The Cardinals feel that Ryan Theriot is an upgrade at shortstop over incumbent Brendan Ryan. Ryan is now expendable, according to Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch: "The Cardinals have let other teams know Ryan is available, and they'll look to trade him during next week's winter meetings in Florida, if not sooner."
Ryan doesn't want to leave, but he doesn't have any say in the matter. He's arbitration eligible for the first time, but his dismal offensive career numbers should keep his salary down. The Fielding Bible's love for his 2010 defense might not provide much ammo for his agents at WMG in an arbitration hearing.
Starting shortstops are hard to come by, but the Pirates, Orioles, and Padres might be the only teams in the market.
I think it’s a no brainer that Theriot is an upgrade at SS for the Cards.
Disagree
the marginal offensive upgrade doesn’t offset the loss of defense, in my opinion. i would consider that a no brainer.
can we at least agree to consider this one a “brainer”?
nope.
nope.
The arguments are all academic at this point. Mo has made his decision on Brendan Ryan. My only hope is that the Cardinals are still talking to the Rays and the Diamondbacks about their respective SS’s and are planning to move Theriot to 2B. If that happens, the Cardinals will have all the pieces they need. And don’t worry about anything after 2012. Once playoffs are expanded, the Cardinals will get a wild card spot every year despite underacheivement. Thanks Bud Selig *note sarcasm*
He’d be an upgrade over Schumaker at second but I don’t think he’s an upgrade over Ryan at SS.
+1 to this. I don’t mind trading Hawksworth for Theriot, but I hate the concept of starting Theriot at SS over Ryan and/or trading Ryan.
I agree. ANYONE is an upgrade at 2B over Schumaker at this point. I don’t get why they don’t start Ryan and Theriot then make Schumaker the backup 2B/OF and Theriot the backup SS.
There is no 2B in the world more useless than Skip Schumaker, except maybe Luis Castillo.
The problem is that Skip is LaRussa’s guy, TONY is the one who envisioned him at 2nd, TONY is the one who taught him all he knows, TONY is the one who is a genius, TONY IS GOD!Seriously, how many more players will be run out because of LaRussa? Rolen, Ludwick, now Ryan, and rumors of Rasmus?!? This is enough.
Um, Ludwick? Do tell…
He was frustrated with the playing time he was getting and had a tense “closed door” meeting with LaRussa just before he was traded…
Google “Ludwick LaRussa” and you’ll see articles about it.
Nice… kick a guy when he’s down.
Sorry, when you’re making 6-7 figures by being a scrub, you’re going to get insulted.
Schumaker is a lefty hitter so I’m guessing that is one reason he isn’t as expendable. But I don’t think it would hurt to have all 3 on the team and play whoever is doing the best.
The Cardinals replaced a terrible hitting/great defensive shortstop wtih a terrible hitting/not very good fielding shortstop. How is that an upgrade?
I don’t know how you can claim that. Theriot’s WAR last year was EXACTLY 0.0. Ryan’s was 1.0–not a big difference, but it’s there.
Theriot steals more bases, but Ryan is slightly more efficient (75% vs. 73%).
Theriot isn’t a strong defender anywhere, posting a -1.0 UZR at 2B and a -3.3 at SS. Ryan, meanwhile, was just the best defensive SS in baseball by UZR, with a +11.5.
If Theriot displayed some of that power he had last year and played 2B, I’d maybe agree. But he fell to 2 HR last year and proved he is bad defensively at short and mediocre at 2B with the glove, while being average at best with the bat (but normally decently below-average).
Basically, Ryan’s a stud on defense, while Theriot has no calling card ability.
Theriot is a utility infielder who can play as a backup in case of an injury. Notice I didn’t type “defensive replacement”. Since 2008, his stats have declined across the board. And his one halfway-decent tool, his base-running, took a huge hit after having a very high SB% in ’08.
He has not been able to duplicate the success of his career year and he was a complete mess with the Dodgers. Not sure how anyone can consider him anything more than a utility player at this stage. Theriot is another in a long line of recent Cubs who, when shipped to other teams, found out that a starter in the Cubs infield is a utility player or backup for most other squads.
