Yesterday Cliff Lee had another dominant outing and the Dodgers, Yankees, Cardinals and Phillies had scouts in Detroit to watch it. We'll keep track of all the day's Cliff Lee rumors right here, so check back later in the day to see if we have moved this post back to the top of the page with updates.
- The Twins aren't close to a deal for Lee, a team source tells LaVelle E. Neal III of the Star Tribune (via Twitter).
- The Twins have offered outfielder Aaron Hicks and catcher Wilson Ramos for Lee, a major league source told Jeff Fletcher of AOL Fanhouse (via Twitter).
- There are "interesting discussions" and "possibilities" for a Lee-to-Minnesota deal, tweets Jon Heyman of SI.
- The Reds have talked to the Mariners about Lee, according to John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer. While tampering rules prevent GM Walt Jocketty from commenting on Lee in particular, Fay believes that his words infer that the 2008 AL Cy Young winner would be a player of interest.
“I will say this: We’re looking at any way we can to improve the club,” said the GM. “To improve the club, it would have to be a pretty significant player to do that. We have a lot of good things going. We don’t want to disrupt that.”
Fay writes that it will take more than Yonder Alonso, a trade candidate mentioned by ESPN's Buster Olney over the weekend, to land Lee. Edinson Volquez's performance upon his return will also have an impact on the Reds' interest in making a deal.
- The Rangers, Twins, Yankees and Mets are among the teams having the most active conversations with the Mariners about Lee, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. The Dodgers have also discussed the left-hander with the Mariners.
- The Tigers, Phillies and Cardinals have been scouting Lee, but those teams are not pursuing him as aggressively.
- Some of Morosi's sources believe the Mariners would rather obtain hitters than pitchers, while others don't believe position matters to GM Jack Zduriencik. There is consensus that the Mariners prefer prospects who are close to contributing in the major leagues.
Tigers need hitting more than pitching.
In my opinion, the only position that a trade would greatly help out is SS. And if they traded for Cliff Lee and not a bat, I would like that move better personally.
Having Verlander, Lee, and Scherzer (don’t hate, since he came back from the minors he has a 2.62 ERA, and 11.28 K/9 in 44.2 innings and 7 starts) in the same rotation would definitely be a force in the postseason, something Dombrowski should consider.
Yunel Escobar or Stephen Drew would be nice
They need both.
Just send him to Queens already. Mets need all the wins they can get!
Yonder Alonso – Juan Francisco – Matt Maloney and Sam Lecure
Alonso is blocked by Votto, Juan is a power bat, Maloney a fly ball pitcher perfect for that park, and Lecure look great there except for one mistake pitch to Ichiro.
Good enough?
Kemp for Lee
No.
Ugh. I don’t know if you are a Dodger fan (the not smart kind) or a Mariners fan (just wants more than he should get), but I don’t like what you said here.
It doesn’t make sense for a contender to trade on of their best players away, even if they’re getting a slightly better playing in return. The idea of deadline trades is to exchange future success for present success.
I think the bidding is between the Yankees and Twins personally. The Mets have shown that they have problems team wide not just in the starting pitching department (K-Rod, bullpen, and offensive under-performances). And also I’m pretty sure the Mariners aren’t impressed whatsoever with what the Mets have to offer in prospects packages. The Twins have Wilson Ramos, who is a great catcher with an average bat and other great young players to offer. The Yankees have several big bats such as Montero, Laird, Nunez and Romine to dangle. I personally would hold on to Montero over Romine.
My prediction : He goes to the Twins who have an absolute need for a TRUE ace. His start against the Tigers was dominant and with the AL Central race close again this year the need to win all the games they can against the Tigers.
As a Yankee fan I would LOVE to have Cliff this year but the Mariners GM has his sights set on Jesus Montero, our hitting prodigy with a Miguel Cabrera/Mike Piazza-esque bat. And no GM in the world would trade such a prospect for 2 months of a pitcher.
Ramos is getting overhyped as the trading deadline nears. He isn’t that good. He’s no Carlos Santana or anything. He’s not any sort of impact player offensively or defensively. At least right now he doesn’t look like it. He has a good arm but his overall defense is still up in the air. His bat is nothing special. Maybe average if he turns out like he’s supposed to.Much to similar to Adam Moore to be the centerpiece in a Lee trade. As a Mariner fan I would rather the M’s deal with Mets over Minnesota. At least the Mets have some really interesting players in guys like Mejia, Flores and Havens. IMO, Minnesota’s guys have less upside.
