White Sox left-hander Mark Buehrle said he would be willing to approve a trade, depending on the circumstances, if the South Siders were looking to deal him, writes Scott Merkin of MLB.com.
Buehrle has full no-trade protection on account of being a so-called 10-and-5 player, meaning he has 10 years of service time, the five most recent of which have come with his current team, the White Sox. Buehrle said there are teams for which he wouldn't want to play and would therefore invoke his trade veto. But he also said that he would accept certain trades if one were in the best interest of the White Sox because he is on good terms with the team and owner Jerry Reinsdorf.
"They have done enough for me," Buehrle told Merkin.
Chicago, though, is considered a strong contender in the AL Central this year and is not actively interested in trading any of its starters, according to Merkin. Buehrle, in the final season of a four-year, $56MM deal, could be an attractive in-season trade target for contending teams should the White Sox get off to a slow start and fall out of the postseason picture.
Yankees Anyone?
If the Yankees want to make an impact in the offseason, they could somehow trade for Albert Pujols or trade for the White Sox ace.
Pujols has already said that he will veto any trade proposals…
NOMAHHHHHH
And your point is?
NOMAH is a point.
That has no bearing on Pujols almost constant recitation that he will revoke ANY trade proposal.
No one said the point had to make any sense 😉
you are not thinking about this the right way. consider this,
NOMAHHHH GUY
Ahh, Fail on my part.
nah no fail. just a bit of whoosh
DUDE KED IT’S NOMAAAAAAAHHHH
Who’s Nomah?
Mia Hamm’s Caddy!
Nomar Garciaparra. “Nomah” is what his name sounds likes when spoken with an exaggerated Boston accent.
Thanks! Would never have known!
Unless Pujols can pitch, he’d be wasted money. Besides, the Yanks already have an expensive 1B locked up long term & I doubt either of them would be happy DH’ing.
Joba and Granderson works for me, Joba cant seem to handle the bright lights of NY
mark buehrle+carlos quentin for joba and either bret gardner or curtis granderson….joba would go into the bullpen and coop can fix him. sale steps into the rotation and thornton is the closer…if the sox get gardner or granderson they play right and provide a nice left handed bat to bat 2nd or lead off….bret lead off with juan batting second or juan leading off with curtis batting second. Slot carlos to right field move swisher to left and either gardner moves to Cf or curtis stays there
its actually a decent move for both team….obviously with gardner the sox would probably have to eat some salary but if it were granderson then salaries could match up pretty close
No thanks for Quentin. Gardner and Granderson are of more importance to the Yankees then Quentin would be.
I like this deal for both the Yankees and White Sox. Yankees get the starter they need with Quentin a wild card. Sox deal from surplus and fill two areas of need. Joba still has good upside. He pitched well the second half. Granderson also improved in the second half (but Gardner could fill his spot nicely & cheaply in CF). Yankees OF defense would take a hit for sure, but the Yankees biggest need by far is starting pitching and Buehrle would fit that need admirably.Win-Win.
Of course he meantions this RIGHT as Wainright goes down. You know, because he’d love to pitch for the Cardinals and all. ANYTHING TO HELP THE WHITESOX WIN ;D
I would LOVE to have Mark Buerhle pitch for us. I’d think he’d do great.
St. Louis is going to replace Wainright with Joe Blanton in the short term, watch. If Buerhle is available in July & STL is still in the race, then maybe.
Joe Blanton will not happen unless the Phillies cover his contract, The Cards just can’t take it on with Albertageddon coming up after this season.
He’s makes more sense now than he did 24 hours ago. The problem is that the White Sox are a little short on starting pitching, with Peavy still being questionable.
