The Dodgers non-tendered Russell Martin, making him a free agent, the team announced on Twitter today. Jon Heyman of SI.com reports that they tried hard to trade the catcher first (Twitter link), but Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times reports that the Dodgers still have some interest in Martin (Twitter links). The last proposal Martin made the Dodgers was for $5MM, plus $1MM in incentives, according to Hernandez.
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Mets should get him
Josh Thole could easily put up the same offensive numbers that Martin has put up the last year or two.
.680 OPS. Yikes.
Well with what he did in the majors this year and the well over 1,000 PA he put up in the minors, I’d say a solid OBP/low power line is to be expected out of Thole. And considering that’s pretty much what Martin has done the past couple years, why not give the kid the chance to be the everyday catcher? He’s no more of a risk than any young player is.
Maybe….Martin is a better more polished catcher….he interests me….
Thole needs to be mentored. Martin is not the guy for that kind of job.
Ur probably right
Totally agree, what the Mets need is to either keep Henry Blanco or sign a Gregg Zaun type.
I was about to mention Greg Zaun since he and Thole have a similar skill set.
haha yeah right! you guys claimed enough Former Dodger Catchers
Piazza, LoDuca, Martin…get your own catchers!
Hey it worked before ;)))
Melancholy about this. Sad to see him go and would like to see a small figure offer made as a FA. Handled the staff well. Would love to see him bounce back.
Im sorry Russ! Best luck to you, wherever you go.
It is sad to see him go, but he just couldn’t stay healthy.
This was his first major injury…?
It took a broken hip to get him out of a game.
This was his first major injury…?
Wow. Was expecting to sign him for lower amount….
I think I’m just surprised due to us LAD fans loving our catchers and bring heart broken….Piazza, LoDuca…etc
Does this move foreclose the “lower amount” option? I don’t think so, but I might be behind on the news.
I really wouldn’t mind if Jays picked him up. Could help us out at C/1st/DH.
LOL @ DH. Manny Ramirez at age 38 put up better numbers than Russell Martin’s best year. Oh and Martin has a busted hip. The ONLY value in Martin lies as a catcher. You want a 1B/DH who has a .680 OPS over the last 2 years in the AL East? If he wasn’t from Toronto, would you care?
I didn’t even know he was from Toronto and I could care less. He gives the Jays a few options. 1st base and catcher are still unknown and we have no idea how well Arencibia might play and whether or not if he can stick… same with Lind. Martin can move around and it’s few options to play with.
And get over with your Manny Ramirez bullcrap. He is just a DH with baggage and we already have no idea whether or not if Lind and Arencibia can play their position. What if they struggle? You can’t play them at the DH spot because Manny would be taking that spot.
Martin is still pretty young and with a change in scenery, he can return to his old self. Had a good OBP although his power really slipped.
“I didn’t even know he was from Toronto and I could care less”I believe it’s “couldn’t”. “Martin can move around”Martin has ZERO value anywhere other than C.”And get over with your Manny Ramirez bullcrap. He is just a DH with baggage”I’ll take a guy that still puts up a .410 OBP at age 38 with some “baggage” over a dude that slugs .330. This is a results oriented business last time I checked. And can you stop acting like Martin is going to play half his games at C and the other half at 3B/1B? The guy has a broken hip. He can’t even run under next year yet all of a sudden he’s our super utility defensive player? Ugh.
I believe it’s “couldn’t”.
dont be that guy
To be fair, it is “couldn’t”.
Just helping him out.
well i could care less:) haha i thought it was kinda funny! ill have to be careful if i see you around!
well i could care less:) haha i thought it was kinda funny! ill have to be careful if i see you around!
Thanks grammar police!
is that the Kelsey Grammer police?
he’s from Toronto, too, isn’t he?
isn’t every Canadian “from Toronto”?!
Ugh. I generally don’t give a crap about grammar, but that one in particular is a pet peeve of mine. Probably because almost everyone gets it wrong. And it’s really not that complicated.
Its a baseball forum, not an english class. I dont “proof-read” what I post, in fact, Im so bad at typing, I have to look down at the keypad while typing. if you are here to correct spelling, find a job in a school, you are much more needed there.. if you want to talk baseball, nevermind the occasional misspelling. Life is too short for a grammar contest on a baseball blog. Lighten up people.
