5:47pm: MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan says that the Rangers have just "kicked the tires" on Crawford, but are "far more in" on Paul Konerko. The team obviously likes both players, but they feel Konerko is the better fit given their needs.
1:49pm: The Rangers are in on free agent outfielder Carl Crawford and the interest is mutual, according to Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated (via Twitter). The Angels and the Yankees are also of particular interest to Crawford, Heyman tweets.
If Texas were to land Crawford, they would have to creatively re-align their outfield. Crawford would presumably take over in left field, likely making Josh Hamilton the full-time center fielder. Hamilton's career -6.0 UZR/150 in center field indicates that he's below average at that position.
Earlier today, ESPN's Buster Olney surmised that the BoSox will still have enough money after the Adrian Gonzalez trade to go after someone like Carl Crawford or Jayson Werth. However, Heyman believes that recent events make Werth to the Red Sox a likely scenario.
Not just mutual, their high on his list.
I think the actual interest will show Monday-Wednesday at the Winter meetings for all teams for various free agents.
I agree, this will heat up at the winter meetings, but this on going, look at all the deals that have been made already. With the three or four teams involved with Crawford, they all have the money to sign him. I think at this time the Angels have the best chance to land him.
The Yankees will probably end up with him, and I’d be a very happy Yankee fan.
As weird as it feels to type this, I’m not sure they can afford him if the sign Lee (you know, unless they raise their self-imposed $215M salary cap, which is always a possibility).
Many possibilites for the Yanks. They could sign Lee and Crawford and trade Granderson, and Swisher for some pitching, then move Gardner to CF and play Golson and Curtis in RF. By losing both Granderson and Swisher, Crawford’s contract would be a wash.
Sure, that’s all possible, but it’s a lot of moving parts. I think the Yankees will be content with their OF and just make getting Lee the priority.
That an extremely bab move. If the Yanks sign Lee then there really isn’t a need to trade for another pitcher. Even if Pettitte retires a rotation of CC, Lee, AJ, Hughes and Nova is still a good one. If Pettitte comes back then even better. Also, both Swisher and Granderson are going to earn around $15 mil next year and they combined for over 50 hrs last year.
Finally, I don’t see Greinke coming to NY. What other great starting pitchers are out on the market to trade for and most of those teams wouldn’t want to add that kind of salary.
Yankee fans can be real simple.
So can fans of any team. Anyway, I’ll be stunned if the Yankees end up with any major free agent other than Lee. They won’t have the money for anyone else, especially if Pettitte comes back. (They might not even really have the money to make it worth bringing Pettitte back.) A more realistic possibility than Mark Reynolds, which was really random, would be Russell Martin.
Remember they their budget was maxed out when they got TEX, and look what happened. If you look their are not that many good outfileder out there who are going to be free agents in the next few years. By signing Crawford, they would solidify the next generation Yanks.
They have Gardner under control until 2015, Grandy until the end of 2013 and Swisher until the end of 2012. They have what should be a surplus of near or mlb ready pitchers, C’s and 2B for trade bait.
Bautista (11), Eithier (13), Kemp (13), Sizemore (13 or sooner), Choo (14), Adam Jones (14), Victorino (13), Hamilton (13), Cruz (14), Upton (13), Ellsbury (14), Cuddyer (12), D. Young (13),Quentin (13) and DeJesus (11) are all attractive FA over the next couple of years.
You made my point, most of those OFers are not as good or proven as Crawford. and the good one’s today like Hamilton will be signed by their team.
Where would they even put him?
I would be very upset if the Yankees traded Brett Gardner this off season. He’s one of the fastest players in the game today, causes chaos on the basepaths, hits around .280, will get 40 steals a season, and plays an amazing defense. Also, he is still very young and still has to mature, meaning his average will most likely go up.
He’s one of the Yankees future stars, and they need to keep him.
They would keep Gardner and move him to CF.
they dont need him they have a player very very similar to him who is a ton cheaper and younger
Red Sox will wind up with werth
I sadly agree. I don’t like signing werth and would much rather have crawford, but we need a RH bat to add to the lineup after getting AGon.
I agree, it looks like the Sox are going to go after Werth. He will be a major upgrade in the OF and in the line-up. As long as the Sox fans don’t compare the money he is going to get to his production they will be fine. I this day and age, you have to over pay to get any free agent at the top of the list.
Sox fans not comparing production to contract worked out so well for JD Drew….
For the record, I am a Drew supported (though he certainly had a poor year in 2010)
I really don’t find a Werth signing to be that objectionable. Hell, sign him to a 5 year $75million deal like J.D. Drew. Werth could realistically be a similar type player with the Red Sox and Drew’s contract expires at the end of the season. The Red Sox could use a solid right handed bat and his defense would make him well suited to handle Right Field at Fenway park….
