1:55pm: The Astros may make a run at Lee, in the opinion of SI's Jon Heyman (Twitter link). He names the Cubs, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, and Phillies as other surprising suitors.
11:40am: Seven to eight teams have already shown interest in free agent lefty Cliff Lee, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. He says the Yankees and Rangers are still the favorites, but the Phillies, Dodgers, and others have checked in.
As Rosenthal notes, it's questionable as to whether the Phillies or Dodgers could come up with the money for Lee. He's expected to sign for significantly more than $100MM. I imagine the Nationals checked in as well; they do have the money and are known to be interested. While the Red Sox and Angels appear poised to spend their money on position players, we won't count them out until they say so. At any rate, I'm excited to use the Mystery Team category here at MLBTR for the first time this offseason.
Not a suprise. I will be suprised if Lee signs soon. If I had to guess he’s almost certainly going to heavily weigh his options. It’s not going be hard to find a place that feels right to him though, obviously it’s going to come down to a handful of teams.
….And a boatload of money!
He’s going to heavily weigh his options until he’s sure he has the highest offer he’s going to get in hand. He wants to be at a place with a chance to win, but they will have to pay. Highest offer wins.
I know one of those teams has to be the Pirates!
Not to sign, they just want to figure out his value and how it affects the rest of the market, cuz they desperately need a good SP.
If only they would have acquired him for Jason Bay. Dammit Neal.
If only they would have acquired him for Jason Bay. Dammit Neal.
It really comes down to Texas and NYY. The Red Sox are just showing interest to drive up the price and the other teams are just putting on good face for their fans so they can say, “we tried”. IMO
I’ll be interested to see how it plays out. As much as I’d like to see him land w/TEX, in the end I think CC’s influence and a ridiculous offer from the Yankees will win Lee over to the dark side.
After being traded nine hundred times in the last three years, do you think Cliff Lee’s new contract will include a no-trade clause? Please discuss. 😉
I think the only way he gets a no trade clause is if one team is extremely desperate. Alot of teams are weary to give them on big money long term contracts. Maybe some type of limited no trade but IMO extremely unlikely. Most teams as a policy dont give no trade clauses anymore. i dont disagree. History shows most times the team gets screwed.
The Red Sox have only $100m committed to salaries compared to their 2010 payroll. It isn’t like they don’t have any money to spend and if the were to sign Lee they could potentially use one of their other starters (Dice K (and some cash)along with Lars Anderson and Felix Doubont maybe?) to pry loose Adrian Gonzalez and that takes care of the 3rd base issue (shift Youk to 3rd) and provides another #1 starter. This would kind of mirror what the Yankees did with Texiera. Not only would they improve their team but they would keep him away from their fiercest competitor.
Of course they have the money. Dont forget too that Dice k does have a no trade clause which makes things a little sticky. IMO it would take more than that to get AGON. I think you would have to include Kelly, Kalish, Rizzo, maybe even Ellsbury. The Padres already said they would only trade him if they got an offer impossible to refuse. They can ride him out next season and offer arb, which he obviously wont accept, get their two picks and move on. Also if the sox were to pick up Lee and trade for agon your looking at two 100mil plus contracts with big years. Not the Red Sox style. I just dont see it happening.
Dice K is good friends with Ichiro and would probably waive his no trade clause to play with him.
No man is friends with Ichiro.
that package wouldnt get you David Eckstein let alone Adrian Gonzalez…..sorry
I agree. Neither would the names I put out there. Thats just a jumping of point.
Yeah, you guys are probably right. The Red Sox style is more like signing Lugo, Renteria, and Drew to big contracts while the Yankees sign the really top notch players. I included Lars because he is still a fairly high level prospect who is a power hitting first baseman that the Padres could fit into their low payroll. That’s also the reason that I picked Dice K (because the Sox could cover his salary) and Doubont. In my mind, asking the Sox to give up the other guys you mentioned pretty much makes the deal unworkable. The exception I would make to that is Kelly. If the Sox signed Lee, that makes Kelly more expendable.
Rentawreck and Lugo 9mil a yr, Drew 14mil a yr dont really compare to the 20+ mil a yr both Lee and Agon are going to command. Not even comparable.
They would take Rizzo over that “really top notch power hitting first baseman” who has been in the minors how long before a brief and i mean brief stint in the majors this year in which he looked more lost than a deer in headlights.
exactly,the only package worth taking would be Iglesias, Kelly, and some players with promise who can be under team control, play with San Diego’s heart strings and you can come up with a deal, they want talented cost controlled players who they can have for arbitration cost for the next 4 years not some players that are going to make more than Agon at half the talent (thats you Ellsbury).
I guess he could still have a nice career, but after an awful 2009 and so-so 2010, I’m still puzzled that Lars Anderson appears to have so much value in some folks’ minds.
