Annoyed your favorite team didn't strike a deal with the Mariners for Cliff Lee? At least consider the details of Jack Zduriencik's high asking price, as reported by Joel Sherman of the New York Post.
According to Sherman, the Mariners general manager set out to acquire "an interested organization's best position prospect with less than one year of service." He was offered none better than the Rangers' Justin Smoak. The Yankees' Jesus Montero was apparently the next-best position prospect offered. Zduriencik also targeted players such as Ike Davis of the Mets, Desmond Jennings of the Rays, Domonic Brown of the Phillies, Gordon Beckham of the White Sox, and Brett Lawrie (who would've had to have come from the Brewers in a three-way deal). Sherman notes that the Mets never offered a player better than Fernando Martinez; Jenrry Mejia and Wilmer Flores "were never part of discussions."
Sherman also gets into the failed Yankees-Lee deal like only he can. He gathered that the Yankees and Mariners had a deal in principle, at which point teams expect you to stop talking to other clubs. Sherman expects the bad blood to linger, making the Yanks unwilling to deal with the Mariners in the future. The Yankees were also apparently "rankled" by Seattle's confusingly high asking price for Jarrod Washburn last summer. Another thought: an executive recently wondered aloud to me how Kevin Towers was involved in the Lee trade talks. Towers has a close relationship with both Brian Cashman and Zduriencik.
From the Rangers' point of view, GM Jon Daniels indicated today to The Ticket's Norm Hitzges that he continually had an open dialogue with the Mariners. Daniels felt that the Rangers were in second place Friday morning, until he adjusted his offer.
I would never give up my top prospect for 2 months of a player.
That’s why you’re not a GM
Sherman expects the bad blood to linger, making the Yanks unwilling to deal with the Mariners in the future.
Oh I bet if the M’s found themselves in another ‘We must rid ourselves of one of the best players in baseball’ situation again, the Yanks would have a real short memory. By the way, I thought they were already “rankled” and not in a hurry to deal with Seattle again after that whole Jarrod Washburn thing?
Just goes to show.
only if they make King Felix available other than him probablly won’t deal with the M’s
and this would be fine…. All I’m seeing here is an organization crying like a little baby after they didn’t get what they wanted.
Really, that’s ALL you see here? So you’re blind to the fact that they had a deal in principle, then the Mariners went back on their word? Plus, no one’s really crying, as we’ll get Lee in the off season anyway AND get to keep Jesus Montero. A blessing in disguise is what I see, but I’m sure you and I see things very differently.
Right…. what evidence do you have that the M’s had a deal done and Jack went back on his word? I’m betting you have none and I doubt the Yankee’s could provide such evidence either. So you get to keep Montero and supposedly will probably shell out way more than any baseball player should make to get Lee in the off season. Congratulations!!
Thanks!! You say as if paying a player what he’s worth is a BAD thing…
And as for going back on his word, read around dude, it’s the general consensus everywhere. I mean, yeah, I didn’t personally ask Jack Z of his side of the story, but that’s what reporters are here for, no? I can easily flip this silly argument on you and say something just as asinine with “what evidence do you have that the M’s never had a deal in principle with the Yanks?” I’m betting you have none either. Yet, the stories being reported from multiple, and credible, sources lean in my favor. Not yours.
And for you to blindly disregard that fact, in my opinion, is being quite divorced from the reality of the situation.
nice try but no…. Please link me your multiple sources that state Jack went back on his word. Joel Sherman reports it so it’s automatically true? C’mon man. You can’t prove he was unethical and if the reports are true then SOMEONE should be able to prove it no? Bottom line: Yankee’s missed out on Lee and now they are WHINING LIKE LITTLE GIRLS about it.
BTW I think most if not all baseball players are WAY overpaid. Yankee’s take it to the extreme.
I’ll show you mine if you show me yours. Go on, show me your evidence that Jack Z DIDN’T go back on his word after having a deal in principle. To start you off, here’s one link from Joel Sherman. Again, for you to totally disregard a credible source, especially one that many other sites, including this one, quoted… well, it’s being divorced from reality. I’m sure there are others, just… I don’t have time to research… yet. Wait till the weekend or something. Until then, I gave you one, Sherman. Your turn…
And again, whining like little girls – where? Seriously, are you delusional dude? The Yankees, as an organization, have no reason to cry because they get to keep Montero and try to get Lee in the off season. Neither are their fans, at least not the majority. Lee coming to the Yanks would be like Lebron going to the Heat aka game over. But in no way a necessity this year. I think everyone, on either side of the argument, understands that. He would be a luxury, not a necessity. So why would anyone whine or cry? The only thing I’ve read is a supposed rift between Yanks and Ms from here on… but that will probably dissipate soon enough.
Lastly, look up supply and demand. The more a player is coveted, the more he can use that leverage to add to his dollar amount. You’re only worth what someone’s willing to pay you.
I love the fact that the Yankees feel burned on this deal. Whenever there is a high priced free agent they are yearning for they tell the agent to call them after they get their best offer a la Texeira so they can top it and get the player. That is exactly what the Mariners did, they got their best offer, called a club to see if they would top it. The Rangers topped the offer and Lee gets sent to the Rangers. Boo hoo New York, someone beat you at your own game.
How the M’s handled this was Unethical and shows how classless of an organization they are. Like the article said once you have a deal in principle which they did, you stop shopping for other offers. The M’s should compensate the Yankees
I agree with what the M’s did was unethical but the Yankees will see no compensation as there weren’t any broken (official) rules.
Pot…. meet Kettle.
Pot…. meet Kettle.
The Yankees were outmaneuvered and outbid by a bankrupt team. LOL!
The deals in place were trading prospects, not money. LOL!
The Yankees were outmaneuvered and outbid by a bankrupt team. LOL!
There is a difference between an agent receiving an offer and shopping said offer around and two teams agreeing on a trade (twice, mind you), exchanging physicals of the involved players and one team still shopping the offer around.
