In a recent chat, Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post Dispatch writes that few appreciate how much turnover could occur if Tony La Russa does not return to the Cardinals next season. Let's see what else he has for us..
- Offering Jake Westbrook arbitration would be a risky move for the Cards as he is virtually guaranteed to receive an increase over this year's $11MM salary. If St. Louis does want to keep the soon-to-be 33-year-old in the fold, Strauss believes that they will open talks before the free agency filing period like they did with Joel Pineiro and and Kyle Lohse. However, the club locked up Pineiro and Lohse with multi-year deals at market or above-market rates, something that they're probably not capable of doing at this time with Westbrook.
- Speaking of starters, it's hard to imagine the Cardinals giving Chris Carpenter similar money to what he makes now if they re-sign Albert Pujols. Carpenter's contract calls for him to earn $15MM next season with a $15MM club option ($1MM buyout) for 2012.
- It's fair to say that Felipe Lopez found himself unmotivated to perform after the Cards acquired Pedro Feliz last month. The infielder struggled at the plate this season, hitting just .231/.310/.340 with seven homers in 425 plate appearances. The club sent Lopez packing yesterday afternoon.
- Strauss expects to see La Russa back in St. Louis unless he hears something that he doesn't like from the ownership or front office.
Westbrook can be offered arb? Is he even a type B FA after missing all of last season.
20 dollars says that if he is not a Cardinal next season, he is an Indian.
100 dollars says he isn’t an indian or a cardinal.
101 dollars says he is and the extra dollar is. One that you owe me. Fair? Seriously, you and I make a bet.
I’m sure the Indians will call him…..but man they are so overloaded with pitchers at the AA, AA, and ML level that I just don’t see where they fit him in.
Now don’t mistake me saying they’re “overloaded” with they are “stacked with great talent”. Simply the number of pitchers they have. For example…
ML: Carmona, Talbot, Masterson, Carrasco, Tomlin
AAA: Huff, Gomez, McAllister, Kluber, Pino
AA: White, Hagadone, De La Cruz, Barnes, Berger, Packer
And that doesn’t include guys like TJ House and others (Pomeranz, etc) who could be pushed to AA pretty quick from High A.
Nor does it include Anthony Reyes who is still on the roster and recoverying from Tommy John surgery (had it summer of 2009).
Honestly….I think the Indians are a better team in 2011 without Westbrook and going with the young guys.
And guys like Barnes and White really deserve a crack at AAA pretty much right away….but due to numbers, could find themselves stuck in AA again. Adding Westbrook just further complicates things…..and really, his replacements have done just as well as what he did in Cleveland this year.
1st of all, you are absolutley right about everything you said.
2nd of all, they are so overloaded that I think you forgot some.
3rd of all, the whole point of signing Westbrook would be as a mentor which in my opinion, is a great role for him. No one would be asking him to win 20 games or strike out 200 batters, it would be for him to mentor Kluber, White, and the rest of the young guys.
If he’s already making an above market $11m, why would he given more from arbitration? And if thats true, he’s sure to take it.
I don’t think anyone has ever gotten a pay cut in arbitration…not sure if it’s even possible under the current CBA.
isn’t 80% paycut the max decline
Arbitration is a rewards system. It rewards players based on their contribution to a team, regardless of what that contribution was. Jake Westbrook is, like all other unranked veterans, an interesting case. He’s had a pretty decent season in 2010, and a better second half with the Cardinals, than his first half with the Indians. So, since he already makes 11MM in 2010, the least the Cardinals could offer him would be 8.8MM.
So even if the Cardinals offered him 8.8MM, it’s very unlikely that they are able to retain Westbrook this way. An arbitor, seeing as though Westbrook has had positive contributions, in some way, shape or form, to the Cardinals, would not reduce his salary by anything, let alone, 20%. Westbrook is also in a position to decline, seeing as he could demand a multi-year deal if he was going to accept a salary of 8.8MM annual. That’s why Jess was saying that it’s rare (and somewhat impossible, albeit rare circumstances) that a player, but especially a veteran player, takes a pay cut in arbitration.
