1:53pm: The deal is done, tweets Rosenthal. Piecing this together, it appears the Astros send Oswalt and $11MM to the Phillies for Happ, Gose, and Villar, with the Phils potentially adding $1MM to Oswalt's buyout but not exercising his option.
A few tweets from Crasnick: the Cardinals and Padres made late runs at Oswalt today.
1:44pm: Rosenthal tweets that Oswalt's option is actually a mutual one. With the trade, his buyout will increase from $1MM to $2MM if the Phillies pick up the option and he declines, and remain at $2MM "if he simply opts out on his own." Rosenthal adds that the third player in the deal will be shortstop prospect Jonathan Villar. Some sources spell it "Villan," including the Baseball America Handbook.
1:34pm: Oswalt has accepted the deal, tweets Matt Gelb of the Philadelphia Inquirer.
12:51pm: Gose and Happ are definitely in the deal, tweets CSN Philly's Jim Salisbury.
12:12pm: Oswalt plans to OK the deal, but it's not official yet, reports Stark. He adds that the Astros will be sending $11MM. Rosenthal tweets that Oswalt's 2012 option will not be exercised; he'll be compensated some other way. ESPN's Amy K. Nelson tweets that Oswalt will get $1MM added by the Phillies to the buyout of his '12 option. She adds that the details are being worked out now regarding Oswalt retaining his no-trade clause.
ESPN's Jerry Crasnick tweets of a rumor that speedy outfield prospect Anthony Gose may be in the deal. AOL FanHouse's Ed Price tweets that he's hearing Gose and Worley could be in the swap.
10:43am: Rosenthal tweets that he hears Singleton is not in the deal.
10:17am: The identities of the other two players going to Houston remain unknown, but ESPN's Jayson Stark says the Astros have pushed hard for minor league first baseman Jonathan Singleton.
9:04am: The Astros will receive three players for Oswalt, tweets Rosenthal, while also paying a "very significant" part of his salary. Happ will be one of the three. Astros owner Drayton McLane has been negotiating directly with Phillies president David Montgomery, reports CBS' Danny Knobler.
7:37am: SI's Jon Heyman hears the Astros and Phillies were discussing Happ, righty Vance Worley, and two younger pitchers (Twitter link). Worley, a 22-year-old righty, spent most of 2010 at Double A, posting a 3.20 ERA, 6.6 K/9, and 2.9 BB/9. Baseball America ranked him 18th among Phillies prospects heading into the season, predicting a future as a back-end starter or middle reliever.
1:08am: The Astros and Phillies have reached an agreement on a Roy Oswalt trade, reports Mark Berman of FOX 26 in Houston. Berman says the Astros are now waiting for Oswalt's approval, having hammered out the players and money with the Phils. Wednesday morning, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports had reported that the players were "pretty much agreed on." Lefty J.A. Happ has been a rumored part of the deal for a while now.
Oswalt's contract has $5.46MM left from his $15MM salary this year, $16MM in 2011, and a 2012 option for $16MM with a $2MM buyout. It remains to be seen how the Astros and Phillies settled the financials and whether the Phils will pick up Oswalt's option, though SI's Jon Heyman hears that the Astros are sending a lot of money to the Phillies (Twitter link).
Not a shocker here, and the Phils continue to add 2011 payroll they can’t afford
I refuse to believe that they “cant afford it.” I think they have a self imposed cap. Houston would probably have to send in the neighborhood of $6 million. Deal might include JA Happ, Anthony Gose, Trevor May/Jarred Cosart, and Matthew Rizzotti/Jonathon Singleton. Even though if they include Singleton then that would probably mean May/Cosart are out of the deal.
And if this deal happens, Kyle Kendrick would likely become a sacrificial lamb and be optioned to AAA. Even though he should be a long man and Danys Baez should be optioned to hell.
Their payroll is going to be tremendous.
according to Cots, they have ~$134 mil in commitments already for 2011 (don’t know if they include arb estimates or not), so this puts them in the 150 range easily. Philly has a window and it’s nice to see an ownership shell out some money to make a run (minus the C. Lee deal).
This is where Ruben Amaros genius idea to give Blanton a 2 year $17 million dollar tender, sign a 37 year old outfielder to a 3 year $33 million dollar deal, sign Danys Baez to a $5.25 million dollar deal, and to sign Polanco (who was drawing no interest on the market) to a $18 million dollar deal, comes into play… Not mention had he just kept Cliff Lee, they would have a cheaper pitcher and not be giving up more prospects to acquire an expensive one.
Starting pitching has been the least of their worries, they need a closer.
How can you take up an argument with Frank Costanza and expect to win?
I AM THE SMARTEST PERSON ON THE PLANET.
Not to mention giving the most overrated player in baseball $25 million per year!!!!
Yeah, he’s really struggling right now.
No amount of money one could pay to Ryan Howard would be overpaying as much as giving any money to Danys Baez is.
Not to mention giving the most overrated player in baseball $25 million per year!!!!
Polly Polanco turned down a 14 or 15 Mill $ offer from the Tigers… A 2 x gold glove AL 2nd basemen w a lifetime .300 avg, and pundits state is a top contact hitter in MLB, def worth the $5 mill and we were going to pay Felice $3.5 Mill, and he was a great fielder but cldnt hit water if he fell outta a boat, so only prob I had was dealing lee and no bullpen help when Matt Capps clda been signed for less then Baez and has 25 NL Saves this year, and is only 26….
The Phillies bought their 1980 championship. Might as well buy another.
All HATERS bring it.. as far as MLB Goes we have made the 3 most signifigant TRADES IN MLB in past 18 MONTHS ( 4 ACTUALLY ) Lee last year ( then dealing this year ) HALLADAY TO Phillies, NOW OSWALT TO PHILA….
As a longtime full season tix holder i cannot be happier…. This makes amends in my opinionion for LEE DEBACLE
They let Werth walk and they should be fine…they have Dominic Brown anyway, its actually good that Victorino got injured so that they can get a preview of how Brown can hit major league pitching
Man, they would be so left handed then. Youre talking about having Utley, Howard, Ibanez, and Brown in a row. Left handed pitching would have a field day.
Now now, you’re -obviously- getting Bautista too.
This is why Pat Gillick is a god. He knew how to build scouting systems. No matter how many prospects you guys trade away, you’ll always seem to have more.
eh….dom brown has a higher batting avg. vs lefties than righties…
eh….dom brown has a higher batting avg. vs lefties than righties…
they also lose 8 million dollars worth of jamie moyer as well.
Thats big, they have about $20 million coming off the books, but a lot of players are due raises. With Contreras and Durbin on 1 year deals, and Oswalt acquisition leaves them no money to upgrade the bullpen and bench.
Not to worry on those fronts. They can replace them with some combination of Bastardo, Worley and Mathieson and not take a step backward.
I like Durbin, I hope they keep him. He struggled a bit last year but is pitching very consistently this year and had a solid 2008 also. I think the Phillies have been a bit foolish with some of their bullpen moves… they let Condrey go after he had a very good year in 2009, let Eyre retire (which he likely wouldn’t have if they had made him a substantial offer), and replaced them with Contreras, who has been OK but no dramatic improvement, and Baez, who seems to think his out pitch is a belt high fastball. Since Durbin has generally been doing his job, I think it would be in their best interest to resign him.
Not to worry on those fronts. They can replace them with some combination of Bastardo, Worley and Mathieson and not take a step backward.
It is absolutely a self imposed cap. The Phillies can afford this, they just don’t want to.
I also think that they have the mindset that 3 years (2 plus option) of Oswalt at 16mil is greater than 1 year of Cliff at 9 mil (assuming they don’t want to/can’t pay him 20-25 mil after that). I know that Cliff is way better than Oswalt, but given the money that Cliff will most certainly demand after this year, maybe they think that 2 or three years of Oswalt is better value to them for the money. I’m not saying that I agree with that, but I can see how they would think that.
It is absolutely a self imposed cap. The Phillies can afford this, they just don’t want to.
I also think that they have the mindset that 3 years (2 plus option) of Oswalt at 16mil is greater than 1 year of Cliff at 9 mil (assuming they don’t want to/can’t pay him 20-25 mil after that). I know that Cliff is way better than Oswalt, but given the money that Cliff will most certainly demand after this year, maybe they think that 2 or three years of Oswalt is better value to them for the money. I’m not saying that I agree with that, but I can see how they would think that.