I thought the reason it broke down is because the Yankees infield prospect (can’t remember the name) had issues during his physical or they were concerned over his health. I’ll have to find the previous post but it doesn’t sound like the physical was just a formality.
That was an issue from the past that the M’s brought up to try to make the cancellation of the deal look okay, despite the fact that David Adams showed no signs of injury. Everyone’s physicals came back fine.
Oh, I didn’t know you had access to their medical records.
Nope. I just know how to research and read. You should try it sometime.
Oh, I didn’t know you could research and read their medical records. Sounds illegal.
It’s not illegal it’s frowned upon.
Nope. I just know how to research and read. You should try it sometime.
I thought the reason it broke down is because the Yankees infield prospect (can’t remember the name) had issues during his physical or they were concerned over his health. I’ll have to find the previous post but it doesn’t sound like the physical was just a formality.
“a la Texeira” You do know that the Yanks offer for Tex wasn’t the highest.
Stop being ridiculous. If this happened to any team other than the Yankees, you’d be crying about how unethical the deal was. When you exchange physicals and agree on a deal, you don’t do what Seattle did. It’s not just the Yankees front office, other officials from around baseball are turned off by what they did. It’s not just the Yankees that will stop dealing with them, it’s a lot of other teams around baseball that will think twice before agreeing to send them players. Teams won’t trust them anymore, plain and simple. Who wants to be used to get another team to pull the trigger?You try to claim Yankees fans have a double standard and are getting a taste of their own medicine, when in fact it’s you who is letting your bias blind you from simple business etiquette. If you did this at your place of work on a sub contract say, you would be blacklisted by every firm in your sector.
“Who wants to be used to get another team to pull the trigger?”
Seriously? This happens all the time. Yanks got burned at their own game.
Now they will have to wait a few months to sign Lee, which is exactly what they will do in the off season. And they saved their stud catching prospect.
Conveniently ignoring every other point of my post to focus on one line, you might as well just admit I’m right.
Burned at their own game? The Yankees don’t go out of their way to do these things, it’s agents like Boras that try these dirty tricks. Teixeira had not signed a contract with any team or done something to indicate such like submitting to a physical, so how did he get “stolen” by the Yankees? Apparently Teixeira was very turned off by Red Sox management when they met with him and didn’t really want to sign with them anyway.
The Yankees make deals on their terms, and every team tries to demand way more of them because they are the Yankees. Give them credit for not getting used, unlike Texas, which should be embarrassed by what it submitted itself to. And to say it’s alright because it has happened before is just ridiculous. Do you think it was right for Furcal to go back on a deal he had with the Braves to sign with LA? No way, it was unethical. But because it wasn’t the Yankees, you weren’t telling them to suck it up?
You have clear and obvious bias, which renders your opinions difficult to take seriously. If this happened to anyone else, you’d be complaining too. Get over it and try seeing things objectively.
People aren’t upset because this hurt the Yankees- they’ll sign Lee anyway and keep Montero and Adams. They don’t need him, their entire rotation has been good this season. They’re upset that Seattle played dirty, and other officials around the league have been quoted on such as well.
I agree with the fact that it is wrong to agree in principal and go back on your word; but aren’t the Mariners doing the right thing by getting themselves what they deem a better haul for the player that they owned the rights too?
For example: if i agree to trade you an apple for ten M&M’s at lunch time and we are just about to make the swap and I look over at Joey and say “hey are you sure you don’t want this apple for 11 Skittles? I mean this is the best apple you’ll ever have!” Joey says “you know what, i’ll do it”. You are probably mad at me, but you can go to the store and BUY yourself an apple for tomorrow’s lunch.. But i would argue that it is my duty to get myself as many peices of candy for that one apple as i possibly could. And if i prefer skittles to M&M’s, isn’t that my business???
Im sorry that i had to go there for an example, but either way, i think if you are the Mariners and you agree in principal you haven’t actually swaped the players.
Maybe they saw something in Montero’s physical (or another peice of the trade) that wasn’t a HUGE deal and hasn’t been reported on, but was something where they decided, “you know what.. He passed the physical but there was an orange (not red) flag. B/c of that flag and the fact that there is another possible trade that we could do with another player that we love just as much (or close to as much) we’re going in a different direction.”
Again, I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone; As a sox fan i’m happy the Yankees didn’t get him, but i would be pissed if the same situation happened to the Sox.
Either way, i think it is the duty of the Mariners’ front office to get the best deal that they possibly could get. Whether it’s ethical or not, it is their duty to get the best deal not the most ethical one…And in 3/4 years if Smoak or King Felix or whomever is an impending free agent, is doing well and is on the block; the Yankees will come calling..
I agree with the fact that it is wrong to agree in principal and go back on your word; but aren’t the Mariners doing the right thing by getting themselves what they deem a better haul for the player that they owned the rights too?
For example: if i agree to trade you an apple for ten M&M’s at lunch time and we are just about to make the swap and I look over at Joey and say “hey are you sure you don’t want this apple for 11 Skittles? I mean this is the best apple you’ll ever have!” Joey says “you know what, i’ll do it”. You are probably mad at me, but you can go to the store and BUY yourself an apple for tomorrow’s lunch.. But i would argue that it is my duty to get myself as many peices of candy for that one apple as i possibly could. And if i prefer skittles to M&M’s, isn’t that my business???
Im sorry that i had to go there for an example, but either way, i think if you are the Mariners and you agree in principal you haven’t actually swaped the players.
Maybe they saw something in Montero’s physical (or another peice of the trade) that wasn’t a HUGE deal and hasn’t been reported on, but was something where they decided, “you know what.. He passed the physical but there was an orange (not red) flag. B/c of that flag and the fact that there is another possible trade that we could do with another player that we love just as much (or close to as much) we’re going in a different direction.”
Again, I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone; As a sox fan i’m happy the Yankees didn’t get him, but i would be pissed if the same situation happened to the Sox.
Either way, i think it is the duty of the Mariners’ front office to get the best deal that they possibly could get. Whether it’s ethical or not, it is their duty to get the best deal not the most ethical one…And in 3/4 years if Smoak or King Felix or whomever is an impending free agent, is doing well and is on the block; the Yankees will come calling..
