We've already caught up on the Yankees, but it's now time to check in on a few of the Bronx Bombers' AL East rivals. Here's the latest:
- Joe Beimel is deciding between three teams, according to MLB.com's Evan Drellich. The Red Sox, Orioles and one National League club are the finalists for the lefty's services, agent Joe Sroba says.
- Could Michael Young be a fit in Toronto? Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star thinks so. Nobody asked me, but I don't see the Blue Jays as a possible destination for Young, who happens to be a close friend of Vernon Wells'.
- An MLB executive tells ESPN.com's Buster Olney the Blue Jays “have a chance to be a real power for years to come,” and believes that Alex Anthopoulos & Co. will do a lot with their upcoming draft picks and newfound payroll flexibility.
- A lot of rival executives tell Olney that they consider the Red Sox the best team in baseball on paper, but wonder how much Jason Varitek and Jarrod Saltalamacchia will produce behind the plate.
- Some people around the league question whether Rays prospect Desmond Jennings will reach the potential he showed a couple seasons ago.
Teams have started hearing the footsteps of the Jays behind them, and before long they will be on par with the other big boys in the East, and as those steps turn into leaps they will pass some of them, and be competing for the division crown year after year the way the Sox have. I think the Yankees will begin to lose ground in the next couple of years, as their contract length and age catch up to them.
It’s been the same story for years, now. Remember that while Riccardi made several errors, he fielded some very strong pitching staffs, finding strong pitchers seemingly out of nowhere. The Jays still had no hope of contention. In 2008 they were arguably the fourth-best team in baseball, and they still had no hope. So let’s not pretend like the Jays were some horribly mismanaged team and now Anthopulous will save them. They had some very, very good years under Riccardi.
Red Sox and Yankees contain impact players.
Jays, during the JPR days lack 2 important things… several impact players and a deep farm system..
When Wells went down with injury, there was no impact player ready to step in.
When the back end of our rotation was suspect, there were no young kids ready to step in..
While JPR didn’t mismanage the team that badly, he didn’t manage the team to win in the AL east.
AA now is going for high ceiling players, players that Yankees and Red Sox already contain. You can’t expect to win the best division in baseball with the Lyle Overbay’s of the world.
No where did I suggest that they did not have any good teams, nor horribly mismanaged. AA is developing a philosophy that will produce “better” teams for a more sustainable period of time with better chances of actually finishing 1 or 2 in the division, as opposed to 3rd or 4th, because in the AL East “good” teams really only finish 3rd. I look at the Riccardi years as trying to throw band-aid solutions over weaknesses with too much money and desperate hopes that players will play at expected levels or above-still had competitive teams, but not enough to win the toughest division in baseball
The Jays could win if they can successfully emulate the way the Rays have become a great team. Judging by the increase in the quality of their farm system, I don’t see why it couldn’t happen.
The rays are the model know, excellent system and approach. However it helps when you stink for a long period of time and maintain top draft picks. There certainly is a relationship to both the rankings of KC’s and TB farm system and where they have finished.
TB is the model if you can’t spend money.
Yes, but like Steelslayer said, it helps if you stink for a long time to stock the farm system with high draft choices.
No. If you stink you have no choice but to draft picks. It’s not like if you stink you have other choices. Further, if you are a lot of picks, you most likely are a bad team. Rays can’t be good other than drafting a lot, that’s why they suck most of the time.
i think your point is somewhat lost here. The truth is sometimes when you stink you do have other choices, like a deep pocket owner-that is not to say it is the answer (see the Mets). “Further, if you are a lot of picks, you most likely are a bad team.” Thats what i think we’re saying, because the Rays did stink for quite a while which gave them high picks. Now they are able to turn those quality picks into good controllable players that they can keep, or trade away or let them walk to a potential Type A ranking, which consequently will turn into two more good picks or other quality players through trades. If done correctly, which they seem to be doing it is almost self-perpetuating
Well said. I think the best current example of “stink for a while to stock the farm” would be the Nationals.
Edit: I forgot how good the Royals farm appears to be. They seem to be doing a great job of emulating the Tampa system.
Okay, but TB was bad because they wanted to be bad to get those picks. They didn’t just ‘happen’ to be bad and then got picks. Their formula was to lose for a decade straight, gather picks, and inevitably create a good team. Their formula is to never spend money and only create a team through the draft-this is not THE formula for teams like you said originally. It is more a combination of drafting and spending that is the common formula.
Don’t mention that around a Pirates fan.
Halladay, Burnett, Lilly for one year. I wouldn’t say riccardi fielded very strong pitching staffs though, I feel like that starting pitching was his weakness. The year the Jays finished second in the east it was from contributions from Marcum and Mcgowan, remember tomo ohka and John Thompson, Josh towers, Pete walker. The Jays never had a solid five under Riccardi. He did have more success finding bullpen gems (downs)
They had good teams, but they underperformed to a huge extent.
The Jays just don’t have a winning mentality, how many guys on the team have ever been in a postseason game? Just Molina, I guess when you loses for so many years you start accepting it.
Right, I guess the Jays should trade for Burnett and ship off Romero due to post season experience.
