A series of articles from WEEI's Alex Speier and Rob Bradford dig into pressing Red Sox issues…
- Speier looks at Boston's current tricky situation in regard to the trade deadline. Available star players are harder to come by than last year. The return dates of many injured Sox are unknown. Plus the Red Sox might not have the right trade chips to make a deal or the payroll space to accomodate a decent-sized salary.
- Bradford examines the future. Out of Victor Martinez, Adrian Beltre, and David Ortiz, who returns for 2011? Kevin Youkilis' future position may depend on which players Boston brings back for 2011.
- Speier talked to David DeJesus' former teammate John Buck, who feels the underrated outfielder would be a great fit for a contender. It'd be DeJesus' first taste of a pennant race.
I think the Sox will resign Martinez and Ortiz. I’d love for them to resign Beltre but he is going to want top dollar on the market and I don’t really want to see the sox pay that much plus the 3B market is pretty bad. I would like to see the Sox aggressively pursue Crawford and relegate Cameron to a back up role even though I really like Cameron and respect him for playing through injury pretty much all year.
The Sox shouldn’t re-sign Ortiz or Martinez. Martinez hasn’t shown us a bat this year–even when healthy–and he is a terrible defending catcher. Ortiz is too streaky and struggles in clutch moments. He strikes out too much and is completely vulnerable to lefty pitchers. Moreover, both players would want more money than they’re worth; as would Beltre. As for Cameron, he should be designated for assignment at the end of the year. Finally, with all the payroll the Sox have coming off the books at the end of this year, they have a fair amount of money to play with in regards to free agents.
Then who will catch? And who will DH? And why would you drop Cameron? Guy is playing through a sports hernia and isn’t doing that bad compared to what they were expecting from him.
I’d like to see the Sox make a move for Miguel Montero or John Buck. I’d also like to see the Sox package a deal around Lars Anderson and Josh Reddick for Adrian Gonzalez; which would move Youk back to 3rd. Lastly, I think it’s time for the Sox to trade Papelbon. He’s become a fastball only closer and it’s not doing him well. I believe he would be a free agent after 2011, so trade him now, and promote Bard to the closer role. The DH role is easy to fill. Say what you like, but Papi hasn’t been anything special since he hasn’t had Manny protecting him.
I would rather want miguel cabrera then adrian. 1. miguel is a better hitter and he has showed he can hit in the AL.
2. hes under contract.
3. hes 1 year younger than adrian.
we could package a deal around elsbury and papelbon maybe.
I think they missed the boat on Miguel though. I was screaming during the past offseason to get him but they didn’t
You want a perennial contending team to trade it’s best player for a closer they don’t need and an overrated outfielder? Is Miguel Cabrera to the Red Sox going to be the annoying trade proposal off the offseason? This one is bound to work, remember when you traded for Agon? Oh wait
Why would the tigers want Papelbon? and why would they part with Miggy when only receiving a RP they dont really need (Valverde, Ryan Perry in the wings) and another Austin Jackson that steals more bases?? Giving up on Miggy and trading him to Boston is a ridiculous idea, even in your dream land… he’s going to contend for the triple crown this year…
Tigers can’t really afford his contract. the red sox could take ALL his contract and the tigers would get a really nice haul of prospects.
A team with a 120mm payroll that routinely sells out games can’t afford to pay it’s star player 20mm a year? You are in La La land, even for a Red Sox fan
They had to trade off Jackson and Granderson to save payroll
The Tigers payroll is 18MM more than it was last season, and those two players make a combined 9.7MM this year. Plus, Detroit has a TON of money coming off the books over the next 2 years, there is no way they trade Miggy, and if they did, it wouldn’t be for financial reasons.
I know. The only reason trading Miguel came up last season was as a money saving thing but they traded Granderson and Jackson which should have put an end to any questions about needing to trade Miguel.
Just from a quick look at the DH market and assuming Vlad’s option is picked up, Ortiz will be the best pure DH on the market. And I don’t see Montero being moved at this point.
Ever heard of Adam Dunn?
And that was why I put a quick look at the DH market and since Dunn isn’t a DH I didn’t notice him and forgot about him. I’ve been wanting Dunn for a while and would prefer him over Ortiz.
“I’d like to see the Sox make a move for Miguel Montero”
“I’d also like to see the Sox package a deal around Lars Anderson and Josh Reddick for Adrian Gonzalez”
I’d like to open my freezer and see it filled with neatly stacked $100 bills. I my scenario is more likely than 2 guys who are struggling in AAA being dealt for a superstar or Arizona dealing their young, cheap hitting-out-of-his-mind catcher.
“move Youk back to 3rd”
This isn’t happening. The days of Youkilis as a f/t 3B are gone.
You really think that the Padres will trade away A-Gon for a package centered around Anderson and Reddick? Keep dreaming.
“Martinez hasn’t shown us a bat this year–even when healthy”
He had a bad March/April and a very good May followed by an unstoppable June in which he was one of the best hitters in baseball. Maybe you missed that.