Did you know that what happened with Texeira was different because Tex was the one who played the Bosux? Tex was mad with the sux front office because when he was a rookie, boston coveted his skills, so they passed the word around that Mark would go to college, so he didn’t receive offers… except from the bosox (the same way boston has acquired some of their best players in the drafts), so Mark decided not to sign with them because (he said) he felt he was being played by the sux, he went to college and re-entered the draft 3 years after that.
Tex said in an interview he returned the favor to the sux by agreeing with the yanks, he asked them not to make it public (contract signed and all, just about to be submited to the MLB Comissioner’s office), asked Theo to come to Tex’s home, they talked and they left thinking they had a deal… after that he announced he had signed with the Yanks.
Wow, not sure I believe that Tex admitted that, but if he did he is a really, really sad person. What did the current Red Sox managment/owners have to do with what happened to him back in 1998?
Also please cite some examples of other times the Red Sox have done this rather than just making baseless accusations.
Wow, not sure I believe that Tex admitted that, but if he did he is a really, really sad person. What did the current Red Sox managment/owners have to do with what happened to him back in 1998?
Also please cite some examples of other times the Red Sox have done this rather than just making baseless accusations.
If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest that you don’t refer to the Red Sox as “the sux” or “Bosux” because it makes you come across as immature. Just a piece of advice.
Fortunately for Seattle, and other teams’ willingness to deal with them, the Ms are running out of players that other teams would want at this point. So any mistrust is kind of moot.
Omar deserves a lot of credit for not getting into the hype. We have some real gems in our farm system and Thole is one of them. I think time will show he is the best catching prospect around his age group with a unique skill set. of all the teams in on the bidding the Rangers should be dubbed least like-Lee to succeed.
F-Mart was the highest prospect I would have traded for Lee, and I feel like he’s around 7 or 8th best in the Mets organization now.
I agree! Our farm system is really good. I can’t believe how well out prospects have been. Especially Ike.
I’m 90% sure that earlier this decade the Yanks “stole” David Wells away from a verbal agreement with the Diamondbacks. This is just something that happens. A written agreement is the only way you’re guaranteed anything — and they’ve done it too…
Yes, Sherman referenced this in his article.
GM is suppose to make his team better. Thats it. What if the Rangers dont make the Play-offs? They’ve been known, to hit the skids in second half.
This is has nothing to do with Texas. Is how they handle and made believe the Yanks they had a deal. No only that, but like last year and Washburn, they ask for a stupid amount of quality players. Their excuse for taking the Rangers offer was that they were concern with Adams ankle, but the Yanks agree to replace him in the deal with who they ask. After seeing the Yanks agree to that, they kept asking for more player SS E. Nuñez. I’m ok with teams asking for whatever they want, but the way they kept asking its like you doing business with a guy on craisglist.
How is the amount or quality of players you are asking for unethical? It’s called bartering.
It’s called stalling until another team gives you a better offer. Who refuses to make a deal because of concerns over an ankle sprain? If they had such a big problem with his injury, they would have worked with the Yankees to put together another package that they found acceptable, not dilly dally until they backed out of the deal entirely.
Yankees are sulking on this one. They, of all organizations, should understand that until a deal is actually finalized, an organization is obligated to do what’s in the long-term best interests.
There’s something really rotten with the game when the Yankees can’t have every player they want on their own terms. This madness must stop!
Does anyone know for sure that the M’s shopped the deal around after the agreement? Is it not possible that Texas read all the same stuff everyone else did and made a phone call on their own and upped the ante?
The Mariners purposely leaked the deal to the media to drive up the price, do you seriously think it was spontaneous?
Stop with the ridiculousness. Seattle even tried to tell the media the Yankees *may* be interested in Lee to try to get other teams interested when they weren’t even seriously targeting him earlier in June.
Submitting the physicals is typically a mere formality on the path to making the deal. They didn’t back out because of concerns about an ankle sprain, they backed out because they got a better deal. That is unethical.
Again, if you did something like that in a normal business, the company you shafted would probably never deal with you again. Just because it happened to a team that you clearly hate, it doesn’t mean you can’t see this objectively.
Every team leaks information. Welcome to the internet age, glad you could get savvy to how it’s run. This happens in business all the time. Get over it.
Everything I say you just write off as “part of the game.”
If you did these things in the business world, nobody would ever want to deal with you again. It’s common business etiquette.
How do you think a major firm treats an employee that leaks to the media that they are on the verge of acquiring another company? They probably get fired and blacklisted by every firm in the industry. The Yankees keep these things quiet because unlike Seattle, they behave ethically.
Seattle had a ton to gain by being unethical, but that doesn’t make what they did right. What team are you a fan of? Answer honestly, because I bet it’s one that has quite a lot of reasons to hate the Yankees.
I would suggest ignoring Joe, he is one of those typical blind anti-Yanks fans.
How would you be responding to this if it happened the other way around, with Texas getting the shaft and the Yankees getting Lee? Answer honestly, because I bet you wouldn’t care.
The Yankees don’t do these things though because they do act ethically, so saying that is baseless. If the Yankees did do it though, I would still feel they acted unethically. I wouldn’t be upset about having the player, but I’d certainly take some heat from fans of other teams and rightfully so. At least I’d have the guts to admit that even though they had the player, they were probably right that the deal went down in a less than sterling fashion.
If this happened to any team other than the Yankees, you’d be questioning what went down and you know it. Stop being a hypocrite and own up to it.