The only real question would be how healthy the Red Sox outfield would be this year and how they would choose to make personnel decisions. Werth and Cameron could both come in handy against left handed pitching in the outfield, or even at the DH position from time to time.
Yankees will get Crawford and Lee, just to one-up the Red Sox.
If Werth goes to the Redsox, the yankees will respond by signing Lee and Crawford and will trade Granderson for bullpen help and prospects.
I doubt the Yankees sign Crawford and Lee.
I don’t at all, if they want someone they’ll get him, especially if they need think they need him.
If the Yankees think they need an outfielder, then they are insane.
It’s not that they think they need an outfielder, but they’re trying to one up the redsox. They would trade Granderson, and then sign Crawford. They’ll make room for whoever they want.
no way your talking about close to 40 mill a year for two players and thats assuming they dont back load their deals, if they do it could be close to 50-60 mill a season for two players….but back to 40 mill a year for 2 guys is not counting pettit and bullpen help…cashman is a bit smarter with the kings money the steinbrenner was
no way your talking about close to 40 mill a year for two players and thats assuming they dont back load their deals, if they do it could be close to 50-60 mill a season for two players….but back to 40 mill a year for 2 guys is not counting pettit and bullpen help…cashman is a bit smarter with the kings money the steinbrenner was
Yankees never trade really for prospects, they trade prospects for pieces. Also, there is zero chance they would move Granderson for pen pieces. The only way I see them moving an OFer is if they lose out on Lee, they could trade Gardner+Jesus and a pitching prospect (not necessarily one of the B’s, maybe a Phelps/Noesi/Warren type) for Greinke and sign Crawford to replace Gardner. I think the contact with Crawford is just touching base on a possible plan B if Lee doesn’t work out.
How about trading Granderson for a young starter is Sanchez!
They really don’t need a LH AJ type.
Crawford, Cruz, and Hamilton would be a crazy outfield. If Crawford signed with Texas things will have almost come full circle…Hamilton and Crawford were suppose to make up one of the best young outfields in the game in Tampa, and now they still might get to.
Crawford-Hamilton-Cruz
Best outfield in baseball?
I would have to say yes. I think Crawford, Hamilton, and anyone would be the best outfield in baseball. I mean, it’s no McClouth and Melky, but that was last year…
Crawford-Bourjos-Hunter
Sorry guys, he’s coming to Anaheim. That outfield right there is amongst the best in MLB. Try n match it.
You may end up being right, but saying something doesn’t make it so. If it did I would be way too busy with Jessica Alba and Jessica Biel to be talking baseball rumors right now.
If only ESPN would start playing that.
If only ESPN would start playing that.
I’d take Gardner-Granderson-Swisher and Murphy-Hamilton-Cruz over that, but that’s one of the better ones out there.
i can think of 3 outfields off the top of my head i would take over that.
Just out of curiosity, which ones?
Cardinals with Holliday, Rasmus, and Jay/CraigYankees with Gardner, Granderson, SwisherRed Sox with Werth, Ellsbury, Drew
Rangers with Murphey-Hamilton-Cruz(if he is healthy ALL season)none are clear cut favorites, but if you were to ask me which one i would take going forward, i’d take those 4 ahead of Crawford/bourjos/Hunter. This is just my personal opinion because I’m not that high Bourjos and Hunter isn’t getting any younger. Now Mike Trout…that might put a wrinkle in this.
Since when did the Sox sign Werth?
three weeks from now.
what,you can’t see the future?
pfft!
(I know this sounds stupid but I’d rather see a sox OF of Kalish-Ellsbury-Reddick. It might be a third the production but it would be more interesting to me.)
three weeks from now.
what,you can’t see the future?
pfft!
(I know this sounds stupid but I’d rather see a sox OF of Kalish-Ellsbury-Reddick. It might be a third the production but it would be more interesting to me.)
Around the same time the Rangers signed Crawford. The OP was talking about IF the Rangers sign Crawford, so I think an “IF” the Sox sign Werth is appropriate in this instance.
What about the Angels, they are not going to allow the Rangers to get Crawford without a fight!
I know, I didn’t make the assumption that they would sign him (I’m not sure that I think they will) I was simply asking Ferrariman who he thought would have better outfields than the potential one in Texas if the trade did happen as the OP suggests.
Around the same time the Rangers signed Crawford. The OP was talking about IF the Rangers sign Crawford, so I think an “IF” the Sox sign Werth is appropriate in this instance.
Since when did the Sox sign Werth?