Could you not make the same arguement for the vast majority of teams?
so if we have 40 Molinas on this team, we’ll have a winning mentality and will win the WS?
great logic there
That is one of the more senseless comments I’ve read on this site. First, according to your reasoning, MOST teams in the MLB should never make the playoffs either because most players on most teams have never made the playoffs either. Second, the Jays have not been losing year and year out as you make them out to be. They have had winning season 4/5 years. Finally, why would you think that players do not want to win just because they have never been to the playoffs? Unvelievable.
Just like the 08 rays right?
Tell that to the World Series Champion Giants….that mentality you have is whats wrong with the entire north american system in general…someone tries to get a job “ohh what experience do you have?” experience means nothing…Cliff lee pitched and won his games in the world series against the yankees when he had no experience…..so why did he lose his games to Lincecum this year when he was the “Experienced one”?
as much as I would LOVE to agree with that statement….you can never EVER right off the yankees as much as I hate to admit…but they have an available payroll that can turn any loser team/situation into a winner in the matter of 1 year…. 🙁
I don’t think the Jays will touch Young unless the Rangers are willing to eat up alot of his salary.
And only if we have to give up some of our relief corps. Young’s long-term value is not worth that of our prospects.
I don’t even know where Young would fit.
AA would trade for him and get the Rangers to eat half of his contract
…..
He would then flip Young for prospects and get his new team to pick up his entire contract.
Griffin suggests third base while JBau goes to right.
This is a retread of a story penned a few weeks ago on the basis that Wells was a friend on Young. Ridiculous then it makes even less sense now with Wells gone. Griffin (who should be salary dumped) didnt even consider a cost contribution from Texas. Young would arguably be a worse 3B fielder/hitter than Encarnacion at xx the cost and they are not even planning to use E5 at that corner
People calling him JBau is still making me cringe haha ARod is fine and Man-Ram works too, I DO like Joe Bats or Jose Bats…i can’t remember which one it was but i liked it nonetheless
Griffin Doesn’t know his bass from a hole in the ground he should retire rather then invent stories on a slow news day in January.
As a Sox fan, I will be satisfied by the Saltitek tandem if they can get on base at a .320 clip (We’ll see, Varitek seems to have forgotten what a base on balls is and Salty’s been all over the place in terms of OBP) or better combined and control the running game better than Martinez did (Not a tall order, really). While it’d be nice to have offense out of the ninth spot, the overall lineup is menacing enough it’s not a complete necessity.
Well I figure the Sox defense at catcher simply improves by not having to see Crawford on the basepaths against us.
Right. If the biggest question mark somebody can find about your roster is the catching, you’re going to be just fine. You’d hardly be the only team in MLB to have weak offense behind the plate.
We can’t all have Joe Mauer. *Sigh*
Seriously, if Salty can keep Vlad from running wild on us (If he ever signs with someone), I’ll be happy.
Exactly. Having a below average offensive catcher is by no means a competitive disadvantage.
If Tek and Salty can put together a .250/.320/.380 clip, they can be right around league average.
It’s not like they’re trying to go out there with Kotchman at first base.
Are you joking with that one? Catching is the most vital part of the game. If by referring to “good” catcher you mean offense then you really don’t know the game.
With 9 men on the field, I don’t think you can make an argument any particular position is the “most vital”. If that means I don’t know the game, so be it.
I’ve seen plenty of world series teams without great catchers.
maybe on the defensive side of the inning it is up there in importance as far as positional players go, but having a good hitting catcher is more of a luxury than a necessity imo.
Are you serous? Because you seem serious but that is such an outlandish statement I have a hard time believe that you are, in fact, serious.
My thoughts exactly.
I agree. We shouldn’t be worried about Tek or Salty. Salty needs to stay healthy so Tek doesn’t have to take on a full time role, but having Tek as a mentor is everything Salty needs. Teams win without strong numbers offensively from the catching position.
Red Sox should have traded for Napoli before the Jays/Rangers got to him.
No, no, a thousand times no. As I’ve said before, Napoli is Victor Martinez with worse defense and no on base ability. He isn’t a bad player, but he’s exceedingly overrated and should not be considered an answer at catcher for anyone. The only way I would have traded for him would be if the Angels would take Papelbon and his salary and include an MLB ready back-of-the-rotation pitching prospect who would be capable of stepping into a bullpen role with Napoli.
despite what you think of Napoli.. he is infinitely better than any options the Red Sox have behind the plate for 2011..
He may not be a long term piece.. but no one said he needed to be
Napoli has a .346 career OB, so he does have some OB skills despite your opinion.
And why is he overrated? He’s a catcher that gets on-base, has great pop, and isn’t a particularly good defender. Don’t we all know that?
Your Papelbon offer makes some sense, so maybe that could have been an interesting swap.
there was no way the Angels were trading Napoli to Boston anyway. They aren’t stupid, they know that their likely playoff matchups are against the Sox and/or NYY.
The Angels likely playoff match up is Weaver vs Price in Scioscia’s basement playing XBox.
