The city of New York has missed out on both LeBron James and Cliff Lee over the last two days. In the latter star's case, however, another chance to acquire Lee will likely be coming soon, and many seem to think it's already a fait accompli.
As Andrew Marchand of ESPNNewYork.com puts it, "there is still a feeling around baseball that it is a matter of when, not if, Cliff Lee will become a Yankee." Lee is a free agent at the end of the season and given the uncertainly surrounding the Rangers' ownership situation, it's unknown exactly what the club's payroll or overall financial status will be come winter. Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports (via Twitter) that the Rangers feel they can sign Lee to a long-term deal should the sale of the team be settled, but even with this stability, it means that the Rangers will still need to face the Yankees in a bidding war — a daunting task for any club when pursuing a player that New York truly seems to want.
Even by losing out on Lee now, the Yankees can still win in the long run. The Bronx Bombers can keep top prospect Jesus Montero and promising infielder David Adams (who would've gone to Seattle in a Lee deal) and still possibly get Lee for nothing but money in the offseason. Also, New York's rotation will have more room for Lee in the winter since Javier Vazquez is probably unlikely to be re-signed and Andy Pettitte may retire.
There is one possible short-term downside for the Yankees, however, best summarized in a tweet by Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News: "..this worked out quite well for the Yankees. Unless they have to play Texas in the playoffs, of course."
I think I speak on behalf of everybody when I say these 2 words- Not surprised.
The Yankees will not have to worry nearly as much about facing Cliff Lee in a 5 game series as supposed to a 7 game series. The way things are going now, the Yankees will more than likely be playing the AL Central winner (barring injury, I can’t see how the Rangers don’t finish with the second best record in the AL. Yes, I think they will have a better record than the Rays). In a 7 game series, the advantage is definitely Yankees in that case.
They will have to worry about it if the Yankees get the wildcard. There are still 3 good teams in the East. Plus it doesn’t matter if TBay has a better record than Texas you don’t play within your division for the ALDS.
I’m aware of that. But there are situations that can arise where the Yankees would play Texas in the first round, and one of them includes the Rays having a better record than the Rangers (the basic one where the Rangers have the worst record in the AL).
Also, forgive my optimism, but the Yankees are going to win the AL East. I’m sorry, I can’t be afraid of a banged up Red Sox team that doesn’t play .500+ opponents too well, nor can I be afraid of a Rays team that I believe is still hitting like .230 with the bases empty.
I still don’t buy the Yanks will sign Lee unless they deal Burnett. Burnett, Sabathia, Teixeira, Rodriguez all have over 3 years left on high dollar contracts. They will also have to resign Jeter and Mo. I don’t see them adding another high dollar, long term contract unless they unload one. Through the last 10 years they have been burned with a lack of flexibility by having too many of those types of contracts and having players who were not producing on them (PAvano, Giambi, Igawa, Irabu, even Matsui for a couple of years). They might sign a High Dollar short term contract, but not a high dollar long term one until a few of the existing ones get short or go away
“I don’t see them adding another high dollar, long term contract”
How many times do people have to say this before they realize that the Yankees are literally MADE OF MONEY. They made $600 million last year. The playoffs netted them $72 M. Their soft ‘cap’ of $200 M is simply for business purposes. If it gets them a significantly larger chance of going deep in the postseason, they’ll make the necessary adjustments to the budget.
No, it’s not fair. Yes, it’s a feedback loop. No, nothing is going to be done about it anytime soon.
Well, that is, unless the Wilpons and Omar Minaya somehow get their hands on the team. That may be the only way to bring the Yankees down to earth.
The fact is even the Yankees have spending limits, but you miss my point entirely. I am not saying that if he was willing to take a 1 year 30 million deal they wouldn’t sign him. I am saying the issue is LONG TERM HIGH DOLLAR commitments. If he was willing to take something like Doc signed (3 years, even if it was for more $ than he signed for) but I don’t see them doing the long term thing right now. It’s about roster flexibility. Three off seasons ago the Yanks signed their own players and that was it. 2 Off seasons ago they unloaded some commitments and signed 3 big contracts. Last year nothing (they didn’t even resign Damon or Matsui). This year it will be Mo and Jeter and little else. Next year when Burnett is down to 2 left and Posada will be a Free agent I could see them considering 1 or 2. Those are “business purposes” and baseball purposes
Trust me, there will be ‘room in the budget’ for Cliff Lee when the time comes. Assume Jeter, Rivera come back, making the same money. You’ve got:
Nick Johnson $5.5 M, gone
Randy Winn, $1 M, gone
Chan Ho Park, $1 M, gone
Javier Vazquez, $11.5 M, gone
Andy Pettitte, $11.5 M, gone
Marcus Thames, $1 M, gone
Even with arbitration, various other salary raises, and filling in some spare parts, there’s more than $20 million left in whatever budget they have this year.
