Links for Thursday, as Ubaldo Jimenez keeps winning…
- Chipper Jones may have decided on his future; David O'Brien of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports (via Twitter) that the Braves will hold a press conference for Chipper at 5pm CST today.
- The Cubs seem close to signing first rounder Hayden Simpson, according to MLB.com's Carrie Muskat.
- Rob Bradford of WEEI.com reports that the Red Sox are not close to dealing Mike Lowell to the Rangers or Twins.
- The Red Sox want the Twins and Rangers to pick up salary in a Lowell deal, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (via Twitter). The Twins and Rangers are still reluctant to pay much of the $7MM remaining on Lowell's contract.
- Pat Andriola of FanGraphs says Jake Westbrook could be a good fit for the Mets, who are looking for starting pitching.
- A Tigers official tells Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports that things have been “quiet” on the trade front so far.
- Cubs GM Jim Hendry told Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune that he has "no intention of firing Lou Piniella."
- Miguel Montero tells Alex Speier of WEEI.com that he was flattered by the interest Boston had in trading for him after the 2008 season. Speier hears that the Red Sox and D'Backs, who were never on the brink of a deal, were discussing a swap based around Michael Bowden or Daniel Bard.
- If you've ever wondered what it would be like to watch a game beside Padres GM Jed Hoyer, check out this profile by Tim Sullivan of the San Diego Union-Tribune. Within the piece we hear that Hoyer would like to make San Diego an especially appealing destination for pitchers.
- ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick examines the Padres' amazing pitching and points out that manager Bud Black and Hoyer were pitchers themselves.
id still do bowden/montero in a split second if that got back on the table, what a missed opportunity for boston
Chances that Arizona would entertain that deal for Bowden again…0%
Yep, was a big missed opportunity if they could have had him for Bowden straight up but I guess that’s why hindsight is 20/20.
“Chances that Arizona would entertain that deal for Bowden again…0%”
of course, why the hell would they? Bowden is proving he is full of fail, while this second tier catcher has gone on to be pretty successful, so successful he managed to boot out the catcher the D’Backs signed long term almost the same year he signed the deal.
Oh, ye of little knowledge.
The Red Sox have tried to change Bowden’s delivery since he was last in the majors. While that idea was full of fail, Bowden is not.
Since switching back to his old delivery he has a 1.88 ERA, 0.88 WHIP, 4.50 K/BB, .195 avg.
Even with that, he is still just a 23 Y.O. in AAA.
The reports weren’t that the DBacks wanted Bowden, that’s what the Sox offered.
i wouldnt pay for lowell either if i were the twins or rangers, unless it was just to unload him for nothing.
San Diego already is a great destination for pitchers. Nice weather, big ballpark, great pitching coach, manager who was a former pitcher, good defense, fantastic bullpen support. The only thing missing is a better offense to keep you from losing 2-1 or 3-2 or even if you pitch poorly and give up a 5 spot, you might as a pitcher like to know your offense has your back.
Start by acquiring David DeJesus. He’s a perfect fit for what they need. I would also like to compliment Bud Black. He’s done a terrific job with the players he’s been given.
IIRC, AZ wanted Bowden, but the Sox were only offering Bard. Good thing that didn’t happen…
Hindsight is 20/20. texas wanted Bucholz for teagarden, or Salty, but Boston was only willing to give them Bard at that same time period also. you think the Red Sox would give Texas Bard for both Salty and Teagarden, or to the D-Backs for both Montero and Snyder, even without Snyder’s monstrous contract? Doubt it.
I would trade for either of those four catchers tho; after this year it’s going to be tough to find a capable major league catcher.
Hopefully the young guys everybody thinks are great really are ready. Or you could see a trade for a catcher as i don’t see VMart coming back and we all know Teks not a 120 game catcher anymore.
It’s really not that sore a need. Because production from a catcher is so hard to come by, especially now, the bar will basically be set at defensive adequacy (fingers crossed for proficiency). Between making up in that department for what’s been missing in the Tek-V-Mart years and the replacing the missing production with upgrades elsewhere in the lineup, the Sox should turn out no worse for wear.
A productive catcher’d be real nice, though. Been awhile.
I’m curious, do you think V-Mart will be back next year ?
I think he’d like to, and that the Sox would like him to … for 1B/DH money. With the market as it is, he should be demanding catcher money. But if he does demand that, I don’t think the Sox pony up unless the years are very short or the options & escalators are very creative.Me? I’d take him for quite a few years at the 1B/DH price. I wouldn’t take him for more than two otherwise.