I mean, let’s face it — the Cubs have not had an incumbent second baseman worth a damn since Ryno, and Castro is the first legitimate shortstop to come along in at least a generation. I guess anything (anyone) is better than zero.
Mark Derosa wasn’t worth a damn?
It is not an upgrade, unless Jose Oquendo train the guy to play the defense he use to play.
Probably not going to make a difference one way or another. I don’t think either are going to have much of an impact unless Ryan would have made a few miraculous plays at the right time to win a couple extra games, or unless Theriot makes some timely singles when the game is on the line.
I think the big difference makers for the Cards in 2011 will be if Freese is healthy and performing well and if Jay/Craig steps up.
It’s definitely not a no brainer. Ryan can only do better than last year, his defense is gold-glove caliber and there is still room for him to improve. Theriot is a nice player, maybe not a starter and definitely not a great piece to a playoff team
So you would rather have Ryan?
Ryan is an elite defender … he hit 292 in ’09 … Theriot is Miles replacement … if the Cards think Theriot is an upgrade they’ve gone brain dead.
Yes.
playoff team? how? i didn’t see them in the playoffs this year.
He’s saying Theroit is a good utility player and can help a playoff team, not star for a playoff team. He isn’t saying the Cards are a playoff team.
I wouldn’t say that it is a no brainer. Theriot is a nice player. He hits singles, plays average defense, steals some bases, and handles the bat well. A nice player, but nothing special and he is coming off of a year that was going to see him non-tendered. Brendan Ryan is SPECIAL in the field. He makes plays that haven’t been made in STL at SS since Ozzie, but is a HUGE offensive liability. He also has never been one of TLR’s guys so his leash isn’t as long as most. He also has some growing up to do and TLR won’t baby sit a guy who can’t hit.
All in all, I believe Theriot is an upgrade, but not as much as one would think. Ryan has more upside if he can find a stick.
What would you have changed your name to if Westbrook hadn’t re-signed? PujolsHollidayLostLudwickForNothingBecauseWestbrookWasn’tEvenARankedFA?
Good question. I don’t know. I do like your suggestion, but it lacks description…:)
Good question. I don’t know. I do like your suggestion, but it lacks description…:)
What would you have changed your name to if Westbrook hadn’t re-signed? PujolsHollidayLostLudwickForNothingBecauseWestbrookWasn’tEvenARankedFA?
What does “handles the bat well mean”? Is there some new stat I’m not aware of that measures handling of the bat; I mean, besides the ones that say Ryan Theriot is not very good with a bat in his hands?
I would love for Brendan Ryan to be Omar Infante’s replacement.
PLEASE!! PLEASE TAKE HIM!! you don’t even have to give up anything! JUST TAKE HIM!!
PLEASE!! PLEASE TAKE HIM!! you don’t even have to give up anything! JUST TAKE HIM!!
I think he would be a good fit with the Mets. It’s inevitable that Castillo will get injured or be ineffective, and I’m sure Reyes will miss his fair share of games too. Having a steady glove and capable bat (see: 2009) in Ryan would be a nice asset for the Mets.
Theriot, Ryan, Jay and Lynn for Reyes?
How does that make any sense whatsoever for the Mets? Here, I’ll give you a hint: It doesn’t.
A guy can dream…
A guy can dream…
how does luis castillo’s contract make any sense whatsoever for the mets? same answer.
The Mets have a different front office than the one that signed Castillo to that contract.
i’m just saying… “mets” and “sense-making” aren’t exactly synonymous.
They will soon. When Sandy Alderson is running your team, you are in good hands. If anyone can clean up Minaya’s mess and do it quickly, it’s Alderson.
no doubt he’s an upgrade, bu he’s more of a draft-and-develop guy, right? this might take a while.
That is true of Alderson in many cases, but there is also an underlying feeling that he is more hands-off with the idea of trading the Mets’ veterans. Beltran, Reyes, Wright, Bay? Some of these guys could be shipped off in the near future to bolster a mostly unimpressive farm system, thus allowing for that draft-and-develop mindset to take effect.
People have WAY too much faith in Alderson and his stat geeks. The man has not had any real front office success since he was in Oakland in the 90’s. He made one bad decision after another in San Diego, and his ‘chain of command’ was a mess. No one knew who they answered to. He had Kevin Towers answering to his assistant GM, Paul DePodesta on trades. I am a firm believer the game has passed him by.
