Congratulations to Roberto Alomar and Bert Blyleven, who were voted to the Baseball Hall of Fame today by the Baseball Writers' Association of America.
Alomar was one of the most complete players in baseball for 17 years, making spectacular plays at second base and adding value at the plate and on the bases. He played on the World Series Champion Blue Jays in 1992 and 1993 and also spent time on the Padres, Indians, Orioles, Mets, White Sox and Diamondbacks. Alomar won ten Gold Gloves and made 12 All-Star teams. He posted a career .300/.371/.443 line and retired with 210 home runs, 474 stolen bases, 504 doubles, 2724 hits and 1508 runs scored.
Blyleven first appeared on the Hall of Fame ballot in 1998 and has steadily gained support; he was just 0.8% short of the 75% threshold last year. He retired with a 3.31 ERA (118 ERA+) in 4970 innings. Blyleven ranks 14th all-time in innings and fifth all-time in strikeouts (3701). His 287 wins place him 27th in baseball history.
If you aren’t a top tier player, writers will make you wait a while until they vote you in.
If you are a top tier player, the writers will not vote you in because clearly the
only way you could have gotten there was roids.
Man the whole system is messed up.
Can they just go ahead and rename it the Hall of the “hey, they were pretty good.”
I hear you. But that seems like a comment that would belong in a thread about Jim Rice or Andre Dawson more than one on Blyleven and Alomar.
Actually I don’t think Blyleven should be in. In his time he was an above average pitcher, not an elite one.
Actually I don’t think your assertion is correct. Please note that while you cannot see me, I am indeed making funny faces at you.
Oh I get it… your method of arguing is the equivalent of a child holding his breath.
At least everyone else is giving me thought out reasons.
no way. look at his carrer numbers. yeah, I know he had tremendous longevity, but to be perfectly honest, Cal Ripken only had one outstanding year, he had awesome career because of longevity. Over 3700 strikeouts? Only four other men in history have surpassed that. He has much better numbers than many other pitchers already in the hall. Congratulations, Bert! Writers finally did you right.
A victim of spending most of his career playing on poor and obscure teams.
Had he played his career in NY, Boston, etc he would have been an easy choice.
He threw the most wicked curveball I’ve ever seen in my life. Some guys today are filthy but I’m not sure any one of them can hold a candle to Bert.
On a related note – disappointing results for Larkin (who should have been voted in with Alomar) and for Tim Raines.
He could have spent more time on good teams if he didn’t quit on them. Hall of Famer’s don’t go home for a couple of weeks to pout.
As opposed to the big asterisk-shaped building they need to open up for guys like Clemens, Bagwell, McGuire, etc?
Don’t associate Bagwell with the other two. There is ZERO evidence that he did roids. Please limit the McCarthyism.
Like this 10 million times.
It’s an absolute joke that Bagwell didn’t get as a first ballot guy.
Just my opinion, but Bagwell was on the sauce for sure. Look at any photo taken of him just a year or so after his retirement. The dude has the same build as Pee Wee Herman. If you really want to know if he was or not, ask Jose Canseco. I think he’s batting 1000 on who did and who didn’t.
The fact is anyone in the modern age is going to be under suspicious. There’s rumors that half the league was on steroids at some point.
But there’s no proof on Bagwell and he was an elite hitter for a good deal of time.
“Just my opinion, but Bagwell was on the sauce for sure”
Thats not an opinion. That’s a factual assertion you made, and how are you “for sure.” Its stupid claims like this that makes this website’s community so awful.
My apologies Mr. S. Allow me to rephrase my statement in an attempt to save the reputation of your beloved board. Here goes. Mm hmmm…
I am of the opinion that Jeffrey Bagwell, professional major league baseball player for the Houston Astros, partook in the practice of ingesting performance enhancing drugs. I find his post playing appearance falls in line with other know steroid users who appear “deflated” to a degree after they cease to utilize steroids and other drugs known to enhance performance. Some may argue that he merely discontinued his workout regimen upon retirement. I would argue that discontinuing a workout program would not result in someone appearing to lose almost all the muscle they put on while still playing the game.
Again, I reiterate, this is merely my opinion. These statements are in no way made to prosecute Mr. Bagwell, or bring shame to Mr. S’s precious public message board. If these comments offend Mr. Bagwell, or more importantly, Mr. S, I wholeheartedly apologize.
