The Cubs have yet to declare themselves buyers or sellers despite a 37-47 record, but Ken Davidoff of Newsday tweets that the team is starting to get "more serious" about making deals. Davidoff also mentions that the Mets "like the idea" of adding Ted Lilly to their rotation while assuming the $6MM left on his contract in order to give up fewer prospects in a trade.
Lilly is just one of several pieces the Cubs could shop, along with Ryan Theriot, Mike Fontenot, Jeff Baker, Derrek Lee, Kosuke Fukudome, and Xavier Nady. The Giants could have interest in Theriot and Chicago tried to push Fukudome on the Red Sox, but nothing has materialized just yet.
The Mets have expressed interest in adding a quality starter, and Lilly would certainly fit the bill. There is some uncertainty about the team's ability to add payroll however, so whether or not they can actually take on Lilly's salary remains to be seen.
Lilly has always pitched well against the Mets so I can undersand their interest. Still think they need a Lee, Oswalt or Haren for second half push as Braves and Phils likely won’t sit still and will improve.
disagree. Santana, Pelfrey and Niese have been great and Dickey has been a pleasant surprise.
Lilly’s trouble’s have came via the long ball and Citifield is where HRs go to die…considering the cost would be fairly low compared to Lee…its a perfect fit to be the #3 SP
Santana, Pelfrey, Lilly, Niese, Dickey is a great rotation
Isn’t it Ken Davidoff, Mike?
I doubt they can trade their big payroll guys but the middle infielders ought to interest some teams.
Yeah, fixed. Thanks.
Time to show us what kind of owners you are, Ricketts’s. Swallow Terrible Ted’s salary to get better players in return. It’ll pay off in the long run with tickets, concessions and merchandise sales.
TERRIBLE Ted? What on Earth are you going on about? Lilly has been nothing short of brilliant in his 4 years with the Cubs. Yeah, his injuries at the end of lat year and the start of this one sucked, but he’s been mostly durable and consistent.
The last start was terrible, but to call his overall body of work in Chicago terrible is moronic.
Nice to see that you are posting on the main site as well as the forums. Anyway, I agree with you. Lilly has been pretty solid for the Cubs.
My friends and I call him Tremendous Ted. Seems more fitting.
Lilly has been extremely dependable for the Cubs, but didn’t show much in the playoffs.
The “Terrible” is meant as a compliment. He’ll strike you out and then rip your still-beating heart out of your chest while you watch.
Lilly has been the best starter on the Cubs since he signed. The only one who even comes close is Dempster.
To be more on-topic, it’s about time. The injuries to some key infielders (Polanco, Utley, Tulowitzki, Pedroia, and so on) should make all 3 of the Chicago infielders trade candidates. None will bring back exceptional talent, but none are in the team’s long-term plans regardless.
As much as it would suck to see Lee go (he stood up to Z, and there’s no legit 1B in the minors for Chicago), he should. If the Cubs can get back a decent corner IF prospect or 2-3 good ones total, that’s great. The same goes for Lilly.
As far as Fukudome goes, getting NYTHING for him, while getting a bit of salary relief, would be fantastic as well. Nady should get 1 or 2 menial prospects as well.
Basically, the Cubs’ job now is to move contracts, deepen the farm, and get ready to spend this offseason (since they have about $30 million coming off of the books between Lee, Lilly, Fontenot, Nady, and whatever they move in a deal).
I agree with all of that, but as bad as they are right now, they shouldn’t be spending more money. Their problems aren’t gonna be fixed overnight as you might want them to, and they would be better off to bring in some lower tiered players on short contracts to bridge the gap until their salary problems resolve themselves. It’s the Nadys and the Felipe Lopez’s that they should be bringing in next year as well and save the big fish for when they can really make an impact, cause they can’t do anything next year either with all those contracts. They just don’t have Detroit’s farm to help compensate for that.
I’m not saying they should spend on mega deals this winter. The problem is, though, that they will have some notable holes if they make all of these trades.
If Lee goes, there is no one (now that Tracy is gone) to play 1B. If Nady goes as well, then they HAVE to call on Hoffpauir, I guess.
Trading Theriot, Baker, and Fontenot leaves them with Castro and Barney in the minors as their middle-infield combo.
Moving Nady and Fukudome leaves them without a 4th OF, though Fuld could come up and fill that spot. Still, he’s not an ideal 4th OF, but his defense is pretty good.
Moving Lilly means that the team is one starter short. That can be alleviated with Cashner. So, they go into 2011 with Dempster, Wells, Gorzelanny, Silva, and Cashner, unless Zambrano makes a miraculous turnaround on and off the field.
This team has deep enough pockets, even with Sori and Z on the roster, that they shouldn’t be playing throwaway seasons to develop talent. They would basically be running out a rotation of a #2 in Dempster, two fringe #3/4 guys in Gorzelanny and Wells, a #5 in Silva, and a rookie in Cashner. They DO have Carpenter and Jackson as well, but they can’t just start playing like a small market team all of the sudden.
At the same time with the offense, they can’t be running out a quad-A player in Hoffpauir to start at first and a MLB backup in Barney to start at second.
If the team has $30 million to spend in the offseason, they should AT LEAST get a 1-year guy like Pena (who is a 1-year guy with the way he’s played this year) and SOMEONE to start at second, along with probably a starting pitcher.
I, personally, don’t see why a team would be interested in picking up Lee or Nady and giving up anything in return. Nady is a DH who is not producing at the plate. And as good as Lee has been over the years, he’s owed a ton of money and looks like Jermaine Dye did last year in the second half (where is JD, anyway?).