The Cardinals would have to pay a huge price to get Buehrle for 2011.
not really. every time peavy throws more and more scouts are impressed with him. Dr. James Andrews(the TJ guy) gave him a clean bill of health and said he is ok to resume full baseball activities right before spring training. and with chris sale being there is peavy is even 90% ready by opening day there could be a pitcher who is expendable….trade buehrle and quentin for a real outfielder and slot sale into the rotation….peavy-danks-jackson-sale-floyd…bring lucas harrel up from the minors to fill in for peavy if need be for a bit…trade buehrle to one of these teams….idealy the cards for rasmus(maybe even swing a holliday deal with some money being moved wishful thinking i know it wont happen but a guy can dream..the sox get holliday and some cash, the cards get quentin, buehrle, vicedio haha again i know it wont happen)…..the yankees again along with quentin for joba and granderson……the mets for beltran(he probably wont approve)……..dodgers for kemp(again probably wont approve)
Rasmus is too good, cheap, and young for the Cards to be enticed to trade him, I think. Kemp is under control through arb after next year so I don’t think he has any veto rights, but I think it’s moot since the Dodgers don’t need pitching. As for the Yankees, I think it’s interesting and I would probably make that deal. Granderson isn’t good against LHP and with Soriano, Joba is more expendable. I have concerns about Quienten’s health, but if can stay healthy and have a more league average BABIP, he could have a great year, and with Buehrle at the 4 , I think the Yankee rotation would be able to at least repeat last season’s numbers.
I’m rooting for Peavy. I like the guy with his attitude and work ethic. However, I will accept the fact he is back when he returns to his Padre form, and sustains it for a few months. There is a very realistic possibility that he may never be the same.
Also, for as great as Sale looks, he has not started a game since high school. Turning him into a starter at this level and asking him to get you into the 7th inning every 5th day may or may not work out.
The Sox are not obligated to save the Cards. If I were Kenny, I would stay the course.
HUH? Sale started in college and has always been a starter until his MLB career.
Chris Sale was one of the top LH start pitchers in the draft last year. His change up was graded as a plus pitch as was his fastball along with an average slider. He started in the BP his freshman year and moved into the rotation his Sophomore and junior years.
I’m just not sure if Sale is ready to be counted on for a different reason….he’s only thrown 40 innings as a professional!! Yes, he was great in the BP last year but things change when you have to face guys 3 times and make adjustments, and his FB would not play up into the upper 90’s as a starter.
OK. We’ll take Rasmus though.
BALTIMORE!
He said for the right fit, it’s in the title — Baltimore has no starting pitching and a worse bullpen, why would he go there?
I doubt Baltimore contends but perhaps with Buehrle a wild-card would be possible. To Say Baltimore has NO pitching is an exaggeration. Guthrie,Matusz and lots of closing experience in the pen.
lol
Are you high? Guthrie (3.83 11-14) is BAL’s ace. Matusz (4.30) is the #2 & Duchschere is their #3 and he’s only pitched over 100 IP once in his career. Gregg and Gonzalez? Are you kidding me. Yeah, I stand by my earlier point: Baltimore has garbage pitching.
I doubt he would accept that one
Wainwright may be gone for the year and all of a sudden, Buehrle is willing to be traded? Coincidence?
Yeah, my first thought exactly. Must be a coincidence.
Except CHW wont even consider trading him till July…
actually he has never said that he wouldn’t approve a trade. A writer more than likely asked him about the possibility of a trade to the cards now that adam is down
If we get rasmus take buehrle and quentin
Yeah not very realistic.
to give up Rasmus, cards would need a pretty good prospect
Would Buehrle+Quentin+ Jared Mitchell + B Level be enough for Rasmus?
And play Quentin where?
fine, they will give you Quentin and their LF position meaning Cards have LF1 & LF2. 10 players on field, and pitcher doesn’t hit. Also, Sox have 8 players on field and the pitcher hits. Sound fair?
the cardinals would have 4 left fielders with Quentin, Berkman, Holliday and Jay whose best position is LF.
Hey, with 4 left fielders, who needs CFers or RFers? Think of how Dunn’s defense could improve if there were six of him on the field… he’d still probably have a ton of errors.