Alderson already made a move that doesn’t make sense… Collins
Alderson already made a move that doesn’t make sense… Collins
Add in Musial and you gotta deal!
I don’t see Castillo being in the cards for 2B next season. The Mets have had Murphy play 2B in winter ball and scouting reports say his defense is solid. Too many people are quick to dismiss Murphy because it’s not his natural position, but if he can play average to slightly below average defense his bat will make up for it. 2B has been a blackhole in the line-up for us for quite a while. Collins said it’ll be an open competition, but reports I’ve read have higher-ups really valuing Murphy. They also have Tejada (who should start in the minors) and Turner.
Ryan-Theriot is better than Theriot-Schumaker, if for nothing else the stellar defense the former brings over the latter. Ryan isn’t the one that should be out the door here.
Correct. It should be Schumaker that should be on his way out, not Ryan.
Why not just get rid of both
Because Tony LaRussa is in love with Skip.
What could the Cards realistically get for him though? No one’s doubting that he’s fantastic at fielding SS but we all know he needs to start hitting. What would a team be willing to give up for him? I would hate for the Cards to just give him away.
The Pirates will give you Ronny Cedeno, Jeff Clement, and Aaron Pribanic. Basically the same package we got for Jack Wilson.
No thanks. The Pirates took that deal because they’re in rebuilding mode. The Cards are ready to win now and have a player that has major-league ready tools who is cost-controlled and at an affordable price. The more and more I think about it, we’re probably going to end up having to package him up with 1 or 2 more players to get the major-league talent we need.
The Pirates took that deal because they got to get rid of Ian Snell in it.
You asked for a realistic offer and realistically, Ryan is a nice, cheap bench option who doesn’t have much of a market as there is more SS supply than demand atm. That is about the value you will get for him but yes you can shake up the pieces obviously.
I’m not sure what good you think packaging him will do as he just doesn’t have much value to other teams as a starter.
I’m willing to bet a team like the Orioles or the Pirates would see him as a starter. If the Orioles are going to have Cesar Izturis start at short and the Pirates are going to have Ronny Cedeno at short, why not Ryan? He’s cheaper and under team control for a few more years and offers superior defense for clubs that need to limit the runs against them. Also, he’s proven that he can hit and a change of scenery/hitting coach might do the trick.
I don’t necessarlily agree with you saying there’s more SS in supply than in demand because teams can always choose to hold onto their SS rather than trade them away. With Tejada, Uribe and Jeter essentially off the board, the FA market for SS is pretty much non-existent.
The Pirates will give you Ronny Cedeno, Jeff Clement, and Aaron Pribanic. Basically the same package we got for Jack Wilson.
Cards wont trade schumaker because he is La Russa’s boy
they traded chris duncan and he was literally someone’s boy.
I laughed, I cried. I hope Dunk can find his swing again. At least he stopped dipping!
TLR is a great manager . . . but I think he’s turning into a nasty old codger. Could end up hurting the organization in the long run. Not that I mind. I’d truly enjoy watching him fall on his face.
xxx
the cards should trade brendan ryan to the dodgers for cory wade or some replacement value middle reliever and then no one will be able to tell whether or not anything actually happened.
then they should trade six of one for a half-dozen of another.
sorry, but its deals like this (the theriot-ryan deal complex) that frustrate me the most. “activity” is not improvement.
Cory Wade is with Tampa Bay now.
Cory Wade is with Tampa Bay now.
Wade was outrighted during the season and I believe he signed a minor league deal with the mariners recently.
Ryan is better at SS than Theriot for the Redbirds, no doubt. The problem up the middle for StL was Skip Schumaker. His defense was an absolute abomination and he got off to an absolutely abysmal start.
Brendan Ryan is arguably the best defensive SS in all of baseball. If he finds consistent playing time somewhere more people will pick up on this, but he brings next to no offense to the table and often looks completely lost at the plate.
Brendan Ryan will find work there’s no doubt, if only for his stellar defense alone. Problem is, the Cardinals front office doesn’t seem to have a clue. Schumaker’s glove costs us piles and piles of runs, I’d have been more satisfied with bringing Eckstein or even overpaying Renteria than signing Theriot to be a starter.
