In his Insider-only ESPN.com blog, Buster Olney writes that the Mets have internally discussed the possibility of simply releasing Luis Castillo. The team has repeatedly tried to free up some money by trading the second baseman, but has yet to find a taker. Olney indicates that it's possible the Mets could drop both Castillo and Oliver Perez before Opening Day. Here are this morning's other New York-related notes:
- The Mets were one of the teams pursuing Randy Choate before the southpaw signed with the Marlins, according to Newsday's Ken Davidoff. Davidoff says the Mets made Choate a one-year offer worth about $1.4MM, but the veteran lefty accepted more years and more guaranteed money from Florida. If the Mets still intend to add a Pedro Feliciano replacement, Davidoff continues, it'll probably be someone on a minor-league deal, since the market is thinning.
- Brian Cashman told Anthony McCarron of the New York Daily News that he felt the asking price for Matt Garza was too high to seriously pursue a trade with the Rays. "We never got off the dime, but strong impressions were that it would be something that would cost us more because we are in the division, kind of like Roy Halladay," said the Yankees GM.
- Considering Andrew Friedman's comments about using the money saved in the Garza deal to sign other players, Chad Jennings of the Journal News wonders if the Rays' targets could overlap with the Yankees'.
- The Royals have told interested clubs that Joakim Soria will not be traded, a stance which Bill Madden of the New York Daily News finds puzzling. Madden suggests the Yankees were willing to part with Jesus Montero and Eduardo Nunez for Soria.
- In his blog entry linked above, Olney disagrees with Madden's argument that the Royals need to trade Soria. According to Olney, Soria's contract is so team-friendly it makes it nearly impossible for the Royals to get equal value from the Yankees or anyone else at the moment.
Cashman should be fired on the spot if he offered Montero + Nunez for a reliever. That’s absurd.
I agree. I’m also almost 100% positive that there was a report saying the Yankees WOULDN’T offer Montero for Soria, much less adding another player. Madden needs to get a clue.
In theory, trading top prospects for a reliever is not a good idea, but Soria is not just any reliever, he the best closer in baseball who happens to be cost controlled thru 2014.
He’s not cost controlled for the Yankees, because the Yankees are on his no-trade list, so they would probably have to restructure to deal in order for him to waive his no-trade to come to the Bronx. But, yeah, he’s not worth what he’s worth. Nunez and Chamberlin are as high as I’d be willing to part with from the 40 man roster to get him and that wouldn’t get him.
He’s the 2nd best. Mo is the best. Maybe if Mo declines, Soria will be the best. But for now, it’s Mo.
Soria (2010): K/9: 9.7, BB/9: 2.2,
xFIP: 2.99, ERA: 1.78, WAR: 2.1
Rivera (2010): K/9: 6.8, BB/9: 1.7,
xFIP: 3.65, ERA: 1.80, WAR: 1.7
When also factoring in age and contract situation, it’s pretty easy to see that Soria is superior to 41 year old Mo.
Except can Soria pitch in the big game? There is no denying that Mo is on the decline. That there are better RPers in the game. Few if any that pitch today are as clutch as he is especially coming back from a failed save situation.
How are we supposed to know? Since when do the Royals play in the type of big game that made Mariano a legend? Big games for the Royals are AL Central pennant chase games in October where they are trying to mess things up for the Twins, White Sox, and Tigers.
I’m not trying to take away anything from Mariano. He’s bar-none the best closer ever and one of the best pitchers ever. But at the moment, I’d give the nod to Soria, not only because his stats are superior, but also because the Royals score a lot fewer runs than the Yankees and Soria is often pitching with a smaller lead than Mariano.
I agree with you. We do not know. Soria is a awesome pitcher in KC. Will it translate to NY? Think about the big name, big game pitchers that have wilted in in NYC. As a Yankee fan I would love to grab Soria but I think realistically the only way KC parts with him is for a king’s ransom & big $$$$$. Not that it takes a genius to make such an observation….
The lineups are bit tougher in the AL East though. That HAS to account for something when talking about Mo.
Soria (2010): K/9: 9.7, BB/9: 2.2,
xFIP: 2.99, ERA: 1.78, WAR: 2.1
Rivera (2010): K/9: 6.8, BB/9: 1.7,
xFIP: 3.65, ERA: 1.80, WAR: 1.7
When also factoring in age and contract situation, it’s pretty easy to see that Soria is superior to 41 year old Mo.
He’s the 2nd best. Mo is the best. Maybe if Mo declines, Soria will be the best. But for now, it’s Mo.
