Seven years ago today, the Yankees signed Eduardo Nunez as a free agent out of the Dominican Republic. Now 23, Nunez is in the mix to be New York's utility infielder in 2011 after hitting .280/.321/.360 with more walks (three) than strikeouts (two) in his brief big league debut last season (53 PA).
Here are some more notes that have to do with the Yanks and their fellow AL East clubs…
- Joel Sherman of The New York Post reports that the Yankees "have told their scouts to bear down on several teams they think could have starters available" in a trade this summer. The teams they are targeting include the Braves, Angels, A's, White Sox, and Cardinals according to Sherman.
- Jayson Werth told SI.com's Jon Heyman that he had a "great" meeting with the Red Sox earlier this offseason, after which he figured they would offer six years (Twitter link). They only offered five, so he ended up with the Nationals.
- Carl Pavano spoke to Kelsie Smith of The Pioneer Press about being pursued by the Yankees this offseason. "I don't think [the past] would be a hindrance, but there would have definitely been obstacles," said Pavano. "I'm not naïve enough to think that there wouldn't have been things I would have had to overcome, especially the trust of the fans and maybe some of the guys that were there. That's reality."
- Richard Griffin of The Toronto Star notes (on Twitter) that four of the Blue Jays' ten highest paid players are former closers: Jason Frasor, Frank Francisco, Jon Rauch, and Octavio Dotel.
- When asked about the payroll disparity between his Rays and other teams in the division, Joe Maddon told Ken Davidoff of Newsday that he's "never seen a dollar bill throw a strike, or hit a homer, or whatever." (Twitter link)
I like Werth, but in six years im sure im going to like Crawford a a whole lot more.
Amen
Agreed.
You Sox fans love the Kool-Aid. Crawford’s .320 on base percentage to go with his 9 homers this season will be worth every penny.
All I can really say is LOL.
Lol ya 9 homers ya right. More like 15. I’m gonna take a wild guess, but are you a jealous Yankees fan? By the way, how is Cliff Lee looking in spring trai… Never mind.
PS- Who’s the loser that liked your comment?
Eh..Not sure Cliff is looking too hot in spring training at the moment. Last I checked they are resting his side. Regarding Crawford – that contract was a tremendous overpay. As many others have stated, he best assets are his legs and it seems highly unlikely he’s the same player 5 years from now. I still don’t understand why the Sox paid what they did. From a defensive standpoint, he has been compared to Brett Garnder, and that is for 143.5mm less. Further, Crawford talking smack about the Yanks and Angels this week probably don’t help matters much. The Angels were prudent by making a max bid of around $108mm. Frankly, I think they lucked out in long run.
Don’t Compare Crawford and Gardner, that’s a joke. If you look at the numbers, they are not close. Crawford has better speed, BA, Homers, RBI’s and much more. And what were you expecting Crawford to get?
$80mm-$90mm over 5 years would have been far more appropriate. Fine, don’t agree, but I am not using the “Werth got this” or “so and so got that” argument. I never considered Crawford a standout super star type. A very good complimentary player, yes, but if the word overvalued could ever be used, I think this is probably one of those scenarios.
I know part of what your saying is because your a Yankees fan. And your not very smart, comparing Crawford to Gardner.
Coming from a NYY fan that has Rodriquez and Jeter as classic examples of overpay and next winter, adding another finished Yankee veteran Posada to that list once the Steinbrenner duet gets involved.. Just go ahead and school Boston on “overpay” there Century.. Please do..
Okay, here’s the deal. Yankees spend a lot. They overpay. We get it. You’re not breaking any news here. However, the topic at hand was about Boston overpaying, right? So why must you [guys] get all aggressive when questioned about it? Is there some law that states we cannot talk about one team without drawing a comparison to the other? It’s getting quite childish, if you ask me.
Childishness begets childishness. I don’t think it’s much that people think that Crawford isn’t an overpay so much as the fact a notorious Yankee troll (And you’ve certainly been around long enough to see how much of a troll the above individual is) is throwing around statements about players being overpaid. It shows enormous levels of hypocrisy.