They canafford it,its a SELF IMPOSED TEAM CAP…One of the owners could BUY THE STEINBRENNERS 5X OVER, read it for yourself, his name is John Middleton and after the Phillies lost game 6 of 2009 WS in NY, he whispered to Ryan Howard ” I WANT MY EFFIN TROPHY BACK” and stated furthermore “He wld do just about anything next season”.. Here is link on the guy…phillymag.com/articles/the_phantom_five/
Hearing that he wasnt happy w Lee trade and seeing it weakened the team, the owners realize its wiser to spend $1 to make $5 in return then to spend .50 cents and only make a $1 in return…
Furthermore they have sold out 90 consecutive home games…
And they couldn’t afford Lee’s cheap contract?
It should be interesting to see what happens. I am assuming Phils have a plan B if Oswalt rejects the trade though I don’t think he will.
enough about lee, they traded .5 years of lee (they wouldnt get oswalt if they had lee), some high a-ball prospects, and j.a happ… for 2.5? years of oswalt and some higher level prospects.
You also have to look at the return they got for Lee.
I dont know that that is a fair assessment. They may not have been top rated prospects, but the truth is that we wont know how the deal went until those players hit the big leagues (if they do at all) considering that they are all 20 year old kids.
as of right now, and this holds true for probably close to 3 years… the return they got for lee doesnt matter, they could win another world series in those 3 years.
as of right now, and this holds true for probably close to 3 years… the return they got for lee doesnt matter, they could win another world series in those 3 years.
It wasn’t about this year with Lee. It was about the subsequent years. The conventional wisdom is that Lee’s demands would have started at $20 million per for 4-5 years. While it may seem odd, The Phillies have ALWAYS been a club that prefers to keep its pitchers on 3-year deals. They’ve been gun-shy about long-term deals for pitchers since they signed Ken Howell to a big contract in the ’80s and he suffered injury after injury.
It wasn’t about this year with Lee. It was about the subsequent years. The conventional wisdom is that Lee’s demands would have started at $20 million per for 4-5 years. While it may seem odd, The Phillies have ALWAYS been a club that prefers to keep its pitchers on 3-year deals. They’ve been gun-shy about long-term deals for pitchers since they signed Ken Howell to a big contract in the ’80s and he suffered injury after injury.
Ed Wade personally scouted the Phillies’ low A club earlier this month and the Astros are rumored to be very high on Singleton, so I’m thinking he might be the other centerpiece besides Happ.
Everybody is high on Singleton. He is a potential franchise first baseman. He is about 2 years from the bigs too.
Which makes Singleton one of the best trade chips for the Phillies, since they’ve committed so heavily to Howard.
Well, I know all that, I’m just saying that the Astros particularly were supposed to be focused on him. Guess we’ll find out soon enough whether they got him.
Hearing instructors compare him to Manny Ramirez might do it.
I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in Ed Wade’s scouting ability. One has to just look at the miserable Astros farm system over the last few years and see how well of a job he has done with scouting overall.
On Oswalt.. If they can afford to pick him up, should really give them a NYY/Boston, TB equivalent rotation in the NL and might be what they are thinking.. Going 3 deep and trying run prevention, which is kind of strange with that extremely potent offense that they have when healthy. They actualy now match up pretty well with the NYY front *3* wise **IF** can get health and fix that BP, but as they say.. Got to get the WS 1st.
Ed Wade built the current Phillies. Rollins, Utley, Hamels, Howard, Madson, Pat Burrell… all his doing.
Any average joe with a Baseball America and a bit of luck could’ve put those guys together.
Rollins was a high 2nd rounder, Utley 15th overall, Hamels a high 1st rounder who had slipped because of a broken arm, Burrell was drafted 1st overall (and hasn’t been in Philadelphia for some time).
Any average joe with a Baseball America and a bit of luck could’ve put those guys together.
Rollins was a high 2nd rounder, Utley 15th overall, Hamels a high 1st rounder who had slipped because of a broken arm, Burrell was drafted 1st overall (and hasn’t been in Philadelphia for some time).
Mike Arbuckle built those who came from the farm system.
Um, the farm system was a mess because of the previous GM, Tim Purpura, not Wade. Ed Wade brought back a focus on prospects and the farm and the Astros’ system has improved every year since he got here in 2007.
It went from being by far the worst system in the minors in 2008 to what’s now probably around the 20th best, and depending on the return in this trade, could be in the top 15 or better at the end of the year.
Perhaps not quite as bad, but the Tejada deal took away from this system and who knows how the expensive LT deals given to Lee, Berkman and oswalt affected drafting/bonuses other than the usual high top 20 pick of Houston’s of late.
I just dislike seeing any team not go out and scout/draft/sign players in mid-lower rounds that are passed up due to signability reasons and teams that needed a farm system replenished as badly as Houstons did (do), especially after giving away the cream in that Tejada fiasco had all the reason in the world to do so.
Not trying to knock the team into the ground, just the way they went about drafting the same old way it seemed for a few years.
Categorically:
The Astros did not give up anything of particular value for Tejada (check up on the status of the pieces they traded if you don’t believe me).
Ed Wade did not give Oswalt, Berkman, or Lee their current contracts. That was done by the previous general manager. Those three players were already under contract when Wade was given the job.
They have been drafting much, much better since Wade arrived and hired scouting director Bobby Heck, who is well-respected by analysts, scouts, and cross-checkers.
Perhaps not quite as bad, but the Tejada deal took away from this system and who knows how the expensive LT deals given to Lee, Berkman and oswalt affected drafting/bonuses other than the usual high top 20 pick of Houston’s of late.
I just dislike seeing any team not go out and scout/draft/sign players in mid-lower rounds that are passed up due to signability reasons and teams that needed a farm system replenished as badly as Houstons did (do), especially after giving away the cream in that Tejada fiasco had all the reason in the world to do so.
Not trying to knock the team into the ground, just the way they went about drafting the same old way it seemed for a few years.
Phillies staff > Every other staff.
Oh so the Phillies pitching is better than the Cardinals, Giants, and Padres? Yeah right…Keep dreaming.
Johnny did say “every other staff”, so you would have to include the AL:
Rays
Red sox
Yankees(and I’m a red sox fan)
Rangers
Angels…
I’d take Haren/Weaver over Halladay/Oswalt
You’re kidding… right?
If Haren were to rebound I would think that is a fair proposal. Plus Haren and Weaver are younger and are more cost-controlled than Oswalt and Halladay.
If were talking talent, then its not even close. Halladay/Oswalt/Hamels in comparison to Weaver/Haren/Santana or Piniero.
Dont get me wrong, I love Weaver, but he is not Halladay or Oswalt. And I seem to be the only one who thinks Haren is overrated.
You’re right, Weaver is not Oswalt. He’s better and younger than Oswalt. Just because his name isn’t plastered all over ESPN 24/7 and he isn’t linked to an East Coast team doesn’t mean he isn’t ridiculously good. But I’m not sure I can reason with someone who thinks Dan Haren is overrated…
You’re right, Weaver is not Oswalt. He’s better and younger than Oswalt. Just because his name isn’t plastered all over ESPN 24/7 and he isn’t linked to an East Coast team doesn’t mean he isn’t ridiculously good. But I’m not sure I can reason with someone who thinks Dan Haren is overrated…
Like Oswalt is plastered over ESPN all the time. This summer was the most face time he’s ever received, and most of it doesn’t at all reflect the kind of guy or pitcher he is. If you think Weaver or Haren is EVEN CLOSE to the caliber of pitcher Roy Oswalt is, you’re delusional.
Both of them are better than Oswalt but Halladay’s one of the top 2 or 3 pitchers in baseball.
162 Game Averages:
Oswalt: 16-9 3.24 ERA 221 IP 182 K 0.8 HR/9 2.1 BB/9 7.4 K/9 Haren: 14-11 3.71 ERA 219 IP 189 K 1.1 HR/9 2.0 BB/9 7.8 K/9 Weaver: 15-9 3.63 ERA 209 IP 181 K 1.0 HR/9 2.5 BB/9 7.8 K/9 Halladay: 17-9 3.34 ERA 234 IP 174 K 0.8 HR/9 1/9 BB/9 6.7 K/9 Lee: 16-9 3.81 ERA 217 IP 165 K 1.0 HR/9 2.3 BB/9 6.8 K/9
162 Game Averages:
Oswalt: 16-9 3.24 ERA 221 IP 182 K 0.8 HR/9 2.1 BB/9 7.4 K/9 Haren: 14-11 3.71 ERA 219 IP 189 K 1.1 HR/9 2.0 BB/9 7.8 K/9 Weaver: 15-9 3.63 ERA 209 IP 181 K 1.0 HR/9 2.5 BB/9 7.8 K/9 Halladay: 17-9 3.34 ERA 234 IP 174 K 0.8 HR/9 1/9 BB/9 6.7 K/9 Lee: 16-9 3.81 ERA 217 IP 165 K 1.0 HR/9 2.3 BB/9 6.8 K/9
Like Oswalt is plastered over ESPN all the time. This summer was the most face time he’s ever received, and most of it doesn’t at all reflect the kind of guy or pitcher he is. If you think Weaver or Haren is EVEN CLOSE to the caliber of pitcher Roy Oswalt is, you’re delusional.