Nady rarely gets to start, so it’s hard to put it on his shoulders that he doesn’t come in and hit pinch-hit bombs every time out. He can hit, as evidenced by his 2006-2008 numbers. When guys like Mark Kotsay are starting at DH in the majors, there is room on a roster for Xavier Nady.
Lee hasn’t been what he can be, and that may just be aging. Still, he plays pretty good defense, and would probably be a great 1B/DH combo for the Sox. He is like Konerko, really; both are kind of fragile over nagging injuries and could benefit from the DH more often.
As far as Dye, he can’t field and is old, so no one wanted to give him the $5 million he was commanding.
Ted Lilly is a solid addition anywhere. His presence alone is great. He’s a baller.
I’m not so sure that he’s a baller, but he should avoid most of the smaller ballparks. His fly balls seem to have increased, so somewhere like PetCo or Citi would suit him well.
wouldn’t mind seeing lee go back west to SF, where he’s semi-local (sacramento)
and his .230 avg with a terrible OPS…I say no Derek Lee is on the wrong side of 30 and no one is going to want that salary BUT I’ll change my mind if we swap Aaron Rowand for Lee then I’ll consider it…
Really? Because that was kind of the same thoughts that people had with Aubrey Huff. How’s that going now?
Two words: Kila Kai’ahue.
Like the idea – good pop, great OBP…but he might not even be 1B material…plus, why would KC sell him at this point? They’ll be selling just like the Cubs should.
Probably because they’ve got Billy Butler already, and they’re supposedly letting Alex Gordon try out 1B and LF in the minors, go Kila’s kind of blocked all around.
It’s Kila or Gordon, and I’d love it if the Cubs got either.
He’s annihilated AAA pitching for two years playing on the farm for a team with offensive woes… and they’ve given him 28 AB to show for it. For whatever reason, KC clearly doesn’t value him.
I’d love to see them resign Ted after the season’s over then. He’ll always be one of my favorites.
Lilly will be 35 at the beginning of next season, and I’ll bet he pushes for a 3-yr deal. Assuming their financial situation is in order, I’m betting he signs with the Dodgers after this season.Bring up a couple of the kids to fight it out for the rotation: Gorzelanny, Dempster, & Wells are a solid (if unspectacular) front-three. Let Silva fight for the No. 4 spot and let Coleman/Jackson/Diamond fight it out for the 5th spot. Bullpen of Marshall, Samardzija, Cashner, Schlitter, Guzman/Caridad (whichever one is healthy), Coleman/Diamond (whichever one doesn’t start), Grabow, plus one wild card (Howry? other?), leading to Marmol. It’s a serviceable staff.
That’s not a bad staff at all.
I’m just kind of sentimentally attached to Ted. He’s been great for us, I’ll be sad to see him go.
I think Cashner is going to get every chance to start before they permanently force him to be the setup guy. He has a good fastball and a slider, so he just needs to get a curve and.or change-up, which I think he can pick up.
Wells has been awful in the 1st, and Gorzelanny’s been rather inconsistent at times. If they are the #2 and #3, the Cubs can call it a season and look to 2012, because 2011 will be dead.
Also, I like Lilly too, but they need to retool the farm system. They could trade him now then resign him in the winter, but I think they need to focus on moving on from some of these older players for now.
Unless, there are too E’s after the L in his last name and he pitches for Seattle I don’t want him….seriously, how can you even consider him when Lee, Oswalt and Haren are around….also I don’t want any of the Yankees leftover trash
You can get Lilly for a low price without giving up Mejia or Flores.
Exactly. There’s not going to be nearly the price tag on Lilly that there is on any of the more established aces, so he’d be a good option to go after.
Heck, the Mets could possibly get one of those aces AND Lilly if management is willing to go a little crazy with money for half of the season.
Dbreer23…. The best pitcher on the the cubs staff this year will have to fight for the #4 spot in the rotation next year?
Silva hasn’t been the best pitcher there this year, Dempster has. And we all know how quickly Silva can fall off of the face of the earth.
Yep, I think so. Silva will regress to the the mean (think MIN in 2005 or 2007) – good, but with as many hits as he gives up (albeit with a ridiculous amount of walks, or lack thereof), he’s due to start heading back downhill. He could be a #3 certainly, but put him up against the better #1/#2 SPs in the league, and his W-L record takes a big turn. He does have the best K/9 rate of his career (and it’s not even close), so if he can keep that up, then yeah, I could see him as a solid #3. I’m just not banking on it. He’s a great story for this year, and I’m happier to have him rather than Bradley in the short and long run, but eventually the magic dust wears off.
In hindsight, maybe ‘fight for a spot’ was the wrong thing to say – maybe ‘settle into the #4 spot’ would be a more proper way to put it.
If the Cubs want salary relief, they should trade Lilly(6 mil) and Fukodome(remaining 20) to the Mets for Lucas Duda(1st baseman), a mid level pitching prospect and take back Luis Castillo(remaining 9 million) plus kick in 5 million dollars. They save 12 million, open up their OF for the future, get a future 1st baseman, and can move Fontenot/Theriot/Baker for other needs. Keep Castillo around for a year as their lead-off bat and get some use out of him.
Mets get Lilly for the stretch run, pick up some draft picks, platoon Fukodome with Francouer this year(and move JF him over the winter). They end up having to owe Fukodome 12 million minus the 5/6 they won’t have to pay to keep Francouer…so about 6/7 million.
Castillo would be the worst leadoff guy in the world. I’d lead off with Soto before I led off with Castillo. Soto’s actually got a .406 OBP, while Castillo sits at .347.
Dude isn’t anything to write home about, IMO, either.
The Cubs already have 3 2Bs as well, so getting Castillo doesn’t ALLOW them to move those guys. It makes him the #4 in a revolving 2B door of rather nonexplosive guys. Heck, I’d call up Darwin Barney over starting Castillo.
