One GM tells Jon Heyman of SI.com that there are plenty of complementary pieces available on the trade market, but few impact players. That echoes what Theo Epstein said earlier in the week: there’s not a ton of All-Star caliber talent available at the moment. Here's what Heyman is reporting on the market for starting pitchers:
- One general manager hears that interim GM Jerry DiPoto is asking for two starters plus bullpen help in exchange for Dan Haren. Wow.
- Another GM says every member of the D’Backs is available “except Justin Upton and maybe Ian Kennedy.”
- No team appears willing to commit to the $25MM or so remaining on Roy Oswalt’s contract. Some GMs believe Oswalt wants his 2012 option picked up at $16MM if he is traded.
- A few GMs believe the Mets make sense as a destination for Ted Lilly.
- One GM doesn’t get the impression that the Blue Jays would move young starters like Shaun Marcum.
- People connected to the Cubs expect manager Lou Piniella to retire after the season when his contract expires. Hall of Famer Ryne Sandberg could replace Piniella as Cubs skipper.
wait, the two starters and BP help, are they referring to 2 minor league starters and BP help or 2 guys already in the majors.
If the latter, I’m sure the Mets could spare John Maine and Oliver Perez.
Would the Tigers pony up Turner, Oliver, and one of their young flamethrowers?
Would the Cardinals pony up Miller, Garcia, and Sanchez?
Would the Reds pony up (pick ’em)?
Would the Twins pony up a package headlined by Gibson?
I have no idea where teams’ threshold for pain is in terms of their farm systems.
i can tell you right now that Garcia alone is an overpay for haren.
A pitcher with a low K rate whose early season success was due to high high GB rate which has since lowered? A pitcher who strikes out only 7.2 per game and has as low of a GB% as he has had recently doesn’t have much upside in the majors. Plus he is walking over 3 per game too. Point: It isn’t overpay.
im confused who is the pitcher with the low K rate? surely ur not referring to shelby miller who is “only” striking guys out at a 12.7k/9 inning clip. and that was before yesterday when he had a 5ip line with 8 K’s.and it cant be eduardo sanchez who is also striking out guys at a 9.4K/9inning clipwho is this mystery person??and u can’t seriously be faulting a guy coming off TJ surjery to be perfect in his first year back, can you? besides, Garcia is cost controlled for a long long time. while haren makes over 10million a year.
Yes I’m faulting Jaime. Not that I expect him to be perfect but he can’t still be feeling the affects of TJ surgery, he wouldn’t be pitching if he did.
ok fine, fault a rookie. shows how much patience you have.
but please inform me who those other mystery players you were referring to were.
All of those were about Jaime
ok fine, fault a rookie. shows how much patience you have.
but please inform me who those other mystery players you were referring to were.
Yes I’m faulting Jaime. Not that I expect him to be perfect but he can’t still be feeling the affects of TJ surgery, he wouldn’t be pitching if he did.
im confused who is the pitcher with the low K rate? surely ur not referring to shelby miller who is “only” striking guys out at a 12.7k/9 inning clip. and that was before yesterday when he had a 5ip line with 8 K’s.and it cant be eduardo sanchez who is also striking out guys at a 9.4K/9inning clipwho is this mystery person??and u can’t seriously be faulting a guy coming off TJ surjery to be perfect in his first year back, can you? besides, Garcia is cost controlled for a long long time. while haren makes over 10million a year.
And I could tell you right then that Haren alone was an overpay for Mulder. God Bless America!
it would probably be Lance Lynn instead of Jaime Garcia
The D’Backs would, and should, say no to that.
it would probably be Lance Lynn instead of Jaime Garcia
Turner AND Oliver? No. How about Galarraga and Oliver?
Want Dan Schlereth back?
Galarraga, Oliver, and Schlereth for Haren and Drew?
Substitute any position player prospect for any of the above.
why would someone want a 28 year old righty who hasn’t been really successful?
No thanks.Galarraga… well, he isn’t good. Has been putting up an xFIP over 5 for two years now.And Schlereth… he walks everybody. That’s why we traded him away in the first place.Galarraga, Oliver, and Schlereth isn’t enough for Haren, let alone Haren and Drew.Why would the D’Backs trade Haren, an ace, for a #5 starter/long reliever, a good but not great pitching prospect, and a reliever?
No thanks.Galarraga… well, he isn’t good. Has been putting up an xFIP over 5 for two years now.And Schlereth… he walks everybody. That’s why we traded him away in the first place.Galarraga, Oliver, and Schlereth isn’t enough for Haren, let alone Haren and Drew.Why would the D’Backs trade Haren, an ace, for a #5 starter/long reliever, a good but not great pitching prospect, and a reliever?