I think some get caught up in the hype and dont pay attention to what the player actually does performance wise. His value is definitely low right now. I dont see him going anywhere for anything significant. Rizzo is the big hyped name now for the Sox. Lets see how he pans out. Not to mention Hoyer has alot of knowledge about these prospects from his time with the Sox front office. He wont be fooled.
The Padres would hang up the phone as soon as they heard Dice-K being a major part of the deal without hearing the Sox out.
San Diego doesnt want Dice K or have any use for Lars Anderson, the only scenario would be they bid on that Japanese guy to be their SS of the future and trade Iglesias, maybe Doubront (he built some value) and Kelly for Gonzalez and then get Cliff Lee, thats spending 2001 Red Sox money right there when they had Pedro and then shelled out for Manny, remember when they did that?
That 2001 spending was by different owners and with Dan Duquette as GM
hey way to take what i said into a different thread, but watch the Red Sox actually sign him, then you will be surprised, I hear Boston is shopping Dice K and Seattle is interested as well as a different team, which means they may have a shot at Lee., you heard it here first.
What did I take into another thread? Dont even think Ive read anything of yours until right this second.
Didn’t the Tigers already “say so”? I’m not saying you should count them out because you never know when a team has that much to spend. But I seem to recall an article that the Tigers front office said they will not pursue Cliff Lee.
I recall that as well. Dombrowski said around the end of Sept. that the Tigers aren’t in on Cliff Lee.
That is a good point.
Tigers aren’t going to pursue Lee. We have Verlander as our ace and Scherzer was incredible when he came back from the minors, Porcello should bounce back and be a solid #3 with the upside of a #1, Phil Coke is going to be our 4th starter this season as well. If we don’t stick with Gallaraga in the rotation, theyd go after an innings eater. Were using that money on a premier bat, and bullpen help.
i like how you forgot your near perfect game pitcher in that argument.
…what? Yes i did mention Galaragga, and only somebody who doesn’t follow the Tigers would say Ragga is a dependable 4 or 5 pitcher. Hence I don’t think he should be in the rotation.
$100MM on a 32 year old? I hope the Dodgers don’t bite.
Why? The Dodgers hand out terrible contracts to pitchers all the time but then they shy away from pitchers who can actually help.
Don’t think they’ve really given a terrible contract to a pitcher since Jason Schmidt 4 years ago…
Wolf, Kuroda and Padilla all worked out relatively well for them. Lilly is yet to be determined.
All of the big money they’ve put into those middle of the rotation starters need to be considered bad contracts.
Like who? Unless it’s a one-year $20 million deal, I fail to see how a one-year deal for a guy along the lines of a Padilla is a “bad” contract. Was Kuroda a bad deal too?
yes, the 5M for Padilla was HORRIBLE!
If he signs with the Yankees, Mrs. Lee can join the Rotary Club.
Knowing Wren, he probably showed some interest.
not unless Lee is winning to get paid in prospects
Either that makes no sense, or you’re somehow making a reference to something Schuerholz did, and not Wren.
ummmm…any chance of you wording that any different?
Orioles.
12 years. $348M.
Done.
He would be 44. How can a team justify paying a 44 year old that kind of money?
He was joking…
Hopefully Blue realized that—quickly.
I’m hoping. You never know. Yesterday someone suggested that the Tigers become a fantasy baseball team, and tried to defend it.
Id love to hear xub defend this haha.
Id love to hear xub defend this haha.
GTFO
how can you justify taking that deal seriously?
It would be silly to think the Mariners won’t check in, even if they ultimately decide they cannot afford to bid competitively. They’re the ones that witnessed his best first-hand all season, despite their inadequacy.
They won’t get him. But they’ll be calling.
No chance in hell Lee would even consider returning to Seattle.
I agree that the Mariners should give him a call. It’s not like they have a small payroll. Lee said he decided he didn’t want to walk anybody this year because Seattle’s LHP friendly big park and speedy fielders made always throwing strikes a good gamble.
Cardinals…trading pujols to the dodgers, then signing Lee
I just don’t see it.
ummm…drugs are bad m’kay?
its easssy mmmm’kkkayyyy
just pass that back up to the front mmmm’kkkayyyy.
“ummm…drugs are bad m’kay?”
Someone should have told that to Jon Heyman.
“ummm…drugs are bad m’kay?”
Someone should have told that to Jon Heyman.
We’ll go with Billingsley, Kershaw, and Ethier won’t be with the Dodgers, because it would take a lot for that to even happen.
Pujols Rasmus Garcia to LAD for Kershaw, Kemp and your top prospect…Cardinals then sign Cliff Lee…BOOM!
Why would the Braves give up Teheran and get nothing back? Pujols only can bring about half the Dodgers prospects, plus some of the major-league roster back to St. Louis. That’s a thing for Rasmus by himself that the Cardinals would want back. Garcia can possibly bring back Kemp, and two top prospects back. Put all them together. The Dodgers would only have Pujols, Rasmus, and Garcia as their team.