Arbitration is a rewards system. It rewards players based on their contribution to a team, regardless of what that contribution was. Jake Westbrook is, like all other unranked veterans, an interesting case. He’s had a pretty decent season in 2010, and a better second half with the Cardinals, than his first half with the Indians. So, since he already makes 11MM in 2010, the least the Cardinals could offer him would be 8.8MM.
So even if the Cardinals offered him 8.8MM, it’s very unlikely that they are able to retain Westbrook this way. An arbitor, seeing as though Westbrook has had positive contributions, in some way, shape or form, to the Cardinals, would not reduce his salary by anything, let alone, 20%. Westbrook is also in a position to decline, seeing as he could demand a multi-year deal if he was going to accept a salary of 8.8MM annual. That’s why Jess was saying that it’s rare (and somewhat impossible, albeit rare circumstances) that a player, but especially a veteran player, takes a pay cut in arbitration.
Even if Carpenter pitches well next year there is a good chance they won’t pick up his option for 2012 not just because of his age or injury history, but mainly because Pujols is going swallow up a huge portion of their budget.
I doubt Tony returns. The Reds and Astros are loaded with very good young talent. He knows the Cardinals are in a decline. If he leaves now it looks like he was the reason for their success.
The Astros have one of the worst farm systems in the universe. How are they loaded?
The Astros actually don’t have a bad farm system at all. I’m guessing you don’t follow MILB.
The Stros have a bright future in most analysts opinions, don’t know where that guy has been.
Ed wade has done a great job I’m going to check out your site.
I don’t follow the Astros, but I look at Baseball America regularly, and the Astros consistently are ranked in the lower half of MLB. If they have improved good for them, but the term loaded is a bit of an exaggeration.
I don’t follow the Astros, but I look at Baseball America regularly, and the Astros consistently are ranked in the lower half of MLB. If they have improved good for them, but the term loaded is a bit of an exaggeration.
Nah man… The Stros system is improving… For the next few yearst Houston fans get to see a young J.D. Martinez manning LF, instead of albatross Carlos Lee, and they got a good group of young guys all headed by Hunter Pence and Chris Johnson
isn’t martinez a right fielder?
you must be repeating old stuff or maybe just not following all the teams …They actuall have a 19 year old pitcher that is being pushed thru pretty quickly….they have several guys on the team now who has been pushed along really quick this year…don’t know if they are going to be stars but the only way to find out is to let them play…..like Chris Johnson who you probably don’t know anything about.
Astros farm is bad. Reds have a modest payroll. Geez one good season in 16years and now the reds are some juggernaut lol. It should be a fun division for several years( hopefully no longer the worst division in baseball)Although I do agree on something, TLR should go
The Astros, Ferrariman my dear friend, do not have a bad farm system…Not anymore. Ed Wade has done quite a nice job in turning this organization around and I’d be surprised if the Astros can’t compete next season. They also have some of the best young talent in the NL.
For what I know of the Astros farm, most of the impact prospects are further down in the minor and/or not MLB ready( lyles, shields, Austin, etc). Just because their farm isn’t near the bottom 5 anymore doesn’t mean it’s a good farm either
Just because the impact prospect are in the lower levels doesn’t mean its not good, and they do have a couple top 100’s in the higher levels like Lyles and Martinez. I’m not saying its best in Baseball, I’m just saying its pretty good. There are some sleepers I can get in to, but I’m just saying that its much better than it used to be and its actually pretty decent now.
fair enough. i consider “bad” to be just a step under “pretty good” because farm systems are such a subjective thing to measure with such a low success rate on prospects, injuries, moving them up too soon, etc etc.
for fun, whats your opinion on STL’s farm. i think its made a lot of strides these past 2 seasons bringing in impact caliber players like Miller/cox/jenkins along with some high upside talent like longmire/taveras/hill jr/ stanley/etc along with some “safe picks” like lynn/swagerty/blair/etc.
