won’t negotiate after spring training starts just applies to the Cardinals? You are assuming that he would negotiate with another team in the middle of the season? I think you are way off here and now your just digging further. There is no way he is getting traded. Right now I give it a 60% chance he is in St. Louis in 2012 and a 40% he walks. (Last week I would of said about 80% he stays)
Nope like you said he won’t get traded so no negotiations will occur with another team in the middle of the season. Glad to see someone’s setting the record straight on the negotiation process and has it right. Clearly I don’t.
I wasn’t trying to sound like a jerk. Believe me, if the Cards know they are not going to be able to afford him, I wish they could pull off a trade for him right now. But first of all Albert would have to approve. Secondly the front office won’t do it because of the “casual fans” that don’t understand the business of the game. It would no doubt, be better for the future of the Cards to trade him than let him walk. It just looks better, to the casual fan, if they see him sign a 10/310 deal over the front office saying “Well we sent him off for a couple of highly touted prospects”
Let’s just hope the reports have been wrong and a deal gets done.
Well, while it’d be great for him to stay a lifelong Cardinal. I just hope that the Cards don’t get too financially hamstrung in this deal. That’s why I thought the Cards needed to convince him to accept a trade somewhere. And Josh Hamilton would be a great piece for them to acquire. Yeah I know, I’m playing fantasy baseball again.
Agree with everything you said. Unfortunately with the limited need for 1st baseman on most teams and the salary he will demand. There probably wouldn’t be many team willing to give up a great package for him. If we are playing fantasy and trading him. I would like to see something done with the Angels. Starting with Morales(instant replacement at first) and a good pitching prospect. Give them time to negotiate. It would be worth it just to make sure he gets out of the N.L.
I think that would be a solid move. I wonder, though, if the Red Sox are watching this with interest. I mean, they haven’t locked up Agon to a deal, yet. And they certainly could sign AP if he becomes a free agent.
First, let me preface my comments that as a baseball fan, I truly hope Pujols stays a Cardinal for as long as he and the organization want. Albert has always conducted himself in a professional way, and in my mind is a class act 100%! If the absolute worst case scenario comes to fruition IMO, and the Cardinals and Albert decide to go in separate directions before the end of 2011, it will be very sad.
One off-season signing the Cardinals made has already given them an instant (albeit stopgap) replacement for Pujols in Lance Berkman, so St Louis could trade for an outfielder (preferably RF) along with prospects, if that unfortunate situation arose.
I wonder what Albert is thinking here.
I would imagine the Cardinals are willing to offer something like 10/$275, and while he could get more than that on the open market, would he really want to play for one of the wealthier teams that doesn’t currently have a long-term solution at first base?
The way I see it, his most interested suitors should be the Blue Jays, Orioles, Mariners, Rangers, Cubs, Dodgers and Nationals.
The Rangers could be eliminated from the sweepstakes pending a big extension for Josh Hamilton.
The Dodgers probably aren’t a realistic suitor because of the McCourts’ issues.
That leaves five.
2012 Payroll Obligations for those five:
Blue Jays: $17.4MM
Options: Aaron Hill, Jason Frasor
Notable Arb Cases: Yunel Escobar (2), Brandon Morrow (2)
Other: Jose Bautista will be a free agent after 2011. Will he perform well enough for the Jays to consider bringing him back? Toronto’s starting rotation is probably the best value in the game. Ricky Romero won’t make more than $7.75MM until 2016 (and that’s if his option is exercised).
Orioles: $30.2MM
Options: Koji Uehara
Notable Arb Cases: Luke Scott (4), Jeremy Guthrie (3), Adam Jones (2), Brad Bergesen (1)
Other: Depending on how J.J. Hardy performs in 2011, the Orioles may also be in need of a shortstop next winter. A starting pitcher should be high on their list as well.
Mariners: $59.5MM
Options: None
Notable Arb Cases: David Aardsma, Brandon League
Other: They’ll be paying Felix and Ichiro $37MM in 2012. Felix is owed ~$20MM per through 2014. Ichiro is a free agent after 2012. Will the Mariners be forced into a Derek Jeter-esque “lifetime achievement, face of the franchise” contract?
Cubs: $65MM
Options: None
Notable Arb Cases: Matt Garza, Geovany Soto
Other: The Cubs will be paying $52MM for Carlos Zambrano, Alfonso Soriano and Ryan Demspter in 2012. There’s also a $16MM mutual option for Aramis Ramirez. If they don’t exercise that Ramirez option and they can figure out how to dump Zambrano, they’ll free up a lot of money.