This would honestly be the worst move the Cubs could make.
So you would pass up the opportunity to move Fukodome, let a slow runner in Soto lead-off and not move one of the younger 2nd baseman(there will be interest for one of them this deadline for a need) and not save 12 million dollars?
The Cubs shouldn’t deliberately handcuff themselves to save money. As nice as getting $12 million in savings would be, in an uncapped sport like baseball, it doesn’t really make sense to do this when they’re not getting anything noteworthy in return. Also, where is the $12 million in savings coming from? Isn’t Castillo under contract for $6 million next year, making it a $7.5 million or so savings? If they kick in $5 million for next year, then it’s only a $2.5 million savings, meaning they couldn’t even afford a player on Nady’s level with the savings.
Castillo is owed 6 million next year and a remaining 3 million for this year…9 million total. Lilliy and Fukodome’s combined salaries(remaining this year and KF next season) is about 26 million. That’s a savings of 17 million…throwing in another 5 million in cash(to even out some value) leaves the Cubs saving 12 million. Cubs aren’t handcuffing themselves. They lose an albatross contract in KF in exchange for a much more manageable one in Castillo who can still get on base and play average defense. Cubs are looking to move Fontenot/Baker, maybe Theriot to a team that could use a MIf’er at the deadline. Getting Castillo allows them to move one or two of them for one of their other needs. They should get a decent(not great prospect)… because of the salary they will be saving in the deal for Lilly. Maybe a solid arm in Josh Stinson or Mike Antonini or a 1st baseman like NickEvans
Castillo is owed 6 million next year and a remaining 3 million for this year…9 million total. Lilliy and Fukodome’s combined salaries(remaining this year and KF next season) is about 26 million. That’s a savings of 17 million…throwing in another 5 million in cash(to even out some value) leaves the Cubs saving 12 million. Cubs aren’t handcuffing themselves. They lose an albatross contract in KF in exchange for a much more manageable one in Castillo who can still get on base and play average defense. Cubs are looking to move Fontenot/Baker, maybe Theriot to a team that could use a MIf’er at the deadline. Getting Castillo allows them to move one or two of them for one of their other needs. They should get a decent(not great prospect)… because of the salary they will be saving in the deal for Lilly. Maybe a solid arm in Josh Stinson or Mike Antonini or a 1st baseman like NickEvans
i hope theriot stays around. he is much better playing double play balls then fontenot and more consistent when in the lineup everyday. at least until hak ju comes up.
sidenote- making my first trip to dodger stadium on friday night. is it as ghetto as i imagine it in my mind? not sure if i should wear any of my cubs gear as i don’t want to get stabbed.
Cubs are DONE!!!!!! Trade shed the payroll and get mediocre players outta here.
Ryan Theriot to the Giants for Chris Ray
Ted Lilly and James Adduci to the Mets for Angel Pagan and a pitching prospect
Kosuke Fukudome to the Padres for anything imaginable
Carlos Silva Jeff Stevens and some one else to the Dodgers George Sherill and people
Jeff Baker to the Yankees minor leaguer
Xavier Nady to the Angels minor leaguer
We need to gut this team dry and start over.
why would the Cubs want Chris Ray?
LOL, Chris Ray? You must be drinking. The Cubs have more than enough live, young arms in the minors to where they don’t need scrubby Chris Ray.
The Mets aren’t moving Pagan because they have no assurance of Beltran’s health, and that’s a terrible deal for them anyways. Also, the point in moving Fukudome is so Colvin can play.
The Padres will never pay for Fukudome.
Sherrill is just Grabow 2.0, so pass there, and Stevens is better than Sherrill anyways.
I don’t want anything from the barren NYY farm.
The Angels have some decent minors guys, so maybe on that, but I think they’d trade for Derrek Lee first with Morales out.
Basically, you have swung and missed on all of these proposals.
OK, I’ll give it a try:
– Theriot to STL for a minor league pitcher (it hurts to trade him in-division, but their 2B/SS situation is awful); San Diego might also be a destination
– Lee to the Angels, but not much coming back, maybe a LHP like Kehrer or Skaggs
– Lilly to the Dodgers for kid like Lambo (with some pot problems), who’s a 1B/OF prospect with a great bat…just remember, LAD traded Josh Bell for Sherrill, so they’re open to shedding youth to win.
– Nady to the Padres, send him back home. Take a young but untested power prospect like Cody Decker (1B)
– Fukudome to …well, I’m not sure. The only competing team who might need a LH hitting OF might be the Rays, but he’d be a bench guy there, so we won’t get much for him, and would have to eat a ton of salary.
– Fontenot & Baker are non-tenders next year.
Leaves a core of Soto (C), Castro (SS), Colvin (RF), Byrd (CF) and Soriano (LF) as position players; bring up Hak-Ju Lee for 2B (or shift Castro to 2B). Hope for Aramis to be healthy at 3B, or shift him to 1B and bring Vitters up a little early (or hire a CHEAP stop-gap). Maybe Soto could be shifted to 1B and Castillo comes up to catch.
DLee won’t be traded. 10 and 5 rights, terrible season. He has no value and I can’t see them getting anything for him. Just let him walk at the end of the year.
Fukudome and Zambrano will be easier to move in the off season. Soriano is unmoveable because of the contract. Ramirez isn’t going anywhere, neither is Dempster or Marmol or Castro or Colvin.
Nady would be a good fit for the Rockies-he could platoon with Giambi until Helton returns and he can play some OF for them too.