Well you know what, it may not have as much “quantity” of prospects which is a bad way that people judge minor league systems, but they had maybe the 2nd best draft this year and have some really good prospects otherwise. Miller is obviously #1, Cox, Jenkins, Sanchez, Jones, Lynn, Swagerty, Jermaine Curtis, and Dan Binona are some guys I really like. Cody Stanley is interesting. I think he’s someone to keep an eye on. Another guy I really, really like us Seth Blair who has a very good curveball and has good command of his fastball. Niko Vasquez and Ryan Jackson are two others who I also like.
So I don’t want you to interprit this the wrong way, but I usually go, bad, not so bad, okay, decent, good, pretty good, quite good, good, awesome, and incredible. Kind of. But I’d say their system is doing much better than it was a year ago and a lot better than people make it sound. If you’re wondering what I’d call it…
Decently good and not so bad
How is the AL West not the worst? Between the four teams, it’s a total toss up every year. None of ’em hardly ever put up big win totals. I don’t know. Maybe it’s just me.
because in the NL Central, a division of six teams, largest in baseball, four have losing records and the winningest team isn’t exactly a lock for the best record in the league, despite playing 4 sub .500 teams half the year. Whereas in the AL west 3/4 of the teams are near/at/above .500 and they have to play the toughest division in baseball throughout the year.
The Reds best players and pitchers are under team control for the next several years. They also have more upper level minor league pitchers than they can use-that means they can play them or trade them. Votto is a stud. Bruce has gotten better each season, and he’s really going to be good-heck, he’s been good this year. Stubbs plays an otherworldly center field and has also made offensive strides. Barring several serious injuries, or GM stupidity when they start dealing to fill up their roster, they should be around for awhile.
Their team isn’t built for just this year. I think you’re mistaken if you think that. They’re in it for the long haul.
“their team isn’t built for just this year. i think you’re mistaken if you think that. they’re in it for the long haul.”
you must have selective reading. i specifically stated that this should be a fun division to watch and should no longer be the worst division in baseball. in other words, im giving credit to the other teams such as the reds and astros who i think will develop into competition for a long time to keep the division always fresh with new blood. i also added that their won’t be any one dominant power( or a juggernaut, if you will, since you don’t seem to understand comprehension very well) meaning their will be plenty of excitement for a lot of fanbases going around.
In other words, the Cardinals are going to continue being a mess. They have taken stars and scrubs to a whole new level. And they are bringing LaRussa back? Fun times.
I would expect the Cards to attempt to extend Carp after the 2011 season (if his health holds up). Restructuring his contract could keep him in StL for a few more years and free up a little more yearly budget to resign Albert.
This last month has to bring up major questions in clubhouse leadership. LaRussa’s decision might not be so automatic this offseason as it has been in the past.
He’ll be 37 for the 2012 season, at some point you either have to go year-to-year or say thanks for the production and let another team lock him up for his 38-40 years.
Indeed, but if his health is still strong, I’d look into a 25 million, 2-3 year extension. (11 in 2012, 9 in 2013 and 7 in 2014). Depends entirely on his health of course, and you have to trust the doctors and team medics for that. You’re right about understanding that one day he’s going to fade, but maybe if you throw in performance incentives (GS, Cy Young votes, etc…) of another 5 million, it would work out for both sides. Carp gets security, the Cards get financial mobility and retain the undisputed leader of their pitching staff. Waino’s as good if not better than Carp on the field, but everyone should know Carp is the leader of the staff.
He’s only the leader of the staff is he’s still producing at a high level though.
But you’re right about the budget- that may force them to extend his deal to clear some room. If they don’t need the budget room I think you let ’11 and ’12 play out, and see how your rotation looks and then make a decision.
I don’t necessarily agree that the leader of a staff has to be performing at a high level. Derek Jeter has seen a decline in his numbers over the last year or two and is still the undisputed leader of the Yankees, and deservedly so. Carp needs to be healthy, but he doesn’t have to be in Cy Young contention every year for him to be the leader of the Cards pitching staff.
please, release kyle lohse.