Maybe you’re right. Maybe I would be more interested in questioning the deal if it happened to some other team.But that’s probably because this is the first time that the Yankees didn’t get exactly what the wanted in what, a dozen years?As a matter of fact, maybe I’m a little happy that this happened to the Yankees. It was a bit unethical, but it certainly wasn’t illegal, and it’s certainly no worse than what the Yankees did to the D-Backs with David Wells a few years back. Maybe Seattle was even a little wary of dealing Lee to the Yankees because, deep down, they didn’t want to see the Yankees cruise to yet another World Series win. Of course, the whole “getting the best players they possibly could” thing was probably the main motivation for Jack Z.Anyway, maybe this will be a wake-up call to MLB that something needs to be done to change the financial landscape. I’m not talking about a salary cap, more like getting rid of guaranteed contracts or, even better, putting a third team in the NY market. The fact that Yankee fans can sit back and say, with almost 100% certainty, “Oh well, we’ll get him in December” should be enough to show that something needs to change.
Lol! Ya gotta stop doing that when I’m drinking milk. “The Yankees don’t do these things though because they do act ethically”. That might be the funniest thing I’ve ever heard.
Provide an example of a way in which the YANKEES have acted unethically in the last 10 years, or stop with the nonsense. Don’t think about the David Wells move, because that was the PLAYER who backed out of the deal.
Provide an example of a way in which the YANKEES have acted unethically in the last 10 years, or stop with the nonsense. Don’t think about the David Wells move, because that was the PLAYER who backed out of the deal.
Lol! Ya gotta stop doing that when I’m drinking milk. “The Yankees don’t do these things though because they do act ethically”. That might be the funniest thing I’ve ever heard.
“The Mariners purposely leaked the deal to the media to drive up the price, do you seriously think it was spontaneous?”
This is just a silly statement.
Jack Z is NOTORIOUSLY tight lipped with the media. Look at the coverage of the trade. This website has a very extensive list of all the media updates. The vast majority of the posts are from New York media outlets. Think that’s a coincidence?
The Yankees always do their negotiations through the media. They leak more information to the media than any other club. If this deal hadn’t involved the Yankees, none of this stuff would have been made public. They pulled the same BS with the Washburn near-deal last season.
If a club wants to deal with the Yanks, they might as well just put the negotiations directly on ESPN. Because the Yankees front office is the most porous in baseball.
Yankees09 has the audacity to blame another club for being unethical. And the Yankees have the audacity to suggest they will blackball the M’s for acting in their own best interest. Seriously???? Maybe the Yankees should stop airing their dirty laundry in public before they start making accusations about other clubs.
Why would the Yankees leak the news that they are about to finish the deal?
What do the Yankees have to gain from leaking an impending deal and getting more teams to up their offers and get back into the negotiations?
Do you even think before you post this nonsense?
When the Yankees traded for Vazquez back in December, not one media outlet could get the scoop until the trade was official. All they knew was that a trade may be going down for a starting pitcher, but nothing else. The Yankees have plenty of control over their front office, but Seattle on the other hand? They had officials quoted as early as June trying to create the perception that the Yankees were interested in Lee when they hadn’t even met as an organization to set their trade priorities.
Why would the Yankees leak the news that they are about to finish the deal?
What do the Yankees have to gain from leaking an impending deal and getting more teams to up their offers and get back into the negotiations?
Do you even think before you post this nonsense?
When the Yankees traded for Vazquez back in December, not one media outlet could get the scoop until the trade was official. All they knew was that a trade may be going down for a starting pitcher, but nothing else. The Yankees have plenty of control over their front office, but Seattle on the other hand? They had officials quoted as early as June trying to create the perception that the Yankees were interested in Lee when they hadn’t even met as an organization to set their trade priorities.
Whatever, the Yankees only hurt themselves by closing themselves off to trade for feeling insulted.
Whatever, the Yankees only hurt themselves by closing themselves off to trade for feeling insulted.
Damn. I can’t believe the M’s treated the Yankees with such unethical practices of taking another teams offer. I guess the only ethical response that the Yankees can respond with is to sign Cliff Lee to a 4 year/ 400 million dollar contract.
So let me know what happens when as the contract manager of your business, you back out of a deal you pretty much had locked up with another company only to take a deal from one of their competitors? I’m sure they will be hesitant to do business with you again, and recognizing such your organization will probably let you go.
The Seattle GM did what was best in the short run, but burned his bridges for the long term. I’m sure the owner cannot be too thrilled with what went down, especially considering that Justin Smoak in the end may not end up being that much better a hitting first baseman than Jesus Montero.
“It’s my party I can cry if I want to, cry if I want to, cry if I want to…”
An immature response like that pretty much tells me you can’t refute my point. Thanks for making it so easy.
Dude. You sound ridiculous. Just stop already. I dare you to tell me that the Yankees don’t and historically haven’t engaged in unethical practices. Do you want me to name a few to refute your point? The Yankees are going to overpay once again for the best free agent this offseason (Cliff Lee) and possibly the top two or three free agents available (Werth or Crawford). In the end, you still get your man without giving up your beloved Montero. Please don’t talk about “ethics” and “Yankees” in the same sentence. I don’t see why you’re wining.
“Big girls don’t cry, big girls don’t cry, they don’t cry yi yi!”
Yes, I challenge you to post some “unethical practices” the Yankees have engaged in lately. Don’t go back to citing things from the 70’s and 80’s because those were under completely different front office people. Things that players and agents have done don’t count either.
The Yankees overpay for guys? So what, they pay these guys what they are going to get anyway on the market if they let 2 or 3 other teams enter into the bidding, they’d rather just lock them up immediately and not take the chance. The Yankees have built a strong business model and are taking advantage of their success.
If the Yankees were a .500 team every year, the fans wouldn’t come- look at what happened to the Mets last year. Yankee Stadium was empty in the early 90’s. If your team has a front office that doesn’t try to win, then it’s their own fault that they can’t afford to sign guys as they claim (even though their entire payrolls in some cases are paid for through revenue sharing).
I don’t think you know jack about the “business world”. You keep referencing it like you know what people can and can’t get away with and I couldn’t disagree with you more.
I’ve worked in the business world and watched some questionable to felonious characters pull totally bogus stunts– stuff the moral police would crap their pants over– and in no way are they blacklisted by the “business world” or anyone for that matter.
As long as the “real world businessman” isn’t a total crackpot, and they have what others want, they will be in business. People who can sell themselves and make things happen rule the “business world”.