Why would the Phillies want him back? They are set with H20 and a reliable #4. I think they are doing it as a PR move. Same with Werth. When either finally signs for an exorbitant amount of money, the Phillies can come back to their fans and say:”It was not that we couldn’t afford (insert name)’s asking price. But we couldn’t justify allocating that amount of resources to what we already consider a position of strength within our organization. If you take a look at our team, there are other areas of concern that need to be addressed. Although our payroll is in the top 5 of major league baseball, our resources are not unlimited. Hard choices have to be made and unfortunately, this is one of them. We feel that going in a different direction is in the best interest of the Philadelphia Phillies. We thank (insert name) for his contributions to our organization and wish him well in the future.”
You’re probably right, but the answer as to why they’d want him back is obvious: they’d have the dirtiest rotation in all of baseball, almost ever. It would really hinge on finding a taker for Blanton. Right field isn’t really an issue and can be solved internally (it’s ok to have somewhat of a weak spot in the lineup).
I like your thinking. It would be the dirtiest rotation in the MLB. But I don’t think anyone will take Blanton unless the Phillies eat a good portion of that salary. They tried it before, and no one was willing to pay Ruben’s asking price.
As for the weak spot in the line-up, it seemed the entire offense was a weak-spot against SF. I am still not sold on Brown being the everyday RF. It’s not Manuel’s style. I can see a platoon (like they originally did with Werth) this season in both RF and LF (Ibanez is not getting any younger).
It wasn’t just San Fran, it was all year. It’s well documented. Brown platooning is what I meant to imply; Francisco would be fine with him in that role. They may have tried to deal Blanton before but they didn’t exactly exercise patience. Eating some of his salary for a year would be a small pill to swallow.
It might just be me, but as long as the Phillies return ask isn’t anything special, 2 yrs / 17MM isn’t all that terrible a contract for a serviceable guy like Joe Blanton. Even if they eat a small amount like 2MM, you’re looking at 2ys / 15MM. That’s not a bad deal.
Joe’s 3yr/24m contract signed last offseason was heavily backloaded – he was only paid $3m last year. He’s got 2/21 left…and that’s a bit much for what he gives
He gets 8.5MM over the next two years. He was paid 1MM in 2010 and received a signing bonus of 6MM. That’s what Cot’s says, and I was assuming that the signing bonus was received up front. Lol
AH gotcha, I think I see where I got confused.
Cot’s spreadsheet of payroll obligations lists Blanton at $10.5m each of the next two, so it looks like the bonus WASN’T paid up front..but in a trade I’d assume that $2m wouldn’t be involved.
It would be crazy if philly got him. Most teams have a hard time finding 1 ace and they’d have 3. It would suck to play them in a 3 game series.
3? You mean 4?
just 3. cole hamels aint no ace
That’s “says you,” right? Because his numbers certainly disagree with you.
he has a career era of 3.53.. he’s susceptible to the long ball, only has 7 career CG and only hit 200 innings twice in his career…
He is a very good pitcher, I won’t take that away from him.. but put his numbers up against true aces and its not even close. . He’s a very solid #2. .
Not to discredit the entirety of his numbers, but if we’re looking at Cole Hamels at this point in time, (delivery tweak, added cutter), he definitely matches up with almost every team’s ace. You can make a case that he isn’t an “elite” pitcher, ala Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, etc., but there’s a difference between being the best in the game, and an ace. How many people would call CC Sabathia a number 2? They had very similar seasons.
CC has had 4 straight years of 230+ innings of sub 3.20 era with 14 complete games in that time frame ( his cg’s have gone down on account of moe )
CC is the prototypical, front of the rotation workhorse. . while the numbers might be similar, its the amount of quality innings that you get from a true ace that makes cole hamels sit out side that category, he barely averaged over 6 innings a start this year.
That first paragraph is actually kind of the point I was making. I think it’s safe to say that Cole Hamels really discovered himself in 2010. I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s NOT an ace because he hasn’t the time to pile up a lot of innings. Although I agree the elite pitchers are going to throw a ton of innings, some guys just don’t have the bodies to accumulate that kind of work. I’d rather get six or seven stellar innings out of my “ace” a start, than have him wear himself down and become ineffective over the course of a season.
That’s just my opinion though, and that doesn’t go very far. I just think that, that “workhorse” mentality is more of an added bonus in the way the game is played today, especially if you have a strong bullpen (ala, Mo.) coming in behind you. I think the bottom line is that several teams would be happy to call Hamels their “ace.”
bottom line is any team happy to call Cole their ace probably wouldn’t go far. its the reason the phillys brought in lee, then doc and oswalt in the first place. Cole just doesn’t stack up to the big boys. THe phils are a win now team, getting in to the playoffs, and facing lincecum, carpenter, hudson, sabathia, lester, price, lee etc. etc etc. he just doesn’t match up to the aces..
So i reiterate a very good pitcher, but not an ace.
