10:23am: Orioles president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail said that there's no timetable on a Guerrero decision, tweets Brittany Ghiroli of MLB.com.
9:06am: The Orioles are "settled" on their position in contract negotiations with free-agent Vladimir Guerrero, tweets Buster Olney of ESPN.com.
The O's offer to Vlad stands at $4.5-5MM, and if that's not enough to land him, Baltimore is OK with that, Olney says.
This, of course, after several days of hard bargaining between the Orioles and Guerrero.
Will they ever get this guy
$4.5-5MM is enough.
This should be a no brainer…unless Vlad’s agent was lying about the $8M offer.
of course he and his agent are lying about this 8MM offer
Not sure why everyone is saying this. An “8 million dollar offer in hand” does NOT mean that there is a team out there willing to pay him 8mm on a 1 year deal to be their DH. It’s common knowledge that Vlad wants at least a two year deal, and based on whats happened this season, it would make sense for him to try and get one. I’m guessing that they aren’t looking for more guaranteed money from the Orioles this year, rather, they want them to give him two years at 9 to 10 million total…
For Guerrero, that makes sense, for the O’s, not so much (especially if they are also looking at Guerrero as much as a trade chip at the deadline as anything else.)
I would make the assumption that Guerrero has one of the following types of offers:
1.) A two year deal worth 8mm with an AL team to be their DH, or to share time as their DH. That could mean base salaries of 3mm per each year with incentives for At bats, and awards bringing the value up to 8. (Heck, he gould have a 500k per year gold glove bonus in there, which is essentially worthless…)
2. a very LOW base salary deal (somewhere between 1 and 3 million) with either the Dodgers or Phillies, with another 1 to 3 million dollars tied to innings played in the OF, total at bats, MVP, all star selection, post season awards, SS, GG, etc.. with a player/club or mutual option for 2012 at the same or a slightly higher deal.
I don’t doubt that there is an 8 million dollar offer out there. I don’t think Vlad likes the structure, team, guarantee of playing time, postion, etc..
It’s definitely not an 8 mm one year deal to dh, though, or he likely would have taken it.
Have you seen what the other DHs this offseason have been getting? More like 2-3M. 8M is quite a jump.
Vlad needs to start liking the structure of this team. He doesn’t have many options left. And i don’t get what you mean by “guarantee of playing time” and “position”. It’s very clear that Luke Scott will shift to LF or be traded and Guerrero will be the full time DH.
wasn’t referring to the O’s, was referring to the “mystery team”, meaning that if it’s a NL team, he’s not thrilled with playing the OF and/or pnch hitting. If it’s an AL team, maybe they plan on platooning him with someone else. If anything, the Orioles likely present his best opportunity to play every day as a DH at this point.
Guerrero wants a two year deal to be a full time DH. The only reason he doesn’t have a deal in place is that he wanted a three year deal at the beginning of the off season. He miscalculated, and probably should have excercised his 1 year option with the Rangers, but he thought he’d get at least two years from someone. At this point, I doubt he has a problem with 5 million a year from Baltimore, but I don’t think thats where they were a few days ago. I think he’ll still end up there. My point is that he’s not trying to get Baltimore to agree to an 8mm a year one year deal, like everyone is assuming. He’s trying to get baltimore to give him 9 to 10 million over two years, so as not to risk being in the same situation next off season, should he have a down year.
A mystery NL team offering 8M for a guy who doesn’t play in the field? First of all 8M, outside of Edgar Martinez in his prime, it means it’s an everyday type of player who plays in the field. Vlad, as great a player as he has been, isn’t that today.
Its NOT AN 8MM deal!!! It’s a 2 to 3 million dollar deal that could be worth 8 IF he played every day. He hasn’t taken it BECAUSE he knows he won’t be able to reach the incentives.
Trust me, if Guerrero could play the field every day, he would be worth 8MM.
If he could be play the field everyday, he would definitely be worth that. He has a RF arm that few could match. That said, the last real go-round he had as the everyday RF, he developed serious injury issues around his hips and back, not insignificant for a power hitter. And, at that, in the season as an Angel, his range and arm diminished too. Yes, it may have been injury-related, but I don’t think you can just ignore that as an anomaly. Maybe, such things are the new normal for the middle-aged version of Guerrero?
agree completely. Vlad is not an everyday OF anymore. But it’s not out of the realm of possibility that a NL team looking for a RH power threat would come in and kick the tires at this point and take a flyer on a low base high incentive deal if he has no other options that are better. Basically it’s a “look Vlad, if nothing better pans out, here’s what we’ll do for you” type of thing.
