The Reds have officially agreed to a three-year extension with Joey Votto, reports John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer (on Twitter). MLB.com's Mark Sheldon first reported the agreement. The deal, which is a pending a physical scheduled for Monday, will be worth $38MM. Votto is represented by Dan Lozano.
Votto will earn $5.5MM in 2011, $9.5MM in '12m and $17MM mil in '13 along with a $6MM signing bonus, according to Jon Heyman of SI (via Twitter). The first baseman was entering his first season of arbitration eligibility, so the contract will cover the remaining three years of team control. Because the extension only buys out his arbitration seasons, the 27-year-old will still be able to become a free agent after the 2013 season.
Following an MVP campaign in 2010, Votto would have been in line for a massive raise through arbitration. When MLBTR's Ben Nicholson-Smith examined Votto's potential 2011 salary last August, he found that the first baseman's numbers stacked up favorably to other sluggers who received $7MM+ in their first arbitration eligible seasons.
Taking into account Votto's strong finish and MVP award, his 2011 cost likely would have been even higher than $7MM, and would only have increased over the next two years. With this deal, the arbitration process will be avoided, providing both sides with some cost certainty. While $38MM is a significant price to pay for three non-free agent years, it's not unprecedented – Ryan Howard earned $44MM from the Phillies over his first three arbitration seasons.
Votto's deal is the third major extension the Reds have agreed to this winter. In December, Bronson Arroyo signed a three-year, $35MM contract to remain in Cincinnati, and Jay Bruce signed for six years and $51MM.
SI.com's Jon Heyman first reported that Votto and the Reds were "working hard" on a three-year extension.
Well cost certainty is there. But doesn’t buy out free agency. It would make sense if they try to rework it in two offseasons. Really good deal for both sides.
Seems pretty fair for both sides, and provides the obvious benefit of cost certainty. Still would have been nice for the reds if they could have worked a free agency year or two into the deal.
1 year wonder… he should meet chris johnson
He’s already played 3 full seasons in the bigs and has a career OPS of .958. So maybe a 3 year wonder…
Who is Chris Johnson? 3B for the Astros?
RB for the Tennessee Titans.
Ahh.. Okay. Thanks! Thought it was a baseball player.
ya not many people know who chris johnson is because he only had 1 good year…. kinda like votto
How about two good years and one ridiculous 2,000 rushing yeards season?
Ahh.. Okay. Thanks! Thought it was a baseball player.
Ahh.. Okay. Thanks! Thought it was a baseball player.
RB for the Tennessee Titans.
RB for the Tennessee Titans.
He’s a Running Back for the Tennessee Titans, Recently bought cars for his whole team, looks like predator from the Predator Series.
Who is Chris Johnson? 3B for the Astros?
Who is Chris Johnson? 3B for the Astros?
1 year wonder? This must be your rookie year of watching baseball… Votto’s numbers over the past 3 years:
2008: .297/.368/.506 with 24HR/32-2b/84RBI (24 years old)
2009: .322/.414/.567 with 25HR/38-2b/84RBI (25 years old)
2010: .324/.424/.600 with 37HR/36-2b/114RBI (26 years old)
2011:… entering his prime at 27.
I believe you are mistaken sir.
Beaten by two minutes! Plus you included age. Good show.
Beaten by two minutes! Plus you included age. Good show.
He definitely is no 1 year wonder but many hadn’t heard of him till this year when he really broke out and became an MVP caliber player. Probably b/c the Reds hadn’t made much of themselves till 2010 which is a pity for a guy with his ability. Dude is a monster for years to come.
He definitely is no 1 year wonder but many hadn’t heard of him till this year when he really broke out and became an MVP caliber player. Probably b/c the Reds hadn’t made much of themselves till 2010 which is a pity for a guy with his ability. Dude is a monster for years to come.
He definitely is no 1 year wonder but many hadn’t heard of him till this year when he really broke out and became an MVP caliber player. Probably b/c the Reds hadn’t made much of themselves till 2010 which is a pity for a guy with his ability. Dude is a monster for years to come.