Grayrace, this wasnt really to you, just a reply for everyone who wasted time figuring out the difference between could nad couldnt, when everyone knew what the dude was saying.
Side note.. are you a bad religion fan?
Agreed. I hear he can play 3rd too, so he’d fill every position vaccuum Toronto has.
The idea of Lind at first makes me cringe. Let him focus on improving his hitting first and then allow him to try out at 1st. I feel as though having him work on his footwork and fielding skill is too much to burden the guy with because if he starts the season as a crappy hitter AND a crappy fielder it’s a just huge step backward. Bah! I hope they trade him, I hate seeing Lind strike out.
But yeah. I like Martin too.
You hate Lind but like Martin as your 1B? Is this Bizzaro day? Lind had an absolutely abysmal year last year. OBP under .290. Yet that “crappy hitter” ‘s OPS was still .33 points higher than Martin. What does that say about Martin? And you’re being kind of naive if you think Martin at this point in his injury riddled career can handle 3B.
Well, he’s Canadian. That must count for something.
Ya, if he signs for loonie’s on the dollar.
ok ok ok kenny williams call him now..sign him let him and AJ split time and DFA castro
I like, I like!
Was just thinking that. They probably just didn’t want to take the risk. I was hoping they’d get him too, on a one year incentive deal with an option. Oh well. 🙁
thats what flowers is for he is the back up back up catcher
Mariners…
…probably can’t afford him with teams like Boston after him, but would definetly like to add him.
Bostons not after him they just resigned Varitek unless theyre trading saltowhatevertheheck his name is
While I think it lessens the likelihood, I wouldn’t count them out. Martin’s a right hander who, despite serious regression, has always exhibited great plate discipline. To my knowledge, Saltalamacchia still has options, so they could, if pressed, peg him as the starter in AAA to start the season and give Martin a whirl. If he doesn’t work out, they can cut him and eat the money, if he does, they can bring Salty back up as a September callup or when Varitek innevitably gets hurt.
Salty’s making league minimum, so even if they gave Martin the $5 million plus incentives he wants, we’d still only have about as much dedicated to the catching position as the Marlins do. I’ve always liked the idea of having Martin in Boston and with it so easy to do, I really want to see Epstein bite on this one.
The Dodgers should have tendered him a contract he probably could have bounced back. Stupid move
Probably? Do you know something about hip injuries that several doctors don’t? He was a huge risk to ever come back to his 2008 levels, even if he was healthy. Anything more than $2 million plus incentives is throwing money away.
thats a big risk for 6 million
Red Sox should get him, to put everything on Salty is crazy. You have no idea what he will be as an everyday catcher. This is great now we don’t have to give up anything to get a solid player that could hit 20 homers in a good year.
He’s never hit 20 home-runs ONCE in his career. But yes, I’m sure he’ll do it if he becomes a Red Sock.
But put him in Fenway and the HR totals are bound to go up
I could insert 20 stadiums into where you put Fenway there. It means nothing. “Put him in Texas and he’ll hit 40!” Again, he hasn’t hit 20 ONCE in his career. And he’s hurt.
Is 19 really that off from 20 dude? I mean he probably won’t hit 20 ever but stop being so literal.
“I mean he probably won’t hit 20 ever ”
So we agree? Cool, then don’t nitpick over semantics.
You definitely get the “Debbie Downer Award” in this thread. The optimism isn’t entirely unfounded here. The guy has a ton of talent, when he finally does feel 100%, and all indications are that he will be ready for spring training, there’s no telling how he’ll bounce back. Especially in a park like Fenway with it’s short porch in right. I think the Red Sox are done with their catching but Epstein never shys away from low risk/high reward types.
“So we agree? Cool, then don’t nitpick over semantics.”
Says the guy who nitpicks grammar…
After reading this thread you obviously are a contestant for “Troll of the Year”. But maybe I am just “nitpicking”.
Ridiculously great year, you mean. 20 home runs is pushing it, man.
This has Red Sox written all over it
Wow! So i guess Barajas or the scrub, Ellis is our solution behind the plate. That is horrible!
