The Pirates officially signed Mexican pitching prospect Luis Heredia for $2.6MM, according to Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. It’s the biggest bonus the Pirates have ever given an international amateur.
Heredia’s former team, Veracruz, will keep 75% of the bonus ($1.95MM) and Heredia will keep 25% ($650K). The 16-year-old right-hander already passed a physical and completed the agreement with the Pirates, though the sides have not yet officially signed the deal.
Many teams were interested in Heredia and it appeared in July that the Blue Jays had offered him $2.8MM. However, the Pirates' offer was competitive and Pittsburgh has long-standing connections to Veracruz and Heredia himself. It's been a breakthrough week for the Pirates, who signed right-handers Jameson Taillon and Stetson Allie before Monday night's deadline to come to terms with picks.
FIRST.
The Pirates have signed 3 great arms in the same number of days.
Not bad for the Pirates. Tabata and Alverez looks pretty promising now you have a chance to mold some good arms into great pitchers.
Was hoping the Jays grabbed him, but glad he went to the pirates and not a powerhouse.
Anyone else see that in 3-5 years there is going to be a lot of good teams in baseball? Seems like the talent level keeps rising and rising.
It will be the same as every year. The usual suspects, the team that’s been clicking for a few years, and a few surprises.
I agree with the usual suspects, but teams like the pirates, nats, kc, oakland, jays and a few others have put together a really nice core of young controllable prospects. .. Atleast to me its looking like the gap between the worst and the best is shrinking.
The only difference is the current best are almost all players in their mid-late 30’s. If anything, the current best teams will become the worst teams as they go into a rebuild.
The Red Sox, yanks, and Rays also all have a solid core of prospects. My point being while the unexpected challengers change the big names will always be regular contenders.
Pirates have a solid farm finally but will still compete with the Cardinals money and talent and the Cubs money (despite GM incompetence). KC has some good prospects but they always seem to mismanage them. Oakland has possibly the best pitching staff in baseball but moneyball seems to have failed the test of “put your money where your mouth is…” in other words besides a few early outs in the ALDS in the last decade what have they really done to give Billy Beane his reputation. The Jays are a team that could be a regular playoff contender if they didn’t have to deal with the AL East. The Nats have 2 problems in the future, the Phillies and Scott Boras (and maybe the Mets if Minaya ever gets fired), in other words despite having great potential their problem could end up being not affording a supporting cast for the Strasberg and Harper show.
If you read my original comment, I didn’t say that there was an uprising of basement dwellers who will take over perennial powerhouses. I simply said that baseballs talent depth is growing and bad teams are getting better, essentially making the gap between good teams and bad teams less wide then it currently is. Yet for some reason you felt the need to disagree even though your in complete agreement.
I agree, and I imagine it has to do with better scouting and more intelligent GMs knowing when to completely blow things up and rebuild.
The Pirates’ rotation is going to be dominating in 4-5 years.TaillonAllieHerediaPurkeLincolnImagine the bullpen.
Assuming no one busts, no one gets injured, some reach the max of their ceiling or exceed expectations, and none of them get traded.
It would be sweet, but a lot has to go right.
Weirder things have happened.
*crosses fingers*
Then again, you’re talking about a team whose losing seasons is almost legal.
-wtk
When people say things like that I often remember a post from a jays fan a few years ago, i believe it was was in 2008 or something.. basically saying 2009 is our year, with a rotation of
Halladay
Mcgowan
Marcum
Romero
Litsch
Should be one of the best starting rotations in the league…
Fast forward to 2009, and 3 of 5 had surgery.. 2010 1 was traded, 2 are undergoing surgery again and 1 may never pitch again. So your right, its nice to hope and dream, but things really do need to go right
Who might never pitch again? McGowan?
your forgetting possibly bryan morris and tim alderson and possibly james mcdonald
I think even the Pirates have forgot about Alderson – a truly brutal year.