Please keep in mind that Century isn’t a Yankee owner or GM. He was expressing his opinion, whether it was rooted in intelligence or not. The only way he is a hypocrite is if he goes around denying that Yankee players aren’t overpaid.
Yeah, I’ll echo what YFS78 said. He isn’t being hypocritical because he never said that Yankees are NOT overpaid. And yes, I remember the flame wars from a few months back, but my thing is, focus on the argument, not the person. His argument is not that far fetched, but everybody jumped all over him because of his past. Many may feel justified in their actions of doing so, but I beg to differ.
some players are better “looking” as fantacy players, others are better as “real” players. Crawford’s real value is in fantacy baseball. as a real player he is only a notch above Gardner.
If you’re going to call a Sox outfielder a “fantasy value” player, cite it as Ellsbury (All steals, poor defense). Crawford brings good average, well above average speed, decent power and elite defense to the table which translates more in terms of usefulness to “on the field” than on a fantasy baseball spreadsheet.
Dude, reading comprehension, please. Or the whole “not very smart” comment turns quite ironic, no? He clearly said “From a defensive standpoint, he has been compared to Brett Garnder, and that is for 143.5mm less.”
but still no, since the salary difference is because gardner isn’t even arbitration eligible, not because a player of that defensive caliber isn’t worth big bucks
So? You’re reading too much into it. The bottom line is that Gardner is making millions less and providing defense comparable to Crawford. That was the point. Offense is a total different issue, and that’s where Crawford’s worth is coming from, everybody knows that… but that wasn’t the point.
srs? his bat is good, but most of crawford’s worth is actually coming from his defense. and gardner’s 2010 bat isn’t that far off of from crawford’s anyway
to reiterate, the only reason gardner is making so much less is because of the difference in their respective career stages. so it doesn’t make any sense at all to imply that gardner’s team-controlled salary suggests anything about what crawford’s market-determined free agent salary should be
Yes I get that. However, he’s still making a lot less (because he’s team controlled) for comparable defense. You agree. End of story.
We’re not talking about market value or pre arbitration years or any of that. We’re talking about their current salary and level of defense. Big disparity in paycheck, not so much with defense. I’m not “implying” anything like you are, or reading into the future. I’m saying, RIGHT NOW, Gardner is making millions less but playing comparable defense.
“I still don’t understand why the Sox paid what they did. From a defensive standpoint, he has been compared to Brett Garnder, and that is for 143.5mm less.” It sure sounds like Century was implying that Crawford was overpaid because of what Gardner is paid, and Century’s comments are what prompted the responses, so regardless of what YOU meant the responses were warranted because that is what Century seemingly meant.
Huh?
sure, but i have no idea what the point of making that observation for its own sake could be
carl crawford is 6’2” and brett gardner is 5’10. they both play left field, but they are much different heights. i’m not implying anything at all. i’m just saying that this is a fact
yea, so?
And if most of Crawford’s value comes from defense, Boston definitely overpaid by a whole lot because that LF can make average LFers look like all stars. He’s being wasted there. Move him to CF!
seems intuitive, but are we sure a left field that makes bad players look better won’t make a great player look greater? i’m not
i’d loooove to move crawford to centerfield, though
Just wanted to say thanks for defending some of what I said. Regardless if my “level of intelligence” is acceptable on this forum, everyone should be allowed to have their own opinion. And yes, you’re correct, I put emphasis on the two players defense, which I think most people in the baseball world would agree, is comparable. It wasn’t a complicated statement. I read the site daily and even if I am not involved in these discussions, I always see the Red Sox fans shoot down a lot of the things other people say. It’s just the way it works here.
No problem. Had the sides been reversed, I would have said the same. I think you had a valid argument, shot down ad hominem. And that’s not cool.
PS: Saw Gardner rob Ryan Howard of that HR today? haha
I just got back from a meeting and literally just tuned in. I’ll hopefully see a replay later. Dude, sometimes it’s so hard to comment on here. Granted, I’ll be the first to admit that my commenting style is unorthodox and yeah, my tone at times can spur confrontation, but I don’t make outlandish remarks. It’s not like I am completely uninformed and seriously whatever happened to logic and common sense? In my business the statisticians don’t do that well in general social matters. However, my “street knowledge” has done me well for many years. MLBTR is the only place I can go and be utterly and completely disliked. The hit is out on me by the 17 year old Red Sox saber-metric mafia.