Martin had a .249 BA and .680 OPS over the last two seasons. Those numbers basically match the career numbers for Barajas. Martin draws walks, Barajas hits homeruns… about the only difference offensively.
Martin was the better defender. I say was because his injury likely impacts that. We’ll see how it plays out.
A.J. Ellis is basically a clone of Martin offensively. Has almost zero power, but can draw walks with the best of them. Despite the poor CS% in his limited amount of ML playing time, Ellis is a good defensive catcher.
“Martin draws walks, Barajas hits homeruns… about the only difference offensively.”
As someone who’s dealt with Varitek behind the plate more often than not the last four years, I’ll take the walks over home runs from the catching position. Having a guy hit a bomb once in a while is no substitute for a catcher who doesn’t give away an at bat, especially if you have a relatively strong lineup around the guy.
Honestly, when all is said and done, Martin’s non tendering is the least surprising development given his injury recovery makes his status iffier. WHich means they couldn’t really get good value out of trading him. They clearly still want him back. They want more time to negotiate a contract that will be more appropriate for his status including whatever incentives seem appropriate. I hope they bring him back. But now of course they have to compete with other teams.
god i hope dodgers can still work out a contract i dont want to see one of my favorite players wear another uniform
Both Martin and Dioner Navarro nontendered. My how things have changed for Dodger catchers.
Now it all comes down to if he wants to be a Dodger or get slightly more money somewhere else.
A) Red Sox can continue to laugh hard at some of the Ellsbury for Martin proposals that others mentioned today in the other posts.
B) Dodgers should be utterly ashamed that they simply cut Martin and got nothing in return. “Hard to trade” ? If you know you have intentions on releasing him then you find a deal rather than getting nothing. They have the power and they are better off getting something of value in return even if it’s just a “b” prospect or fringe relief pitcher.
I want the Yanks to sign Martin and offer some competition between Montero and Cervelli next year and act as a safety net in case Montero can’t make the team out of spring training. As it stands if something should go wrong with Montero (extremely poor spring training or an injury) then we would be stuck with Posada and Cervelii all over again.
Montero has no business being in AAA as it is. Unless he’s traded, he should split time with Posada at C/DH. Really no room for Martin IMO.
A little more time in AAA could help him. Montero’s a young player still very unproven as a catcher. It wouldn’t hurt to have him catch everyday to start off the season. It would most likely do more good than bad for the guy, keeping a top prospect like Montero on the bench could keep him from developing. I say have him start off in AAA with the intention of calling him up early June.
Nearly every pro scout has said that he will never stick at catcher. A couple extra games at AAA will not make him a good receiver all of a sudden.
That’s kind of “older” scouting reports…but your right until last year when his defense behind the plate got much better. The thing that makes Montero so interesting is that he is getting better each year, he is a big target and barrels more balls, according to Baseball american, than any other hitter in AAA….He is still only 21, just turned 21 last week…amazing how he has zoomed thru the minors excelling at every level. No he will not be a good receiver all of a sudden but the Ynaks think he will be adequate,which would be just fine, the thing is though, does he really need to be “that good” to equal what we saw out of Posada and cervelli this past year….one couldn’t block any balls, nor throw anyone out and the other didn’t hit one homer all year. Its his job and all he has to be is adequate. I understand the scouts say he has quite an arm, also….He has the tools to improve each and every year….Should be exciting to watch. Another Yankee home grown player who could be real good???
I don’t disagree with the bat at all. And no he cannot be any worse than Posada. But he is not a good defensive catcher in the slightest, by all accounts.
Totally agree as I look thru scouting reports. But also I think he is even a better hitter in AAA than I thought….Mashing the ball in the 2nd half at a .351 clip with 14 hrs in his last 44 games. Numerous scouts now indicate he is the best pure hitter left in the minors…he had 6 errors and 12 passed balls last year to back up your claim. I’l have to look at how many Posada had…I think he had quite a few also….Thanks for info
That’s kind of “older” scouting reports…but your right until last year when his defense behind the plate got much better. The thing that makes Montero so interesting is that he is getting better each year, he is a big target and barrels more balls, according to Baseball american, than any other hitter in AAA….He is still only 21, just turned 21 last week…amazing how he has zoomed thru the minors excelling at every level. No he will not be a good receiver all of a sudden but the Ynaks think he will be adequate,which would be just fine, the thing is though, does he really need to be “that good” to equal what we saw out of Posada and cervelli this past year….one couldn’t block any balls, nor throw anyone out and the other didn’t hit one homer all year. Its his job and all he has to be is adequate. I understand the scouts say he has quite an arm, also….He has the tools to improve each and every year….Should be exciting to watch. Another Yankee home grown player who could be real good???