Well, you need to draft Purke first. And don’t forget about Bryan Morris and Jeff Locke.
With the exception of Alverez and Tabata (the latter of whom I don’t even think will pan out), what kind of talent does Pittsburgh have for position players in the minors? It’s not like Andrew McCutchen will see a winning season by the Allegheny.
-wtk
You could look at a lot of good teams and say, “with the exception of a couple superstars, what kind of talent do they really have?” The Pirates don’t have a ton of high upside players but they have enough depth in the system to put around potential superstars Alvarez, McCutchen, and Tabata, plus free agent signings. I could see them competing in the NL Central with that nucleus.
If you are able to watch the Pirates consistently, you would see that Tabata is a really good natural hitter. I’m not worried about him busting.
lambo,sanchez,marte,rendon?(hopefully), rojas jr.
Heres the bucs lineup in 5 years
CF Andrew McCutchen
LF Jose Tabata
2B Neil Walker
1B Anthony Rendon (If this years misery continues)
3B Pedro Alvarez
C Tony Sanchez
RF Andrew Lambo
SS Chase d’Arnaud (or Drew Maggi)
Starting Rotation
SP Jameson Taillon
SP Brad Lincoln
SP James McDonald
SP Luis Heredia
SP Bryan Morris
CL Stetson Allie
That COULD be a very good rotation/lineup but my faith that the Bucs will put it together is very slim (As weve seen the last couple years we had a decent team two years ago and then they traded everyone). I am a die hard Bucs fan from Pittsburgh but my faith that A) They have a competent manager to take them to the promise land and B) They wont trade McCutchen or Alvarez (who will be very close to arbitration then) to avoid increasing payroll is very slim
I really doubt that Andrew McCutchen is there in five years.
And any team with Brad Lincoln as their number two is in trouble. I’d rather have Jeff Suppan eat innings.
-wtk
I agree about McCutchen. If he keeps playing well the Pirates can net a nice return.
wtk WTF are you talking about? If Cutch is not there in five years you either have no hope of them turning it around or you are completely stupid in thinking the pirates would get someone to overpay on cutchs value.
I thought it was pretty obvious that I had no faith in the Pirates as an organization.
-wtk
Why is that? I think Neal Huntington has done a very good job.
This isn’t the same organization that drafted Lincoln over Kershaw, Moskos over Wieters, Bullington over Upton, etc.
They seem to have a plan and that plan involves building via the draft and international market.
There are 2 issues with picking Rendon next year. 1.) His ankle(s) and injury history, 2.) many are projecting him to move to 1B down the road.
The injury history is self-explanatory. #2 bothers me much more, because it involves what current management sees happening to Pedro Alvarez. He’s a big kid…and if he gets ANY bigger (some argue he may be too big now) he’ll be moving to 1B. As the Pirates are in the NL, they CANNOT afford to have 2 1B on the roster.
Rendon is a THUMPER, no doubt. His bat may be just too good to skip, but I love the Purke kid…he’d add a potentially DOMINANT LHP to our starting 5 — Allie, Taillon, Lincoln, Heredia, Morris, McDonald…are all RHP.
It’s a tough decision — we have NO power bats at the corner positions (yet), excluding Alvarez (and Jones, if you put him in RF). Makes for a good discussion!
It is a very tough option similar to Manny Machado or Jamieson Taillon.I think they go with purke too but who represents each player?If Scott Boras has both clients than it dosent matter but if he just has purke than you maybe think drafting renden.Who would you rather have Purke or Renden?
Vote: right now, I take Purke. Common sense says we’re going to wait to see what both guys do next year…but I go with Purke — we do NOT have a dominant LHP to put on the rotation. Justin Wilson, Jeff Locke, and Rudy Owens may be servicable big leaguers, but I wouldn’t currently classify any one of them as dominant.