“Moreover, both players would want more money than they’re worth”
Ortiz definitely proved this when he signed his last contract — WELL below market value.
Boston holds a $12.5m option on him. He’s not worth that and on top of that, he said he wants a multi-year deal. That would be insane to give him anything more than a 1 year deal worth $6m tops with a club option for a 2nd at less than the 1st.
He hasn’t made any indications that he wants any specific dollar amount. Of course he wants an extension. He wants to retire in Boston. Saying he’s going to be looking for more than he’s worth is in direct conflict with the fact that he knowingly signed a well below market deal in his only shot at free agency thus far.
Whens Lars Anderson gonna come up? I havent been paying too much attention to him, but is he still projected to be the big power hitter future 1st basemen?
Lars Anderson has struggled mightily at all levels. He has been moved up to the #3 prospect in the Sox organization, but he’s batting around .230 with only 5 HRs in over 200 ABs.
“Lars Anderson has struggled mightily at all levels”
He has destroyed the minor leagues aside from last season’s stint in Portland (although he bookended that by tearing up AA in 2008 and 2010) and this season, where despite a low batting average he’s maintained a OBP over 100 points above that. Guys don’t become #1 prospects in their organization by struggling mightily at all levels.
I think he still is but he still needs work at AAA. It took him 2 years to get acclimated to AA so I think if he can rebound at AAA and have good numbers for this season they will give him a chance again in spring training and maybe make him a late season/injury call up in 2011
He may get a shot sooner. Theo recently said something to the affect that he’d rather see prospects get shots against big leaguers than waste time against players their age who can’t match their skill level. He was speaking about Casey Kelly, but I’m sure it applied to other players.
Casey Kelly isn’t really making guys look inferior in AA…
Michael actually misquoted Theo on that. What Theo actually said was he would prefer not to have guys in a level where they can/could put up great numbers, but that he would rather have them moved up a level and continue being challenged. Kelly is 20 years old, and in his first full season pitching, in AA Portland instead of Single A where most 20 year old first year pitchers would be. I believe the article said that Kelly is either one of the five youngest players or five youngest pitchers in AA.
hes 23, just converted into a full time pitcher and is in AA. thats not terrible.
Actually Kelly was born in Oct of ’89 which makes him only 20 and in AA, I’d say that’s better than not terrible.
I’m a Red Sox fan, but I think they should be looking to sell. I just don’t see them passing the Yankees or Rays this year. Beltre must have some solid value (I’m thinking to the twins).If V-Mart got healthy, he certainly has value.
I would love to see the Sox cash in whatever chips they have (not core guys) to stockpile quality prospects, and use those prospects to make a splash in the offseason.
I just hate to watch this season whither away and these guys will resign or walk with nothing (maybe a couple draft picks) to show for it. It is time to get realistic and aggressive.
I completely disagree. The Sox are not sellers, nor should they be. Remember, we have a number of star players returning which is tantamount to adding players at the deadline without losing prospects. Moreover, people need to get off of Tampa’s wagon. They have 3 pitchers who’ve never thrown over 200 innings and 1 who’s only done it once. Maddon is already planning on instituting pitch counts on his young pitchers. I may be wrong, but I see Tampa fading away.
The Sox’d still be in 2nd if it weren’t for injuries and we’re only 3 games out of the wild card. All the Sox need to do, really, is add a couple of arms in the pen (bring up Bowden & Weiland, for starters) and maybe go after some guys from Toronto like Buck, Downs and Bautista as Toronto is apparently going to be pretty aggressive in making deals and the Sox need a C, RP and OF.
Umm that wouldn’t go down well with the team…especially not youk and pedrioa. And why would they be sellers when they are just 5 games out midseason with half a team of back up players. Once they start getting healthy, they will make a nice run. The only thing they have to do is get some bullpen help.
I love how the Boston minor league system is ranked in top 5 by Theo’s media friends, yet Boston writers pretty much admit they don’t have the chips to get top players in trades and they don’t have any prospects on the horizon other than Casey Kelly that can help the big club any time soon.What exactly makes that a top 5 system? I guess wishing and hoping. As for next year, the Red Sox should let Ortiz go. I just don’t buy into his “comeback”. Let’s see him do this in the 2nd half. Even then, he’s not worth 12 million. No DH is. The market for the DH has collapsed into a reasonable range. I don’t see Boston blowing that market up. If the Yankees sign Lee and Pettitte returns, the Yankees will be able to throw 3 lefty starters at the Red Sox. That makes Ortiz a liability in head to head games against them since he struggles against lefties. They’d be smart to wait out Adrian Gonzalez only because I doubt SD will spend the dollars to resign him. I mean, what is wrong with SD? They’re in a good market for baseball, have a low payroll and can’t keep one of the top players in the game?I’d be careful with Prince Fielder although he’d rake in Fenway. Boras is going to want 6-8 years for him. That’s a scary thought. I’m not writing Boston off for this season though. If Beckett comes back and is good it’s a nasty rotation. It’s better than the Rays. I think Boston has a better everyday lineup than Tampa and should be able to catch them when the troops start to return.