I was kind of thinking the same thing about the Sox, assuming they sign Werth, but was afraid that it was maybe just because I am a Sox fan. And I thought I might take the Yankees outfield over that one too. As for the Cardinals, good call I hadn’t thought of them but I would agree they are right there with them.
Current? Or Like Bonds, Mays, Griffey kinda deals?
The Rangers could match or beat that right now.
cruz-crawford-hamilton…..would be a great out field…crawford could easily play CF
Well the talk was that he actually couldn’t as he was more of an amazing short bursts of speed guy. There is a reason he does not play CF.
people want to see, and the Rangers want to put Hamilton in one of the corner outfield spots to protect him. I seem to forget all the times that Hamilton got injured by slamming into the FIELD… Maybe someone can refresh my memory. The likelihood of Josh running into the fence in Center is about the same as running into the fence in Left or Right. When (realistically IF) Crawford gets here, he can play which ever outfield spot he wants, because Hamilton will play ANY outfield position the same way he plays Center.
Well the talk was that he actually couldn’t as he was more of an amazing short bursts of speed guy. There is a reason he does not play CF.
cruz-crawford-hamilton…..would be a great out field…crawford could easily play CF
Well I guess that all gets thrown out when CC joins the Red Sox.. Werth is a nice player and all but the Sox won’t lose out on CC over $5 MM a year and an extra year or two (6 years rather than 4 or 5 for Werth) which I already mentioned in a few other posts. It’s $5 MM (or so) which is not enough to justify losing him to the yankees.
The trouble with that would be the make up of the lineup. Ellsbury, Crawford, Gonzalez, Ortiz, and Drew are all lefties. And most of those guys bat at the front/middle of the order. In a division with bunches of talented lefties (and presumably adding Lee) that likely wouldn’t be the best.
Boy would I like to be Crawford and Werth this year! All the top teams with money to spend are going to be bidding on them. Merry Christmas!
I’d rather see the Rangers spend on pitching. Maybe they can add him and a pitcher.
Just out of curiosity, why are Red Sox *fans* (edit) so down on the potential of signing Werth? He’s a great right handed hitter who brings a seeming perfect balance to the Red Sox lineup. I actually want him back, so I’ll take him if you don’t want him. Lol
You’re right, and the fans may not know it but apparently the Red Sox front office does, as all the talk is Werth is their top FA target.
Also, as a Braves fan I’m very glad to see him gone from Philly, no offense.
None taken. I know we will / would miss him. (Still hoping.) Lol
The theory is how over priced he is, because of the way the market is. The way people are talking is as if Werth is going to command close to $100 MM. Umm, I’d pass at $80 MM if I were Theo & Co, let alone $20 MM more. I would offer Werth 4 years $75 MM and that’s it. CC would get 6/$100. Power is the only thing CC has less of then Werth. Plus, CC is a LF, Werth is a RF who’d be shifted to LF. All in all, it’s wOrth it to spend the extra money on CC, get his talents and also keep him away from the yankees.
His asking price was around $100MM, but I don’t think he was ever really in a place to command that. I think he’s due much closer to what Jason Bay got from the Mets. I think it’s the years that are a little outrageous. A four year, $70 – $75MM contract is probably fair for Werth, but there were rumors that he was looking for a seven year deal. Can’t see that happening. I think you’re undervaluing Werth though. He’s going to hit around .300, provide above average power to all fields, and impress with the glove. He’s a very underestimated baserunner as well. I don’t think he’s all that less valuable than Crawford, to be honest.
I agree, and good OFers are hard to find. All the great players today are infielders. I think Crawford signs first and then there’s a scramble for Werth. Plus look at most of the signings so far and you will see that most of them are over payed.
You also have the Angles and Rangers bidding against the Yankees for CC. I personally think CC is a better fit for the Angels style of baseball then he is for the Yankees’. I think Werth will be WERTH it in the end with the production that he is going to do in terms of power, defense, and balancing of the lineup.
I would agree, if he could be had for 4/60.
Never understood why fans care how much a player is making. It’s not like we’re paying the contract.
Well most fans care because their teams have limited payrolls. So if you overpay on a player, it means you have less resources to fill needs elsewhere. There are only a few teams for whom this need not be a meaningful concern.
This is true, but their are owners like the Twins where their owner is worth over a Billiion dollars jet they didn’t keep Santana and others. I would be more concerned about the fact that some of these owners just don’t want to win! If I was worth a Billiion dollars and I decided to own a team, I would spend some money to get the best players.
for most MLB owners, owning the team is an expensive hobby
Absolutely right. It’s not like fans spending money on tickets and at the stadium is revenue the team uses for anything.
Its about the team. I don’t want the Sox giving Werth and $80M contract because I know that it would hurt the team in the long-run, preventing them from acquiring other players.
