A look at the latest from Ed Price of AOL FanHouse…
- Price tweets that some new teams asked about Adam Dunn within the past day. He wonders if those clubs might include the Padres and Giants. Dunn is a nice fit for both teams, though they've been said to prefer avoiding rentals. Meanwhile Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports tweets that the White Sox "remain focused on Dunn, but are laying the groundwork for a starting pitcher." If Dan Hudson pitches poorly Friday against the Athletics, the Sox could change gears.
- In his latest column, Price says the Angels checked in on Garrett Jones before acquiring Alberto Callaspo, but balked at the Pirates' asking price of Maicer Izturis. However, it's worth noting that Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette tweeted that the Pirates say the Angels never contacted them about Jones.
- The Royals were eyeing Rays minor leaguer Jake McGee in a potential David DeJesus deal before the outfielder's injury. The southpaw McGee returned from Tommy John surgery last year and has 91 strikeouts in 76.6 Double A innings in 2010. Baseball America ranked McGee eighth among Rays prospects heading into the season, but he might be first or second on another team.
- Another trade that wasn't: SI's Tom Verducci says the Phillies discussed sending Jayson Werth to the Yankees as part of a deal for Dan Haren before the righty went to the Angels.
- Also of note in Price's column: a look at how the trade deadline has changed over the decades, including varying dates and rules for interleague deals.
The Angels balked at Izturis for Jones??? Are you kidding me?????
I would have too. Thats a HORRID asking price for Jones
Granted I don’t know much about Izturis but with his offensive stats his defense must be rock solid in order to call that horrid.
Izturis is an outstanding defender.
This is one rumor I’m not that big of a sucker to believe this, where do these writters get their rumors from ? the homeless drunk on the street who has never been to a major league baseball game I guess.
From Twitter:
Dejan_Kovacevic
Mentioned this yesterday in chat: #Pirates say #Angels never contacted them about Garrett Jones.
I don’t get this either. Did they expect to get Jones for free?
People on this site have developed a crazy affinity for Garrett Jones. Can someone explain how last year wasn’t a fluke and he’s actually more than a bench player or bottom rung starter?
Because no one expected him to be a .300 hitter. His power is down some this season, but he looks to hit 20+ home runs, drive in a good amount, has a decent eye, and looks very good defensively on first base. And he makes the minimum. There you have it.
He may not blossom into a star in this league, but he looks like a very useful player for the next few years.
I don’t care about his counting stats or his “eye” if he can’t get his OBP above .350 or his SLG above .450 as a first baseman. He’s a bench player on a good team, and not the guy the Pirates should want starting in a year or two, no matter how cheap he is. I don’t see why Pirates fans are so dead set against trading him. I’m not saying Izturis is exactly what I would want for him, but Izturis is a more useful player.
He also plays in the OF, not just 1B. He is just as valuable as Izturis. In fact, I really don’t even know why the Pirates would even want Izturis. I would think that they would be more interested in prospects than utility players.
I seriously doubt there is any validity to this rumor.
A bench player who can only play outfield corners and first isn’t as valuable as a bench player who can play up the middle. I agree, though, that the Pirates would rather have someone young and cheap for Jones than Izturis.
Maybe it wasn’t about player comparison. They may have been reluctant to fill one hole and create another with Izturis’ absence.
lol
Izturis vs Jones in OPS:
2010 – 755 (Jones) … 724 (Izturis)
Jones has yet to play a full season. 2009 is looking more and more like a fluke for Jones. Meanwhile Izturis is incredibly important to the Angels because of his versatility.
Most importantly, the Angels were making a trade so that they could improve their club this year and beyond. Getting Jones may provide lift in one area while hurting the club in a different area.
And that is OPS for a player, Izturis, who plays above average defense at 2B, 3B and SS as opposed to Jones who plays below average defense at 1B or terrible defense in the outfield.
Spot on. Goes without saying that a player who can man 2B, 3B, and SS adequately or better (which is the case with Izturis) is far more valuable than an equivalent hitter who can only play RF or 1B. Especially when the 2nd player doesn’t even field those positions well.
Izturis will give you an OPS between 725 and 775. Huge amounts of flexibility. Some speed. And is cheap. I’d take that over Jones and his 800 OPS any day.