Cole had one start in which he only pitched one inning before a long rain delay forced him out. He had another start (the last game of the season) in which he was taken out after 2 scoreless innings because the Phillies had already clinched and the game was meaningless. I think we can all agree that Cole was taken out of those games for reasons beyond his control and can hardly count them against him. Without these outliers, he had 31 starts and 205.1 IP, or 6 and 2/3rds innings per start. Seems like an ace workload to me.
Cole had one start in which he only pitched one inning before a long rain delay forced him out. He had another start (the last game of the season) in which he was taken out after 2 scoreless innings because the Phillies had already clinched and the game was meaningless. I think we can all agree that Cole was taken out of those games for reasons beyond his control and can hardly count them against him. Without these outliers, he had 31 starts and 205.1 IP, or 6 and 2/3rds innings per start. Seems like an ace workload to me.
Too bad they won’t.
They won’t find a taker for Blanton without eating half his salary, which kills the point. The only way they get into the Lee sweepstakes is by moving Hamels, who is about to get very expensive after this season ($9.5M in 2011, then one more year of arbitration before free agency). If Hamels doesn’t want to talk extension, RAJ will look to trade him sooner rather than later. After all, he did it with Cliff Lee.
I feel bad for fans of the Mystery Team. Every year they’re in on almost every free agent but never land a single one of them.
It’s kind of like “Will”. Poor guy gets shot all the time….as in “Shoot at will”
I know. It was pretty bad.
It was worse than you think. Lol
That was worse than “The jerk store called, they’re running out of you!”
What does that matter, you’re their all time best seller!
Ya, well I selpt with your wife!
………His wife’s.. in a coma
You skipped “Who cares? You’re their best seller!”
Why doesn’t anyone talk about the Dodgers converting Jonathan Broxton from a closer to a 5th starter? Let’s face it, Broxton lots his marbles as a closer. But he has good stuff. The Dodgers need another starter maybe Broxton good give them five good innings every fifth game. Then the Dodgers would just need, pitching-wise, an extra quality middle reliever, or two, with Kuo, Belisario and Jensen closing games out. Kershaw, Billingsley, Lily, [Kuroda or Padilla or Garland], and Broxton. This leaves the Dodgers will money to go after a decent left fielder and maybe a one-year rental of Juan Uribe or Ryan Theriot at second base.
I get scared when I see Broxton in there for two innings, five would be just horrible.
Way to be optimistic. But that’s not going to happen. Broxton can’t get through 1 inning and you want him to try and get through 5?
Seriously? The guy has terrible secondary pitches and barely has the endurance to get through a single inning. After 20 pitches, he’s clearly exhausted. Not happening.
He should be moved back into the setup role. Jansen and Kuo have better stuff.
ok, he isnt going to be a starter, but wth are you talking about with terrible secondary stuff? He has one of the best sliders in the game and has 2 FBs. As a closer, its more than enough…
Its not gonna happen. But lost his marbles? Man, some fans are so freaking fickle. One season, and into this year he was the best, and 2 bad months and he sucks?
It was interesting to see the Phillies as one of the teams interested, however the more I think about it, the more it makes sense.. By allowing Werth to walk, the $$ that would have been used to re-sign him would go toward Lee. If Lee was serious about loving to have played in Philly, and is willing to give a slight discount to be on the 4 straight NL East Champs, surely likely to be the NL Favorites to once again go to the World Series.. Can you imagine a starting pitching lineup that would go: (1) Halladay (2) Lee (3) Oswalt (4) Hamels (5) Blanton
A Platoon of Brown/Fransisco and Ibanez/Fransisco will keep a RH in the line-up on a daily basis, plus as much as they say the Phillies are a Left handed batting team, having both Victorino and Rollins as SW makes the difference.. leaving only Utley and Howard as the 2 everyday LH hitters. I am sure the Phillies will also aquire another RH OF as well.. and I like Fransisco, given everyday chance, he’s definately a 20 HR/SB guy..
1) Rollins (ss) – switch hitter
2) Victorino (cf) – switch hitter
3) Utley (2b) – lefty
4) Howard (1b) – lefty
5) Fransisco/Ibanez/Brown (lf/rf) if replacing Brown
6) Fransisco/Ibanez/Brown (lf rf) if replacing Ibanez
7) Polanco (3b) – righty
8) Ruiz (c) – righty
vs LH Pitching, Phillies would have 6 of 8 batters hitting Right-handed
vs RH Pitching, Phillies would have 6 of 8 batters hitting Left-handed
SP) Halladay (RH)
SP) C. Lee (LH)
SP) Oswalt (RH)
SP) Hamels (LH)
SP) Blanton (RH)
That would be the BEST rotation in all of baseball!
Madson and Lidge for the 8th and 9th innings are fine with me..
Re-sign Conteras and get another lefty for the pen and we’ll be fine.
Phillies just raised ticket prices by $5 per seat.. with sellouts everynight, that’s an extra $2.25+ million a year in income… Take off Werth’s salary, Moyer’s and Lidge next year… and its actually feasable that the Phillies can pull this off!