Sincerely,
Mr. Kickme Inthenads, III
No that is not “merely an opinion.” I just don’t think you get it.
Saying “I don’t like Jeff Bagwell” is an opinion. Saying “Jeff Bagwell’s beard was stupid” is an opinion. Saying “Jeff Bagwell did PEDs” is not an opinion, it is a thesis statement of which you must provide supporting evidence to back up your claims.
I missed the part of the sign up process where it said “supporting evidence must be provided for all ‘thesis statements'”.
I missed the part where we switched from “innocent until proven guilty” to “guilty until proven innocent”.
Just an opinion, but you don’t know what you’re talking about for sure.
Bags was a dedicated lifter for the first 10 or 12 years of his career. The guy lifted for eight hours A DAY in the off season. Shoulder injuries forced him to stop lifting towards the end of his career. That’s why he shrunk so quickly.
Have you ever worked out? You know how when you do so for a few months, you get in shape slowly and then when you stop, you fall out of shape very very quickly? Yeah, that’s how it is.
Canseco and McGwire were dedicated lifters as well. Were you his personal trainer or did you just admire him from afar for the 8 hours a day he was in the gym? Perhaps he was in the gym for so many hours to get the full benefit of the “supplements” he was taking.
Big difference: Canseco and McGwire were both accused of steroid use and both eventually admitted that they did, in fact, use steroids.
Bagwell, on the other hand, has never been accused, even by Canseco, who has been willing to point a finger at anyone to make a buck.
Again, I’m all for “innocent until proven guilty”. If you want to continue to point your finger at anyone who put up big numbers in the Steroid Era, that’s your right. But at least come up with some substantial arguments. “This guy was big and he used steroids, so this guy who was big must have used steroids” doesn’t count.
“Just my opinion, but Bagwell was on the sauce for sure.”
I wish you were sued for libel. Or just had a decent education. This is the most poorly written, illogical sentence I’ve seen on this site in maybe ever.
Maybe he just got kicked in the nads too many times.
Are you Bagwell’s dad? Settle down Pedro. I’m not the first one to mention Bags and juice in the same sentence. It was called “The Steroid Era”, remember?
I’m uneducated? “in maybe ever”?
Are you just going to whitewash every player who played in that era then? Cool story Hansel, lets just forget the last 20 years then shall we?
I never said he shouldn’t get into Hall. I just said I think he was on the sauce. There will be many players who did PED’s that will get into the HoF, some worthy, some not.
Please allow me to channel my favorite Kansas City Royals “source” quote.
————–
“Just my opinion, but Bagwell was on the sauce for sure.” – Kickme Inthenads
“Everyone thought it was the ‘most poorly written, illogical sentence’ on this site in the history of whatever.” – Royals source.
The reason Bagwell looks the way he does now is simple. The degenerative shoulder condition that forced an end to his career also forced him to stop lifting weights. That’s why he shrunk so quickly. He has never tested positive, nor was he implicated by the Mitchell Report or anyone credible. You can’t say that every power hitter in this era juiced. There were plenty of pure power hitters in baseball before steroids, so there is no reason to say that there were none in the steroid era just because a group of them are known to have cheated. Bagwell was clean, and if his numbers aren’t enough to get him in, his character should. He was the consummate professional and a great team leader. If Bags doesn’t get into the Hall, it’ll be a travesty. And I wouldn’t listen to a word Canseco said. He’s just an attention hog.
The reason Bagwell looks the way he does now is simple. The degenerative shoulder condition that forced an end to his career also forced him to stop lifting weights. That’s why he shrunk so quickly. He has never tested positive, nor was he implicated by the Mitchell Report or anyone credible. You can’t say that every power hitter in this era juiced. There were plenty of pure power hitters in baseball before steroids, so there is no reason to say that there were none in the steroid era just because a group of them are known to have cheated. Bagwell was clean, and if his numbers aren’t enough to get him in, his character should. He was the consummate professional and a great team leader. If Bags doesn’t get into the Hall, it’ll be a travesty. And I wouldn’t listen to a word Canseco said. He’s just an attention hog.
He only got 41%. He’s not getting in until/unless all the steroids guys get in. May be unfair, but it’s reality. He can’t prove a negative.