Explain, please, how Izturis is FAR more valuable than Jones, who has more years of control, cheaper, and younger.
Sure – Jones has 1 successful year in baseball and that was as a very old rookie. This season he has been worth 1.1 WAR over 409 PA whereas Izturis has been worth 0.8 WAR over just 140 PAs. Izturis has a history of being a successful major league player whereas Jones has a decent chance of being a AAAA-type player (like a Shelley Duncan-type) based on the age he broke into the league and his regression this year. He’s a decent hitter, but a poor defender and he lacks versatility. Izturis is also one of the more versatile players in baseball as he has the ability to play above average defense at all the infield positions while being a solid hitter.
I’ll take a versatile Middle Infielder who can hit over .700 any day. Jones to me seems more like a AAAA journeyman in the Ryan Shealy, Brad Eldred, Chad Tracy mold than a future elite slugger. Even Randy Ruiz caught lightning in a bottle for a little while. While he could very well have a Jack Cust type career, I personally wouldn’t give up much for that, certainly not Izturis.
I would not trade Jones for Izturis. 1.) Jones plays every day while Izturis does not (and has not), 2.) Jones is under team control for longer and costs $2.3m/year less, and 3.) the Pirates cannot afford to trade 20 HRs from their current lineup — I know 20 isn’t much, but THIS lineup cannot afford to lose them. The Pirates already have Neil Walker to play 2B (who is 6 yrs younger than Izturis), and he can fill in at 3B. The Pirates would be looking at Izturis to play straight SS, and that’s not something I’d be interested in — he has much more value as a utility middle infielder (having spent most of his time at 3B this year).
To Angels fans, Izturis has a lot of value…he fits a role for their team. The Pirates do not need to be trading Garrett Jones for a utility player on a potential championship quality club…to start at SS for them. That’s not a knock against Izturis. That’s not a knock against Jones.
Just let Cedeno play SS and have Russell and Long leave him alone.
It’s not to Angels fans that Izturis has a lot of value, objectively he is more valuable than Jones. He is also an equally productive player (as someone already pointed out Jones has a .755 OPS and Izturis has a .754 OPS). An equally productive player who is a better defender at a more difficult position is more valuable. If the Pirates used Izturis at 1st base, he would be a better defensive player than Jones at the position which would even out any ‘power advantage’ that Jones might have. (On that note I’d point that if this year is what Jones ‘is,’ which is likely, than Izturis’ .434 slugging last year is better than Jones’ .422 this year.)
Also the fact that Izturis has frequently been a utility player doesn’t mean that he can’t be a starting player – that’s silly.
We (Pirates fans) are not in favor of this trade as Izturis does nothing for our team and Jones plays a large role. For us Jones is much more valuable than another MI with limited power/speed and who is well past the age of developing into a top tier player. For the Angels you may hold your value differently but this trade is a bad trade for the Pirates and we hope they get prospects if they trade Jones that can mend with Tabata, Walker, Pedro and others.
To preface, I don’t have a dog in this race – I’m not a fan of either team.For starters, I’m not sure why you comment on Izturis’ age; he is only 9 months older than Jones. What that means is that BOTH players are past their prime and, further, one could argue, Jones has the skill set of the type of player that will typically decline faster than a player like Izturis – Jones is big at 6’4″, 245 w/ some power and poor defense: those types of players generally atrophy more quickly than athletic-built middle infielders.Second, what is the ‘large role’ Jones plays on this team? If Alvarez, McCutcheon, Tabata, Milledge and Walker all reach the absolute peaks of their potential, the team is still poorly positioned to compete for the playoffs because of a lack of a pitching. Brad Lincoln, your top pitching prospect coming into this season, has a 6.57 ERA (5.72 FIP) in the majors this year and the rest of the staff provides little hope. Pitchers like Duke, Ohlendorf and Karstens are low-upside. What that means is that even if you keep Jones, a significantly below average MLB 1st baseman at the age of 29, you would be banking on him magically improving into his 30s (which simply doesn’t happen). If someone were to argue that Jones is the worst starting 1B in baseball, I’d have trouble disagreeing with them. Who is worse (both for this year and the future)? Overbay? LaRoche? Glaus? Maybe Ishikawa, LaPorta or Davis could be in the conversation but they all have more upside (and both Ishikawa and LaPorta have hit well of late also).I do agree that prospects would be a better return for Jones, but Jones won’t bring a return of legitimate high-upside prospects.As to why your team would want Izturis, it’s because he is a more valuable player than Jones and your team would be better for this year (and the next few) with Izturis on the roster instead of Jones. Further he is signed to a below market contract through 2012 and at that time would have a decent chance of being a Type B free agent and potentially bringing some draft pick compensation if he leaves. I understand the appeal of Jones. He’s a likable, gritty, homegrown player who put up a very nice year last year, but he has no upside and will never again be the player he was last year. Wisely, the Angels have no interest in dealing Izturis for Jones.