hhahahaha good one.
hhahahaha good one.
well lets think about this here, yeah the padres are having a great season… but if you told me i could have halladay, oswalt, hamels, blanton, and etc… or latos, richard, leblanc, garland… honestly who would you take? I think latos is going to be a star, but seriously?? halladay, oswalt, and hamels is not really that far behind carp, wainwright, and garcia, hamels is better than garcia, halladay and carp are a wash, and oswalt isnt far behind wainwright. The giants staff ill give you, id consider taking over the phils staff due to age/potential, but it wouldnt be as easy as youre making it out to be…
You’re right about the Padres, I’ll give you that one. But the post I was replying to was noting that the Phillies did have the best rotation, which I disagreed with. I may have been a little blunt on my reply, but it was the first thought that popped into my head when reading that. With the addition of Oswalt, the Phillies rotation should be strong, but not as strong as the Giants, Red Sox, Cardinals (not by much, as you noted, but would still rather have), and maybe even the Rays and Athletics in the near future. Both the Rays and Athletics have a lot of young, cost-controlled pitching depth that will be dominant in the near future. Long-term would you rather have an aging Phillies pitching depth that will cost a lot in the next few years or a young, cost controlled pitching staff that has already proved to be one of the top in the league with both the Rays and Athletics?
What would separate the Phils rotation from those other ones is the experience. Garcia is a rookie, and may have to be shut down at some point. As is Latos, and I believe Richard (not sure about that one). Not to mention when healthy, the Phils line up can take pressure off their pitchers by providing more than 2 runs a game.
I was also replying to the fact that all the teams I mentioned all have better bullpens than the Phillies, who, even though they upgraded on their starting pitching, still have a horrible bullpen. The Phillies starting pitching may be more talented than the Padres, but the Padres got a much better bullpen than the Phillies. Which is why I mentioned the Padres as having a better staff than the Phillies.
I dont know that their bullpen is horrible. Its certainly not the best. Durbin has been one of the best middle relievers in the MLB this year. Madson is a legit set up man. And Romero is one of the better lefty relievers in the MLB given the way he can get right handed hitters out as well. Jose Contreras has started to come back down to earth, though is still a serviceable power arm if not pitched every day. Lidge is the question mark. Overall the fact that 4 of the 5 mentioned relievers have all been on the DL this year has hurt the continuity of being able to define roles. The pen has been good over this 7 game streak.
That is true. Though in order for it to be a serviceable bullpen, Durbin, Madson, and Romero are going to have to stay healthy and pitch like they have in their good years. The fact that most of the Phillies bullpen has been unhealthy is what turns me off along with the fact that they need a durable closer.
Lidge is still a work in progress. If he shows the ability to throw his slider for strikes, then he will be fine. Right now he is locating his fastball well which has led to his resent saves, but he is not commanding his slider well and batters are spitting on it.
Jose Contreras has saved 3 games this year, due to his age though, he isnt able to do it consecutively more than 2 days in a row. Romero has picked up some saves too. Wishfully thinking patch work, I know, but its not impossible.
True, but I still wouldn’t call Lidge durable given his up and down stints with Philly combined with the amount of injuries hes had over the past couple years. The Phillies really need a secure, solid back-end of the bullpen type pitcher in order for them to have a serviceable bullpen. If Lidge can come back healthy and pitch even close to what he did in 2008, then great. But for now, I wouldn’t call Lidge durable.
True, but I still wouldn’t call Lidge durable given his up and down stints with Philly combined with the amount of injuries hes had over the past couple years. The Phillies really need a secure, solid back-end of the bullpen type pitcher in order for them to have a serviceable bullpen. If Lidge can come back healthy and pitch even close to what he did in 2008, then great. But for now, I wouldn’t call Lidge durable.
Oswalt isn’t far behind Adam Wainwright? I’m a Brewers fan and hate the Cardinals, but Wainwright gets no respect…
Also, it *is* actually pretty darn easy to take Lincecum/Cain/Sanchez/Bumgarner/Zito over the Phillies’ rotation. One is much, much better than the other.
1,2,3 and thats it. theres rotations that have a solid 1-5.
Got Cliff Lee last offseason, and then he was shipped out in the offseason.
I’ll be honest, I think there may be a better chance of him using his NTC rights than people think. Although I don’t think he will; just saying it’s not a given, especially considering Derrek Lee just used his 10-5 rights to block a trade to LAA.
And why is this coming out NOW? Shouldn’t these GMs be asleep by this time? It’s 1:20am in Houston, and 2:20am in Philly.
GM’s are robots.
like GMs sleep during the trade deadline week
Too bad I read the other day he doesn’t want to play in Philly….either way will bite the Phils…. They will have to pick up the 16 mil option and his injuries will come back to haunt them…. that ballpark will kill his numbers and trading Happ doesn’t upgrade their rotation much…..plus as long as Utley and Victorino are out and Lidge and Moyer are on that team, the Braves got the division….and as a Mets fan I hate the Braves as much as the Phils, but I’m a realist.
Yeah, Oswalt never said he didn’t want to play for Philly. It was an erroneous report which he debunked hours later, but all Phillies fans immediately took as a grave insult to their character and good name and decided they didn’t want him anymore, all on the basis of a false rumor.
people are excited. sports talk radio here and all the twitter trends are very positive.
Yes, sorry, I shouldn’t have said “all” Phillies fans.
I’ve just seen an awful lot of then on the interwebs who ran with the idea that Oswalt somehow hates Philly, even though it was an unconfirmed report from an anonymous source and he said he’d play anywhere and “location doesn’t matter” hours later.
How soon before oswalt accepts? Will he have to sleep on it tonight or will they call him right away for an answer ?
He’s probably asleep by now! Give it until about afternoon before we hear anything, I suspect.
Damn, I’m interested in what the return for the ‘Stros will be.
Supposedly from someone connected to agent Bob Garber, the deal is as follows:Phillies Receive:SP Roy Oswalt (Phils agree to renegotiate 2012 buyout from $2M to $5M)2B/Utility Jeff KeppingerCash Consideration of $8M (roughly half of Oswalt’s remaining 2010 salary plus buyout)Astros Receive:1B Jon SingletonP JA HappP Scott MathiesonOF Anthony GoseAstros have given Oswalt until 1PM EST tomorrow to accept or decline. Phils want presser at 3PM EST
ehhhh that is alot. But the money evens things out.
do you have a link or anything?
Not at this hour. Working on it.
Not much will happen till the AM.
Pretty bad trade for the Astros. Happ is the only decent “prospect”, if you can even call him that being 27 years old and turning 28 in October. Happ is good but has shown command issues, especially in the playoffs. If you take money out of the equation it’s almost a complete ripoff for them. Phils also get to buyout Oswalt’s contract in 2012. So they only have to pay the full $16 million in 2011. Not too shabby for one of the best pitchers in the league when healthy. If Cliff Lee signs a $22 million contract next season, then maybe our Cliff Lee trade will make an inkling of sense.
that is honestly to much for Oswalt.
Singleton hurts, but the rest are relatively easily replaced.Don’t overlook Keppinger as a quality utility guy. In my eyes, this mimics the Lee trade from Cleveland. One decent prospect and three replaceable guys. The Phils also pickup a decent bench piece.Phils had to pony up in order to avoid the option year. Now the risk of Oswalt is limited somewhat.Singleton is the best player to be traded for an Ace in recent memory.
It obviously depends on the amount of money going the other way but Happ is probably more valuable (though not this year) than Oswalt is and, if Singleton really is in the deal, he’s a big loss. Hopefully for the Phils, they’re getting more than $10 million back from the Astros in order to make this a good deal for them.
If you consider the fact that Singleton is blocked by Howard considering he is about 2 years away from the bigs, and the Phillies are a win now team, then its worth it.
I dont care how far Singleton is. He could be converted to left field if he continues to grow next year.
I find this deal hard to believe. If its true I hope Oswalt says no to the deal or are paying for his entire 2012 option. If not Amaro is the worst GM in the history of baseball.
Singleton is a good athlete for a first baseman, but even still, you never know whether he could play acceptably in left field. He could end up being like Adam Dunn, bad routes and tons of negative defensive value, hurting his overall WAR. (Not saying he would, I’m just saying it’s a very real possibility.)
Plus, the Phillies have a lot of other high-upside outfield prospects, not as good as Singleton, but still good prospects.
