The Pirates fired manager John Russell today, according to a press release. GM Neal Huntington offered praise for Russell but added, "We decided that new leadership in the clubhouse would give us the best opportunity to move this major league team forward."
Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette wrote Sunday that Russell was expected to be fired as early as today. Russell was hired to manage the Pirates after the '07 season. His teams posted a 186-299 record.
Bobby Valentine is coming
Do what? Valentine would never take that job.
If he understands whats about to happen in the burgh he will. Vote For Pedro and the Bucs in 2012!!!
Bobby Meacham, maybe…Bobby Valentine, no.
In other news, the Pirates trade for Kenshin Kawakami and sign Russ Ortiz in order to further their effort to stock their pitching staff with 5+ ERA’s.
Kawakami has a career ERA of 4.32.
And an ERA this year of 5.15.
Too bad was not somebody announcing Huntington had been fired alongside Russell. Non-brilliance would for sure be what he has brought them with his moves for Bay, nady, then non tendering Capps. What else does he have to do to show the people of Pittsburgh he is inept? Lots of GM’s can pick decent draftees when the get a top 5 selection every single year.
so they should have held on to Bay and Nady so they could have won 65, and lost them a year later to free agency?
Non-tendering Capps is arguably the worst move of NH’s tenure, and when your worst move is to let go of a closer and replace him with someone who you can trade for McDonald and Lambo, then it’s going pretty well.
If you’re gonna comment on the Pirates, at least know what you’re talking about.
You move them still, just get something back in exchange. Exactly how well did that Bay trade work out? Moss? Hansen? How about the prize guys the Dodgers chipped in? LaRoche? Morris? Nice haul there wasn’t it?
Point was the Pirates gave away 1 1/2 seasons of Bay for a handful of guys, headlined by Craig Hansen and Youngster Morris. None of which ever amounted to anything, though still think Morris is around.
Not sure if would be mentioning Ohlendorf as the 2nd best pitchers in a rotation (any) either as regards the other post above. Maybe he truly is a genius, but his career stats say otherwise as regards to his pitching and 2010 numbers even speak louder.
yeah the Bay trade didnt quite work out. Not many panned that trade at the time, though. Andy LaRoche had one solid year and then flamed out… Morris still has a chance to get value back. So, he had one trade that didn’t quite go where it could have?
So fire him? Because every other GM hits homeruns on trades? Think Frank Wren would like Jeff Locke back for Nate McLouth? Think Colletti might want McDonald back?
Sure they gave away one and a half season of Bay, but we weren’t going to compete the next season, either. We acquired players with a lot of potential, especially LaRoche and Morris. Morris was a first round pick of the Dodgers. But they were both still prospects. A prospect is a prospect because they haven’t proven anything in the bigs. Some prospects simply don’t pan out. It happens in every organization. But Morris had a stellar year this year in the minors. He has become one of the best pitching prospect in the Pirates organization, even after a dismal 2009 season.
Ohlendorf has been the Pirates most consistent pitcher since being acquired from the Yanks. His ERA in 2009 was 3.92, with a solid WHIP of 1.23. He has been injured for some of 2010 and still managed to keep a 4.07 ERA and a 1.38 WHIP. Ohlendorf has been very consistent since 2009 and his numbers indicate these statistics should continue.
Right, we weren’t going to win with Bay, so we might as well lose without him.
Go buy a bobblehead.
I’m surprised the people of Pittsburgh can even spell “inept” with analysis like that. I wouldn’t trade Jeff Karstens for Xavier Nady straight up – much less throw in Tabata and Ohlendorf. Dumping Capps allowed the Pirates to sign Dotel, which brought back McDonald and Lambo. Another great deal for the Bucs. The book is still open on the Bay trade as well, with Morris putting up a solid year in the minors.
haha wow, you dont even deserve a response
Have you checked the list of who they have gotten rid of versus who they have gotten? All of those aging vets who wouldn’t start on most teams and had no future in Pittsburgh were traded for solid prospects at a much more reasonable price. Huntington has reloaded the farm system that had been awful under Littlefield with actual talent and this team has a great future. Not to mention how many great draft picks and international signings have gone down under Neal, Frank, and Bob.
No you’re right…LaRoche only had a 100 RBI season this year, Aramis Ramirez doesn’t start, and neither does Jason Bay. You’re absolutely right….no one starts on any major league team that’s been traded.
Get up off your knees and wipe your mouth off.