I would flip Marlon Byrd right now. His value is as high as it will be over the life of his contract. He is the one moveable guy in the OF and trading him would open up CF for Colvin to play everyday the rest of the way. The Cubs can engage a bunch of teams on Byrd because of the season he has had and a reasonable contract. I like Atlanta as a trade partner here. They are looking for a RH bat for the OF. The Cubs could take Melky Cabrera back along with 2 or 3 prospects (depending on the quality). Cabrera can be flipped elsewhere or non tendered after the season..
They should trade Lilly and get what they can for him. Plenty of teams will want him.
I also think they should make Soto available and trade him if tehy get the right offer. Boston and Texas would see him as a strong upgrade. They both have solid prospects to trade. Texas could take him now because he earns very little money and it wouldn’t affect their payroll.
They should move Silva too. Same as Byrd, his value will never be higher than it is right now.
Theriot, Fontenot and Baker should all be moved. Bring Darwin Barney up to play 2B the rest of teh season and see if he is viable as a regular or if he is only a utility guy.
Colorado doesn’t need any OF help. They already have Smith, Hawpe, Gonzalez, and Fowler, so Nady is almost worthless when Helton returns if they don’t cut Giambi.
Z is probably best saved for a winter trade, in the hopes that he performs in the second half.
Fukudome’s value is only going to decline with Colvin taking his playing time.
Yep, the Cubs are stuck with Rammy for one more year, in the hopes that Vitters finds something like baseball skills at the plate.
Lee will accept a trade, I would bet, because playing for the Cubs this year is pointless, and I’m sure he’d rather have a chance to win. He could fit in a few places, with the Angels being the favorite, from what others have said.
Trading Byrd does the team no good. What are they going to get back for him better than an All-Star caliber CF on a cheap contract? Melky Cabrera is a joke on the field. I wouldn’t trade Silva for him.
Agreed on Lilly, and that is what will happen.
Soto being traded is a moronic move as well. This is only his 3rd year, and they don’t have an offensive catcher in the minors. They have the anemic Hill and Wellington Castillo after him.
I would love to see Silva moved, but IDK if anyone would take him. They should definitely try, though.
Agreed on Barney and the 2B players.
so moving Byrd at age 32 having teh best year of his career and getting max return for him does no good? also moving his backloaded contract ($12 million over teh next two seasons) and opening up CF for Colvin every day does no good. I suggest taking Cabrera only because he makes a little over $2 million and that would better balance the money this year between the two players. Cabrera can be flat our released if they don’t want him.
I’d rather move Soriano AND Fukudome, but that is unlikely with the dollars they are owed. So Byrd is the moveable piece with HIGH value.
See my Soto discusion response below.
Agreed,
Silva and Byrd are playing way over their career norms right now. If you can parlay that into 1) Getting out from under Silva’s 2011 contract or 2) getting a legit prospect for Byrd. You need to get that done.
2011 is probably another rebuilding year for the Cubs. And Marlon Byrd is probably a 4th outfielder making 6 million dollars by 2012.
If there is a knock on Tim Wilkens draft record, its that he doesn’t even attempt to draft big bats. This seems true even from his Toronto and Tampa days.
Cubs don’t have any dynamic offensive guys anywhere in the system. At least none that project as middle of the order mashers.
so moving Byrd at age 32 having teh best year of his career and getting max return for him does no good? also moving his backloaded contract ($12 million over teh next two seasons) and opening up CF for Colvin every day does no good. I suggest taking Cabrera only because he makes a little over $2 million and that would better balance the money this year between the two players. Cabrera can be flat our released if they don’t want him.
I’d rather move Soriano AND Fukudome, but that is unlikely with the dollars they are owed. So Byrd is the moveable piece with HIGH value.
See my Soto discusion response below.
10/5 rights typically aren’t as important when you’re talking about a veteran used to winning who’s stuck on a losing team he knows isn’t going to resign him anyway.
Plus, if the Cubs could set up a trade for D-Lee to Anaheim to fill in for Kendry Morales, he’d likely jump at that. He’s from California, and IIRC, his disabled daughter gets treatment for a genetic disorder out there.
Would he leave a sinking ship to join a pennant race near his wife and kids? You have to think he would.
DLee is used to winning? His first full season was 1998 with the Marlins.
He has played in the post season 3 times 2003 (FLA) and 2007, 08 (Cubs)
So in his 13th season he has been in the post season 3 times. The Cubs finished over 500 with him in 04 and 09. So 5 winning seasons in 12 years (this year TBA).
How is DLee used to winning? How is he right now better than Mike Napoli offensively for the Angels? Why would the Angels give anything of value for a guy with a sore back a batting average that isn’t even at 240?
Earlier this year when the Lee rumors started there were indications that Lee had no intention of waiving his no trade clause. Plus the eye issue his daughter has isn’t the worst case scenario that they thought when she was first diagnosed. She has a very small chance of going blind (unlike what they originally thought).
Of Lee’s seven seasons as a Cub, four ended above .500 and two others were spent plausibly contending before a late season collapse. So yeah, I think he’s used to considering himself “in it.” Arguing otherwise is just arguing to argue.
I didn’t notice where I said he’d be better than Napoli or that the Angels should pay well for him. Can you cite where I did, or were you just assuming I felt that way so you could feel superior correcting me?
CWAA.
“plausibly contending”That isn’t used to winning. Derek Jeter is used to winning….all players think they have a shot, they have to or they would just quit on the season. Realistically, he has only had 4 seasons, the 3 playoff years and 2004 when the Cubs colapsed in the last week of really contending with a legit shot. Your math is funny to me…2004 in it to the end. 2005, 2006 terrible teams. playoffs is 2007, 2008. Collapsed in August of 2009, not really in it for the last two months. 500 isn’t in it…playing to the last weekend to get to the playoffs is in it. One winning season with the Marlins (2003)..again Derek Jeter is used to winning…My point isn’t to “feel superior” but to say look at your statement and be able to back it up with facts. You can’t with that one.You didn’t say Lee was better than Napoli but why would they acquire Lee but to replace Napoli at 1B????????????? I don’t think you want to just give DLee away either, so what can you expect in return? I’m saying not much given his bad year aching back and big salary.