I don’t mean to discount Rendon at all. If he hits 30 jacks next year…he may be the pick! I think we could find ourselves with a log jam at 1B (Rendon and Alvarez), but you don’t get an *ace* from anyone for either. The only opportunity the Pirates are going to have to obtain an *ace* is from either the amateur draft or international market.
Just my opinion 🙂
The Pirates absolutely cannot trade McCutchen, the entire fan base will just give up on the team if that happens. It’s a lot different trading guys like Bay, Nady, Sanchez, Wilson, etc, but a young player with superstar talent is the kind of guy you strive to get on your team, they should lock him up with a huge deal this winter and put all of that to rest immediately. I really like the direction this team is going, but trading him is just insane and counter-productive.
Trading Nate McLouth was a huge blow to the fan base as well, but he wasn’t as young as Cutch. Also, what I believe, and something that NH will never come out and say, is they felt McLouth had a career year and would never approach those kind of numbers so they tried to sell high on him. A guy like McCutchen has a proven track record in the minors and majors so far and is only expected to get better.
I agree. They very well could sell off Doumit, Jones, Duke and Maholm but McCutchen stays. I really believe NH is trying to put together enough top talent to make a run at the WS (not just go safe with pretty good veterans to maybe finish a few games above .500) and a top offensive and defensive CFer like McCutchen would be a vital part of that ‘goal’ team.
McCutchen is the type of player to build a team around. If the Pirates trade him then they really don’t have any direction.
you do realize that McCutchen is under contract through 2015. He will not be traded until then if they do decide to trade him. So lets cool our jets here about getting rid of him
While I appreciate the diehard Pirates fans saying “no trading McCutchen”, the reality should be this: NO ONE is untouchable in this organization.
If someone wants to SEVERELY overpay for Andrew McCutchen, we need to entertain the offer seriously (and maybe even take it!).
well when it comes down to it i dont think any player is untouchable if the return is absurdly one sided like would you trade pujols for longoria,price, and garza
Yeah but that i repeat will ONLY happen if a team has to rebuild, GMs are not going to trade the face of there team just because they can get alot of good players from them, if they are going/close to the playoffs its just not happening.
You’ve got to spend money to make money.
-wtk
yes, there seem to be a handful of teams that have changed their organizational approach for the better. no one knows how they will play out, but it will be far more exciting to watch than the institutionalized mediocrity of KC/Pit/Cincy/Balto of a few years back. anyone who simply says ‘oh, the pirates will muff it up as always’ is not giving the team enough credit for altering their draft and international strategy under new ownership (and i am not a pirates fan). questions of ultimate success aside, it’s an unmistakably different approach
Wow, lots to digest in this thread already. I was going to go person by person and respond accordingly, but instead I will just through out 1 small rant that should take care of everything.
First off, speculating a lineup 5 yrs in advance is hardly worth the time it takes to type. Next years roster however, is much more exiting to me than this years. The key to the pirates organization is having ‘options’. Remember folks, for well over a decade we have had very few options. People were awarded jobs rather than earning them. The culture of this team has absolutely changed for the best. We have options and that is a wonderful feeling.
Second off, retaining key players is essential, but not manditory. If an overwhelming over is made for one of our rising stars, then make the deal. But I cannot emphasize the OVERWHELMING aspect of the deal. If you cannot get drastically overpaid for our assets, there is no reason to make a move. But being closed minded is what ruined this team in the first place. I recall people crying about us moving Jack Wilson and Freddy Sanchez, and Jason Bay, etc. The bottom line is that this organization is better now than they were before.
Finally, in regards to todays signing, this is a loud and clear message to everyone in baseball that the Pirates are moving forward with a plan of how to return this team to championship baseball. We WILL overspend in latin america…we WILL overspend on the draft…we will stockpile talent and find innings and at-bats for players…because positional logjams arent problems…they are blessings.
Final thoughts: The Pirates need to spend 10-15 million next year on another teams 2 or 3 starter. (Which would make them the Pirates ACE for 2011) Someone needs to teach the younger kids how to prepare, and for the most part how to pitch situational baseball. This team is nearly .500 at home. But is abysmal on the road. They need that anchor to get the ball rolling. But its days like today that make me realize the next 18 years will not resemble the previous 18.