I wonder if they’ll just save this press release as a Word document and resend it when they fire the new manager in three years.
I think this was a good move. I don’t think it was all JR’s fault in the 3 years, but the lack of fundamentals and mind boggling in-game decisions made it hard to imagine him coming back next year. They need someone that can light a fire under these guys, but more than likely they will bring in another ‘yes’ man. Not sure anyone that has previous managing experience in the majors would want to come here, but weirder things have happened.
How about ownership spending some money to put a quality product on the field? This team is never going to go anywhere with their MLB staff chock full of Triple-A to Quadruple-A players, and their Triple-A system full of Double-A players. Any manager would look inept with a system like that in place.
They have outspent every other MLB team on the draft since 2008 and have spend heavily on the internation FA market. I know, shocking right. They are spending money where they should be spending it.
They should be spending money to WIN, period, no matter where it is. It’s fine and dandy to spend money on draft picks, but this team hasn’t had a winning season since Jim Leyland in 1992!
Every player that transforms into a star is traded away for more minor leaguers and then it continues in the same cycle. It’s a scam and Pittsburgh fans should boycott their team until they put a winning team on the field.
Works for me. I’m an Astros fan and I love going to Pittsburgh for games. The tickets are cheap, good seats are plentiful, and it’s the prettiest park in all of Major League Baseball.
Go ahead – stay away.
Tickets are cheap and plentiful because they put a crappy product on the field. I’m awfully happy they have a pretty field, but it means diddly-squat if their team can’t win 1/3 of their games.
Actually Smitty’s right…is it just a coincidence that the yanks sell 4 times as many tickets and 4 times as much payroll? NOO! Just go to the games and they will spend the money! Besides, the foods good anyway.
Yeah, that Pirates front-office sure spends the money, as they are being investigated as one of the few teams in baseball to turn a profit and report a loss to the MLB so they can get a free few million from them. Sounds to me like a little bit of laundering going on…hmmmm
Yes, lets boycott the team and see if that makes them spend MORE money. Solid plan. The team is spending the money where it needs to be spent right now. Going out and throwing money at a few free agent stop-gaps to place on the major league roster isn’t going to turn the team into a winner, no matter how much it will appease some of the fans. See Matt Morris, Jeromy Burnitz, Sean Casey, etc. That’s exactly how the Pirates got into this mess in the first place. The new front office is doing this the right way – it’s just not going to happen overnight.
You have to spend money to make money — the common rule of business, my friend. The Pirates aren’t going to make money or put a quality product on the field if they aren’t willing to go out and sign some decent free agents. You have to have veteran leadership on the team to accompany quality young players. For examples, see the Tampa Bay Rays and this year with the Cincinnati Reds.
Almost 20 years of losing seasons…what they are doing ISN’T right, because they’ve been doing the same exact thing for that period of time! Prospects don’t mean ANYTHING until they translate into Major League players. Right now, NONE of their prospects have translated into that. Put a lot of those players on 95% of the major league teams, and they are bench players at the best!
I agree, spend money, but be smart about it. There’s nothing wrong with spending a few extra bucks and getting free agents that are going to help your team. Sean Casey, Jeromy Burnitz, and Matt Morris aren’t very good examples….those are Type B free agents or lower for that given time.
You feel that this current front office is doing things the exact same way that Dave Littlefield and Cam Bonifay did things? Really? If that’s what you think, you haven’t been paying attention. Throwing money at the problem is not a solution. They have to build a team worth paying for first – which is exactly what they are doing. Not spending money to keep a core of Nate McLouth, Jack Wilson and Ian Snell together.
Nate McLouth, Jack Wilson, and Ian Snell were all developed within the Pirates organization. None of these guys were impact players. They weren’t awful, but not great, and not players you would say, “This guy helped us get to the playoffs!”
Maybe you’re not getting what I am saying, or perhaps you really don’t want to…I’m not sure. But what you need are a few Type-A free agents on your team to propel the youth into a winning nature. It may take a little extra money to get them into a Pirate uniform, but you convince them that your losing days are behind. Once one player signs, another player will fall in suit.
Where do you think the Reds would’ve been without Scott Rolen, Orlando Cabrera, Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, and Ramon Hernandez? It didn’t take a lot to sign or trade for them.
The front office management of the Pirates should take other teams as examples and pattern themselves in that manner. I’m not saying they are doing anything wrong by signing draft picks or trading for minor leaguers, but they don’t really matter until they become Major League ready, and even then they have to prove themselves.