But Napoli ended up being traded to a Division Rival…
Likely playoff opponent of the Angels? Is that a joke?
he rsdynast – 1. dont be a richard. 2. At the trade deadline last year, if you read the Boston Globe, you would have read the story about how the Sox won’t get Napoli because the Angels don’t want to send him to a power in the AL where he can beat them. (worked out that way as Toronto turned around and sent him back to the AL W)
Now, I never said the Angels were a good team. Read what I said again, and when you can reply like an adult I’m all ears.
Still better than anyone the Red Sox have.
Young would be certainly a upgrade over EE, but if I’m a Jays fan I would hate any deal where the team would have to eat alot of his contract.
over EE? are you assuming young would play 1b or dh?
I don’t see how Young is an upgrade over EE at this point. at any position
how is Young not an upgrade over Encarnacion? do you mean statistically or are you factoring in salaries? forgetting Salaries, Young is better than Encarnacion. the last 2 years with the Jays Encarnacion has OBP or .305 in 2010 and .306 in 2009. Encarnacion has also had AVG of .244 in 2010, and .240 in 2009. Young might not have the same power potential, but he is a better hitter and better at getting on base. I also bet he is better defensively at 3B than Encarnacion is.
The salary has to be taken in to consideration..
I rather get an OPS of .780 for EE’s 2 million, than the same OPS for 16 million from young…EE also has more power potential.
The defense at this point, especially on turf is a toss up
Add to the fact that EE can be let go after this year, while Young is still owed another $32 million..
Its not even close..
Ortiz is their DH
Why no one else was stealing bases against the Sox?
Crawford always seemed to do the most damage.
As SWP notes, he did a lot of damage. Crawford alone stole eight bases against the Sox last year (2% of all bases stolen against them), he was not caught stealing a single time. The Yankees are the only team that he stole more bases on.
Now, one might want to cite the fact they’re in the same division and yes, that has something to do with it BUT:
Crawford only stole two bases against the Blue Jays, getting caught three times and he didn’t swipe a single bag against the Orioles, getting caught once.
4 words to explain….
Molina
Buck
Wieters
Molina (again, he through out 4 base stealer’s in 1 game vs TB, crawford twice)
Yeah…I really wanted Buck. Not at the price he got, but I really would’ve liked to snag him on short years.
Molina throws ropes you can hang your laundry on.
Wonder if Farrell will bring the “Don’t worry about the runners” pitching approach to Toronto.
Molina can throw Chuck Norris
BAM
He had like 35 straight stolen bases against the Red Sox. The last time he was caught was against Tim Wakefield in like ’07 or ’05.
how in the world do you get caught stealing on Tim Wakefield? What was he doing crawling to the next base?
haha I was wondering the same thing. Out of all the pitchers, he gets caught against Wake?!
He was actually picked off by Wake at first if I remember right. The last time he was thrown out by a Red Sox catcher was by Varitek back in ’02 or ’03.
I think you over estimate the power of just having a formidable farm system with no cash flow to back that up and it is not meant ans any dis respect at all. Boston (Epstein Era) and even the Yankees last 2-3 years have finally caught onto that system of how important it is to maintain a top farm system and how important it is to compliment ‘buying” pieces to keep a current team in “top” shape, but one thing the Yankees still have not seemingly learned is how important it is to let older pieces leave when there time is nearing it’s end and they need to either go, or that huge amount of money they just made on a previous large contract does not need to be rolled over into another large multi year contract for approximately the same amount of dollars again, with those same players even older.
Just having a strong farm system (Toronto is a slightly improved version of Tampa bay in that regard) will not let these types of clubs continually keep/maintain multiple players of this caliber once they finally draft them, where the 2 powerhouse teams in the AL East have the ability and resources to do that.
Are you assuming the jays dont have the budget to resign there stars? its been said many times that rogers will go up to 150 mill if it makes sense… this isnt like tampa bay at all.
Rogers are one of the richest owners in all of baseball. They are a multi billion dollar company…the Jays will be fine!
THE richest owners***
Richest owner in all of baseball is not Rogers.
well the richest company that owns an MLB team is Rogers Communications.
If you’re referring to a single owner, i suppose you’re right
Seattle Mariners are owned by Nintendo last I knew.
Warren Buffet is the richest owner in all of baseball tho I believe.
oh shat you’re right.
totally forgot Nintendo. Warren Buffet’s an mlb owner?
Buffett is part owner of the Omaha minor league team I believe. I think it is a Royals affiliate.
Jays for the most part, with a few exceptions, have never been a farm team to the rest of the league
For better, or for worse Jays usually keep their impact players and sign them to long contracts..
Not to mention that, while the Yanks and Sox do have pretty good systems, they are far less likely to actually keep their good prospects as opposed to the Jays or Rays… Kelly, Jackson, etc alike are often shopped before they ever get to the bigs
Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Bard, Papelbon, Lester, Buchholz. The Red Sox have really only traded away one impact player in the last few years and that is Hanley and they got Beckett and Lowell back in that trade. So the Sox are more likely or at least as likely to keep their good prospects such as the Rays and Blue Jays.
Not including the last trade for A-Gone as we don’t know how they will fare in the majors yet.
The problem is “buying” complimentary pieces and maintaining a top farm system are at odds with one another.