Montero is much more valuable than Bard is. Bard is a reliever, and Montero is a very talented position player at a premium position. You must be kidding yourself if you think a reliever is more valuable than an everyday player.
Montero had better start hitting like a league avg catcher then, after all, he has had 4+ seasons and has yet to do it and bard, in 1 season has shown he could be a closer on many teams already, not to mention is already a premier 8th inning setup guy that many teams dearly need and is doing an admirable job of right now.
No, i really doubt that Montero (and Snyder) gets Bard, reliever or not, especially when Bard has almost 5 years left of service time before he walks as a FA and the Sox have him as an option to dealing with Papelbon and his demands after next season. Easier to find a league average (at best) catcher than a dominant reliever.
League average catcher? OK you homer, your opinion on this is obviously not valid. Did you see what Montero did last year? League average…I guess V-mart is well below league average, plus he can’t throw anyone out to save his life. Go drink some Sam Adams piss you dirty, misinformed chowdahead
Boring.
Calling Montero a league average at best catcher is a little ridiculous. Take a look at his numbers after the AS break last year.
I don’t know where you get your info. Montero is hitting like a well above average catcher. He had an .832 OPS last year, and is hitting well in his time since he’s come back from injury.
Last two years:
Montero: 3.4 WAR
Bard: 1.5 WAR
It doesn’t matter how good Bard is, he’s a reliever, and relievers only pitch just about 50 innings every year. Catchers in general are more valuable than relievers. Plus, add in that Montero is an all star level talent, and it’s NOT EVEN CLOSE. Montero > Bard. No question.
It actually matters quite a bit how good Bard is; these calculations aren’t to be made in the abstract. Boston has specific needs in specific contexts. One dimension of the present context is a closer on his way out. Adequate replacements are expensive when you’re in the AL East, unless you have a guy like Bard.This has nothing whatever to do with Montero (who you’re right is quite good) or with the fact that a quality position player is more valuable than a quality reliever in the abstract (they are). It has to do with Bard v. Montero in terms of the Sox evaluation. Which is what this thread is about.
True. Anyone other than Bard in that bullpen gives me a heart attack.
Talk about boring…Sox are deep with possible bullpen arms. A catcher who can throw SOME guys out would help their defense, which is what I thought they were focusing on this year with the curious offseason moves they made.
If anything, the fact that they focused a lot on defense tells you that if anything they were compensating for V-Mart’s deficiencies so that they wouldn’t be aching to replace them (and they’re not).The Sox are not in fact deep with probable closer arms, which is what they’d need in order to Bard to be only as valuable as a typical quality reliever.
It has everything to do with Montero. My original comment said “good thing that didn’t happen…” and it is good, from a Dbacks fan’s perspective (which I am). And John Silver said that Bard is better than Montero, which is false.
Either way, you’re seriously telling me that the Sox are a better team with Bard rather than Montero? Right… 100 innings of a dominant reliever (in two years, that is) is much less valuable than 220+ games of Montero when he’s hitting .294/.355/.478/.832.
Plus, you’d still have Hagadone and Masterson. Since Montero = V-Mart offensively, and Montero > V-Mart defensively, I think the Sox would be better off with a near 4.00 FIP reliever, better defense, and a VERY good SP prospect rather than 3.50 FIP reliever with a lesser defensive catcher.
And John Silver said that Bard is better than Montero, which is false.
It doesn’t even make sense to talk about which one is better. The only thing that can be discussed is which is more valuable in specific situations (to the Sox, to the Dbacks here). I absolutely agree with you that Montero is way, way, waaaay more valuable to the Dbacks than Bard would be.
You’re seriously telling me that the Sox are a better team with Bard rather than Montero? Right… 100 innings of a dominant reliever (in two years, that is) is much less valuable than 220+ games of Montero when he’s hitting .294/.355/.478/.832.
You keep leaving out very obvious factors. They already have that production at catcher and could keep it. The question is whether they’re better off trading away their hedge against Papelbon’s departure or decline (which means either taking on very costly risks in baseball’s toughest division or paying big money to keep or adequately replace Paps) for…what, a few more baserunners thrown out (plus whatever they’d turn V-Mart into)?
Bard is cheap, controlled for 5 years, his ceiling (for his position) is at least as high as Montero’s, and the Sox have a weakening bullpen.
Plus, you’d still have Hagadone and Masterson. Since Montero = V-Mart offensively, and Montero > V-Mart defensively, I think the Sox would be better off with a near 4.00 FIP reliever, better defense, and a VERY good SP prospect rather than 3.50 FIP reliever with a lesser defensive catcher.