And even if Pettitte comes back, I think the Yankees can find a couple million lying around in their couch cushions for Cliff Lee. Or, they could do what they did with Sabathia, make his salary lower in the first year, and give him a humongous signing bonus.
The easy part is fitting Lee into future budget seasons, they have fewer committments in those seasons. Like you said, Posada comes off the books after 2011. Swisher, too, if the Yankees decide not to keep him. Marte as well. The hardest part is finding room for him in the 2011 budget. And that’s pretty easy.
We hear the same song and dance every year. The Yankees don’t want another long-term contract on the books, they’re getting too old to sign more players, they don’t have enough money, blah, blah. We’ve seen enough times that if the Yankees see a player they truly, truly covet, they’ll get him. Money is, literally, almost no object to them, especially if they can make it all back two-fold by going deep in the postseason.
Here’s a quick rundown on cost adjustments for 2011:A-Rod = -$1mTex = +$2.25mCano = +$1mGranderson = +$2.75mSwisher = +$2.25mThat’s $7.5m in raises.Then you have your arb guys – with Hughes leading the way. If he keeps up his 2010 success he could easily get a raise of $5-6m. Gardner looks to be eligible – maybe a $3m raise. Chamerberlain might be in line for another $2-3m. Throw in other raises and you are looking at $15-20m in arb raises. Now you are at approx $25m in raises. The players you listed above equal $32m. You are saving $7m. Now add in Lee (assuming $20m/year) to replace Vazquez and you are at $-13m. AND you have to either resign Pettitte ($12m) or get another starter. Payroll could easily be $25m MORE than it is today if you sign Lee and retain Pettitte or sign another guy in the $10-12m range. The Yankees could do it – but the impacts on payroll would be substantial. You are talking about a payroll in the $230-240 range. Oh .. and you lose your 1st round draft pick in the 2011 draft.
Here’s a quick rundown on cost adjustments for 2011:A-Rod = -$1mTex = +$2.25mCano = +$1mGranderson = +$2.75mSwisher = +$2.25mThat’s $7.5m in raises.Then you have your arb guys – with Hughes leading the way. If he keeps up his 2010 success he could easily get a raise of $5-6m. Gardner looks to be eligible – maybe a $3m raise. Chamerberlain might be in line for another $2-3m. Throw in other raises and you are looking at $15-20m in arb raises. Now you are at approx $25m in raises. The players you listed above equal $32m. You are saving $7m. Now add in Lee (assuming $20m/year) to replace Vazquez and you are at $-13m. AND you have to either resign Pettitte ($12m) or get another starter. Payroll could easily be $25m MORE than it is today if you sign Lee and retain Pettitte or sign another guy in the $10-12m range. The Yankees could do it – but the impacts on payroll would be substantial. You are talking about a payroll in the $230-240 range. Oh .. and you lose your 1st round draft pick in the 2011 draft.
Don’t forget las year, they said they were compromised to their budget and they couldn’t sign both Matsui and Damon, and a week later they traded for Javier Vázquez, for whom they pay almost the same amount given to the other two.
Yup, compromised to not bring them back and instead bring only a player instead of two for that amount of money… but HEY! they gave us Nick ‘i hurt my pinky’ Johnson, and Marcus ‘i can’t hit, catch nor throw’ Thames.
Maybe this offseason they’ll say they are in a budget and after freeing all that money… they bring back Pavano for 2 years at 25millions total.
Don’t forget las year, they said they were compromised to their budget and they couldn’t sign both Matsui and Damon, and a week later they traded for Javier Vázquez, for whom they pay almost the same amount given to the other two.
Yup, compromised to not bring them back and instead bring only a player instead of two for that amount of money… but HEY! they gave us Nick ‘i hurt my pinky’ Johnson, and Marcus ‘i can’t hit, catch nor throw’ Thames.
Maybe this offseason they’ll say they are in a budget and after freeing all that money… they bring back Pavano for 2 years at 25millions total.
“Well, that is, unless the Wilpons and Omar Minaya somehow get their hands on the team. That may be the only way to bring the Yankees down to earth.”
I’m a Yankee fan, but this comment made me laugh tons.
I love the way this whole Lee thing went down today. The Yankees get to keep Montero and they will get Lee in the winter when he becomes a free agent.
It is truly a win win!
It is a win win!
Agreed. Montrero is starting to heat up in triple-a and still has the talent to be a real force at the major league level. Have fun renting Lee for 3 months Rangers.