That would actually be worse. They would all be tripping over and running into each other.
worse for who? I pay to see slapstick, that’d be better!
on the team they flip him to
I’d really hate to give up Rasmus. At the all star break last year he was leading the league in OPS, and for most of the year led for all CF in OPS. Once he pulls it all together I think he will be a perennerial all star. Any package that included Rasmus would have to include Sale and then some.
sale and then some? no…sale for rasmus straight up maybe …not saying i want to do this deal but i think their value is even. Rasmus has the potential to an all star CF#3 hitter sale has the potential to be a top of the rotation starter or at the least an elite closer
Rasmus and Sale are NOT even in value. How in the world would one come to the conclusion that they are? Career potential? Sorry, I just can’t connect the dots here.
Rasmus is NOT that good. Kenny would be crucified if he did that.
lol
I think you are completely over valuing Rasmus…
the white sox hate those
Buehrle + vicedio+ either mitchel or Jordan danks and cash for Colby. It gives the cards a 1st base back up if they lose Albert and a center field prospect
this junk again? I thought the fact that there was zero rumors about trading Rasmus and them signing a defensively challenged Berkman sort of made it clear as day Rasmus isn’t getting traded….
It’s just that if the Cards want to land Buehrle they’d have to trade one of Rasmus, Miller, or Cox, (maybe Sanchez, depending on how high the ChiSox are on him)…
The other thing I guess is to trade a bunch of guys — pure quantity. Salas, Green, Descalso, Hamilton, etc… And then spinning that quantity into some talent that the ChiSox would want.
Maybe the Cards could do it if Buerhle agreed to restructure his contract through an extension. Given his love for the Redbirds, that’s not out of the question I don’t think. But why would the Sox trade Buerhle unless they were overwhelmed with what they were getting in return? He’s a great pitcher, not exactly something that comes cheap…
you are correct in everything you just said. My hope is if/when Buerhle is a free agent, we can sign him for nothing instead of giving up prospects. I’m assuming the ChiSox decline to offer arbitration for fear of having to pay him about 18million in 2012.
I don’t know about the ChiSox declining to offer arb, cuz I think someone would sign him. But I know the Cards won’t give up a top draft choice to get him (He’s type A FA right?).
Colby is not being moved. That’s it. End of conversation. Trust me, I want him as much as you do but it’s just not realistic.
This guy has proclaimed his love of the Cardinals so many times, its just about a done deal. Funny timing how this gets written as soon as Wainwright is lost for the season…
Not really “just about a done deal” He’s starting the season with the White Sox.
It’s not a done deal until the ChiSox sign off on it. And given the Cards hesitancy to trade any of their young guys (Rasmus, Miller, Cox, etc…) there’s not much incentive for Chicago to even consider a trade with StL.
Unless the Chisox are looking for salary relief, which I doubt.
Zack Cox and Eduardo Sanchez for Mark Buehrle and cash.
As a Cardinals fan, I’d say yes right now.
That is if he stays at 3rd base.
Zack Cox? No way that happens, But Eduardo Sanchez could definitely be in the mix along with Lance Lynn/Kyle McClellan.
You mean Kyle McClellan.
Haha, Oops. I just drafted Ryan Zimmerman in a mock, so I got the first names mixed up.
The White Sox don’t really need a bullpen arm at this moment and Lance Lynn looks like an innings-eater tops TO Me, how about Martinez/Blair and Sanchez for Buehrle and cash? Yeah, Cox seemed unrealistic.
Lynn is a back end of the rotation guy, maybe a 3rd starter ceiling. Blair is less developed, still an A ball prospect I think, but envisioned with the same ceiling. Although people think he’s not going to hold up as a starter, so you’re looking at Ryan Franklin 2.0. Martinez might hold some interest but he’s such a raw talent (great tools!), I don’t know that the Sox would bite.
Sanchez is future closer material. No doubt about it. He’d could be in this deal and the Cards would have to be sold on either Boggs/Motte becoming closer.
I think a Motte/Boggs + Lynn (4th starter material ETA 2012) + Hamilton (1B/DH Adam Dunn-esque ETA 2012) gets it done. Motte/Boggs could be spun later for another player who holds more interest to the ChiSox. Who’s looking for RHRP?
Martinez has ridiculous raw tools…one year of buerhle and adding in Blair…i’d rather wait till he is a free agent and accept this might be a down year. Re-tool next year. Not re-build, re-tool.
Dunno why that was a response to me. But I certainly agree.