In fact, being unscrupulous at times can pay huge dividends. It’s always smart to pick those times when it really matters, ala Smoak, (if that is what really happened).
Different front office people? You mean a Steinbrenner? Kind of like how a Steinbrenner is running things now? Same people, same ethics. And I can’t mention 70’s, 80’s or the David Wells situation because they “don’t count”? Dude, just stop already.
Mark Teixeira.
Dude. You sound ridiculous. Just stop already. I dare you to tell me that the Yankees don’t and historically haven’t engaged in unethical practices. Do you want me to name a few to refute your point? The Yankees are going to overpay once again for the best free agent this offseason (Cliff Lee) and possibly the top two or three free agents available (Werth or Crawford). In the end, you still get your man without giving up your beloved Montero. Please don’t talk about “ethics” and “Yankees” in the same sentence. I don’t see why you’re wining.
“Big girls don’t cry, big girls don’t cry, they don’t cry yi yi!”
Or both of them will be .300/30/100 hitters. Or neither of them will pan out. But that’s baseball. Trading for or signing a player is always a gamble. And Jack Z took the biggest gamble of all, possibly burning bridges with several organizations.
But, you know, I’m going to go ahead and say that, in four of five years, if the Mariners are selling and Justin Smoak is hitting .320 with 18 home runs at the break, all of those bridges are going to be rebuilt.
Or both of them will be .300/30/100 hitters. Or neither of them will pan out. But that’s baseball. Trading for or signing a player is always a gamble. And Jack Z took the biggest gamble of all, possibly burning bridges with several organizations.
But, you know, I’m going to go ahead and say that, in four of five years, if the Mariners are selling and Justin Smoak is hitting .320 with 18 home runs at the break, all of those bridges are going to be rebuilt.
Just read the Sherman article. How about this pararaph:
“So the Yanks were surprised when the Mariners asked for their best Triple-A position prospect then, as well, in Austin Jackson plus either Zach McAllister or Manuel Banuelos. The Yanks refused that request and Seattle never came down from asking from Jackson. The Yanks left that process confused, as well, because the Mariners ultimately accepted Mauricio Robles and Luke French from the Tigers, and the Yanks viewed that duo as far inferior to Jackson. The Yanks felt Seattle asked them for way more than they ended up accepting.”
I was unaware that Brian Cashman is a 14-year-old girl. “Waaaah they asked us for too much! Waaaah they overplayed their hand and were forced to take a lot less than what they asked us for! Waah!”
What a joke…
They were surprised that Seattle would take so little when they were asking for so much. How is that crying? Every general manager was probably wondering the same thing. When you try to use teams like that, they will try to make you look bad in public as revenge. That’s the same thing that is happening right now, and that’s the risk you take.
And you are right, he did take the ultimate risk in burning his bridges. If you were going to get similar quality center pieces to the deal, then the owner must be wondering why his GM was willing to risk such, especially with a team that may be looking to trade other pieces before the deadline this year.
Why were they surprised though? That doesn’t make any sense.
The M’s asked them for a ton, the Yankees said no. The M’s realized that they weren’t getting as much as they were asking for and ended up settling for a lot less.
That’s just common sense.
Why were they surprised though? That doesn’t make any sense.
The M’s asked them for a ton, the Yankees said no. The M’s realized that they weren’t getting as much as they were asking for and ended up settling for a lot less.
That’s just common sense.
They were surprised that Seattle would take so little when they were asking for so much. How is that crying? Every general manager was probably wondering the same thing. When you try to use teams like that, they will try to make you look bad in public as revenge. That’s the same thing that is happening right now, and that’s the risk you take.
And you are right, he did take the ultimate risk in burning his bridges. If you were going to get similar quality center pieces to the deal, then the owner must be wondering why his GM was willing to risk such, especially with a team that may be looking to trade other pieces before the deadline this year.
I can’t be the only one who believes Jesus Montero>Smoak.
I understand though the other prospects coming from TEX were clearly better than Adams.
I totally agree with you. If I were the M’s I would have taken the Yankee deal and moved on. As a White Sox there was no way they were going to get Beckham for a 2 month rental. Congratulations M’s your going to continue to suck.
That was a ridiculous post. The only reason the M’s wouldn’t get Beckham for Lee is that the White Sox aren’t as good as the Yanks and couldn’t absorb the hit. It’s not like Chicago is “smarter”.
As an M’s fan I too question Smoak vs. Montero. Montero sounds like a monster. However, I understand Smoak to be closer to major league ready, to have a definite position, and to be a good on defense. Montero, in all his studliness, isn’t any of those things. Montero may never have a defensive position. Montero may be three or four years away from contributing. And the peripheral package was stronger in Texas. It makes sense for what the M’s are trying to accomplish.
And yes, the M’s will continue to suck. For another year or two. Watch out, White Sox fan. You guys are potentially on the brink of Houston Astros-like collapse.
I totally agree with you. If I were the M’s I would have taken the Yankee deal and moved on. As a White Sox there was no way they were going to get Beckham for a 2 month rental. Congratulations M’s your going to continue to suck.
I can’t be the only one who believes Jesus Montero>Smoak.
I understand though the other prospects coming from TEX were clearly better than Adams.
I’d rather have smoke as he is more major league ready also this article is a joke…anyone who has been following this knows that it was pending medical reports and the mariners obviosly didnt like what they saw and withdrew from talks its that simple
you can complain all you want new york fact is you dont know what was in the reports only the M’s and yanks do so you have no bussines calling the M’s unethical
typical new york media
Yeah. How about the Yankees knowing full well that “damaged goods” Adams injury was worse then they originally let on. Ethical?
How about the full story? M’s wanted Adam Warren instead and the Yanks said ok. So the M’s also requested SS Eduardo Nunez.
How about the full story? M’s wanted Adam Warren instead and the Yanks said ok. So the M’s also requested SS Eduardo Nunez.
Yeah. How about the Yankees knowing full well that “damaged goods” Adams injury was worse then they originally let on. Ethical?