Jonathon Singleton, a highly touted OF prospect, a late inning bullpen arm, and a potential #3 starter is a bad trade for the Astros? They have a chance to start to turn their franchise around with this trade.
Singleton is better than Happ and could easily be the best first base prospect in the minors this time next season, if he’s not already. Mathieson should be a good bullpen arm, and Gose is a good outfield prospect. This is a great trade for the Astros if it’s true.
Tell me you’re joking. The Astros are dying to dump the contract. You think they’re not thrilled to also be getting a No. 3 SP, a power-hitting 1B who will be starting in late 2012 and a speedy outfield prospect?
Tell me you’re joking. The Astros are dying to dump the contract. You think they’re not thrilled to also be getting a No. 3 SP, a power-hitting 1B who will be starting in late 2012 and a speedy outfield prospect?
Pretty expensive…just have to see if it pans out I suppose.
Not a bad deal for both sides. $8 million significantly helps Philly, as does Keppinger who can fill in for Utley and still provide a right handed bat off the bench with a little pop.
Jonathan Singleton is a future face of a franchise player. Happ is a very talented pitcher. Mathieson is a late inning bullpen arm.
I think this deal is tremendous for both teams. The financial aspect of Oswalts option is a big deal breaker seeing as how he more than likely will be bought out at age (i think) 36?
Keppinger kills lefties too over his career. Career .858 OPS against LHP. And he has the flexibility to play a solid third base. Should help a lot as a bench bat.
I find this deal extremely hard to believe. Its more than what was sent for Halladay. If this was a bidding war than maybe.
Money was a big factor. Phils need payroll certainty. Also, it saves trading more prospects to get a utility man from Baltimore.
Phils also wanted to keep Cosart and Colvin.
I think they gave up more for Halladay. Taylor was regarded as SLIGHTLY less talented than Dom Brown. The book is still out on D’Arnaud even though everyone seems high on him. And the center piece was obviously Drabek.
Not sure whether I agree with that or not, but suffice it to say, the deals are pretty close. If the Astros are including Keppinger and that much cash in the deal, it seems like the Phillies are getting back similar value to what Halladay brought back.
Mathieson is a curious piece to this deal. After all, he hasnt been able to be called up to the PHILLIES bullpen this year, I think that says something.
I imagine Wade wanted him because he drafted and developed Mathieson. But it’s true Mathieson does have great numbers and very good stuff. I question whether he will be able to stay healthy.
I think it says that Baez and his terrible contract limits some of the moves we can make. If Baez wasn’t here I think we’d see Mathieson in our pen. People said he was our future closer.
I don’t know much about the other prospects past Happ. I am a Jay’s fan and have been following the prospects from the Halladay deal. They all seem to be working out very well and we expect to see Wallace up soon. In the end I hope it works out for the Phils and the3 Astros
No it’s not. Drabek and Taylor, by themselves, were worth more than the package Houston’s receiving. It’s not even close.
Wow, if thats true, for the Astros sake they better hope Oswalt agrees to the deal as well. That package could have netted Dan Haren.
I’m guessing they like Oswalt better than Haren. The inclusion of $8M in cash means Oswalt winds up being about the same price. Possibly they are worried about how many fly balls Haren gives up, and think Oswalt will give up fewer homeruns in Citizens Bank Park.
Maybe. But Haren in my opinion has been much better than Oswalt the last few years and while Haren may have more years on his current contract, Haren is cheaper on a year-to-year basis. The way hes pitching this year seems a bit fishy to me. I suspect that his somewhat poor year has been due to bad luck and a bad defense playing behind him. I think he’ll rebound.
That would be the popular argument, but, given the return that Haren brought for Arizona, it seems major league GMs don’t agree. It doesn’t seem like Arizona screwed up in terms of judging his market value either, because it’s not like other teams were rumored to be offering more (the Yankees were offering a similar deal, for example).
Thats true, but I feel like Arizona could have done much better than that. I think that Arizona was just looking to get rid of Haren due to his contract and many other teams knew that, therefore not offering much. If the Diamondbacks were to have handled the Haren trade talks the way Seattle and Jack Z. did with Cliff Lee, the Diamondbacks could have gotten a much better return. Even if Arizona didn’t get the trade proposal they were looking for, they should have just kept him and tried trading him next year where maybe he could have rebounded and gotten a better return. He would have still had a couple years on his contract next year. Plus the Diamondbacks would have had a stable GM who would have probably handled trade talks better. Another reason I think the Diamondbacks got a small return from the Angels was that the GM for LAA knew that he could take advantage of a new GM given he just came in not too long ago. Either way, the Diamondbacks messed up on the Haren trade badly.
I wouldn’t have traded him if that was the return I was getting that’s for sure. But I was just pointing out that MLB GMs apparently didn’t think he was worth offering all that much for.By the way, the reason there wasn’t a bidding war for Oswalt is not that there wasn’t interest. It’s because everyone knew Houston was asking for the moon for its franchise player. If this rumored deal is true, people will accuse the Phillies of bidding against themselves, but I don’t think that’s true. The Astros wouldn’t have accepted anything less from anybody.
Well I think the only reason why GMs would think that Haren doesn’t cost much is because of the fact that he has struggled this year and might not like his current contract (which isn’t actually that bad, at least compared to others). If he were having the type of year he’s had in the last couple years, he would be much more coveted.
With Oswalt, I also think not many teams went after him because of the fact that Oswalt wouldn’t waive his no-trade clause to many teams, making him restricted to where he goes. Though I agree with you on your points about Oswalt.
All of this due to Ibanez, Lidge, and Moyer totalling 29.5 million in payroll for 2010…or 1.4 million in real value according to WAR into real dollars.
Well the Lidge deal isnt a fair argument. He won the Phillies a world series, and the extension was a good signing at the time. Unfortunately for them, he has dealt with injuries since.
Yes, but that was signed mid 2008 before the season was over. Joe Nathan a closer who had proved himself year in and out sign a 4/47. When was the last time Lidge had proved himself year after year?
Yes, but that was signed mid 2008 before the season was over. Joe Nathan a closer who had proved himself year in and out sign a 4/47. When was the last time Lidge had proved himself year after year?
If that is true…that is really good trade for both parties.
Roy Oswalt’s time in Houston has come to an end. And their window has obviously closed, so now we find out how bad Oswalt wants to win. If he turns this trade down. Then I am not sure what to make of him and the rest of his career.
As for the Astros, JA Happ is a nice piece to land. If they can part ways with Oswalt without having to eat anymore money beyond this year would be a major plus. In this case I wonder if the ‘Stros would take less (in terms of prospects) in return to save money on the Oswalt contract.
If that is true…that is really good trade for both parties.
Roy Oswalt’s time in Houston has come to an end. And their window has obviously closed, so now we find out how bad Oswalt wants to win. If he turns this trade down. Then I am not sure what to make of him and the rest of his career.
As for the Astros, JA Happ is a nice piece to land. If they can part ways with Oswalt without having to eat anymore money beyond this year would be a major plus. In this case I wonder if the ‘Stros would take less (in terms of prospects) in return to save money on the Oswalt contract.
hope this isn’t true. Kepp has proven that given the chance he’s a good everyday 2B. We need someone like him with all the rookies and nobodies we’re calling up/picking up from obscurity lately
hope this isn’t true. Kepp has proven that given the chance he’s a good everyday 2B. We need someone like him with all the rookies and nobodies we’re calling up/picking up from obscurity lately
I wanna see what we get. I hope we get some decent pieces for a down-the-road run at contention.
i have been hearing that its J.A. Happ and a few prospects…could these prospects be Vance Worely, Jonathan Singleton?
Anyone who is worried about the Phills becoming a lh heavy lineup with the addition of Brown and loss of Howard just need to look at Brown’s minors stats. In 2010 he hit above .300 vs. both righties and lefties. I’m hoping RAJ doesn’t shell out the farm for this contract. Want to see the players involved, but as of right now a rotation of Halladay, Oswalt, Hamels, Blanton and Happ is fierce and rivals any teams top 3. As for top 5 though the Giants take the cake.
The loss of Werth after the season…not now. Vic hitting the dl ended that rumor.
Loss of Werth…it’s late.
They won’t trade Werth with Victorino on the dl
werth isn’t going anywhere
Werth was off the table before the Rockies series was over.
Phils gave up a lot.
i really wish that were true. i doubt it though. i can’t see them not taking happ. he’s really their only tradable pitcher other then maybe trevor may. as much as i like singleton’s potential, i’d rather see him go over happ, especially since howard just signed a multi-year extension. a playoff rotation of halladay, hamels, oswalt, and happ? yes please…
This stinks. St. Louis better do something soon. They were already not better without adding anyone. Now they are really behind the Phillies.
personally , as an astros fan i forget happ .
im not high on him , personally .
his command isn’t all that and what is so great about him ?
forget that i’ll give you oswalt , and JUST BECAUSE his “salary” is a problem for you guys i’ll go light on this trade . . .