Ramos is currently hitting .208. No Lee for the Twinkies.
I don’t agree with your logic that the mariners arent impressed with mets propspects..I do however believe that the mets tend to place very high value on their prospects moreso than they have in the past, and are therefore extremely hesitant to deal the players the mariners may be looking for…I have a feeling they are trying to centerpiece their deal over someone like fernando martinez with three to four complementary mid level prospects or maybe some young high reward guys. I think while his value is down they are probably trying to push the mariners based on his age for his level, his former status as an elite prospect and the fact he is healthy now and when healthy has generally produced while being young for his level (his bat is starting to heat up at AAA after returning from DL)
“I do however believe that the mets tend to place very high value on their prospects moreso than they have in the past”
u mean like the mariners did with the prospects they gave up for lee
lol
The Mets have Mejia, Tejada, Flores, Martinez, Thole (whose a great catcher producing in the bigs)
So, I disagree. Mets have some great prospects available.
yeah i agree and think the mariners are generally interested in many of those guys…i dont think the mets are too willing to get rid of many of them though.
I think it’s safe to say, at this point, that F-Mart isn’t a prospect. He’s pretty fringe at this point.
That’s a riot. I take it you don’t realize that Baseball Prospectus ranked the Mets farm 9 places higher than the Yankees.
Typical Yankee fan.
Speaking as a RS fan, I bet you they are really crushed having a farm system ranked nine places lower.
They must look at their team and shake their heads when they think of the prospects they graduated in the last couple of years with Hughes, Gardner, Pena, Joba, Robertson, and whomever else they helped win the World Series last year.
While the mets have graduated what in the last few years (not this year given the rankings at the start of the year?)
I do remember when yankees fans were happy they outranked the Red Sox a few years ago, as if RS fans were angry that Buchholz, Lester, Ellsbury, Pedroia has come up and helped us win a World Series.
Farm systems go on cycles, graduate a few and it takes a year or two for the next wave to come along.
Talk to me again in 2-3 years when that actually matters.
I realize that everyone gets hyped about his team’s prospects, but I think the hype around Montero is a little high. He is probably more in the mold of Victor Martinez: strong bat (I think Montero’s will be better) with below average defense. I would love to see the Rays run all over Montero, just like they do on V-Mart.
Wilson Ramos is also over-hyped, but he is a pretty good lock to be above average defensively. I recall the idea that for prospects “your bat gets you to the show, but your defense keeps you there.”
I do not believe a team other than the Yankees or the Mets have a real shot at signing Lee prior to him becoming a free agent. Plus i live in Cleveland and from what I have heard in the past that Lee wants a CC type contract same money and the same years.
The Indians made a effort to extend him 3 to 4 years with a couple of club options at around 15 to 16 per year and he turned it down thats why the Indians dealt him to begin with.
Ramos, Slowey, and Neshek
Why would Seattle want a weak-hitting catcher, a #5 starter, and an oft-inured middle reliever? I don’t think so.
.288/.346/.434 with 13 HRs in 224 ABs in 2009 is weak hitting? He’s ranked 58 by BA and 65 by Baseball Prospectus. I’m sure Seattle would love that with their lack of catching talent. Slowey is 26 years old and has shown some promise, he could possibly be a 3 or a 4 starter in the near future. Neshek has posted good stats in the past, could use a change of scenery though.If I was Minnesota, that’s what I would start with. If they don’t want that then you work in order with these prospects: Danny Valencia, Deolis Guerra, Miguel Sano, Kyle Gibson, and Aaron Hicks.
There is 0 chance of Gibson going anywhere. He would’ve been just behind Strasburg without the stress fracture and has since been pitching very good. People say he’s got a chance to possibly be a #1, but more likely a high-end #2 pitcher. That would never be traded for 2 months of pitching. I think we have to consider going Ramos/Revere/Another prospect…and see what they say and go from there.