Think about it. For Philadelphia, as an example, What would the worse case scenario be? For 2 million bucks (which is basically what the Phillies paid Greg Dobbs last year)year) You have Guerrero off the bench, as a DH in interleague games, he plays RF occasionally against tough lefties and you sit Dom Brown, (who he mentors as well) and if you feel the need, can trade him to an AL fringe contender who needs his bat at the deadline and get something in return. It’s not as inplausible a scenario as people think.
That said, I don’t think Guerrero would want to do it, unless he had no viable alternative. But he could certainly try and use it as leverage with the viable alternative to get the best deal he can at this point.
Maybe thats 1 year 5.5, but who’s to say yesterday the O’s offer wasn’t 1 year and 3?
And if nobody was willing to pay him to be a DH, do you think he would rather retire, sit out the year, or take a few million bucks from a team that might be the favorites to win the WS?
My point is that, for Vlad to accept a deal to go to an NL team, he’d have to accept the possibility that he wouldn’t be in the lineup everyday for 4-5 ABs, which would put his chances at reaching his HOF numbers into risk. If he gets 300 ABs or so for the next 2 years, he’ll probably get to 2500 hits, but he’s probably going to miss 500 HRs.
Incentive-laden or not, it doesn’t make sense. How would the incentives be structured? That he’d get more money or an extra year if he reaches certain plateaus like ABs, plays in X amount of games, or specific stats? Well, he doesn’t give a team the option to play the field, it severely hinders his chances at reaching those incenticve plateaus. What’s the point?
There is no point. Which is exactly the point I’m making. I think were saying the same thing, to a degree.
The deal would be like this:
2 mm base salary in the first year. 250k bonuses for mvp, Silver slugger, gold glove, all star. Thats 3MM. plus, a 5 million dollar option for the second year that automatically kicks in if he gets say, 400 AB’s or plays 400 innings in the field.
It’s an 8MM deal that is , really, a 2MM deal. Its a deal thaqt Guerrero would not take UNLESS he had no viable option to DH, but a deal that his agent could honestly say is “an 8MM deal in hand, without getting into any specifics.
My point was not to say that Vlad could, or should be able to play the OF in the NL and a team should pay him 8MM a year to do so. Thats not realistic. My point was to say that I don’t think there is another american league team out there who has a one year 8MM deal on the table for Vlad, but don’t beleive that his agent if full of crap either.
“..but a deal that his agent could honestly say is “an 8MM deal in hand, without getting into any specifics…”
Ok. That sounds feasible. I can buy that. And, as you said, I think we agree that, if reaching those HOF benchmarks is important to Vlad, he just wouldn’t be interested in any NL role where he isn’t in the lineup everyday.
In other words, maybe one can say: a 1 yr sub-8M DH role in the AL is more attractive to Vlad than a 2-yr 8M/YR deal bench role in the NL, right?
A lying agent …..go figure.
If there was a 8M offer it would have made him the highest paid DH among some very solid ones that were available this offseason (e.g. Thome, Matsui, Manny, etc..). I think it’s a complete bluff. If there was an 8M offer on the table, even for just one year, he’d have taken it by now.
i’m glad they upped their offer from 2mill, i think this is the right price range for him. I wouldn’t budge on that price at all, i really doubt he will finish the year with them though, he could hopefully bring in a decent prospect if he has a good year.
Will he ever get signed?
If he had an 8M offer he would have signed by now. Take it or leave it, Vladdy.
I think this “8MM offer” Vladi supposedly has is 100% Bullsh!t!! Vladi should be thankful that any team is talking with him. It’s 2 days shy of February and Vladi is d!cking around with the Orioles. I think Vlad wants to be this year’s Jermaine Dye lol!!! If this is his agent doing this, Vlad needs to fire him today!!
I agree with u 100%. If the O’s pull there offer, then Vlad and his agent will have screwed the pooch.
Cut the bullshit. Either sign or tell us you don’t want to come here.
I love the fact that Vlad spurned the O’s a few years ago and now they get to say take it or leave it. 5 mil is a steal for Vlad and I think the O’s should go up to 6 before making a hard stance but I understand their position. Man I hope they land Vlad and then add Millwood and Duke or Millwood and Garcia or Duke and Bonderman or Millwood and Bonderman, haha
I wouldn’t touch any of those pitchers unless they take a minor league deal knowing they’ll be competing for a spot. No guarantees. I’d rather them just let the kids pitch.
