The Dodgers are interested in Pirates lefty Paul Maholm, reports Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Yahoo's Tim Brown wrote yesterday that the Dodgers "have been very aggressive in their pursuit of pitching."
Maholm, 28, has a 4.03 ERA, 4.5 K/9, and 3.2 BB/9 in 114 innings, with nine home runs allowed. With so few strikeouts, it's likely that Maholm's ERA will be higher from here on out. On the plus side, his 50.3% groundball rate ranks 12th in the National League according to FanGraphs. That rate has been higher in previous seasons.
Maholm signed a three-year, $14.5MM extension in January of 2009. He's got only $1.86MM remaining this year, $5.75MM in 2011, and a $9.75MM club option for '12 with a $750K buyout. That's $8.36MM guaranteed through '11, which has to be enticing for the Dodgers given their financial constraints.
The Dodgers can risk giving up one top tier prospect and one major league ready pitcher for him
Let’s hope so. That’s exactly what the Pirates need.
I see James Mcdonald probably going.
McDonald up to this point cannot get out big league hitters. I would rather take a chance on a younger player in the lower minors with a bigger upside.
No, actually they can’t.
Are you serious? Best I would do for him is take on his salary. Any major league ready pitcher would be better than him so why trade? He is also not worth a prospect. If they wanted to give up a prospect and a major league ready pitcher they would have gone after Lee. Maholm is not worth a MacDonald. I’m guessing Pirates fans? Who else would think the Astros are a powerhouse?
First of all, none of the big teams that were after lee didn’t offer a simlar package for Lee. They just did barebones offers that were shrugged off by Jack Z. The Dodgers would’ve done the same for Lee, and gotten rejected. Also, this is what happens when big teams start buying up all the big free agents, it comes back to bite them on the ass most of the time. I don’t get why people have to go after the big guys when they can get the little guys for a lot less risk and a lot less money.
Eh. I wouldn’t be interested. The dodgers need someone better.
Hopefully that 3 hit shutout against the powerhouse Astros lineup spikes his value!
Lol, Astro’s offense sucks.
Oh that guy Gary Thorne calls “ma-holme” in TK10? Better option than some.
Taylor, Maholm is quality pitcher struggling on a bad team. I don’t think anyone is mentally prepared to show up every day for five years, and know that they can’t give up more than two runs if they want a win. The Pirates are that bad year in and year out. they Pirates don’t even compete! A winning club and tradition might be just what Maholm needs.
His tERA is 4.48 and his K/9 is incredibly low. There are better options out there.
ERA is a bit high, again he has plus stuff. The feilding behind him is not great. Strike out ratio has always been over hyped. Just as wins to losses are. There are a few better optoins out there, no doubt but Maholm wouldn’t be a rent a player. Most of the other options would be. Maholm has been a starter for a team he has little to chace to put up the W’s. That has to wear on any players mind.
A pitcher that has an xFIP of 4.74 means that he doesn’t really have plus stuff..
If all you go by is ERA, then you don’t really follow the game. There five pitchers that have been mentioned in trade talks recently, of those names only Ozwalt and Carmona are significantly better then Pauls. Maholm is the youngest. The Pirates have turned down offers for him the last three years. This is the second time this year a team has asked about Paul. Trust me, if you were able to work out a deal with the Buccos you would like Mr. Maholm by the end of the year. I think he would really get a second wind going to a winner.
I would love Maholm, but just for the absolutely RIGHT price..
I didn’t mention any prospects. I don’t know your farm system enough to do that. Just defendin Maholm, who is a much better pitcher than the year he is having, and the numbers he is posting. Oddly enough the Dodgers tried to put Chin Lung Ho in the Manny-Bay deal but I believe the Pirates wanted Morris. His name just keeps poppin up with Buccos and Dodgers. My best friend is a huge Dodger fan, that makes me a Dodger fan(part time) What is the word on Looney.
Dodgers offered Bryan Morris to the Bucs.