If you buy complimentary pieces, you lose top draft picks. Hence it’s much more difficult to have a top-notch farm.
The system is designed that way, intentionally. The whole concept of Type-A and Type-B is so Tampa Bay can have a way to compete with Boston. Because if it’s possible to both buy talent and have an A+ farm, small markets will never have a prayer.
That said, Theo has done a phenomenal job gaming the system. Getting picks for guys like Damon and Pedro, who were at the tail end of their marquee years, and netting picks in exchange, is a very solid approach.
you are forgetting when the Jays had Troy Glaus, Lyle Overbay, Aaron Hill, Bengie Molina, Vernon Wells, Alex Rios, Frank Thomas, Doc, Burnett, Ted Lilly and BJ Ryan under contract in the same season!
I’m honestly genuinely impressed with the fact the Sox are still considered top half of the league for farm system, despite trading two of our top five prospects for Gonzalez. With the five picks we have next year by the end of the second round (Six if Lopez signs a major league deal) and the depth of that draft (Plus with a little help from the fact the Yankees, who’re currently in the top ten, will likely either trade or call up their top prospect by the end of the year), I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Sox crack the top ten again next year.
it’s not just the 1st and 2nd round picks tho.. it’s getting those 8th round (just picking that one) on down and throwing huge bonuses to sign them. teams like Boston “games” the system every year and spends 9-10M every year on the draft and the bulk of that money does not even go on the 1st round pick (s) they get. They will go for the signability guys each and every year many teams thing that they can not get to sign on the dotted line, then target specificially 3-5 of them.
BTW: I had no intention above of saying the Jays were “small market” just not salary powerhouses in the arena of Boston and the Yankees and i really doubt they will become that. look how long they worked to get out from under Wells contract for instance, even Halladays and he was a top pitcher in the game?
Rogers is the richest owner in all of baseball. Full stop.
The Jays have a SCARY amount of money available if it would be in any way advisable to spend it.
Fail… They didnt try to get out from under Halladay’s contract. They actually attempted to re-sign him and he basically rejected it. It was his choice to leave thus the Jays maximized on the asset getting 3 good-excellent prospects (Drabek, D’arnaud. and indirectly Gose). Wells was a salary dump, but man was that a damn good one!!!
why dont toronto media let thier teams rebuid properly, let the owners pocket the savings from wells trade and spend them 2 years down the road or on the draft or international signing instead of getting young.
I agree, Young is definitely not a target for the Jays. Makes absolutely no sense. Toronto could easily be the frontrunners for Fielder at this point, and maybe even Pujols if he hits the market. Why waste money on Young after you just freed your franchise from its biggest mistake?
Anything Richard Griffin says needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
its true… dingbats like Griffin who write stories like this are exactly the problem with Toronto..
For some reason the media can’t wrap their heads around a rebuild, yet they are the first ones to complain when the teams fail to make the playoffs.
what does it matter that Michael Young is close friends with Wells – hes not there anymore???
If anything it leads to Young joining the Angels somehow. Which would be great for the other AL West teams.
You aren’t aware of Young’s “best friends” clause in his contract?
hahaha
Dear AA, please complete your perfect offseason by trading for Young then flipping him to the Angels for Peter Bourjos (With LAAA naturally picking up his entire salary).
How about Michael Young to the Cubs for Alfonso Soriano, a mid range minor leaguer and cash considerations (Cubs pay 10 mill of Soriano’s last year).
The Cubs can put Young at 3rd after Aram leaves and use him at 2nd base this year.
Soriano can be the right handed D.H. Texas is looking for. I think Soriano’s production would go up if he could forget left field and just hit.
Actually, his numbers would go way up if he would stop swinging at sliders in the dirt and a foot and a half outside.
statistically I think Young would be a great fit with the Jays, he could play 3B and bat 3rd. he can still hit. he is only 34 years old, so not that old.
the money is a lot, so I would not want to give up much for him, and certainly Texas would have to eat some salary.
I imagine right now Davis is starting in LF and batting leadoff. unless the Jays bring in another OF like Podsednik.
Snider could be in RF, and Bautista at DH. you could use Bautista in other positions like RF/3B/1B, as well as Encarnacion seeing time at multiple positions like 1B/DH.
would Texas want back RP? seeing they just traded Fransisco to the Jays. Frasor?
I thought Davis was playing CF?
crap I meant CF. Rivera will be in LF.
who plays center?? lol
Davis will be starting in Cf, Snider Lf, Bautista rf, encarnacion will be starting at 3rd and Rivera will be starting DH if the season were to start right now. Unless of course Lawrie or Hecheveria impress in Spring training.
Encarnacion is not going to play 3B.
he’ll play a few games at 3B for sure
is this your opinion? it would be better defense with Rivera(LF), Davis(CF), Snider(RF), Bautista(3B), Encarnacion(DH).
It would be better defense to have Bautista in rf Encarnacion as dh and a 3b that could field unless they find a 3 bagger that can field Encarnacion will be playing 3rd.
there’s no way that Encarnacion should be playing 3B. from everything I’ve read the Jays are not planning on using Encarnacion at 3B.