Giving Werth 80 million is not going to hurt the team if he plays to his potential, the question should be is Theo picking the right player for the Sox to win.
I’m more than just an average fan, I sport a fishtail B on my right shoulder, have attended more than 1000 games at Fenway, and very rarely miss a game on tv. I actually do have a life, work a ft job, and go to the gym 5 days a week. I just love my Red Sox. I also have met many players and Theo himself. Soo I am way more than an average fan. I also have mlbtraderumors as the homepage on my android. I understand the economics of baseball and what their salaries mean to ticket prices, concession prices, and also how it makes it hard to sign other players that will make the team better. So do we want a JD Drew contract every 4 years?? So just because a guy is a “top FA” means he should get overpaid by millions? Should it not effect me that me and my girlfriend have to pay twice as much to see a Sox game then a, Idk, a diamondbacks game? See, that comment you made is ignorant because it DOES effect fans. I mean the way free agency has been going lately, a player might as well ask for a blank check when he becomes a free agent. A player should get paid for how he performs, not that there are only (x) amount of decent free agents. If you can’t accept a large payday (such as 4/60) move on.
LOOK, your completly wrong on this one. The players salary have little to do with the price of anything at the park, tickets, concession, or anything else. The owners charge you what they know they can get, and besides you go to the game to see the players play. You watch a movie, an the actor gets paid handsomely, you watch a TV show and the actor gets paid well, or go to a concert and see what you pay for a ticket. Pay the the player!
If you don’t like the ticket prices and such get Direct TV, MLB Plan and you can watch every game like I do for alot less money. If everyone did this the ticket prices would go down, don’t go to the game.
I agree, I would rather see the player make the money instead of the owner. The teams are not going to lower ticket prices regardless.
The problem is Werth may only be werth 4/80, but he will get more, and if you don’t want to pay him the Sox have an inferior OF. This could be the deal that puts them over the top.
Yeah that’s what I’m thinking too…especially now with the acquisition of AGon…another lefty would overload the lineup with lefties and no power from the right (except for Youk). Werth could provide a good balance to the lineup. In addition, after Drew leaves, Werth can move to RF, Ellsbury to LF, and Kalish in CF. However, if the Sox signs Crawford, how will play RF in the years to come?
Exactly. I stated something similar above. And I also said Francona loves the left/right combos in the lineup. This would be perfect.
Kalish…
Kalish…
I don’t know why people are so down on him. He’s a great player. I am a Sox fan and I really would love to see him in a Red Sox uni next year. An outfield of Werth-Ellsbury-Drew is really good IMO. He hit .296 with 27 homers and 85 RBI’s last year and we would have more protection in Boston then he did in Philly with Pedroia, Youk, Gonzo, Papi all batting in front of him in a small hitter park. He also has plus defense and just has the LOOK of a Red Sox player (with his beard and all). I think he is a GREAT fit for the Red Sox.
EDIT: AND HES GOT A KILLER ARM 😛 Gotta add that -.-
Several reasons why I have reservations on Werth. First, he’s been horrible with RISP. He hit like .186 w/ RISP. Second, Werth has not been a + defender in two seasons. He went from +30 (UZR/150) in 2008, down to 0 for 2009, to -4 in 2010. So the defensive upside isn’t there anymore. That aspect reminds me of why we didn’t re-sign Jason Bay. I wonder how good Werth’s legs are. If his power ever fails him, the RBI’s will completely stop, because he mostly chokes in key scoring situations. Drew hit close to his BA with RISP. I’d feel better with Drew hitting behind our key guys. He’s definitely a right-handed, middle of the line up, power bat, and after getting A-Gonz, that is our need. But is he the right power bat? Not to mention he costs us a 1st round draft pick to sign.
The only way I can see Crawford in Boston is if they trade Ellsbury and use Cameron/Kalish in CF. They would need a speedster at the top of the line up.
Personally I think that Theo still has the pieces if he wanted to, to go out and trade for Justin Upton. Granted he had a down year last year in terms of his power and batting average, and well just about every other stat lol but he is still one of the best young power hitters in the league with the potential to hit a 25+ homers on a yearly basis when healthy in a lineup with a lot of protection and a small hitters park. He could be an alternative to signing werth. Trade for Upton put him in center then go out and sign CC to play left and use a drew/kalish(assuming they keep him) pair in RF. That would be a complete dream situation and will pretty much 100 percent not happen due to the fact that Theo is so reluctant to trade his prospects (suprised he pulled the trigger on Gonzo -.-) but could be an answer. The simple solution is just sign werth and realize what he brings to the red sox.
“But is he the right power bat?”