Woops, meant to say they already have Morris from the Dodgers.
Pirates got Andy Laroche, Bryon Morris and Delyn Young from the Dodgers in that trade. The Dodgers First offer was Young, Chin Lung Ho and Andy. The pirates walked away from the deal at that point, almost made another deal. That is when the Dodgers offered Morris. The Sox and Bucs had already agreed on Moss and Hanson, but the Dodgers did not want to include Morris at first.
Nope, got Delwyn Young for $1 the following spring. Received Morris and LaRoche from the Dodgers in the Bay deal, as well as Moss and Hanson from the Red Sox.
They were seeking Mike Stanton straight up from the Marlins in a Bay trade. How sweet that would be right about now. Alvarez/Stanton behind Cutch, Tabata, Walker, etc.
Red Sox wanted to trade Manny for Stanton actually.
If I recall, the Dodgers and Pirates had talked a trade for Jack Wilson earlier in that year. Chin Lung Ho was the center peice of that offer as well. Destiny?
Lordy Mama…try Loney and Hong-Chih Kuo. You even messed up the joke. Chin Hung Lo would have been funny…sheesh! And you can just HAVE Manny…no charge. lol. OK, n/m…my bad.
4cosmo, you should try watching baseball sometime it is a great game. one, it wasn’t a joke. You have a short stop in the minors named Chin Lung. It has nothing to do with Manny. Two, if you think team defense has nothing to do with a pitchers ERA then you may be ths stupidest person on earth. Three, I didn’t say he should retire. I was just saying that playing for aloosing team that long has to take a tool on a player. That a trade to a winning team would be a good thing for Maholm. Some players come to life after such trades. See Jason Bay. See Brian Giles.
Well, Maholm’s mediocre era is the best thing he has going for him, as the rest of his statistics are bellow average. He is a 4th or 5th starter, so his salary is not so low when you consider the Dodgers could have Ely or someone else for 300 K and little to no downgrade.
Again, he is better than that ERA. If that is all you go by. He is a solid three spot guy. Like any finess pitcher, he needs a good defense behind him. And a fresh start where he has a chance to win. I am not saying the Dodgers should give up the farm. But he would be a tremendous addition to any team. There is a reason that teams have called the Pirates for the last three years asking about him. And it is not because he is mediocre.
No, he’s not. His strikeout rate is extremely low, his walk rate is average, his xFIP, FIP, and tERA all say he’s actually been lucky. Plus: the dodgers have a worse defense than the pirates.
The d’ would be the bigger problem. He has never had more than 81 walks in a season. that was in 170+ innings. His worse year was 2007. One of the Pirates worse years. His ERA is 4.03 not the other two numbers you threw out. He has been in the majors for six years, so no numbers say he is lucky or not. His sample size is to big for that. Bottom line he is an inning eater who gives his club more oppurtunities to win than he does to loose. He is a finesse pitcher who relies on good d’. Dodgers feilding % is .981 the pirates .980, and the errors are pretty close too. Buccos 68 to 65 for the dodgers. So Paul might not be good fit. Most of the Pirates errors come the infeild. That would be the big q’.
team fielding percentage is not an accurate stat to evaluate defense. It is not all about errors, but rather range, or the ability to reach and make plays on more balls.
I agree. And being that Ronny Cedeno is the Pirates only infeilder with a plus plus rating(and he is really bad). I would say the Pirates not only boot a lot of the balls they can get to, they also can’t get to a lot of balls. Again at least I was willing to admit that I was unaware that the Dodgers were close to the Pirates in feilding blunders.
First of all, the Dodgers have a horrible defense. Secondly, I am NOT looking at his era, I am looking at his peripherals, and they are not very good. Sure he would be a consistent starter that would be major league average, but he is not worth much in prospects. Maybe being a pirate fan has altered what you consider a 3rd starter, but Maholm is not that.
The Dodgers could go internally for the 5th starter this year and sign a cheaper equally talented pitcher in free agency for 2011, and do it without giving up prospects.