Phillies get :
Oswalt
Keppinger
Astros get :
1B Singleton
OF Gose
P Cosart
P Bastardo
P Aumont
Oswalt is great .
all these injury excuses are ridiculous , he’s been injured one time in 10 years .
generally , this happens to a ballplayer pitching every 5 days .
He’s a workhorse , period .
he gives you an opportunity to win every time he goes out .
I wish we could get dominic brown , badly .
if we dont get cosart and singleton i will be livid .
dodgers miss out again! we can never do anything. were done for this year.
Forget Lee/Haren/Oswalt, you guys got Scotty Pods!
i know! this guy will definitely save our struggling offense and most importantly make our rotation strong!
Forget Lee/Haren/Oswalt, you guys got Scotty Pods!
I could swear I read somewhere that Oswalt did not want to pitch in Philly. Perhaps to avoid the veto, his options become guaranteed? Or at least a couple of them. Or perhaps they’ll drive a dump truck full of cash up to the Oswalt estate and unload. I wonder…
You did read that, and it was an unconfirmed report (tweet really, IIRC) from an anonymous source that was soon after shot down by a Houston reporter quoting Oswalt directly.
Don’t you love trade deadline time? Everyone’s got a scoop, even if it’s completely fabricated.
I could swear I read somewhere that Oswalt did not want to pitch in Philly. Perhaps to avoid the veto, his options become guaranteed? Or at least a couple of them. Or perhaps they’ll drive a dump truck full of cash up to the Oswalt estate and unload. I wonder…
I hope Oswalt turns the deal down
I hope Oswalt turns the deal down
For you Phillies fans who are claiming that the Phillies are ‘clearly superior’ to the Braves, take off your blinders for once. These teams are actually very evenly matched. They will probably split (roughly) their remaining 6 games, and my guess is that both will make the playoffs.
As far as the teams go, the Phillies have better starting pitching and offense, and the Braves have a better bullpen, manager, and bench. But all in all, it’s pretty damn even, which should be obvious.
Sound like you know what you are talking about, and stop just cheering for your own team.
For you Phillies fans who are claiming that the Phillies are ‘clearly superior’ to the Braves, take off your blinders for once. These teams are actually very evenly matched. They will probably split (roughly) their remaining 6 games, and my guess is that both will make the playoffs.
As far as the teams go, the Phillies have better starting pitching and offense, and the Braves have a better bullpen, manager, and bench. But all in all, it’s pretty damn even, which should be obvious.
Sound like you know what you are talking about, and stop just cheering for your own team.
Just outta curiosity who said Singleton is 2 years out? The kid hasn’t even put in a full season in the minors yet and is 18 years old. When was the last time you saw a 20 yr old kid contribute to an MLB club? And if he stuck with the phillies, howard at first or not theres no way the phillies bring him up that quickly, its not how the phillies work. Yes he is having a great year and is showing a lot outta an 8th rounder but come on now 2 years out of being mlb ready? Give me a break, and frankly give the kid a break too. Btw Halladay/Oswalt/Hamels is going to be a hell of a rotation come playoff time…
heyward…
Starlin Casto…
Just outta curiosity who said Singleton is 2 years out? The kid hasn’t even put in a full season in the minors yet and is 18 years old. When was the last time you saw a 20 yr old kid contribute to an MLB club? And if he stuck with the phillies, howard at first or not theres no way the phillies bring him up that quickly, its not how the phillies work. Yes he is having a great year and is showing a lot outta an 8th rounder but come on now 2 years out of being mlb ready? Give me a break, and frankly give the kid a break too. Btw Halladay/Oswalt/Hamels is going to be a hell of a rotation come playoff time…
well this is now most certainly werth’s last two months in a phillies uniform. good thing for dom brown
well this is now most certainly werth’s last two months in a phillies uniform. good thing for dom brown
Can the Phillies actually afford this? Oswalt tends to give up more fly balls right? Can’t beat the Braves pitching.
Since when are the Braves the greatest thing since sliced bread?
Since when are the Braves the greatest thing since sliced bread?
Can the Phillies actually afford this? Oswalt tends to give up more fly balls right? Can’t beat the Braves pitching.
So what if they get Oswalt and Bautista? Braves will still own them. Philly will not keep up their current pace and the Braves aren’t gonna lose 2 of 3 the rest of the way. Philly will be lucky to win the Wild Card.
LOL scared much?
Nope not much to be scared of, baseball is a form of entertainment.
LOL scared much?
what makes you think that the Phils play like the rest of the way? Why should everyone think the Braves can play the way they are playing the rest of the way. I believe that history would say the Phils are playing the way should have been playing the whole year.
It’s baseball and there’s plenty of games left. Phillies can’t win out for 2 months. Braves can’t lose for 2 months. Braves will win the NL East.
Braves’ lead was built on an unsustainable .750 win% at home, and overachievement from some cheap free-agent fliers (Glaus, Hinske). They’re a good team, but they played well over their heads in the first half..no team has won at a .750 clip at home since the late-90’s Yanks, and the Braves certainly not the late-90’s Yanks. This trade is about the playoffs, not the Division. The Phillies were already in a position where merely playing to their potential would allow them to catch the Braves.
So what if they get Oswalt and Bautista? Braves will still own them. Philly will not keep up their current pace and the Braves aren’t gonna lose 2 of 3 the rest of the way. Philly will be lucky to win the Wild Card.
Lilly and Westbrook can now be dealt before the deadline they pretty much the best 2 known for sure available pitchers.
Lilly and Westbrook can now be dealt before the deadline they pretty much the best 2 known for sure available pitchers.
If Oswalt comes to Philly not only is this a good move for this year but next year they are set up for another run to. Now i know this will bring out all of the people who say well you had Lee. Yes we did but if you have a gun against Ruben head and said you have 1 year with Lee or 5 years of Halladay but if you Halladay you need to trade Lee. I do appreciate him and the ownership actually admitting that they messed up and are trying to fix the problem and put their pride aside.
If Oswalt comes to Philly not only is this a good move for this year but next year they are set up for another run to. Now i know this will bring out all of the people who say well you had Lee. Yes we did but if you have a gun against Ruben head and said you have 1 year with Lee or 5 years of Halladay but if you Halladay you need to trade Lee. I do appreciate him and the ownership actually admitting that they messed up and are trying to fix the problem and put their pride aside.
This is an obvious win for the Phils and has to make them favorites to return to the WS, but I don’t think it makes them a lock in the East. Maybe if the trade up in the bullpen….
You have to doubt Amaro’s ability though. This team was built by Ed Wade. Amaro made a bad deal with Lee and now’s he prob lost Werth for next (and any chance of signing Lee in FA). Hopefully, he didn’t make a mistake here.
Long term, you have to like the Braves with the stud SP’s on the way. Not the Braves style to make a big FA deal, but Werth would be the kind of RH power hitter to make the team complete in 2011.
By the way, Oswalt career vs. Atlanta 0-3 in 7 starts with a 7.58 era and 1.79 whip and .354 BAA
They didn’t want to resign Werth. He’s going to make Jason Bay money which is an overpayment.
This is an obvious win for the Phils and has to make them favorites to return to the WS, but I don’t think it makes them a lock in the East. Maybe if the trade up in the bullpen….
You have to doubt Amaro’s ability though. This team was built by Ed Wade. Amaro made a bad deal with Lee and now’s he prob lost Werth for next (and any chance of signing Lee in FA). Hopefully, he didn’t make a mistake here.
Long term, you have to like the Braves with the stud SP’s on the way. Not the Braves style to make a big FA deal, but Werth would be the kind of RH power hitter to make the team complete in 2011.
By the way, Oswalt career vs. Atlanta 0-3 in 7 starts with a 7.58 era and 1.79 whip and .354 BAA
it better not be happ AND worley…..one or the other
This is a win for the Astros. Oswalt is 30 years old, and has said he will retire when his contract ends. If the Astros at least get Happ and Worley (along with 2 others) then they just improved their pitching prospects and I imagine both of those guys will be helping the Astros in the future. I am looking forward to the future of Astros baseball. š
i LOVE all the Braves fans in here saying how this doesn’t affect them at all. Were Phillies fans quaking like this when Alex Gonzalez was traded for???
Latest is Happ, Worley and two others from A-Low A which would be one of (May, Shreve, Cosart, Colvin, Hyatt, Way, Zeid, Sanchez.
Plenty left in the cupboard even after two get picked. And the plus Singleton would STAY!