Who is then?
I think it would only make sense to sign Crawford over Werth at this point if it means the Sox are going to trade Ellsbury+ for a RH bat. This way you would be looking at:
LF: Crawford
2B: Pedroia
1B: Gonzalez
3B: Youkilis
DH: Ortiz
CF: RH bat (Upton…Kemp or Rasmus maybe?)
RF: Drew/Cameron
SS: Scutaro/Lowrie
C: Salty/Tek
Otherwise, just keep Ellsbury and sign Werth.
Exactly what I said -.-
Exactly what I said -.-
CF: Ellsbury
2B: Pedroia
1B: Gonzalez
3B: Youkilis
DH: Ortiz
LF: Werth
RF: Drew/Cameron
SS:Lowrie
C: Salty/Tek
^^This is what it would look like with Werth. IMO Lowrie wins the starting job, he deserves it..and then they trade Scutaro for some bull pen help.
CF: Ellsbury
2B: Pedroia
1B: Gonzalez
3B: Youkilis
DH: Ortiz
LF: Werth
RF: Drew/Cameron
SS:Lowrie
C: Salty/Tek
^^This is what it would look like with Werth. IMO Lowrie wins the starting job, he deserves it..and then they trade Scutaro for some bull pen help.
You said “RH bat” then list Rasmus. He’s left handed.
You said “RH bat” then list Rasmus. He’s left handed.
This would be a good move, but you need to make the trade for the RH bat first to ensure you can get him.
Be realistic for the CF spot buddy.
I think it would only make sense to sign Crawford over Werth at this point if it means the Sox are going to trade Ellsbury+ for a RH bat. This way you would be looking at:
LF: Crawford
2B: Pedroia
1B: Gonzalez
3B: Youkilis
DH: Ortiz
CF: RH bat (Upton…Kemp or Rasmus maybe?)
RF: Drew/Cameron
SS: Scutaro/Lowrie
C: Salty/Tek
Otherwise, just keep Ellsbury and sign Werth.
I personally have been against signing Werth, however after getting Gonzalez he is easily the smarter choice.
For the record my reason for be against the signing of Werth was the money and to some extent the years. If he could be signed for something similar to the J.D. Drew contract I would be all for it, I’m just afraid he gets considerably more than that and think he would have a hard time justifying the contract.
I think he’s the last piece the Sox need. Sure, I would love for them to sign Crawford but when you break it down, they’ve added a great left handed bat in Gonzo. Terry Francona loves to have left/right combos throughout the lineup starting at the top and Werth would be able to add that balance between right and left handers in the lineup. He’s not going to cost as much in terms or money and in years so realistically he’s the best option for the Sox.
Heres an example… not saying it’s a forgone conclusion that we get either of these guys but if they were to do so I think it would like this…
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Gonzalez
Youkilis
Ortiz
Werth
Drew
Salty
Scutaro
Moving Papi down in the order takes a boatload of pressure off of him. I think this would be a very tough lineup to deal with.
Well, because of some risks he’s got. Late bloomer players are always a little scary, although that’s just a feeling I get rather than much of a real risk. He’s also older than Crawford, but is still looking for a lot of years. He’s also a right fielder usually, so he’s going to need to switch positions in Boston. Left field shouldn’t be a problem for him, but he’ll need to learn the wall at the very least. He’s a good player, you are very right. And actually with A-Gon now, I think he’s the better choice. But those are the concerns.
Plus at his current demands, he’s very likely to be overpaid. And after the Lackey debacle last year, that’s going to be scary for Red Sox fans.
Well, because of some risks he’s got. Late bloomer players are always a little scary, although that’s just a feeling I get rather than much of a real risk. He’s also older than Crawford, but is still looking for a lot of years. He’s also a right fielder usually, so he’s going to need to switch positions in Boston. Left field shouldn’t be a problem for him, but he’ll need to learn the wall at the very least. He’s a good player, you are very right. And actually with A-Gon now, I think he’s the better choice. But those are the concerns.
Plus at his current demands, he’s very likely to be overpaid. And after the Lackey debacle last year, that’s going to be scary for Red Sox fans.
I wager it is because Felger and Massarotti on 98.5 the sportshub have been down on both Werth and Crawford. They compare Werth to ‘just another JD Drew’ as the Boston media is generally negative about Drew even when productive.
I wager it is because Felger and Massarotti on 98.5 the sportshub have been down on both Werth and Crawford. They compare Werth to ‘just another JD Drew’ as the Boston media is generally negative about Drew even when productive.
wow, you just hear a whistle in the wind and the Ranger fans are preordering the jerseys, the rangers don’t know what they want and have been attatched to many rumors, but that’s it. The financials down in arlington have improved but since when did they get so bronx like. Don’t see much competition against either the yankees on Lee or the Angels on Crawford..