They have a bottom heavy minor league system with a lot of good prospects in A and AA who aren’t ready for the majors. Those types of prospects don’t have the best trade value.
Well, Casey Kelly, Ryan Westmoreland, Michael Bowden, Jose Iglesias, Stolmy Pimental, Ryan Kalish and Oscar Tejada, even Felix Doubront are all bonified prospects. You don’t have to have a myriad of MLB ready minor leaguers to have a highly ranked organization.
Westmoreland isn’t much of a prospect these days. He is not recovering well from brain surgery in April. I read that he is unable to throw a baseball further than two feet. Not looking good.
haha. Actually, Ryan is doing very well. Running the bases. Hit off the Tee today. Throwing from 65 feet and taking ground balls side to side. After what, like 3 months? The kid is amazing, and I’m convinced he’ll come back from this and be the best story in baseball roaming CF in Fenway.
I’m not quite sure I completely buy into it myself, but from what Theo said in an article a few days ago the guys who would be expected to have the most trade value (ie. Kalish, Anderson, Rizzo, and Kelly) are all playing in a level higher than most prospects would be, because they want to challenge them, which would reasonably explain why they are struggling this year. Make of it what you will, but that is what Theo says (and they all are among the youngest players at their level).
Plus the Rays have been lucky. Neimann has an FIP over 4.00 Price’s is at 3.50 (which isn’t bad but shows that Price can regress).
of ortiz, v-mart, and beltre, i think beltre needs to be epstein’s top priority. i love papi, but locking up a 250lb 34 y/o slugger that can’t field a position to multiple years for big dollars is a poor use of limited resources. at 31, v-mart is likely to begin regressing next year and the premium historically paid for catchers should decline considering the impressive supply of premium young catchers entering the market (i.e. santana, posey, arencibia). if v-mart is willing to sign at a discount, fine. but if not, go out and get a guy that can play quality defense behind the dish w/ offensive upside on the cheap like ianetta. players like beltre w/ a big bat tailor made for fenway combined with elite defensive skills at a position lacking quality alternative options demand our investment imo. beltre is the youngest of the three as well.
I agree about Papi & V-Mart, but Beltre’s agent scares me. The Sox are in a unique position because they can address the loss of Beltre by adding a top tier 1B and moving Youk back to 3B.I think Theo’s main concern needs to be the pen. They are over-used and under-skilled. The only one I trust right now is Bard. Hell, I have more faith in Atchison than I do in Capt. Fastball himself, Papelbon.
I force myself out of the room when Papelbon is pitching.
Beltre is going to want a 4 yr deal at top value. I don’t want to pay him that.
My vote is to hang in there and hope for the best until the guys come off the DL. If we make it to the playoffs, great. If we don’t survive, so be it, always next year, it was a fun ride. No sense wasting valuable pieces to retool a team so plagued by injuries that no reasonable fan can expect them to compete as well as they have.
In terms of reaquisitions: If Ortiz is serious about staying in Boston, he’ll take a rolling option akin to Wakefield’s and not ask for more than $4-5 million. If he can’t accept that, he can look elsewhere. I love the guy to death and appreciate all of his contributions and was one of the few saying he might turn it around, but we can’t do this every year, especially not at a salary higher than your usual DH.
With Martinez, this one’s dependent on what happens with Ortiz and Beltre. If we bring Ortiz back, I say let Martinez walk, as much as it hurts. The only reason to keep him is if we have the DH spot open since he’ll probably want four years and we can’t count on him to catch consistently through that. The way this team has performed with injuries has proven we can stick around with a good defense, low batting catcher. If Ortiz or Beltre comes back, regardless of how cheap, we’ve got to let Martinez walk for the sake of roster flexibility.
Beltre, oh man, I’ve loved him this season. I was on board from day one and have been gloating for months about him. That said, I’d say signing him is unrealtsic. He’s going to expect to get paid after his performance this season so far and I’m hesitant to offer more than three years at ten per after what happened with Lowell.
Trade Deadline:
1. Left Fielder – David DeJesus
2. Righty Middle Reliever/Setup – Joakim Soria/Kyle Farnsworth/Scott Downs
3. Lefty Specialist – Craig Breslow
Off Season
1. Resign Beltre at 3B and Victor at C
2. TRADE DICE-K SOMEHOW!
3. Sign Carl Crawford or Jayson Werth at LEFT
3a. Either decline DeJesus option and let him walk for the 2 1st round picks thanks to his Type A status.
3b. Or trade Ellsbury in the package with Dice-K to help move him and get back some great prospects to a team in need of a good 4/5 starter and great speed!
4. Sign Adam Dunn for DH, Don’t resign Ortiz unless its on the cheap (6m 1 year or 10-12m 2 years with incentives)
They aren’t trading Dice-K stop dreaming
Aww, but that’s all this website is… Dreams. 🙂 Enjoy.
soria would be nice but farnswworth and dejesus? he’s having a career year at 31 and how would we know he would suceed in the AL east? Beltre is gunna leave. He wants top money.