I’d sign Duscherer. Tillman has proven nothing so far. I’d take a page from Earl Weaver’s book and put him in the pen until he shows something resembling consistency and control.
He’d most like likely be the #4 hitter in a great lineup:
Roberts
Markakis
Lee
Guerrero
Scott
Reynolds
Jones
Wieters
Hardy
And he’ll probably get traded to a contender at the deadline.
What’s not to like?
That is a really good lineup! 2 great tablesetters and power throughout the lineup with young guys and vets! and outside of Reynolds, they are solid defensively. cant wait to see them play the Red Sox in July as i just booked tix today!
Reynolds is pretty solid defensively. I mean, he’s no Evan Longoria or Brooks Robinson, but he’s still pretty solid.
I think what the Orioles needed to focus on after adding Reynolds and Lee was getting a starting pitcher who could solidify the rotation as well as a few pen arms whether it was via trade or free agency. Their line up looks nice and all but they won’t win many games if their pitching sucks.
The search for pitching is happening as we speak. It’s just that none of it is as sexy as the VLad news. They’ve been sending out lots of low risk moves and invites to LHP options in the pen. Also supposedly there’s been some talk for veteran SP options, though none of them will be too sexy, since no good options really existed on the market outside of CLiff Lee this offseason.
This Vlad stuff got started out of nowhere. They weren’t focussed on Vlad whatsoever until a week ago when this buzz of the Os maybe being able to get Vlad for cheap started up.
Finding good pitching is almost impossible right now! Just ask the Yankees! The O’s are fine letting their young pitchers get their feet wet while their offense keeps them in games!
Take it or leave it, Vlad.
The Os are playing an interesting game. I think it’s reasonable to assume that the Os management knows that it’s late in the offseason, when most majorleague teams have their rosters and budgets nearly set, so to add a Vlad at the price he wants would require many of those teams to reshuffle their money and rosters, perhaps causing a cut or a trade of a pretty good player in the process. Knowing this, the Orioles can set their own price, and bet that Vlad won’t find a team willing invite that ripple effect into their club.
If the Os wait it out, Vlad might have no choice but to realize that, he either must sign with the Os, or, pass on his shot at hitting the 2500 hits/500 HRs HOF echelon. That said, if Vlad finds a team to do this, more power to him. He’s a damn good future HOF player.
If he doesn’t go there he’s a fool. He’s quickly running out of options. He can’t play the field anymore and he isn’t getting any younger. I’m a Rays fan but the Orioles are a perfect fit. The Rays just got Manny for 2 million so if Vlad thinks he’s worth that much more than Manny at this stage of his career he’s smoking something. He’d be a great addition to that lineup and he’d have plenty of good hitters around him so he’d be seeing good pitches. If he wants to prolong his career he needs to suck it up and sign. If he tries to go to an N.L. team he’s done.
Manny got 2 million because Boras packaged him with Damon, and nobody wanted manny’s attitude. Manny is also still getting 10 million a year in deffered money.
Guerrero is definitely worth more than Manny.
I hate Manny the person, but Manny the hitter is still one of the best in the game!
..and the Rays over paid for Damon so it all balances out. I’m sorry but Vlad isn’t much better than Manny if he is at all. He may be worth more, but no where in the 6-8 million range he seems to want. Manny is a better hitter and he may be horrible in the outfield but he’s more serviceable than Vlad.
“meaning that if it’s a NL team, he’s not thrilled with playing the OF”
On behalf of all teams in the National League, nobody will be thrilled if Vlad has to play the OF!!! After his horrendous defensive display in the postseason, it’s obvious to everyone that Vlad should not even own a glove anymore, much less be a corner OFer
Andy doesn’t mention players until the deal is done or near done. He directly addressed a Vlad question at Fan Fest today about Guerrero in the lineup and where Scott would move (LF). Andy doesn’t discuss players who aren’t signed. They also have a good shot at landing Duchsherer because they can offer him a starting role. If Vlad is signed, they have constructed a potentially contending lineup. And if they can sign Duchsherer the rotation is very young, but has a really high ceiling…
Guthrie
Matusz
Bergesen
Arrieta
Duchsherer
Tillman*
Britton*
The O’s look like they will get Duchsherer, and Vlad. This will be the best off season in years for the O’s. They are going to surprise people this year.
Adding a broken down pitcher and a nearly washed up DH and that’s the “best off season in years”? That’s setting the bar about as low as it can go!
breaking news from chicago Jim Hendry signs Vladimir Guererro to a 5 year 200 ML with full no trade and a promise to be the opening day Centerfielder