So you think, in terms of how he feels about his team’s chances, D-Lee feels just like he does in any other year? That’s what you think? That’s just silly. Read a paper. Chrissakes.
I was offering the Angels as a hypothetical situation where D-Lee would certainly consider waiving his 10/5 rights. The point wasn’t him over Napoli and I wasn’t even getting into hypothetical returns. I was just pointing out that 10/5 rights don’t guarantee a guy rejects a trade. You have to consider the situation.
So you think, in terms of how he feels about his team’s chances, D-Lee feels just like he does in any other year? That’s what you think? That’s just silly. Read a paper. Chrissakes.
I was offering the Angels as a hypothetical situation where D-Lee would certainly consider waiving his 10/5 rights. The point wasn’t him over Napoli and I wasn’t even getting into hypothetical returns. I was just pointing out that 10/5 rights don’t guarantee a guy rejects a trade. You have to consider the situation.
“plausibly contending”That isn’t used to winning. Derek Jeter is used to winning….all players think they have a shot, they have to or they would just quit on the season. Realistically, he has only had 4 seasons, the 3 playoff years and 2004 when the Cubs colapsed in the last week of really contending with a legit shot. Your math is funny to me…2004 in it to the end. 2005, 2006 terrible teams. playoffs is 2007, 2008. Collapsed in August of 2009, not really in it for the last two months. 500 isn’t in it…playing to the last weekend to get to the playoffs is in it. One winning season with the Marlins (2003)..again Derek Jeter is used to winning…My point isn’t to “feel superior” but to say look at your statement and be able to back it up with facts. You can’t with that one.You didn’t say Lee was better than Napoli but why would they acquire Lee but to replace Napoli at 1B????????????? I don’t think you want to just give DLee away either, so what can you expect in return? I’m saying not much given his bad year aching back and big salary.
Of Lee’s seven seasons as a Cub, four ended above .500 and two others were spent plausibly contending before a late season collapse. So yeah, I think he’s used to considering himself “in it.” Arguing otherwise is just arguing to argue.
I didn’t notice where I said he’d be better than Napoli or that the Angels should pay well for him. Can you cite where I did, or were you just assuming I felt that way so you could feel superior correcting me?
CWAA.
DLee is used to winning? His first full season was 1998 with the Marlins.
He has played in the post season 3 times 2003 (FLA) and 2007, 08 (Cubs)
So in his 13th season he has been in the post season 3 times. The Cubs finished over 500 with him in 04 and 09. So 5 winning seasons in 12 years (this year TBA).
How is DLee used to winning? How is he right now better than Mike Napoli offensively for the Angels? Why would the Angels give anything of value for a guy with a sore back a batting average that isn’t even at 240?
Earlier this year when the Lee rumors started there were indications that Lee had no intention of waiving his no trade clause. Plus the eye issue his daughter has isn’t the worst case scenario that they thought when she was first diagnosed. She has a very small chance of going blind (unlike what they originally thought).
Trading Soto would be sub-moronic.
And I don’t think even the most generous scouting reports have Darwin Barney as anything other than a fringe guy.
Silva’s value may be high, but so is his salary. The latter cancels out a great deal of the former.
i didn’t say they HAD to or SHOULD trade Soto. I said they should put him out there and see what offers they get. If you could get 3 or 4 high quality guys that make you better in 2011 for one guy, don’t you consider it? This woudl be a case of being able to demand a lot back because : Soto is young, still has 3 years of team control and is a solid all around player with a lot of value. If you don’t get what you want for him, you don’t move him.I’m not saying Barney is the long term answer, but can he give you less that Theriot has this year? or the same? or more? Let’s take 2 months and find out. Then go into the off season knowing you need help at 2B or you don’t.You may have to eat some Silva money but if you can get a team to take most of his salary you are coming out ahead and you might get a decent prospect back. Again…they shoudln;t be holding onto him because YOU think no one will take that contract.
I think it’s blatantly obvious that no one would give 3-4 good prospects for Soto.
I think they should try out Barney as well, jut for the sake of doing it.
Silva isn’t THAT expensive. I mean, is $11-12 million really that excessive in a market where Ben Sheets can get $10 million after missing a year? I know that Chicago will probably have to kick in $3-5 million to make the trade viable, but it’s worth exploring. Teams like the Dodgers are desperate for pitching.
I think it’s blatantly obvious that no one would give 3-4 good prospects for Soto.
I think they should try out Barney as well, jut for the sake of doing it.
Silva isn’t THAT expensive. I mean, is $11-12 million really that excessive in a market where Ben Sheets can get $10 million after missing a year? I know that Chicago will probably have to kick in $3-5 million to make the trade viable, but it’s worth exploring. Teams like the Dodgers are desperate for pitching.
i didn’t say they HAD to or SHOULD trade Soto. I said they should put him out there and see what offers they get. If you could get 3 or 4 high quality guys that make you better in 2011 for one guy, don’t you consider it? This woudl be a case of being able to demand a lot back because : Soto is young, still has 3 years of team control and is a solid all around player with a lot of value. If you don’t get what you want for him, you don’t move him.I’m not saying Barney is the long term answer, but can he give you less that Theriot has this year? or the same? or more? Let’s take 2 months and find out. Then go into the off season knowing you need help at 2B or you don’t.You may have to eat some Silva money but if you can get a team to take most of his salary you are coming out ahead and you might get a decent prospect back. Again…they shoudln;t be holding onto him because YOU think no one will take that contract.
what a sad bunch of sell-low veterans and journeymen, and NL-only pitcher and a bloated contract that comes with a bib and a vomit bucket.