A Buerhle trade is a real longshot.
I think Millwood is more likely. I’d get Millwood in on a minor league contract that vests into a solid major league contract if he makes the club (say $5 million?). If not, give him an opt out clause. Don’t know if he’d bite, but right now the guy is out of a job. He’d be given a chance to work his way on to a contender. Should be easy if he’s sharp and eager to prove something.
**Two years of Buehrle. His option for 2012 vests if he is traded.
Cox cannot be traded until 1 full year after signing (I think he could be a PTOBNL, but I’m not sure)
Correct, and the same with Chris Sale. Also PTBNL can only be un-named for 90 days, so you would not be able to complete a trade realistically this year until after the end of June. Teams typically do not like to do PTBNL for too long, especially if those players are actively playing (and could get hurt).
Eduardo Sanchez is the pseudonym Kenny Powers father goes by in Mexico.
You got yourself a deal, tell Mark to come on over
cox can’t be traded and i’m not interested in mortgaging the future.
Must be a pretty sad day for a Cardinals fan.
Yep, The Nick Punto injury was devastating.
i’m not crying but it definitely stings.
cox can be traded, but shouldn’t be
He’s from Missouri, he probably saw the chance to say he wants to go to the Cardinals after he heard of Wainwright’s incident.
St. Chuck to be exact.
Up the street and around the corner from me to be exact lol
I wonder how much Buehrle paid the doctors to advise Wainwright to undergo TJ…
White Sox would be wise to keep that rotation together for as long as possible. Now that it’s paired with a awesome offense that rotation has serious potential to propel them to first place in the AL Central
Cardinals don’t have prospects to give and they are not parting with Rasmus for a player who is going to be a FA soon and who’s thinking of retiring at the end of his contract.
Jaime Garcia for Buehrle?
And the Cardinals would do this why?
because one step forward and two steps back feels like dancing!
First time I actually physically laughed at a MLBTR comment..
To get a good pitcher so they don’t need to worry about Wainwright being gone for a year or the Reds winning the NL Central again this year, thats why.
You really think that Garcia for Buehrle straight up makes sense for the Cardinals? A young, cost controlled, almost ROY last year for an older soon to be FA who costs millions more? The Cardinals future rotation revolves around Wainwright (after his TJ surgery) Garcia, and Shelby Miller.
Burhele is a slightly above average pitcher at best. If Wainwright is out they’re going to need all the potentially talented arms they can get. The trade makes absolutely no sense.
Jaime Garcia is a good pitcher, It’s pretty much a exact swap, with Jaime being cheaper at the moment.
Thank you for understanding my point.
Garcia can’t take over Wainwright’s spot for an entire season, he’s only been in the majors since last year. Thats why the Cards need to make a move for a solid pitcher, which is why I threw out Buehrle’s name since he sounds like he wants to go there.
No one is saying Buehrle to the Cards doesn’t make sense….it the idea that the Cards would give up Garcia for him that doesn’t.
cheaper younger (harder better faster stronger) controlled for longer with higher upside
And the idea is for the Cards to IMPROVE the overall rotation, not just one spot. Whoever they bring in needs to complement CC, Garcia, Westbrook and Lohse, not replace them (ok maybe Lohse).
But now that I think about it how much cash would the White Sox have to send to St. Louis considering Albert Pujols’ upcoming most lucrative contract in history?
Well I doubt you have to worry about that, as someone above said it make no sense for a team like the White Sox to trade away any of their starters right now. Unless a team, oh let’s go out on a limb and say Burhele wants to go to the Cards, offers to pay Burhele’s whole contract and give instant helpful pieces then there will be no trade.
After 100 comments, finally one that makes sense. Neither the Cards nor Sox want to take on more salary, so any trade would have to be even, right now, both financially and on the field. At that point, what is the point?
If I’m Buehrle I would accept a trade too, to any team really. His option for $16mil vest as soon as he is traded.
Actually according to Cot’s that option ended July 2010, unless you have another source. Besides, I think he’d not want an option to kick in, unless Sabathia joins in next years FA pitchers market looks pretty bleak.
