The White Sox are "trying to accelerate" talks with the Brewers for Prince Fielder, tweets Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. Unsurprisingly, Rosenthal says the problem is that the Brewers view Daniel Hudson as only a No. 3 or 4 type. Yesterday ESPN's Buster Olney wrote that the Brewers' "clear preference will be for young power pitching." Olney tweets today that the Sox "probably can't make a deal unless they offer Gordon Beckham in the package."
Just yesterday, Rosenthal tweeted that the Sox were not on Fielder due to financial concerns and the difficulty matching up. The market for Fielder appears to be picking up, as evidenced by Rosenthal's tweet today that the first baseman is generating more calls than Corey Hart. MLBTR provided a full profile of the Fielder market yesterday.
Enter Alex Anthopoulos.
Brewers get: Marcum, HudsonWhite Sox get: FielderJays get: Beckham
Thanks but no thanks if Fielder is going to cost Beckham and Hudson.
Brewers have a glut of infielders.. Marcum becomes their ace. But okay.
Nvm I misread what you wrote.
Marcum is not better than Yovani Gallardo…
What do you think he will cost ? Fielder has been one of the best hitters in the game the last 3 years. I would think it would be more along the lines of Gavin Floyd and Beckham. Prince will not be cheap.
I cant tell you what he would cost, but at the price of Beckham and Hudson I’d take a pass. If you think It’d cost Floyd + Beckham, youre in fantasy land. If the Brewers are smart, they’ll be sure and trade him at some point either this year or next. The last thing they should want to have happen is watch him walk away and collect draft compensation. Draft picks are far from sure things, and they could end up with close to nothing for their prized player.
So the Jays trade Marcum for Beckham? I don’t think AA would do that deal.
its probably going to take a 3 team trade to get prince out of milwaukee.
Milwaukee would get absolutely raped in a deal if Hudson is the centerpiece. Big joke that would be.
As a White Sox fan, I agree. I think I likely deal would have to include Dayan Viciedo, Hudson, and maybe another medium prospect. Viciedo and Hudson could be co-centerpieces. For that price, I wouldn’t want my team to do it, but there’s no stopping Kenny Williams.
I don’t get it. Who gets the 5th spot in the rotation if Hudson is gone? Tony Pena? There has to be at least another 10 games where the 1-4 starters can’t go on 4 days rest. As much as I don’t want to see Gordon Beckham leave, I think I would rather see him go over Daniel Hudson. Dayan Viciedo would be fine, but the market value for Fielder demands a lot more in return.
Carlos Torres
Just wondering, would White Sox fans be okay with dealing Gordon Beckham? I imagine it would take him to get Fielder.
No they wouldn’t.
Doesn’t make much sense to me. That seems like a little much to give up for Fielder. No doubt at this very Fielder is the better player at this time…..even though Beckham is hitting close to .400 since the first of June. Beckham might be the next cornerstone of the franchise.
I’d much rather see them get a lefthander like Adam Dunn if it wouldn’t cost as much as Fielder. problem is that right now the Nationals are treating Dunn like he’s Ryan Howard….they seem to want way too much.
I had always pictured the Sox as being a blackhorse team for Adrian Gonzalez….but that won’t be happening atleast during the season with the Padres winning.
If KW can’t pull a deal for the big power lefty…he might try and swing a deal to get a pitcher or wait until August waiver claim.
“problem is that right now the Nationals are treating Dunn like he’s Ryan Howard”
Career slash lines
Howard: .282/.373/.580 .394 wOBA
Dunn: .252/.383/.523 .385 wOBA
Pretty similar players if you ask me, especially now that Dunn is playing 1B around the same level that Howard does.
The question is are they that much better at what they will cost than maybe LaRoche now…….I’d like to see the Sox make a run at Adrian Gonzalez.
Dunn and Howard do compare well…..but are they worth whatit might cost. Cause if it costs Beckham the Sox will likely be out….not enough ammo in the system to nail that deal. KW much said the same.
