After losing one ace to Tommy John surgery, it seems highly unlikely that the Cardinals would look to move their other ace in a trade, but Chris Carpenter told Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports that he wouldn't stand in the way of a deal…
"It's not up to me," said Carpenter. "If the Cardinals wanted to trade me, obviously I would go. There's no question about that. I'm not going hold back or veto or do anything like that if they're looking to move me.
"I'm not concerned about it, though. I'm concerned about getting myself ready to pitch at the beginning of the season."
Carpenter, 36 in April, is in the final guaranteed year of his contract and will earn $15MM in 2011. The team holds a $15MM club option ($1MM buyout) for his services in 2012, but perhaps they'd prefer to use that money to re-sign Albert Pujols. Carpenter can veto any trade thanks to his ten-and-five rights.
GM John Mozeliak spoke this morning about adding pitching, not subtracting it, and the Cardinals intend to make a run in the NL Central even without Adam Wainwright. Should they fall out of contention, midseason rumors about Carpenter's availability will only grow louder. Rosenthal suspects that the Yankees would be potential suitors, something Joel Sherman of The New York Post mentioned this morning.
I’m sure they have no intentions of trading Carp at this point but you can bet, if they’re out of the race, they’ll shop him in July. By Carp publicly stating he wouldn’t veto a trade it shows me that many players want off the sinking ship! Wainwright, out. Pujols, gone. Carp, traded. Could be a long couple of years for Cards fans…
thats what I said yesterday except for it may be more than a couple of years
hey look at the bright side they may get the top draft pics in the NL
Does anyone think Matt Holliday is going to be annoyed at all if things fall apart? I know that he’s getting paid right around what was expected and around his true value, but if what everyone is saying about it being a few years before the cards can contend again is true, do we think he starts looking for a trade to a real contender in the near future? Again, that is only if it appears that the cards are 3-5 years away from putting together a championship team.
If, and it’s a big if, but IF it all comes true then yes, I look for St. Louis to end ip trading Holliday before his contract is up. Assuming he’s still producing he’ll be valuable to most teams in MLB and could get a pretty decent return for the Cards.
Come to the New York Yankees please!! lol
TJ surgery is not death. He will be back in 2012. Stop overreacting.
Lol @ a Mets fan calling the Cardinals a “sinking ship.” Where the hell have you been the last five years?
Translation = I’m in the twilight of my career, and I can’t carry the rotation myself. Trade me to a team that has a chance of winning, please.
You obviously don’t know Carpenter at all. Dude is a competitor. You don’t win Cy Young Awards with that attitude you’re speculating.
*Cy Young Award. Just one.
“You don’t win Cy Young Award…” isn’t exactly solid English.
but he could have sad “You don’t win a cy young award”
Look at that, the guy who typed could have sad is giving me English lessons.
Thank you for having a brain.
Oh wow, thank you all for correcting me. This Cardinals fan didn’t know he only had one Cy Young award in 2005. Oh what’s that, I even named the year off the top of my head? Dumb asses. Who cares how I worded it. Besides, if any of you peons could actually read, he just said he wouldn’t veto a trade, not that he is looking to be dealt.
He’s not going to openly ask for a trade, that would be counterproductive, and would foster strife with teammates and management (see Young, Michael). Your “read between the line” skills leave a lot to be desired. Either that or you’re too much of a Cards homer to admit it.
You don’t have to be a male reproductive organ about it.
do you personally know carpenter? then you are just speculating
i have met him a few times actually, but i can’t say i know him personally. Watch him, he is gotta be the most aggressive pitcher in the game.
Ask Brendan Ryan what he thinks…
Ask Ryan Ludwick what they both think.
how does him [theoretically] wanting to be traded to a more competitive team make him less of a competitor?
Ironically, him wanting to be be traded is evidence of his competitiveness, IMO.
Awesome screen name – even if it is a play on a terrible ad campaign by a terrible beer, I like what you did here
I’m sure Pujols would love the Cards to pretty much give up on 2011 in February. That should make him eager to re-sign.
give me a break! one injury and now the yankees think they own STL?!
Relax there kitty cat…they only said potential “suitors”.