I’m always the first to admit (for ex.) that Arod is grossly overpaid. BUT- Arod at a minimum can justify some value later on based on power numbers. Arod is a game changer. I think most would agree with that statement? Is Carl Crawford? I’m not entirely sure about that. For almost $150mm I would like a game changer, not just some very good OF’r, which at the end of the day, is what Crawford really is, just a good OF’r, but not the best. I consider Gardner a good OF’r so that was my argument, the Yanks in this case are in a great situation and for $140mm less. Plus Gardner is younger. Someone insinuated I was preaching the Yanks financial prudence and how that is impossible. In fact, I think the Yanks have been incredible wise with they’re spending the last few years. The only truly dumb waste of money was Nick Johnson, but that was only $6mm including buyout. I don’t consider Burnett that bad of a signing. Every team has a slightly overpaid medocure pitcher. Let’s just keep in mind, the Red Sox had three last year in Lackey, Beckett and Dice-K.
From a timing standpoint, I do find it odd that the Crawford signing came out of nowhere a few months ago and days after the Yanks met with him. Whether or not is was a knee jerk reaction by epstein, well, that will never be known. Cameron was that knee jerk signing last year and we all see how that worked out. Someone did make a good point that Crawford was going to be overpaid anyway considering other contracts that were handed out this offseason. I think a little patience would have done the Sox well. Gonzalez is coming off shoulder surgery too, and while he is the real deal and an exceptional player, the Sox should definitely proceed with caution in offering him a 8 year $200mm + extension. Shoulder surgery is probably the most serious area of concern when talking baseball. No?
Both Arod and CC have come to camp lean and mean…Jeter has something to prove, as always. So does Tex and a goal not to be horrible the first two months. You have a crop of pitchers wanting to prove their role, including a dynamic group of prospects. There is practically no chance Burnett is as bad as he was last year and the same applies to Beckett. Lackey, well Lackey has always been a medicure pitcher and at least I’ve read Red Sox fans admit that probably wasn’t a solid signing last year. I’m really really liking this Yankee team this season. Mainly because I can’t remember the last time and I’m going back 20 years that they’ve had the prospects they do. I’m watching Phelps pitch right now…I mean this team is stacked with quality arms in the minors. The Red Sox unfortunately don’t have much of a farm outside of Iglesias. Perspective would welcome on here more often. I’ve gotten a little tired of reading the Sox have already won the season when there is still a lot to be proven by their players and much of what the Sox has done is “win now” type of stuff. Which is good, but they had to sacrifice the farm. In fact (I could be wrong) but I read somewhere that they’re ranked somewhere btw 19th and 21st in the league. That’s not very encouraging long term. I’ve spent months reading comments from fans about how horrible Cashman is, how Cliff Lee and others have given the Yank’s the big “go _ yourself” and so on. Man, things ain’t that bad from my point of view. In fact, the Yanks, Rays, and Rangers are still the teams to beat. Until proven otherwise, the Red Sox are 89 game winners in my eyes…Lastly, I think the Yanks have arguably one of the most complete outfields in the league and all 4 (including Jones) amounts to about $20mm in TOTAL salary for this season. Now that’s some great production.
I feel a bromance coming on here…
yankee fan lecturing about overpaying and fiscal prudence
Just once I would like to make a statement on here, based on my own thoughts and opinions without being talked down by a 16 year old Red Sox fan. Perhaps that is asking too much, but one can always hope.
It was so much better on here when you were absent for like 4 months.