I don’t think anyone here is doubting that Ryan’s defense is stellar and defense is literally half of the game. However, when you look at the flip-side and see the Cardinal’s lineup it has holes all over the place. We NEED better bats in the lineup. That’s the logic behind getting ride of Ryan. Will the defense get worse and in-turn let up more runs? Yes. But with our great pitching staff we might be able to afford letting up a few more runs in order to get more runs across. I for one hope they’re not done upgrading the middle in-field because as of right now, there’s still not enough bats to plug up the holes in that lineup but I do believe Theriot is a start.
But choosing to go with a Theriot-Schumaker middle infield is weakening both position’s defense. Theriot is just as capable offensively as Schumaker is, but is a vastly superior defender.
100% agree. That’s why I said I hope they’re not done because that combination isn’t a combination you’re going to see on a championship team. I still have my heart set on the O-Dog and then move Schumaker to utility work. There’s not way we’re getting rid of him but he shouldn’t be our starting 2B.
I agree, and I think this would be a definite step in the right direction. I’d really love to see some offense up the middle for the Cards, but I’ve come to face the idea that, as long as Tony it at the helm we’re going to have a guy like Schumaker, like it or not. Having him start consistently is an issue though, not only is Skip’s defense a problem, but we also have his ridiculous lefty-righty splits to contend with. A .541 OPS VS lefties in 2010 is…well Pedro Feliz bad.
I still have positivity about 2011 though, and although he’s not really considered a prospect at this stage I’d like to see a little more of Daniel Descalso at second, hopefully he can make a splash in spring or we pick up a quality guy like O-Dawg to man second, and I’ll be pretty satisfied with the offseason.
Theriot is NOT an upgrade – the Cards have others just like him, eg Greene, Descalso and they could even resign Miles and Theiot would only be a marginal improvement. I have to believe that Mo doesn’t seriously think Theriot is a starter for championship team, but having missed on Tejada, I fear the worst.
When I saw the deals for Uribe and Tejada at first I was upset but then realized those clubs overpaid for those guys. If Mo wants to go with Theriot at short that’s fine with me but he better come up with a player not named Schumaker for 2B because that middle infield is not going to cut it.
“Ryan is better at SS than Theriot for the Redbirds, no doubt”
Ryan Career OPS: .658
Theriot Career OPS: .704
there’s at least a doubt, right?
“Brendan Ryan will find work there’s no doubt, if only for his stellar defense alone”
unfortunately, shortstops have to hit for themselves in the national league.
While I understand the point you’re trying to make, OPS doesn’t really contradict what sound said. He said Ryan was the better SS, which implies that he’s talking about defense. It doesn’t matter what position you play, if you can’t hit you can’t hit, it won’t matter which part of the field you’re on.
And he will find work, there’s this little organization called the Pirates that loves to take in the garbage from everyone else.
“He said Ryan was the better SS, which implies that he’s talking about defense.”
I get your point and I’ll confess to being a little facetious, but you can’t (or you shouldn’t, in my opinion) ignore half the game when assessing a player. Shortstop, in addition to being a defensive position, is a spot in the lineup. No matter what.
Oh I know, you can never ignore the offense. I’m far from a Brendan apologist. I’m a Tigers fan, but I lived in the St. Louis area for about 8 years. One of my friends absolutely loved Ryan and thought he was the greatest player ever. All he is is the Brandon Inge of the Cardinals – overrated, overvalued. A good defenseman with a questionable bat.
That being said, SS always seems to be a position where the offensive contributions are overlooked for defensive ability. There is absolutely no way to justify bringing Brendans AAA bat aboard to any major league club without sending him down and working on his hitting.
And Ryan is a guy that’s been a pretty decent SS with the bat before. You’re taking a gamble on him producing with the bat, but either way he’s going to bring amazing defense. I think the gamble on his bat is a risk worth taking for his glove.
I mean… I agree to some extent. I think my primary issue was with “no doubt”. There’s been a lot of talk that this ryan-for-ryan swap-out is a “no brainer”. Personally, I think (as I posted below) that the players are ridiculously similar in terms of total value, making this very much a “brainer” for me. Probably even a head-scratcher.But I think you make a really good point. The biggest variable in this whole trade is your risk tolerance. Once again, the Cardinals have taken the “be as conservative as you can possibly be” stance.