Someone like Benson as the 3rd prospect.
and as far as montero from yanks goes i understand that the guy put together a really good 2009, but as far as i’ve seen and heard, hasnt he struggled this year with the bat, and isnt his value greatly diminished by his ability to stay at catcher (which as i understand it isnt very likely)…i understand he’s still a good young prospect but it just seems like his value is down for the mariners to not want many more additional pieces
It’s his first year in Triple A, and he’s coming off the freakish hand injury he suffered last year. He’s only 20. Give him time.His value as a catcher is already gone. He has like 12 past balls already. He’s an outfielder/dh in the future. He hit .289 in June with 9 doubles and 3 Home Runs, so he has shown signs of life. Give him time. He’s also hitting .286 with runners in scoring position, so it’s not like he’s a zombie up there when it matters the most.
If Kemp is mentioned, Gutierrez & a Lee extension had better be on the table
That is a dumb thing to say. I think the Mariners would hesitate on a Kemp for Gutierrez trade simpliciter.
“If Kemp is mentioned, Gutierrez & a Lee extension had better be on the table”
haha.. Pass on that. Kemp isn’t even a CFer anymore. By far the worst defensive CFer in baseball according to UZR and UZR/150. And its not close.
Let’s wait until season’s end to make any determination on that.
Kemp for Gutierrez and Lee? Come on man!
If Zs wantin’ near ready prospects, he might be waitin’ a while. If he can’t get him (which seems highly possibly at this point), his only other choices are collect two draft picks or ponying up the $$$$.
Come on Walt get it done.
I am so tired of people saying Lee is just a two month rental. You are going to get a sandwich pick between the 1st and second round and in all likely hood a first(unless and awful team signs lee or Jayson Werth or Carl Crawford have a great finish while Lee goes in the tank and the same team signs both players). Not even mentioning that you get Cliff Lee for 2 to 3 months. No one is pitching better then Lee and he is proven in the playoffs. Would you trade top prospects for a shot at the World Series? The Mets, Rangers, Dodgers, Reds and Twins have a very slim chance without Lee and a good one with him. The Yankees could wrap it up right now if they can get Lee. Not sure if Philly could get over the embassment of getting nothing for Lee then having to give up Dominic Brown to get him back.
He’s still a rental. Draft picks or not.
I bet a lot of the people crying “rental” would say the same crap if Lee were under control for 2011, too. No enough people are willing to give up the illusion of a perfect tomorrow for a shot at victory. Multi-year security/longterm “potential” is disproportionately preferable to instant gratification.
Really, who’s to say Texas will have a better shot at winning the WS in the next ten years with their prospects o’ plenty than they will right now with Lee heading their rotation? We can project all we like, but reality is staring that team in the face. The Reds are in a similar situation. Maybe the Mets and Twins, too.
If he were under control past 2010, he wouldn’t be a rental would he?
he could be viewed as a rental, yes.
I don’t know where he’ll end up, but I can’t believe the amount of talent some people are willing to give up for a rental. He’s going to the Bronx in December, so unless you’re the Yankees, you are losing him in addition to your premium prospects.
Pass.
This Mets fan will take Oswalt.
My thoughts exactly … Reds will pass to
Looks like Twins & Seattle are working on a deal involving Lee for Wilson Ramos plus other(s) according to MLB.com
Twins according to M-L-B TV … Lee for Ramos & others
I’m shaking my head at some of these trade proposals.
How about Cliff Lee to the Tigers for Cale Iorg, Alfredo Figaro, and Robinzon Diaz? Get it done, Dombrowski!
Only way Minnesota gets Lee is if it’s Ramos +3. Baker/Slowey + Ramos + mid level prospect. Seattle might as well trade him to Texas and make it a twin killing (they cant sign him long term and Seattle gets to take some texas prospects).
Smoak, Salta, and a mid level prospect for Lee would be good enough. I dont get why people think Seattle will get so little back. Think CC Sabathia but even better because he’s been the same if not better than CC that year and Cleveland got their No. 1, 4, and 8 prospects. Seattle wants a ML hitter and Smoak is that guy, Salta can be the catcher and the prospect doesnt matter
Salty can’t even play catcher right now. I think if the trade is the Twins, it’s Ramos, Gibson, and Benson.