The only reason to trade for a starter would be to get someone who can be a game changer in the playoffs, Maholm is not that.
If you go by anything other than ERA, then YOU don’t really know the game. Nothing else is more relevant to a pitcher’s ability than ERA. Who is a better pitcher, Pitcher A who is 0-10 with an ERA of 0.95 or Pitcher B who is 10-0 with an ERA of 5.75? Obviously it’s Pitcher A who gives up less than a run a game, regardless of the record. The record reflects the TEAM, not the pitcher. All that means is Team B score a lot more runs than Team A, which as I said has nothing to do with player A’s ability.
You are half true about that. Era is better than wins, but it is still becoming outdated and inaccurate. Too many other factors such as defense, BABIP, hr/fb, etc can affect a pitcher’s era. Remeber Carlos Silva and Livan Hernandez were sporting sub 3.00 eras quite recently.
Are you on crack or just really uneducated about the game of baseball?ERA has as much to do with the teams defense and just plain luck as the pitchers prowess. You need to get with it and look at real statistics like xFIP or simply runs scored against. Those have much more correlation to pitching skill than ERA does.
Who?
What does he team gave to do with it? His team is irrelevant. If you’re point is, it’s hard for him to get up playing for a bad team, he should retire and try something that pays $10/hr. Hhe is a professional who gets paid millions to play…learn to get up for the games. Secondly, and more importantly, the team, his pitching record…everything else is irrelevant. Look at his ERA…that will tell you everything you need to know. That shows you how HE is doing and it’s not good. ERA is the only sta you shouldlook at because that’s the only thing that reflects entirely on the pitcher’s ability only.
lol….
Actually, ERA, the last time I checked, stood for Earned Run Average…and a team’s defense played into that just a little bit.
If you want to see how well/bad a pitcher is truly doing, and what HE can control, you might want to take a look at their FIP. Maholm’s is currently 4.30…still not very good…but your rant was stupid.
First of all it’s not a rant. It comes from common sense and more than 30 years in the business. Let’s look at your flawed logic. ERA is indeed Earned Run Average. And that’s exactly why defense has absolutely NOTHING to do with it! It’s the runs that HE gave up, not his team. If team defense counted, he would prolly be at like 6.00. That is why it’s the only barometer of a pitchers ability, because it’s the only major stat that reflects only him, not defense, not team, not ballpark…etc. As far as FIP is concerned, that is irrelevant to my post as the conversation was about ERA, not FIP. A previous poster was mentioning ERA in his statemebt. Try to keep up. Look in the mirror to see definition of “stupid.”
That poor little league team.
Maholm is a bulldog — he gets after guys…granted it is with some soft stuff from the left side. *IF* you have watched the Pirates this year, then you’ll know that the 4+ ERA for Maholm *IS* misleading. Most of the year the outfielders were GROSSLY mispositioned. Milledge played left-center for how many games this year? I also think the official scorekeeper at Pittsburgh games is on crack — Alvarez had 5 errors against the Phillies in a series…but only “officially” had 2 (July 3rd…)?!?!? THAT AFFECTS ERA. Finally…Joe Kerrigan. Need I say any more? Maholm had a 3.71 in 2008 (eating up 206+ innings), before Kerrigan. Since Kerrigan’s arrival in Pittsburgh…any quality pitching has gone downhill. NO ONE has thrived with him in place…Maholm has had MUCH more working against him in Pittsburgh than working FOR him. He is *NOT* a #1…but we’re not pretending he is. We’re not talking a Kemp-for-Maholm trade here. We’re saying that a #3-5 starter, taking the ball every 5th day and eating up 200+ innings (from the LEFT side), is worth some prospects.
um….dude, defense actually plays a huge role in era. Think about it, if a guy hits a ground ball that gets past a SS that has sucky d, it does not have to be an error, it is just bad D, and is out of the pitcher’s control. There are also certain rates by which fly balls turn into homers, and bad luck can turn disproportionate amounts of fly balls into homers, thus inflating era. The key is that un earned runs due to errors are not counted in era, but runs due to poor defensive range/arm etc are counted.