Yeah, I’ll definitely admit to “no doubt” being a poor choice of words. I guess my line of reasoning (however flawed) was that I’d figure Ryan has a better chance of at least migrating closer towards the mean and improving on his 2010 than Theriot has of putting up a year like his 2008/2009, which is about the best I’d be hoping for.
yeah, i’d agree with that.
yeah, i’d agree with that.
Have you ever watched Ryan Theriot play SS? As a Cubs fan I was anti-Theriot at SS from the start. The guy is an OK 2b, although with very limited offense, or a good, versatile utility guy, but as an everyday SS his lack of range and poor hands get exposed.
One of the other problems with Theriot is that at $3-4 million a year, he’s not worth it. His skill set can be found on many AAA players who will make around the league minimum. He’s a nice bench guy at under a million bucks, but once he started getting raises he’s overpaid.
I might also add that after watching him everyday for several years, he is maddeningly frustrating to watch as a hitter. He doesn’t work counts or take walks, doesn’t hit for power, and last year stopped hitting doubles. He became a .270 hitting singles hitter with a low obp., who plays mediocre defense on his best days. And despite his above average speed, he’s not a good base-stealer. He does run the bases well, but he gets thrown out far too often stealing bases.
The Cardinals could have signed him as a free agent for half or less than half the salary he will cost next year if they had just waited two days until LA non-tendered him. Some might say the Cards would have had to compete with other teams to sign him, and that’s true, but a playoff contender offering a starting SS job to a guy most other teams do not view as a SS would have most likely gotten the deal done. I can’t picture Theriot declining to go sign with Pittsburgh.
yeah… i mean, i agree. i don’t want to say that i don’t like this move… but i don’t understand why it needed to happen.
like i said, my issue is mostly with the “no doubt,” “no-brainer” part of this.
In trade, the Cardinals will be looking for a projectable MI who will be able to help them in 2011 but no later than 2012. I’d bet on a 2B but it could be a SS.
Why is this even a discussion? Ryan is awful.. Put him on the block and see what happens.. Geez anyone is an upgrade over ryan..cards fans are just too comfortable with their team..do whats best for the team…trade him
Also, I think we’re all avoiding the big elephant in the room… Brendan Ryan’s mustache is totally sweet. That thing adds value to this (or any other) team.
i partially take that back… i don’t see him doing much for the yankees.
They would probably make him shave it anyway, a la Jason Giambi and Johnny Damon.
While it’s true that the Cardinals fans all to often get comfortable with their team, it is also true that baseball fans become very short sided when evaluating a player. Ryan’s defense was so good this past year that he still managed to be more valuable than theriot even with his abismal offense. On top of that Ryan has shows moderate success at the plate. I think it’s a safe bet to assume that Ryans 2011 stats will be somewhere north of his 2010 stat, and somewhere south of his 2009 stats. If this is true Ryan has a tremendous amount of value.
I just sayin.. is anyone really gonna miss Brandon Ryan??? I mean come on.. how many times have you heard/seen “runners on base, 2 outs and here come Brandon Ryan” and thought DAMNIT! Heres an auto out… EVERY TIME FOR ME!! Every time. It sucks. Sure hes “fun to watch defensively”, but who cares?? If you made it to the Majors as a short spot your a pretty damn good ball player. Theroit can fill that gap whether he starts or not. Im just happy to see someone new in our infield! Its 100% that the Birds are gonna pick up 1,2 or possible more players this off season and I honestly think its going to be a Steven Drew type player. Hopefully it is Drew, Id take him in a second. Heard rumors of Ludwick possibly making a reunion, hell even Jim Edmonds might play one more year. He would be cheap, comfortable, and a good bench hitter. Good things are on the way and lets get Ryan outta while he still has some value.
The funniest part of all of this to me is that they’re literally substituting one “ryan” for another, first-name-last-name difference aside. Which, to me, perfectly sums up how ridiculously similar they are in terms of total value.I’m not exactly up-to-date on what the net winshare gain/loss is on this, but i’m guessing the cardinals are projected to pick up one, two innings tops with this series of moves.