You need to learn baseball on the business side.
It’s been rumored the Angels are the favorites to land Crawford. The Rangers are just posturing to drive the price up to screw the Angels or another team.
I do follow business, if you don’t have the resources to back your claim then your desires and posturing are mute, you can’t be stretched across the board and expect everyone to bite.
All they said is that they have interest in him. No contract was offered, just a simple phone call. EVERY GM should technically have a conversation with the top FA’s. It doesn’t mean you’ll sign them. If anything, maybe you can learn something from him/agent against a rival within your division.
i know how the game works, but your only taken as serious as the reality presents itself. All GMs should dilagently follow FA’s. I’m more intrigued by the fans setting lineups in there “fantasy” league.
Agreed. Now to change the subject, do you think Crawford will enter the Hall as a Ranger or a Ray?
I’d have to say, an Angel…
All they said is that they have interest in him. No contract was offered, just a simple phone call. EVERY GM should technically have a conversation with the top FA’s. It doesn’t mean you’ll sign them. If anything, maybe you can learn something from him/agent against a rival within your division.
Yea you’re right. Who else but the Ranger’s front office would be throwing rumors out of no where. Wouldn’t at all think about the reporters…….
The Rangers payroll in 2010 was ~$55M, their projected payroll for 2011 is $90-100M. That leaves for an increase of around $45M (yes i know this has to include arbitration raises, but some contracts come off that as well). How many big time players could you fit into $45M?? Cliff Lee would take up ~$25M, leaving you with $10M for raises and $10M for Konerko. (rough numbers, i know). If you dont sign Cliff Lee, you COULD pick up Werth, Crawford, and Konerko, or substitute one of those for Greinke… basically the possibilities are endless.
“I’m sorry, the Rangers aren’t interested in you Crawford, because we’re putting all our eggs in the Cliff Lee basket, go sign elsewhere so we can cry about our poor decision if we don’t land Lee”
Lee is understandable …. but then pettitte and now crawford? Sounds like the rangers are doing their best Yankee imitation … sadly I doubt they get Crawford; Pettitte will and only will return to the Bronx, and the money the Yanks just saved (yes, ironically) on the Jeter Rivera deals will certainly only up their offer to Lee.
You can’t just half read the rumors. Not even a day later it was said the Pettitte to the Rangers rumor was false.
Of course Ryan would never admit to attempting to recruit Pettitte when Andy’s response was a flat out “no”.
That rumor came STRAIGHT out of a New York publication, and only ONE, not multiple. Not a SINGLE Ranger connection came out with ANYTHING regarding this. The rumor hit MLBTR at 5:59PM and by 8:10PM it was already debunked. 2 hours and 11 minutes. Nolan Ryan isnt the kind of guy to come out and just lie.
Of course Ryan would never admit to attempting to recruit Pettitte when Andy’s response was a flat out “no”.
everybody is interested in crawford.
I love it when people go by things like UZR and ignore what they can see with their eyes. Hamilton is a very good centerfielder.
I love it when people go by things like their eyes and ignore UZR. Watching a game on TV rarely gives you a good grasp of a guy’s defensive talent as you can see a diving catch, but don’t really know if it was a great play, or overcoming a terrible angle/bad jump in which most OFs would have caught jogging. Not to mention, going by what you see brings in personal bias and a situation where there is no right answer.
Lets look at the general idea. That you can determine a players range by where balls are hit and how often he turns them into outs. In essence, a bouncing groundball up the middle is the same as a line shot. A lazy fly ball caught at the wall is the same as Willie May’s catch. The fact is, UZR ignores the most important factor in whether a fielder catches the ball which is how hard it was hit. The nature of the field surface is also important. Balls hit on long grass are going to move much slower, than balls hit on harder surfaces. And UZR gives no credit for cutting off a hard hit ball and holding a player to a single. In short, UZR is all but useless in evaluating a player’s defense. It ignores the most important factor in whether a ball is a hit, how hard the batter hit it.
First, you might want to read up on how UZR is done with an explaination that consists of more than one sentance. Let’s just compare eye vs UZR for a sec. Now to have an informed opinion to match UZR, did you see every play of everygame of the player in question? Otherwise you might be swayed unjustly. If someone only saw Gardners first few games this year, one would conclude he isn’t a great defender. To your other point of seeing where they catch it, that can very easily fool you as replays don show where they start. Ellsbury plays CF nearly standing on the warning track, thus making deep balls easy to get and shallow ones look like harmless singles, whereas Gardner in CF plays much more shallow and gets to some of those as well as gets to the deep ones. Then there is the fact people interpret what they see and without a metric, nobody is right or wrong. (“I think Jeter is a great defender.” vs “I think Jeter is a bad defender.” How do you prove whose right). This weekend I saw a report on Cam Newton where 1 NFL scout thought he was wildly inaccurate and another called him the most accurate college qb. Your premise and philosophy is far more flawed than UZR is.