Galarraga is a back of the rotation starter. Yes, Turner and Oliver. Turner hasn’t done anything in pro ball yet. If a rental of Cliff Lee gets Smoak AND Beavan, then a locked up below market Haren should net AT LEAST that.
Galarraga is a back of the rotation starter. Yes, Turner and Oliver. Turner hasn’t done anything in pro ball yet. If a rental of Cliff Lee gets Smoak AND Beavan, then a locked up below market Haren should net AT LEAST that.
Turner, Oliver and say Weinhardt would be doable.
The question is, what would the Dbacks think is fair to get Drew?
I still think the Tigers would have to get really creative to get both Diamondbacks. It’d be a huge package. Turner, Oliver, one of the big young relief arms, and Sizemore maybe?
I still think the Tigers would have to get really creative to get both Diamondbacks. It’d be a huge package. Turner, Oliver, one of the big young relief arms, and Sizemore maybe?
I agree with that one GM who thinks it`s unlikely Jays will move Marcum. It would have to take a really blow-me-away offer to acquire Marcum. Jays staff is too young and inexperienced and Marcum is a great young pitcher who is a great mentor for the kid and he is awesome in the clubhouse.
Next year may be a possibility though.
Agreed. He has the most experience (albeit 81 starts) out of anyone in the rotation.
Homer Bailey, (pick from Matt Maloney, Matt Klinker, Sam Lecure), and (pick from Enerio Del Rosario, Nick Masset, Daniel Herrera, or Jared Burton)
Not nearly enough.
Not nearly enough.
Homer Bailey, (pick from Matt Maloney, Matt Klinker, Sam Lecure), and (pick from Enerio Del Rosario, Nick Masset, Daniel Herrera, or Jared Burton)
There isn’t a team in baseball that would pay that if it is the way it sounds. Especially if they are having to take on Haren’s contract as well. The Cardinals don’t have the goods to get him. I would be much happier to look at other D-Backs, especially Stephen Drew. What about Stephen Drew and Rodrigo Lopez for Brenden Ryan, Lance Lynn, Fernando Salas, Daryl Jones, and maybe lower level guy? What do you think?
There isn’t a team in baseball that would pay that if it is the way it sounds. Especially if they are having to take on Haren’s contract as well. The Cardinals don’t have the goods to get him. I would be much happier to look at other D-Backs, especially Stephen Drew. What about Stephen Drew and Rodrigo Lopez for Brenden Ryan, Lance Lynn, Fernando Salas, Daryl Jones, and maybe lower level guy? What do you think?
From TFA:
“2. Joakim Soria, Royals, relief pitcher. It’s a long shot that he’ll go anywhere… But if he becomes available — and that’s a big “if” — it’ll be a feeding frenzy.”
You could write the same thing about Mariano Rivera.
Yes but Mariano isn’t going to be traded while there is a chance Soria will.
Yes but Mariano isn’t going to be traded while there is a chance Soria will.
what “feeding frenzy” would there really be for an aged over rated closer really?
lol, overrated? I don’t think so.
He is so overrated, when i was watching the all-star game the announcers kept saying that if it was a close game to the end the NL had a chance to win because no Mariano to close it out, I mean come on there are plenty of other players that could close a game its just BS to give him that much attention and saying you cant win because hes not pitching is a joke.
They treat him like a god, but he has choked more times then I can count. He WAS amazing…. like 10 years ago. Now he is just living off of what he used to be. Don’t be a homer he is an average reliever now.
Dude – I can only hope that you are joking.
Rivera hasn’t posted a FIP above 3 since 2000. Right now he is sitting at 2.27 with an ERA just a bit over 1. How is that overrated?
Rivera has been just as crucial to Yankee success over the past 15 years as Jeter or Posada. The guy is an absolute stud. And this is coming from a Yankee hater.
Dude – I can only hope that you are joking.
Rivera hasn’t posted a FIP above 3 since 2000. Right now he is sitting at 2.27 with an ERA just a bit over 1. How is that overrated?
Rivera has been just as crucial to Yankee success over the past 15 years as Jeter or Posada. The guy is an absolute stud. And this is coming from a Yankee hater.
Trivia, what pitcher holds the record for the best career ERA+? Overrated closers are guys like Feliz and recent Papelbon.
Trivia, what pitcher holds the record for the best career ERA+? Overrated closers are guys like Feliz and recent Papelbon.
If my team have a reliever that is as reliable as Mo, I’d treat him like a God too.