OMG….thats SOOOOOOOOO FUNNY….someone’s last name could be someone’s first name…OMG HILARIOUS.
this comment adds value. the internet thanks you for your contribution.
If that was sarcasm you’re pretty lame to go to all that effort.
dude, he hit caps lock, which is an A+ for effort in my book. i feel totally “burned” right now.
don’t do anything rash
Theriot is an upgrade over the 2010 Brendan Ryan, but he’s not an upgrade over the 2009 Ryan. Who knows what it means for 2011? Overall, I think it’s a wash. It’s rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
Theriot excuse making about moving to 2nd base affecting his offense last year, is plain hogwash.
i agree with all of this.
If he could play 3rd the combo of his defense and the Indians groundball pitching staff would make the Ryan-Indians a perfect match.
They’ll play Ryan at SS and move Cabrera to 2B before they put Ryan at 3B. His bat isn’t even close to where it needs to be for 3B. That middle infield would look pretty sick though.
I agree but the Tribe need a 3B….Cabrera is a lock at SS and in “B there are Donald/Nix, Phelps and then Kipnis. At 3B there is no one…if the A’s do not tender kouzmanoff he could be a possible place keeper for Chisnehall.
He has always made it public that he does not feel comfortable at third. and there is really no point, his range at SS is his real asset
I don’t hate the deal, but it would’ve made more sense if Theriot was assigned to 2B. I still think the Cardinals will be open to dealing for another SS or 2b if they can get the right deal. I’d much rather see Bartlett at SS. Theriot at 2B
People. Ryan had the range. He has some of the best range I have ever seen. BUT, he is horrible when it comes to fundamentals. Day by day he tries to make the big plays after a stop when he should put it in his back pocket. He does more harm than good when it comes to the fundamentals and trying to make the plays. He liked to frustrate me. lol. Is Skip Schumaker worse though? Absolutely. I would literally drive to the airport to send him out of St. Louis. (And some guy the other day said they could move Schu to RF now and have Theriot, Ryan, and Schu in the lineup. I kind of wanted to punch him in the face.)
You know. I hope the Cardinals do trade Ryan. He could get a good spec or a good piece now. Having said that, I am not sure Theriot is the answer. Hopefully, this team still pursues another middle infielder because I could not stand Schu at 2B for another season. He should be a pinch hitter at best.
People. Ryan had the range. He has some of the best range I have ever seen. BUT, he is horrible when it comes to fundamentals. Day by day he tries to make the big plays after a stop when he should put it in his back pocket. He does more harm than good when it comes to the fundamentals and trying to make the plays. He liked to frustrate me. lol. Is Skip Schumaker worse though? Absolutely. I would literally drive to the airport to send him out of St. Louis. (And some guy the other day said they could move Schu to RF now and have Theriot, Ryan, and Schu in the lineup. I kind of wanted to punch him in the face.)
You know. I hope the Cardinals do trade Ryan. He could get a good spec or a good piece now. Having said that, I am not sure Theriot is the answer. Hopefully, this team still pursues another middle infielder because I could not stand Schu at 2B for another season. He should be a pinch hitter at best.
Please, please, please tell me the Padres will not take on Brendan Ryan and try to sell him as some sort of upgrade. Granted, he has a great glove, but the Padres have more than enough players who can’t hit. Stay away from Brendan Ryan Jed, STAY AWAY.
If I had to pick between an error machine in Desmond or a light-hitting great defense SS in Ryan I have to go with Ryan every time.
Amen to that! If Ryan hits somwhere between his .290/2009 and his .220/2010 he would be a very nice pick up for the Padres. As a Padre fan I konw the are not going to be signing any Tulo type contracts, so they need to go after the little guys with heart and hope for the best.
If I had to pick between an error machine in Desmond or a light-hitting great defense SS in Ryan I have to go with Ryan every time.
Please, please, please tell me the Padres will not take on Brendan Ryan and try to sell him as some sort of upgrade. Granted, he has a great glove, but the Padres have more than enough players who can’t hit. Stay away from Brendan Ryan Jed, STAY AWAY.
Starting shortstops are not hard to come by if you consider Brendan Ryan a starting shortstop.
The cards traded a young power arm for the same player…makes no sense…have you really looked at theriots numbers?