Get over it…Lee is not going to come back to Philly. Philly fans are just like yankee fans. They think every single player would LOVE to be a part of their team more than any other team. I know this because I live in PA and 97.5 the Phanatic is the only sports station to listen to…
Well, to be honesty guys do want to come to Philly now…Why would Roy Halladay want to sign an extension and come to Philly…why would Oswalt waive his NTC to come to Philly…this would never have happened years ago. And oh yea..try 610 WIP if you dont like 97.5.
Wow really? Halladay signed the extension as part of his trade agreement. It has nothing to do with him liking philly because he would have done the same had another contender (sox, yanks, twins, etc) got him in the trade. Same with Oswalt who wanted to go to a contender who was going to pick up his 2nd year option. The phillies needed pitching and were willing to do that so he decided to go there. All these moves were pure business, nothing to do with loving the city,team or fanbase. (since they haven’t had any experience prior to their trades)
You are absolutely wrong. The Phillies and the Red Sox were the only teams Halladay would go to and he said the Phillies were by far his favorite choice
“10:32pm: ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark hears that Halladay would approve a deal to the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox and Angels. The Rays and Dodgers are possibilities, and one person “who knows [Halladay] well” doesn’t think he’d go to the Mets. Check out Stark’s entire article for a detailed breakdown of the “Doc on the block” part two.”
This was on Mlbtraderumors last year…so you’re wrong? unless you have another source.
“10:32pm: ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark hears that Halladay would approve a deal to the Phillies, Yankees, Red Sox and Angels. The Rays and Dodgers are possibilities, and one person “who knows [Halladay] well” doesn’t think he’d go to the Mets. Check out Stark’s entire article for a detailed breakdown of the “Doc on the block” part two.”
This was on Mlbtraderumors last year…so you’re wrong? unless you have another source.
Cliff Lee seemed to love it here when he was playing here. Roy Halladay seemed to love the idea of coming to Philly so much that he signed a below market value extension… he should be making double what CC is. Roy Oswalt came here because he wanted to win and his option was not picked up. Polanco and Ibanez came here because of the club house and Polanco played here before we started winning…
My fault, your right Oswalt didn’t want his option to be exercised but the phillies did increase their buyout for him. But Phillies weren’t the only teams Oswalt was interested in, but they make the best offer to the astros and was on his list so he acepted. Also Halladay like i posted above had a list of team too and the Phillies were one of them. Accepting the extension was part of the trade agreement which he probably would have accepted for every team on his list. Look i know Philly is a great place with a very good club but stop making it seem it’s never about the money (look at planco and Ibanez both getting decent 3 year deals, Placido even said had the tigers offed him arbitration he would have accepted.) or other business factors and simply saying EVERYONE WANTS TO COME PLAY FOR THE PHILLIES CUZ THEY’RE AWEZOME!1!1!!
I’ll check that out because unfortunately 97.5 makes me really not like Philly teams. But as far as Oswalt goes, didnt he say he wanted to go to a winning team? I dont blame him either after the past few years in Houston.
A couple columnists recently have speculated that the Cubs could get in on the bidding but I think they said that more out of ignorance than anything else. The Cubs have other priorities and won’t have the money, it’s just not happening. The Cubs are a mystery, but not this mystery.
Hey you never know, sign cliff lee.
Trade Zambrano and Soriano for Grienke and Soria.
It could happen
Lol, hey Dayton Moore isn’t exactly the brightest bulb when it comes to dealing with major league talent, he might be in on that. But no, it may happen for some other team but not the Cubs.
I agree, the mention of the Cubs in this story is the biggest, fattest red herring ever. With them REDUCING payroll, they’re not going to ADD the biggest salary of this year’s free agent market.
I could only see it if the Ricketts come out and say “hey, we were just kidding about that payroll reduction thing” or if they decided to make an exception for a talent like Lee. They don’t seem to be the type though, I believe they’re pretty highly leveraged after buying the Cubs so I don’t think they could do it if they wanted to. Maybe, but probably not.
would love to have Lee, but there are bigger holes for the Dodgers to fill. Kershaw is a true ace. Bills & Lilly are legit 2&3 guys.
would rather spend money on a left fielder, catcher, and/or second baseman
I’m betting all 30 teams show interest… only 8 have hopes. But still, my bet is it’s still Rangers or yanks.
Yep, I’m going with the Yankees. Rangers are a nice story but since it appears the Yankees have their mind set I don’t think anyone is going to outgun them. Sure, a couple teams could do it if they really wanted to but I think the Yankees have so far been the most open about their desire so I see them pulling it off.
I think if it comes down to money, the Rangers would be willing to overpay Lee more than the Yankees could. The Rangers are devoting all their budget in free agent signings to Lee and need him more than the Yankees do. The Yankees were already loaded with their huge payroll without Lee…and they still lost to the Rangers. That should tell Lee something about which is going to be the younger, hungrier and more positive team to play for for the remainder of his time as a ballplayer. The Yankees clubhouse is a mixture of hired guns taken from other teams and has more than one prima donna in it. The Rangers are a team. Period. These guys really love each other and take up the slack when one of them gets hurt. The Yankees fall apart if a guy like Teixiera gets hurt or if CC isn’t pitching well. The Rangers may have lost to the Giants this year, but they proved they can get to the World Series with Lee and with this year’s experience behind them, they will be competitive for years to come. The Yankees can’t say the same.