Farnsworth, ok. But I like DeJesus, sorry. I think he’s a good fit for the team until guys like Kalish & Fuentes come up. Only a year and a half commitment. But it won’t happen, just like most of my post 🙂 KC wants too much for the 30 year old (not 31 btw).
Yeah, not only does Dice-K have a full no-trade clause, but he can’t be sent to the minors either. All the Sox can do with him his put him waivers and I can’t imagine anyone else picking up his contract.
Eh, tell Dice-K, either you’re going in the Bullpen, or you can go pitch in the NL where you can probably expect your ERA to go down a full point and have a better career? Questions? But I agree, it probably won’t happen, but it’s not impossible. Just a dream.
Why would you put a starting pitcher who struggles in the 1st inning into the bullpen?
Now, this is going to sound bad, but whatever. I think Dice-k is the perfect example of how Japanese pitchers don’t fit into American baseball. They have gimmicky deliveries that seem to work well their rookie year and then get adapted to thereafter. Name 1 Jap pitcher who did well in multiple years? I mean hell, even Dice-K’s good year wasn’t his, it was his bullpen’s that pitched 4 innings everytime he started.
I wouldn’t want him in the pen. I said trade. I’m just saying, I’m sure the sox can find a way to have him waive his no-trade clause. It’s not like he’s been blossoming here and having the greatest time with the fans or media.
Hiroki Kuroda ? WAR (3.5, 2.2 and 1.9 so far).
What do you plan on trading for Soria?
You gonna give up Bard? Casey Kelly? Outside of that, you aren’t sniffing Joakim Soria.
I love how Red Sox and Yankees fans think that KC is just dying to send their best players to them for no talent to speak of.
And the only way you’re trading Dice-K is to eat most of his salary.
I know Soria is a pipe-dream, hence why he’s at the top of the list. Aim high. I don’t think KC is dying to send anyone away, just admiring his talent. Sorry. 🙂 And I wouldn’t mind if the sox took on 50% of his remaining contract or all of next year. He’s only what? 10 million a year… And he’s not completely shot. He’s still had 2 games of 8 IP 0 R. He has the stuff, he just needs a different scenery, less pressure and in the NL, and I honestly think he can be much better. Some players just aren’t right for some teams and each can suceed in certain situations.
DeJesus and Soria… for that you better be willing to give up the farm…
oh and by the way Soria would be your closer not setup man… he is one of the top closer’s in baseball… 25 saves era 2.314 whip 1.111 all this on the Royals… put him in Boston he would have at least 30 or more saves by now…
Fine, prove my point more. Give up Soria. Stop subjecting him to multiple losing seasons on a terrible team. You’re stunting his growth! haha. Don’t take it so seriously man. No one on this page has a clue what’s ever going to happen, but everyone is so damn stubborn in their rediculous opinions. I just figured I’d give best case scenarios for Boston.
I’d bet that his whip would be higher than Papelbons in the AL East (they are identical now). Saying “all this on the Royals” tends to work both ways.
Whats gunna happen if/when we lose beltre? will the sox get a big bat like cabrera or adrian? i would love to see wright come to boston. good move for mets. they could stock up on prospects. The sox need to keep v-mart. 1-3yr deal.
The Sox need a C who can actually throw a runner out; that’s not V-Mart. V-Mart is better suited for 1B than C anyway.
Good move for Mets? You sniffing glue over there?
Why would the Mets trade their franchise player in David Wright for prospects? Explain that one to me.
The Mets are a win now team. With Wright, Reyes, Johan, Beltran, Bay, K-Rod, etc., they are not looking to rebuild.
Seriously, that’s just ridiculous to suggest.
You want Wright? Then come in here and say Boston should trade Youkilis or Pedroia for him. Then someone might take it seriously.
Why would you trade a gold glove winning 1B with the best eye in the game who can play multiple positions in a pinch OR a former rookie of the year/AL MVP gold glove winning 2B, future Captain of the team for an overrated 3B from NYM? I’m not saying Wright’s not good, he is, above average, but not great. Bottom line, I’d rather have Youk than Wright & I’d most definately rather have Dustin than Wright.
wright is not overrated. i will gladly take a .300+ hitter with 30+homerun power with plus defense out of my third baseman. their is like 3, maybe 4 teams that can say they have a player like this.
Wright is not overrated. Gold gloves don’t mean a thing and Youk can only play 1st these days. His 3B days are probably over.
Count me in as one of the people that agrees with Tony Mazz and that this team has literally shocked me this year. The fact that they have 50 wins is impressive. On paper however, it just does not make sense. I think myself included, a lot of people are just waiting for the wheels to fall off. I congratulate them on their sucess this season, but they’ve surprised me more than the Reds or Padres, as insane as that sounds.
I’m going to stick to what I’ve said and I do believe the Sox have some fairly serious concerns on the horizon. 3rd, Short, Catcher, CF (since ellsbury is gone, which we all know)(Cameron is useless and should never have been signed) LF, RF (long term) and two pitchers.
Outside of Lester, Pedroia, Bard and Youk, you’ll need just about everything else over the next season or two.