Just ignore him. You’re giving him exactly what he wants, he loves coming on here and getting Sox fans going by saying stupid things and arguing about them no matter how ridiculous he looks.
oy vey..regardless of how frequently I chose to comment, I check the site daily. Most times, the comments made by fans are so ridiculous, I don’t even bother. Granted I don’t walk around with a sabermetrics chart in my pocket, so yeah, I may not be up to speed with the latest UZR rating and so on..Sometimes I look at the intangibles, like the way things were done a few generations ago. Yeah, my whole goal in life is comment on here only to rile up Red Sox supporters. Last I checked this forum is open to all to post what they think, regardless if people agree. What I am not allowed to say “I think Carl Crawford is worth $80mm?” Or I feel the Yanks instead of going after Crawford already had the better, cheaper option in Gardner? If you guys really didn’t like my comments, you all would flat out ignore them, which would be fine, but that never seems to be the case..
Pretty sure that’s exactly what I suggested he do, ignore you.
You’ve done a fantasic job of that yourself. Did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason Red Sox fans get their panties all in a bunch when I comment is because there maybe a shred of sense to some of the stuff I say..
No it’s because you sir, don’t make sense. I actually laughed at you
A successful troll is successful
congratulations
I don’t know the history between you two, but I don’t think it’s that outlandish to say that he thinks Crawford deserves 20m a year for 4 years. He’ll be money in the first few years, but the length of the contract is his main concern, and honestly, it’s not that far fetched of Century to make that claim. At least, I don’t think it is.
The problem is he, and you, are confusing what would be ideal for a team to pay and what a player should legitimately get. Ideally you could pay Crawford for only his prime years and let him walk when he starts to decline, but that’s not really how it works. Players, especially top tier players, who are signed through their prime years routinely get deals that overpay for at least the first couple years of their decline. So singling out the Crawford deal in that regard makes you look like you are simply trying to make the Sox look bad, when in reality it’s just how things work in baseball.
Also saying that Gardner is better than Crawford, “I feel the Yanks instead of going after Crawford already had the better, cheaper option in Gardner” is borderline ridiculous. Gardner’s career season is essentially the same as Crawford average over his last three healthy seasons based on WAR, and even Gardner’s career year wasn’t all that close to Crawford’s average in those years if you go by wRC+ or wOBA. If Gardner plays at his 2010 level for a couple more years then that statement wont look as silly. Plus Gardner’s salary is only relevant when talking about the Yankees, other teams couldn’t go out and sign a free agent Gardner for $500k so it has no bearing on whether or not the Sox overpaid Crawford.
Let’s get one thing straight – Gardner is no Crawford, I’ll be the first to admit. I think the point was that Crawford being a speed guy will lose “value” significantly once his decline kicks in, which he estimated in 4-5 years. And again, I don’t disagree with that. But again, for the first few seasons, he’ll be ridiculously good.
And yes, trust me, I know all about paying for a player’s latter twilight years to guarantee you get his prime younger years. So I’m with you.
If that was his point then I apologize and I don’t really disagree, but that’s not what I got out of what he said. It looked to me like he was saying that Crawford isn’t a “standout super star type” player and that he wont be worth his pay even in year one.
Dude you have no idea how lame that is.
If you weren’t a troll we wouldn’t have to do this. My sole reason for making an account here was to combat your trolldom.
In that case, you really should adjust your priorities. Getting a girlfriend would be a good start.
So because he used two minutes to make an account and comment, you assume his priorities are messed up and he doesn’t have a girlfriend. You sir, have some flawed logic.
It’s probably because you act like a 16YO and troll every single thread, generally with information that is blatantly.. Well even more outlandish than some of the things people think of mine sometimes have a feeling and I am on the far side of 50..
Just for the record, I enjoy your outlandish suggestions haha
Are you saying we are never supposed to bring up anyone else overpaying, ever, at all, because of the team we support? You’re not making much cents. Yeah, Jeter is overpaid, but that doesn’t mean I automatically cannot have the belief that there are other superstars that are also overpaid.
i bet you know i’m not saying that, don’t you
yankees fans know better than anyone else that overpaying for top talent can work extremely well for large markets. so while by itself, “he is overpaid” is really not worth saying at all for any fan, it is especially silly coming from someone wearing a NYY cap
yeah, it’ll be hard for crawford to produce $140m worth of value over the next 7 years. but it’ll be significantly easier for boston to win titles with him than without him, even accounting for his salary. the money is no handicap, so what about it is worth mentioning?