āNext year ā Iāll try to play that year out. Of course, the first thing is to get through this year.ā Oswalt said āBut my thing is if youāre not going to play at the level that you come in at, thereās no sense in going out there and just trying to add up numbers. Now, if Iām producing and a team wants me, I may play (beyond this contract), But if Iām not, I wonāt.ā
Oswalt said that back in March. This sweetens the deal a little for the Phillies doesn’t it? If he’s going to be a bum in 2012 he just won’t play. So if he means this, there’s no way the Phils get stuck with paying $16mm to a guy with no back.
People say all that. Chipper said he’d retire if he can’t hit the way he wants to. I don’t think Chipper is producing the way Chipper can right now, but he’s toughing through it. (No offense to Chipper, I respect him greatly as a player)
If it’s Happ, Worley, 2 non-Colvin/Cosart/May/Ramirez/Aumont arms, I’d pretty much be okay with it
Singleton, Cosart, Colvin and even May should not be in this deal. Please Amaro, don’t bend over again in negotiations.
I’m a self-professed Braves fan and to be quite frank, this deal scares me. Our rotation is becoming increasingly suspect and the hitting is not as hot as it was. The Phils, while hardly on fire, have continued to hang around.
That said, if you look at Oswalt’s numbers against the Braves, Marlins, or Mets (I don’t think he’s faced the Nats), they’re hardly spectacular and give Braves fans some hope. The Phils pitching actually hasn’t been as bad as they would make it appear and you’ve got to think that their lineup in that stadium will eventually come around…
Dal,
with all due respect Oswalt won’t be coming here to face the Braves, Marlins or Mets. He’ll be coming here to face the Padres, Cardinals or Giants and then if we’re all lucky the Yankees or Rays.
The sheer fact remains that many Phils players are having severe off years (Ibanez, Victorino, Rollins). I’m not going to speak of the “I” word but that’s been severe for us too. And with all that we’re 2 games back in the WC and 3.5 in the division.
That’s exactly why y’all frighten me so much. And while I realize that he’s not being brought in to face us, in a race as close as this one portends to be, every game will be huge.
As a Braves fan, if Oswalt approves the deal, the Braves are done for 2010 and 2011. They just can’t compete.
The Phillies are buying the division with their $150 million payroll, much like the Mets attempted to do the last few years (luckily, the Mets have an idiot for an owner and GM that blew his cash by overpaying poor players).
Wrong.
With a convincing argument like that, how could you be wrong?
Starting pitching becoming suspect? Hanson and Hudson have combined for 13 2/3 innings of 2ER, 15K, 1BB in the last two starts. Jurrjens before him gave up 3 of his 4 ER pitching one inning off a mound of mud in a driving rain in Miami. What games have you been watching?
J.A. Happ > Joe Saunders
Something’s not right.
Lets see; Phillies get Oswalt, Rangers get Lee, Angels get Haren and the Yankees get……..Nothing !!!!!!!. All kidding aside, the Yankess are still the team to beat. Its hard to say that when you are Angel fan.
Singleton is in the deal according to Richard Justice of the Houston Chronicle. It is Roy Oswalt for J.A. Happ, Jonathan Singleton and Vance Worley. There is a possibility of a 4th lower level prospect but he has heard nothing to verify this.
I’m assuming you’re referring to the article Richard Justice wrote from the Chronicle this morning. It’s actually an interesting article…if it’s all accurate, anyway
blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2010/07/ast…
Good return for Oswalt. If Myers and Wade have really agreed on the mutual option next year, that’s not a bad thing b/c it gives the Astros an innings eater for another year or so (which they will need). They can put him on the block next summer if they want, and get a decent return if he’s still pitching like he is now. It wouldn’t shock me to see Berkman not generating any interest. He isn’t hitting well, and he’s pricey. At least Oswalt was pitching like he was worth his big price tag. Berkman can walk after this year and I’ll be ok w/ that. Now if they could just dump Lyon on someone…
But it is Richard Justice…who knows if what he’s writing is legit or not
if thats the deal ill burn all my phillies gear…thats arguably the best hitting and pitching prospects(dom brown isnt a prospect to me anymore) for a pitcher with a 3.3 ERA….if it was strasburg maybe lol
Wow. Strong reaction. You never heard of May, Cosart, or Colvin I take it? Which one of those guys is our best pitching prospect?
Worley is barely in the Phils top 5 pitching prospects, let alone #1…
Worley was rated the Phils #18 prospect. Singleton is highly rated, but he is only 18 and is playing in low A ball. Tremendous upside, but also a lot of risk. Additionally, he plays 1B, which is occupied by Howard for the next 6 or 7 years! If we get $12M back to include Singleton, than its a heck of a deal.
Honestly, Richard Justice has a pretty shaky track record of breaking news. I’ll wait and see and hope it’s Rizzotti.
Im happy yet sad with this move for the phils. I like Oswalt, but actually, I like Haren more than Oswalt. Yet he has been a plus pitcher for a long time, but Haren is younger and I think better. I really, really dont like having to give up Happ. He was our Best pitcher throughout the year last year, for a world series team. At the top we would have Roy and Roy, then Hamels, then Blanton, and then Kendrick. Kendrick is more of a spot starter, but hes decent for a fith starter. I just would love to keep Happ, who could potentially be a top of the line starter. I would like to know who those other two pitching prospects are. Hopefully one of them is Philliepe Aumont. But I want to keep Gillies.
1. Happ will never be a top of the line starter. He’s a #3 starter. He’s already 27 or so and won’t get THAT much better. I like the kid, but let’s not get carrier away.
2. It appears as though the deal is Happ, Worley, and Rizzotti. So no low-A pitching will be going any where.
I REALLY like this trade if true. Sell high on Worley and Rizzotti, get tons of cash to cover Roy’s salary. Happ was OK but there was a reason they were letting him simmer in the minors for a while after he came back from his injury.
I think we now know why the Phils brought up Worley for a cup of coffee this week. The goal was to get him in against MLB hitters for show, even if it was just for an inning.
If that is the deal, I am will dance in the streets naked. If RAJr. keeps singleton, Cosart, Colvin, May, AND Gose AND gets Wade to pay a lot of Oswalts contract it will make up (kind of) for that earlier trade that sucked.
To me, the verdict is still wayyyy out there on the Cliff Lee deal. Ramirez is showing a lot of promise, Aumont is still very young and could be a dangerous pitcher once he adjusts to his new mechanics.
If this is the deal, I’d think that the Astros didn’t throw much money in at all b/c it’s not a particularly good haul from their standpoint.
hmmmmm so now the stros are eating a significant part of the salary? thats good…..people also fail to realize happ is 3 years younger than oswalt
Happ is 5 years younger than Oswalt. š
typo…youre right
man, braves fans are terrible.
Yet only the 3rd worst fans in the NL East.
And only the 5th worst MLB fans on the East Coast in general.
I’m surprised, if this report is true, that McLane was able to come around to the idea that he was going to have to throw in a lot of money in order to get anything decent out of Oswalt. I really thought he’d insist that he could get good prospects and throw in very little money. It’ll be interesting to see how much money he was willing to pony up, but he may have been able to buy a pretty decent prospect or two.
The only way the Astros throw money in on this deal is if Singleton is involved. If he’s not in the deal and its just for lower level prospects, then there’s no reason to include money if your not getting a top prospect out of it.
Cosart, Colvin, May, and Gose would all warrant the Astros throwing in money…not just Singleton.
Are you saying all those guys would be in the trade? Because you just named the top 3 Phillies pitching prospects. Or you mean ANY of those in the trade would require money coming back?
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m nervous to be all hyped up right now. Percentage chance Oswalt actually turns this down? I say 30-40% and that’s probably being optimistic.
The National Leagues Yankees are at it again
I heard we’re also favorites to land Lee and Crawford in the offseason as well.
I heard not only are we going to resign Werth, pick up Lee and Crawford, but also Derek Lee, Ted Lilly, and Kei Igawa.
LOL. Well, the Phillies do adhere more closely to a budget. You’ll see some serious paring of the roster in the winter as the team works to stay at or around $140 million.
How do you figure? The core is completely locked up for 2011. The only (starting) guys leaving are Moyer and Werth. The budget is not going to change barring an unexpected trade.
That’s a compliment
The Dodgers are going to take them both out this postseason, so all the above nonsense is just that…nonsense.
THINK BLUE, WON’T YOU
How has that worked out for you guys the past two years?
Hahahahahaha. God really? Thats like watching someone stomp two of your three kittens and then telling them, “I bet you won’t kill the third!”.
The phillies OWN the dodgers!