30 years in the business. Funny, you are the only person in the business I have ever heard say defense is not important to a pitchers era.
Do you even KNOW what FIP stands for? I highly doubt it. Otherwise you would know that LongSuffering just showed pretty clearly how little you know about baseball.
This post planted that fact firmly in place. You could fill encyclopedias with what you DONT know about baseball.
I think what is totally irrelevant is you.
Something like your job?
ERA will tell you how the TEAM played when he was pitching, but much less about his pitching performance.
You do realize ERA means EARNED RUN average right? SO that means by definition that it is NOT just the pitchers ability. It has as much to do with the defense of the team. And if you don’t think team defense has anything to do with a pitchers performance then you really need to start following another sport.
Ethan Martin and Dee Gordon seem like potential targets for the Pirates.
Aim lower. Dee Gordon was apparently off the table even for Cliff Lee. Doubt you’d pry Ethan Martin away, either.I’d think the following guys would be available – SP – John Ely, James McDonald, Jesus A. Castillo, Scott ElbertRP – Ramon Troncoso, Brent LeachLucas May (C), Xavier Paul (RF), Chin Lung Hu (SS), Ivan DeJesus, Jr. (2B), maybe Trayvon Robinson (CF)I think James McDonald (or John Ely) and Trayvon Robinson (or Xavier Paul) would be a good deal for the Pirates.
I like the thought process here, but I think Trayvon Robinson would be traded for something better than Maholm. But Ned has traded switch hitters for two straight years, wouldn’t be surprised if he does it again…
As a Dodger fan I’d like to hang on to Robinson, but I think the Pirates could pry him away…
You don’t think the Pirates could land Gordon in exchange for paying portion of Maholm’s remaining salary?
No.
less than 0.000001% chance. Just being honest.
I was merely matching up needs. Pirates need SS and pitching. I know little about either prospect.
No problem. Dee Gordon is just the Dodgers highest rated prospect and they’re very high on him.
Ivan DeJesus, Jr. or Chin Lung Hu. Both play SS.
Then John Ely, James McDonald, Scott Elbert, Jesus A. Castillo for SP.
I think they’d take DeJesus Jr. first, then start with Ely, and keep arguing til they settled on a SP. But Definately would take D Jr. if it was an option.
They’ve got a ton of pitching prospects at AA or lower, but I could also see them try and get two more low level prospects instead of a near-ML ready pitcher.
The Pirates need a SS, and SP help. They have a ton of CF depth, so count that out right away. Maholm is a #3 pitcher for a team with good IF fielding. Not sure if that’s what the Dodgers have? If this deal went through, the Bucs would have to get a SS, and an SP. The SS would have to be close to AAA/ML level and SP could be AAA. Maholm is best SP Pirates have and he’s cheap enough to keep that they’re in no rush to trade him.
I think the deal would have to be James McDonald and Ivan DeJesus, Jr. *or* John Ely and Chin Lung Hu. (The former deal a better SS, lesser SP, the latter deal a lesser SS, better SP.)
haha not gonna happen! not for an average pitcher like maholm
No, those are among the Dodgers top ten prospects. Maholm is not worth any better than the 15-20 range.
But Casey Blake was worth Carlos Santana?
i want to know how the dodgers PR guy is. we’ll hear in a few weeks that no one from the pirates actually talked to anyone from the dodgers.
I wouldn’t be surprised, but Maholm looks like a reasonable pickup considering they’re losing Padilla and Kuroda this offseason, and you know they’re not going to outbid anybody on free agent pitching…
Meanwhile, Dodger fans wouldn’t accept a rotation of Kershaw, Billingsley, Ely, McDonald and Haeger/Elbert/Monasterios for 2011.