Chris Johnson was robbed of the Rookie of the Year, and the MVP in back to back years. Chris Johnson has been in the 2009, 2010, and now the 2011 Pro Bowl, so you have no idea what you’re talking about. And, he had over 1,300 yards this past season.
Disagree with that. Unless Arian Foster deserves MVP, CJ does not. He was not MVP because they missed playoffs. I’d argue AP more valuable than him last year.
Johnson should have gotten it in 2009-2010 season. Peyton Manning wasn’t anywhere near Johnson.
Johnson should have gotten it in 2009-2010 season. Peyton Manning wasn’t anywhere near Johnson.
Okay, I see what you mean on that. I wasn’t talking about MVP in back to back years. I was talking about Rookie of the Year in 2008-2009, and MVP in 2009-2010.
ummm, this is a baseball website, who cares about football
ummm, this is a baseball website, who cares about football
People can reference now baseball questions on the weekly chats, but I can’t talk about football on here? That seems biased against me.
Try NFLtraderumors.com…. if there is one. It sounds like Chris Johnson picked the wrong sport.
Try NFLtraderumors.com…. if there is one. It sounds like Chris Johnson picked the wrong sport.
People can reference now baseball questions on the weekly chats, but I can’t talk about football on here? That seems biased against me.
ummm, this is a baseball website, who cares about football
wOBA/OPS by year:
2007 – .387/.907 (89 pa)
2008 – .373/.874 (first full year)
2009 – .418/.981
2010: .439/1.024
ONE YEAR WONDER!!!1!
Damn, hit like instead of reply. Votto is a beast. Anyone who is only 3 full seasons into his career and whose second best OPS+ is 156, is very good, and probably amongst the best at the time. Keep in mind I have no ties to Votto or the Reds, and a year ago when he was said to be in the same class as my beloved Adrian Gonzalez, I thought it was a vast overstatement. With not only his repeat, but his improved year, I no longer feel that way.
The Reds willingness to give him this contract should show you highly they think of him. This should prove to be a quick reminder to the teams with young stud bats, Braves, Giants immediately come to mind, that when it comes to studs, it’s better to sign them long-term a year early then a year late.
Where’s the damn unlike button?
lol what a joke of a post.
Doesn’t really make sense for the Reds. I can’t imagine Votto getting much more than this if he would have gone to arbitration 3 times.
Yeah, I agree. Maybe just a show of good faith so they can lock him up long term? But yeah, on its face it seems odd from the team perspective.
I completely agree. This locks in something like the highest three-year haul for a pre-FA player ever (someone may have exceeded $38M – I haven’t researched it exhaustively). I know the Reds want certainty so they can get involved in the FA market early, but what if his vertigo issues come back or something else? This costs them millions.
ummm, ryan howard, $44M for 3 years pre-FA. Read the article. It says it right there
ummm, ryan howard, $44M for 3 years pre-FA. Read the article. It says it right there
Ah yes… That wasn’t part of the article when I posted.
Ah yes… That wasn’t part of the article when I posted.
ummm, ryan howard, $44M for 3 years pre-FA. Read the article. It says it right there
I completely agree. This locks in something like the highest three-year haul for a pre-FA player ever (someone may have exceeded $38M – I haven’t researched it exhaustively). I know the Reds want certainty so they can get involved in the FA market early, but what if his vertigo issues come back or something else? This costs them millions.
The other MVP, Hamilton would probably want more for 3 years. Then again, he would be letting go of his first year of free agency. Anyway, how much did the Reds possibly save? This is just about 13 million a year.
Geeze that was pointless. I was hoping for at least 1 FA year
Clearly not all about money. The Reds are trying to build something here, and loyalty will go a long way to that. He did just win an MVP. These are the guys you make a point of treating well.
Going year to year on arb might have saved them 5-8 million bucks over three years, but there are other aspects to a solid business other than money.
i see what your trying to get at, but if it was about loyalty, why wouldn’t they (or votto) go further than the years that they are already sort of forced to be with eachother(barring trade). It doesn’t buy out any extra service time so i guess i’m missing the loyalty aspect.