You should ask Broxton what he thinks š
12 M should def. get them singleton…should also get them cosart or colvin
just like the last 2 years…o wait
Too bad the Phillies didn’t have an ace to pair with Roy at the beginning of the season. Could have been the difference of 4-5 games by now.
Oh, wait…
Well now they have 3 aces all signed for next year as well.
I was referring to trading Lee only to go out and replace him.
Har har har. That joke never gets old!
Its not even a joke. Just depressing to see as a passive phillies fan.
Passive Phillies fan? With a Twins logo?
They and the cards are the two NL teams I root for.
But obviously twins are my hometown team.
Jump on bandwagons much? lol. You only root for 2 teams that won 3 out of the last 4 NL champs in addition to your hometown team. Oh well, if you’re buying Phils merch that helps us keep our guys around longer…
SAY NO TO INCLUDING SINGLETON!!
please no singleton….ive had a hard enough time getting over happ and worley are gone
there is no way that Singleton isn’t in the deal if the Astros are contributing 10-12 mil. Happ and Worley aren’t guys that you build trades around…
Make sure you give Oswalt a physical. Don’t let this turn into Freddy Garcia round 2.
Still nothing on Oswalt’s approval??
Oswalt has 0 incentive to say anything before the 1pm deadline either way.
Good! Get him out of here! J.A. Happ is a star. Can’t wait to see him in an Astros uniform. Hopefully we pickup Singleton as well. We need first basemen prospects.
Happ is far from a star
Oswalt< Happ
No….not really.
Yeah I may have overreacted. xD But hey, he is a solid pitcher. That’s what we need. Oswalt is that, but he whines too much…
I have a weird feeling he is going to decline this trade… -_-
Happ is a decent pitcher. He’s solid. But he’s not a star.
I have a feeling that Oswalt doesn’t want to play for the Phillies…
As a Phils fan, I hope that is the case.
I’m really torn. We’re getting Oswalt for essentially a guy who maxes out as a no. 3 and a roll of the dice on Worley and Singleton/Rizzotti. The ONLY problem I have with including Singleton is not holding on to him to see if we could get even more for him next season.
If it’s Rizzotti instead of Singleton and Mathieson instead of Worley, I’m all for it.
I’m ok with giving up Worley, nice prospect but hardly one of the Phils’ top guys…really don’t want to see Singleton go though.
If the 10-12m from Houston is accurate though, Singleton is probably going…
Also as a phillies fan, I don’t know what to think about it any more, I’ll just wait to see what happens and be happy with the result
Thank you, Jason Stark for your brilliant analysis of the situation. Imagine a pitcher not being a fan of CBP…shocking
I bet if you asked him, he’d also tell you MMP isn’t exactly a pitcher’s paradise either
Oswalt sounds like a real whiner…I hope he doesn’t disrupt the team chemistry. He doesn’t like CBP? Roy Halladay doesn’t have a problem pitching there…nor does Cole Hamels…and neither did Cliff Lee (he didn’t want to leave). And Houston’s stadium is also a notorious bandbox, so what is he complaining about. Personally, I wouldn’t give up Happ for Oswalt….
I doubt Oswalt will be a problem. Supposedly his two best friends in the game are Jake Peavy and Brad Lidge so…he at least will come in knowing someone.
As for the stadium, it doesn’t surprise me if he said he doesn’t like it…but I’d be his opinion chances pretty quickly when he starts playing for a winning team.
And strangely enough, Peavy is another one who said he didn’t want to come to Philly when trade rumors swirled last year.
you all are crazy for saying you wouldnt give Happ for Oswalt. I am phils fan and i like Happ. Happ is nothing more than a 3/4 pitcher. you are giving him up for a ace pitcher. its just ridulicous to all of you people wanting to hold onto this guy. yes hes cheaper but having Oswalt gives them a legit shot at a right. remember people Happ didnt even start last year in the playoffs.
philly radio saying oswalt has ok’d the deal and has already talked with RAJ
“Roy Oswalt plans to OK deal” ….. in a 1 hr special at the boys and girls club tonight on ESPN!!!!
Hes not even here yet and I hate him. What a whiner. I have a feeling if the trade does go through he going to be a disaster. Whether it be injuries or just blowing games.
11 MILLION to the phils…..all but insures singleton is involved
boomshwa, Give Jason Stark a break, he is just trying to provide a little more insight in the story.
Love getting Oswalt here. stinks Happ has to leave. Hope the phils didnt give up too much on the prospect front though too. but now the Phils have a great 1,2,3 line up for the rest of the season.
Would have been better if we could have traded KK rather than Happ.
you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
just heard now that the astros want gose because bourn is getting too pricey
Oswalt approves the deal? Everyone is hush hush on the prospects? This all seems quite interesting to me.
Singleton IS in this deal. If the Astros are giving 12 Million dollars (half of what is owed to Oswalt in ’10 and ’11) then they had to be getting what they want, which is Happ and Singleton. I hate to see him go but who knows if this kid could play the outfield, hes only 18 or 19 and is a BIG boy, guys built like that only get bigger, but who knows hes a few years away regardless. Singleton helps this club NOW by going to Houston and personally winning 2 World Series’ in 3 years means more to me than seeing if this kid “pans out”.
Hopefully Oswalt actually wants to play in Philly and isn’t just being pushed out the door by the Stros. I want his introduction to be smiles and laughs not grumbles and subtle bitching.
Obviously Singelton isn’t in the deal as it says up there. But that can change.
Except Singleton isn’t in the deal. You fail.
Oh because everything we’ve EVER seen on this site comes to fruition….schmuck.
I’m no better than the Rosenthals and Starks we worship.
philly radio saying its happ,worley and gose….im ok with that
that would be a heist with the $11M. Oswalt at ~$12M for a year and a half (not including option/buyout) without any of the big A-level names moving?
Gose is Bourn at best
Worley is probably a middle-reliever, maybe a back-end guy
Happ was over his head last year, probably a cost-controlled average MLB starter (maybe a #3 with his high K rate in MiLB).
the biggest lost here is worley….he was probably the closer of the future
Closer of the future? Worley was a starter for EVERY appearance he had in the minor leagues.
Gose has a lot more power potential than Bourn…the speed is there though. Easily one of the fastest players in all of baseball. He also has potential as a pitcher if hitting doesn’t work out…throws in the high 90’s from the left side.
Closer of the future? I don’t see it. 6 K9, 3 BB9 this year in AAA. Looks like Chad Durbin to me. Middle reliever, 5th starter. Has his value, but he doesn’t really belong in the game after the 7th inning.
Ty L, yeah, that’s fair. With Gillies in the system, and the way the Phils draft guys of that mold almost every year, and the psychological downgrade from a Singleton possibility to a Gose possibility, well, just seems like someone a Phils fan doesn’t mind losing for Oswalt at that modified AAV.
Gillies completely tore his hamstring from what I heard. I am not even counting on him until he comes back.
doesn’t make sense for stros though without singleton… if we giving 11 million and oswalt not having 2012 option picked up, singleton must be in deal
Happ isn’t that much worse that Oswalt at this point in their careers…Throw in the fact that he’s cheaper and team controlled for longer…and you get a couple okay prospects to go with.
Look at the Haren deal. No one is trading top prospects anymore.
Gose is a much more likely choice….Ed Wade is the GM for the Astros, remember that. Wade stockpiles relievers and athletes. Worley projects as a swing-man and Gose has amazing tools, but is incredibly raw.
in other news buck showalter hired by the O’s
I’d rather lose Gose than Singleton. I’d rather lose Worley than Cosart, May or the other high ceiling pitchers. Happ I don’t mind losing. Not a bad trade if true.
Ed Wade’s up to his old tricks!! Paying some salary (rumored) to the Phils and getting Gose instead of Singleton, Worley instead of Cosart, May, Shreve, Colvin etc.
My God I LOVE Ed Wade!!
Gargano on WIP a minute ago. Happ,Singleton and Worley
Pending physicals.
Heh and then moments later, 610 reported it’s Happ, GOSE and Worley.
I didn’t think Gargano knew anything.
he doesn’t. I’d trust Stark, Rosenthal et al more than I’d trust gargano. Plus Wade’s not smart enough to get Singleton. He’ go after a Worley who while he’s looked good lately is a middling prospect at best.
Hope you’re right. I would love to keep Singleton. I’m cool with the trade either way though.
Yea they did! I have to believe Singleton is in the deal to get 11 mil back. I believe Gargano.
Gargano? I doubt he has inside info but we’ll see.
just heard on philly radio roy halladay and cole hamels packaged to the yankees for chan ho park and joba chamberlain to clear cap space
WOW, Wade is a moron for its Haap, Gose, and Matheison..