The cards traded a young power arm for the same player…makes no sense…have you really looked at theriots numbers?
There might not be a worse offensive infield than the cards…wow are they bad
do you do mean without the best player in baseball?
best player? not really. maybe best hitter. tulo is the best all around player imo.
Tulo’s not even the best SS in the league let alone best player
I don’t know how you can even argue. Albert Pujols is the best player in baseball. period. the end.
If you played baseball your whole life, you would know. Stop looking at stats and listening to ESPN. It’s funny how you think you’re right every time you post. THE END. LMAO. Or is it GAME SET MATCH? LOL
well then your opinion is wrong, Tulo had a great year last year, but still didn’t post an OPS over .950, which he’s never done. Troy has been much less consistent, with good years in 09 and 10 with a war of 5.7 and 6.4 respectfully but in 08 his WAR was .9, meanwhile Pujols posted his second lowest WAR of his career this year at 7.3, last year he was 8.7 and the year before 9.3.
Tulo’s a good player but he’s not better than Pujols no one is.
Of course Pujols has a higher WAR. The Cardinals lineup is awful. The Rockies lineup isn’t, which makes Tulo’s WAR more impressive.
PS Tulo was hurt in 08.
What the hell does the lineup have to do with WAR?
There might not be a worse offensive infield than the cards…wow are they bad
This is the kind of move that I could see the Mariners making, and the kind of move they need to stop making.
I think the biggest issue here is how much do other teams have to pay for the socks or are they a package deal?
Can we all agree that any “Cardinal’s Rumors” are just that… Rumors. No one was on the Theriot deal or the Tallet deal until it went down. This Front office is very Secretive, The only Deal that was out there for awhile in the past couple of years was the DeRosa one. Because people were calling for it forever. Even the Holliday deal cam on quick, most were linking them to Roy, not Matt at the Time.
Remember when Larry Walker just showed up in St Louis one day?
Dont expect anything with the Red Birds, just react (and overreact when youre part of Red Bird Nation)
I don’t think it’s an overreaction to say that the Cards haven’t done themselves any favors with this whole ordeal. Brendan, in my opinion, has much more upside than Theriot. Better defense, comparable offense over the past two seasons. Theriot is overpaid. Brendan is cheap. Stupid move if Theriot is the starting SS. Most people seem to agree.
I hope this is just smoke and mirrors.
Can we all agree that any “Cardinal’s Rumors” are just that… Rumors. No one was on the Theriot deal or the Tallet deal until it went down. This Front office is very Secretive, The only Deal that was out there for awhile in the past couple of years was the DeRosa one. Because people were calling for it forever. Even the Holliday deal cam on quick, most were linking them to Roy, not Matt at the Time.
Remember when Larry Walker just showed up in St Louis one day?
Dont expect anything with the Red Birds, just react (and overreact when youre part of Red Bird Nation)
What if the Cards put Ryan in a package for JJ Hardy? I know it’s a long shot but that Twins lineup is already STACKED so they could probably do without his bat. Plus they could probably use Ryan’s defense with that lackluster pitching staff.
Only problem with that is the potential loss of a RHP from the bullpen to complete the trade. I’m not ready to lose Motte, Boggs, or McClellan for Hardy
But…with the free agent market for relievers as deep as it is it wouldn’t be hard to find a good replacement. The only one of the three you mentioned I’d be willing to part with is Motte because McClellan is pretty consistent and Boggs has great upside.
What if the Cards put Ryan in a package for JJ Hardy? I know it’s a long shot but that Twins lineup is already STACKED so they could probably do without his bat. Plus they could probably use Ryan’s defense with that lackluster pitching staff.
To me I can’t see the benefit of trading Ryan just to trade Ryan, if the right package comes along sure, but I wouldn’t just write Ryan off. What harm can Ryan do as a backup infielder, if he hits like he did last year you can use him as a later inning defensive sub, if he bounces back then you have a player who’s about a 3.0 WAR player at short and you have theriot as a utility infielder. I certainly hope Mo sees that the wisdom in keeping Ryan.
A little off yopic, but I felt the same way about Gwynn on San Diego. At worst both of them could be great defensive replacements with some speed. I wouldn’t mind at all if Ryan started at short for the Padres next year.