I’d look at this as a move for 2011 rather than a move for actually trying to contend this year. Really, though, the Dodgers should be sellers. With the ownership dispute they’re not going to contend for a couple of years, and they’re not going to retain half of Broxton, Ethier, Kemp, Martin, Loney and Billingsley when they reach free agency. May as well sell high on those guys (esp. Broxton, free agent after 2011) and bring back major league ready prospects in return.
I would trade anyone but Kershaw, Kemp, and Ethier… Maybe just Kershaw and Kemp..
Agreed.
For now, I’d try to move Furcal, Broxton and Kuroda or Padilla. I think they could all bring back fairly nice returns from contending teams.
It would never happen, though. That would be a huge PR mistake for the Dodgers..
Sadly true.
Yeah right we all know their plan is to talk about deals until they fall out of contention in the next two weeks and become sudden sellers.
No way the Dodgers would ever, ever trade Loney for Maholm.
This is a pretty bad idea.
See, this is exactly what I was talking about a couple days ago. MLBTR posted an article from Pirates GM Huntington saying “We’re done with the prospect gathering phase” of his plan… And now this…
This team already has horrific starting pitching. I shudder to think what it will look like if they trade one of their few competent starters for prospects.
The ONLY way this makes sense is if they get a major league ready arm in return. But I have to wonder if the Dodgers have a major league ready arm in AAA, why don’t they bring him up instead of trading for Maholm?
And for the record, Maholm doesn’t have “great stuff” but he’s a good starter. People get too worked up over the radar gun. Maholm has been let down by terrible defense, an inept offense, and a bad bullpen these past few years. He could’ve easily posted 15 wins the last two years if he had a good team behind him.
He has also stated countless times that if there is an offer out there that he likes he is going to take it.
Personally, I don’t care much if they lose more pitching. As bad as this sounds, there really is no point in trying the rest of 2010. They’re miles from contention or even .500 for that matter. As a fan, I want to see them win, sure….but it’s in the club’s best interest (long term) to keep tanking and hopefully end up drafting Rendon and pick up another big piece for 2012-2013 when they should be ready to compete.
This team will never get better if they don’t experience winning sooner or later. I understand it would be nice to get the top pick and get themselves a Strasburg/Harper type talent, but how can you honestly say you want them to just keep losing this year? It has to stop sometime. If they don’t make any upgrades on their roster, would you just hope they tank next year as well? The team on the field today is pretty much what we should be expecting for the next 3-5 years. So if they continue to suck, that doesn’t look very well for the future.
Like I said, what is the point? What’s the point in going say, slightly better than .500 the rest of the way? They still finish 20+ games out and still having a losing record to show for it and end up picking a good player but not a star level player. Going .500 is the worst case scenario for an entire season…that gets you no playoffs and a middle of the first round pick. If you’re going to suck you may as well suck epically until you’re ready to compete and pick up pieces like Alvarez and Taillon and hopefully Rendon along the way. The absolute best case scenario for the Pirates, right now, is to keep on losing, but in competitive losses with the young core gaining experience.
There are plenty of good players drafted other than top picks, and even out of the top 10. Heyward, Smoak, Wallace, Ike Davis, Bruce, McCutchen, Rasmus, and a lot more guys who are top prospects were picked outside of the top 5-10. I understand your point, but I would just never feel that way. I enjoy watching Pirates games every night and I simply don’t enjoy watching them lose games.
The San Diego Padres could have tanked last season and the next few years to accumulate top picks, but they finished off the season strong and are in first place this year. That is not extremely common, but if the players start to get more comfortable which usually comes from winning, they will start to see better results.
I’m not happy to hear this either, but if the dodgers are willing to part with a top 10 prospect (DeJesus Jr.) who can fill our void at SS, and tack on another AAA SP, then why not?
Their’s arms a plenty in the minors, something that will be evident in 1-2 years, so take a risk, and trade our best SP for a potential star SS. It’d pay for itself in the long run.