Thats my point, he shouldn’t have to.
or my personal favorite, “The Harold Baines Hall of Very Good”
It;s about TIME Blyleven got in
Good for Bert and Roberto. I wish Bert had been a Ranger longer, but he, like Kenny Rogers, had issues with television cameras.
Finally. Blyleven’s numbers aren’t far off from Nolan Ryan’s. He should have been in years ago.
Except Ryan continually lead the league in strikeouts and H/9.
Pitcher A
Career 162 game avg – 3.31 ERA / 245 IP / 12 CG / 183 Ks / 1.19 WHIP
11 year peak – 2.94 ERA / 258 IP / 14 CG / 202 Ks / 1.17 WHIP
Pitcher B
Career 162 game avg – 3.19 ERA / 232 IP / 10 CG / 246 Ks / 1.24 WHIP
11 year peak – 3.03 ERA / 251 IP / 16 CG / 268 Ks / 1.28 WHIP
Basically, they are the same pitchers. While K/9 is a neat stat it really isn’t anything other than being useful for projecting how good a pitcher may be. What counts is the end result.
Blyleven (pitcher A) matches Ryan (pitcher B) in virtually every important category. Extra points goes to Ryan for a longer a career. Certainly I think Ryan is the better pitcher BUT the gap is very, very narrow.
All Star Games: Ryan 8, Blyleven 2
No-hitters: Ryan 7, Blyleven 1
Clearly All Star Games should be the primary measure of a HOFer.
Seasons of 5.0 WAR or higher: Ryan-5, Blyleven-10
Complete Games: Ryan-222, Blyleven -242
Career shutouts Ryan-61, Blyleven -60
Both are worthy HOF’ers.
Let me rephrase my point. Ultimately I see Blyleven as an above average pitcher, his career ERA+ was 118, above average, nothing great, and his career numbers are mostly based on his longevity. He rarely lead the league in anything.
Yes, Ryan’s career numbers are similar except Ryan did something phenomenal, he set a strikeout record that’s basically akin to Henderson’s stolen base record, Cy Young’s win total, and Walter Johnson’s shutout record. It will hold possibly forever.
Ryan continually lead the league is strikeouts and H/9. That’s why he’s in the Hall. Cut his strikeout numbers down to Blyleven’s numbers and then we’d simply say he one of the most wild pitchers ever to play the game.
Nolan Ryan’s ERA+ was 112. He had 1 season where he was truly elite (150 or higher on ERA+).
Ryan certainly is the owner of the K and H9. He also owns the record for the most BB’s ever issued. Having a BB/9 of nearly 5 is pretty darn awful. One of the worst ever for a starting pitcher.
He leads R. Johnson by 840 K’s (out of a total of 5700 K’s)
He leads S. Carlton by 962 BB’s (out of a total of 2800 BB’s)
There are people close to his K’s total. NOBODY is even remotely close to catching Ryan’s walk totals.
No CY (not that I care), no MVP’s, no playoff success. He certainly had a ton of no-hitters but I rank that up there with other useless measurements (like All-Star appearances).
All I’m saying is that they are both very, very similar players. Ryan gets extra credit for holding a major all-time record. He loses points since his numbers are in large part due to his extended career (similar argument to keeping out guys like Baines).
My point is if Ryan gets in with 98.2% on the 1st ballot why did it take Blyleven 13 years to barely squeak in?
Nolan Ryan’s ERA+ was 112. He had 1 season where he was truly elite (150 or higher on ERA+).
Ryan certainly is the owner of the K and H9. He also owns the record for the most BB’s ever issued. Having a BB/9 of nearly 5 is pretty darn awful. One of the worst ever for a starting pitcher.
He leads R. Johnson by 840 K’s (out of a total of 5700 K’s)
He leads S. Carlton by 962 BB’s (out of a total of 2800 BB’s)
There are people close to his K’s total. NOBODY is even remotely close to catching Ryan’s walk totals.
No CY (not that I care), no MVP’s, no playoff success. He certainly had a ton of no-hitters but I rank that up there with other useless measurements (like All-Star appearances).
All I’m saying is that they are both very, very similar players. Ryan gets extra credit for holding a major all-time record. He loses points since his numbers are in large part due to his extended career (similar argument to keeping out guys like Baines).
My point is if Ryan gets in with 98.2% on the 1st ballot why did it take Blyleven 13 years to barely squeak in?