It is kind of like last year and the 95 win season and most people in baseball couldn’t make sense of it.
You have to credit Youk with much of it. He should have been an allstar over Swisher and this is coming from a Yank fan. Without him they are 12 games out right now.
Cameron isn’t useless. I don’t get all this Cameron hate
Err, most of your listed concerns are pretty far off. Unlike the yanks, we haven’t invested about 30 years and a 500 million dollars into about 4 players (+ whatever Jeter rapes them for in the offseason). Sox wise, lot’s of payroll gone after this year, 1B/2B/LF/RF/CF/Short all covered next year (what two pitchers need to be filled? Lester/Bucholz/Beckett/Lackey/Dice-K or Wake. Sounds good to me). So basically this offseason a catcher and a 3B, and maybe some bullpen help if it’s cheap enough. Everywhere else is pretty much covered, and by 2012 some of these great prospects will start breaking through anyway.
Jeter is the face of the Yankees for decades to come. Yanks make money even if they give him a 100 million over 4-5 years. I have no problem with that.
I dont see the sox keeping v-mart. His offense was good but short of spectacular. Defense was very sub-par. I cringe every time I watch a running team steal half a dozen bases off us in a single night. I think that hurts us alot more than a few hits.
I’d take the picks from beltre and vmart. use Youk’s flexibility to find a 1b/3b guy who can hit, sign Werth and a defensive catcher. shore up that pen and now were talking a 100+ win season.
His offense was close to spectacular for a catcher and he struggled for most of the season.
as for DH, only keep papi if we get a good deal. Never understood the value of a ‘true’ dh. Id rather have a revolving door, better opportunity to rest players for the long season.
There is a lot of wishful thinking going on in this discussion. Miguel Cabrera is available? I didn’t know that. Still talking A-Gon? Ship Ellsbury off for a bunch of prospects? Huh? Ellsbury’s value couldn’t be any lower at the moment. In fact, he has postitioned himself well to just get released. He is basically a throw in at this point for another trade. He has a history of being like this with injuries (not me saying this, there was an article in the Boston Globe that explained this) he is not really a great hitter, he is arbitration elidible and there are a lot of people that can do that or better without the headache. He is Boston’s problem right now. I mean the best SS prospect in the league was traded to for Alex Gonzales in Toronto. Lee was trade last week for Smoak and a bunch of crap. Ellsbury net’s ZERO in a trade. Please, some of you need to get this straight first.
Or… get this. We could just sit here and rant like everyone does every day on every post because none of it means anything, include your post. It’s July, it’s supposed to be borderline rediculous. If you can’t dream during July, when can you?
consider me the voice of reality then, sorry.
Calling yunel escobar the best ss prospect in the league disqualifies you from that position.
Smoak and a bunch of crap? There were other alright prospects with upside in that trade too.
Padres are not going to trade A Gon unless they lose a majority of their games before July 31st because they are in contention right now. I’d like to see the Sox wait till after the season and then sign A Gon in the offseason, there is no room for A Gon on the team right now anyway.
The problem I have with Ortiz is that he is JUST a DH, and a multiple year deal doesn’t seem to work with him. What if something else is out there that can be better than Ortiz and you have him signed to another year. The Sox are going to have another Lowell sitting on the bench taking up cap space. It’s a gamble taking him for a second year. I say you look around and see what you can get for a DH and then decide if you are going to take the option, if it not worth it, then drop him, it’s something that’s gotta be done for the Sox.
Sox will go after Scott Downs and will hopefully get him before July 31st. The Jays cant ask for insane prospects because, although he is a good reliever, he is in fact just a reliever so they wont lose too much to boost the bullpen.
The Sox HAVE TO go after Crawford this offseason. I dont care if you have to over pay him. This kid hits like beast, steals like a beast, and can field all in the AL East. He’s proven, he’s young, and he’s probably going to go to the Yankees after a battle back and forth between the Sox and Yanks but the Sox have to go after him aggressively.
I dont have a problem with V Mart. He’s not the best at throwing guys out but he does have a bat and he really wants to be here. Don’t forget we have Luis Exposito playing in Portland right now, and he is playing extremely well. I say you sign V Mart for 2-3 more years and wait for Exposito to come in.
Depending on who they decide to trade for prospects this year they have Ryan Kalish and Josh Reddick waiting to become Sox starters in the OF, Exposito at C, Iglesias at SS, Casey Kelly as a starter, Junichi Tazawa’s coming off Tommy John which hopefully will help him out as it has other big pitchers in the game right now, and Bowden could really help out the bullpen. I think the future of the Sox is great as long as they play their cards right.
Crawford may also go to Texas…
If texas makes the playoffs..and the sale goes through…they may have the funds to bring Crawford back home…
Crawford would be able to play in a state that has no state income tax….for a contender…in a hitters ballpark…
anaheim also has cash to spend…and torri is lobbying for carl to come play with him there….
carl is going to be in a good position…the only other corner OF even remotely on his level is jayson werth…and it wouldnt surprise me if the yankees signed both of them..