I know what you’re trying to say, but I do think that $ has potential to be a handicap in the future. But we’re talking about different things.
I’ll tell you a secret. I’m a “principle” guy, so that’s the basis of most of the arguments I get myself involved in, not the actual story. So in this case, I feel it is ridiculous of you to bring up the pot kettle analogy. Actually, I will almost always feel it is ridiculous to bring that up. Yeah, I’m a Yankees fan, but just because my team spends a lot, doesn’t mean I am not allowed to bring up another team spending a lot if they do. Get me? They’re different arguments, and should be treated as such.
i do get you, but i’m not sure that you got century. he didn’t simply say “boy they overpaid”. his position is that they overpaid and shouldn’t have, and he doesn’t understand why they did, and on and on and on
that’s what i was responding to. how does a fan of the team whose success very literally comes from overpaying to acquire great players not understand why this is done and why it’s worth doing?
so to be clear it’s pretty ludicrous to chirp about fiscal responsibility not because the yankees are fiscally irresponsible, but because they’re not! they in fact demonstrate that overpaying crawford isn’t fiscally irresponsible. it’s part of a very good strategy
Crawford was going to get “overpaid” no matter what team he went to because Werth signed his huge deal and set the market high for Crawford.
Truth.
Except for the whole Vernon Wells part…
I get that you don’t like Crawford or the Red Sox, but please try not to be ignorant. Crawford has only had those numbers once since 2004 and that was in 2008 when he was battling injury and had less than 500 plate appearances. The last three years he has averaged a .346 OBP and 14 HR’s INCLUDING his poor ’08 showing, not to mention the fact that there are other valuable stats that you fail to talk about.
and if you ignore 2008 as you should, it’s .360
not to mention his .373 wOBA, 5th best in the AL among all outfielders over that time
poor boston
You’re just setting the rest of us up for a bunch of dumb comments coming right….about….now.
Craw is going to be good for the next 5 years or so.
very good*
good but badly overpaid for years 6 and 7
I agree. I’m not in the habot of agreeing with Boston fans. Feels awkward.
probably the only RedSox fan I agree with on this board is notsureifsrs
Thanks
🙂
Most of them are all right, actually. Just a few bad seeds…
You realize that you said exactly what Century was saying all along, right?
even a broken clock is right twice a day
i like you, so i’ll explain why he doesn’t merit defending in my book. here’s the rest of the statements he mixed mine in with:
– he best assets are his legs and it seems highly unlikely he’s the same player 5 years from now. I still don’t understand why the Sox paid what they did 1. no, he will be exactly the same type of player, just older – decline in all players is predictable in the mid thirties. 2. how can a yankee fan not understanding overpaying for top talent
– I never considered Crawford a standout super star type fail. AL WAR leaders 2009-2010: 1. evan longoria 2. joe mauer 3. carl crawford
– From a defensive standpoint, he has been compared to Brett Garnder, and that is for 143.5mm less utter nonsense. was gardner a free agent? further, if gardner repeated his 2010 performance four or five times prior to 2010, what would his free agent market value have been? you guessed it, right up there with carl crawford
– Sadly, you’re probably right with those numbers. At least there is comfort in knowing he’ll play a high level of defense for a few years. the numbers he is referring to here are .”320 on base percentage to go with his 9 homers”. why even pretend he’s been reasonable?
Ouch. Okay, I’m not going to argue about the Gardner bits, but I do think Crawford will decline significantly in the latter years. Think about it. He’s going to be 36/37. I get overpaying for prime years, but his decline will be more significant than someone whose gameplan isn’t that heavily reliant on speed.
speed/agility ages better than other skillsets, actually. but there’s no doubt he’s unlikely to be worth $20m by the end of the deal. those are basically deferred payments for his first 4-5 years, though, during which he’s likely to produce more than $20m in value per year. not to mention that $20m won’t be $20m by 2016
Is there precedent for that, or simply speculation? I’m no stat nerd, but I’m a big fan of common sense, and my common sense tells me that it’s a lot harder to maintain speed than it is to maintain power when you’re in your late 30s.
bill james among others has done work on the subject. can’t provide a link here, but google will guide you
look for tom tango’s work related to this subject. the article concludes:
“Basically, Carl Crawford’s speed contributes to better aging, to the tune of 28MM$. What seemed to me this morning like an overpay, may in fact be a perfectly sensible contract, only if the speed-aging pattern is something real.”