I agree there is only ONE and ONLY player on anyones roster pitcher or position player that Cashman should be concentrating on making a deal for involving Montero and thats KING FELIX Seatle wanted Montero for Lee Im sure theyd be happy to take him for Hernandez especially considering that theey are obviously rebuilding and have no worthy starting catcher on their active roster or any catching prospects either. Maybe throw Nunez in the trade for him as well or even FINALLY get rid of JOBA while he’s still worth something and still has value fvor a team that is rebuilding like Seatle besides the longer we hold on to him, and he doesnt perform, the less valuable and appealing he will seem to be for other teams. Throw Joba in the trade for King Felix and sign Soriano for 2 years @20 mil with an option for third. MONTERO IN A TRADE FOR HERNANDEZ AND ONLY HERNANDEZ CASH!!
I agree there is only ONE and ONLY player on anyones roster pitcher or position player that Cashman should be concentrating on making a deal for involving Montero and thats KING FELIX Seatle wanted Montero for Lee Im sure theyd be happy to take him for Hernandez especially considering that theey are obviously rebuilding and have no worthy starting catcher on their active roster or any catching prospects either. Maybe throw Nunez in the trade for him as well or even FINALLY get rid of JOBA while he’s still worth something and still has value fvor a team that is rebuilding like Seatle besides the longer we hold on to him, and he doesnt perform, the less valuable and appealing he will seem to be for other teams. Throw Joba in the trade for King Felix and sign Soriano for 2 years @20 mil with an option for third. MONTERO IN A TRADE FOR HERNANDEZ AND ONLY HERNANDEZ CASH!!
The Royals have plenty of time to deal Soria and get a great return for him. 2013 trade deadline perhaps?
“Madden suggests the Yankees were willing to part with Jesus Montero and Eduardo Nunez for Soria”
What’s maddens source…. so the Yankees are not willing to dump the 31st pick in this years draft for a reliever, however they were willing to trade arguably their two best hitting prospects for one?
Bad reporting as always from madden…
Madden is just perplexed by the growing notion that the rest of MLB will not simply roll over and play Yankee-farm system whenever they need it to.
WHen has that ever been the case? If anything it’s been the other way around with the Yanks historically being willing to part with great prospects for mediocre aging talent (see Doug Drabek for Rick Rhoden, Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps, Fred McGriff for Dale Murray, Jose Tabata and Ohlendorf for Damaso Marte and Xavier Nady).
What has been much more prevelant is teams trying to overtax the Yankees in prospect cost and then settling for a comparable or lesser package from another team.
It is clear that you have indeed only been a Yank’s fan since 78. And have not been paying that close of attention in the meantime, for that matter.
First, the history lesson:
– Historically, the Yankees have had a trend of letting other teams develop talent and then basically buying it off of them. This trend continued until the league banned straight cash exchanges for players. A little known player by the name of George Herman Ruth was acquired through this process, but did not amount to much. 😉
– Even AFTER this practice was frowned upon, the Yankees still used some of the less competitive teams as MLB level farm teams. Most notably, the Kansas City A’s had a “special relationship” with the Yankees of this nature through most of the 1950’s. If you like watching old footage of Roger Maris, Roger Maris, Bobby Shantz, or Art Ditmar playing in pinstripes, you can go place some flowers on the grave of Arnold Johnson.
Now, for the modern day:
– I have yet to see a position where the Yankees offer significantly more than any other team in prospects and be denied, except where all teams in the AL and/or division were placed at the same disadvantage. Just because the Yankees have made some boneheaded trades for aging vets doesn’t mean they were paying some sort of ‘Yankee tax.’ Unless you count having bad management to be a tax. Considering that only one of your examples is even from the last 10 years, and includes the (cough cough) stars Tabata and Olendorf, it seems like you have been having trouble thinking of examples also.
– Finally, the Yankees actually win trades in terms of players more often than not because they regularly provide salary relief. This is the new way that the Yankees and other big teams throw money around. A great example of this was the 2006 Abreu trade. Abreu and Lidle for 4 scrub prospects who have barely been heard of 5 years later? … Somehow, I think that the big “trade” was millions left on Abreu’s salary.
Now don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that Yankees are this big bad baseball wart or something. They can conduct their business as they wish. But your point about a Yankee tax is absurd, from a historical context, and it also doesn’t appear to hold water in the modern context- unless you’re going to claim they’re providing too much salary relief to the teams they trade with?
The Pirates made a good trade with Yankees for Tabata. He is going to be a good player. He is only 22 and he hit .299 in 405 AB with 19 SBs.
Marte who he was traded for had shoulder surgery and will be out until June but he was a key player for the 2009 World Series team.