I hate to break this to you but Cliff Lee now falls into that “hired gun” category and he will sign where the most money is offered.
I hate to break it to you, but the guy clearly said the rangers will be willing to overspend the yankees.
I am not trying to bash the Rangers as they are an incredible ball club, but they really thrived in a very weak division this year. If the Angels return to form next year I am not certain the Rangers win as many games as they did this year. And talking about the impact of injuries on the Yankees, you really cannot ignore the susceptibility of injury to the Rangers. When healthy that team is incredible but Nelson Cruz, Ian Kinsler and Josh Hamilton seem to miss significant time each year. If they use all of their money to sign Lee they won’t be able to afford any parts for a supporting cast of players. What happens if Hamilton, Cruz and Kinsler go down with injuries? Lee can only pitch every five days and they are going to need to have others to rely on.Of course, you can’t predict injuries and you can’t really plan your spending financially on them. However, 25 million a year consumes a lot more of the budget in Texas than it would in NY. The Yankees can afford to have a contract like that, but the Rangers really can’t as we learned with AROD. I know the ownership has changed and the Rangers truly have a great chance in bringing Lee back, but I think Lee would do them just as much harm as good financially, especially once Cruz, Kinsler and Hamilton start getting significant raises and even reach free agency.
oakland will be tough as well if they get a few bats and devine comes back strong dont overlook them i think its gonna be more than 2 teams though why not the mets they sure have money to and need him with santana getting injured like he has lately
Of course the Rangers also just signed a TV deal that pays them $80 million a year for the next 20 years and an $80 million one time signing bonus in 2011. It’s fun to see other teams be able to financially compete for players the Yankees would have been sure to sign previously.
I must begin by saying that the Rangers are the best team in the AL West and have the best farm system. HOWEVER, the Yankees had a better season than the Rangers despite only having two healthy and reliable starting pitchers. I am not going to argue who the better team was in the postseason because personally I think the Rangers got extremely hot at the right time posting a .400+ BABIP against the Yankees in that series. Anyway, I am sure there is something that Cliff Lee sees in his old team that will want him to come back. They do have a great farm system and they do have great club chemistry. Its impossible to tell though, whether they’ll be able to hold on to stars like Hamilton and Cruz in the future, especially if they give Lee so much money. On top of that, the Rangers starting rotation had a good year but I would still consider it a bad one without Cliff Lee. The Yankees rotation on the other hand already has an ace and believe it or not, the Yankees pitching farm system depth is one of the deepest in baseball, its possible to argue its the best.
As for accusing the Yankees for being a clubhouse of “hired guns”, that is such a ridiculous argument. The Yankees had more homegrown talent on the team in 2010 than any other team in the AL. The Rangers were one of the lowest. Despite that, who cares if a team is made up of guys acquired in free agency or guys from a farm system as long as there is good chemistry and they win.
You were right about one point, the Yankees didn’t prove they can go to the World Series with Lee. But you forgot that just 1 year ago the Yankees won the world series… not only without Lee, but against him. I’m sure Lee remembers the Yankees winning the World Series right in front of his eyes in 2009, and I’m sure he remembers seeing the Rangers lose it in 2010. Both teams have have a huge chance in the future, so I’m sure none of what you just said will have an effect on his decision.
mystery team= Brewers
If it came down to who needs cliff lee the most, the brewers would win that competition easily
The Yankees are obviously the favorite, with Texas behind them and nobody else is in the running.
I wonder if they Angels moved some bad contracts if they can go and make a serious run at Lee and add a bat or two.
i think they can and will get rid of River and one of Napoli/Mathis, but to make this scenario i think they would have to try and trade Abreu (unlikely) and Kazmir (which they want to do, but not sure any team would take on his contract)
Anyone else get the feeling Heyman closed his eyes, threw some darts on a map, and picked the teams closest to them and said they’d make a run at Lee?
The only one I would agree with you on this one would be the Red Sox. If Lackey and Beckett return to their normal selves, then there would be no need for Lee.
I don’t think the Cubs, Astros, or Phillies have the money to give him a deal. If Lee meets with them, it’ll be for a free lunch.
Cubs need to get rid of Fukudome and Big Z. They showed to play at the end of the season, now time to get rid of them. I could see if NYY miss out on Cliff Lee then they could pull off a Zambrano trade. Fukudome I could see Padres. Then if they’re out of a play off hunt, then they will trade A-Go and Ludwick and Blanks to 1B Fuku will take over RF. RF- Fukudome/ BlanksCF- VenableLF- Ludwick
That’s a pretty expensive outfield for the Padres. But I would love to see Big Z crack in New York.