Why does everyone keep talking about the Yankees going after King Felix when he’s a free agent?? The Yankee skipper doesn’t even think he’s an all-star! Yeah, Felix can’t wait to join a club that treats him like crap.
Why does everyone keep talking about the Yankees going after King Felix when he’s a free agent?? The Yankee skipper doesn’t even think he’s an all-star! Yeah, Felix can’t wait to join a club that treats him like crap.
The Yankees totally leaked the deal to the media because it’s not something the Mariners have done in the past (at least with the current regime). Consider the deal the brought Cliff Lee to the Mariners last winter. Everyone reported that Halladay was going from Toronto to Philadelphia, and that Cliff Lee was going somewhere else, but nobody was quite sure where. The M’s play things close to the vest in all negotiations. I don’t have a problem with what the M’s did. The Yankees said, “here is our best/final offer”. The M’s said, “we’ll get back to you”. They called Texas and said, “here is what NY is offering, can you beat it?” This is how negotiations in most business work. If I want to remodel my house, and get estimates for it. If I’m trying to get the best price, I shop around a bit and disclose the other estimates if I feel like I’m being taken for a ride.
The M’s have a lot of needs going forward. I’m happy with this package because it gives us a switch hitting first baseman (who doesn’t play defense like a starfish with a glove on), a utility infielder, a solid number 3/4 starter, and a strikeout pitcher for the 7th/8th inning.
Currently, fans overvalue the prospects of their team. This is, in large part, thanks to the Rays World Series run with mostly homegrown players. I’ve got news for you guys: all prospects do not pan out. If the M’s are lucky, one of the four players they received will pan out. The big word is potential. They might work out, they might not.
The Yankees totally leaked the deal to the media because it’s not something the Mariners have done in the past (at least with the current regime). Consider the deal the brought Cliff Lee to the Mariners last winter. Everyone reported that Halladay was going from Toronto to Philadelphia, and that Cliff Lee was going somewhere else, but nobody was quite sure where. The M’s play things close to the vest in all negotiations. I don’t have a problem with what the M’s did. The Yankees said, “here is our best/final offer”. The M’s said, “we’ll get back to you”. They called Texas and said, “here is what NY is offering, can you beat it?” This is how negotiations in most business work. If I want to remodel my house, and get estimates for it. If I’m trying to get the best price, I shop around a bit and disclose the other estimates if I feel like I’m being taken for a ride.
The M’s have a lot of needs going forward. I’m happy with this package because it gives us a switch hitting first baseman (who doesn’t play defense like a starfish with a glove on), a utility infielder, a solid number 3/4 starter, and a strikeout pitcher for the 7th/8th inning.
Currently, fans overvalue the prospects of their team. This is, in large part, thanks to the Rays World Series run with mostly homegrown players. I’ve got news for you guys: all prospects do not pan out. If the M’s are lucky, one of the four players they received will pan out. The big word is potential. They might work out, they might not.
Two things. A deal is never a deal until both parties conclude the negotiations and “sign the papers”. There is nothing “unethical” about taking an offer and shopping it for a better one – that’s how the marketplace works. Apparently, the Mariners went back to the Yankees and told them they have a better offer on the table and offered the Yankees a chance to sweeten the deal and the Yankees said no.
Why is it “unethical” for a team to leverage one teams offer to extract a better offer from another team? As I understand it, in MLB the deal isn’t official until the papers are sent and received in the Commissioner’s office.
And, lets face it. The Yankees are the wealthiest and most powerful team in baseball. That they got played by two less wealthy and less powerful teams may be painful for Yankee fans, but the rest of us sort of like seeing the spoiled, rich kid get played for once.
Remind me how the Yankees got “played” as you put it? The Texas Rangers were the ones that got played, giving up Smoak and 3 other prospects for Cliff Lee and a reliever who is out for the season. The Yankees offered the Mariners what was fair market value for a pitcher like Cliff Lee, and they didn’t overpay when Seattle negotiated behind their back like that to try to drive the price up.
If anything, the Yankees should be applauded for standing their ground and refusing to overpay like they had done in the past. They are winning because they are making smart moves, not just because they have money.
Oh well the Mariners are the bad guys, your still crying about not getting your man.
Keep trying that tired excuse. I don’t care about getting Cliff Lee, he represented a marginal upgrade over who the Yankees are throwing out there right now. The problem is the general manager, who clearly engaged in unethical business practices. If another team outbid them so be it, but they had a deal and he went back on it.
You couldn’t be more wrong Yankees009. What separates the Yankees from everyone else is their money, not their “smart moves”. They win because they can afford to sign whomever they want and to carry contracts that other teams cannot. Every MLB team makes some good moves and some that are not so good. The Yanks are no different. But, the Yankees with their deep pockets can afford to make mistakes that most other teams cannot. And, if they really need to fill a hole or two, they simply buy the best free agents that other most other teams cannot affort.
Yes, it was the Yankees who got played. As they have been complaining about, they thought they had secured Cliff Lee – a “very special case” as they called him -for less the Mariners wanted. Instead, the Mariners used the Yankees offer to persuade Texas to give up the player the Mariners coveted (Smoak).
I don’t think anyone outside of yourself and some other Yankee fans will applaud the Yankees for “not overpaying”. To “overpay” means that one paid more than they needed to pay to acquire something they wanted. The Rangers didn’t overpay to get Cliff Lee, they simply paid the “fair market value” that you referred. Obviously, Seattle believed the Yankees was not fair market value or, it was exceeded by an offer of higher market value.
I am still waiting to hear how this whole process was “unethical”. When Texas topped the Yankees offer, the Mariners went back to the Yankees (at least, that is what’s being reported) and gave them a chance to sweeten their offer, which was the right and fair thing to do. The Yankees are not naive; at that point they knew this was an auctiion and they had to bid higher to stay in it. When the Yanks said no, the Mariners took the best offer on the board.
Yeah, the 206 million dollar payroll has nothing to do with the yankees winning.