Still UZR doesn’t take into account how hard the balls ere hit. That makes a huge difference. Of course nothing is perfect, but you can tell from watching Hamilton that he a good outfielder.
The stats geeks just have to have something to follow. It is almost like a religion to them. They value stats over the game itself sometimes.
It reminds me of that line, “who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?”
Once again you really have no grasp on UZR. It actually takes into account how hard a ball is hit and if a fielder holds a runner to a single instead of a double. By your theory on watching them, I have watched him play CF and think he’s a mediocre defensive CF. Now if you think he is a good defensive CF, how do you prove me wrong? Am I just supposed to take the word of a random person on the internet?
Well, I feel the same about UZR as you do Hamilton’s centerfield play, mediocre at best. You don’t have to take my word regarding Josh and I don’t have to take your word regarding UZR. Nothing wrong with that.
I agree with you bennieyes. UZR is a fake stat, realistically. It’s not something one could really set a record in, because it changes EVERY year… For example, if EVERY team had 2009 Yuniesky Betancourt (-21.3 UZR) then the league average would be 0, and Betancourt would then have a 0 UZR. Then the team that employs 2009 Franklin Gutierrez (29.1 UZR) would now have a guy with a 50.4 UZR. (yes i know they dont play the same position, but that’s not the point) Now if every team were to upgrade to Franklin Gutierrez the league average UZR is 0, and the team that gets Josh Hamilton (2009 UZR 5.9) now has a -23.2 UZR.
This stat is VERY subjective. It does NOT tell you how well a player did, rather, it just COMPARES them to the league average. If the league does well one year, a player might look bad. If the league does bad, that player might look better.
Agreed. If a stat suggests that Hamilton is a bad centerfielder then it’s obviously not a very reliable stat.
One salient consideration I have not seen mentioned yet is the fact that Crawford has proven he can succeed in the grueling AL East. I think Werth would probably be fine, but there is a question mark there, whereas Crawford has no such mark.
Lol. The AL East it good, but you’re overrating it just a bit.
Lol. The AL East it good, but you’re overrating it just a bit.
One salient consideration I have not seen mentioned yet is the fact that Crawford has proven he can succeed in the grueling AL East. I think Werth would probably be fine, but there is a question mark there, whereas Crawford has no such mark.
Let me make it clear, I like Werth. Just not as much as CC. The money is going to be the same if they both sign for what they are asking for.. so if that is the case then why not just sign CC. If they could get Werth for $15 MM a year and CC ends up signing for $22+ then sure by all means sign Jayson. I think he’s a very good player, I just lean towards CC.
i sincerely doubt Werth gets Holliday money. Last offseason, Boras wanted Tex money for Holliday, how’d that turn out?
Ironically, he Homered to STL and signed for less than he probably could have if he went to another team. Personally speaking, and I’m sure there are those who disagree, Werth shouldn’t sign for more than $12 MM a year. Plain and simple. Take $12 MM a year to play for a team that contends every year or take $15+ to play for a last place team your choice.
Ironically, he Homered to STL and signed for less than he probably could have if he went to another team. Personally speaking, and I’m sure there are those who disagree, Werth shouldn’t sign for more than $12 MM a year. Plain and simple. Take $12 MM a year to play for a team that contends every year or take $15+ to play for a last place team your choice.
i sincerely doubt Werth gets Holliday money. Last offseason, Boras wanted Tex money for Holliday, how’d that turn out?
I lean that way too. However, I agree with Heyman that Werth has become much more likely. Not only because of the contract, either. They’ve still got Ellsbury, who while not NEARLY the player Crawford is, IS in fact that speed threat the Crawford would be. If Boston had to lose Ellsbury in the deal, Crawford moves to the top of the list so they can still run, but with him there the speed factor of Crawford’s game is slightly less of a priority now for Boston. And more importantly, A-Gon is a lefty, and Crawford is a lefty. Signing Crawford gives us a lineup with FIVE lefties. Scary thought when we still have to play against Price, Sabathia, maybe Pettite, Matusz, and Ricky Romero on a regular basis. Signing Werth instead gives us a more balanced lineup, and a -very- powerful middle of the lineup, with Youkilis/A-Gon/Ortiz/Werth. Crawford is great, but I think signing Werth gives them a balanced lineup, plus a couple million more to splurge on a Feliciano or Downs for the bullpen.