News flash. Yanks have Bret Garnder. Werth not coming to the Yanks. Crawford, may be, but lets keep in mind the looming offseason for the Yanks. Resigning Jeter and Mo. Cliff Lee baring any major injury is virtually a lock for the Yanks. Regardless of how well the Rangers do. Cliff Lee will be a Yankee. Probably looking at a 4-5 yr deal btw $85mm and $100mm. There ain’t going to be much left over. Swisher’s salary increases to I believe $8.5mm next year. However most of this will be offset with Javy leaving and Pettitte’s likely retirement. Grandy is great in center.
I like the Yanks the way they are constructed and I like their young bench actually. Ramiro Pena is like a sheet of glue in the field (for real anyone really watching this kid?) it’s like fly paper. Shame he can’t hit off a tee though.
I see Crawford going to the Angels, maybe the Red Sox. Werth to the Giants.
sorry…i thought swisher was on a team option for next year…if so, werth
can step right into RF…
Swish option for 2012 $10.25mm with $1mm buyout. $9mm in 2011. Not sure what the Yanks have planned for RF past 2011. Not saying he is currently not worth that $10.25 option, but is it unheard of to buy him out and resign him to a 2yr maybe $11mm or $12mm contract? He seems to be worth around $6mm or $7mm a year.
He is worth it if the Yankees think he can keep up this production and he isn’t just having a fluke year because while he is striking out less he is walking less than he used to and has a .341 BABIP
A-Gon isn’t a FA after this season, SD is a complete lock to pick up his club option for 5.5MM. And you made me laugh when you referred to Lowell as “taking up cap space”, is that just what you called it or do you not know that there is no cap in baseball?
And the Jays can definitely ask for a lot for Scott Downs because: A) The trade market is very weak for relievers this year, and Downs is one of the few good ones that will be available and B) Downs profiles as a Type A FA, so whichever team wants to acquire him would have to meet/exceed the value of the two draft picks the Jays would receive if they didn’t trade him.
Everyone in here loses for commenting on hypotheticals…the Red Sox will do X move, they’ll do Y move. Wait for the season to play out and see what the end of the year results are. Who knows who will struggle, who will thrive, and who will become available. No one thought Yunel Escobar was going to be traded for Alex Gonzalez last year, so relax on all of these proposals. Oh and one last thing….death, taxes, and Dicky Larue ranting on every single Red Sox post about the media conspiracy to overrate everything that is the Red Sox. Guy, we get it, you hate the Red Sox and can’t speak logically on any topic concerning them, move on.
If you don’t think there’s a Red Sox media bias by the likes of Keith Law, Gammons and Baseball America, then you’re blind. If the Red Sox vaunted farm system was so rich with little dumplings, they’d have been able to make the Granderson trade that Theo attempted to in the off season. They’d also have gotten Gonzales last year.The Red Sox prospects are so insanely overrated it’s not funny. But they get ranked in the top 5 systems. Why then, did they have to spend all that money on Lackey if they were so flush? It’s a mirage. The Red Sox are no better than any other team developing prospects and if Theo didn’t hit the dart board on Nava and McDonald this season, 2 already developed guys essentially out of baseball, the system would look worse. Reddick can’t even come up and help the big team. He’s the most overrated next to the immortal Bowden who can’t seem to get anyone out. But hey, you know better. Just close your eyes when the Red Sox dive into free agency head first and sign anything that moves this off season to replenish the holes their system can’t.
I think you have a problem understanding needs and value. The sox could have gotten Granderson but either they didn’t really see him worth what the Tigers thought he was worth or they simply weren’t that interested. It is well known that Theo doesn’t like trading prospects. But if you think they Sox didn’t get Granderson because they weren’t able to put a package together for him you are dumb. And you complain about Red Sox media bias but I’m sure you have the opposite bias and if you were to make a list you’d have Boston at the bottom of the list which is also hilarious
I wouldn’t have the Red Sox at the bottom of the list. They’re a solid 3rd place team right now with over 50 wins. That’s respectable.
What’s infuriating to myself and anyone who doesn’t drink Sam Adams is that we are force fed how wonderful they are all the time, yet I don’t see the organization being better than any other organization. I don’t think they do it better or smarter like the media will tell you they do.
Teams like the Twins and Marlins get more respect from me than teams like the Red Sox and Yankees who spend like drunken sailors and then require the press to give them a tongue bath telling them how smart they are.
The Red Sox are constantly propped up by Keith Law and Peter Gammons. It’s borderline fraud what they get away saying about Boston prospects in the hopes of upping the value of the system to aid in trades.
Do I think that Boston is a smart well run organization? Sure. Do I think they’re as perfect as NESPN would like us to think? No. If they were, they wouldn’t have be out signing players like Scutaro, Lackey, Beltre, Cameron. They instead would have used those can’t miss prospects Lowrie, Bowden, Lars Anderson and Reddick to fill those spots.
As for Granderson, Theo didn’t want to pay the price. You’re absolutely right about that. But that’s because opposing GM’s ask for the same few prospects that are worth anything in the organization. They are bottom heavy, but that’s not to be commended. 1 out of 10 A ball players may make it to the majors. A lot can happen between A ball and the majors.