I hope it’s Mathieson instead of Worley
happ worley and gose is offical from philly radio who had jim salisbury on….this is a steal for the phils
If this ends up being Oswalt (w/o guaranteeing 2012 option) + $11M for Happ, Worley, and Gose, this will be a HUGE win for the Phillies.
How in the world is Gose of value to the Astros? Please, someone explain this to me. They have Bourn and Bourgeois who are of the exact same cut as this kid, only already at the major league level.
Not to mention Jay Austin in AA, Delino Deshields needing to be signed…I hope this isn’t true. Ed Wade should be fired if Jon Singleton isn’t on a plane to Houston r/n
singleton is in the lineup for lakewood today. if it’s happ, worley, and gose for oswalt I will be ecstatic. (phils fan)
Don’t forget TJ Steele, Jon Gaston (although he has pop), Locke and I think I’m forgetting one more guy who’s a track star with a club…meanwhile Chris Shelton is our heir apparent for Berkman.
I got to see Shelton play down in Round Rock. It was embarrassing watching him lumber around the field. Dude threw a rocket over the second baseman’s head trying to show off his arm when all we needed was to turn the double play. Just awful.
And even Brian Bogusevic is a speed guy. Granted he’s not anywhere close to the same type as Gose; the idea of speed is still there. I’d have been happier with what the D-Backs got at this point… At least they didn’t give up 11mil with it.
That’s what eats me up. We eat the money you have to give into our demands or up the ante in someway. If it truly is Gose and not Singleton (and I’m praying Stark has the most info on this because he’s not reporting anybody but Happ and seems to be ahead of the curve on this deal) then we used none of the leverage granted to us by giving up money and by having the best arm available.
Wake me up when Drayton sells…
Some reporter noted Bourn’s blossoming salary. $2.4m this season, and two more yrs of arbitration.
Man, I sure miss Ed Wade being the GM here in Philly… Bahahahahahahahaha. I couldn’t keep a straight face!
Then again, if Singleton is in this deal, I suppose Ruben Amaro is no better…
From the reports, Ed and Amaro weren’t even the negotiators. McClane and Dave Montgomery did it directly.
Yeah, I read that. I just assumed that they were discussing money. I don’t think they’d completely overstep their GM’s like that.
it was amaro and gillick. he’s now the special assistant to montgomery, flew in to philly two days ago. boom, oswalt deal done.
this is really going to sound whiny but I’d really have liked to have seen what if anything Worley could have done in replacement of Kendrick.
that being said I’m thinking Worley of 2010 = Kendrick of 2008
If what everyone is saying is true, BIG STEAL FOR REUBEN.
Thanks for finally following through with the “Championship caliber team” crap years later, Ed Wade. I can finally be comfortable with you being a GM.
So putting all the rumors together:
It was going to be Happ + Worley + 2 pitchers
Then Singleton popped up. Then it’s Gose.
Then it became known that Happ and Gose are definites.
Which leads me to believe that it will be Happ + Gose + a pitcher (Worley, probably) –the position player being Gose, instead of Singleton.
Hurry up and release the final info people!!! Ed Wade is looking pretty bad if there is no Singleton. LOLZ
Wow if amaro just kept lee…. much cheaper and probably a better pitcher than oswalt..
…for one year.
Wow, I would rather keep Worley and trade Villar if that’s true. Win for the Phils
HUGE win if it’s Happ-Gose-Villar
Villar
I’d rather have an infield prospect than a mediocre pitching prospect
even if the IF prospect has 40+ errors and 100 k’s?
Agreed. Much rather go with the larger potential. And why do people keep mentioning the errors? He is at A ball.
WRONG JOHNATHAN WADE LOL!!!!!!!
We just got fleeced nasty!! Whats the whole point for Drayton to be paying for a GM and he’s always the one acting the GM for everything. People are going to come and start bashing Ed Wade when this was Mclanes doing.
I almost feel bad for the Astros.
Phillies get: Roy Oswalt, 11MM dollars, and don’t have to pick up the ’12, mutual option.
Astros get: JA Happ, yet another AAAA outfielder in Anthony Gose, and some dude named Jonathon Villan. I can’t even find enough information to crack a joke about that guy. Lol
Fleeced.
it’s VILLAR
Same difference. Relax yourself. Lol
who cares and it’s only 42 errors
Not saying Houston got a ton in return, but Gose and Villar are both good prospects. You can’t read too much into the number of errors a 19-year-old shortstop puts up in low A ball. (Derek Jeter had 56 errors in that league when he was the same age.) Villar has great range and a big arm and will probably develop into a plus defensive player. He’s the player in the deal I’m most sorry to see leave.
I think Villan has like 43 errors this year
Villar. Not Villan. (it’s a spanish last name)
The only question is who got more fleeced: Houston or Arizona.
If Houston had not sent that much money, Arizona but with that 11 million dollars the Astros sent no doubt that the Astros got more fleeced.
Houston, hands down.
To be perfectly honest, where the Phillies are concerned, I’m still scratching my head about what they were smoking when they traded away Cliff Lee to Seattle. WTF guys?
As a Braves fan, I think this is a nice trade for the Phillies. It does make the Phillies more formidable of course but I can’t knock them for at least trying to get better unlike the Braves who need another bat.
The Braves are trying…
How so?
wow I dont know whos worse the Astros or the Mets.That trade was stupid for the Astros.This looks like the Santana-Mets deal all over again,except that the Phillies were not the underdogs.By the way what ever happened to those prospects.The Phillies win here.Huge.Although Oswalts age makes them more so of a 30s team. They have to get some youlth on that ballclub.At least brown is very young.If not anyone else
You should stop posting. It is for your own benefit.
i love how all the braves fans are saying how this doesnt matter and how the braves are better, but if they didnt care or think its a threat why are you posting stupid comments on here and saying all this bull. I think you guys are scared shitless about this team especially since your huge lead is now gone and down to 3.5 games in a week haha. enjoy watching your great unstoppable braves come crasing down just like the mets did and even if you win the wild card imagine playing the phillies and having to face halladay hamels and oswalt in the first 3 games
heres a thought….halladay lidge and oswalt are all good friends….maybe with oswalt it will make lidge happier and he will pitch better?
Oh God I hope.
Happ, Gose and Villar? Seriously? Bring up Worley TODAY to replace Kendrick. Wade will be rightfully toasted for this deal. Not that he had much of a leg to stand on but Ruben can put his gun away now.
Sigh. There’s always some uninformed poster bringing up Cliff Lee. Let me break it down for you. The Phillies have an internal payroll of $140M set by ownership. Cliff Lee made $9M this year. They were at $138M in salary committments prior to trading for Roy Halladay. Roy Halladay made $15M this year. Gee I wonder why the Blue Jays kicked in $6M in cash in the Halladay deal. Would it be so the Phillies could stay under their $140M payroll? Then the Phils trade for Oswalt who is set to make $5M more this year. The Astros are kicking in $11M. So Oswalt won’t cost the Phillies anything this year which keeps them under their $140M payroll.
So in the end, it’s not Lee or Oswalt. In the end it’s do you want to pay $9M for Lee or do you want to pay $9M for Oswalt AND Halladay.
not only that but also Lee has been saying for years that he’s guaranteed to go to FA and will get $20 million a year.
Ill make Houston a deal we will send you Omar and Jerry + Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo for Berkman and Lee.They would probably do it anyway.We will sign bobby v get some sort of general manager and be fine.Houston would probably do this deal anyway.Cpnsidering how dumb they are.I wonder what they were smoking
Considering you are a retard, that was a well-constructed opinion. Good for you.
Astros, this was seriously the best deal you could drum up? I don’t understand. Read the post again and thought it was ridiculous they didn’t keep Lee but I didn’t see the money part of it, makes the Astros look worse. Interesting to see how Oswalt handles some true pressure although he’s not the Ace on the staff anymore.
You realize he’s started 7 playoff games, including WS
talking about the town, philly is much different than houston
The Phillies sacrificed their future for the next couple of years. Too bad they won’t even make the playoffs this year.
future ?? an average pitching prospect that had 1 good lucky season, a michael bourn clone, and a shortstop with 103 k’s and 42 errors in 100 games for a stud pitcher with a lower career era than halladay is a sacrifice? they dont need any more outfielders, they have 4 starters now, and still have gillies. and oswalt is a large upgrade over happ.
Heh, half the Braves’ lead gone in less than a week, offensive rank jumped from 10th in the NL to 3rd in a month…the slump’s over. The juggernaut is back.
Ill tell you the honest truth illgive them all of thos people for nothing.
I think that Amaro may have possibly just redeemed himself after…you know….that OTHER trade…
Im really sad to see Oswalt leave Houston…Thats like jeff bagwell or Craig Biggio leaving..Good luck Roy hope you dominate the East…