I lean that way too. However, I agree with Heyman that Werth has become much more likely. Not only because of the contract, either. They’ve still got Ellsbury, who while not NEARLY the player Crawford is, IS in fact that speed threat the Crawford would be. If Boston had to lose Ellsbury in the deal, Crawford moves to the top of the list so they can still run, but with him there the speed factor of Crawford’s game is slightly less of a priority now for Boston. And more importantly, A-Gon is a lefty, and Crawford is a lefty. Signing Crawford gives us a lineup with FIVE lefties. Scary thought when we still have to play against Price, Sabathia, maybe Pettite, Matusz, and Ricky Romero on a regular basis. Signing Werth instead gives us a more balanced lineup, and a -very- powerful middle of the lineup, with Youkilis/A-Gon/Ortiz/Werth. Crawford is great, but I think signing Werth gives them a balanced lineup, plus a couple million more to splurge on a Feliciano or Downs for the bullpen.
Let me make it clear, I like Werth. Just not as much as CC. The money is going to be the same if they both sign for what they are asking for.. so if that is the case then why not just sign CC. If they could get Werth for $15 MM a year and CC ends up signing for $22+ then sure by all means sign Jayson. I think he’s a very good player, I just lean towards CC.
Obviously Crawford is the preferred player for the Sox. However, the current sox need is a RH OF bat to hit 6th in the lineup. That is Werth. Another alternative is trading Ellsbury+ for a RH OF bat and signing Crawford (I’d prefer to keep him away from the Yankees and acquire Kemp or Rasmus, etc.)
What would you offer the Cards for Rasmus, a 25 + HR CF making $450K??
What would you offer the Dodgers for Kemp, a 26 year old who with 25+ Hr 30SB capabilities, who only makes $4M. In the same boat as the Rasmus comment 😛
Konerko would kill the ball in Texas.
Konerko is not signing with TEX.
You dont think so? I personally think hes staying with the Sox, but it would be interesting to see the Rangers sign Konerko and Guerrero with Konerko splitting time between 1st base and DH. I could see that happen. Guerrero wont be as much as people think.
I hope you are right about this and that Kenny is trading Quentin
as a sox fan, just sign werth and be done with it. keep ellsbury and then construct a bullpen, because that is equally as important right now. and that just makes the most sense.
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Gonzalez
Youkilis
Ortiz
Werth
Drew
Salty/Tek
Scutaro/Lowrie
damn good lineup right there
This just in: The Rangers are interested in every free agent except for Barry Bonds….unless Bonds will accept a 1 year incentive laden deal in which case they will “Kick the tires.”
kick the tires all day, Konkerko is going to be a WSock.
how the hell can they STILL have money x_X. They’re no better than the Yankees. Baseball needs a salary cap. This is ridiculous
who exactly did they sign? so far they’ve signed torreibla (idc how it’s spelled), that japanese dude, and a backup catcher i think?
they’re simply interested. It wouldn’t surprise me to see one of the two… but the fact that you’re talking like their payroll rivals that of the yankees literally offends me.
lol i was talkin about the BoSox. I thought about it, and honestly if I were a Yankee or Boston fan, I wouldn’t care how much all stars we have on the team. As a fan that’d be heaven. Playoffs every year
I don’t care what that UZR rating says on Hamilton, there is no way he is a below average CF. That’s one of the most absurd things I’ve ever heard.
So the Rangers are interested in everybody this offseason.
rangers will sign cliff to a 5 year 110mil deal with an optional 6th making it a 133mil.. they trade hunter-davis-perez-beltre for greinke, they sign vlad/konerko to a one year deal with a club option at 8mil/year.. thus the 2011 Texas Rangers will look like this:
rotation – Lee, Greinke, Wilson, Lewis, Holland/Kirkman (they’ll give him a shot in spring training)
batting order:
1) andrus – ss
2) young – 3b
3) hamilton – cf/lf
4) vlad/konerko – dh..dh/1b
5) cruz – rf
6) kinsler – 2b
7) murphy – lf
8) torrealba – c
9) moreland – 1b
seems outlandish but its more than possible, and it all starts with lee. i think the rangers are just trying to keep crawford away from LA so they increase the number of teams bidding until the price isnt right for the angels. yankees will probably come away with either lee or crawford, as a rangers fan i’m hoping for the latter. but dont sleep on detroit, they want werth/crawford and they’ve already proven this offseason they’ll pony up the money
That doesnt make alot of sense why not put crawford in center if hamilton is below average there. Crawford has alot of speed and agility perfect for CF, it would not be that big of an ajustment for him to go there if in fact they landed Crawford.