Building loyalty in that, when it is time to renegotiate an extension or try to sign him as a FA, Votto understands that the team has tried to treat him well and values his service to the organization and the community.
as said below me, it could just be a show of good faith by both the Reds and Votto. This could save them dollars down the line (potentially a “home-town” discount when FA rolls around), or simply save them the best chance to re-sign him should he reach FA. They can also approach him the off-season before his walk-year about an extension and having Votto realize they gave him more than they needed to in his last three arbitration years, he might be more open to a long-term extension. Like Chuck said above me, there’s most likely more to it.
as said below me, it could just be a show of good faith by both the Reds and Votto. This could save them dollars down the line (potentially a “home-town” discount when FA rolls around), or simply save them the best chance to re-sign him should he reach FA. They can also approach him the off-season before his walk-year about an extension and having Votto realize they gave him more than they needed to in his last three arbitration years, he might be more open to a long-term extension. Like Chuck said above me, there’s most likely more to it.
Clearly not all about money. The Reds are trying to build something here, and loyalty will go a long way to that. He did just win an MVP. These are the guys you make a point of treating well.
Going year to year on arb might have saved them 5-8 million bucks over three years, but there are other aspects to a solid business other than money.
Clearly not all about money. The Reds are trying to build something here, and loyalty will go a long way to that. He did just win an MVP. These are the guys you make a point of treating well.
Going year to year on arb might have saved them 5-8 million bucks over three years, but there are other aspects to a solid business other than money.
man, Votto would look good in a Jays uniform! One can only dream.
With numbers like his I’d say he’d look good in just about any uniform in the MLB.
man, Votto would look good in a Jays uniform! One can only dream.
Horrible deal for the Reds. Votto likely would have gotten around this amount going year to year, unless his performance continues to trend upward.
The Reds already controlled him for these three years, and if he were to have a off year they would have had some protection. Votto gets his security and gives up nothing to the REds to get it. Win win for Votto
Vo
If Votto has years similar to what he had last year then he would likely get more through arbitration.
But, I think it would have been better for the Reds to go year by year unless Votto wanted to sign an extension that would buyout a few of his FA years because right now, I don’t see the point of buying out his arbitration years unless they want to save time and nother going through this process over and over again.
If Votto has years similar to what he had last year then he would likely get more through arbitration.
But, I think it would have been better for the Reds to go year by year unless Votto wanted to sign an extension that would buyout a few of his FA years because right now, I don’t see the point of buying out his arbitration years unless they want to save time and nother going through this process over and over again.
Horrible deal for the Reds. Votto likely would have gotten around this amount going year to year, unless his performance continues to trend upward.
The Reds already controlled him for these three years, and if he were to have a off year they would have had some protection. Votto gets his security and gives up nothing to the REds to get it. Win win for Votto
Vo
Horrible deal for the Reds. Votto likely would have gotten around this amount going year to year, unless his performance continues to trend upward.
The Reds already controlled him for these three years, and if he were to have a off year they would have had some protection. Votto gets his security and gives up nothing to the REds to get it. Win win for Votto
Vo
Although, by giving him money now instead of dragging him through 3 years of arbitration, maybe he becomes friends with front office and decides to comeback to the reds for less money , then lets say the dodgers offer him, just a thought , however we all know money talks, but as far the deal goes aubrey huff got 11 mil per year so they didnt overpay for votto even though he was arbitration eligible.
Considering the dollar figure associated with this deal I think you can safely rule out any future discounts. Lozano did much better financially for Votto then Boras did for Teixeira and Fielder at the same respective points in their careers. Hate this deal for future contracts in the game, bad precedent. Ryan Howard should have been left the exception. The kind of money associated with becoming the fastest player in the history of the game to hit 100 hr’s.
You can’t compare pre free agent years from one player to free agent years to another. It just doesn’t work that way. Votto new deal pays him less annually then he would have if he were a free agent right now, but that’s a moot point.