Nationals: $44.6MM
Options: None
Notable Arb Cases: None
Other: Jayson Werth’s contract doesn’t get really ugly until 2014. Ryan Zimmerman’s contract looks great. The biggest factor here is the return of Stephen Strasburg and the development of Jordan Zimmerman, Bryce Harper and Derek Norris. If the Nats were willing to take a ridiculous financial risk on Werth, there’s no reason to believe they wouldn’t be willing to do the same for Pujols.
After all of that, I still think the Cardinals and Pujols will figure something out. But if they don’t, it looks like the Jays, Orioles or Nationals would be in the best position to take on $30MM per to get the best player in baseball. With that in mind, Pujols has to see that the best teams in the game are already well set at first base. Will he take less money and a better chance to win with St. Louis or more money and a real possibility of losing for quite a few years?
good post
You know maybe the Rangers could acquire him. Whose to say that they’ll offer Hamilton a big contract, especially with the way they’ve treated Young. The Cards would be wise to acquire Hamilton in a trade for AP.
Yeah because they didn’t extend Young to the tune of 16M per right? There’s also the little fact you left out about Hamilton actually being good at baseball. Plus Pujols has said he would veto any trade.
By the way, I didn’t say Hamilton didn’t have value. That’s why I think the Cards would pull out a rabbit out of hat so to speak if they did get him.
What the effff
I know Pujols is the best player in the game, but Hamilton isn’t too far behind and 1/3 cheaper at a more premium position…
Theres very few players that the cards couldn’t get for Pujols (1 year or less of) and Hamilton is at the top of that list.
Well totally screwed my post up here. So, Puljos walks I guess. Sad day for the Cards.
Way to go editing both of your posts. Comment mod can delete this reply now I guess…
Dude, stop with the hate. I had to quit my job because I’m disabled and dealing with severe arthritic pain so I don’t always concentrate well when reading posts…sorry. Troll. And now I see why people say those who live on the East Coast are rude. Yep.
good post….
What about the Angels though?
Their 2012 payroll is already at $75MM before Jered Weaver’s raise. It could drop significantly, depending on the Kazmir and Abreu options, but I just don’t see Pujols in Anaheim. They weren’t willing to shell out far less cash fro Crawford and they might be perfectly happy with Kendry Morales at first anyway.
Of course, if they have a down year, they could jump into the Pujols bidding just to satiate a frustrated fan base. Morales could move to DH or they could use him as trade bait to get a young outfielder since Torii will most likely be gone after 2012.
Edit: That $75MM figure includes just the buyouts for Kazmir and Abreu, which means the payroll would actually jump significantly if one, or both, of those two are exercised.
Doesn’t the VW acquisition hurt them in contending for Pujols?
I guess it all depends on how badly Pujols wants to win. I just don’t see the Orioles or Nationals contending in 2012, not even with Pujols in their line-up. Blue Jays? Possibly.
Nationals would roughly gain an extra 5 wins, comparing LaRoche’s 2.1 WAR to Pujols, 7.3.
Blue Jays would gain 6 over Overbay’s 1.5 WAR [were the Jays a fluke in 2010?]
Orioles would gain 7 over Wigginton.
Out of the 3, Pujols most logical destination would be the Blue Jays, but that clearly depends on how all 3 teams perform in 2011.
Wow. Lyle Overbay sucks.
What really pisses me off is the Organization specifically stated they had AP’s contract in mind (and they had the monies to sign him) when they signed Holliday. Yet…here we are…(12) days from the 19th and no signature.
Based upon the monies they have saved thus far based upon his previous contracts (and what he could have commanded)…they better recognize the fact he already gave them a hometown discount. In fact, he has given them (2) “hometown discounts.” It is now time to PAY THE PIPER.
While his previous contract ended up being a bargain. It wasn’t that big of a “hometown discount” at the time. It may look that way now, but getting a 8yr/111MM contract 3 years into the majors gives a player alot of stability. He wasn’t a free agent when he signed the current contract.
Regardless of whether he was a FA or not when he signed his current contract…it was still secured at a bargain. This year was a 16 million club option (also a bargain for his production). His previous contract…he was the highest paid player on the team for (2)…count em’….(2) years. Yep…bargains indeed. Pay the man!