There’s no way Bautista should be anywhere other then rf with his gun. If the Jays don’t find another 3rd basemen regardless of what anyone is saying right now encarnacion will be the opening day 3rd basemen. Michael Young will not be a Blue Jay either. It’s a rebuilding year time to see what the kids can do not pick up 34 year old 16 million a year players with 3 years left on there contract.
It would be better defense to have John MacDonald play 3rd but his 220 batting average would get in the way.
If you read Richard Griffin’s article its complete fluff.. His whole basis for Young is the fact that Vernon Said ‘Ironically’ when asked when he found out he was traded (he was with Young at the time)
It would make zero sense to take back a bad contract when you just pulled a miracle to get rid of one.. Michael young isn’t a good fielding 3B anymore… and lastly if you read any of other Griffin’s work, you would know he’s a complete tool box.
A complete tool box sounds pretty useful, actually. Better than an incomplete one.
I am seriously wondering about Griffin’s mental health. Just a couple of months ago he was saying that Michael Young was not the answer for the Jays. Now he is jumping on the bandwagon because they have some payroll flexibility. I also find it humorous that all of the Toronto media talking heads keep throwing out fliers about to lock up JBaus, Toronto needs to pick up a 3rd baseman to appease him. AA HAS SAID REPEATEDLY THAT JBAUS IS PROBABLY THE 3RD BASEMAN THIS YEAR. Lets hold off locking up a one year wonder right now to appease the fans. As the JP years showed, trying to appease the fans is a losing proposition. Throw the money at draft picks and international signings to use as currency for future trades.
I liked 10X
I agree Zero sense.
Yep. Griffin could not be more off. Follows his pipe-dream articles about Greinke and the like. Like, how does Young fit into AA’s philosophy for this year and going forward? It doesn’t.
I can’t help but notice the team options AA has placed in contracts for Hill, Lind, Romero, Encarnacion, and Davis. They seem to match up nicely when you project prospects.
Encarnarcion 2012 = David Cooper or Eric Thames
Rajai Davis 2013 = Anthony Gose
Aaron Hill 2012/2013/2014 = Brett Lawrie
Adam Lind 2014/2015/2016 = Michael McDade/Moises Sierre/plus others
Ricky Romero 2016 = A top level High School pitcher from this year’s draft
I doubt we ever see an A.J. Burnett (player option) or Vernon Wells and Alex Rios (big dollars with no team options) contract done by AA. He will pay out big bucks to players. But, it will be negotiated in their pre-arb year and it will be long term with big salary matched by team options in the player’s free agent eligible years.
David Cooper? It’s getting to the point where it might be time to give up on him.
I think that point was last year lol
Same age as Eric Thames. Why don’t you want to wait and see what he does in AAA at age 24? Had good 2nd half. Was 8th HRs in AA.
Actually I wouldn’t be shocked to see the Jays make a play for Fielder.
I wouldn’t be shocked either. Especially if there is a chance to “buy low” like he did with Yunel Escobar.
Fielder and “buy low”? Does not compute
People would have said the same thing about Yunel Escobar one year ago.
Yunel Escobar wasn’t a pending FA with Scott Boras as his agent.
One year ago he was entering spring training as the team’s MVP from the previous season. Plus 20th in NL MVP voting. At the time, very unlikely candidate for “selling low”.
he does fit in well to that whole athleticism philosophy AA has been preaching..
My prediction??
Adam Lind becomes a pretty decent defensive 1B and his bat rebounds.. taking the Jays off the list of teams who need a 1B.
Exactly my thoughts.
Now if Pujols became available… it would be a different story.
Agree–stay away from him and that price tag
why is everybody so preoccupied with tek and saltys offensive production? theyre there to stop the ball from going to the back stop, throwing out the (very) occasional base stealer and throw the ball back to the pitcher, ok, salty may have problems with that last one…
The issue is that his career OB is inflated by his part time player numbers. His numbers have gradually dropped the more playing time he’s gotten. In the last three years, his OPS has gone from .960 to .842 to .784, each year with more plate appearances, and that’s with him never having topped 84 starts at catcher in a season. If he can’t keep his OPS up above .800 starting more games at first base than catcher, I can’t imagine him performing well as the starting catcher going forward.
He’s not a bad player, but I wouldn’t want to give up anything of value for him. Taking a flyer on him if he had been non-tendered? Sure. But I wouldn’t have traded anything for him.
Better than anything we’ve got, yes, but not worth trading anything of value for. Fine for you guys because you managed to shed Wells, but the Sox don’t have an obvious salary dump outside of Papelbon.
Since they just dealt Napoli to Texas, I would have to think the Jays would have made a run for Young at that same time.
I’m sick of this AA worship.
Right now all he’s done is dumped salary. Congratulations. Most anybody can slash payroll. Yes, he’s got some attractive young prospects, but so does Dayton Moore, and I don’t see people singing his praises.
AA needs to prove he has a knack for getting prospects who blossom into impact players. He needs to prove he has the ability to retain them for at least 4-6 years, if not longer. And he needs to prove he can bring enough of them up together in the same window of time (like the Rays did).