For comparisson Hanley Ramirez extension signed 4 1/2 baseball months earlier then Votto’s deal got him 23m for his arbitration years and then three free agent years at around 15m a piece. The differences between the two deals from the team & player’s standpoint is mind boggling.
I like Jockety less today then I did yesterday. Bet a whole lot of GM’s are cringing right now with this deal announced.
So Howard should get more because he can slug more HR’s, even though he’s actually worth less than Votto?
Although, by giving him money now instead of dragging him through 3 years of arbitration, maybe he becomes friends with front office and decides to comeback to the reds for less money , then lets say the dodgers offer him, just a thought , however we all know money talks, but as far the deal goes aubrey huff got 11 mil per year so they didnt overpay for votto even though he was arbitration eligible.
Although, by giving him money now instead of dragging him through 3 years of arbitration, maybe he becomes friends with front office and decides to comeback to the reds for less money , then lets say the dodgers offer him, just a thought , however we all know money talks, but as far the deal goes aubrey huff got 11 mil per year so they didnt overpay for votto even though he was arbitration eligible.
Also what is with the football talk. This is a year round baseball site. If not for Farve football wouldn’t have any rumors.
Playoffs ? its not october
Playoffs ? its not october
Playoffs ? its not october
The rule of thumb is that a player gets, in his first year of arb, 40% of what he’d get as a FA. Year two, it goes to 60%. Year 3, 80%. In total, it’s 1.8x what he’d get in one year as a free agent (of course, spread over three years).
At $38MM, the Reds are putting his FA value at $21.1MM, which is a little less than what Mark Teixiera got ($22.5MM annually). So the Reds are giving him pretty close to the upper bound of what’s fair, and they’re buying a ton of risk (injury risk mostly) in doing so. The Reds could have just gone to arb and come out similarly.
But really, we’re not talking about a big gap here. A more reasonable price would have been $33MM over 3 years, which assumes a FA salary of $18.33MM. For the extra $1.5/year the Reds are paying, there’s no need to hyper-analyze.
Very interesting take. And I tend to agree with you. Sure, there’s risk involved — just as there is with any multi-year agreement. And sure, they might be paying more than they absolutely needed to. But I see no reason to think this was a huge mistake on the part of Cincinnati.
The rule of thumb is that a player gets, in his first year of arb, 40% of what he’d get as a FA. Year two, it goes to 60%. Year 3, 80%. In total, it’s 1.8x what he’d get in one year as a free agent (of course, spread over three years).
At $38MM, the Reds are putting his FA value at $21.1MM, which is a little less than what Mark Teixiera got ($22.5MM annually). So the Reds are giving him pretty close to the upper bound of what’s fair, and they’re buying a ton of risk (injury risk mostly) in doing so. The Reds could have just gone to arb and come out similarly.
But really, we’re not talking about a big gap here. A more reasonable price would have been $33MM over 3 years, which assumes a FA salary of $18.33MM. For the extra $1.5/year the Reds are paying, there’s no need to hyper-analyze.
The rule of thumb is that a player gets, in his first year of arb, 40% of what he’d get as a FA. Year two, it goes to 60%. Year 3, 80%. In total, it’s 1.8x what he’d get in one year as a free agent (of course, spread over three years).
At $38MM, the Reds are putting his FA value at $21.1MM, which is a little less than what Mark Teixiera got ($22.5MM annually). So the Reds are giving him pretty close to the upper bound of what’s fair, and they’re buying a ton of risk (injury risk mostly) in doing so. The Reds could have just gone to arb and come out similarly.
But really, we’re not talking about a big gap here. A more reasonable price would have been $33MM over 3 years, which assumes a FA salary of $18.33MM. For the extra $1.5/year the Reds are paying, there’s no need to hyper-analyze.
This overpayment must arise from what the Rockies did earlier by giving Carlos Gonzalez and Tulowitzki extensions. The Rockies gave 20 million for free agent seasons for both Cargo and Tulowitzki and gave them top dollar for their arbitration years.
Sure you make the player feel good- but the club doesn’t get any value in return.