Count me on the “no” side – I think Beckham will be a cornerstone of the White Sox team for years to come. Although Fielder is a premier power hitter and would make a great headline, I don’t want to see the Sox trade Beckham (or Hudson or Viciedo for that matter).
The Sox have gotten this far without mortgaging young talent – if they can’t make a deal without giving up one of these guys, I say stand pat and let the 25 guys sitting in first place right now take care of business.
The Gordon Beckham who isn’t even getting on at a .300 clip? He’s been an absolute disaster so far this year… It will cost a lot more than him to get Fielder. Maybe if he had shown more this year…
Granted Beckham was terrible the first half….he is on a tear now.. especially when it counts….But yeah I am pretty sure Beckham is not going anywhere.
Well, if the expectation is that Beckham will be a .235 hitter who strikes out a lot for the rest of his career, then clearly he should be swapped. I think the potential is there for Beckham to be a high impact player going forward. Granted, the first half of the season has been disappointing, but I think he showed too much last year to be discarded after a poor half season. There is a reason why Seattle, Washington, and Milwaukee want him in any deal – they believe the same thing the Sox do…Gordon Beckham has a good chance to be a special player.
It also might have something to do with the fact that other teams (seemingly) don’t place very much value on Hudson or Viciedo.
The answer to that is a big no. If that’s what it takes, I’ll pass on the plump prince.
Brewers would be able to send a SP to fill in the vacant spot I assume. Not that you’d want any of our terrible pitchers…
There’s always making a secondary deal to bring in a mid-tier starter.
What?!? The Brewers don’t want what the ChiSox are offering? What the hell is wrong with them? Don’t they know that the ChiSox want Fielder? Get it Dunn, Milwaukee!!!
[/Nats-casm]
Rizzo is overplaying his hand. He doesn’t want to signal to the fan base that watches the other 4 out of 5 games that they are done until he has to. Get over yourself.
Care to make a friendly wager?
I say Dunn doesn’t get traded at all before the deadline – for the simple reason that he’s worth more to the Nats than any other team (including the ChiSox) is willing to pay.
If I’m wrong, I’ll come back here and admit it and get over myself.
If I’m right, you admit it – and I can tell you to get over yourself.
Deal?
I’m not arguing whether he’s going to get traded or not, I’m just saying it’s ridiculous for the Nats to think they can get TCQ or Beckham for Dunn in a walk year. Kenny wouldn’t even include Gordon in a trade for AGon so I can’t imagine he’d do it for Dunn.
People need to factor in moves like the Maya signing. That move and the likely dollars behind it seems to indicate that the Nationals FO seems to really believe that they can win in the shorter term than the longer term. If that’s what they believe they have to consider holding on Dunn because they have at best .800OPS Eastern League Chris Marrero who will probably need at least a whole year at Syracuse and doesn’t seem to have the high ceiling you want.
Personally, this Nats fan would rather see them do the Dunn for Hudson plus 2 secondary players deal than hold onto him 4 years 60M or be on the hook for possibly overpaying him after this year. I can live with 3 years 40M, but Dunn at 4 years 60M is pricey indeed.
Dunn for Hudson isn’t going to happen. Free Agency looms for Dunn, and people around the league do not view him as being worth a terribly large amount. There’s a reason why no deal will get done if Rizzo treats Dunn like Ryan Howard.
Exactly. To the Nats, Dunn is Ryan Howard.
::puts on rose-colored glasses::
And with the right guys hitting in front of him, he could be.
::removes rose-colored glasses, waits for torrents of derision::
There is not a huge difference between Ryan Howard and Adam Dunn…
Yeah – but I figured I’d already strained my credibility so I didn’t insist on it!
Lots of posturing going on by the teams now…..KW always seems to sneak in someplace. Seems like the Nationals equate Dunn with Fielder, so why notuse them against eachother?