So if the Pirates had gone out and signed a Manny Ramirez last offseason, where do you think they would have finished this year?
Manny Ramirez is a 40-year old Outfielder. Do you REALLY think of all free agent veterans like this?
What would be wrong in signing a guy like Carl Crawford to play the outfield with Milledge and McCutcheon? Why not go after Adam Dunn to play 1st base? Not the best defensively, but you know what you’re gonna get from him (40 homers/100 RBIs). Add Carl Pavano to your rotation — big innings eater and veteran presence could help bolster the staff (in the same essence Arroyo’s has with Cincinnati).
There are plenty of ways to get things done and compete in the meantime without having to throw away your farm system in the process.
So you feel that Adam Dunn would have turned this 105 loss team into a contender? Like I said – Signing free agents is all well and good once you have a core built up…otherwise, you’re just wasting your money to bring in a good player. One good player isn’t going to turn a team into a winner. See Aramis Ramirez or Jason Bay. Spend the money in the draft, build up the farm system and develop a core of young, cheap, controllable talent that you can put out on the field – THEN go out and sign a free agent or two to put the team over the top. Not the other way around.
I never said 1 good player, did I? You have to bring in a combination of veterans with the young talent to mesh and create a winning team.
Just 1 or 2 veterans won’t cut it, dude, sorry. I understand where you’re coming from, but that’s not going to create a winning team. With that strategy, you’ll go along the same path the Reds were on at one point…CONSTANT rebuilding mode. It will be a continuous cycle and never end.
Yes, clearly the Pirates need to be more like the Mets.
How many years in a row did the Mets have a winning team?
This is my point. You’re just trying to build a team that can break .500. Your goal is mediocrity.
Your point doesn’t make sense. I’m not sure how you can hurt a team by signing a few quality, All-Star, proven veterans to the roster. You’re not trading away your young players, and you’re enabling yourself to also win at any given time. That’s the GOAL, is to win NOW and in the future. You’re never going to win NOW if your goal is always “the future.” When does “the future” become “the present?” You have to make additions to the team that is going to make an impact or the team will remain BELOW mediocrity for a looooong time. There’s no point in waiting another 5-6 years “in hope” of a winning team on a bunch of prospects (who may never pan-out) when you can bring in some really good free agents that can help propel these younger guys to victory and success.
I know that concept is difficult for you to understand…okay, I get it. But it’s how the majority of other teams are winning right now and have been for a long time. The only teams stuck in 20 year funks are the teams that DON’T get it.
Because bringing in a few high priced, quality, All-Star veterans isn’t going to suddenly turn the team into a winner. It’s just going to cost money that could have been spent more wisely in the draft or international free agency. Once those young and cheap players break in and establish themselves on the major league roster – which we just finally caught our first glimpse of this year, THEN go out and sign some free agents to fill the holes.
You can’t spend money to fill holes when all you have is holes, unless your goal is to win 83 games once every three years.
Your “solution” is exactly why the Pirates have failed so miserably the past 18 years. Now that they are finally doing things the right way – you want to go back to the same old routine that got us here in the first place? Thanks but no thanks.
You just said exactly what I have been saying, but then turned around and said you don’t do it because the talent isn’t there yet. If you caught the first glimpse of it this year, then isn’t it there? Won’t it be there next year?
My “solution” is EXACTLY that, and I agree with you. Sign the free agents when the talent is there. But even you yourself just said it’s there with the “caught our first glimpse” comment. So when is the “right time” for you? I doubt you even know.
Wow. You really have a lot to learn about how to build a team. Thinking the Buccos can go out and buy up Carl Crawford and Adam Dunn is pretty much insane. And NONE or the prospects are legit Major Leaguers? I don’t know when the last time you followed this team was, but I suppose you have never heard of Andrew McCutchen, Pedro Alvarez, or Jose Tabata?
I do? Besides McCutcheon…who would be starting every day for any other major league team, or be on the bench for that matter? The fact that you made that comment shows to me that you’ve been stuck behind fogged glass for so long that you don’t know what a good competitive team looks like.
Besides, those were just mentions on who could potentially help this team on the free agent market with the current roster. But the team has to be willing to spend some money on the free agent market, which as most have expressed here, they are not willing to do that. This will result in the Pirates having a decent amount of losing seasons ahead of them for the near future.
nvm then
Easy there trigger! Before you start calling people names…I’m not a Pirate fan! LOL I also don’t know who in the hell your Double-A manager is, nor do I really give two greasy monkey turds about how you spell “McCutchen.”