I’d say the overpayment arises from the MVP he was awarded, but that’s just one man’s opinion.
And the club clearly gets value in return. Not all about $
this comment is appearing here because disqs was glitching up really bad when it was posted
I’d say the overpayment arises from the MVP he was awarded, but that’s just one man’s opinion.
And the club clearly gets value in return. Not all about $
I’d say the overpayment arises from the MVP he was awarded, but that’s just one man’s opinion.
And the club clearly gets value in return. Not all about $
Is there a single team out there — aside from maybe whoever your favorite is — that you’re not cynical of?
I don’t know. Carlos Gonzalez got 22m for his 3 arbitration years. Of course O’Dowd had the brains to lock up both he and Tulo earlier in their careers, so that helped immensely for those years in question. Not sure why the Reds didn’t make signing Votto to a long-term deal prior to his MVP campaign a bigger priority. One of those dope moments. I’m sure right about now they’d love to increase their draft budget by a good 3m/yr for the next 3 years, or add one more FA piece to each years team.
Things worked out pretty great for Votto though. Surprised they couldn’t get a 20m team option with a 5m buyout tacked onto to the deal for their trouble, with the buyout being included in the 38m, most teams get a concession like that for their neck more on the line.
All this negativity, but the Reds do seem like a team to be reckoned with these next several years. Of course I thought the same about the Brewers a few years ago and they’ve been unspectacular.
I’d chalk this contract up in the “why bother” category. Votto’s unwillingness to give up any free agent years likely only means one thing. He plans on testing. You scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours. They should have got something better then a pleased ball player considering they guaranteed him 28m or so more money then they otherwise would of had to. They didn’t. Think that stinks for Red fans and the organization in general.
“Not sure why the Reds didn’t make signing Votto to a long-term deal prior to his MVP campaign a bigger priority.”
You obviously are not familiar with Joey Votto’s medical issue stemming from the 2009 season. That’s why
Forgot about his mid-season dizzy issues. So he missed about 30 games in the first half, comes back healthy and has a big second half, not that his numbers weren’t amazing when he did play in the first half. Seems like a pretty opportune time to gamble on the teams best player and get some concessions at the same time. Their caution, along with Votto’s extra big year, made those arbitration years a good 40-50% more expensive while ruling out any other club perks (like a couple 16-18m club option FA years).
Whatever the main driving force was for not going that route, it has become a costly mistake. Pujols and Votto share the same agent and signed long-term deals at the same time. Obviously this time around he wasn’t advising his client to give up his first five FA years for that kind of money (79m, 68m guaranteed). He also get Votto more money for those pre-FA years then he did for Pujols. Considering Jockety was the GM for both players, he had to be disappointed that the same good fortune didn’t repeat itself.
Hopefully contracts of this sort are the outlier rather then the new norm.
This overpayment must arise from what the Rockies did earlier by giving Carlos Gonzalez and Tulowitzki extensions. The Rockies gave 20 million for free agent seasons for both Cargo and Tulowitzki and gave them top dollar for their arbitration years.
Sure you make the player feel good- but the club doesn’t get any value in return.
This overpayment must arise from what the Rockies did earlier by giving Carlos Gonzalez and Tulowitzki extensions. The Rockies gave 20 million for free agent seasons for both Cargo and Tulowitzki and gave them top dollar for their arbitration years.
Sure you make the player feel good- but the club doesn’t get any value in return.
I hope he is getting paid in Canadian money, cause that would bring it up to $38.37 million American.
although its a minimal differentiation, it’s pretty damn depressing that the canadian dollar is worth more than the american… sigh
I hope he is getting paid in Canadian money, cause that would bring it up to $38.37 million American.
I hope he is getting paid in Canadian money, cause that would bring it up to $38.37 million American.
2014 Blue Jays first baseman.
2014 Blue Jays first baseman.
Three years to FA status, and Votto goes home to Toronto- sweet……..
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…Right, hometown discount for a team who never contends. Yep I totally see that 1 happening. Right division wrong team.