Otherwise, he’s looking alot more like a Kansas City or Pittsburgh than a Tampa Bay. And frankly, everyone knows AA’s name right now, but who knows the Rays GM?
rays gm is andrew friedman, most if not all people on mlbtr
and dayton moore has done a good job collecting prospects but done a piss poor job with the major league team, the grienkie trade was so so, guillen, meche and the list goes on.
Yet, Friedman’s name is mentioned alongside the word “great” about 10% as much as AA…
And that’s my point: Moore has done a good job with prospects but poor with the major league team. AA has done a good job with young talent but hasn’t yet proven anything with the major league team. Yet people talk about him like he has…
morrow, escobar, lewis on the cheap, pretty sure these are all major league trade/players, the team was supposed to be one of the worst, but finished with 85 wins.
parlaying pickups in draft picks, buck, gregg, olivio
To be fair, Friedman gets a ton of praise around here (and everywhere, really). It’s just that AA has been in the news more recently, so you’re going to hear his name more.
Well AA dumped Vernon Wells whose salary was the most “undumpable” contract in all of baseball, thats impressive. While dumping the salary he also got Mike Napoli which in that situation was a great return. He traded Marcum for Lawrie. Lawrie was like top 20 on that top prospect list that came out a few days ago. Marcum was nothing more than a #3 starter. I think hes done so many good things so far that there is lots of “hype” around him and without a doubt he is earning his paycheck. The other test will be to see if the Jays can possibly compete in the AL East. They had a pretty good year last year.
They both take a back seat to the Rays.
Yep…that is the biggest knock against AA. Hasn’t been able to keep anyone for five years during his one year as GM.
Point being: He hasn’t yet proven he’s the Second-Coming. To date, he’s done what anybody could do – disassemble a major league roster for prospects. Slash payroll.
If he’s fielding a competitive roster in 5 years, then yes, he’ll deserve to be in an elite class of GM. However, for all we know, Toronto in 5 years could look alot like Toronto right now. In perennially “rebuild” mode – ala KC & Pitt.
Point being: he is making the right moves and most unlikely to get “trapped” into a bad contract. Doing well enough for many people to take notice.
Nothing wrong with being optimistic over good moves. I have no problem with someone wanting to reserve judgement. However, resentment over accolades is a little puzzling.
I’m all about accolades. I wish my GM made some moves more like AA lately. AA is doing a lot right.
But I’m reading A LOT of media passing judgment of greatness. I’m cool with “AA is doing a lot right”. But “AA is amazing omfg!!1!” is bordering on overblown.
Put it this way. AA had a hot rookie year. But I’m not casting a vote for him for the HOF just yet. The biggest challenge is still ahead for him – converting young talent into a playoff appearance.
I have to agree, considering Jack Z. was getting the same kind of praise a year ago and is barely clinging to a job now in many peoples’ eyes.
I respect what AA has done so far, but yeah, he’s way too new to be considered a great GM. He’s done great at shedding salary, but until he proves he’s capable of assembling an MLB roster, all he’s proven is that he can get costs down and may or may not have incriminating evidence against the Angels front office.
The Z hype comparison is spot on.
Z went the opposite way of AA, he was trading peices to win NOW , the comparison is horrible, seattles offence was the problem and he traded for half a year of cliff lee and signed a light bat in figgins to play third on a team that lacks a big bat, not to mention AA stole Morrow away for a reliever…one of Z’s worst moves… he was hyped mainly for the “sexy” names he recieved.
I agree with that
well i dunno jack Z’s whole history, he seemed to be pushing the right buttons for a while, but i dont think he was able to do anything close to what AA has done so far or there would have been far more hype.
ultimately AA will be judged on whether he wins, like all GM’s. he has made some difficult decisions in his short time as GM (marcum for lawrie, wallace for gose, even the halladay deal) which are not clear cut wins for the jays, but the more difficult decisions are yet to come (such as: does prince fielder deserve the 7th year at $25mill?? or some other critical, make-or-break-the-franchise decision he has to make when the time comes for the jays to make a push).
that said it is very difficult to argue with the jays current position (top notch farm system, very large scouting/player development staff, added minor league affiliates, lack of long term financial restraints, several new potential core players, a seemingly talented new coaching staff, an increasingly enthusiastic fanbase, etc.) compared to where they were a year and a half ago (clubhouse revolt, bottomfeeding farm system, a seriously disconnected fan base, underperforming team, etc.)
Alex has given the jays some credibility and some hope, which they have lacked for so long as a franchise. it is little wonder that when someone projects the jays as serious contender in the near future, that baseball ppl dont laugh even though they will always have to battle the yankees and red sox.
AA as a hall of fame GM is a stupid and irrelevant discussion at this point, but DAMN its nice to have someone in charge of the team who knows what he is doing!
True…most of his key acquisitions will be in AA and AAA this season. So, we are at least two years away from judging the actual result.
In the interim, he is doing a good job of managing the major league assets to keep them under team control and not getting painted into a corner with a bad contract and getting a good flow of high ceiling prospects from the draft.
What more can you ask from a GM at this stage?