Who said anything about the Yankees think they own STL? Rosenthal is just speculating if the Cards were open to trading Carpenter that the Yankees at the very least would take a look.
To be fair, the difference between Wainwright and his successor could be ~6 wins. That’s the difference between winning 96 games or 89 games. Big, big difference.
96-6=90
That’s what I get for trying to do math on 4 hours of sleep. That point still stands by the way.
Man the Cards are falling apart real fast…Now the Pujols drama is going to get interesting.
if the Cardinals are out of it, they should trade Carpenter. get a young pitcher/top pitching prospect plus more back in return. use the money you would use on the “36 year old” Carpenter on Pujols instead.
why would the Cardinals pick up the $15 option for a 37 year old pitcher in 2012 and risk not having the money for Pujols, who has a much better future than Carpenter. regardless of whether or not they use the money on Pujols, Carpenter would be 37 for 2012. “old”
but if the Cards get rid of Carp and Wainwright is coming off Tommy John, why would Pujols want to stay there? Getting rid of your best players isn’t a great way to convince a superstar to stay, even if it does mean freeing up a few more dollars.
I haven’t really followed the Cardinals through the years, but haven’t they always been a winning organization? when Carpenter (and maybe Wainwright) are gone, there will be different pitchers who could be just as good. even if Pujols does end up leaving, it’s not going to kill them similar to LeBron did leaving Cleveland in basketball.
“haven’t they always been a winning organization? ”
well they didn’t make the playoffs last year, wouldn’t make the playoffs this year if they made that trade, and would have slightly more than zero front-end pitching in 2012. their farm system is currently pretty weak. what’s the guy supposed to be waiting around for?
They are only 2nd to the Yankees as far as WS wins goes. They have had some down years in the past but I would say they have a pretty rich tradition of winning.
And the Pirates are tied for 6th (depending on how you count ties) so it doesn’t really mean a whole lot.
The Cards only have 2 world series wins in recent, relevant history.
Who picks and chooses which wins are relevant? Cards have one of the most storied franchisees in the MLB.
which has nothing to do at all with the present state of the franchise. so i think we’ll draw the relevance line somewhere around there
Ok but they still have 2 WS appearances in the last 10 years, thats pretty present imo. I’m still trying to figure out where you’re saying they haven’t always been a winning franchise.
They have had periods in which they didn’t win a WS but that does not make them a loosing team. They could have gone to the play offs during some of those periods.
Also just winning the WS does not make it a successful franchise, under that idealism then there would be 29 losing franchises every season.
i don’t have any reason to negatively characterize the franchise; i’m just looking at the organization as it currently stands. rosters that won titles 10+ years ago don’t have much to do with that
a playoff caliber club now looks to be in kinda scary shape if you ask me. the ace is lost likely until 2013; this is likely carpenter’s last year. pujols doesn’t appear motivated to take a discount, and the farm is weak
Yeah, I agree… not sure what the heck we are going to do with our current situation.
A New York fanboy, whoops reporter talks, whoops I mean drools having Carp on a New York team and kids like you exaggerate like crazy. Adam might be out for 2011, but he should be back in 2012 and yet you say 2013, really?
Albert hasn’t left the team and there is still plenty of time to work out a deal and yet you act like he is already gone, really? Now Carp is leaving too because someone wants him on his team, really?
We also have some arms in our farm system as well.
honored that you’d kick off your commenting career condescending to me
having said that, “it could happen” is basically the whole story of your post there. though unlikely, it’s not impossible for wainwright to return strong by 2012. though unlikely, it’s not impossible for pujols to suddenly change his mind despite the team getting worse and take a discount. though unlikely, it’s not impossible for a lousy farm to produce something high quality at just the right time
sure, all of those things are true. i wasn’t guaranteeing any outcomes, but i prefer to think and to speak in terms of likely outcomes. you do too, i bet, except when it suits you in defending your club
we’ll see how it pans out, but at the moment it doesn’t look good at all
I just don’t waste my time worrying about things that have not happened yet. Could you image if everyone did that, we would never make it out of bed the next morning.
If it happens then it happens and it is out of anyones control. However, until that time I am not going to try to project what happens in 2015 when it’s only winter 2011.