Wisely, the Pirates have no interest in the trade either, according to the PPG. The point that is being lost here isn’t the comparison between Izturis and Jones. It’s the comparison between Izturis and Cedeno. Cedeno is cheaper and younger, and Izturis doesn’t really add much of an upgrade at the position. The fact that he can play 3rd base is irrelevant for the Pirates.
First of all, I love the Day of the Tentacles user icon – well done. Second, I see what you’re saying, Cedeno could be a useful player but I’m of the opinion that Izturis as a regular 1B could be a more useful player than Jones. Further, betting the SS position on Cedeno seems a bit premature as he’s been a comfortably sub-replacement level from ’05-’09.
Oh trust me, I’m no fan of Cedeno at SS…I definitely feel SS is one of the major spots that the Pirates need to improve long term. There isn’t much in the farm system at the position either. That’s why it wouldn’t make much sense to me to bring in Izturis when he isn’t really that much better than what we already have there. I’m not that big on Jones either, and have no problem moving him for something useful. I feel like Steve Pearce could step in and do just as well, and I’m still holding out hope that Jeff Clement will figure out how to hit major league pitching someday. In the long run, it sounds like this offer never really happened anyway, so it’s all a moot point.
Jones plays a big part of the team right now and we’ve seen Eldred, LaRoche, a few stints of Pearce, and a failed experiment with Clement in the past five years and Jones has been the best of the bunch. Although I agree that we have a need for some young talent at SS, Cedeno has played well the last month and I would rather have him than trade Jones for Izturis. I don’t see Jones being a big part of the team three or four years down the road but he is an average stop gap until the next wave of talent arrives and with Pedro being the only other power source in the lineup we need to keep Jones unless we get minor league (youth) talent in return. There are much worse options in the majors today playing full time first base.
First Basemen of which Jones is having a better season than:
Orioles
Cubs
Indians
Rockies
Astros
Angels (after Morales injury)
Mets (Would I rather have Ike Davis long term YES)
A’s
Seattle (Would I rather have Justin Smoak long term YES)
Rangers
Players that are in the same range as Jones:
ARI (LaRoche)
ATL (Glaus)
There is no need to get older in a trade for the Pirates right now as they need to focus on 2-4 years down the road.
I think Jones would look a lot better as a #6 hitter instead of a clean-up hitter. I don’t mean just re-shuffle the lineup around…one more big power bat to hit #5 behind Pedro, then Jones. He might even have a little more success without the pressure of feeling like he has to carry the team. He has been pretty clutch this year though, and 57 RBI is nothing to sneeze at….he’s just a very streaky hitter. He’s cheap and under control for several more years, and that’s the kind of player the Pirates like. I don’t see them dealing him this year.
They just need to go after Fielder in the off season š
I would definitely argue Ike Davis, Daric Barton, Russell Branyan (count him as Cleveland or Seattle for all I care), Lance Berkman, Troy Glaus, Mike Napoli (the usual 1B in Anaheim these days) and Kendry Morales with just the time before the injury have been better – they’re all ahead of him in WAR. Would you actually prefer Jones over Derrek Lee, Matt LaPorta, Chris Davis or Todd Helton (I guess I could see this one, actually, though he’s a borderline hall of famer and had a solid year last year)?
I have no objections to Jones, but he’s one of the worst starting 1B in baseball. He’s a nice role player on a good team, but shouldn’t really be a major league starter.