It’s not a win if the Yankees don’t win it all. Coming up a game or two short in the playoffs will have people pointing to today.
Holding onto Montero is great news. Of course, you will be surrendering a number 1 pick in the 2011 draft + paying 6/$120m+ for Lee. It won’t be cheap. But what do the Yankees care?
Pointing to today and saying what, exactly?
The Yankees didn’t fail today. They put forth their best offer and Seattle simply said no. What happened was that the Mariners got an incredible haul on a pitcher they traded a pittance for.
The only team that can be branded failures today are the Philadelphia Phillies. Today’s trade of Lee simply proved that their completely pointless trade of Lee was one of the dumbest moves of the past ten years.
Their failures because they didn’t have the cojones to include Drabek in the Halliday deal a year ago. How bold is Amaro now. What an idiot. As for the Yanks signing Lee, don’t be so sure. Were not dealing with moneybags steinbrenner, instead his cost conscious son Hal. Don’t be surprised if Howie Lincoln & Chuckie Armstrong give JZ free reign to throw massive $$$$’s at Lee in the offseason. I’d rather see’em spend $$$$ on an Ace starter, as opposed to signing mediocre hitters who hit below their career average.
If the M’s were going to do that, then they would have already. The M’s could make such an offer to Lee, its within they financial abilities of the club, but it would eat up all the money they have left to try to improve the team going forward. Almost half of their budget would be tied up in Felix and Lee. They could do it, they just shouldn’t. Only teams that are horribly irresponsible with respect to the financial balance of baseball like the NY teams and Boston, could afford to pay a second ace.
The Phillies were the biggest failures on the day of this trade? Only if you dwell in the past. Another Cliff Lee trade doesn’t make a previous trade any more or less dumb… it was either a dumb trade or it wasn’t, and whatever it was it was that when it happened and will always be that. I’m actually quite happy that Mr. Lee isn’t going to the Mets, thank you very much.
The Yankees could have sweetened the offer. It wasn’t like they didn’t have additional prospects to throw in.
Again, I’m not saying that they SHOULD have – just that people will 2nd guess this decision if the Yanks do anything other than win the WS.
I do agree that Philly just looks terrible. How different would that team look with Cliff Lee and Halladay back to back. The garbage they got from Seattle and the $9m they saved on salary is a pittance. This isn’t looking in retrospect – the trade was ripped from day 1. Now it just looks even worse (if that is even possible).
The Yankees could have sweetened the offer. It wasn’t like they didn’t have additional prospects to throw in.
Again, I’m not saying that they SHOULD have – just that people will 2nd guess this decision if the Yanks do anything other than win the WS.
I do agree that Philly just looks terrible. How different would that team look with Cliff Lee and Halladay back to back. The garbage they got from Seattle and the $9m they saved on salary is a pittance. This isn’t looking in retrospect – the trade was ripped from day 1. Now it just looks even worse (if that is even possible).
they could have traded him to the n.l. that would have made it perfect
I hope Lee doesn’t sign there. Please! I am sick of Yankees signing all these top players on the market.
In other news, water is wet, and the Pope is Catholic.
Money and DRAFT PICKS.
7 yr 156 million dollars for Lee from NY, Payroll goes up to around 230 million next yr
I think it will just come down to years and dollars.
It is very clear that the Yankees want Cliff Lee. It’s also clear that Lee wouldn’t mind playing in NY as he’s said he enjoys playing there and his good pal CC is there. For a player that has been on 4 teams in the past 2 years, you KNOW that feeling wanted and secure will mean a lot and Cliff knows the Yankees want him, badly even.
You can fuhgetaboutit. No matter what it takes, the BoSox will offer $10MM more just to ensure Cliff Lee never wears pinstripes. Mark my words, we will NEVER allow it to happen, ever. No matter what it costs. Its not so much that we need or want Lee. It is the chance to deprive the Yanks of something that they perceive as pivotal. And it is a game we are sure to win. After we sign Lee, you can pick up Dice-K cheap, once we release him.
Cliff Lee is already dropping hints that he wants to be a Yankee. If anything, this will be another Mark Tex situation where Lee uses the Sox to drive up the bidding even though he has no desire to play in Boston.
Teixiera absolutely would have played in Boston if he got the most money from them. Scott Boras admitted this as well, come on do you really think he came to NY for the glory of playing in pinstripes? The Red Sox were a better team at the time than the Yankees were, they just happened to offer more money.