If my team have a reliever that is as reliable as Mo, I’d treat him like a God too.
They treat him like a god, but he has choked more times then I can count. He WAS amazing…. like 10 years ago. Now he is just living off of what he used to be. Don’t be a homer he is an average reliever now.
Rivera isn’t overrated. He’s not in his prime anymore, but he’s still the best closer in the game. There’s no one I would rather have as my team’s closer.
I understand and completely agree he is in fact the best closer, but what i am trying to say is that people cant just say that just because Mariano is not pitching your team has zero chance to win. Come give other people in the game credit they are all stars for a reason?
I understand and completely agree he is in fact the best closer, but what i am trying to say is that people cant just say that just because Mariano is not pitching your team has zero chance to win. Come give other people in the game credit they are all stars for a reason?
He is so overrated, when i was watching the all-star game the announcers kept saying that if it was a close game to the end the NL had a chance to win because no Mariano to close it out, I mean come on there are plenty of other players that could close a game its just BS to give him that much attention and saying you cant win because hes not pitching is a joke.
what “feeding frenzy” would there really be for an aged over rated closer really?
Ted Lilly would be perfect for the Mets! Fly ball pitchers play well at Citi Field. He can play under intense scrutiny- Cubs fans are rough and tough on players, and they love him. He’s a fierce competitor who won’t wilt in the bright lights. He’s only under contract for the rest of the year, easy to let go, or if he does well, you get a leg up on bringing him back.
He is so perfect for the Mets, I’d say Minaya is negligent if he DOESN’T at least attempt to bring him in.
I agree but it depends what they want in return…even though he is a type A, im not willing to give up Mejia, Thole, Flores, Havens or Nieuwenhuis.
I agree but it depends what they want in return…even though he is a type A, im not willing to give up Mejia, Thole, Flores, Havens or Nieuwenhuis.
Let me add here, after looking at what the D’Backs are asking for Dan Haren, I’d say he’s really not available. That’s what the D’Backs are telling you by their demands, he’s yours ONLY if you make us an offer we can’t refuse.
He’s still under contract for 2 more years; the D’Backs can always but him out there next year or the year after too.
Unless they’re setting the bar really high and would be happy with something a tick below that if that’s the best they can get.
Unless they’re setting the bar really high and would be happy with something a tick below that if that’s the best they can get.
I’m some what proud of the pitcher IPK has become in AZ. Obviously, the NL West is very condusive to his ability. I don’t think he would’ve faired the same in the AL East. Most surprisingly is the fact that the kid with the much maligned 90 mph fastball gas managed to amass a nifty 8 ko/per 9 rate and is sandwhiched in between some pretty good company (Latos and Jiminez). Good for you IPK. Oddly, of the three big Yankee prospect pitchers from 2007 (Hughes, Joba and IPK), the one with the best pure stuff is the one struggling the most right now (Joba). I truly think the Yankees messed things up by moving him back and forth. I’m almost willing to send him down to the minors for a month or so and let him regain his confidence.
Does Joba still have options? Because if not, he’d get claimed in an instant…
Does Joba still have options? Because if not, he’d get claimed in an instant…
I’m some what proud of the pitcher IPK has become in AZ. Obviously, the NL West is very condusive to his ability. I don’t think he would’ve faired the same in the AL East. Most surprisingly is the fact that the kid with the much maligned 90 mph fastball gas managed to amass a nifty 8 ko/per 9 rate and is sandwhiched in between some pretty good company (Latos and Jiminez). Good for you IPK. Oddly, of the three big Yankee prospect pitchers from 2007 (Hughes, Joba and IPK), the one with the best pure stuff is the one struggling the most right now (Joba). I truly think the Yankees messed things up by moving him back and forth. I’m almost willing to send him down to the minors for a month or so and let him regain his confidence.
Shocked on Oswalt … only been saying that for a few months. You either get a team to assume the entire contract (which will include the option) OR you pick up a portion of the contract and get some decent talent back. No way someone pays all the freight on Oswalt AND pays for talent.
The DBacks must not realize that Haren is not the same guy this year as he has been in years past. That nifty 4.36 ERA is the highest of his career since 2004. He has been unlucky as FIP is showing a more generous 3.74. In any event, a team is not going to assume all of Haren’s contract + give up 2 ML Starters + another ML talent. Simply won’t happen. Way too steep of a price for Haren.
And Kennedy is untouchable? The guy has a FIP near 5. Once his BABIP regresses you are looking at a pitcher with an ERA in the 4.5 range. Not bad, especially at league minimum, but hardly untouchable.