While Tabata may yet turn out all right, we’re talking Juan Pierre upside here. Useful, but not all that exciting. It was a solid trade for both the Pirates and the Yankees, given that Tabata’s skill set probably wouldn’t fly with the Yankees (just plain not game-changing enough) and the Yankees needed the pieces they picked up. My point was that I would hardly cite it as an example of any sort of “Yankee tax” where the Pirates were somehow extorting extra value from the Yankees. To me, that looks like a very typical mid-season trade. A couple prospects with starter (but not star) upside, for a couple of MLB veterans to fill positions of need.
I didn’t claim that the Tabata deal was an example of a Yankee tax. What I said was that historically the Yanks have traded away their prospects for veterans. I then went on to say that what has happened of late (Santana, Halladay, Lee, Greinke, etc) is that teams have tried to get more out of the Yanks compared to what they ultimately settled for.
There are two issues with this.
#1 – Since the Yankees never made those deals, we do not have any assurance of what was actually on the table. We have some solid rumors, but no assurances.
#2 – Two of those situations you mention where no trade was made involved MANY suitors with equally good deals. The Red Sox and other teams put up offers equally good or better than the Yankees did. If there were some magical “Yankee Tax” and the Red Sox or Blue Jays or whoever would have completed a deal for Santana or Halladay at that point. Instead, the selling team just overplayed its hand. That was not specific to the Yankees, it was specific to the market. One COULD say for Santana or Halladay that there was a bias toward getting the pitcher out of the AL, but otherwise I don’t see how the Yankees were in any way disadvantaged.
#3 – The Lee situation assumes that the Yankees offer was higher because it could include Montero, basically, who is a high upside player with a significant position risk (i.e. may not have one). Seattle traded away Lee for guys who filled positions, at the expense of upside, in my opinion. That’s not a tax, that’s a strategy. Not sure if it’s a good strategy, but that’s for another day.
#4 – The Greinke situation is even weirder to bring up, considering that some reports state that the Yankees didn’t even get to the point of putting together a full offer. From Heyman: “Greinke told the Royals that he wouldn’t mind playing for the Yankees, but New York never got close to making a trade for the Kansas City ace.” I have yet to see any report that states that the Yankees gave a better offer than the Brewers ended up giving. Moreover, the Royals wanted more from the Nationals than their demands reported for the Yankees. So is there a Nationals tax now too?
#5 – Basically every deal that the Yankees haven’t been able to pull off over the last couple of years has included Montero as a centerpiece. At some point, don’t we have to consider the possibility that the Yankees value Montero more than other teams do? That seems a lot more rational than teams somehow being afraid of taking the best offer because it comes from (gasp) the Yankees.
No offense, but saying that there is a “Yankee tax” where teams are willing to give up the best offer because it comes from the Yankees is a pretty extraordinary claim and requires extraordinary proof. I simply do not see the proof, and would be shocked to think that any GM would keep his job if he took anything less than the best offer on the table (unless it was an in-division trade and both teams were win-now mode).
If a team gave a player a huge contract it can no longer afford.. a huge contract that many other teams cannot afford, but yet wants to trade that player.. has basically locked themselves into only dealing with teams that can afford that player.
This would be Philadelphia’s culpability. They signed Abreu to the contract, not New York. They didn’t meet performance expectations and put him on the market, not New York. So Philadelphia had to live with the consequences of the contract they signed Bobby Abreu to. They limited their market, not the Yankees.
And last time I checked, getting all that money off the books worked out pretty well for those guys in Philly.
Serious teams are playing baseball to win, dude. I think it’s starting to get time to create a Premier League for baseball so people from poor cities who field scrub teams can feel better about themselves and their teams and experience a more appropriate level of competition for their neighborhoods.
Kansas City vs Oakland.. has a real Blackpool vs. Sheffield Wednesday feel to it.
Again, I never said the Phillies or Yankees were bad for the Abreu trade. The Yankees have effectively limitless funds, picking up added salary for upgrades is an excellent strategy in that position. What I am saying is that the Yankees are not paying some sort of “tax” due to being the Yankees. Just because they are the only team able/willing to pay the salary for a guy like Abreu doesn’t mean that other teams are ripping them off. On the contrary, it means they are using their revenue advantage to improve the team. I agree it improved both teams.
My point of contention was that YanksFanSince78 was giving a sob story about how other teams are gouging the Yankees somehow. He states: “What has been much more prevelant is teams trying to overtax the Yankees in prospect cost and then settling for a comparable or lesser package from another team.” But I don’t see any evidence of that at all. On the contrary, the Yankees generally have to give LESS prospects because they provide MORE salary relief.