They could also steal a pair of lower teir pitchers like Miller and Webster, instead of a scrub at AAA.
An Maholm has been let down by terrible defense, an inept offense, and a bad bullpen these past few years. He could’ve easily posted 15 wins the last two years if he had a good team behind him.
With that logic, I guess he should go to the Yankees and post 20 Wins huh? Defense is irrelevant, bullpen is irrelevant and anything else other than ERA is irrelevant. ERA is the ONLY barometer of how a Pitcher has performed. You could be 20-5 with an ERA of 5.25 and you would NOT be a good pitcher. You would probably be pitching for a great team. Conversely, if you are 5-20 with an ERA of 1.95, you are a GREAT pitcher and need a new team. His ERA is 4.03 with a career of 4.29. Not the worst but certainly not needed on the Dodgers.
Maholm doesn’t fill the role of ace. He takes the #5 spot in the rotation from McDonald/Ely/Haeger/Vargas and assures another arm in 2011 when the Dodgers lose Kuroda and Padilla.
I’d look at him more as an arm for 2011 than somebody that helps the Dodgers contend this year…
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A CF will not be coming back as that might the only strength the Pirates (Tabata, McCutchen) have.
As a Pirates fan, I’m not too excited about the rest of the farm system after Gordon.
While Maholm is certainly not exciting, he is a competant 3 or 4 in the majors, would do well at Dodger stadium and is left handed.
I’d ask for Gordon and offer to pay some salary while preparing to walk away from this one.
I doubt the Pirates will settle for some prospects with huge question marks, like the ones I have seen here from LA.
To get Sanchez last year the Giants had to part with a Top prospect overall to get him. They will probably want Ethan Martin for Maholm, there are not that many pitchers with ERAs that low, they don’t have to trade him, they have him signed to a cheap contract. The Dodgers will have to overpay if they want him, else they can go elsewhere and pick up someone from the garbage bin.
Yeah but that was a bad trade for the giants.
How is that a bad trade? Alderson is struggling in AA, just got sent back to Advanced A. Sanchez is an OK major league 2B, which is a position the Giants needed to shore up over the offseason, and he plays good defense there.
Doesn’t matter how badly Alderson is doing. Fact is they traded what was one of their top 5 prospects for an average player. Not saying getting Sanchez was bad, but should have landed him for less. That trade is not an indicator that Maholm would demand a top 5 Dodger prospect as was indicated.
OK, here’s what really matters: Alderson might have been a Top 5 pitcher, but any Giants fan worth his salt would know that the only reason he was that high was because he was so young and seemingly ready to deliver on his potential: as a middle of rotation starter. Proven actual average MLB starting 2B for a potentially average MLB starter.
But I’ll concede that Ethan Martin might be too high a price to pay, as one book I read says that he could be a top of rotation guy, which is more than Alderson could ever be, based on reports I’ve read on both.
Still, Maholm is a proven starter, whereas Martin is still in the minors. Sometimes you just have to overpay to get what you need, particularly when you are sinking in the division as we speak and need help with their 5th starter.
Plus, more importantly, Martin is struggling at Advanced A level, 4.97 ERA is not particularly good, even in the Cal League, which is a strong hitters league, he is walking way too many guys right now. And at 21, he’s only slightly young for the league, but he’s not even average there, 4.53 ERA average for the league, meaning he’s probably headed for another year in Advanced A next season.
Alderson, at least, handled Advanced A (same league, in fact) handily, he had nothing to prove there after nearly 1.5 seasons there, whereas Martin still has to prove he can even pitch in that league. If anything, Martin might not be enough to get Maholm, who has been slightly above average in his career and this season in ERA.
Is Maholm better than Kershaw? Never in his life. Is he better than Bills? That is a negative. Is he better than Kuroda? Um no. Is he better than Padilla.. LOL probably not.
YAY!! Another bottom of the rotation pitcher!!
Anyone who said Gordon, Martin, Robinson, or anyone else whos decent is available is a silly sap.