Amen – A WAR of 90.1 for his career (!!!) and 60 shutouts. It’s BS that the committee gets so hung up on the 300-win threshold. One more year and he probably would have got there (he finished with 287 wins).
And don’t forget that the man lost a ton of games by one run. Those games could have gone either way, unfortunately they went the way that hurt him.
Tim Raines should be in…
Agree. And Alan Trammell’s vote totals are preposterously low. One of the best shortstops to play the game.
Lou Whitaker AND Ron Santo have more career WAR than Robin Yount.
He’ll get a boost once Larkin gets in. Their stats are much more similar than I thought they were before looking today.
I assume Blyleven will go in as a Twin and Alomar as a Blue Jay.
Idk…I think alomar should go in as a Met
COngrats Robbie! First player in HOF with a Jays hat!!
Roberto Alomar seems like a true Hall of Famer. Blyleven seems a little like Don Sutton to me…..the product of a lengthy career. Call him “Hall of Very Good”….but if Joe Tinker gets in…..why not?
Hall of the “pretty good.” Neither Blyleven nor Alomar ever finished above 3rd in MVP or Cy Young voting. Sad.
So what? Since when did 1 amazing season constitute a hall of fame career. Its about how long someone can be good as well
I guess to you Eric Gagne and Bartolo Colon are more deserving?
Blyleven should have finished higher in Cy Young voting, look at the numbers from those years on baseball reference. He was always underrated. Larkin should have made it in.
Baseball voters are clueless and things need to change. Make every award and the HOF entirely stats based.
Would anyone cry foul if the HOF only let in players who had over 70 WAR? Oh no, Phil Rizzuto doesnt get in the Hall, who cares?
Yeah, because voting for MVP awards and Cy Young awards is always completely, 100% accurate and undisputed.
What season should he have won it? Or even finished higher? Over 20 seasons, if a guy isn’t recognized as even the 2nd best pitcher in his league (a smaller league than today), that says something. He was a great pitcher but really just good and durable, nothing legendary.
He only made the All-Star team twice!
I sincerely hope the all-star comment is sarcasm…
Mark Redman was an All-Star. It doesn’t mean anything.
That’s it… GET MARK REDMAN IN THE HOF ASAP!
Sad? You do realize that Nolan Ryan never won a Cy, and only finished 2nd once in Cy voting in his career? So then does Ryan constitute your “pretty good” remark?
Funny how on some SP all time rankings pages, BB is in the top 50 (no 38 to be exact), but he isn’t HOF worthy? THere are 72 pitchers all ready in the hall and BB shouldn’t be? According to some lists, he is better than approximately half the pitchers in the hall.
Look at ERA+ not awards. You would think a guy who has the 4th most SHUTOUTS of the modern era (9th all time) would have more respect. Shutouts mean you dominated a team. Blyleven dominated teams. Whats that other stat which shows a pitchers dominance over a hitter? Oh yeah, strikeouts, he’s 5th all time in those.
Why on earth did this take so long? And why is anyone arguing it? Oh yeah, a large majority of baseball writers and fans are lacking intelligence and dont subscribe to common sense.
Alomar spat on an umpire and Blyleven is not a hall of famer –
Well, good thing you’re not on the BBWAA then.
Ty Cobb was a racist who beat up several people, Rube Waddell used to strip and get dress in his uniform on the field, several other HOF pitchers admitted to scuffing up the ball for several years BEFORE they were elected into the hall.
Being a nice or sane guy isn’t a prerequisite.
Being a nice or sane guy isn’t a prerequisite.
Very true…historically. However, that doesn’t mean things have to stay that way. Precedents don’t make themselves – people perpetuate them…and they can stop any time they decide to. Nothing wrong with that, and in fact I’d welcome it. Some precedents need to go.
BTW, don’t forget Rogers Hornsby for your “Hall Of Bigot-ball!”
The umpire forgave him and the two are now friends. If he can forgive him, I’m sure you can.
Well Robbie Alomar definitey had the chops to make it to the Hall – although it does seem like he has an issue about keeping his bodily fluids where they belong…
Still, I agree that there’s nothing wrong with the HOF/Baseball Writers establishing and maintaining a reasonable level of class as it “immortalizes” folks.
Alomar also corked his bat.
When was that?
Lawdy. And thus, the can of worms has been opened.