There are teams filling holes left and right with players in AA and AAA that don’t get 1/100th the respect Boston gets from the press.
That’s PR. They’re good at that.
But PR doesn’t win baseball games and get players to majors who can actually play.
Alright that doesn’t sound bias and as a Red Sox fan I can agree with that.
All in all i would agree that the Sox prospects get alot of recognition in the media; but who knows if Lowrie, Bowden, Lars and Reddick will amount to solid MLB players or not. what seems to be missing in your rants is:
Lester
Buchholz (he and lester are the young 1/2 combo every team dreams of)
Masterson (traded and still highly regarded)
Papelbon (top 5 reliever in the game)
Bard (top 5 setup man in the game)
Delcarmen
Hanley Ramirez (is he any good?)
Ellsbury
Youkilis (he’s alright, no?)
Pedroia (ROY, MVP, and counting)
Freddy Sanchez (former all’star-pretty good player)
David Murphy (good MLB player, will never be great, but good player)
kelly Shoppach (traded, not the best player, but still in the majors and serviceable)
Your right the sox don’t have any good prospects and everything that is written about them is over blown.
Sure there are guys that I am not naming that didn’t amount to what they probably should have or what the Sox org thought they would; but don’t go off on any rant saying that the sox prospects are overrated. Two years from now, the average fan may just know who Lars, Kallish, Reddick, Kelly etc are. You just dont know that right now.
The sox are a very well run organization, they develop players and give those players the opportunity to succeed when they are ready. If they had a corner IF prospect READY for the bigs they wouldn’t have signed Beltre; but Lars was 1 maybe 2 years out and was coming off a year that he struggled. Hence why they didn’t have interest in Figgins for 4 years and only gave Beltre one and an option that they assumed he would decline.
Your comments are so ridiculous i don’t knw how to continue, hopefully my point is proven.
Sorry. Your point isn’t proven. You didn’t convince me. The Red Sox prospects are overrated.
From the list you put above, I can give you a similar and in many cases better list from almost any organization not named the Pitssburgh Pirates.
I’ll even do the Yankees without including the “core 4” since I know the typical knee jerk red sox fan will cry havoc about including them even though some of the players you listed above like youk weren’t drafted or developed by the current front office.
Cano – MVP candidate
Hughes – All Star
Gardner – among the leaders in baseball in many offensive stats and better than Ellsbury.
Cervelli – solid backup catcher who could start on many teams
Joba – 8th inning setup guy
Robertsen – middle reliever better than Delcarmen
I won’t even get into to the entire bench of Curtis, Russo and Pena since their sample sizes are still small.
Oh and Marcus Thames and Damaso Marte would both drafted and developed by the Yankees so I guess they also make the list the way you comprised yours.
Then since you’re including players for some reason on other teams who were at one time in the Boston system,
Austin Jackson
Phil Coke
Ian Kennedy (way better pitcher than Masterson btw)
Melky Cabrera
Jose Tabata
Tyler Clippard
Ross Ohlendorf
Jeff Karstens
Then if we don’t play the game with Red Sox blinders on and you include Rivera, Posada, Pettite and Jeter it makes that Red Sox list look silly, doesn’t it?
You want to cuddle up and keep yourself warm at night thinking Theo is some genius like Father Gammons likes you to believe, go right ahead.
But the Red Sox are a team that is on the verge of turning over it’s everyday lineup with free agents because they can’t fill holes from within. Their rotation had to sign 3 high priced free agents in Lackey, Beckett and Dice K because they couldn’t fill those holes from within.
Keep slurping up the kool aid from Law, Gammons and ESPN and when you see your team look like a bunch of mercenaries next year ask yourself why couldn’t my incredible farm system fill in any of these holes.
I mean seriously, the Red Sox are constantly linked to Crawford or Werth in the off season.
If the farm system was soooo good and Reddick and Kalish were so can’t miss, you shouldn’t have to sign one of those guys, right?
1. Convenient to not mention the way Buster Olney blows steam up Hal Steinbrenners ass. Its a 2 way road, bud. 2. Did you honestly say that Brett Gardner is better than Ellsbury? Come on, thats laughable. 3. If you dont like the comments people put up here, dont comment on Red Sox posts. Simple as that. People who take these websites as seriously as you do take all the fun out of them.