On the contrary, I think it’s the ChiSox who eventually blink – and my guess is, in the end, they’ll end up with Fielder (who the Brewers really do want to deal since he’s gone as soon as FA hits for a Boras-sized bonanza) as opposed to Dunn (who I think wants to stay in DC if he can get a good deal).
Either way, though, Hudson and filler won’t get it done.
Because the White Sox aren’t offering enough to get either? You can’t use them against each other if Melvin and Rizzo just call each other and say, “Can you believe this jackass?”
I don’t want the Sox to trade Hudson, they really can’t afford to throw Carlos Torres out there every 5th day. Go after Luke Scott, Adam LaRoche, anybody who’s better than the combo of Kotsay/Jones. You don’t need Fielder/Dunn.
Really I see the sox getting LaRoche, though I never thought of Scott.
The only problem I have with trading Hudson is: A I don’t want them to, and B We have no fifth starter. Sure we could throw out Marquez who I do like, or Torres who would do ok, but I really like Hudson. Then where does that leave us next year, I don’t really want Freddy back I guess they were saying Sale could get the job, but could that be two soon. Maybe with that thought Sale, would replace Hudson in the rotation.
PS Brewers when you only have one guy who is a number 1, and the rest of your guys are 6,7,8 type guys a number 3 guys looks really good.
Doesn’t matter what looks good now. A 3 isn’t going to cut it for Fielder.
PS White Sox when you have Juan Pierre as a regular starter, the offense of Prince Fielder looks really good.
@Buster_ESPN
The White Sox are interested in Prince Fielder; it appears they probably can’t make a deal unless they offer Gordon Beckham in the package.
Then I dont think this deal is going down unless something besides Prince is going to the Sox in return for Gordon plus prospects
The Nationals are over playing their hand. Get over yourself.
Au contraire, mon frere – the Nats are *playing* their hand. They don’t want to deal Dunn at all – let alone sell him cheaply – given how badly Nats fans like me will pound them if they do (plus they’ll lose the chance at the two draft picks if he declines arbitration).
When Mike Rizzo says he wants two young studs or ML-ready prospects, he’s telling the truth – he won’t part with Dunn unless someone overpays. He had some line about losing Dunn would be painful for us so he’d make sure it was painful for the other team as well. That’s OK with me.
He’s not bluffing, he’s not negotiating; he’s being honest about the price.
Ya sure I think some fans are not being real when they think Dunn should be handed to the White Sox for cheese, but I also think Nats fans are overvalueing Dunn He’s not worth 6+ years of Hudson and Dayan. He might be worth Dayan and a low a prospect but thats it.
You’ve nailed it, kind of. The Nats’ farm system is in bad enough shape (thanks to Omar “Fire Sale” Minaya and the Selig-MLB kleptocracy that ran the team between owners) that Dunn is our best 1B – and one of the three best position players on the team.
A normal team would be able to accept that Dunn is a DH pretending to be a 1B and would have someone in the minors who could make up at least some of the production lost once he was traded. We don’t.
For that reason, we have to treat him like he’s equivalent to Howard or Fielder.
To us, he is.
that’s because he pretty much is…. fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/acting-like-adam-dun…
So Mike Rizzo is worried about about Nats fans like yourself pounding his “storied” franchise! That’s as ridiculous as the asking price for Dunn who is essentially a DH! That line of thinking is what keeps a team a doormat!
It *is* a storied franchise; unfortunately, DC has been cursed with owners who didn’t agree. I wasn’t born when Calvin Griffith moved the Senators to Minnesota – and I was seven years old when Bob Short moved the Senators2.0 to Texas (after promising he wouldn’t). I waited 34 years for a team to return – and promptly bought season tickets.
I watched as the Selig-MLB kleptocracy emptied the roster at every level before we could get a real owner and then suffered through four years of a GM who never missed an opportunity to dumpster-dive the waiver wire in hopes that he could “catch lightning in a bottle” but who instead left us with a team that was a Quadruple-A team at best year in an year out.