Nothing. The guy’s done everything right so far. I just want to see how he handles the later stages of the rebuild. That’s where slightly above average GM’s go to die.
“The guy’s done everything right so far”…..so why are we excited and optimistic? Shame on us!!
Maybe cuz he’s so young, done a lot of transactions in his short time as GM, he put the BJs in the news repetedly (for the right reasons), completely rebuilt the farm system from nothing, completely change the teams philosophy, properly dealt with a questionable bench boss (Cito), revamped the entire pitching and hired farrelel that could make our new pitching staff look even more impressive (hopefully he makes better game decisions than Cito when it comes to the pitchers), dealt fairly with players contracts, dumped an undumpable contract and recieved 2 good players without losing much money, fleeced a veteran GM with the morrow trade, loaded the farm system with drafts (8 of them for this year!, unless i’m mistaken), he has resurrected a team lost in a city full of losers (Maple leafs, raptors, MLS) …. all under what? 2 years???!!! I’d say thats impressive and he’s not even done yet! The future looks bright for the Jays and thats why he has gotten so much attention. Sounds like somebody is jealous of our GM…
I see your point. All Jays fans admire the Rays success.
But if he can accomplish the rebuild while remaining competitive, UNLIKE KC and Pitt and yes, the Rays themselves, then he will have OUT-RAYED the Rays.
LMAO you’re acting like he has had all the time in the world, and hasn’t done anything. He’s been GM for 18 months and has done some incredible things. And don’t say anyone could have done what AA just did with the VW contract.
Yet all the media he’s getting would make you believe he’s the best GM in baseball. When the reality is he’s been there less than two years. Yes, he robbed LA. A signature move. I’m still not ready to crown the guy.
He also robbed Seattle and Atlanta. Got a free pick from Olivo thing. Got 2 picks from Buck and Gregg signing. Unloaded Wells and only giving away 5 million (I believe that was his bonus) which in itself is a great accomplishment. Took a bottom 5 farm to top 5 in a year. Had a great draft (at the moment… we won’t actually know how it was for another 5-10 years). Locked up Lind and Romero to cheap friendly contracts.
He’s done better than what most rookie GM’s would do at this point and over the past year, he has been one of the better GM’s. Just because he hasn’t won a championship or anything doesn’t make him a bad GM. If we go by your logic, Cashman is a great GM because he gets Yankees to the playoffs and they have won championships. He’s done a fantastic job SO FAR and now the next step is getting the team into the playoffs and perhaps a championship someday but that will take some time. Right now, he has done an excellent job.
That’s fair. SO FAR he has done a great job. But its only half the battle.
If he’s been there for only two years and already has “a signature move”, I think he’s doing alright.
Maybe cuz he’s so young, done a lot of transactions in his short time as GM, he put the BJs in the news repetedly (for the right reasons), completely rebuilt the farm system from nothing, completely change the teams philosophy, properly dealt with a questionable bench boss (Cito), revamped the entire pitching and hired farrelel that could make our new pitching staff look even more impressive (hopefully he makes better game decisions than Cito when it comes to the pitchers), dealt fairly with players contracts, dumped an undumpable contract and recieved 2 good players without losing much money, fleeced a veteran GM with the morrow trade, loaded the farm system with drafts (8 of them for this year!, unless i’m mistaken), he has resurrected a team lost in a city full of losers (Maple leafs, raptors, MLS) …. all under what? 2 years???!!! I’d say thats impressive and he’s not even done yet! The future looks bright for the Jays and thats why he has gotten so much attention. Sounds like somebody is jealous of our GM…
Does, he is the best GM in baseball for the past 18 months sound better?
Doing that much in that amount of time says A LOT.
Again. 9k through 4IP. Long ways from a perfect game. The hardest part is still in front of him.
He’s done a great job starting a rebuild. I choose to withhold judgment until we see if he can finish the job.
Friedman..
And Tampa Bay only gets praises for being the best run organization around, guess you missed that..
and anyone can slash payroll? What a joke of a comment, he traded a player who 1 week ago admitted he wasn’t worth the contract, and got 2 decent pieces back while dumping the 3rd highest paid player in the MLB..
yah anyone can do that right??
Then when you factor he turned chavez and league in to Morrow
Turned A.Gonzalez and two B prospects in to Escobar and a B prospect
Brought the farm system to bottom 5 in the league to 4th.
somebodies a hater.
Im sick of Tampa Bay for getting praises for being the best run organization. After years of being beyond horrible during which all they did was collect draft picks, they are good for a few seasons. This year I think they battle the orioles for third place.
They’ve won two of the last three seasons. They’ve still got a strong No. 2 system, just behind KC. And they’ve got like 12 draft picks in the first few rounds.
I wouldn’t count on the Tampa boys becoming suddenly stupid.
its Andrew Friedman and he’s Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations…they don’t have a gm.
In AA we trust.
Young, Napoli and 20MM for Francisco seems fair.
Toronto is a huge market with gigantic revenue potential. No reason they aren’t spending huge on payroll if they want to win. They give their best pitcher who is cheap and young to the Brewers for nothing. Doesn’t make any sense if you ask me.