Please release TLR, Aaron Miles, Nick Stavinoha, Randy Winn, Happy Peter, Jeff Suppan, Dennys Reyes, and others as seen fit.
I will not release Stavinoha. He has still have a long time before getting Arb. He is still young and the emergency catcher.
And he blows chunks as a hitter and defender.
Stavinoha is awful. Who cares if he’s “young” and has a long time before getting arbitration. If he’s on the 25 man roster, he takes a spot from someone who’s better and playing time from someone who’s better. If he’s in AAA, he takes PAs from someone who’s better. He needed to be released yesterday.
I know it sounds ridiculous, but I think that the Cardinals should explore some trade options for Albert Pujols. They could absolutely pillage a farm system for the best player in the game, and I’d imagine they could get about six prospects for him, at least four of which are in a system’s top five. Pairing a bunch of young talent with guys like Colby Rasmus, Jon Jay, David Freese, Adam Wainwright, Shellby Miller, Jamie Garcia… This Cardinals could be loaded, without the major committment to Pujols, and while retaining one of the best hitters in his own right in Matt Holliday.
That goes around and has been going around a lot. But the feeling is the fanbase would be disappointed. And who can blame them? The Cards had the best player in the game fall to them in the 13th round of the draft! If you can’t capitalize on that and make him Stan 2.0 version espanol, then your organization needs some serious review.
But yes, a year of Pujols at 16 million would rake in a lot of prospects. More than Halladay or Lee for sure.
Lol! And Stan V2.0 Espanol he’s been! (Classic line, hahaha)
You’re right though, I had an outsider’s perspective to that theory. Don’t get me wrong, if I were a Cardinals fan, it would be more than disappointing, it would be frustrating to see the best player in baseball leave town for some prospects. On the other hand though, you’d figure that the Cardinals are going to be in some serious financial trouble in the future with more than 200MM dollars committed to both Albert Pujols and Matt Holliday, arbitration cases for their young and upcoming players, other stars, like Chris Carpenter, hitting free agency… It’s just hard to build a team around that.
Once again, from an outsider’s perspective looking in, every single team in baseball would love to have Albert Pujols, and his NTC is limited. Could you imagine the mutual benefit of trading him to a team with a deep farm system? The Rays had the best farm in baseball heading into 2010, according to Fanhouse, but they’d presumably pass with all of the replacements they’ll need to replace their free agents. However, the Rangers had the second best farm system, according to Fanhouse, and they’d be interested, no doubt, (especially if they fall out of the Cliff Lee sweepstakes!)
Still from an outside perspective, the Cardinals could easily command a deal of Neftali Feliz, Martin Perez, Tanner Scheppers, Jake Skole, and other young prospects. You just have to imagine that the possibilities are endless. Lol
A bird in the hand vs. two in the bush. Or rather (one of) the biggest bird in the game in the hand vs. a really good bird, two likely-good birds and one could be amazing bird.
Don’t know about his NTC being limited. Didn’t he reach 10/5 rights this year?
It’s not ridiculous at all. It makes sense. I don’t see Pujols as a continuous performer simply because he’s always banged up. It’s one thing to be playing hurt at 30 years old, but we’ve seen how A-Rod is beginning to decline. Do you really want to be paying Albert $30,000,000 a year at 35/36 years old when his elbow is shot, his feet are still killing him and his legs have continued to get worse. I’m sure he’ll still be a great hitter, but it’s not like he could be spelled as a DH or anything. Remember Bill Buckner? Not the same player by any stretch of the imagination but he could barely stand up by the time he was 37/38. Not only would Albert net you a huge haul (and I would think some major league ready talent) but also open up a huge amount of payroll flexibility. If DeWitt is really committed to raising payroll to $110,000,000 you’d be able to make a legit shot, not just at Adrian Gonzalez in 2012 but also an Adam Dunn or Adrian Beltre in 2011 as well as finally having money to sign a free agent pitcher that isn’t a rehab project.