Yeah, minus his pretty good years in Toronto…I smell a Yankees fan bitter that Ted didn’t dominate in New York, perhaps?
After what Okajima and Dice-K have done, it wouldn’t be safe to send another Japanese player up here.
What about Ichiro and Matsui?
LOL I was kidding those proposals are B.S.
LOL I was kidding those proposals are B.S.
Even if you think the Cubs, a rebuilding team in search of controllable, productive young players, would want to trade Soto (who is exactly that), do you not see that with Wilson Ramos, Jesus Montero, maybe Chris Iannetta and several other young catchers available, this is an exceptionally poor time to try and get a high return on a young catcher?Can Darwin Barney do less than Ryan Theriot? Well, let’s put it this way, can a guy with a .684 OPS at AAA this year (.643 last year) do less than a guy whose pessimistic ZIPS projection for the rest of the year is .696, who was worth $25.3 million over the previous two years? Yeah, he probably can be much worse. He comes out even further behind Fontenot.Roy Oswalt is proving hard to trade because teams can’t afford to pay his salary. Even the ones who’d consider it are loath to do that and give up worthwhile prospects as well, even though Oswalt is a pitcher with a good track record and strong scouting reports. If teams don’t think HE’S worth eating money + giving up talent, how do you think they feel about Silva?
Even if you think the Cubs, a rebuilding team in search of controllable, productive young players, would want to trade Soto (who is exactly that), do you not see that with Wilson Ramos, Jesus Montero, maybe Chris Iannetta and several other young catchers available, this is an exceptionally poor time to try and get a high return on a young catcher?Can Darwin Barney do less than Ryan Theriot? Well, let’s put it this way, can a guy with a .684 OPS at AAA this year (.643 last year) do less than a guy whose pessimistic ZIPS projection for the rest of the year is .696, who was worth $25.3 million over the previous two years? Yeah, he probably can be much worse. He comes out even further behind Fontenot.Roy Oswalt is proving hard to trade because teams can’t afford to pay his salary. Even the ones who’d consider it are loath to do that and give up worthwhile prospects as well, even though Oswalt is a pitcher with a good track record and strong scouting reports. If teams don’t think HE’S worth eating money + giving up talent, how do you think they feel about Silva?
Trade Dice-K for Ichiro, then the relationship with the Japanese would be better. Otherwise that was stupid comment.
Trade Dice-K for Ichiro, then the relationship with the Japanese would be better. Otherwise that was stupid comment.
If Paul Sullivan or Bruce Miles asks DLee today: Do you think you guys can put it together and make a playoff run? DLee will say YES, we can do it. We have the talent etc to make a run and get ourselves into the playoffs. So, yes, Lee and every guy on the team still thinks they can make a run. No one has quit but it is obvious from the outside that this team is flawed.The greater point is that DLee decides his future and he has already indicated he doesn’t want to be traded (when the Angels rumors started). He woudl likely only okay a deal to the west coast. Padres, Dodgers, A’s, D-Backs aren’t taking him. The Angels seem to want a guy they can use beyond this year and Napoli is having a mor eproductive year than Lee any way. The Giants have also indicated they want a player they can us ebeyond this year which is why we are seeing Corey Hart rumors with them. So, where does Lee go? What team wants him and what team woudl Lee agree to go to? I don’t see it.And I read at least 4 newspapers a day which is probably why I can make an intellegent well thought out point and you just throw stuff up and hope no one calls you on your lack of knowledge.
Christ, what an a_______.
I don’t know why I am even bothering but here goes:–my only point ever on D-Lee was that assuming his 10-and-5 rights makes a trade impossible (as you had stated) was silly. Obviously, he’s in a bad situation now, worse than he is used to being in, and that changes things for him, even from weeks ago when he said he “wasn’t interested in being traded.” I never discussed his value at all. You’re talking to yourself on that one. It’s odd too, because one of the key things you seem to be interested in is personally blaming me for the Angels’ reputed disinterest in Napoli and interest in a 1B. I don’t actually work for the Los Angaheims, so those ideas aren’t mine. (And weren’t mentioned in my posts anyway.)–If you had read Paul Sullivan or Bruce Miles *last week* you’d have read choice nuggets like Lou saying that with the way their season is, he expects the deadline to bring a shift to youth (code for: we suck and they’re going to break up the team) and Soriano noting that it was his job to try and find a way to believe they could win, but it’s getting to be a tougher task. They know they suck. They know trades are coming. You can misrepresent some of the meaningless rah-rah talk they give as part of their job if you want to be lawyerly or douchey about it, but not even the Cubs’ moms think they’re going to the playoffs this year. It’s ridiculous to pretend that wouldn’t affect who would or would not be willing to accept a trade.–I’d love some “knowledge” on why you think Darwin Barney is a potential everyday player. His stats (which I quoted, though that seems to have breezed right by you) don’t remotely bear that out. You even said he couldn’t be worse than Theriot. Except he is, MLEs wise, and will likely stay that way, according to ZIPS.–Again, a request for more knowledge please: with the Astros finding no offers at all for Oswalt because of his salary, let alone one that would absorb it all and send quality prospects, how is it you figure Silva is going to get that kind of return with a high salary an inferior track record, and scouting reports that continue to wonder if his turnaround is a fluke?–Finally, on the trading Soto idea… No, I’m not even going into that again.
From the Sun Times today:
Lilly said he wants to be part of that future but understands the way the business works.