What do you call McCutchen, Walker, Alvarez, and Tabata?
I just said “McCutchen” could be an everyday player any other ball club. The other 3, would be lucky to crack the bench. Well…maybe the Cubs, but I digress.
But you’re neglecting the fundamental problem that has kept the Pirates from any winning season since 1992, and that is poor management.
Poor management is what made the team what it is now and forced them to rebuild the right way(which they’re doing now as well.) Everyone who posts their wisea$$ responses to every Pirates’ related article on here that criticizes the team or calls for new ownership hasn’t been paying attention the last few years. After the 2007 season, the old regime of GM Dave Littlefield and many of his personnel were fired, and Frank Coonelly and Neal Huntington were hired. So, in other words, the poor management decisions like the Aramis Ramirez trade with the Cubs that was made under the Littlefield regime–which everyone and their mother loves to bring up–aren’t really indicative of this team anymore.
But the years of mismanagement affected the franchise, so Coonelly and Huntington had their work cut out for them. 3 years later and the the one manager they had(Russell)is gone, but I think they’ve had plenty of progress in many other ways. In order to rebuild the franchise, they *had* to tear down much of what was there when they started, and that included the trading of players like Bay, Nady, McLouth, Sanchez, and LaRoche to get talent back to restock the barren minor league system. Of those, only Bay was in any way a “star”–the rest were decent major league regulars, and that is all. And while the Bay trade return wasn’t great, they more than made up for that trade by getting the better of many other teams in other trades(the Dotel trade with the Dodgers and the Nady trade being the best examples).
So, no–it’s not a scam. Signing a bunch of middling free agents won’t help, unless those free agents are then traded for prospects, which will help. Big name free agents won’t come to Pittsburgh until they see that the team has turned some corner toward respectability, and that will have to come after several seasons of struggle, unfortunately.
But it’s happening, slowly. And they’re doing it the right way.
And again, you’re not getting it…
Fans will not attend games until they see a winning team. You are going to need to sign free agent players that will be able to make an impact, not “middling” as you so eloquently put it. You can’t solely lay your hopes and dreams on nothing but younger players, because it simply won’t happen. You have to have some veteran leadership added to the pack to create a winning environment. I’d be willing to bet you can’t name the teams off on one hand who have won a World Series within the past 20 years who have had nothing but young players on it.
You’re giving this organization excuses, of which with almost 20 straight losing seasons, they should not have.
…but you have to build up the core of young players before you go out and pick up those veteran, free agent pieces. Why is that such a difficult concept for some? THAT’S what Bonifay and Littlefield did. Forget the draft, forget the farm system, ignore the international market – lets just go get some veteran presence in our lineup, and maybe we can break .500. That’s not a rebuilding plan.
Nah, you still don’t get it. You have to have good quality veterans on a team who can lead by example to these young players. Or else, you’re going to have what the Pirates have had for the last 20 years.
You’re actually Dave Littlefield, aren’t you?
You gave me Sean Casey and Jeromy Burnitz as examples for good quality veterans. Enough said.
Obviously this team losing for so long has warped your mind.
Imagine for a minute you’re free agent-to-be Carl Crawford, Cliff Lee, Jayson Werth, or Adrian Beltre. Would you want to play for a team that just lost 105 games this past season? Unless the Pirates kicked in an extra $5M per season over market value would any of these guys even consider signing w/ Pittsburgh. The Pirates don’t have the luxury of overspending on free agents like Boston, Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles do. The Pirates need to develop talent through their minor league system (Pedro Alvarez, Rudy Owens, Tony Sanchez), be aggressive in the international market (Luis Heredia, Starling Marte) trade for major league ready talent that’s controllable for years to come (James McDonald and Joel Hanrahan) and make wise decisions on mid-tier free agents until they’re competitive enough to lure the top-tier free agents to fill in any holes.
I agree with you. I gave examples of some of the Reds players mentioned above in a similar debate. The point is, you DON’T have to pay an arm and a leg for decent talent on the free-agent market…if you know what you’re getting.