That is the significance of the Abreu trade. It was a very prototypical: “Yankees give up scrub prospects for overpaid star/vet.” As I explicitly stated, I am not claiming salary dumps are good or bad- simply that the Yankees prevalent (correct spelling) use of them directly contradicts the claim that teams are “overtaxing” the Yankees in prospects.
No, the Yankee tax is absolutely real. I just would disagree that it is a long-standing issue for the team. I would also agree that trades such as the Drabek trade were not a Yankee tax.. rather, they were impulsive moves made by Steinbrenner often against the explicit advice of his baseball operations department.
However, anyone who doesn’t think Yankee taxing hasn’t been going on the last few years hasn’t been paying attention. And it isn’t exclusive to us. Teams do it to the Red Sox, too.
Or did you miss that whole deal with Johan Santana? Do you even remember the packages the Twins were demanding from the Yankees and Sox? Do you remember what they got?
You certainly aren’t wrong in a lot of what you say, but its all through a biased lens.
Actually, I’m a Red Sox fan and I’m well aware there have been many cases were the Red Sox have given the best or tied-for-best offer and been rejected. Both the Red Sox and Yankees reported offers for Santana were great compared to the ultimate payoff. With that said, it’s not a “tax” just because the trade didn’t go through. It just happened to be that the Twins overplayed their hand and/or undervalued the prospects involved.
No offense, but for any team outside the division, the Red Sox and Yankees are just one more team out of the year. Every team has to maximize their trades in order to make the post-season, and as we can all see, it’s a crap-shoot from that point on. So why would any team possibly take a worse offer to avoid trading with an AL East beast? Just makes no sense.
With Santana, the Twins just screwed up. Pure and simple. No mincing it, but it’s a heck of a lot more sensible than some “Yankees + Red Sox tax.”
Hey great responses and input ! I wish you had a better interlocuter, but thanks for those posts. I don’t understand how withpower got it into his head that your biased, you certainly didn’t say anything to indicate that. Your response to Yanksfan had a lot of stuff i didn’t know about, it was worth more then just a simple hit of the ‘like’ button.
Dude, they overplayed their hand when they tried to get more from the Yankees and Red Sox because those two teams and their status as large market, win-now powerhouses results in a premium on marginal wins.
Maybe words like biased and such shouldn’t get thrown around. I just don’t understand how anyone could think this isn’t going on. It is.
Justin Smoak and a rapist over Jesus Montero anyone?
I think he made up this story. Why would they trade their best MLB ready prospects for Soria when the can pay cash and a unproven draft pick for Soriano ?
Why would the Yankees EVER trade Jesus Montero for Soria? One of the top prospects in all of baseball who could very well become a perennial all-star versus a closer who is going to pitch the last inning of a game every now and then, and will honestly be just as effective as Mariano Rivera? Maybe madden should find a new career. And this is coming from somebody who HATES the Yankees with a passion.
If Montero can’t catch (and all I’ve read about is how Montero probably won’t be able to hack it defensively) he has NO PLACE on the Yankees. 1B is blocked, the OF is blocked, and DH is blocked by aging veterans with big contracts. Even if DH wasn’t blocked, who in their right mind has a 21/22 year old DH?
If Montero is so good, why has every team always chosen the other package when he’s been offered as a center piece?
We will find out how good he is in 2011 because he has already proved that he can handle AAA. Looks like he will split time between catching and DH. I am not sure if there is room on the team for Cervelli and Posada’s catching days are over.
Montero will come up in June, but I would give him a chance to play. Yankee fans tend to expect too much too soon. All I say is give the kid a chance to devolope like the O’s did with Weiters or the Braves did with Haywood. Posey got rookie of the year, but Haywood may turn out to be a better player.
Its Heyward….
I’ve read that he will be able to hack it defensively.
Funny, that.
Oh god Olney you best be correct on this.
The Montero for Soria rumor was debunked a while ago. I’m not sure why Madden and others insist on repeating it.
For the Mets to [FINALLY] drop Oliver Pérez before opening day would be like Christmas in March!
Dear Santa Claus….come get him!
This is a sad state of the Mets when fans cheer losing Perez and Castillo at 18 million. I remember when Castillo was playing for the Marlins in the series with Renteria, and Ollie won 15 games for the Mets the future looked great. Add in John Maine and the Mets were just snake bit.
Well id rather lose them both. Let tejada or hu or hernandez play. Give tobi stoner a shot . Instead of perez
For the Mets to [FINALLY] drop Oliver Pérez before opening day would be like Christmas in March!
Dear Santa Claus….come get him!