This good guy vs. bad guy = HOFer discussion could (and probably will) go on for days; months; years. And it’s a good amount of wasted breath, ’cause the polarization is strong and few will change their opinions… Or (worse yet) be enlightened by any of the discussion.
I really hope Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens were watching when this vote came out. McGwire goes back under 20% and Palmerio starts his votes off with a horrific 11%.
The writers have made it clear, no admission for cheaters in the HOF.
I think Gaylord Perry has something to say about that.
And yet Don Sutton and Gaylord Perry are both in the hall.
I don’t see why the Hall doesn’t just open a “Steroid Era” branch.
The Steroid Era is just as big a stain on the history of MLB as the segregation era. Taking the hit and moving on makes more sense than pretending like it never happened by blocking the stars of the era out of the Hall of Fame.
Have a disclaimer on the wall before visitors enter “The Steroid Era” that says something about how we’ll never truly know who was clean and who wasn’t, but the players who tested positive for steroids or were proven guilty of using steroids in front of a court of law will be noted.
Personal, I think keeping suspected steroid users out is a mistake. No asterisks either. History already knows, that’s enough of a taint.
It’s pretty much universally accepted that Bonds and Clemens were steroid users. And it’s kind of thought that Bonds took steroids after the McGwire/Sosa race and Clemens after being released by Boston. Except they were already elite players, probably already in the Hall.
That’s my issue with Bonds and Clemens, if you remove all of their tainted stats, they’re still in the HOF. Both those guys were going in long before the needle hit their butts. Just put them in and get over it.
Guys like Palmero, Sosa, McGwire without the juice would probably make it in too now, after all Blyleven and Dawson got in so the bars coming down. Maybe not Sosa but the other two are good enough for the Hall of Good.
Alomar spat on an umpire and corked his bat. Thats a sweet combo of bad sportsmanship and cheating.
When did Alomar use a corked bat?
Alomar didn’t cork his bat… that was Sammy Sosa and Albert Belle.
Well Pete In high school you skinned a cat and told everyone that your best friend George was a cross dresser, so you’re not any better…
See, making up things is fun.
Well Pete In high school you skinned a cat and told everyone that your best friend George was a cross dresser, so you’re not any better…
See, making up things is fun.
No admission for people who have been ACCUSED of cheating. Which, unfortunately, is a pretty wide swath of players that may or may not have juiced.
What if a player used steroids in 1 year. Outside of that year the player was a HOF’er. Do we keep them out?
Assuming that Bonds was clean prior to going to SF do we vote him based off his pre-steroids?
There are many cheaters in the HOF. How about the spit ball, emery board, Amphetimine HOFers. The writer are hypocrites if they think they should keep steroid users out. Do they want us to believe that only the players in the Mitchel report took steriods. I say, let them in. Bonds, Clemens, Manny ,and A-Rod are four of the best players of all time. When I played 90% of the players took greenies and some of them are in the HOF.
Different hall… different rules.
In NFL voting, off field antics are not allowed to be considered where in baseball, integrity, character and fair play are all considered.
Last time I checked, cheating and hurting the image of the game was something you would not expect from someone of character and fair play.
Anyone know how Fred McGriff did in the voting? I’m a long-time fan of his, so I’m curious.
He went down. 17.9% Done. Maybe he can make it as a manager or sports writer/commentator.
He has a future in the commercial business.
I’m just waiting for Tom Emansky to release his latest video.
Jon Heyman and Ken Rosenthal revealed their HOF votes on MLB Network.
Rosenthal voted for McGriff, but not Jeff Bagwell. As the Australians would say, WTF, mate?
I voted for McGriff for the Hall of Guys Who Were Pretty Good For 20 Years And Almost Hit 500 Home Runs.
In all honestly, McGriff had a nice peak (.288/.390/.545 from ’88 to ’94), but it wasn’t long enough. And his stats after that peak were so “meh” (.284/.367/.482). And he didn’t compare to the other first basemen of his time: Bagwell, McGwire, Frank Thomas.
I’m disappointed Bert got in, for no other reason than we don’t get to hear him whine every year about NOT getting. Who will we make fun of every year about being a baby now that Goose and Bert are in.
Palmeiro?
Anyone disputing whether these two guys deserve to be in the Hall is either trolling or brain-dead (or both).
Let’s make things interesting an have a ballot to vote players OUT of the HoF.
Who’s first?