”If I had my way, our club would get real hot and give the front office a good reason to be buyers more than sellers,” he said. ”At this point, that’s what we’re going to do, try to make that happen, try to give them a reason.”
Lee doesn’t like the idea of being sellers any better than Lilly.
”When you’re sellers, I guess that means you’re kind of throwing out that season,” he said. ”But we all know the business. You don’t play well, things happen. Hopefully, we can turn it around and not have to be in that situation.”
Sound like they gave up? NO. My point on Lee as 10/5 is he holds all the cards and it seems he doesn’t want to be traded. Maybe he will change his mind.
The Angels want to UPGRADE over Napoli. Right now Lee is no upgrade, so how does he fit? That’s the point.
I read what Lou said (and it was two days ago-not last week). But just because thety might want to move someone doesn;t mean they can (no trade clause, fat contract etc)
My point on Barney isn’t that he is a star or a star in the making but can you continue to play Theriot when he has gotten worse every year since 08 while his salary continues to climb? 2.6 million this year. Why not plug in a young guy and see what he can do/find out if he is ready to contribute for two months and then go into the off-season looking for help at 2B rather than taking someone else’s problem (Luis Castillo or continuing to run out the same medicore guys.) Barney will likely be at best a utility guy but I’d rather see him get his feet wet and ready for 2011 as a role player than keep seeing the three headed medicore Theriot/Fontenot/Baker. I looked at your Barney numbers. Theriot is 30 and has regressed. His OPs in 2008 was 746 in 2009 712 this year it stands at 627. So Barney could manage a 600 OPS for 2 months? Fontento and Baker aren’t the answer (as a platoon or otherwise).
Silva-You keep saying no one will take him. You are the same guy who likely said no one woudl take Todd Hundley…but someone did and The Cubs got two nice pieces for the 2003 team for him. Teams need pitching and Silva has pitched well. If you asked for little in return, paid the rest of this year and had the new club take on his 2011 salary, you couldn’t find a taker? Were you the guy crying just to release Milton Bradley and eat the money? Oswalt has a full no trade and two years left on his deal at over 16 million/season (with his 2012 option). That is a far bigger commitment to the one for Silva. Oswalt is far superior but teams a wary of taking his contract since it has so much money and years left. The Astors also want the moon for him. Besides, only one team will get Cliff Lee and one team Oswalt and one team Ted Lilly and there are a TON of teams looking for pitching. Plenty of GMs don’t o with the scouting reports. You think Ned Colletti was looking at the scouting report when he gave Jason Schmidt 3 years and $40 million? The report that said his arm was about to fall off?
Soto: You obviously don’t read closely-I didn’t say they must trade him. I said tehy should listen to offers. Soto isn’t a HoFer in his prome. He is a very good player. But he is 27 has had conditioning issues before and most catchers value run out as they head toward 30. This is his peak value. If you could get say an everyday 1B, a quality power arm for the bullpen and a nice 4th OF platton guy for him who all make the minumum or close to it in 2011,12,13 why wouldn’t you look at doing it?
And you live up to your handle by calling me an a_________. You, sir, are OUT OF LINE. I made no such personal attack on you. Only tried to have an intellegent discourse which is apparently not possible for you.
From the Sun Times today:
Lilly said he wants to be part of that future but understands the way the business works.
”If I had my way, our club would get real hot and give the front office a good reason to be buyers more than sellers,” he said. ”At this point, that’s what we’re going to do, try to make that happen, try to give them a reason.”
Lee doesn’t like the idea of being sellers any better than Lilly.
”When you’re sellers, I guess that means you’re kind of throwing out that season,” he said. ”But we all know the business. You don’t play well, things happen. Hopefully, we can turn it around and not have to be in that situation.”
Sound like they gave up? NO. My point on Lee as 10/5 is he holds all the cards and it seems he doesn’t want to be traded. Maybe he will change his mind.
The Angels want to UPGRADE over Napoli. Right now Lee is no upgrade, so how does he fit? That’s the point.
I read what Lou said (and it was two days ago-not last week). But just because thety might want to move someone doesn;t mean they can (no trade clause, fat contract etc)
My point on Barney isn’t that he is a star or a star in the making but can you continue to play Theriot when he has gotten worse every year since 08 while his salary continues to climb? 2.6 million this year. Why not plug in a young guy and see what he can do/find out if he is ready to contribute for two months and then go into the off-season looking for help at 2B rather than taking someone else’s problem (Luis Castillo or continuing to run out the same medicore guys.) Barney will likely be at best a utility guy but I’d rather see him get his feet wet and ready for 2011 as a role player than keep seeing the three headed medicore Theriot/Fontenot/Baker. I looked at your Barney numbers. Theriot is 30 and has regressed. His OPs in 2008 was 746 in 2009 712 this year it stands at 627. So Barney could manage a 600 OPS for 2 months? Fontento and Baker aren’t the answer (as a platoon or otherwise).
Silva-You keep saying no one will take him. You are the same guy who likely said no one woudl take Todd Hundley…but someone did and The Cubs got two nice pieces for the 2003 team for him. Teams need pitching and Silva has pitched well. If you asked for little in return, paid the rest of this year and had the new club take on his 2011 salary, you couldn’t find a taker? Were you the guy crying just to release Milton Bradley and eat the money? Oswalt has a full no trade and two years left on his deal at over 16 million/season (with his 2012 option). That is a far bigger commitment to the one for Silva. Oswalt is far superior but teams a wary of taking his contract since it has so much money and years left. The Astors also want the moon for him. Besides, only one team will get Cliff Lee and one team Oswalt and one team Ted Lilly and there are a TON of teams looking for pitching. Plenty of GMs don’t o with the scouting reports. You think Ned Colletti was looking at the scouting report when he gave Jason Schmidt 3 years and $40 million? The report that said his arm was about to fall off?