I checked Cot’s and didn’t see the option expired, only that he got a 10-5 NTC. I don’t know if getting a 10-5 NTC voids this clause but B-R still list the option.
I don’t see Buehrle getting more than $16mil anually even if Sabathia doesn’t opt out. He’s pitched so many inning and thrown so many pitch that arm could fall off any time.
“2009 – July 15, 2010: limited no-trade protection allowing Buehrle to block trades to certain unspecified clubs. A trade triggers an escalator paying $1M raise to $15M annually, plus a guaranteed fifth year paying $15M for 2012.
July 16, 2010-2011: Buehrle may not be traded without his permission, under right as 10-and-5 player”
Straight from Cot’s.
As everyone says, It’s no coincidence this comes right after the Wainwright deal. But the Sox are “all in”. Granted, Buehrle is no stud anymore, but any downgrade in the rotation could severly hamper their chances (especially if Peavy won’t be ready). However, the Cards may be desperate, but the only way I see a Buehrle deal working out is if the Sox got Rasmus/Garcia, and that is obviously a ton for a guy past his prime.
And the Cardinals want to build around Rasmus and Garcia as part of their future core…makes more sense to just stick it out this year than to trade away budding superstars.
Just put Sale down in Charlotte for a month and go with a 4 man rotation if necessary. Peavy/Danks/Jackson/Floyd/Sale is a pretty good rotation, assuming Buehrle gets traded near the deadline. That being said, I doubt that the White Sox will trade Buehrle until they are completely out of contention.
You think Peavy will hold up pitching every 4th day?
Depends on the schedule… The Cards went with a 4 man rotation for about a month last year when they set down Garcia. They only needed 2 spot starts from Suppan (who actually pitched really well in his brief return to StL under Duncan… surprises me he didn’t come back in 2011).
Maybe that’s how this whole mess with Wainwright started… either that or you can believe TLR’s story (he slept on it funny)…
Is Peavy even going to be ready to pitch before June?
I agree. Without Buehrle and Peavy, the rotation would be really thin. Kenny would want a starter coming back in any deal for Buehrle,which is why a deal with the Cards would be tough.
Not only past his prime, but in a walk year. Why would *anybody* give up young MLB-level talent (potential All-Stars at that) for a RENTAL?!?!!
Isn’t Buehrle from St. Charles?
Yup.
If they could find a trade that works with out giving up too much it might not be a bad idea.
Cards are pretty deep in pitching prospects.
Deep in RHRP prospects. Our starters are pretty thin after Miller and Lynn (Maybe Blair?).
Jenkins and Martinez should be starters. Thats sort of reaching though as there so far off but i felt the need to include them as you mentioned blair.
Yes.
I wonder if the Sox would be interested in Jason Motte/Jon Jay/Eduardo Sanchez. This enables them to put Sale in the rotation. Motte can close. Jay adds outfield depth which they could use. He’s an immediate upgrade over De Aza.
A rotation of Floyd, Danks, Peavy, Jackson, and Sale is still very formidable.
The Cardinals meanwhile would have Carpenter, Buehrle, Westbrook, Garcia, and Lohse – also very formidable.
The White Sox are the long-range winners securing years of back-end bullpen security for an aging pitcher who probably wasn’t going to return anyway.
The Cardinals are short-term winners as they will still be in the playoff hunt and probably still the favorite to win the NL Central. They also can use this move to show Albert that they will always do what it takes to stay competitive.
Cardinals pen survives with Salas, Batista, K-Mac, Boggs, Franklin, Tallet, and T. Miller
Not sure how the money shakes out, though.
Peavy’s status is relatively unknown at this point, Sale hasn’t started a game yet, not even in the minor leagues. Not taking anything away from Jay, but he doesn’t seem like anything special. We really don’t need another bullpen arm but I do like Eduardo Sanchez. Blair/Sanchez would do it for me, IMO.
oh and did I mention Wainwright returns in time to close games in the playoffs and rescue the Cardinals from Ryan Franklin as he did when he took over for Izzy in ’06. Sweetness.
How do you know that?
???