Then why in the name of god would you be posting on a site whose PURPOSE is speculating about future events? Go away.
There are rumors and there is outright speculation that is two years out. It’s not my fault you can’t tell the difference.
If they pick up Carp’s option there is no way they can afford Albert, so what is the point?
I read 36-37 YO a few times.. Don’t think Carpenter is gonna get a great return
Sorry, but if you trade Carpenter you might as well trade Pujols also.
if carpenter leaves cards will drop out of contention for this year and i believe albert will be leaving STL and i bet he will end up on the northside of Chicago
Because their team is so much closer to contention?
Well….We do have a Full Rotation. I mean dont get me wrong Wainright was the foundation of the Cardinals Rotation. But with him out of contention for this year and possibly half of next year. I would definitely take the Cubs rotation of Zambrano (even tho he is a nut case), Garza, Dempster, Wells, and either Cashman/Coleman: Over Cardinals Carpenter, Garcia, Lohse, Westbrook, and who ever fills the number 5 spot
CashNER BTW. And Silva may have a better shot than Wells…
it would be in that scenario, yes
Well it currently is that scenario. haha
i meant in the carpenter trade scenario, but yeah i suppose since the cards wouldn’t exercise his 2012 option anyway it’s pretty much a sure thing that by then the cubs will be in a better position
Just like every year. Cubs fans overrate the value of their players and team and then fail to do anything. It’s like an epic fail every year.
I don’t see how the Cards could let Carp go.
Its easy. Take the hook out of his mouth, and put him back in the water. Sometimes we have to let the big fish go to have the stories to tell. haha
I guess I read this different than most. My take is the same as the Buehrle thing. As a Brewers fan I hate to admit it but the Cards, take care of their players extremely well. IMO this is Carpenter saying he will do what is best for everyone involved. If the team can save 7-8MM and he goes to a contender if they are out of it than great. He is not requesting anything, teams and a player can part on good terms occasionally. Hoffman and the Pads and Lee and the Phillies are two quick examples.
You’re not alone on that, I agree. I don’t think he will get traded. I think he will finish the season, his option won’t be picked up, but they’ll agree to a cheaper contract. At least that’s what I would like to see happen. The Cards may not make the postseason, but it won’t be a blowout like some people are thinking.
I heard the same thing, he was saying if the team didn’t want him there, he wouldn’t stop them. I could appreciate that opinion.
Now Buerhle said something different, he said he would agree to a trade in the “right situation”. That means you trade me to the cardinals and they pick up my option.
Someone with intelligence on a message board? I didn’t think that was allowed.
obviously you trade carpenter and pujols for 15 sweet prospects and then after the season be like hey albert check out all this young talent we have now and sign him back for 10/280
you guys need to play more video games
no chance pujols returns after this year … if they couldn’t afford him before this season, they really won’t be able to afford him afterwards.
I disagree, I think there is a chance. I’m not certain how good or how poor that chance is but saying no chance is false in my opinion.
So you’re saying there’s a chance…*YEAH*!
Carpenter, Wainwright, Pujols, and Rasmus for Buehrle?
( and the entire White Sox organization as well as Kenny William’s first born child)
You need to play video games LESS.
You need to infer sarcasm MORE.
Yeah, missing sarcasm is a big weakness of mine.
I figured that every previous Cards thread has suggested trading Pujols (veto) and/or Rasmus (not happening), so why not go for broke? Trade a guy on the DL, and anyone else that makes a story.
Then throw in Holliday.
Will do as soon as he’s in an MLBTR story.
Can he pitch?
-B. Cashman
😉
Well in fairness sometimes sarcasm doesn’t translate over the internet sometimes
Apparently…
Carpenter see the writing on the wall. SL is a rebuilding franchise at best. If he wants to win he needs to get out.
And STL isn’t one of those teams that can rebuild in one season like the last time the Cubs did a full rebuild (2006), they were in the playoffs the next year. The Cardinals don’t have the money (they have a decent amount, but not big market money) or the farm to rebuild in one season.
But don’t all NL Central teams do nothing in the playoffs?