1985 makes a great argument for Bert to win the Cy. Yes, slightly higher ERA, and his wins were rough due to bad team, but 24 CG, led in SO, More starts, More Shutouts, Most IP, over 200 SO… In today’s voting, I think he not only at least deserved second in the voting, but should’ve gotten the CY over Saberhagen. It looks like his wins were the only thing holding him back according to the stats.
1984 also makes a strong argument for him to win the Cy
How is Edgar not getting the votes to get in. He is by far the best DH there ever has been and you name an award after him and his states are hall of fame numbers. The only argument you hear for him not getting in is that was a DH and only played half the game. first off he just playing by the rules he did not make up being a DH he just played the position the coach gave him and played it dam well. Also saying he only played half the game is BS. He had more of an impact then most players so what if he was not in the field. Here some stats that I find interesting Mariano Rivera all time best closer and a shoe in for the hall of fame. Rivera has 1150 innings pitched while upcoming ace Felix Hernandez has pitched 1154.2 innings. Rivera innings are equivalent to 127.7 full nine inning games. So to know that Rivera is a shoe in when he has less impact the Edgar kinda pisses me off. if Edgar does not get in soon its going to be a travesty
I’m torn on Edgar. I do think it’s pretty stupid that he would have received much more HOF attention had he given away runs playing awful defense at first or third.
But 1500 runs and 1500 rbi are a pretty good prerequisite for a power hitter, and Edgar wasn’t even close to either of those despite playing a fairly long career.
He did have a nice 11-year peak though: .322/.430/.537 from 1990 to 2000
I’m torn on Edgar. I do think it’s pretty stupid that he would have received much more HOF attention had he given away runs playing awful defense at first or third.
But 1500 runs and 1500 rbi are a pretty good prerequisite for a power hitter, and Edgar wasn’t even close to either of those despite playing a fairly long career.
He did have a nice 11-year peak though: .322/.430/.537 from 1990 to 2000
Maybe the lack of homeruns? I don’t know. He’s still eligible for next year, so maybe some sort of grass roots campaign is in order. The guy was a beast of a hitter.
Maybe the lack of homeruns? I don’t know. He’s still eligible for next year, so maybe some sort of grass roots campaign is in order. The guy was a beast of a hitter.
Is it just me, or does anybody else think that the 15 year rule of eligibility is ridiculous? I’m not going to argue that BB doesn’t have great statistics in comparison to others, but at least half of the voters that voted today probably didn’t even cover him during his career.
His first two years of eligibility he got 17% and then 14%. Obviously the writers who actually covered him didn’t think he was hall worthy.
Letting players have 15 years of chances is what is turning the Hall of Fame into the “Hall of really good.” Not to mention you put guys like Dawson and Blyleven through years of tortue to find out if they’ll ever get in.
It’s a snowball effect. When guys with more question marks get in like Sutter, Blyleven, Dawson, etc etc you start to think “Well, if Sutter gets in then so and so has better stats here here and here.”
I just think 15 years is way too long. Just my .02.
Or, today’s voters realize that there’s more to the game like antiquated stats like Wins. You can’t tell me that back in 1995, the senior voters weren’t immediately discrediting Blyleven for his “mere” 287 Wins. If he’d have had the exact same numbers, across the board, but played on a better team for 2-3 years and received 13 more Wins, he’d have been in the Hall a long time ago in all likelihood.
I’m sorry, when you rank 5th all-time in K’s and 9th all-time in shutouts, even if it’s the result of tremendous longevity, you deserve to be in the Hall. And who’s to say that longevity shouldn’t factor in? When evaluating a pitcher’s rank among the all-time greats, maybe I’m in the minority, but I’ll take a guy who was a consistently great but maybe not elite pitcher for 20 years over someone who was phenomenal for 4-5 years and then faded out.
And really, early on in his career, Blyleven qualified as elite… he just settled into more “great” or “very good” in his later years. He should be in, and it’s been a long time coming. Way to go Bert, you deserve it.
Of the Top 20 pitchers in MLB history in shutouts, only Blyleven wasn’t a HOFer. Fifth all time in K’s, ninth in shutouts… 11 full seasons with an ERA of 3.00 or better (and one of 3.03) and averaging 240+ innings in all of those years… I’m sorry, I just don’t buy that Blyleven isn’t a Hall of Famer. He broke into the league at 19 and was immediately an elite pitcher. His numbers trailed off by the end of his career, but he’s a phenomenal talent with longevity that’s just not seen anymore in today’s game.