What I said was “if” he has a poor spring OR gets injured. It was said by Cashman that he would have to earn the position (i.e. he would really have to suck immensly not to win it). ALso, he’s had a number of small injuries that have bothered him in the past, mostly related to running and a thumb problem.
Big IFs but IF he doesn’t win the job or gets hurt during spring training then the Yanks are left with Posada who they don’t want to catch more than 1 or 2 games a week and Cervelli. Not very much depth right now and you don’t want to rush Romine either.
Martin is certainly a luxury (as opposed to bringing in a journey man type) and if he’s healthy could probably get a full-time gig somewhere else but it would be nice if the Yanks could get him. When healthy he’s Cervelli with more pop with the type of defense Cervelli showed in 2009.
“Big IFs but IF he doesn’t win the job or gets hurt during spring training then the Yanks are left with Posada who they don’t want to catch more than 1 or 2 games a week and Cervelli. Not very much depth right now and you don’t want to rush Romine either. ”
I wish so much that the MLB GM’s would all get together and just decide to stop giving a crap about offense out of the catcher position. What you just cited SHOULD be plenty and honestly, I’m content with my squad going into the season with Saltalamacchia and Varitek (Though I would gladly take Martin on). I actually saw a guy on the Boston Globe yesterday whining about how you can’t get by in the AL East without strong catching, but last I checked, catching in the AL East is kind of a mess right now. Sure, the Orioles, Yankees and Blue Jays all have young guys who MIGHT work out, but last I recall, no AL East team currently has a lock to perform behind the dish.
What I said was “if” he has a poor spring OR gets injured. It was said by Cashman that he would have to earn the position (i.e. he would really have to suck immensly not to win it). ALso, he’s had a number of small injuries that have bothered him in the past, mostly related to running and a thumb problem.
Big IFs but IF he doesn’t win the job or gets hurt during spring training then the Yanks are left with Posada who they don’t want to catch more than 1 or 2 games a week and Cervelli. Not very much depth right now and you don’t want to rush Romine either.
Martin is certainly a luxury (as opposed to bringing in a journey man type) and if he’s healthy could probably get a full-time gig somewhere else but it would be nice if the Yanks could get him. When healthy he’s Cervelli with more pop with the type of defense Cervelli showed in 2009.
Guess the Yanks were trying to trade Cervelli for Martin. I heard they even exchanged medical records. I really cant understand how Ned Coletti screwed this up so bad
Guess the Yanks were trying to trade Cervelli for Martin. I heard they even exchanged medical records. I really cant understand how Ned Coletti screwed this up so bad
Welcome to the padres
Any team that guarantees Martin anything over $2 mill is taking a big risk. He’s still rehabbing and can’t run and even when he was healthy, he was in the midst of a 2 yr decline.
Russell’s best move is to re-sign with the Dodgers on an incentive-laden deal unless some team does get stupid and actually throws something like $4 mill guaranteed at him.
Russell needs to get back to trying to hit doubles and going with pitches rather than just trying to swing for the fences. He’s lost his ability to take walks and get on base and doesn’t make enough solid contact anymore.
Actually his walk rate in 2010 of 12.4% was his highest ever except for 2008 when it was 13.8%. His declining OBP is due to his declining batting average. His KO% has jumped to 18.4% which is the highest ever so the “swinging for the fences” might be correct our it could be due to the bad hip.
Boston needs to sign this guy, and he could be our catcher or 3rd baseman backup. Then have lowire, McDonald, nava, varitek on our bench.
In 5 years time he’s played a whopping 11 games at 3B. And that was before he blew out his hip.
Wow, you really seem to hate Martin, seeing as how you’ve trolled the entire post. And I believe the term is ‘fractured his hip’, not ‘blew out his hip’, grammar cop.
And you’ve trolled a troll as your first post. Congrats. You have a bright future here.