When the talent is there, yes…go out and sign some free agents to fill the gaps and propel this team further. I have been saying this all along, but have been bombarded by people calling old GM names…I honestly don’t get it.
ok
Again, not a Pirates fan. Not sure really where you got this in the process of me telling everyone much the Pirates blow, but yeah….not a fan.
I don’t think anyone is saying ownership has to go the other way and be in the top 3 in spending or to throw foolish money at guys. But you are right, they need to put more money on the field and mix in solid signings. It’s a shame.
Please get a RA-RA manager who has post season experience under his belt! AKA sign Eric Wedge
I wonder who else in the coaching staff will or will not be back next season and who will make the decisions on the coaches for next season. Hopefully the Pirates front office will allow the new manager to make those decisions.
I think Neal got a stay of execution for the time being. There is no good reason why he can’t acquire major league ready talent for next season. The payroll will be in the mid $30M range and there are some intriguing minor leaguers that can be used for trade bait that won’t significantly deplete the farm system. Another interesting offseason awaits!
Eric Wedge couldn’t win with a talented Cleveland team, so what is he going to do with a young Pirates team. The Pirates need to have Walbeck the 2A Manager of the Year and league champion manage the club. Walbeck has the fire to drive the young players on our team. Also since he has coached the majority of our prospects, when they make it to the big league they will have repsect for Walbeck, and they will know how to win under his regime.
Do you think the Pirates fired Walbeck last week so he could manage the big league club? Walbeck had a sub .500 record as a minor league manager until this season. The players on the field had more to do with their success this season than anything the manager has done. A lot of the guys on this year’s AA squad were on the A team that won last year’s title.
Agreed. What people outside of Pittsburgh (and about 75% of the folks IN Pittsburgh) fail to realize is that Walbeck nearly got fired a year before for having a record almost opposite of the one they had this season. He also had the best rotation in all of AA with Rudy Owens, Justin Wilson, Bryan Morris, and Jeff Locke all pitching well. Billy Martin could’ve picked the lineups out of a hat every night and won 2 out of 3 games with that rotation.
This entire thread is the same conversation we’ve been having since Gene Lamont, Lloyd McLendon,Pete Mackonin, Jim Tracy,and now John Russell.
It all comes back to the Nutting family and the way they choose to run this family business.
Everybody who bashes the Nuttings doesn’t seem to understand that they took over in 2007. Since then, they have fired Dave Littlefield, Hired Coonelly and Huntington, built the new Dominican facility, and given mgmt more money than ever before to spend on amateur talent..I don’t see how it’s they’re fault.
I wrote this in the forums and posted it here for everyone else …..They need somebody that won’t come in and assume that just because we have flashy young talent, that they know how to play baseball. We need someone that will teach these guys what’s missing in each of their respective games and squeeze these fringe players into more productive players. They need to teach the pitching staff to not be so hesitant because your offense will fail you and you feel the added pressure of having to pitch a perfect game. Basically we need someone that can come in and give these guys excellent advice on how to be an elite major league baseball player. Once these kids grow and are groomed to become what we expect them to this team will be a little like the break out Rays team if they can continue to build a wealth of youth and talent through the draft like Tampa has. The bottom line is let Neil keep stocking the trout pond and get me a wise veteran former player manager that can get what he needs to win out of the talent that will pass through the system to him. Carlton Fisk interested in coaching? Is Ivan Rodriguez smart enough to be a player/manager? wishful joking thinking on the last one but he would be a good twice a week catcher twice a week pinch hitter in the NL Central. So someone give me a real candidate that would get me excited… like Ryne Sandberg
What about Fredi Gonzalez? I’m sure he’ll have more enticing offers (Chicago, Atlanta), but I think he would be a great manager for the Pirates. I’m kinda lukewarm about Eric Wedge. He didn’t work out in Cleveland like they hoped, but they also traded away some of this best players (i.e. Sabathia)
Thank God.
Tony Pena, come on down!
I recall Joe Torre saying he would come back in the right situation. I think this could be that situation, boys!
If I were a Pirates fan, I’d be hoping to snag Tim Wallach for the managerial position. As a Dodger fan, I hope that doesn’t happen…
Wallach AND Pena both sound good to me. I’d be happy with either one. I’d give Pena the slight edge, though.
This is just an insider’s rumor, but word around the front office claims that the Pirates are looking into voodoo in an effort to re-animate Danny Murtaugh. Keep your fingers crossed.
I would definentely want to get Mathew Gomer as our next manager. Think about it, he is a three time champion and a one time manager of the year.