Links for Friday, before the Subway Series, Stephen Strasburg's third MLB start and Manny Ramirez's return to Fenway…
- Mike Scioscia tells Mike DiGiovanna of the LA Times he's "very optimistic" that Erick Aybar's left knee injury won't lead to a DL stint. That reduces the chances that the Angels will go after a shortstop.
- It's been a great year for young players like Strasburg and Mike Leake, as ESPN.com's Tim Kurkjian shows.
- Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic reports that the D'Backs often hear trade rumors from Dan Haren, who reads MLBTR. As Piecoro explains, players are generally aware of the latest rumblings in "the era of the trade rumor."
- Another top pitcher, Cliff Lee, chooses to ignore the rumors, according to Larry Stone of the Seattle Times.
- Joel Sherman of the New York Post asked 12 baseball insiders whether they would prefer to have Phil Hughes or Mike Pelfrey for the next five years and was surprised to see all 12 select Hughes.
- Edwin Jackson and Dontrelle Willis say they have good memories of Detroit and no hard feelings over the trades that sent them to Arizona, according to the Detroit Free Press.
“and was surprised to see all 12 select Hughes.”
K/BB gives a solid reason to agree. Problem with pitching to contract is that you cannot control what happens when they make contact.
pelfrey still throws 93-95, its not exactly pitching to contact
Hughes has a 2.30 K/BB in his career to Pelfrey’s 1.60 K/BB (3.36 to 1.90 this year). Despite his velocity, Pelfrey has never been an above average strikeout guy.
im not saying he is but hes not like joel piniero were he lives and dies by the ground out
Pinero has a higher K/BB too (2.68).
lol
His K9 is 6.1 this year, 5.3 or his career.
5.3 is in the Moyer, Marquis, Buehrle range.
6.1 is in the Penny, Padilla, Robertson and Arroyo range.
This is the first really spectacular season for Pelfrey. He’s been good, but this is the first season he’s been a 1/2 spot guy. I can’t say I’m suprised Hughes was selected. Pelfrey only pitched a little more than 30 games last season and had a 5.03 ERA, where as Hughes in the same year pitched over 50 games and had an ERA just a squeak above 3. Even as a Mets fan I’d pick Hughes too just because he’s been more reliable in the long run and Pelfrey is only now starting to show his potential.
Hughes was a reliever most of last year. When he did start, he was pretty terrible.
and that was because it was his first time real solid time up since his injuries, though he has hit a bit of a rough patch of starts recently like most starters do, he started the season off on absolute fire.
Well, that’s flat out wrong, because he was actually pretty good outside of two starts.
It’s not. His first and sixth start were both very good. But the rest weren’t that great. 4 ER in 4 IP against Boston, 8 ER in 1.2 IP against Baltimore, 3 ER in 5 IP against Minnesota, 3 ER in 5 IP against Baltimore (he did have 9 K and 1 BB) and finally 4 ER in 5 IP against Cleveland. His K/BB totals weren’t that impressive in any of those games except the 2nd Baltimore start and Cleveland (6/1). Maybe not terrible but nothing impressive.
Not saying a 2.07 K/BB is great, but it is still better than Pelfrey this year (1.90 K/BB).
Hughes was one of the biggest pitching prospects, so his 2010 is far from surprising. On the other hand, while Pelf has pitched well in 2010, he is certainly not the 2.39 ERA/1.22 WHIP pitcher he’s currently pitching like. Pelf is more of the 4.50 ERA/1.35 WHIP guy–which isn’t bad, but he just isn’t a top-tier guy like Hughes. Sorry!
Homer Bailey was a hyped up pitching prospect, too. Being a highly touted prospect is anything but a guarantee for major league success.
What proof do you have to back up those claims on Hughes and Pelfrey?
…but Hughes is pitching well, Bailey is not. That’s the key difference. Living up to potential is expected, though it doesn’t always happen.
The proof about Pelf lies in his past seasons as a starter. He is hittable despite his “heat,” has league-average control this season (and not league average control before this season), and just needs a losing streak to rock his boat.
Hughes isn’t pitching well lately. Anyway, my point was that being a highly touted prospect is irrelevant to the discussion.
A bad stretch will make Pelfrey’s numbers worse but he’s shown he’s over his mental issues. Just recently in that 9-inning game against the Padres, a runner reached 2nd on an error with one out. Last season, he would have fallen apart. Instead, he got a K and a ground out (1-3).
You’re correct about how being highly touted is irrelevant to the Hughes/Pelfrey discussion, but it was relevant in relation to your framing Hughes as a one-hit wonder this season due to his so-called history as a starter.
The mere fact that Hughes is dominating (overall) in the AL, and in the AL-East no less, is a factor that can’t even be applied to Pelf’s case in this discussion.
Look closer at the AL teams he’s faced. His first start was against the Angels when they were struggled. 2nd start was against the A’s who had a decent record then but have a weaker offense. 3rd start was against the Orioles, not much needs to be said there. 4th was the White Sox who were 10-15 then and their lineup isn’t pretty weak. Next was Boston, a good team who was playing well before then. Then Detroit and Boston again. After that was the Mets. And the last 4 have been the Indians, Orioles (twice) and Astros. It’s not as if he’s faced the Blue Jays (who are hitting very well this year), Rays, and Twins multiple times.