Then just ignore me if you don’t like my posts about the Red Sox. I have every right to post in any thread I choose to. The fact is, I strike enough of a nerve every time with you Red Sox fans because you know what I’m saying is true. Every Red Sox prospect is a “can’t miss” and a “future top of the rotation starter” when it comes out of Gammons’ and Law’s mouths. And you guys eat it up like pudding. Gammons said in print on ESPN a few years ago that Manny Delcarmen was the best reliever in the game. IN THE GAME. Someone should take away his flask. And Gardner is a far better player than Ellsbury btw. And tougher apparently. He’s playing with his thumb in a splint for weeks. The fact that Gardner has played so well has many in the Yankees organization think Crawford isn’t worth the expense. If Ellsbury were truly what he’s constantly “projected” to be, but actually isn’t, the Red Sox wouldn’t even be in on another OF’er. And it’s not Yankees vs. Red Sox. I don’t like the Red Sox and I hate the way the north east media praises them for even a waiver wire transaction. It’s always met with “Theo must know something the other GM didn’t! It’s arrogance and it’s unfounded. I also hate how they treat and demean their ex players and tear them to shreds. Boston wouldn’t have any WS titles without Manny Ramirez and he’s the enemy now? What a joke. I only wish the Mets had claimed Manny when boy genius put him on waivers that year. Boston never would have won a world series title without him. But hey, all is good in Boston and the minor system is flourishing like never before. That must be why the team spent over 170 million in payroll this season, the most they ever spent.They’re a good team, but they didn’t reinvent the game of baseball like Gammons and ESPN would like you to think.
No organisation can have a constant stream of top prospects unless they’re willing to lose for 10 years (see: Rays). The last 3 years we’ve had Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Ellsbury. Not bad. By 2012 we’ll see how the current crop of propects can handle things.
The Sox system were never rated that high. They were always in the 13-17 range from the lists I saw this off-season.
Can anyone explain to me why sooooo many people think that it is more difficult to hit in the AL East (or the AL in general) than in any other division? This just makes zero sense to me, and I’ve seen it in this thread at least 3 times. So instead of replying to each instance, I am asking someone to please enlighten me as to why it is more difficult to hit in the AL East.
Seriously? Lets see…maybe because arguably 3 of the top 5 rotations in baseball are in the AL east. You have the Rays, Red Sox and Yankees and then you also have a very good young Blue Jays rotation…the only weak link really, is the Orioles.
I get the logic of it, I really do, and looking back at my comment, I don’t think I was clear enough, what I really want is some evidence that it is tougher to hit in the AL East. And while I agree that those 3 teams all have excellent rotations, I would also point out that they all have excellent lineups and any player coming to one of those 3 teams would have more protection than on their previous team. Plus, since the Jays and O’s are in rebuild, they aren’t really trading for players that are already at the MLB level (the recent Yunel trade notwithstanding), and I’ve taken the liberty of listing some players that have come into/left the AL East and posted their slash lines prior to and before being traded.
Xavier Nady: .330/.383.535 –> .268/.320/.474 He didn’t do so well after coming to NY, but I’d attribute that to a more normalized BABIP (.363 –>.290) that made his numbers regress closer to his career norms.
Jason Bay: .282/.375/.519 –> .293/.370/.527 –> .265/.355/.424 He actually did slightly better after being traded from the Pirates to the Sox, but that can also probably be attributed to a rise in BABIP (.307 –>.354) and so far since leaving the Sox his OPS has dropped over 100 points. This could be because he moved to a more pitcher friendly park, but we should see how he plays the second half before a verdict should be rendered.
Nick Swisher: .262/.381/.455 –>.249/.371/.498 I decided to use his ’07 line because I believe his down year with the White Sox was just a fluke, and I only compared it to his first year with the Yankees because I expect his current numbers to drop if/when his BABIP normalizes. And it seems that he has done just as well facing all of those tough rotations in the AL East as he did with the rotations in the AL West.
Manny Ramirez: .299/.398/.529 –> .396/.489/.743 Manny went on an absolute tear in the 2nd half with the Dodgers, now this could be because he was facing weaker pitching, but I would point to the very high .419 BABIP and the fact that Manny seemed much more motivated once he was traded from Boston. He has since put up numbers slightly below his career norms which is probably attributed to aging.
Curtis Granderson: .249/.327/.453 –>.240/.309/.409 His numbers are down a little, and he seems to be an inconsistent hitter overall, but he’s also been injured this year, so I think we’ll have a better picture after the season is over.
Melky Cabrera: .274/.336/.416 –>.259/.316/.348 He had a seemingly breakout year in ’09 and looked like he could be a very serviceable CFer, but since going to Atl he has regressed quite a bit. This could be because he was playing over his head, or because he has less lineup protection with the Braves, but again it’s only been 1/2 a season, so I suppose we should wait and see.
Pat Burrell: .250/.367/.507 –>.221/.315/.367 Originally, I would attribute most of his decline to age/not being used to being a full time DH, but if he continues to hit this well on the Giants, he may be a case where he was overwhelmed by the pitching.
Marco Scutaro: .282/.379/.409 –>.283/.348/.378 I include Marco because after making the switch to Boston, he no longer had to face their rotation, and with Halladay gone, the Jays rotation isn’t nearly as good (their solid in my mind, but young and inexperienced). Also if you look at his numbers, he did better with the Jays than he ever did with the A’s.
Johnny Damon: .282/.365/.489 –>.274/.362/.421 Basically the same numbers, the dip in power is most likely caused by the switch from NYS to Comerica.
I know that there are plenty more examples, those are just the recent ones I could remember off the top of my head (Matsui’s numbers are way down this year, could be because of age). So, based on this, I don’t see why anyone should be concerned with a player coming from another division into the AL East.