I save my comments for special occasions.
All trolling aside- Not sure how a Barajas/Ellis tandem is better than bringing Martin back. Hoping to see the Dodgers resign him, as he’s the best chance they have at getting any decent production out of the catcher’s spot.
If Martin’s injury potentially prevents him from catching, that’s how Barajas/Ellis is better. Perhaps it is misguided, but I’m trusting Dodger staff/trainers/coaches on their evaluation of Martin’s condition.
At least on the offense end of things, Barajas and Ellis aren’t a downgrade from Martin, either. They basically provide the same thing. A batting average in the .240-.260 range with an OPS a bit below .700. Ellis is basically a Martin clone at the plate (good OBP, nothing else), while Barajas doesn’t draw walks but will give you the occasional HR to make up for it.
And you’ve trolled a troll as your first post. Congrats. You have a bright future here.
Wow, you really seem to hate Martin, seeing as how you’ve trolled the entire post. And I believe the term is ‘fractured his hip’, not ‘blew out his hip’, grammar cop.
Can’t believe they were able to get something for Theriot and not Martin… bizarre.
Consider Martin’s declining offense, the fact that he’s is trying to come back from a serious injury, hasn’t played since the middle of last season, and nobody will know if he can play this year until Spring Training. Compare that to a healthy player, and I think the result is not so bizarre. What I thought was bizarre was all the trade talk. In fact in Martin you’re looking at a perfect non-roster invitee case. I still think he comes back to the Dodgers with a performance-based contract, at least once he finds out that nobody is going to take a $4-5m risk on somebody who could potentially be unable to perform, or spend the season on the DL.
Well… I’m more surprised that someone saw value in Theriot exceeding $3m/year than anything else.
I would think other teams would be more willing to take a risk on a former All-Star catcher than an overpaid middle infielder who should really be nothing more than a utility player.
No way Martin comes back to the Dodgers, IMO. They were clearly ready to sign Barajas the second that Martin refused their last offer. That wasn’t a coincidence. They’ll go with Barajas/Ellis and if they’re going to spend anything more on offense, it’ll be on LF, 1B, or 2B/3B (with Blake moving into utility/platoon role).
Some team will guarantee Martin $4m+. It is being reported that the Dodgers offered $4m + $1m incentives. He calculated that he could get more elsewhere (or thought the Dodgers were bluffing about non-tendering him), and the Dodgers moved on.
It’s all a matter of team needs. If a player like Theriot fits in, he’s worth the $3m. If he doesn’t fit in, he’s worth zero. That’s why you can’t abstract player value, as so many fans like to do these days. Clearly Theriot was worth something to more than one team, or he’d have been non-tendered.
You might be right about the Dodgers and Martin. They may have mutually burned their bridges. I’m hoping not. I’d prefer to see Martin/Barajas to Barajas/Ellis.
Consider Martin’s declining offense, the fact that he’s is trying to come back from a serious injury, hasn’t played since the middle of last season, and nobody will know if he can play this year until Spring Training. Compare that to a healthy player, and I think the result is not so bizarre. What I thought was bizarre was all the trade talk. In fact in Martin you’re looking at a perfect non-roster invitee case. I still think he comes back to the Dodgers with a performance-based contract, at least once he finds out that nobody is going to take a $4-5m risk on somebody who could potentially be unable to perform, or spend the season on the DL.
Seriously!!
Can’t believe they were able to get something for Theriot and not Martin… bizarre.
after looking at the contract he was offered 5 mil plus incentives, goes to show how martin is full of himself. He hasnt proven to earn as much, and were not even sure if he’s coming back healthy. Watch him sign with some team like the pirates, kc.
I miss the days where on this site more than 1/4 of the comments were insightful. Blew out his hip? Yet no damage to the labrum… Not worth 5M, yet considered by BA and statistics prove that Martin does all he can do behind the plate with the run game and calling a game. Id give him 5M because the pitchers love him(and all 5 starters would be accustomed to throwing to Martin) and he is a defensive asset. Even if he is just an OBP guy, that can be very useful at the 2 or 8 hole… Hope they still resign him. A much better player than OPS and passed balls make him seem
Don’t get me wrong I want Martin in Blue but common really 5 million plus incentives isn’t enough.