07 Cubs: Swept by Arizona
08 Cubs: Swept by Los Angeles
09 Cardinals: Swept by Los Angeles
10 Reds: Swept by Philadelphia
The only NL Central team that has won a playoff games since the Cardinals 83-win world championship season was the 08 Brewers with 1 win against Philadelphia but as a wild card team.
Really sad, since I’m a Cubs fan.
06 Cardinals: World Series Champs…
” since the Cardinals 83-win world championship season”
…
By saying he wouldn’t veto a trade doesn’t mean he wants to be traded. If a team is trying to get rid of you, why would you want to stay? I’m not saying the Cards are trying to trade him, but if they were, why would he want to be Cardinal?
Stories like these really shouldn’t be up at all this time during the season…it just spells “get. me. out. of. here.” and that’s not the attitude you want reflected to a fanbase or ownership.
This is what the Cardinals need to do. Period.
1. Sign a veteran pitcher now, Millwood or Bonnerman
2. Offer Albert a realistic extension and teel him “Hey, we want to win and we plan to with or without you so if you like playing here, take a small discount and lets all win together”. Offer him 25 mil for 10 years or 35 mil for 5. He says no.. let him walk and spend 30 elsewhere on 2 players (infielder who can actually hit.)
3. Pick up Wainwrights 2012 option, hope he comes back stronger. Watch him close and if all is good dont pick up his 2013 option. Work on a long term extension.
4. Do Not pick up Carps 2012 option. Try and rework it for less annual and 2-3 more years
5. Sign Buehrle at a discount next year, do not trade for him now.
This team is still solid with or without Pujols. Money is there its whether or not Pujols wants to pocket it or the Cards want to disburse it. They is not going to be a “re-build in St. Louis for a long time”. All they need to do is get creative with the money and fill a few holes and now patch up some losses. This club can be an elite team by 2012 if they want too. This year was suppose to be a “we will see where we are at” year anyway. No one said they were the team to watch out for such as the Phillies but if we play are Cards right we can be that team as soon as next year.
Possible Rotation for years to come:
Wainwright
Carpenter
Buehrle
Garcia
Westbrook/Lynn/Miller
Thats nasty
That rotation is not exactly nasty…Wainwright is a question mark right now because we have to wait and see how he recovers. Carpenter is 36 already, so I’m not sure exactly how many years to come you are talking about. Buehrle isn’t young either. Garcia is pretty good if he keeps improving. Miller is a good prospect so he has promise, if all goes well in his development he should be more than a 5. Lots of problems on the Cards all of a sudden.
not being snarky, just borrowing your template:
1. millwood no bonderman maybe
2. he won’t be listening to offers until after the season. what other two players are you going to spend 30 million on? specifics matter here if you’re going to rebuild the team without pujols
3. wainwright’s 2012 option cannot be exercised without also exercising his 2013 option. they go together
4. agree
5. you couldn’t trade for him anyway, and good luck with a discount in the thinnest starting pitching market in a decade
with wainwright now gone, this team is not solid with or without pujols
“wainwright
carpenter
buehrle
garcia
westrbook”
that is potentially a pretty ugly rotation for years to come. wainwright shouldn’t be expected to fully regain form until 2013. by 2013, carpenter, who may not even be retained, would be 39. buehrle should be fine through his mid thirties, but is a #3 or weak #2. garcia looks good but is not a guaranteed front-end starter. westbrook is two years older than buehrle. and is westbrook
in losing pujols, they lose 7-9 wins from one position alone (possibly to a division rival) with no clear plan on how to replace them. and the farm is currently very weak
that’s nasty. in the worrisome way
wainwright is about to have tommy john, carpenter is old but still good, buehrle is prob a 4 by now maybe a 3 in nl central, and garcia will come way back to earth this year. far from nasty plus carp wont be there next year and maybe not past july this year. midget infielders with no power and weak farm system equals poss disaster.
“Sign Buehrle at a discount”
Man, too bad there’s more than one team in the MLB!
If we are out of it by July I say try to get Montero for him.