Good Job Neal.
Reminds me of when the Royals gave Gil Meche a lot of money to be the ace and mentor. Granted we haven’t made it to the five year point on that deal, but what place are the Royals in right now?
-wtk
Well, I think the strategy has to be significantly better than finding someone with 1 solid season and throwing too much money and too many years at someone. The Pirates can only afford one or the other…So I think we will be in a different position.
I would be in favor of a 10-15 mill over 2 yrs. Starting Pitching is such a gamble due to injurys and such, so I wouldnt want to see them lock anyone up long term.
Something tells me that Neal learned his lesson after the Ian Snell extension. Could actually be the worst deal in his tenure thus far.
But I agree wtk, a Meche type signing is NOT what the Pirates should be looking for.
Perhaps a Shaun Marcum? Relatively cheap, but smart, hard working and really helpful with younger pitchers.. Eventually he’ll become expandable to the jays, or be open to a move in to the pen. That might be a good fit, the pirates will surely have pieces the jays like and as a plus marcum is no slouch with the bat either
I do like Marcum, but I dont want to see us trade for the type of pitcher we need. We have the money to compete for one in free agency. So why foot the bill for the player and give up valuable prospects when we can just get one from FA and not give up anything besides the money. Unless of course is were a top tier pitcher with a favorable contract. Then prospects are worth it. But not for a 2 or 3 guy.
DempseyK is reading my mind.LOL
Your last sentence sums it up man. And like China Dave said in here, everything else aside, these past few years we’ve taken an unmistakably different approach, and a much better one.
Vote_For_Pedro…right contract idea, but not sold on any of those 3 pitchers.
Names Id like to hear kicked around during the off season:
Kevin Correia
Jeremy Bonderman
Dave Bush
Jon Garland
Rich Harden
Ben Sheets
Brandon Webb
I dont remember hearing any of these guys getting any extensions, but if availible, I believe these guys can be had at the yrs and money we would be able to allocate.
I want to see us sign a free agent as well, but Sheets and Harden are done, Bonderman is a back of the rotation guy who has the potential to be okay in the NL, but I’d rather not. Most of these guys are lateral moves aside from Webb, Garland, and maybe Correia.
A few guys I’d like the Pirates to look into are Jorge De La Rosa, Edwin Jackson, Ricky Nolasco, Wade Davis, James Shields, and Brad Penny. DLR and Penny will be free agents, and the other guys may be tough to pry away from their teams, but it never hurts to ask. I wonder if Doumit and someone else would get Edwin Jackson if the White Sox let AJ walk next year? He can split time at catcher and DH for them.
Penny was extended by Houston I believe.
Jackson was being bandied about as the big piece to land Adam Dunn from the Nats, so it seems like a pretty big downgrade to expect Doumit to be an appealing option to them now in return for Jackson, even if the other piece was a pretty significant prospect.
Actually, I think Bonderman fits pretty well in the Pirates plan on a one year deal with a mutual option.
-wtk
I’m wondering how long it will take for free agents to begin to see Pittsburgh as a reputable place to sign, as anything other than a desperation location. I can imagine the team puts out quite a few good offers to good players, only to be rebuffed immediately.
As a Jays fan, I know the team had to pay quite a premium to attract free agents, and their level of play has been far better in recent years than Pittsburgh’s. That said, I hope they can be competitive again in the near future; it’s been far too long.
I think that Pittsburgh is absolutely a reputable place to sign…if you play football or hockey.
-wtk
Im honestly most interested in Webb in a 1-2 yr deal. With him being shelved I see him taking a Ben Sheets type deal. And when he is throwing he is usually dominant. If healthy, he would be my guy Id shoot for.