Soto: You obviously don’t read closely-I didn’t say they must trade him. I said tehy should listen to offers. Soto isn’t a HoFer in his prome. He is a very good player. But he is 27 has had conditioning issues before and most catchers value run out as they head toward 30. This is his peak value. If you could get say an everyday 1B, a quality power arm for the bullpen and a nice 4th OF platton guy for him who all make the minumum or close to it in 2011,12,13 why wouldn’t you look at doing it?
And you live up to your handle by calling me an a_________. You, sir, are OUT OF LINE. I made no such personal attack on you. Only tried to have an intellegent discourse which is apparently not possible for you.
I don’t know why I am even bothering but here goes:–my only point ever on D-Lee was that assuming his 10-and-5 rights makes a trade impossible (as you had stated) was silly. Obviously, he’s in a bad situation now, worse than he is used to being in, and that changes things for him, even from weeks ago when he said he “wasn’t interested in being traded.” I never discussed his value at all. You’re talking to yourself on that one. It’s odd too, because one of the key things you seem to be interested in is personally blaming me for the Angels’ reputed disinterest in Napoli and interest in a 1B. I don’t actually work for the Los Angaheims, so those ideas aren’t mine. (And weren’t mentioned in my posts anyway.)–If you had read Paul Sullivan or Bruce Miles *last week* you’d have read choice nuggets like Lou saying that with the way their season is, he expects the deadline to bring a shift to youth (code for: we suck and they’re going to break up the team) and Soriano noting that it was his job to try and find a way to believe they could win, but it’s getting to be a tougher task. They know they suck. They know trades are coming. You can misrepresent some of the meaningless rah-rah talk they give as part of their job if you want to be lawyerly or douchey about it, but not even the Cubs’ moms think they’re going to the playoffs this year. It’s ridiculous to pretend that wouldn’t affect who would or would not be willing to accept a trade.–I’d love some “knowledge” on why you think Darwin Barney is a potential everyday player. His stats (which I quoted, though that seems to have breezed right by you) don’t remotely bear that out. You even said he couldn’t be worse than Theriot. Except he is, MLEs wise, and will likely stay that way, according to ZIPS.–Again, a request for more knowledge please: with the Astros finding no offers at all for Oswalt because of his salary, let alone one that would absorb it all and send quality prospects, how is it you figure Silva is going to get that kind of return with a high salary an inferior track record, and scouting reports that continue to wonder if his turnaround is a fluke?–Finally, on the trading Soto idea… No, I’m not even going into that again.
Now we’re trying the wounded indignant approach? Chrissakes, kid. The fact that you were passive aggressive in your insults didn’t make them any less insulting. Think about that the next time you try to fictionalize me having three to ten years of idiotic opinions or respond to a post full of stats calling me a coward with no facts.I HAVE NEVER said the Angels want or should want Lee. I only, after you insisted his 10/5 rights made Lee untradeable, pointed them out as a perfect example of why that is ridiculous. Read my posts again. Sound out the words slowly. You’ll get there. If you find yourself replying to this post with anything about Lee’s trade value or Mike Napoli, I prescribe taking 100 aspirin with a bottle of vodka.I’m sticking by my guns:-10/5 rights do not make a player untradeable; even if we’re talking about a tenured veteran who likes his club and said in the early going he wasn’t interested in being traded (Hello? Fred McGriff on the phone for you.)-the Cubs know they suck, even though the unwritten rules of baseball compel them to pretend otherwise; many of them have, as tactfully as they could, implied as much; none of them still think they’re in it, they’re just too respectful of Chicago fans (and possibly afraid of the backlash) to say otherwise. You know this. Everyone knows this. You’re grasping at straws just trying to be right about something and you’re embarrassing yourself. -even a casual glance at stats shows Darwin Barney’s upside is less valuable than Theriot’s decline. I don’t say that as a way of saying they should keep Theriot, only to point out that, should he be dealt, Barney is a lousy choice to replace him. Why not plug Barney in and see what he can do? Because he is not good at baseball. As I have pointed out before his career high AAA OPS is less than Theriot’s 2010 fairly pessimistic rest-of-season ML ZIPS projection and much, much lower than Fontenot’s. -I never said Silva was untradeable, only pointed that your stated hope that someone would take his salary and send us talents in return is just silly. They may be able to trade him and eat money, but that isn’t what you said.-On Soto:”If you could get say an everyday 1B, a quality power arm for the bullpen and a nice 4th OF platton guy for him who all make the minumum or close to it in 2011,12,13 why wouldn’t you look at doing it?”No, actually. 1B are fairly easy to find. Colvin could play there, for one. Plus, with Adrian Gonzalez potentially available, along with various FA 1B, why bother? Bullpen arms are fungible and unreliable. And platoon OF? You think we need OF depth? The Cubs, we’re talking about here. The Cubs, who have multiple big contracts blocking Tyler Colvin. The Cubs, whose top positional prospect is also an OF? They could trade two OF and still be looking at a logjam for 2011. Even if they need someone for that role, they can pick through the increasingly cheap FA OF options.Even if I thought that was a great package for a catcher who has put up more 2010 batting value than any other catcher in baseball (check Fangraphs, his bat rates higher than Morneau or McCann), I’d still find it hard to trade a talent like that while he still had–what is it? three years of team control? Four? Particularly not when there isn’t a replacement in the pipeline or a worthwhile free agent coming up. The net result of the base case scenario would be getting young talent for our catcher, then having to trade young talent to get another one. How is that helpful? That’s just shuffling, not improving.