Only four people have ever struck out more hitters and only eight have more shutouts to their name. Argue that the stats are a result of his longevity and not his actual talent level, fine, but I’d argue that it’s that longevity and durability that make him one of the best ever. Along with that curveball, of course.
Congratulations Bert, it’s about time!
Well put. If 60 shutouts and 3700+ strikeouts aren’t Hall-worthy, then the HoF doesn’t mean jack **** to me.
haha I just wrote a similar rant, half his career was under 3.00 Era and he was almost never above four…he struckout and pitched deep into ballgames what more could you want?
Forget that… Hall Of Famers are more than just the best of the game, they are ambassadors of the sport, which is why Ingegrity, character and fair play are necessary when voting members in. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want McGwire, Palmerio, Bond or Clemens anywhere near Copperstown. Ever. All you go take a seat on the exile bench next to Pete Rose.
Inducting cheaters is not good for the game, and I am proud of how the writers are conducting themselves with their votes. When making his speech at Cooperstown during his induction, Andre Dawson said something I completely agree with. Those who took steriods made their choice concerning their legacy, now they have to live with the fallout that comes with it. That mean exile from the HOF.
Maybe we can vote for “The Exile Bench”.
On Andre Dawson: If he can get into the Hall of Fame living with a legacy of a .323 OBP and a barely over .800 OPS, I would think that Palmeiro should be allowed in with a legacy of a failed steroid test.
Except that’s not true. Greatest stars of the game were nasty and cheated. We could go down the list of Hall of Famers and there would be something in 99% of them that someone would say violates some ethics.
I guess Kevin Millar is a HOFer then.
I guess Kevin Millar is a HOFer then.
One more thing: I don’t think I would have let Ty Cobb babysit my kids, but I sure as heck would have loved to see him play baseball.
We’re talking about the BASEBALL Hall of Fame. Not the Baseball Players Who Were Also Flawless Human Beings Hall of Fame.
Forget that… Hall Of Famers are more than just the best of the game, they are ambassadors of the sport, which is why Ingegrity, character and fair play are necessary when voting members in. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want McGwire, Palmerio, Bond or Clemens anywhere near Copperstown. Ever. All you go take a seat on the exile bench next to Pete Rose.
Inducting cheaters is not good for the game, and I am proud of how the writers are conducting themselves with their votes. When making his speech at Cooperstown during his induction, Andre Dawson said something I completely agree with. Those who took steriods made their choice concerning their legacy, now they have to live with the fallout that comes with it. That mean exile from the HOF.
I mean baseball talent and WS rings is one thing, but things disrespectul to the game should also be considered..just my own opinion.. I dont think spitting on anyone is really cool, but these supposedly adult pro ball players who set examples for kids growing up watching their heroes play…
I don’t think it’s cool to block perhaps the third best second baseman (behind Hornsby and Morgan) in baseball history, and probably the absolute best defensive second baseman in baseball history, from the Hall of Fame just because he lost his temper once in 17 years.
Players are under no obligation to be “role models for kids,” and the way the League (and society) spoil and pamper them as if they could do no wrong, there’s even less incentive for them to do so. However, behaving decently in general should be part of every player’s “game.”
Otherwise I agree with what you say.
The Cobra is out. Aw. Okay, probably not HOF-worthy, but as a fan of those great 70s Pittsburgh clubs, this still tugs at my heart-strings. Maybe the Bucs will retire his #39. The dude raked in his day.
I long for a HOF class of the 2007 caliber. Maybe there should be a Hall of Fame and a Hall of Legends. Or at least dedicate a wing of the Hall to those who received a vote above 90%. The MLB HOF honor roll. 😉
Maybe they could just make it more difficult to find the Rizzutos and the Mazeroskis of the Hall.
Little Jimmy: “Excuse me, sir. Where can I find Phil Rizzuto?”
HOF Employee: “Oh, his plaque is behind the soda machines in the gift shop.”
Little Jimmy: “Ok… What about Bill Mazeroski?”
HOF Employee: “Men’s room. Third stall from the right. Look up.”
I want to know who the hell voted for Benito Santiago. Is his mom eligible to vote?
Heh, awesome.
Heh, awesome.
Throwing out guys from your knees is pretty cool.