I thought it was pretty evident that this was just wishful thinking. I’ll try to be more outlandish with my daydreams going forward.
Wow, where this come from?!
Just throwing this out there…what about a trade with Sale and rasmus as the core?
I highly advise you don’t throw that out there. Every time a Rasmus comment appears (a) Cardinals fan(s) get(s) pissed off. From prior experience.
When they don’t make much sense, you’re going to get negative feedback. This one is rather vague though, so maybe it can be worked with…
This would be fine, except the Cards would have a huge hole in CF now, not to mention missing a big bat. If the Cards got a decent bat at 3rd, 2nd, or SS, you could justify losing Rasmus’ bat and replacing it with speed and defense in CF…
So maybe you’d see something like Rasmus and Schumaker for Sale, Beckham, and a CF (If Pierre could still play center, he’d be the type you’re looking at…) at the core of the deal. Money and maybe a low level prospect from the Chisox might make this work. But it’s still a real long shot and it’d be a lot of scouting work to be done. Good part is, the ChiSox already scouted the mess out of Rasmus, so that’s one player down. Don’t know how high the Cards are on Beckham or Sale though…
Yeah, Kenny Williams would lose his head if he traded Sale AND Beckham.
its sort of hard to keep a cool when people are attacking like angry bees at the first signs of a chance to go bottom feeding on a guy who isn’t available.
Not just Cards fans. Any student of baseball gets irritated.
Rasmus is a heart-of-the-order guy, talent, and CHEAP. There’s alot to like about him. And Holliday-Rasmus are the extent of the offense in life-after-Pujols for the Cards.
The idea that the Cards would give up Colby for Buehrle (an expensive, declining rental player) is just completely offensive.
If you want to talk about reasonable value for Rasmus, you need to start with Sale. While Sale has monster upside, he’s still proven less in the majors than Rasmus – and their value is much closer than Buehrle-Rasmus.
Hmmm…..that’s quite an interesting trade actually (even though Sale would have to be a PTBNL).
no.
Why? And from which team? I really have no idea what I would say in this case.
From the cards, and because Colby is going to be re-signed long term once we lose Albert.
Oh ok. From the Sox point of view, I would probably take the trade since they only appear to value him as a reliever at the moment, and even though they SHOULD move him back to starter, a successful season in the pen may make them want to leave him there, and I would rather have a stud CF over a stud reliever any day.
Lol well from a Sox point of view I agree with you, but I happen to like our center fielder and the Cards have a stock pile of relievers and pitching prospects in the minors.
Colby Rasmus is a popular guy around here
I know so guy named Ryan who could use a pitcher of Buehrle’s caliber. They might give up a little to. Contender, Eh?
considering the sox DO see sale as a starter in the long run they are using him in the pen this up coming season because it helps the team more now to have him in the pen then down in the minors. It also allows sale to get eased into the bigs(it makes sense its the old way of doing things) And the sox do have a very good CF in rios who is expensive and under contract for many years.
nelson cruize and tommy hunter for buehrle and carlos
The Cards probably won’t pick up Wainwright’s options if he has TJ surgery. How about Buerhle for Wainwright. The White Sox can take the $21 mil chance the Cards can’t afford…
Not that I would want to do this at all, but could you even trade a player on the DL? I could be wrong but I thought there was a rule against that.
Chisox did trade for peavy in 2009 when he was still on the dl. I think it just needs approval from the commish?
I see the Mariners being interested in Buehrle… I don’t know what the White Sox would ask for but i am sure Jack Z can work something out, a good left hander behind King Felix.
Why would anyone want to leave a contender to go to Seattle right now? Seattle needs a power LH bat, not more pitching.
I believe Buehrle has a guaranteed player option that kicks in if the Sox deal him, for something like 18 million in 2012, keep that in mind. Whichever team would acquire him *has* to pick up that option for 2012
Once his 10 and 5 rights kicked in, that option expired.