Google “do players with speed skill age better” the first link is a write up by Tango about it.
I think you overstate the amount of overall decline Crawford is likely to see. While it is true that a major part of his game comes from speed; the two skills people tend to think of as his weaknesses are patience and power, precisely the two skills that tend to get better later in careers. So assuming he loses a step or two in his last couple years, LF in Fenway should help compensate for the loss of range and his potential rise in OBP and power numbers would help compensate for his drop in SBs and possibly AVG (less infield hits). So while I do agree that there will be an overall decline in value, and he likely wont be worth $20m, I don’t think it will be as severe as you suggest.
Maybe I am. We really don’t know how he’ll age. But we do know that he’ll be worth the decline by the production in the front end of the contract. I understand the logic, but have to disagree with him finding his power in the latter years. I just don’t see it.
Somewhat related question… why don’t they move him to CF? His range is being wasted in LF.
Honestly if I were running the team I would put him in center, at least until his range does start declining. As far as why they don’t, I don’t really know unless he is still saying behind the scenes that he doesn’t want to, or Ellsbury is more of a princess then I think he is and would complain about it. If he really isn’t against it like he said in his press conference and Ellsbury isn’t to averse to moving to LF more permanently I wouldn’t be too surprised to see it at some point.
Sadly, you’re probably right with those numbers. At least there is comfort in knowing he’ll play a high level of defense for a few years.
Kinda getting tired of Werth giving advice to all the teams that didn’t sign him. First the Phillies, now the Red Sox, he better deliver for the Nats or they will look like fools for paying him so much.
Shocking news from Richard Griffen. Four closers? Who knew? I’m so glad he’s paid to tell us these things, otherwise we might not know.
Joe Maddon is a great guy.
I’m wondering which one of the Angels’ starters Cashman might be thinking could become available? Kazmir? I guess if he has a good spring training they might be willing to get from under his contract before the season starts. He shouldn’t cost anything in terms of a good prospect.
Pineiro would be the logical guy.
I don’t think so. Yanks aren’t going to bother to acquire #4 or #5 types. That’s not what’s needed. I thought Kazmir because he has front of rotation stuff but just hasn’t been able to get it together over the last 2 years and is owed a lot
Exactly, they have tons of 5’s. They need a 2 or 3 pitcher, that can slide to the 4 position behind CC-Hughes-Burnett-Kazmir-Nova/Colon/Garcia/Everyone else.
pineiro is more of a #3. he can give you a 4 era and 200+innings which i think is pretty solid #3 starter stuff.
This might sound “elitist” but I think a #3 in the AL East is presumed to be of a higher quality than a #3 anywhere else. Also, he has only had 1 season with 200 IP since 2003 so I don’tthink he’s reliable tobe that kindof work horse.
I agree, I know the Red Sox and their fans were disappointed in missing the playoffs, but they shouldn’t be ashamed of the quality of the season considering the injuries they dealt with and the fact the Yankees and Rays were tough as well.
Of the 4 solid starters the Angels have (Haren, Weaver, Santana, Pineiro), it makes some sense that the Angels could seek to move Santana (can be erratic – tends to pitch poorly in odd-numbered years, has $20 million committed to him prospectively) or Pineiro (had some injury issues late in 2010 and is due $8M in 2011) if someone from the pool of Trevor Bell, Matt Palmer, or Tyler Chatwood (a prospect more likely to join their rotation in-season) made a spring push at a starter’s slot (I’m assuming that those 3 are healthy). At this stage, the Angels would have to eat almost $10 million to move Kazmir, so he’s probably set in stone as their #5.