By July Montero will be starting in the Bronx and will be off the table. The Yankees have Tony Pena, Girardi and Posada drilling him every day in catching drills. The ship has sailed to get him via trade unless Felix Hernandez hits the market.
no amount of catching drills can save montero from his fate. he is just a hitter. a really good hitter, probably, but only that
gary sanchez on the other hand…
I don’t see how anyone as smart as you can say that the possibility of Montero, at age 21, has a slim chance of becoming an average defensive catcher. Just seems like a stupid thing to say. He’s not fat. He’s not lazy. He has a great arm. They say he needs to work on his release on throw out attempts and on his foot work. Those are all things that can be worked on. Is it THAT hard to realize the level of defense that we were accustomed to from Piazza or Posada?
i love how an injury that has a remarkably high success rate where Wainwright will be back in one year means the team should rebuild. Seriously, do you guys even read what you right? Re-build? well, you can’t rebuild in 2011 with the current roster and then whats the point after that because then Wainwright is back in 2012! Seriously people, TJ SURGERY IS ONE YEAR, NOT HALF A DECADE.
one year is the exception to the 18 month rule, and it’s not reasonable to expect wainwright to come back and immediately pitch like an ace. 2013 is a reasonable forecast
without wainwright this year, the cardinals chances are not good. talk of rebuilding is not outrageous
I guess it takes a whole year for a Cy Young runner-up to remember how to pitch again? Thanks for the education.
The arrogance. There are plenty of examples of guys who have struggled after TJ surgery in terms of performance or recovery time.
JJ-recovery time-just 100 IP in 2007 and 2008
F. Liriano-performance and recovery time- 76 Ip in 2007 & 2008-5.80 ERA in 136 IP in 2009
Woods- 100 IP from 2005-2007. Never started another game, became a relief pitcher with flashes of being @ an elite level.
Carpenter-came back great but only pitched 21 innings in 2007 and 2008.
I think we all want to see him recover and recover fast but no one is hating if they keep their expectations reasonable.
Everybody is different. Maybe Liriano wasn’t working hard enough or was on a bad rehab program. As far as Woods goes I can only assume you meant Kerry Wood*. He had tons of different injuries to deal with like his knee, shoulder, and elbow. Same with Carpenter, he was dealing with other injuries, not just rehabbing his injured elbow. When Joakim Soria had his, he came back to be an all-star and established himself as one of the top closers in the game. When Josh Johnson came back a little after a year, he continued what he had done in 3006 and is now considered an ace. I’d bet anything Adam will come back as strong as ever.
2006*
you shouldn’t bet your team’s future on it is the point. you make the safe bet, and don’t count on him until 2013. there’s just too much to lose otherwise
That pointshould seem obvious but I guess some ppl just see the glass as full. No one is wishing anything bad, but even the “good” stories have shown guys who took 2 years to return to form.
I don’t think anyone is saying that they are going to be the Pittsburgh Pirates but look at reality.
a) Waino out until 2012 at least and when he returns you can’t be 100% sure where he will be in his ability.
b) Pujols is there best player and there’s no guarantee he will stay after 2011.
c) Carp is 36 and very expensive. Even if they bring him back in 2012 what will that mean if #1) Pujols isn’t back #2) Waino isn’t Cy Young Waino #3) No one else is acquired to fill the front end void left by Waino #4) No other pitchers distinguish themselves #5) Cards don’t spend major coin toquickly retool.
If Carp is brought back at age 36 and 37 what can you expect from him at his age?
The status of your best player and two best pitchers are cloudy at best. Cards have to really think about the possibility of having to retool.
Look at Liriano when he came back from his TJ. It took him a year and a half to return to a front line talent. Cards have few mlb ready arms and seem to be unwilling to go over budget for more talent. Not a great picture.
the bottom line is the cardinals looked like a contender 2 weeks ago. since then didnt re-up pujols and lost their best st pitcher and maybe best pitcher in nl /top 10 baseball. there is far more of the unknown in the cardinals organization today and the decisions they make will impact organization for years.he will be back in a year, sure maybe his arm will snap like a rubberband and get increased velocity, dont think wainwright and johnson are comparibles isnt johnson super young, but maybe his arm falls off or he is just shell of former self. either way when you are talking about replacing adam w with millwood you are in serious trouble.