Finally, things are looking up. If, then, this team sells off one of its best position players for a pile of beans, lots of folks like me are going to be upset – and we’ll stop buying tickets, which will make it hard to sign free agents to improve the team. We know we’re not going to win a championship anytime soon – but we’d like to hold out hope that we might someday.
Driving a hard bargain for Dunn (and not-so-secretly hoping that we don’t get it) is one step on the road. The next step is the Red Sox giving us something (anything!) for Cristian Guzman.
We’ll even throw in free shipping.
If I am Milwaukee, no Beckham = no Fielder. I’d say it’d take Beckham and another decent prospect like Hudson. Guys like Fielder don’t come around every day.
Would the Brewers give up a pitcher to make up for the loss of Hudson?
lol Dave Bush maybe, which is someone I would say “hell no” to.
The Sox can have any of the Brewer’s SPs not named Yovani Gallardo. Dave Bush is a FA after this year and is average at best. Wolf’s contract means he will probably not be tradeable. Doug Davis has been injured for most of the season and is terrible. Capuano’s elbow ligaments hang by a thread, waiting to snap at the slightest breeze. The only other guy with any value is Manny Parra, he of whom it is said, “he has potential.”
Yes we have plenty of mediocre starting pitching.
No, maybe a low level prospect at best. But that’s Fielder’s worth.
Agree, Beckham has been terrible this year. Brewers also have Weeks at 2B for next year and Escobar at SS and McGehee at 3B so I don’t know where he’d play unless the Brewers are going into full rebuilding mode, which is highly doubtful.
If Kenny wants Prince then he has to suck it up and give up Beckham because thats the only way were going to get him.
What about Jared Mitchell? He was the Sox #1 prospect headed into 2010. Seems like a sure thing over Gomez and can manage center field for years to come in Miller park. Between Mitchell, Hudson, Flowers and a few other names, the Sox seem to have the pieces to put together a solid return for the Prince.
The White Sox have seemed to me the likeliest landing spot for Prince in 2011 and beyond. They’re a large market team that can afford his asking price, and with Konerko only getting older, there’s a nice spot open to flip at 1B/DH. Plus, I’m a Brewers fan living in the Chicago suburbs. I’d get a chance to see Fielder play more than I do now. I’m cool with that.
Mitchell’s hurt. Had he not gotten hurt, he would have been an incredible trade chip.
We have Lorenzo Cain as a future CF and we have Lucroy as a rookie catcher so we don’t need Flowers or Mitchell.
It will probably need to be a 3 team trade where the White Sox can send prospects somewhere and the Brewers can get a guy they can put in their rotation right now. If the White Sox trade Hudson, they should be able to find a 5th starter somewhere, and I’m sure the Brewers would throw Dave Bush in a deal who isn’t bad aside from that 10 run game yesterday 🙂
Also, would they keep Konerko and let Fielder DH or would they be sending Konerko elsewhere in order to free up salary or set up a 3 way deal? I’m sure the Angels would be more than willing to rent him out for a year.
The sox wouldn’t trade Konerko in a race just for Fielder, sure we could plug in Dayan at first full time, but Konerko is a fan favorite.
Plus why would you trade Konerko when he is far superior player to Fielder this year.
You don’t try to downgrade in a pennant race.
If a trade where Hudson is a part of happens, don’t be surprised if you see Chris Sale, the Sox’ #1 pick this year, in a couple of starts later in the year. Carlos Torres sucks, that’s all I gotta say.
Ya because 4-1 with a 2.88 ERA in his last 10 starts sucks at AAA.
Give me a break, Carlos Torres does not suck.
check out his MLB stats , he sucks
Carlos Torres = bad ML pitcher. He has a lot of trouble throwing strikes. None of his stuff is any good either.
What would Brewers fans think of a Dodger offer of Loney, Withrow, Miller, Robinson and maybe one more B ish guy? I don’t know if you guys know our farm system but those are all in top 10 prospects. Withrow and Miller are number 1 and 2.