Shocked on Oswalt … only been saying that for a few months. You either get a team to assume the entire contract (which will include the option) OR you pick up a portion of the contract and get some decent talent back. No way someone pays all the freight on Oswalt AND pays for talent.
The DBacks must not realize that Haren is not the same guy this year as he has been in years past. That nifty 4.36 ERA is the highest of his career since 2004. He has been unlucky as FIP is showing a more generous 3.74. In any event, a team is not going to assume all of Haren’s contract + give up 2 ML Starters + another ML talent. Simply won’t happen. Way too steep of a price for Haren.
And Kennedy is untouchable? The guy has a FIP near 5. Once his BABIP regresses you are looking at a pitcher with an ERA in the 4.5 range. Not bad, especially at league minimum, but hardly untouchable.
I’d love the mets to try to get a 3 way trade with the cubs and another team that would need an outfielder. Then maybe they can unload franceour if hes even worth anything and let Pagan play.
I’d love the mets to try to get a 3 way trade with the cubs and another team that would need an outfielder. Then maybe they can unload franceour if hes even worth anything and let Pagan play.
Dan Haren is still an excellent pitcher. He simply has gone thru a rough start. Since June over the course of 8 starts he’s avg’d 7 IP and 2.5 ER. His walk to ko rate is still excellent (2nd in the NL behind Halladay) and his Ko/9 is still amongst the best (8th in the NL). Factor in that a team can have him for 3 years at less than market value (assuming he returns to TOR status) thru his 30, 31 and 32 age then 2 starting pitching prospects and a reliever seems reasonable.
Dan Haren is still an excellent pitcher. He simply has gone thru a rough start. Since June over the course of 8 starts he’s avg’d 7 IP and 2.5 ER. His walk to ko rate is still excellent (2nd in the NL behind Halladay) and his Ko/9 is still amongst the best (8th in the NL). Factor in that a team can have him for 3 years at less than market value (assuming he returns to TOR status) thru his 30, 31 and 32 age then 2 starting pitching prospects and a reliever seems reasonable.
Why the hesitation to trade prospects who dream of growing up to be like Dan Haren, when you can have the real deal? Prospects are just that. Two blue chippers is too much, though, if they’re not picking up any salary in the deal.
For Oswalt, the Strohs still have to eat some salary if they expect more than a couple of B level prospects back. As a fan, I’d rather my owner pay the full salary and keep the prospects.
So, with no ground to stand on, Oswalt can “demand” a trade AND demand his next team pick up his option. Brilliant!
Oswalt isn’t demanding a trade (from what I’ve read). Instead he gave permission for the Astros to look for a trade partner. As for having his option picked up – that’s pretty standard for guys who have a NTC. It’s compensation for them waiving the right to be traded.
Oswalt isn’t demanding a trade (from what I’ve read). Instead he gave permission for the Astros to look for a trade partner. As for having his option picked up – that’s pretty standard for guys who have a NTC. It’s compensation for them waiving the right to be traded.
So, with no ground to stand on, Oswalt can “demand” a trade AND demand his next team pick up his option. Brilliant!
It still confuses me why teams don’t want to take on Oswalts contract. He’s a proven ace. I believe Lilly would be a good fit for the Mets but as all Mets fans know, one more arm will not cut it, they need a Lilly-Carmona type package somehow. Whether it’s a 3 team trade or two separate trades the Mets need arms. And the asking price for Haren? Seems too high since he’s having an OKAY year.
It still confuses me why teams don’t want to take on Oswalts contract.
It’s just how the baseball economics are now. Rarely do you see the ridiculous contract be offered anymore, unless it’s the Yankees who they have even tamed a bit.
The rich continue to get richer though, so I’m not sure that’s so true. If the big market clubs had a serious need they’d take it on.
A few teams have been interested apparently. Oswalt keeps playing the “won’t accept a trade to…” game.
I actually meant to reply to dc21892’s original post…
I actually meant to reply to dc21892’s original post…
I do agree with that, but to use the Yankees again because Steinbrenner was a genius as a business man, he dumped in a ton of money into the payroll and gained so much money back that if the economy crumbled, they would have a large net to fall in to.
This is actually a perfect example because when the economy did crash, they signed Teixeira, Burnett and Sabathia to insane contracts because of drawing in billions starting in the late 90’s.
The rich continue to get richer though, so I’m not sure that’s so true. If the big market clubs had a serious need they’d take it on.
It still confuses me why teams don’t want to take on Oswalts contract.
It’s just how the baseball economics are now. Rarely do you see the ridiculous contract be offered anymore, unless it’s the Yankees who they have even tamed a bit.