Gibson will not be in a package, he’s talked about as a future high-end #2 pitcher coming off the stress fracture that was the only reason he fell in the Strasburg draft. I could see a Ramos/Revere/Benson deal, but there is no way they include Kyle Gibson.
mlbtraderumors.com/kyle-gibson/
As a reds fan, if there is anyway that the reds could trade alonso for Oswalt I’d think we would rather take Oswalt than Lee considering what he has done at GABP against the Reds in his career. (Just saying)
Hicks and Ramos?? Yes please.
Yeah, that’s a great deal for the Mariners.
Wouldn’t be a bad deal for the M’s. Two top 100 prospects? I’d ask for a pitcher too just to see how much I could get for 2 and a half months of Lee. Haha
If the deal goes down as Hicks and Ramos, I’ll be glad the Mets passed. Way too much.
Cincinnati is the type of town where if we win a title, losing the prospects for Lee would be made up for by allowing us to increase payroll.
for the past ten years or so cincinnati has relied on their “prospects” for hope that one day they will finally be good. Waiting on prospects has got this team no where. Not until they got rolen, gomes, cabrera, hernandez did they start competing. this team with out those guys is no where. sure votto phillips bruce stubbs are a huge part of this team. but the older guys taught them what it took to win consistently and just look at last year before and after they got rolen to see what veteran leadership and a guy who knows how to win can do for a team. you cannot win without proven winners. show me the last team to win with no guys who had been there before. cliff lee is the guy who makes this good team an elite team and you must capitalize on your opportunities because they come few and far between. give up anyone who is not contributing or will contribute THIS YEAR and get lee
Ummm…hello? If the Reds trade decent prospects for him and then lose him to Free Agency at the end of the year, they get TWO first round picks in the draft. It’s a win-win for ANY team really using him as a rental for the drive to the post season.
For the Reds, though, when he comes in and propels this team to a winning season and into the playoffs, payroll will increase…plus they get the two first round draft picks. The move makes total sense for the Reds, especially if Harang goes on the DL with back problems he’s having.
Neither Hicks or Ramos are exactly tearing it up in the minors. Is this the best the Twins have to offer? Well JackZ is quite a good judge of talent. So I will put my faith in him to make the best deal.
With minor leaguers you really can’t base much off of the stats they put up, sure it’s nice when they put up great numbers, but it doesn’t necessarily tell you much about their potential and ability. In Hicks case, his numbers don’t look that good, but considering that he’s only got about 100 games under his belt since high school, he’s looking pretty good.
Hicks was listed as Minnesota’s #1 prospect by BA and Fangraphs at the beginning of the season for good reason.
Also considering that in Keith Law’s mid-season prospect rankings Hicks ranked 9th overall out of players still in the minors, that’s pretty darn good.
Worst case scenario with 2 prospects of this quality in the deal and the potential for another player or 2, this raises the playing field for any other team that is interested
Now that it could be Hicks, I don’t want Lee. I think that would be overpayment. I want the guy, but I don’t want to overpay. Plus, I’m not one of those people who ever thought getting Lee would put us over the top. We’re still inconsistent.
He’d be a great addition and an extreme upgrade, but not worth it for Ramos + Hicks. It’s not like we’re guaranteed a WS appearance after that trade and Lee will leave once the offseason hits.
The chance to acquire the best pitcher in the world with a tiny salary to push your team over the top does not happen every year. This is a opportunity that may not come up for the next five years. You have a good team… why not make it a great team? Take a shot! Hick is no guarantee, and he’s three+ years away. You can go get another outfield prospect in the next three years. Draft one with one of the extra picks.
I don’t think it pushes the team over the top, that’s the problem. If it did, I wouldn’t worry about it that much. Getting Cliff Lee does not guarantee a series win in the playoffs. It doesn’t guarantee a WS appearance. Obviously having him will increase the “chance” but that’s about it. I don’t feel like we are any more likely to win the WS with him than we are without him.
The Twins will likely be down a few outfielders (Cuddyer & Kubel) in the near future and Hicks seems to be the most prized out of all of them.
The chance to have a prospect like Hicks doesn’t come along every year either. You say “draft another outfield prospect with one of the picks,” like he’s just instantly replaceable. There’s obviously a reason Hicks is as highly regarded as he is. He’s an elite prospect who’s got the type of ceiling to be a cornerstone player for a team.
Extra draft picks are nice, but how often do first rounders really pan out? Trevor Plouffe, Matt Moses, Glen Perkins, etc. etc.