I would definitely argue Ike Davis, Daric Barton, Russell Branyan (count him as Cleveland or Seattle for all I care), Lance Berkman, Troy Glaus, Mike Napoli (the usual 1B in Anaheim these days) and Kendry Morales with just the time before the injury have been better – they’re all ahead of him in WAR. Would you actually prefer Jones over Derrek Lee, Matt LaPorta, Chris Davis or Todd Helton (I guess I could see this one, actually, though he’s a borderline hall of famer and had a solid year last year)?
I have no objections to Jones, but he’s one of the worst starting 1B in baseball. He’s a nice role player on a good team, but shouldn’t really be a major league starter.
4 for 4 with two bombs… That’s why they need to keep him unless they get some prospects to help them down the road and that’s the big role that I was talking about in my previous post.
I was COMPLETELY wrong in everything I said – a single day changes everything I think I think about Jones. …or not.
I was COMPLETELY wrong in everything I said – a single day changes everything I think I think about Jones. …or not.
I would be a little surprised if the Padres looked at Dunn, Willingham i can believe but Dunn doesn’t have a position in San Diego. Giants I buy, but I’m guessing the Tigers are a new suitor and perhaps the Rangers (if the Nats will pay the freight). Tigers b/c of the injuries and Rangers b/c Dunn is a better fit than Cantu
I assume they use him as a BRUTAL LF in San Diego and hope his offense makes up for defense. They have a lot of high K rate pitchers there which will mask some of his defensive failures…
brian sabean is not smart enough to be looking at dunn.
Agreed, instead, we’ll get Jose Guillen and his whopping career .323 OBP. If he pulled the trigger and actually got Dunn, the Giants are going to the World Series. With a middle of the order of Posey, Dunn, Huff the Giants might score 10 runs a game. (Biased comment)
The Giants are the last team the Pads would want Dunn going to. Dunn kills the Padres. The padres might have to go after Dunn just to keep the Giants from getting him. My guess though, is the Nats ask for Bumgardner and Sabean hangs up the phone.
It’s cute that you think Sabean would be smart enough to hang up the phone about that…
I would say that if you want to look up how Dunn has ACTUALLY done against a team instead of how he’s done against them in cliches; baseball-reference.com let’s you do all type of great split sorting. Dunn vs. SD: .255/.405/.518; Dunn career: .252/.382/.523 – so basically he’s gotten a few more walks against SD and hit got a touch less power in his career.
You miss the point. I wasnt suggesting Dunn was better against SD than other Teams. I just dont want SD to to face Dunn down the stretch against a rival contending team in the same division. A .923 OBPS is still a .923 OBPS whether it is more or less than his career average is irrelevant.
I agree….That would be a bad move with the success of their young pitching staff. Just can’t picture Dunn in that big outfield. He would look cool in their alternate camo jersey though!
The Padres would have to get creative in order to get Dunn. The would basically be upgrading Matt Stairs. Dunn would pinch hit, spell adrian once a month and play the first few innings in left field in close games b4 being taken out for a defensive replacement. He has the power to put up #’s in petco and with Adrian on base alot this move would increase runs. Not sure the Pads would be willing to sacrafice so much defensively. I also hear the Nats want a ransom in return. The would probably ask for Blanks and Castro.
I still think the Rays might be a fit, they need a big time DH to match up with the Yanks and the Nats could offer a LHP bullpen arm like Slaten or Burnett.
adam dunn will pitch a fit u know he wants to play defense (if u can call it that)
I would guess either the Rays or Angels. The Rays have the prospects, need a slugger, and aren’t fiscally constrained.
As for the Angels, Dunn would play 1b, moving Napoli back behind the plate and putting Mathis back on the bench. That would constitute a bump of .300+ points in OPS in their lineup. Now that’s a playoff-push upgrade.
… Except the Angels seem determined to give Mathis the bulk of the catching reps.
I agree though – a lineup with Dunn and Napoli with Mathis on the bench is pretty awesome.
The Angels make sense, if they are willing to pay what the Nats want
McGee for DeJesus, I find that to be very interesting… that was the market for David?
Wow I would have considered that a steal for the Rays
I think the White Sox and Rockies could end up making a deal. Brad Hawpe and Aaron Cook, for 2 Giordano’s Pizza’s should get the job done
eh, sauce is too sweet.
Please go out and get another starter Kenny.. Hudson has pitched like crap
Jones has no value on the trade market, the Pirates best option is to keep him, he will play better next year for the Pirates if they have a winning record