I think the important question is, although Albert has said he wont waive his no trade right now, will he in the summer? Obviously at this point that’s a good bargaining tool for him, but after his self imposed deadline there would be no point declining a trade, assuming it sent him somewhere that he wanted to go.
If he doesn’t get an extension done by spring training he is going to hit the open market. He probably doesn’t want to play for 3 teams in a matter of 8 months. You can’t blaim him. He wants to play out his contract and (if he hits FA) then find his new home. Baseball players have families too. Why move your family twice if you only have to once?
AP will NOT be traded as he has full veto rights based upon his (10/5) tenure. 10 years in the league…5 with the same club. Additonally, he has flatly stated he will NOT agree to a trade. Frankly, I don’t blame him one bit either as he has always been zoned in from ST through the end of the year. He will NOT want to be disrupted in the middle of the season with a trade to another club. This means St. Louis signs him prior to (02/19)…they sign him during the very short Window after the season (which will be about 5 days) or he becomes a FA.
Does anyone else on here think that Albert Pujols is a jerk, and that this contract deadline and the ridiculous amount he will be asking for is insane and is disrespectful to the Cardinal organization? How about if he showed some class and had kept all of this behind close doors and acted like a professional?
He says he doesn’t want distractions, but setting a “personal deadline” creates one itself. If an agreement isn’t reached before spring training all that will be talked about all season his him and his contract and his future.
Most players that are negotiating multi-year contracts don’t want contract talks going on while they are worried about baseball. The Cardinals had talks with him last off-season but he wouldn’t negotiate once spring training started. It’s been widely known that he wouldn’t for about a year and a half. I wish it wasn’t the case, but to answer your question, NO, I don’t think it makes him a jerk. I think it is his right.
The Cardinals would be better off if Pujols walks. If they sign Pujols, they will be hamstrung financially for the next decade with all their money tied up in aging players Holliday and Pujols. Holliday and Pujols are getting older every year. This past season with both players, they couldn’t beat out the Reds for the division. so what makes them think they ever can as each of those players will be getting older and tying up a long of money and not giving a return even close to the value of the contract if he is looking for $30 mil per year.
“Holliday and Pujols are getting older every year.”
Oh man! I hope the front office realizes this!
Yep…groundbreaking information.
“This past season with both players, they couldn’t beat out the Reds for the division.” And this is what you are hanging your hat on? Yeah…if you don’t win your division you should NEVER try to sign talent. Especially the best Talent in the game right now (BAR NONE). As for “value”…DO YOUR HOMEWORK. You obviously don’t have even the faintest clue what kind of “value” AP brings to the table. And to qualify…I am including value OUTSIDE of baseball. You need to change your post to…The REDLEGS would be better off if Pujols walks. We both know that is what you mean. Hahahahaha!
People “are getting older every year.” LMAO. Compelling insight there.
the Cardinals are always wanting some sort of discount and this is the one player that shouldn’t give in. Pujols gave them a discount the first time around, and he’s proved himself every year. It isn’t his fault they overpaid Holliday. One good thing about 2012 is the Cardinals will have the awful contract of Lohse off the books. This deal will get done, my guess is 8/240 with options on years 9 and 10 as well as incentives on those years. I expect that money will be deferred throughout the contract just like his first contract. If I remember correctly, only once in his career Pujols has been in the top 10 paid players in baseball, but his performance has earned him the top spot. I’m not saying he isn’t overpaid but they are all overpaid, and in baseball terms he’s worth 30 mil a year, especially when you have a lot of guys getting over 20 a year now. Living in St Louis I’ve seen the Cardinals try to be cheap with so many players and if they lose out this time, it’ll echo throughout history as one of the dumbest moves, especially if he goes to the Cubs, which is a very realistic option.
Do people actually believe Olney, when nothing is coming out of either camp and Pujols has made it clear he doesn’t want a media circus around him?
Introducing the 1st baseman for the Chicago Cubs….Albert Pujols…….
Hahahaha! Let’s see…he states very plainly that he wants to win first and foremeost. With that… I ask you…and be honest (assuming a Schlubs fan can be honest)…if you wanted to win…would you choose the Cubs? LOL!
HAHAHAhahHAHAHAHahaHAHAHAHA!
clearly it was a joke
But the Cubs aren’t going to be good any time soon. I mean, they’re an awful team.