Check your info, dude- Votto himself said that it’s his dream to come home to play- it’s not exactly a secret around these parts that he didn’t intend to sign long-term with Cinci for that reason.
And no discount is needed- the Jays play in the fourth-biggest TV market in North America ( look up ‘Rogers Communications’ for reference) and payroll is not an issue. Anthopoulos has the cash, should he need it.
only problem is that by 2014 Jays should have a 1st baseman in place. I cant see them bandaiding the issue for the next 3 years in the hopes of landing votto
Great deal for the reds, but at the same time, hes probably going to leave in 3 years, wish we could have signed him longer.
Final thought on this, b/c I personally love the deal: If you wanted to alienate Votto and all but ensure that he doesn’t come back in 3 years, go ahead and go year to year w/ him. If there’s any guy in this organization that you do whatever you can to take care of right now, it’s Joey. He didn’t want to give away any FA years, but he was open to getting his arb years out of the way.
That’s what the Reds did, rather than acting like a******* and forcing him to either give up a FA year or go year to year. So yeah, I love the deal. They weren’t going to do any better, and this is a guy that you want to keep as happy as possible.
I agree with most of the ppl that scratched their heads about this. Chances are that thru arbitration Votto probably wouldn’t have received much more than $38 mil. To not buy out any of the FA years does the team little good. The ONLY benefit it has to the club is that it helps them avoid the messy confrontation that you see when a team must voice the preceived deficiencies of one of their own players, which is usually why teams try to avoid the hearing all together. It’s like telling your girlfriend all the things she’s bad at or can improve physically and then asking her to marry you. Sort of self-defeating.
Votto gets all the security though. Chances are, even if the arbitors were favorable in their 1st year and granted something above $7mil it would’ve been something like….
$10 mil, $13 mil and $15 mil which adds up to………..$38 mil. But if Votto suffers and injury or falls off a cliff then he get’s the benefit of getting paid huge amounts of MVP caliber money (for arb player) w/o having to play like one.
Awesome analogy!
It is what it is … obviously the Reds wanted a longer term contract but more then likely weren’t able to get that from Joey. At some point they had to say … OK, if we can’t get you signed long term … lets just get the next three years covered so we don’t have to go thru this process again. So I can understand the Reds going ahead with this deal … He’ll be 30 when this deal runs out … who know swhat kind of player he will be by then
Prince Fielder but not fat?
Ryan Howard but not 6’5 and a better avg?
Joey Votto will never be a Blue Jay. He’ll wind up signing long term in Cincy, becasue Cincy gives him the better chance to win. Toronto will never be able compete in the AL East
people used to say the same thing about tampa bay…. I don’t know why I’m replying to you though, people who made dumb arse comments like yours almost never back them up.
I originally thought this was a good deal for both sides…After reading a lot of the comments, I get now that this is a much better deal for the votto camp than the reds. . . To say that they did this to keep him happy in hopes that he will sign a long term deal is a pretty absurd justification in my opinion. . The only way this deal would have worked is if he gave up 1 year of free agency and they made it a 4 year deal.
This is a Cards fan’s nightmare “First Albert now Votto extending why,why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
This is a Cards fan’s nightmare “First Albert now Votto extending why,why!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
For the Reds, this seems like high risk, low reward to me. Best case scenario they save a few million. Worst case scenario they throw away $30m (assuming Votto was to be paid $8m this season had it gone to arbitration).
Not saying it is likely that Votto breaks his skull and never plays again, or slumps to the point where he’d get minimal raises through arbitration, but it’s just not something I’d want to gamble $30m on if the maximum benefit is only a few million in savings…
If it bought out an additional year or two of his free agency, I’d be all for it.
Glad to hear Joey say he can’t and doesn’t see himself playing anywhere else … as expected … one of the pluses to him on this deal is getting arb out of the way.
Prior to 2010, the last Playoff appearance by the Reds was in 1995. The Jays, 1993 when they won.
big difference? I say no
Why compare him to Ryan Howard. He had a monster year last year, but the years before that he did good to ok.