Remind me how the Yankees got “played” as you put it? The Texas Rangers were the ones that got played, giving up Smoak and 3 other prospects for Cliff Lee and a reliever who is out for the season. The Yankees offered the Mariners what was fair market value for a pitcher like Cliff Lee, and they didn’t overpay when Seattle negotiated behind their back like that to try to drive the price up.
If anything, the Yankees should be applauded for standing their ground and refusing to overpay like they had done in the past. They are winning because they are making smart moves, not just because they have money.
I am a fan of the New York Yankees, and I disapprove over he whiny attitudes of my constituents.
seriously, you need to get a life … spending hours upon hours on this board crying like a little baby about how you guys got screwed. Get over it little girl. Jack Z did what he is supposed to do, get the best deal for his team … and if you really think other teams aren’t going to do business with him you are insane. You think any other front office in MLB likes the yankees and their 200+ million dollar payroll??? They are probably all laughing at your front office, not feeling sorry for them. So here is the bottom line: you need to get a life, everyone will still trade with the Mariners, and if you think otherwise you are even more of a fool than you are a little whining baby.
Everything you just said is rendered irrelevant by your use of the tired “200 million payroll” argument. Try to post something intelligent instead of just spewing the media’s favorite line. How much good did the payroll do in most of the last decade? How much good did the payroll do for a team like the Mets and Tigers? It’s about intelligent spending as much as spending.
again – get a life and get over it. Nobody (including every other front office in MLB) feels sorry for you guys.
No it’s not. It’s about having so much more to spend that you can go out every year and get the top players on the market and create an all-star team. So what if one of them fails? Just go get another next year!
As a bonus, you never HAVE to trade away your promising prospects like most other teams have to if they ever get into the rare position of have a shot at a World Series.
For the amount of top players the NYY sign, they should average about 120 wins per season. But year after year, they way underperform, and are forced to upgrade or fix certain positions and raise the payroll again.
I don’t begrudge the Yanks for being so rich they can (try to) buy titles. It’s not fair or equitable, but that’s the game. I guess it’s good for baseball to have the dominant team in the largest market. So spend away! Go get Lee and Crawford so you can compete next year!
I’ve said 10 times in the last 3 or 4 days and I will continue to do so, the Mariners TOOK THE WRONG DEAL. I’m still amazed that the deal that transpired last Friday is still actually the deal that got done. It’s a little sureal when I think of it. They have no choice but to release Lueke. None whatsoever or the ramifications in the public relations department are going to be drastic. They got 2 other POS scraps and Smoak. I share the same concerns as others that Smoak could go either way. He is not a guy that is going to hit for average long term.
But they had Montero # 5 or 6 depending on who’s rating Zack McCalllister who has been another one of the Yanks upper end prospects and Adams, who has a light ankle sprain and has a lot of potential. I can see how an ankle sprain pales in comparison to a rape charge and why the ankle sprain would be a concern. huh? oh…
Mind boggleing I tell you and let’s not forget the other variables of in the division, etc. Oh plus they sent $2.5mm in cash. Makes even more sense. (scratching my head and now my backend)
I was a big fan a Jack Z and taking this team to another level, but this trade was his worst move yet since being in that front office.
Rangers come out big winners and I’m amazed Daniels swindled this deal.
Oh yeah and every other commenter on here that challenge the Yanks deserved this is complete moron.
Right. Those Rangers came out big winners trading one of their best prospects for a 2 month rental of Cliff Lee who will not re-sign with them. Again. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
and yes. The Yankee’s did deserve this.
Seattle took the wrong deal??? I don’t even know where to begin to argue that.
A switch-hitting first baseman who can contribute NOW and is an ELITE prospect, hits better from the left (Safeco is a lefthanded batters park), plays above average defense, AND a 6-7, 21 year old pitcher who baseball america calls the best prospect in the deal (yep, look it up) who has era in the two’s in double A is the wrong deal??!!?
That’s obsurd and you ARE the weakest link!
I also want to add that the Mariners did the same thing last year with Washburn. I think Jack Z has hard one for trying to play with Cashman and the big boys. He wanted A. Jackson as a starting peice for Washburn and then turns around and sends him to Detroit for two players that have no last name, no longer play or will be featured in the Newark Bears line-ups.
The fact that he got anything for Washburn (who’s sitting at home right now) shows that the M’s got the better end of that deal.
The M’s got a younger version of Washburn in Luke French along with Mauricio Robles whom is only 21. Both young starting pitching prospects and both currently playing in the M’s farm system. Please know what you’re talking about before posting. Thanks.
This is ridiculous. Did anyone actually take into account that it wouldn’t need to go as far as exchanging physicals with the Yankees for Seattle to get Texas to add Smoak? All Jack Z would have had to do was tell Daniels that he was going to trade Cliff Lee to the Yankees for Montero and Co., and Daniels would have quickly pulled the ‘untouchable’ tag off of Smoak.
Does anybody HONESTLY think that Jon Daniels waited all that time, until he heard that physicals were being exchanged, to throw in Smoak? COMMON SENSE!!!
I’m going to offer up my theory, which is 99% likely. The M’s actually DID have an interest in Montero, who is a higher rated prospect, who is likely a better hitter, who is 20(!) holding his own in triple A.
The deal fell apart for other reasons and Jack moved on. This is baseball…. this happens. If you can’t see that then you’re likely as dumb as you think Jacky Z is.
The Mets could have gotten Lee last year, but Omar refused to give up F-Mart. Omar is ruinging the franchise. In the past three years, we could have gotten the worl for Lastings Milledge and F-mart. but Omar doesnt make a move and milledge gets released for nothing and Fmart cannot make the roster, nor will he next year.
I love the fact that the Yankees feel burned on this deal. Whenever there is a high priced free agent they are yearning for they tell the agent to call them after they get their best offer a la Texeira so they can top it and get the player. That is exactly what the Mariners did, they got their best offer, called a club to see if they would top it. The Rangers topped the offer and Lee gets sent to the Rangers. Boo hoo New York, someone beat you at your own game.