It’s the difference between having 3-4 stars on the team and then a cast of thousands, or having 7-8 legit players and a few bit players.
I have been saying this for a couple years now. Holliday, Pujols, Rasmus, and scrubs do not and will not make a team.
I would say that’s no fault of Pujols or management, but rather of players not living up to expectations. Who would you sign as a SS anyway? There isn’t much talent out there this coming offseason.
Looking at this offseason’s projected FA’s, one could pay roughly the same for Pujols (16, then 25-30M) at 1B and Jon Jay in RF(400k), or Jayson Werth (16M) in right and Adam LaRoche (7M) at 1B. Personally, I think it’s close enough in terms of both talent and money that when you consider the fan disappointment of losing the franchise player, the decision to keep Pujols is pretty simple. Especially if he’ll sign for 25 million a year and not push for the 30 that he could probably get via free agency.
Personally, if Pujols wants more than 25mm, I couldn’t see paying much more. Like I said before, you can’t field a team of one to three great players and then throw in a bunch of scrubs. It just does not work.
Personally, if Pujols wants more than 25mm, I couldn’t see paying much more. Like I said before, you can’t field a team of one to three great players and then throw in a bunch of scrubs. It just does not work.
jake is a no comp FA. there is no reason to offer him arb, there is no pick to be gained. they can simply make him an offer if they choose to.
I think that the Cardinals need to focus mainly on the middle infield this offseason. Ryan and Schumaker are just fillers, players to put on the field cuz u need a body there. Both are having HORRIBLE defensive years while putting up bad offensive numbers. Ryan is hitting around .220 and Schumaker (our leadoff hitter btw) around .260. They need to be replaced. I would definetly look into trading for Dan Uggla. I know, his defense isnt too good, but i would gladly sacrifice defense for a power hitter at 2B. As for replacing Ryan, look at FA options like Orlando Cabrera or Johnny Peralta. Or trade for someone like Yuniesky Betancourt or Erick Aybar. We just need to get rid of these 2 jokes in the MI and maybe the Cardinals wouldn’t be as bad as they are this year.
Ideal Lineup:
Jon Jay RF
Orlando Cabrera/Betancourt SS
Pujols 1B
Holliday LF
Uggla 2B
Rasmus CF
Freese 3B
Molina C
Pitcher
Ideal Rotation:
Carpenter
Wainwright
Garcia
Someone like Jon Garland/Justin Duchscherer/Freddy Garcia/Jake Westbrook
Consider Hawksworth/Miller/Lynn/McClellan
btw, release Kyle Lohse.
I’d be perfectly happy to see Dan Uggla, especially seeing as the Marlins are trying to low ball him, but Yuniesky Betancourt .. seriously, he’s possibly one of the most pointless players in the majors. I’d love to see a move for Justin Duchscherer.
I definetly wouldnt call Betancourt “pointless”. He has 16 HR’s, 75 RBI’s (both career highs) and a .259 BA. I would take that over our SS’s numbers anyday.
Exactly, career highs. Betancourt is literally an on base black hole, evidently incapable of taking a walk, along with an abysmal glove he’s not exactly an improvement.
Exactly, career highs. Betancourt is literally an on base black hole, evidently incapable of taking a walk, along with an abysmal glove he’s not exactly an improvement.
I definetly wouldnt call Betancourt “pointless”. He has 16 HR’s, 75 RBI’s (both career highs) and a .259 BA. I would take that over our SS’s numbers anyday.
I wouldn’t take uggla if i was a fan and i was paid a contract of a-rod jeter and sabathia combined(i mean both of arod’s contract over a half billion $$.. I would take Kinnsler over Uggla every single day for 40 yrs. Kinnsler is in the top 3 of 2nd baseman if not then #1 Cano and Utley are behind him #2 and 3 respectively …Uggla is probably in the top 25 and probably #23 as far as talent goes.