Oh, for the record, I agree with all of this. The Sox would be better off if they had made the swap. Hard to dispute that. I’ve been responding to the idea that Montero is more valuable than Bard. He’s not.
So explain to me, how is Bard more valuable than Montero? Relievers aren’t as valuable as position players, due to how little they play. And that’s a fact.
I just did. I’ve already explained to you that the fact that relievers are less valuable than position players in the abstract is irrelevant to the calculation of whether Bard or Montero would be more valuable to Boston now.
Boston already has everything Montero brings to the table except defense. Without him, they’re quite fine. Boston absolutely does not have everything Bard brings to the table already. In his absence, there’s a hard-to-fill hole immediately and more importantly a gaping hole going forward. They’d have to either overpay Papelbon, overpay someone else to replace him, or risk 5-15 games running a mediocre reliever out in the 9th over the next 5 years.
Even if you assume Martinez walks, this is still the case. The offense produced by the catcher can be replaced with predictable upgrades elsewhere in the lineup. Offense is not a problem for the Sox going forward. Montero’s defense is behind the plate isn’t hard to replace at all.
Compare this to the replacement cost — the dollars and/or the risk — of a closer in the AL East and the conclusion is clear. Bard is more valuable to the Red Sox than Montero.
Montero has been/is being paid 2.425MM over the ’09 and ’10 seasons, while V-Mart is paid 12.7MM over the same two years. You’re saying the Sox can’t get a reliever as good as Bard with 10MM? I call shenanigans. Hell, you could’ve gotten Valverde AND had a few mil left.
I think Boston would be better off with Montero, Hagadone, Masterson and an extra 10MM than Bard and V-Mart with 10MM less. I don’t see how you can disagree with that.
Montero’s numbers
2007 – 244 PA. 224/.292/.397 (.296 wOBA) (.173 ISO) (0.0 WAR)
2008 – 207 PA. 255/.330/.435 (.330 wOBA) (.179 ISO) (0.7 WAR)
2009 – 470 PA. 294/.355/.478 (.357 wOBA) (.184 ISO) (3.0 WAR)
2010 – 27 PA. 417/.481/.542 (.452 wOBA) (.125 ISO) (0.4 WAR)
*Injury and high BABIP (.476) for 2010.
If your gonna say something, back up with facts at least.
Yeah, no way are the Rangers going to take Lowell, pay his full salary and give some good prospect(s) to the Red Sox too. I’d steer clear of Lowell.
It’s like an inverted bidding war.
TEX: “We’ll take his salary but no prospects.”
MIN: “We’re willing to pay half his salary!”
TEX: “A quarter of his salary!”
MIN: “$1M!”
TEX: “$500k!”
As the weeks go on and he inevitably approaches just an outright cut, nobody is willing to pay a dime for him.
I don’t think his release is inevitable at all. Why do you?
I read a compelling article by a boston media guy last week. He’s literally just eating a bench spot.
Disagree, but you didn’t give me anything specific to dispute, so … let’s just have a duel.
I like the way you move.
Nobody’s been asked to pay his full salary and give up some good prospect(s). L2read.
If the Sox are expecting a team to take on ANY of Lowell’s salary they should expect no players in return. Just eat the whole salary and take a mid-level prospect already..
And mid-level is pushing it. Take anyone with a ceiling higher than mine.
If the Twins are willing to pick up $700k of Lowell’s salary, let alone $7M, they’re fools.
What a horrible commercial for some anti-heartburn medicine in the sidebar. It’s one thing to have an irritating ad that you have to mute when you first visit a page, but for it to unmute itself when you click into an article is over the top. If this isn’t sorted soon I will cease to come here.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to like this. Does adblocker work maybe ?
It probably would, thanks for the tip. I have resisted using adblocker because I like to give a little something back to the sites that provide worthwhile content for free, but if many places introduce videos as irritating as this one I will have no choice. If it’s just MLBTR, I will just cut them out of my bookmarks and get my baseball info elsewhere; no need to punish the sites that use ads responsibly.
Any news on the Chipper presser?
i love Bard as much as the next guy but id trade him in a heartbeat for MONTERO!
Regardless of his actual value, at this point I think Bard is officially UNTOUCHABLE for anyone short of Pujols or something ridiculous like that. We just need him in the pen too much this year and as our closer of the future once Paps leaves..
Wow, Pujols. You sure Pujols is worth letting Bard go over?