Anyways, I don’t see the Red Sox looking to commit major money to Lee, but if they want to they could. They already have Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, and Lackey locked up for the next four seasons, I don’t see where Lee fits in (obviously you can always use pitching, but for pratical purposes they don’t need him). I will be surprised if the Yankees sign Lee, I definitely won’t count them out but their payroll is going to stay the same as it was this year after re-signing Mo and Jeter, and they had to fill out the roster with guys like Randy Winn…are they now going to commit that much money and years to Lee? I think if they win a World Series again they definitely won’t feel the need to splurge. Although I do see the Red Sox as a near lock to sign Crawford and they have tons of money coming off the books to fill out their roster, so maybe the Yankees will be the Yankees and make yet another huge splash.
I agree with most of this post, but I can’t say we are a lock to sign Crawford. I think the Yanks may even have the upper hand on that signing. But we certainly will compete for him. Personally, I’d be more interested in signing Zobrist if he becomes available. I note he’s listed as a Type-A free agent, but I’m not sure if he has options or would sign an extension with the Rays. Zobrist can play All-Star level defense at almost every position, hits great and has an awesome can-do attitude. Crawford might be duplicative for us, because we already have Jacoby Ellsbury, who has many of the same tools (except for power hitting).
I don’t think Lee prefers the Yanks to Boston. The Sox had a limit on what they would spend for Tex, but won’t on Lee. In fact, we’ll tell him up front that we will not be outbid. Any number thrown at him will be met and exceeded by us. I seriously doubt that Lee will turn down our highest bid, knowing he will have as good a chance to wear a championship ring as anywhere else he could play.
When have the Yanks ever been outbid from the Sox?
Uhm, we outbid the Yanks for the posting rights to Dice-K (as well as the Mets and Rangers). We outbid the Yanks for 22-y/o Cuban outfielder prospect Jorge Padron. And just as an aside about Yankee vulnerability to being outbid, what happened with Adeinis Hechavarria? The Yanks got outbidded by the Blue Jays? Yup. There is a limit to what the Yanks can do, as there is for every team. The BoSox have about $45MM per season coming off the books, starting in 2011. It would not be out of the question for us to offer Lee 8 years, $250MM, just to keep him away from you guys. Plus, it gives us 2 of the 4 most dominant lefties in the AL. Additionally, we get to say, “Cliff, didn’t you just love shutting down the Yanks when you were a Mariner? How would you like the opportunity to do that 4 or 5 times a season? And, at the end, you get this really cool World Series Champ ring.”Insert evil laugh here (“Mwahahahahahahah”).
And then Cliff Lee laughs and signs with the Yankees.
Considering how that Dice-K signing is now coming back to haunt you guys (in that the money you wasted on him-thanks for outbidding us btw-now prevents a Cliff Lee signing). The Red Sox need to put some money into hitters, particularly Mr. Beltre come free agency.
so the sox are no different than the yanks when it comes to spending?
I’m pretty sure it was reported that the Yankees offered more money to Hechavarria, but that he went to Toronto because he believed he could make it to the majors faster.
I’m pretty sure it was reported that the Yankees offered more money to Hechavarria, but that he went to Toronto because he believed he could make it to the majors faster.
The redsox aren’t even ganna get a sniff of Lee LOL. Im glad they didn’t trade for him today. I don’t think the Rangers have a chance to sign him unless he really really likes it there and gives them some verbal commitment crap.
steve u a bit bitter? lmao
I find it funny that the exact same Yankee fans calling for this trade earlier today are now praising the fact that it didn’t go through…at least wait 24 hours to be a hypocrite. If the Yankees win the World Series, Montero turns out to be a stud, and they still sign Lee of course it’s a great non trade, but that is a lot of things that need to fall into place. But I think it’s more likely that one of these three things happen:
1. The Yankees fall short of repeating as champs and their fan base will rant about how Lee would’ve put them over the top.
2. They don’t sign Lee in the offseason
3. They do sign Lee, but the draft pick they lost in next years very deep draft turns out to be a better player than Montero. Montero is going to hit in the MLB, but even if he is a Victor Martinez type bat, will average first base defense make him anything more than a slightly above average player? I think Montero’s value is all dependent on him catching. Plus he will be blocked by Teixeira and the inevitable A-Rod move to DH down the road. Idk, I think this trade would’ve been great for the Yankees and they should be disappointed it fell through.
1-This is the only one I agree with. Not too worried, though. If we don’t win the WS this year, we’ve only solidified our future by keeping Montero.
2- Cliff Lee wants to be on a guaranteed contender. The Red Sox’s rotation is clogged up, and they need to spend money on a 3rd basemen and a bullpen. Tampa Bay won’t spend that money. Short of the Angels, I can’t see any other team making a real strong push, and even then, he probably turns them down.