I wouldn’t take uggla if i was a fan and i was paid a contract of a-rod jeter and sabathia combined(i mean both of arod’s contract over a half billion $$.. I would take Kinnsler over Uggla every single day for 40 yrs. Kinnsler is in the top 3 of 2nd baseman if not then #1 Cano and Utley are behind him #2 and 3 respectively …Uggla is probably in the top 25 and probably #23 as far as talent goes.
ryan is the best defensive shortstop this season according to the fielding bible. i don’t know how you can say he is having a horrible season on defense.
BTW, schumaker is hitting around .270, but i agree we need a new 2baseman. but not uggla. i’d like kelly johnson.
Kelly Johnson will not hit like he did in Arizona. His Home/Away splits prove that. I like Dan Uggla personally, but I might see if Texas will deal Ian Kinsler due to his injury troubles (Unlikely, I know, but I would still want to check him out).
BS
i would take kelly johnson’s home/away splits over schumakers any day. look back at his track record in atlanta, he can definitely hit away from a hitters park.
Actually, Turner field is a fairly neutral park, whereas Chase is definitely more suited for hitters. So Johnson’s stats in Atlanta don’t really prove anything other than that he can hit in a normal park. Busch itself is not friendly to RHH’s not named Pujols.
Actually, Turner field is a fairly neutral park, whereas Chase is definitely more suited for hitters. So Johnson’s stats in Atlanta don’t really prove anything other than that he can hit in a normal park. Busch itself is not friendly to RHH’s not named Pujols.
BS
i would take kelly johnson’s home/away splits over schumakers any day. look back at his track record in atlanta, he can definitely hit away from a hitters park.
i dont know, Ryan has committed 16 errors this season as opposed to 11 errors by Orlando Cabrera and 12 errors by Jhonny Peralta. i dont think that Ryan is the best defensive shortstop at all.
Kelly Johnson is intriguing though. I wouldnt mind us getting him at all. Another lefty in our lineup with some pop would be great.
Cards just better be careful with how much and how long they extend pujols. i know he’s the ‘best hitter in the game’… just a forewarning though.
Pujols is the type of player that is washed up overnight.. like one year he could hit 60hrs win the triple crown then the next season he doesn’t have it anymore..
Pujols is the type of player that is washed up overnight.. like one year he could hit 60hrs win the triple crown then the next season he doesn’t have it anymore..
Cards just better be careful with how much and how long they extend pujols. i know he’s the ‘best hitter in the game’… just a forewarning though.
that’s funny the article says “if” they re-sign Pujols.. Of course they will re-sign him they’re not stupid they have plenty of money to offer him to stay.. He’s a Cardinal for life and after this yr he will be a 3 times reigning MVP and in 10 yrs from now he will have one more then anyone.. actually he should be 6 time MVP all those yrs Bonds cheated. Plus he is the only hope to pass Hank Aaron for HR King. legitimately.. A-Rod will get there in 2 yrs but there will be no coverage of it.
They do not have plenty of money to sign him. Barring a large payroll increase, the extra money available is minimal. That said, I do think he will be signed but I hope that the contract isn’t so far in excess that management cannot field a contending team.
They do not have plenty of money to sign him. Barring a large payroll increase, the extra money available is minimal. That said, I do think he will be signed but I hope that the contract isn’t so far in excess that management cannot field a contending team.
Nope. Votto will be MVP for 2010.
Nope. Votto will be MVP for 2010.
that’s funny the article says “if” they re-sign Pujols.. Of course they will re-sign him they’re not stupid they have plenty of money to offer him to stay.. He’s a Cardinal for life and after this yr he will be a 3 times reigning MVP and in 10 yrs from now he will have one more then anyone.. actually he should be 6 time MVP all those yrs Bonds cheated. Plus he is the only hope to pass Hank Aaron for HR King. legitimately.. A-Rod will get there in 2 yrs but there will be no coverage of it.
Votto has had a good year.. but Pujols had a better one.. Pujols will and should win it every year.. Not much of an argument really