I would rather go with one of the kids vs Pinero. Santana would be a goodlook but I can’t see the Angels doing that…..then again…Reagins.
Kazmir would be the one that makes the most sense.
I can’t see Kazmir being any better than Nova/Mitre/Garcia. I could see Santana fitting in though. FWIW I see Bell or Palmer sitting in the 5 spot with the Angels eventually this season
Well the premise was that Cashman had his scouts out checking on possible diamond in the roughs. Let’s not forget that Kaz was an exceptional talent 2 years ago. When he’s right, he certainly can be a good #2 or #3 on any team.
I will not say that the Yanks scouts are above and beyond better than any other teams but one of the things I’ve heard said pertaining to drafts, they tend to look at skilland talent and not so much results. Thus they find guys with bad numbers due to bad habits, draft them, change them and benefit. If they Kaz is healthy and has a strong arm and they see correctable flaws then they might be willing to take a chance provided that all they need to do is absorb his salary in exchange for a fringe prospect.
I’d stay far away from Kazmir cuz his velocity is down and he’ll kill your pen as he only goes 5 a night. He makes DiceK look like Halladay!
His career whip is 1.41 and that goes to show you how poor his control has been even when healthy he wouldn’t get deep into many games.
Joe Maddon is legit.
So are his glasses
After 20 minutes skimming through the Yankee/Sox war I finally find a comment about Maddon’s words.
PS: They were awesome indeed xD
How exactly could the WSox have starters available?
Assuming Peavy comes back soon coupled with the fact that most still see Sale as a starter that would give them 6. Buerhle-Danks-Floyd-Jackson-Peavy-Sale.
Wait, so Werth was the Red Sox first target? Because, imo, Crawford>Werth…
They didn’t need a lead off hitter but got one anyways with Crawford.
A leadoff hitter can get on base. Crawford cannot.
Pure Jealousy.
.360
Let me find someone who would be equally good at hitting leadoff, a position that needs two things: Speed, and OBP.
Ah, Brett Gardner. Career OBP? .358. Speed? Just about the same as Crawford’s.
Cost? Helluva lot less.
yeah you’re right the red sox should have signed brett gardner great point
If Gardner was available then this comparison would mean something. They signed the best available player at the position they wanted to upgrade.
The Yankees just paid 17/yr for a SS. They could have matched his production with a 2 million dollar player. The Yanks pay Tex 20+, the Red Sox 1B will make 5m for the same production. The Yanks pay CC 20m the Sox #1 starter makes 6m/yr.
So what does this all mean? Nothing. Its a dumb argument. Teams fill roster spots in different ways, and sometimes pay differently for comparable production.
All I’m saying is that Crawford was overpaid. If you look at him as a leadoff hitter.
They probably thought Werth would cost less, so they could sign other guys. But it all worked out in the end.
This exactly. I was saying for the longest time I’d rather get Werth because he could probably be gotten for four or five years and was a righty. The second Werth signed with the Nats, I wrote off the idea of shoring up our outfield anytime soon. Bluntly speaking, I’m still shocked that Crawford signed for so relatively similar a price.
“never seen a dollar bill throw a strike, or hit a homer, or whatever.”
-never seen a nickle do it either but a dollar can at least afford to pay the salary of one that can. but i guess if you’re given lemons, you make lemonade….and snazzy quotes too.
If the Birds are out of it by July, expect the owners to shed payroll to beef up their meager farm system…that means Carp will be out…Pujols won’t stay around if the Cards are out of it…I know he said “no trade,” but I can’t see it helping his value to stay with the Cards in August/September and be 15 games out….his value rises if he’s on a playoff team…just a thought…
I think if the Cards went 40-120 and Pujols did his thing, his value would be exactly the same.
But wouldn’t it look better if he were on a playoff team, “doing his thing” or not???
IMO no. But I see where your coming from.. but then again its Albert Pujols, the man wakes up in the mourning and pisses victory.
No.
Maybe if he didn’t have a career postseason slash line of .322/.431/.578 in a very solid sample size of 56 postseason games on his career. The guy’s long since proven that he’s the best player in the MLB day and night, April through October.