How close to the big leagues? We need starting pitching NOW.
All those guys are at AA. They probably wouldn’t be ready for the big league rotation until 2012, maybe a late 11 callup. Robinson is an outfielder that could contribute in 11.
Fielder is too much $ during the divorce dontcha think?
Well, next year Manny and Kuroda are free agents, so they could afford him then. Brewers would have to pay some salary this year though.
What bout getting the o’s involved? Trade matsuz, weiters, and a good AA pitcher for prince?
We don’t need a catcher.
Maybe not, but he is talking about Matt Weiters, guy was the top ranked prospect in the game just a year ago.
So what? We need pitching. He doesn’t pitch or fill a need of ours. We don’t need him.
The Orioles are not going to be contenders this year or next, and he will be a free agent after that. So the Orioles trading for Fielder makes zero sense.
Thats Chris Withrow, Aaron Miller, and Trayvon Robinson.
Here is what i wonder, with rickey weeks, escobar and mcgee where does beckham play. Unless they move Mcgeee to 1st, weeks to 3rd or beckham to 3rd…I would have to say make the deal. Yes gordon is turning it around But if this is what he is going to do every year, have a horrible 1st half then have a good second half I would not want that on my team. Plus we have people that can play 2nd in the system. Omar could play 2nd with Vicedio playing 3rd, we could bring brent morell up to play 3rd, omar plays second and vicedio plays 1st once PK leaves this season. Lilibridgs and his hot hitting ass can play second for the rest of the season..
And if prince leaves after 2011 we get 2 draft picks for him thus making gordon expendable. There is free agency and waivers and other trades out there to get a second basemen…
Keep in mind if you add a masher like fielder You can deal with not having a hot hitting 2nd basemen
Really? “If this is what he is going to do every year” You do realize that he just barely past 1 year in the Majors right? He had less than half a year in the minors, has experienced 2 position changes at the Major League level and has performed this well.
I do not want to trade Beckham at all. I would give them Hudson plus Viciedo but nothing more.
But of course 1.5 seasons of Prince Fielder is much more valuable than that.
[invader3K is right – I screwed this up. Get over yourself, DMCj.]You might not get 1.5 seasons – Fielder (and Boras) might decline arbitration and go for the big score this offseason. In that case, you get draft picks – but do you value them as much as keeping what you traded for them? [invader3K is right – I screwed this up. Get over yourself, DMCj.]
It’s not that kind of arbitration. He’ll still be under team control.
Trade Beckham and someone else(if it has to be hudson then get someone back along with prince, even if its only a fringe prospect then thats ok) But if we give up gordon and hudson then there is no way a rival GM could say no, hudson profiles as a #3 in the AL so thats probably a #2 in the NL and a very good, albeit slow starting, 2nd basemen….If its gordon, hudson and one other minor leaguer get the deal done. Then trade Vicedio and another minor leaguer or two for a pitcher….even if we dont, even if we keep vicedio as a power bat off the bench and spot 3rd/1st/DH guy and a guy to play 1st/DH next season and call torres up all torres has to do is eat innings that IT
ALTHOUGH this could accelerate the development of sale
Please tell me this is a ploy by Kenny to drive down Dunn’s price. I really don’t want my club to pay top dollar and prospects for a 300lb DH.
If it is a ploy, it won’t work. The Nats need Dunn more than the Brewers need Fielder. Neither team needs a handful of beans in exchange.
The nats need a lot more than Dunn
Bingo. And creating another hole in our already leaky boat won’t help.
Exactly…when you have 10 fingers and 11 holes, moving one finger to fill a different hole only creates a new hole…I much rather live and die with this team than to trade away a bunch of pieces to get one player to fill a hole that really has not HURT us…..