It still confuses me why teams don’t want to take on Oswalts contract. He’s a proven ace. I believe Lilly would be a good fit for the Mets but as all Mets fans know, one more arm will not cut it, they need a Lilly-Carmona type package somehow. Whether it’s a 3 team trade or two separate trades the Mets need arms. And the asking price for Haren? Seems too high since he’s having an OKAY year.
In reading the article I’m going to assume that they want two mlb ready starting pitchers and maybe a pitcher already in the majors pitching out of the pen but not already and established closer.
Factoring in the 2013 option, Haren is signed for a reasonable price at 3/40 mil, especially if he continues to pitch well in 2010 and returns to form from beginning to end in 2011-2013.
Maybe the Tigers can work out a deal for Haren:
Phil Coke (Possible future closer w/ 2 years exp).
Rick Porcello (Starter w/ mlb experience. Was probably rushed).
Andrew Oliver (drafted in 2nd rnd in 2009. Debuted in AA in 2010 and has made 4 starts in mlb this year).
Detroit needs a solid #1/#2 to go along with Verlander and to compete against the Sox and Twins this year. With Verlander, Haren, Bonderman, Galarraga and Scherzer they might be able to go deep in the playoffs.
Porcello would make a potential deal interesting. I like the idea you have but the Tigers would probably have to throw in another lower prospect or two.
If I’m the Tigers, no way do I give up Porcello for Haren
If I’m the Tigers, no way do I give up Porcello for Haren
Coke isn’t going anywhere.
Tigers have already lost Zumaya and Coke has been an integral part of the pen so no way he leaves.
Coke isn’t going anywhere.
Tigers have already lost Zumaya and Coke has been an integral part of the pen so no way he leaves.
In reading the article I’m going to assume that they want two mlb ready starting pitchers and maybe a pitcher already in the majors pitching out of the pen but not already and established closer.
Factoring in the 2013 option, Haren is signed for a reasonable price at 3/40 mil, especially if he continues to pitch well in 2010 and returns to form from beginning to end in 2011-2013.
Maybe the Tigers can work out a deal for Haren:
Phil Coke (Possible future closer w/ 2 years exp).
Rick Porcello (Starter w/ mlb experience. Was probably rushed).
Andrew Oliver (drafted in 2nd rnd in 2009. Debuted in AA in 2010 and has made 4 starts in mlb this year).
Detroit needs a solid #1/#2 to go along with Verlander and to compete against the Sox and Twins this year. With Verlander, Haren, Bonderman, Galarraga and Scherzer they might be able to go deep in the playoffs.
“People connected to the Cubs expect manager Lou Piniella to retire after the season when his contract expires. Hall of Famer Ryne Sandberg could replace Piniella as Cubs skipper.”
No brainer, really. Lou had his run. Obviously, the Cubs will not have to pay Sandberg over 3MM they are paying Pinella and saves some money. I would rather see Sandberg as the bench coach for a year or two and then get the manager’s job. Bringing in a strong manager for a couple years will be difficult knowing he is grooming his replacement. It’s doubtful anyone with credentials would do that. When they bring in Sandberg, they better have a good bench coach in place to have another voice.
“People connected to the Cubs expect manager Lou Piniella to retire after the season when his contract expires. Hall of Famer Ryne Sandberg could replace Piniella as Cubs skipper.”
No brainer, really. Lou had his run. Obviously, the Cubs will not have to pay Sandberg over 3MM they are paying Pinella and saves some money. I would rather see Sandberg as the bench coach for a year or two and then get the manager’s job. Bringing in a strong manager for a couple years will be difficult knowing he is grooming his replacement. It’s doubtful anyone with credentials would do that. When they bring in Sandberg, they better have a good bench coach in place to have another voice.
Isn’t anyone gonna say it? Who are all these “GM’s”, and why are they stating the obvious?
I think these “GM’s” are general managers.
Oh, really? You want a like for that one? Here ya go!
Isn’t anyone gonna say it? Who are all these “GM’s”, and why are they stating the obvious?
If thats what they want, the Phillies should give them Happ, Kendrick (or Carpenter) and Werth, plus a relief prospect. Who cares. That’s a great deal. I think it’s smart.
If thats what they want, the Phillies should give them Happ, Kendrick (or Carpenter) and Werth, plus a relief prospect. Who cares. That’s a great deal. I think it’s smart.
Hmm?
By that logic…Blanton Moyer and Baez for Haren. xD
Hmm?
By that logic…Blanton Moyer and Baez for Haren. xD