The proble I see is that the Cards don’t have much to tempt anyone on the mlb level and they have a thin minor lge system as well and probably shouldn’t even think about giving up guys like Miller or Jenkins. I think a good idea might be to bite the bullet and look for a salary dump candidate like Kazmir. They should be able to get him for nothing as long as they are willing to eat his salary. Reagins should be happy to get rid of him as well. Duncan has shown an ability to right the wrong in a pitcher and I’m sure Kazmir is motivated to listen.
What about a trade with the Cubs for Zambrano?
sweet christ, some of you people..
Buehrle gets traded and he gets an extra guaranteed year at $15 million and another $1 million on top of his salary this year. Trade? Why the heck not.
What the **** is going on here?
Buehrle is in a walk-year. Why are Sox fans talking about getting a Rasmus for him? You’re drastically over-valuing him. He’s a #3 pitcher for St. Louis. And trading him in July? Why would ANYBODY pay more than B-level prospects for 15 starts out of a rental?
Because Sox fans think the world of their core players. Watch a Sox telecast and Hawk Harrelson will try to convince you that the Sox have 6 or 7 Hall of Famers on the field. Didn’t you know A.J. is one of the finest catchers in all of baseball?
The people suggesting Buehrle for Rasmus are the same people last year that were saying they would not trade Beckham for Adrian Gonzalez, straight up.
You waited longer than usual to chime in.
I agree people are over-valuing Mark right now. My only justifications of it are 1) if the Cardinals want to compete, they need another solid, inning-eating veteran starter (Buerhle just happens to have a soft spot in his heart for StL) and 2) as someone said earlier, and I agree, if the Cardinals want to keep Pujols, they need to show that they are willing to make bold moves to keep the team competitive while he’s there.
That all being said, StL trading Rasmus is ridiculous, he’s too good now, not to mention his future value (especially at CF). Too many ChiSox readers on this site saw the post that the CWS were interested in Rasmus, and they immediately assume Kenny will trade for him without thinking if it’s realistic or logical, which it is not.
When Buehrle is pitching well, it’s because the defense behind him is also playing well. Removing Rasmus and having an outfield of Jay, Holliday and Berkman is a disaster.
Even if the Sox were somehow able to get Rasmus, they would have to move Quentin. This move would devalue Quentin incredibly and getting anything of value for him would be over. There are too many problems in the idea of trading Buehrle and pieces/cash for Rasmus and piece, and I wish that people would stop suggesting it’s inevitability.
I wish more Sox guys were as rational as you. We can actually have an adult conversation…
If I’m St. Louis, and I’m looking to get a mid-rotation guy, my first call goes to Cleveland and checking on Carmona. My second call goes to the owner, to get an extra $5M for Millwood. Both of those don’t cost me a middle-of-the-order hitter (who happens to be good, young, improving, and very cheap). Then I’m calling non-contenders who will give up a starter for something less than Rasmus (who is probably their most-valuable trade piece, when you consider how barren their farm is and his talent-to-cost ratio).
Believe me, every fan base has their “video-game” / illogical fans. I don’t know if you read all the comments, but one writer suggested trading Buehrle AND QUENTIN to the StL. I don’t know how someone could even suggest that, knowing Berkman and Holliday are already in RF and LF, respectively.
I agree with you on Millwood completely, but in terms of Carmona now, I think if StL calls Cleveland, they’ll immediately call the Yankees and start a bidding war. I know Pavano wanted to stay in Minn, but I half-expected StL to push for him hard.
Speaking of Minn, we’ve got extra pitchers, and our GM has been known to trade decent guys for spare parts.
If you’re St. Louis, do you get Buehrle at the expense of Rasmus, or a Nick Blackburn at the cost of a few average relief arms? Granted, Nick doesn’t have the stuff Buehrle does, but he’s cheaper, under contract a few extra years, and doesn’t cost nearly as much.
The point is, the Cards have PLENTY of options to get a servicable pitcher that do NOT include giving up their future star.
Everything depends on 1 thing – Do the Cardinals do whatever they can to try to win the NL Central? The Reds and Brew Crew are solid teams (especially with Grienke and Marcum in the MIL rotation); if StL wants to show Pujols that they want him for good, and are willing to put the right pieces around him, they’ll overspend for a top rotation pitcher. Otherwise they piece-meal it with young guys or FA veterans, like Millwood.