I want to know who the hell voted for Benito Santiago. Is his mom eligible to vote?
Congratulations to Both! Now when Jim “Kitty” Kaat FINALLY gets nominated I will be happy.
I think Alomar should be in but Bert no way. The Hall is starting to become watered down. This means that Mussina, John, Kaat, and Morris are going to make the Hall. They all were better than Bert.
I’ll sell my baseball glove and renounce my fandom if Mike Mussina, Tommy John, Jim Kaat or Jack Morris ever make the Hall of Fame.
That is just it.. They have already done it.. Either boot them out, make a sub section (perhaps) get rid of the old geezers committee that everyone knows admits even more people non deserving. Stop admitting umpires, managers and such.
There is just so much that has gone wrong, really over the last 30 years with the HOF and it has stopped becoming what it originally was and has become some crazy side show now instead. A crying shame.
SI writer Joe Posnanski wrote about Blyleven vs. Morris in a recent blog (Dec. 30th) called “Hall of Fame: The Eight Definites” which talks about people crazily voting for Morris, but not voting for Blyleven.
You should read it, Blyleven is in fact better than Morris.
to be honest, i’m shocked that John Franco didn’t make it past the first ballot…he is the all time lefty saves leader (the only with over 400) and retired with the second most saves all time behind Lee Smith. I’m also disappointed in the poor showings by John Olerud and yes, Rafael Palmiero…he may have been on roids, but roids didn’t help him get 4 40 double seasons and collect over 3000 hits
Alot of idiots would rather have a guy who was best person at his position for 3 years than a guy who was probably top 5 in his position for over 2 decades, its absurd. Bert had an ERA under 3, 10 times to 5 times over 4 and all but one of those came when he was 35+ years old and twice it was 4.01 and once was when he pitched 20 innings. He did it during the roid era, he stuckout 5th most all time. threw nearly 5,000 innings had nearly 300 wins had 242 complete games!!! You could take the ten best pitchers nowadays and they wouldnt have half that in their career. 60 shutouts as well. welcome to the HOF Bert well deserved!
Forget the steroid era, how about the Amphetimine era. I agree, players have been cheating since baseball began. I think players like Clemens, Bonds, Manny, A-Rod and others are locks for the Hall of Fame. They are the best players of their time. Amphetimine use goes back to the 50s, and they made some players big leaguers, and helped their stats alot. You have players in the Hall that threw spit balls and doctored the ball. The problem is the media wants to know everything about the game today, and they feel more power by keeping players out.
It’s about time. Blyleven in ’11!
Morris was a big game pitcher,Blyleven wasn’t!
That is just plain idiotic. For his career, Bert was on two WS winners, had a post season ERA of 2.47 and a WS ERA of 2.35.
I would just like to see Bagwell and Biggio go into the hall at the same time. As a lifelong Astros fan, that would be a great moment.
Blyleven was a compiller, he averaged 14-12 for his career and was never feared as a great pitcher in his career!
How do I “dislike” this comment?
For ALL of the reasons stated previously, this argument couldn’t be more irrelevant .
Camillo Pasquall had a better curve and he was on the same team!
Camilo Pascual and Bert Blyleven both played for the Twins but were never on the same team. Blyleven came up in 1970 and Pascual was traded to Washington after the ’66 season. According to Harmon Killebrew, Al Kaline, Brooks Robinson, and Carl Yastrzemski who faced both have said that Pascual’s curve ball was great but Blyleven’s was even better. Granted, those are subjective opinions but that’s good enough for me.
Jim Kaat’s stats are similar and he had 10 gold gloves!
Were is my LOVE for Edgar Martinez.. THE BEST DH EVER!!!! Guys stats at the plate make him one of the best to pick up a stick and take a swing. Also given his injuries an dlate start in the bigs.. He should have even better numbers than he did…. Career .312 AVG 2247 Hits 514 Dbls 933OPS 2 AL Battings Titles Led AL in OBP 3 times. If he does not get in JUST because he mostly was a DH is entire career will be horrid…
Edgar is the best DH ever but for a DH to make the hall he is going to have to have killer stats, since they only play half of the game.
Ryan, Blyleven, and Schilling were strikeout pitchers that never really did that well in wins,and overall pitching stats other than K’s. Ryan had the no hitters, Schilling was great in post season, Blyleven was never considered the best pitcher any year.