————————————
For the record, I could careless about not getting Lee. In my opinion, it was a poor use of resources considering we need anoter bat, IF depth and a 8th inning guy.
Here’s the difference between trade etiquette and FA etiquette:
A) Trade. The holding team selects the players they desire.
Hey M’s we are interested in trading for Lee. We would like to offer you Montero and ???????.
No…No way Cashman. I need Montero and ????? and ???????.
Wow, I don’t know. I can offer you Montero, ??????? and ???????.
I tell you what Cashman. Give me Montero, Dave Adams and ?????.
Really (sigh). Of so if I give you Montero, Adams and ????? then we have a deal right?
Sure…
(5 minutes later) Heeeeyyyyy Nolan. Look the Yanks have come back w/ their final offer. I’m trading Lee to them unless you cave in and give me Smoak, and the other 3 guys I asked for”!!!
b) Free Agent Signing. Open to the highest bidder.
“Hey Lee. We want you badly in the Bronx. Here is our offer”.
“Ok Cash. We just started taking offers so we have to listen to the others”.
“Ok, I think mine is going to be the best but hit me back when you’ve narrowed things down.
“Hey Cash. I have an offer we’re considering for 4/80 mil. Lee really wants a guaranteed 5th year and a little more money to uproot his family to NY. If you can go 5/105 then we have a deal”.
“GREAT! Let me clear it with the Boss but we should have a deal”.
The Yanks need another bat? A-Rod, Teixeira, Cano, Jeter, and Swisher aren’t enough? This is HILARIOUS. Most teams have a whole line-up full of Marcus Thames’ and are lucky to have a Teixeira or Jeter.
Also, allow me to tweak your story a little:
………..Really (sigh). Of so if I give you Montero, Adams and ????? then we have a deal right?
sure…..
(4 minutes later) “Oh, I don’t like this ankle injury in Adams’ physical. If I’m trading Lee I’m going to need players without injury question marks. Throw in ????????”
“Nope, this is our final and best offer, take it or leave it”
“Okay, let me think on it”
(5 minutes later) Heeeeyyyyy Nolan. Look the Yanks have come back w/ their final offer. I’m trading Lee to them unless you cave in and give me Smoak, and the other 3 guys I asked for”!!!
Also:
b) Free Agent Signing. Open to the highest bidder.
“Hey Lee. We’re interested here in the Bronx. Keep us posted”.
“Ok Cash. We just started taking offers.”
“Ok, I think mine is going to be the best but hit me back when you’ve narrowed things down.”
“Hey Cash, the offers are in. I have an offer we’re considering for 4/80 mil.”.
“GREAT! Let me clear it with the Boss but we should be able to offer 15 years at 60 mill per.”
Obvious exaggeration but you get the jist. This is how the Yankees work. “Keep us posted,” or, “their kicking the tires,” or, “they are staying out of it for now.”
Hey, if you can afford to do it then it’s your money. There will always be people complaining about how free-enterprise isn’t fair. But I don’t want to hear all of the crying when they are outbid after making their final offer.
I’m confused, in both cases it seems like the guy who has the player (trading team’s GM or player’s agent) has the cards and decides if the deal is happening or not??
I understand that they are two different scenarios, but i am affraid you waisted your time b/c i don’t see the point?
Isn’t it up to the GM who’s got the coveted player or his agent (if he’s a FA) to get the best deal for either the team he is trying to improve or the player he is representing?
The Yanks need another bat? A-Rod, Teixeira, Cano, Jeter, and Swisher aren’t enough? This is HILARIOUS. Most teams have a whole line-up full of Marcus Thames’ and are lucky to have a Teixeira or Jeter.
Also, allow me to tweak your story a little:
………..Really (sigh). Of so if I give you Montero, Adams and ????? then we have a deal right?
sure…..
(4 minutes later) “Oh, I don’t like this ankle injury in Adams’ physical. If I’m trading Lee I’m going to need players without injury question marks. Throw in ????????”
“Nope, this is our final and best offer, take it or leave it”
“Okay, let me think on it”
(5 minutes later) Heeeeyyyyy Nolan. Look the Yanks have come back w/ their final offer. I’m trading Lee to them unless you cave in and give me Smoak, and the other 3 guys I asked for”!!!
Also:
b) Free Agent Signing. Open to the highest bidder.
“Hey Lee. We’re interested here in the Bronx. Keep us posted”.
“Ok Cash. We just started taking offers.”
“Ok, I think mine is going to be the best but hit me back when you’ve narrowed things down.”
“Hey Cash, the offers are in. I have an offer we’re considering for 4/80 mil.”.
“GREAT! Let me clear it with the Boss but we should be able to offer 15 years at 60 mill per.”
Obvious exaggeration but you get the jist. This is how the Yankees work. “Keep us posted,” or, “their kicking the tires,” or, “they are staying out of it for now.”
Hey, if you can afford to do it then it’s your money. There will always be people complaining about how free-enterprise isn’t fair. But I don’t want to hear all of the crying when they are outbid after making their final offer.
I think the Yankees are just pissed that they didn’t get Lee. Sour grapes. Who are these “other GMs” that think what the M’s did was wrong? Many baseball trades have fallen apart at the last minute. Maybe the injury was worse then they thought, maybe the fact taht Montero can’t play the field gave them cold feet. There could be a variety of reasons that the deal fell through. The Rangers saw a gillmer of light and took full advantage. Its business. I don’t think there is anything unethical about it at all.
I’ve seen Montero last year (including the EL ALL Stars), kid can hit. He started slow this year, but I bet he’ll hit .300 by seasons end. Sometimes the best trades are ones that you never make.
Montero started slow but the kid is 20 years old in AAA (a lot of people forget that.) This is his first year seeing this quality of pitching and he’s holding his own…. plus, he’s been raking lately. He’ll be fine.
Im happy the mets didn’t over pay to get Lee i think it was smart to lay off and keep there young guns. I believe a pitcher like Ted Lilly would be a much smarter move foe the mets.