I wonder if the Rangers didn’t acquire Napoli with the intent on unloading him to Boston for a pitcher like DiceK? Boston will suck again this year- they obliverated their formula on winning and instead decided to play the overpay free agent game.
marcum filed for 5 million in arb, has only 2 years left, some history of arm trouble. lawrie is a top 20 prospect. And AA is a fan of power pitchers, marcum didnt fit the bill, we knew he was gonna get traded, was a matter of when/where. It was a bold move that might not pay off but if all goes right a bunch of jays prospects will be blooming at the same time which was the rays formula.
“Boston will suck again this year” ???
Brett Lawrie = “nothing” ???
Head scratchers!!
Marcum was not the jays best pitcher.
Could be an interesting move for the Jays. I would trade for him if the asking price wasnt high and if the Rangers pay at least 15M of his salary over the next three years. Making his annual salary 10M. I would have him start at third, then move him to Anaheim to join his best friend Wells. Anaheim would get their 3B and the Jays could get a good young player or two. I would target Wood and some lower tier prospects. Wood needs a change of scenary.
Jack Z had a signature move within months of taking over when he got Cliff Lee for what many considered to be peanuts. When’s the last time you heard someone say something positive about him?
Young for Romero straight up. Everybody walks away happy. Cmon…
As for Salty, good luck Red Sox…this is a guy who forgot how to throw the ball to 2nd base to throw out runners. Kind of necessary for a catcher…
lol great trade for both sides indeed…
Not likely. Especially when you contrast it with AA’s past moves.
I’m sure Rangers would be running happily with that one.
Wouldn’t happen. Ever.
hilarious!!! both salty in sox uni and thinking young for romero.
And who on the Texas roster is better again? Maybe if you could morph Teagardens defense with Napolis bat you’d have a point but they are both one dimensional!
Is better than Salty? Torrealba is. Napoli, is one dimensional, but is better. Hell, Matty Mae Treanor kept Salty off the field last year. Salty has potential, but he had several chances to be the TX catcher for 10 years and blew it, and they tried so hard to get his mind off the fact he couldn’t throw the ball back to the pitcher, which affected every other part of his game. Hopefully a change of scenery will do it cause he tried, but to answer your question, everybody on the TX roster is/was better than Salty.
Pitchers’ mound. He never had an issue throwing to second. He had a case of the Yips, which was allegedly resolved early last season (And accounting for the fact I saw him throw the ball back to the mound a few times on TV, I have to assume he’s capable of it). There’s a lot of questions about Salty, but we’ll see how it goes.
I’m honestly pretty inclined to believe there might have been issues in his development. I mean, the Rangers had, what, three can’t miss prospects at the catcher position not two offseason ago? Now two have been basically shipped out for nothing and I don’t even know what happened to Ramirez. We’ll see what a change of scenery does for Salty.
Both Varitek and Salty are better than a pitcher at hitting. Hit them 9th and forget about it. When you look at the rest of their lineups there are no weaknesses.
As a Jays fan I hope they don’t deal for Young. It’s counter productive to add 16 million a year for 3 years when you just freed yourself of a big contract. It would also block Lawrie and Hecheveria from a roster spot. I think fans in Toronto are prepared for step back this year to have a winner we can sustain for years to come.
I don’t want any part of Michael Young and his declining defense, alright bat and huge contract.
“A lot of rival executives tell Olney that they consider the Red Sox the best team in baseball on paper, but wonder how much Jason Varitek and Jarrod Saltalamacchia will produce behind the plate.”
Wow! Another blockbuster breaking insight from Olney. Varitek and Salty could be a risk? Who knew!
Didn’t Griffin write about Young about a month ago???
While Young was good when he was young, the Jays really don’t have a need for him what so ever.
Bautista has been tagged for 3rd.
Looking beyond this season though, he should return to RF and a spot for Lawrie could be opened up.
Young and 16 mill a year for another 3 is not that appealing anymore.
Young for Dice-K & Lowrie or Scutaro (Boston’d have to eat some of Scutaro’s contract for Texas to consider it) then Young could start at SS? Thoughts?
There are a few problems with your idea. First off Texas has no use for Scutaro and Lowrie would be nothing more than a bench guy behind both Andrus and Kinsler. So that basically makes it Young for Matsuzaka. Texas would have to include money in the deal and i really dont think that they are willing to do that. Even if all that happened then you would have to convince Dice-K to go to Texas. Also unlikely.
Plus idk if Young could be a full time SS again. I think his positions going forward are at 2B or 3B. A team that i think makes some sense would be LA. Granted Texas would have to kick in money to make it happen.
What do you think LA gets Derek Holland, Michael Young and Cash
Texas gets Chad Billingsley and Casey Blake.
LA has depth in the rotation with Kershaw, Kuroda, Garland, Lilly, and Padilla if they were to trade Billingsley that would still leave them with a solid rotation. They would get a huge upgrade at 3B and at the top of the order. Plus they would gain Holland who can be stashed in AAA as a starter or as a lefty out of the pen. If I was Texas id even add in Chris Davis just to get it done.
Texas would get the young front end starter that they want and Blake would give them a guy who could move around in the field and be a RH option at 1B.
thoughts?