Lol, I don’t think NY wants Z because I think they’ve moved beyond their “Bronx Zoo” phase. The Steinbrothers may go for it but I think Cashman would resist. Maybe, who knows though, if they miss Lee and get desperate Hendry could dangle Z’s late season resurgence and see what happens. They’re one team that could afford him without requiring the Cubs to eat salary.
Z for Joba and Montero!
(before anyone asks, yes, that was sarcasm)
I agree that the Cubs need to get rid of Fukudome. They should eat whatever portion of his contract they need to eat and take whatever they can get in return to free up a little salary and more importantly, alleviate the outfield logjam. Colvin needs to play every day and Fukudome is a really expensive fourth outfielder who really doesn’t hit that much (after June, anyway).
I don’t agree about Zambrano, however. He is vastly overpaid and a bit of a headcase, but all the reasons you would want to get rid of him are all the reasons you’re going to have to send a bushel-full of cash along with him. Not only would you be paying most of his salary anyway, but it would exacerbate the problem the Cubs already have in the starting rotation. With Zambrano gone, you’d be looking at a rotation of Dempster as your #1, Randy Wells #2, Gorzellany #3, Carlos Silva #4 and a rookie #5.
All of those should be “eep!” moments. Dempster was alright but he is definitely not a #1. Wells was such a catastrophy that one has to wonder if it was just a sophomore slump or if he really is that bad. At this point his performance is that of a #4 or #5 at best. Gorzellany did a nice job, and Silva had a nice first half before some injuries and a complete implosion. Given his recent history, unfortunately, the second-half Silva is probably closer to what can be expected than the first-half Silva, so he’s a back-end guy at best as well. That’s not how you win baseball games. And there’s also the fact that Zambrano has a full no-trade clause that he said he will not waive.
If the Cubs want to go full-on rebuild mode–which I have seen no evidence of from their offseason (comments) so far–then maybe, but the reality is that they don’t have a ton of great starting pitching prospects sitting around in the minors and they don’t have a lot of great trade chips at the majors, so they’ll probably just have to tread water until some of these contracts come off the books and they have the flexibility to bring in some better players — which unfortunately is looking like 2012 at the earliest. By that time, hopefully some of the talent they actually do have in the minors has developed and is ready to contribute and a few decent free agent pickups can at least make the team solid.
Why would Lee even sign with the Phils? He had to play on the Mariners for half the year because of them, not to mention he was traded for peanuts on the dollar, not a chance he goes back to them
He’s got plenty of reasons to not sign with the Phillies, but what he was traded for probably isn’t one of them.
If you consider yourself one of the best pitchers in baseball, and you were traded for minor leaguers (who end up being demoted) don’t think for a second that doesn’t affect your pride.
I’ve heard plenty of players say they were rassed or did the rassing of players who were traded for crummy returns, especially minor leaguers . .
How long do you think until we see some of the major free agents signing or at least whispers of contract details? Are these going to be early shots or last minute scoops?
hope they dont all wait till last minute its annoying to put them on the team in 2k games kinda a selfish though but it gets boring
Haha, I know. I play THE SHOW though, game is awesome. I’ll end up getting 2011 and working with that as opposed to messing with the 2010 game. I’m ready for some baseball already, don’t really care about any other sport lol :).
If the Red Sox made a bid for Lee its because of only 3 reasons: 1) They really believe they can move Matsuzaka. 2) To drive the price up for the yanks which, despite what people think, makes no sense if the yanks primary competition is the Rangers. 3) The media says they did.Really the yanks have and will devote more resources than any other team towards making sure the team is championship caliber. Driving up the price tag for a team that spends what the yanks spend… yeah, like the yanks have a solid budget.
Yeah, Im not really sure I buy the whole “driving up the price” idea. It sounds smart short term. But what about next year when there is a Free Agent the Red Sox do want and he is saying “Well Cliff Lee got 6/130, so I deserve at least that” If teams are really doing that, it is basically hurting every team besides the Yankees. Because the next guy that’s comparable is always going to want more.
I think it’s time for the Yankees to start really investing in the best international talent…this free agent stuff for guys who are middle aged or old for atheletes is a very dangerous way to go…they need to get creative…If they want to lessen the financial impact and injury risk of bringing back Rivera Jeter and Pettitte plus getting an old Lee…they might want to pay everyone money past their playing time so the anual payment is lessen…then really scout young international talent so that while they pay off those gone players they’ll have cheap young talent…like giving Cliff Lee 5 years 20 mill to play but 10 years 6 mill that he could collect in Texas or Arkansa if he wants to avoid N.Y. state tax…
Why would the Astros bid for Lee, it would be nice to have him but he doesn’t really fit the plans that the Astros seem to have. Why waste 20m+ per year for Cliff Lee when upgrading the offense should be the first priority.
Then the Astros would have 2 Lee’s making around 40 million combined… not a good idea if you ask me
And they’re both C. Lee. They could switch jerseys from time to time, that would be pretty cool.