His splits home and away on his career (1.056/1.044), first and second half (1.039/1.063), lefty and righty (1.096/1.035) are so consistent there is literally absolutely nothing left the guy could prove. For crying out loud, the guy’s interleague numbers are even up there in “how does he do it” territory (1.074), so it’s hard to even claim he might do well by going to AL team to showcase he can hit AL pitching too. The absolute biggest knock on the guy you can find is that his OPS is below 1.000 against pitchers over .500 (A meager .998 on his career)
His value is literally at the absolute peak an American sports figure’s value could be. The only way he could conceivably increase his value by being traded is if he were to end up on a playoff team, convert to pitching every fifth day in addition to playing first in between and throw four shutouts while compiling an average of six RBI a game on the way to the LDS, LCS and WS MVP after a regular season in which he manages to nab the Triple Crown.
I don’t think so. Yanks aren’t going to bother to acquire #4 or #5 types. That’s not what’s needed. I thought Kazmir because he has front of rotation stuff but just hasn’t been able to get it together over the last 2 years and is owed a lot.
The Yankees can have literally any player on the A’s roster if they want to give up Montero.
They could really use Cahill or Anderson
that would be incredibly dumb of the A’s
Jayson Werth really sounds like he doesn’t want to be in Washington. Talking about how Philadelphia really should have tried harder to work out a deal with him, and how great he thought Boston was, but couldn’t get the extra year out of them. It’s getting a little awkward.
In the bizarro world that Amaro inhabits, I can see him trading for Werth next year after Ibanez and his $12 million comes off the books (if this year doesn’t end with a WS ring).
Not interested in seeing the Braves trade any starter not named Kawakami. Sorry.
it’s ok
thanks bro. *slight pound with fist*
What’s the rapon JJ? Is he damaged good’s?
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he gets traded after the 2011 or 2012 season. He really pitched pretty well when he wasn’t trying to play hurt — it’s all just a factor of whether our illustrious penny-pinching ownership is willing to attempt to sign him long term.
If Lowe wouldn’t have remembered how to pitch at the end of the season last year, I’d be interested to see what could be done with that freed up cash + whatever the Yankees cough up.
Yankees can have Kawakami for less than they gave us for Cody Johnson…which wasn’t much. In all seriousness, maybe KK just needs a change of scenary so the Yankees should bite if they’re smart
In that case, you really should adjust your priorities..Getting a girlfriend would be a good start.
You’ve done a very good job at that yourself..Thanks.
I’m glad the Sox didn’t get Werth. He would of been a worse overpay than Werth. Crawford is far superior in my opinion. He is also a bit younger and just a better all around player.
Dont sleep on Piniero. He’s solid, and I would trust him tomorrow over AJ Burnett or Ivan Nova.
As far as Crawford goes, he’s a stud and should be for the next 4 years. BUT…paying a guy 2x his highest every paycheck for the next seven years could catch up with the sox. I’m not a believer in overpaying for a guy who’s value is so dependent on his legs. As far as Century’s gardner comment, I’m guessing he isnt alleging gardner is equal in value thats clear. Its simply raising the question of VALUE. Crawford is awesome – but is he worth 44x as much as Gardner for the players they are? NO, he’s not.
2 years from now everybody will realize how ridiculous the Werth/Crawford deals were. Such a ridiculous risk to take, 18 million+ a year? Thats sick money to pay IF they are not producing big numbers.
So getting back to Crawford’s comments earlier this week that he didn’t want to be a “back-up plan for the Yankees,” but Werth pretty much confirmed that Crawford was the Red Sox’s back-up plan.
If the Sox made Werth an offer, it was made before they learned that Crawford would seriously consider signing with Boston. If you believe Epstein, Crawford was the #1 target all along (even with his ~20 mil for 7 years pricetag) but they thought it was almost a given that he would sign with the Angels and didn’t think they really even had a shot.
People actually read Griffin’s twitter page?
hey, i hate the yankees
i do it just to see the display picture from DJF
gayest thread EVAR
Regardless of peoples differing opinion on Gardner and Crawford, they still are exciting players to watch.