3-Prospects are never a sure thing. We lose a draft pick-big deal. As I said yesterday, you can always move him to a corner outfield spot, hope his defense doesn’t fall into the negative double digits on UZR, and trade one of Gardner (love him, but speedy slap hitters never last long) or Swisher (could become too expensive in FA, and, hey, Montero’s bat could make up for it)
I would love to see how many of the teams and their fans if given the Yankees revenue advantage would NOT take advantage of it! That is the GM’s Job! As far as Cliff Lee goes, it was a smart business decision to try to get him. Let’s just say you have a $220 million dollar payroll (investment) and you can spend another $5 million (1/2 Lee’s 2010 salary) to protect you original investment you would be a fool not to do it. It was just a good business decision! Make no mistake about it. Cliff Lee is probably the only pitcher out there that can derail Yanks in a seven game series! If the Phillies were smart enough to know you have to win game 6 before you worry about game 7, it could have happened last year. Also if you you have an interest in him next year you bring him in now! As a season ticket holder I hope it doesn’t come back to bite them!!!!!!
People actually get paid to write this? Seriously?! I think I could work at ESPN.
Not surprised. They buy every free agent out there. It’s also very sad that most of the good players go the yankees because when you have teams that are developing (Nationals, Orioles, D-Backs etc.) they simply have no shot. If they don’t win the world series next year it would be sad.
Not surprised. They buy every free agent out there. It’s also very sad that most of the good players go the yankees because when you have teams that are developing (Nationals, Orioles, D-Backs etc.) they simply have no shot. If they don’t win the world series next year it will be sad.
Yep. This is why Yankees and Red Sox fans love to say the AL is a stronger league than the NL, and why we NL fans just consider the AL a joke (a very cruel one, with 12 teams as victims).
The whole “AL vs. NL” stuff is a joke. I enjoy teams in both leagues.
Well I do to, I was just pointing out that it’s always Yankees fans and Red Sox fans that seem to care most about the AL vs. NL stuff, which seems to be because they consider the AL East to be the entire AL. The competitive balance in the AL is extremely skewed, which is a sad thing.
The whole “AL vs. NL” stuff is a joke. I enjoy teams in both leagues.
The NYY fans conversation..
2 hours before Lee’s trade to Rangers: “C’mon Cashman! Trade Montero! We NEED Lee!”
2 hous after Lee’s trade to the Rangers: “We don’t need Lee.”
Gotta admit that some of these NYY fans are good for a laugh. By the way, the article sounds more like sour grapes than anything.
I’m not sure how some of you are coming to these conclusions. Clearly trading for Lee was a luxury as opposed to a necessity. I read plenty of post (and I agreed) that trading Montero and other for Lee was a poor use of resources seeing as how we have a staff record of 46-22 w/ a 3.76 era and a 1.23 whip. If anything it’s our bullpen and our offense that could use some strengthening. Those that say “I’m glad we didn’t get Lee” are not the same one that claimed he was a “must have” for the playoff run. As for the article, what’s the big deal? Fact of the matter is, the Yanks will probably have at least one and possibly two opening in the rotation next year and need to fill one with a FOR type starter. As for the future payroll, consider the following. Assuming Lee will command a 5 year deal (taking him to age 37) the Yanks, in addition to possibly moving Pettite and Vazquez off the books this year, will……a) Have contract for Nick Johnson ($5.5 mil), Kei Igawa ($4 mil) and Damaso Marte ($4 mil) off the books in the next 2 years.b) See a reduction in Arod’s salary over the next 5 years from $32 mil this year to $21 mil.c) Will probably resign Mo and Posada to reduced contract and eventually see them retire over the next 2-3 years.d) “Might” possibly see CC Sabathia opt out of his contract after the 2011 season. No guarantee he wouldn’t try to resign w/ one of the west coast teams.e) With a set OF of Gardner, Granderson and Swisher, a set IF of Tex, Cano, Jeter, Arod, Cervelli/Posada, what are the “major” area of needs to address that might tie up our budget? If anything a SP and fine tuning of the bullpen are the major concerns going into next year. A new contract for Lee could easily be absorbed into the budget w/ o tipping us over the $200 mil mark next year.
It’s more about not facing Lee in a short series. Yankees had better be very aware of Tampa’s pitching. Have already shown they can’t beat their young pitchers. If you are interested in bringing Lee here next year Yanks should have brought him here now. Good pitching always always beats a good hitting team. They should give Joba away. His problem is he is lazy! Thinks he’s going to throw a 94 mph fastball by major league hitters forever! That’s not happening. Even the kid in Washington found that out after 5 starts! Should have gotten Lee just not to face him.