I’m all for acquiring Lee, but they should work something out in order to keep Hicks in the Twins organization.
Exactly, Hicks is way too important. The draft picks are a shot in the dark, even if they say the draft is deeper next year. And like other people have said, we could end up with a sandwich pick and a second rounder depending on if the team that signs him already has a higher rated type A.
Hicks is worth more than that to the Twins organization, especially since by the time he’ll be ready, or sooner, the Twins are going to need outfielders.
We have an idea about how Hicks will turn out and he’s getting professional experience. We know nothing about these possible draft picks and can get screwed multiple ways with that.
this month will determine if tampa is selling/buying….if tampa is buying, i see them going all out for a win this year…if tampa is selling, then guys like pena/crawford could be on the market…
If Jack Z trades Lee for these two scrubs (Ramos, Hicks) he won’t be any different than the GMs who traded CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee (1st & 2nd time) for trash. He said he wanted impact players with impact bats.
Yeah, trading Lee as a rental for two Top 50 MLB prospects would be a real big loss for Jack Z. (Sarcasm)
Hicks and Ramos would be way overpaying for the Twins… if that deal was actually on the table, Zduriencik should take it now, and Twins fans should be upset. Hicks should be off limits. Completely.
Relax everyone.. Someones gonna blink and give up a Smoak/Montero type player. If the Twins set the bar at Hicks/Ramos someone will beat it. Its gonna happen really quick too, we’ll probably hear very little, if any chatter about the pending trade and then boom, it’ll be outta nowhere and some team will have given up a nice haul.
As long as it isn’t the Reds I’ll be happy
your right. the reds getting a cy young caliber pitcher that could lead them to the world series would be disastrous for the team. the goal of baseball is to win the world series not have the most number of good prospects
Could happen … but it is just as likely that …
1. He could disrupt the chemistry of the team … or
2. We still miss the playoffs & or lose in the first round & he walks away at the end of the season & the two picks you get never come close to the potential of the 3 pretty darn good prospects you had & have nothing to show for it … AND …
3. The 3 top prospects could turn out to be a compliment to your already strong team core that leads to a long term run of success with multiple playoff appearances …
If I have to chose … I’ll run with what I’ve got. As I have said all along … this is just my opinion basing it purely on the fact that we are a small market team and can’t afford to take risks like the Phills, Red Sox, Yanks etc can … if you disagree … that is your prerogative … but it doesn’t make either of us right or wrong.
just answer this one question for me gunner. what is easier to get a good young prospect or a cy young pitcher
I’ll answer you that when you can convince me that the Cy Young pitcher is going to stick around for more then 2 months … with the type of players being mentioned being needed to get Lee, its more then I am willing to pay for two months of Lee & two draft picks that may never make it past AA
My sources in the Reds’ front office tell me they are preparing a contract extension this offseason for Joey Votto and it will be for 8 years.
would be great for everyone and they need to get that done
your right he could leave and those prospects could add to this team or the reds could add payroll because of they made it deep into the playoffs and fans begin to come to the games again and they resign him and those prospects could add nothing and end up flaming out like a lot of prospects do. why not trade unproven players who will not contribute to winning this year for a proven winner who could push this team over the top. cliff lee will not ruin the chemistry i guarantee that. and he gives them the chance to make it farther into the playoffs. thats all you ask for is a chance. and when that chance comes you have to make the most of it.
Look dude … you can twist it any way you want … but you are NEVER going to change my mind … so go argue with someone else if you don’t agree with me
I would give up Alonso and a lesser player for 3 months of Lee, but not Alonso and Travis Wood as I’ve been hearing. Wood is a younger and cheaper version of Cliff Lee, a future Cliff Lee if you will or a left-handed Mike Leake, either way waaaayyy too much for only 3 months of Lee. Now, Alonso with say a Matt Maloney or maybe even a Todd Frazier or Chris Valaika and I would do that deal.
I’d give Alonso & Valaika up … but with the names that other teams are rumored to be offering … we’re looking at an Alonso/Heisey/Wood + kind of offer needed to get him. As I have said over and over to these guys who think they can send Alonso and two scrubs prospects … you aren’t going to sniff a chance at Lee for that … but I’ll let those arm chair GMs continue to dream