As for Blackburn, he has shown good stretches of pitching here and there, but he’s been mediocre for 3 full seasons. At age 29, although cheap, I do not think StL is interested in him, imo.
But there’s the problem. If they were to send off Rasmus, who else is in their offense besides Holliday? Rasmus is their third-best offensive weapon.
Rasmus had a 3.5 WAR last season. He’s projected around 4.1 for 2011.
Buerhle had a 3.8 WAR last season. He’s projected around 3.3 for 2011.
These are two players moving in opposite directions. The Cardinals would most likely win FEWER games in a Buehrle-Rasmus trade (and certainly they would beyond 2011). It’s not even a move that makes sense in a win-now mode.
They just had 6.1 WAR get sidelined. They need to make that up, and they’re not going to do it by giving up more WAR in Buehrle-Rasmus. They’re only going to be able to recoup 2-3 pts of WAR if they do something that does NOT include shipping off Rasmus.
Pujols does not seem to care much about the team around him. He wants big $$$, and if the team is a depleted roster around him, so be it. The cards need to make wise FINANCIAL moves, so they can pay him in the fall, if that is what they want. Buehrle cannot possibly fit into that equation. Now, if it is me, I am trading Albert in July to the highest bidder…
Buehrle has 2 years left if he is traded.
Am I too late for the first “Pujols and/or Rasmus for Buehrle” suggestion? 🙂
Pujols vetoes trades, Rasmus doesn’t get traded.
I see Buehrle re-upping with the Sox this summer more than him being dealt.
He’s on the downside of his career, maybe he’d take a deal for 3 at 10/8/6.
within a day of wainright going down mark says i would accept a trade with the right fit. yankees fans dont get it, this guy has longed to be a cardinal for years and has a lot to do with his known hatred for the cubs. buerle for rasmus straight up, cardinals better realize they are in win now mode
If the Cards are open to trading Rasmus, they’re going to get alot more than a mid-rotation rental. They could get that from Cleveland with Carmona. Or go and sign Millwood (moving a couple scrubs to clear payroll space).
Nobody gives up a blossoming young talent for a rental. You Sox fans are completely delusional.
Not ALL Sox fans. Some of us know this would never happen. Not only are the Cards not motivated, but why would the Sox deplete their rotation right now, unless they are being overpaid? If Sox are out of it at the deadline, then they could make a move. But the cards need a pitcher NOW, and on the cheap. Buehrle for a good young cheap player from the Cards is a non-starter.
i am a cubs fan. i saw somewhere cards have 6 years control of rasmus which is huge, thought they had like 3 years control left will never happen unless johnny mo really screws up. from an organizational standpoint i love the twins and thank them for dominating the division for the past decade
Factually, why would St. Louis trade a young, developing potential superstar who is under team salary control for another 6 years, for a very expensive 1 year rental of an average pitcher whose contract is up.
It’s almost the exact equivalent of the Cubs offering Ryan Dempster for Gordan Beckham, if the Sox suddenly needed another starter.
Do you think Kenny would make theat deal?
Buerle for Dice-K? Sounds great, but I doubt it happens.
Oh god, please, no.
I know this reads Buehrle above but…… Edwin Jackson and Carlos Quentin for Colby Rasmus and a minor leaguer. White Sox move Sale to the rotation. User Crain or Santos as the setup guy.
No way the Cardinals do that. MAYBE if Edwin was under contract for 3-4 years they would consider it if the Sox threw in like Flowers or Heidenrich or some mid-level prospect, but considering Edwin is on his last year, no way the Cards give up Rasmus for that.
Please realize that the Cardinals in no way want Quentin, unless something happens to Holliday and/or Berkman. There’s no DH and the thought of Q or Holliday playing CF is laughable.
The White Sox slogan for this year is “We’re All In”. Why on earth would the Sox trade Buehrle at this point? Mid season is a different story if they do tank (which I can’t see happening).
finally someone realizes whats up here. and as far as buehrle declining, i’m curious what metrics some of you are looking at, as he’s been one of the most consistent starters in baseball.
Twins could use another arm.