I guess I should rephrase slightly. While I think his play may be worth 5M(worth 8.3M last year according to fangraphs…), he wont get it. But if the team was looking at worth, he does deserve the 5M…
If he can play. He apparently wanted that much whether or not he could play, which puts all the risk on the team. I think he’s going to have to take about half that much with the rest in performance bonuses if he wants to sign somewhere.
“I miss the days where on this site more than 1/4 of the comments were insightful. Blew out his hip?”
I’ve been coming here regularly for around three years and I don’t remember there ever being a point where more than a quarter of the comments were anything to write home about.
When I first started posting here, probably about 4 years, so there seemed to be a LOT more posters who made long, well thought out posts, and off the top of my head, one of the only posters still here is YFS78
Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
maybe you just miss the days when we all made fun of your tag,
Your truly,
indiansredscavalierheat4life
I miss the days where on this site more than 1/4 of the comments were insightful. Blew out his hip? Yet no damage to the labrum… Not worth 5M, yet considered by BA and statistics prove that Martin does all he can do behind the plate with the run game and calling a game. Id give him 5M because the pitchers love him(and all 5 starters would be accustomed to throwing to Martin) and he is a defensive asset. Even if he is just an OBP guy, that can be very useful at the 2 or 8 hole… Hope they still resign him. A much better player than OPS and passed balls make him seem
I’d LOVE for the Mariners to give him that 5m contract with incentives for more given PT and other factors. He’s certainly better than what they have now and is still young.
id love him back but 5 million guaranteed. nope cant see that. he wont even run for another what 6 weeks? im thinking a hip is a big deal for somebody who squats for a living. looks like the yanks can probably afford him as a risk
oh yeah remember back in the day, martin was offered a 6 yr 36 million extension. he turned it down. what a mistake that is now.
Hahaha. I remember that.
But on the flip side, imagine what the Dodgers could’ve got for him in trade back in those days. He could’ve brought back quite a haul of prospects (and maybe they would’ve kept Carlos Santana).
forgot about that one
the Legend of Ned Coletti just keeps growing
ouch!
not quite JuanGon as far as all-time ‘D’oh!’ miscalculations goes, but that’s gotta hurt
if he doesn’t recover from this injury he might end up back home in Quebec catching Eric Gagne in the CanAm league
There are no shortage of teams that will be in on Martin. If you believe the LA training staff he is progressing through his rehab nicely and the timeline hasnt been slowed by anything.
I think that teams looking at him to be a full time starter probably should look elsewhere or at least have a good backup plan just in case his hip isnt ready.
But there are a few teams that have at least a decent catcher already on the roster that could see him as a high reward starter if healthy or a solid backup if he can only catch 2-3 times a week.
Boston maybe. They need another guy just in case Salty turns back into Rube Baker so he could fit here but that could mean Varitek catching half the time, ugh.
NY. Montero is young and other than Cervelli they really dont have a catcher. There are worse things than letting Montero start the year at AAA and then around June youll know where he is at and Martin/Montero seems pretty formidable.
Seattle. They really dont have a true starting catcher. Adam Moore is there but he is a little old to still be considered a prospect and Johnson is a backup posing as a starter.
SD. Nick Hundley and not a whole lot else. Martin working with that young staff could be really good. Plus the space in Petco caters to his gap power.
TB. A lefty righty pairing with John Jaso has got to be attractive to Maddon.
Colorado. They have Iannetta but little else. Could be another good fit moving to a different NL west team.
I sure as sh!t wish we still had Carlos Santana right about now
I know you East Coast people haven’t seen Martin play very much. But I have seen him play in hundreds of games. He was pretty good his first three seasons. However starting in 2009 something changed. His bat speed decreased, his power evaporated, and he became lazy behind the plate. Maybe he played too much and got tired, I dont know. But he became the backhanded stab guy instead of moving his entire body over to block a ball. Was he tired? Or maybe were there some lab results involved? All I know is he hit a whopping 12 home runs in his last 831 at bats.
The Dodgers needed him. But obviously they did not think he was worth what Martin wanted in compensation. Plus you have to remember he is now 28 years old and coming off a potential career ending injury. The Dodgers would have been insane to offer him 4 million dollars.