Pujols and Capenter for Hanson, Freeman, and Teheran?
Braves sign Crawford
Yankees sign Lee, Jeter, Mo, Petitte and Vlad or Dunn
Sox sign Werth and move Ellsbury, Anderson and some other parts for Adrian Gonzalez
Blue Jays sign Manny
Rangers sign Berkman
Angels sign Beltre, Fuentes, Pavano
Mets sign Millwood, Corriea, Harden
Nationals sign Vazquez, Webb, Hoffman
I would think that TX tries to resign Vlad, even though his PS numbers weren’t that great. I just can’t picture that guy in NY, just would look funny in pinstripes. That’s more of a feeling than factual of course, but still…no one else thinks that would be weird?
“Pujols and carpenter for hanson, Freeman, and Teheran? Braves sign Crawford”
Let’s just say, I don’t think the Braves are looking to add 50mm to the payroll for next season. We’ll leave it at that.
Pujols 15 mil + Carpenter 15 mil + Crawford @ 15 mil
Plus I was assuming D Lowe got moved, Lee/Glaus salary is gone, no Fransworth/Anikel…
I really saw this as a plus 25 million move, not 50, but I see what you are saying.
Gotcha, Albert and Carp are a combined 31 and I was figuring Crawford a little closer to 20 than to 15. Lee was only 2 months. They have some money freed up but this scenario seems a little dreamy. However Crawford would be a good fit for the Braves.
A Lee/Weaver/Haren rotation looks pretty good. Besides the Rangers and Yankees (maybe Philly) most of these teams have more pressing issues that need to be addressed first imo.
dodgers are making a run for lee WWOOOWWW Really frank must be on crack how does he want to sign outfielder get a player at 3rd and someone at 2nd it would be nice to get lee.. the rotation would be Kershaw, Lee, Bills, Lilly and padilla cuz dodger wont be able to sign kuroda and padilla is cheaper the lineup would be..furcal, uribe, ethier,dunn, kemp, gibbons, barajas,and cantu that would be nice if frank sells one of his houses to make up the extra money
I couldn’t imagine the Astros making a real spirited run at Lee. To me, that’s absurd. We won’t have the offense to compete for another two or three years at BEST, and we’re talking about a Type A? Someone help me make sense of this.
Well, the Astros pick is protected so being a Type A doesn’t matter. Beyond that I agree with your assessment: assuming it was accurate that they had any interest in Lee at all, I don’t think it is serious.
Right… I realize that the pick is protected. I just meant Type A as in caliber, not as in the ramifications of being a Type A. It just startled me to see the Astros pop up anywhere near Cliff Lee’s name. I’m breathing much better now.
he will be in pittsburgh not questions ask..
A layover between Texas and New York? I would think he could get a non-stop flight.
stop it with these comments
Sorry for having a sense of humor. I doubt the guy really thinks Cliff Lee will be in Pittsburgh, sorry I ruined your day.
its ok
Really, there shouldn’t be a team listed who at least doesn’t inquire on Lee. Due diligence.
Boston is going to sign Cliff Lee, they are going to give him a no trade clause and Dice K is on the block and there is speculation Seattle is very interested as well as another team, it could be a number of west coast Japanese friendly teams, the Dodgers for one, but Seattle is the most serious, they checked in on Werth and dont like the more than Jason Bay figure thrown back at them, Beltre discussions are so far positive, just working out years and he wants to hear from the Angels who havent reached out with a serious proposal yet
another rumor is San Diego called Boston and wanted a list of prospects to choose from and to see where they are on a trade.
Also interesting is Boston has had a meeting to discuss what to bid on the young Japanese infielder
Didn’t Lee say that he was sort of happy in an odd sense that the Phillies got beat in the playoffs? Not happy for the players but happy since they were the team that dealt him. I could see him going back but with no type of discount. If the Phiten’s want him they’re going to have to pony up, none of this discount to contend and make history rubish.
he’s gonna sign with the yankees i don’t see him anywhere else
Agreed. It’ll be an upset if someone other than the Yankees get him just because of the fact that they’ve made it known he’s their top priority. They were going to give up Montero for him, why wouldn’t they give up something they have more of (money) to get him. Others could afford him but I don’t think the Yankees are going to take no for an answer.
If McCourts settle, maybe they can offer Cliff Lee 100 Bucks and 5 of Jamie’s houses….
I am a Yankee fan who doesn’t want cliff lee, the money should be spread around elsewhere. I could see the headlines now, Lee loses world series in Philly, then in Texas, then in NY
As much as I want him to, he won’t join the ‘Stros… I don’t think ANYONE wants to join us! HAHA!
As a Phil’s fan I can honestly say I really dont want Cliff Lee. Not for the money and years he will require. His track record of nagging injuries worries me. I think he may pay off now, but down the road the team that is stuck with him will want to reconsider their decision. Plus I am not a fan of him never pitching on 3 days rest in the playoffs.