I agree but as we have seen sheets has struggled this year with a line of 4-9, ERA 4.53, 84 Ks in 20 starts not really ace like for 10 mill.I do think Webb was better than and is better than Sheets but is he worth a one year 10 mill contract with a 12 mill option with a 1.5 mill buyout?
Sheets right now? Probably not. Taking a chance on Webb at the same figures, in a heartbeat. Short term contracts allow you to take those risks. And to be honest, I dont think Billy Beanes gamble on Sheets was a poor decision either. Everyone is always looking for lighting in a bottle, the battle is how long of a contract are you willing to potentially eat hoping to catch it.
There’s something not mentioned in here: Heredia accepted to sign with The Pirates because it’s the team that has a working contract with the Mazatlán Deers, Mazatlán being the City where he was born, his family lives AND is a dream of Heredia to pitch for his local team, to win a championship AND play in the Caribbean Series.
Had he signed with any other team, he probably wouldn’t had a chance to play with Mazatlán in the winter Mexican Pacific League.
By the way, one name not mentioned here is Minaya, the guy really was after Heredia, he even sent somebody specially to talk with Luis’s Father (Hector “the horse” Heredia, a succesful pitcher in Japan and México).
Excellent insight — thank you for the post!
Thanks =)… by the way, i’ve been told Luis Heredia already took his mom and his sister (i think he has two sisters but i am not really sure) out of their house in Mazatlán and it seems they’ll go with him to wherever the Pirates organization want him to play. He is after all a calm kid who grew up near his city’s stadium (mexican winter league) with big dreams like his father.
I’m sure the Pirates struck gold with this kid if they can develop him and can guide him like they’ve done with other kids (plus it seems he’ll be in good company with the recent acquisitions by Pittsburgh in the minor leagues).
I like the one post that said , I wonder when Free Agents will see Pittsburgh is a great place to sign. The city rocks, it may get a little cold in the winter but thankfully we don’t play baseball in the winter. The women and night life are great better than any city that isnt LA, NYC or LV. The management team finally has a clue as to what they are doing talentwise… so with all that said you would think free agents would come here right?
WRONG as long as there is no coaching staff worth mention players won’t come here. There has to be players that you want to play with (alvarez, mccutchen, tabata) but also coaches and an owner you would want to play for. If lemieux or cuban got ahold of this team Neal H’s plan would blossom right in front of our eyes russell and nutting just arent cutting it.
@ the city rocks:
Except for the Port Authority. *sigh*
You understand that you are replying to a thread where Nutting just dished out a club record bonus for an international free agent, right? One that is more than 6x the previous franchise record? And maybe you noticed that they also signed BOTH Jameson Taillon and Stetson Allie? For a grand total of somewhere around $11.4M?
What is there to complain about? Obviously these three wanted to play for him.
these three wanted to play for him? gayo and our other LA scouts made the Heredia deal possible, Taillon and Allie were drafted and had no choice but to sign or otherwise wait 3 years to see if there is a hard slot system in place to lose millions on not playing for the pirates. Nutting isn’t really spending more than he has in the past, just less on the big league club and more on the draft which is what should’ve been doing the past 18 years but failed to do so. This is directly squarely at free agency. Can you name me a free agent that has ever come to pittsburgh not on the downslide of their career? just one …. waiting….. still waiting…. exactly none. There will continue to be this trend until there is a good management team and commitment to winning for the present not the future. The thing is to field a playoff team now the payroll would have to increase by roughly 80 mil to sign a FA 1B SS and RF capable of lifting the lineup to playoff status and a rotation yes a whole new rotation ( maybe ohlendorf, maholm, or mcdonald as a 5 or 45 combo) still gonna cost a boatload. Pittsburgh needs to get to the point where its only gonna cost them 30-40 mil more to get to this point and they are working to get there but its gonna take time because the cupboards were bare for so long.
and by management team i mean coaching… neal has been stellar if not perfect (minus the bay deal still think he coulda done better in a deal with TB)