Kenny…. if we would have had a left handed power bat would it have won us 5, 10, 20 more games by now?…..?? I dont really think so.. prove everyone wrong and please your ego byy saying “look at the team I…Kenny Williams put together..I…Kenny Williams put that team together…”
Just saying!
Brewers get: Beckham, Hudson and Vicedio (Maybe one other B or C prospect)
WhiteSox get: Fielder, Weeks, and one of Manny Parra or Chris Naverson.
the way weeks is playing, I don’t think beckham would be coming to Milwaukee to play 2nd base. Weeks will be around for awhile.
so what I’m saying is the Brewers are not going to trade weeks, they can afford to keep him.
I don’t think the Brewers are asking too much for Beckham. I also don’t think they’ll get him. Even though Fielder is a great run producer, trading Beckham would create a hole at second base. Beckham + LaRoche/Scott > Fielder + Lillebridge. Although I suppose Vizquel could play 2B when Teahen comes back.
I say trade Teahen+Hudson+Linebrink+cash for Prince. If Milwaukee dont like it then oh well. Teahen can fill in at 1B or you can switch he and Casey McGhee. You have a starter in Hudson and you can either use Linebrink or flip him to a team that needs bullpen help. With all of the money that the Sox will be getting back in insurance from Peavy they can afford to send some with Teahen. I refuse to believe that they would trade away a Gold Glove caliber 2B for a power hitting 1B. It just doesn’t make sense when the White Sox are trying to re tool their team.
LOL, nobody wants Mark Teahen or Scott Linebrink.
I would certainly trade Beckham, as well as Hudson, Viciedo, and Santos if the package back was Fielder, Weeks, and Bush
santon no unless it does get you weeks….I do like the idea of fielder and weeks +pitcher for beckahm, flowers, hudson, vicedio+ minor leaguers not named morell or mitchell…consider that clears a ton of money from the brew crew, vicedio would have no place to play if you got fielder, and weeks would play for beckahm
Am i the only one that sees the orioles as a perfect fit for fielder? have the orioles send them britton, reimold, one or two other prospects fielder would be the perfect firstbasemen for the orioles and we already have matusz, tillman, and arrieta as young staples in the rotation. pure speculation but i can see that happening
The Giants should give up Baumgarner for Fielder. He seems to be and very well could be the real thing at 20 years old. It would be a risk for the Brewers, but they also know that Fielder’s body breaks down in 5 years anyway.
Beckham projects as Jeff Kent. That’s offense at a premium position. I’d much rather see the Sox take a stab at a free agent lefty 1B. Really, Adrian Gonzalez would be the best to go after.
Does that mean Beckam is going to evolve into an a$s407e too? 🙂
Beckham has a great make up to say I dont think he will… As long as he doesn’t get hurt in the offseason on a motorcycle or 4 wheeler and lie and say it was baseball related..lol
Do not trade him away for either Dunn or Fielder (Guys who are looking to get paid rather than to stay on a team and win) just my 2 cents
I do not want to see the Sox break up that clubhouse. They are in first place, what got them there? Their pitching, maybe this team Kenny and Ozzie envisioned is proving their theory. We won in 2005 without a huge lefty power bat… Yes Everett was a “homerun threat” as a lefty but he was not pure lefty slugger. Keep the team you have, think about this we will be gaining Teahen.. I know for the past 2-4 years he has always been a trade target for a lot of teams so I would consider him their positive “pick up”
Go Sox!
Their pitching is what dug them that big hole early. There was NO WAY this staff was that bad. The offense sputtered, but almost the entire staff….save a few guys was in a funk. They were looking at competing with KC and Cleveland….so they’ve come a long way. What would the Central look like if they’d just played half way decent until Memorial Day. They might be walking away.
Exactly…so trading away beckham and Hudson would not do this team any good… This team may not look like a typical “power house” team but Im fine with that… this team is made and built around starters 1-5 doing their job and timely hitting. Go sox!!
Hudson’s a 3-4th starter in the AL, which makes him a 1-2 in the NL.