Ok. Here’s who Pelf has faced:Washington to open the season (hitters are always still raw around then), Colorado (slow start), Cubs, Atlanta (they’ve been up and down all year long), Phillies (got rocked), Giants, Washington (pretty meh start, 4 runs in 5.1 innings), Atlanta, the Yanks (minus Posada and Granderson), Phillies (during their slump), San Diego twice, and Baltimore.Keep in mind Pelfrey gets the benefit of the Pitcher and weak, defensive-specialists, whereas Hughes does not. Against the Mets, Hughes had Randy Winn to thank for keeping him from having another quality start (albeit not a win, but probably 6 innings of 3 run ball.)Also, the reason Hughes had a bad second start against Boston was thanks to 3 runs coming on one swing. It’s not like the Red Sox were stringing together 10 hits or so against him (in fact, only 6 hits and a walk in those 5 innings he pitched).I’d argue that Hughes has been superior to Pelfrey still.
I brought it up because saying Hughes is better just because he pitches in the AL isn’t telling the whole story.
A 3-run homer still counts as runs given up, so your point about that game against Boston is moot.
Yes, it does count as runs given up. However, the point i was making is that there is a difference between giving up 3 runs all on a home run and getting battered around hit after hit after hit for runs you give up. One denotes a bad pitch, the other denotes bad pitching.
How do you know it was a bad pitch? Sometimes hitters hit good pitches. Either way, downplaying his bad start saying “Oh it was bad because of one pitch” is lame. That’s baseball. A difference between a foul ball and home run can be an inch.
I see what you are saying, but being highly touted in this situation does have some relevance. Guys are highly touted are so because they have high ceilings (not to say it is guaranteed they will reach them) and since this is about 5 years from now it plays a part. Also, I get your last sentence, but picking one event and using it as proof of something accomplishes absolutely nothing.
So using your theory…the only way a pitcher can improve is by becoming “unhittable”…the K rate MUST go up higher…using your theory..Pelfrey has been “lucky” all year….smh
Yes, Pelfrey has in fact been lucky this season–and I hope it continues. However, he is not a less-than-a-hit-per-inning pitcher, and given his at-best league average control, and low K/9 rate, he is bound to find a middle-ground between his 2008 and 2009 stats–not maintain his miraculous 2010 season.
It’s not that it is all luck, it’s that a pitcher has no control of what happens. Like in the series vs Texas, Gardner had 5 hits (swings) that barely got past the mound. The pitcher beat the hitter, yet still got a hit. Transversely, pitchers can get lucky when a flukey high amount of balls are hit hard, just right at someone. With K’s it is not left up to chance, they are out.
umm tom glavine won over 300 games and a Cy Young and his K rate wasnt
spectacular…was he lucky over 20 years ?
Shocked, SHOCKED! that Joel Sherman finds yet another way to smack the Mets, even in the midst of a hot streak and going into the Subway Series. Yankees don’t need a paid PR staff when Joel Sherman will do the job for free. God forbid he does a story on Pelfrey’s turnaround, or the Mets’ turnaround. Nah, let’s find a way to actually dump on Pelfrey and minimize his success … because that’s what Yankee PR flacks posing as reporters are supposed to do.
Did you even read the article?
‘THE MOST common answer was, “I would take both.”’
‘only one respondent — an AL front office official — thought it was a no-brainer’
Yeah wow that’s dumping on Pelfrey alright.
And you’re seriously going to say that Sherman or any NY writer is all about Yankee PR? Are you kidding? The media goes off on Arod whenever he makes an error or 0-3, after CC’s slow April last year it was BUST!, AJ-Posada controversy that’s not, Joba isn’t an ace as a rookie so he’s too dumb/fat/emotional to pitch, Hughes is a bust, Javy can’t handle NY, Cano is lazy, etc.
Zack — Not only did I read the story but I’ve read Joel Sherman and all NY sportswriters all my life. Mike Vaccaro is fair. Ken Davidoff is fair. Mike Lupica is cranky but mostly fair. Joel Sherman is a Yankee shill. Thus it has been so forevvvahhh. So it doesn’t surprise me that instead of doing a story about how the Mets’ resurgence essentially BEGAN with Pelfrey’s win over Hughes several weeks ago, he decides to diminish Pelfrey by doing this Yankee flack-job.
Wake up. It’s Subway Series time and the Yanks are hosting. The Mets are on a roll and the Yankees just dropped two of three to the Phils. That’s the reason this story is there even though it’s a non-story.
Calling any NY media ‘fair’ is a joke, they all suck.
So you basically don’t like the article because it wasn’t in favor of Pelfrey. If the poll was 12-0 in favor of Pelfrey would you be crying that Sherman was trying to dump on Hughes?
There are plenty of good NY sports reporters and writers, many others who suck. Kevin Kernan writes for a 3rd grade reading level, making you wonder if he actually graduated junior high. Bill Madden is another Yankee shill.
I don’t like the story because it’s a non-story, you could put it on a piece of Yankees letterhead and it would read no different than a press release. That’s my point, it’s a joke. The real story is that for the first time in a long time the Mets are on the verge of becoming a contender and the Yankee series will be a test of how far they’ve really come in the last few weeks.
But Yankee shills like Joel Sherman don’t want to write about that, much easier to find a way to ding the Mets even when they’re going well.
Well do you not like it because somehow you don’t find it relevant, or do you not like it because it was 12-0 in favor of Hughes?
Because first you said it was just Sherman dumping on Pelfrey. Then it was Sherman acting as Yankee PR. Then you said it’s a non-story. Then you don’t like it because you claim it’s just a Yankee press release. And then you don’t like it because it’s just Sherman trying to ding the Mets.
So which is it: You don’t like it because you don’t think a poll about which good young starter in NY is better, or you don’t like it because you don’t like the results of the poll.
Zack — I think I’ve been pretty clear. The whole thing is free Yankee PR, every aspect of it. From timing to content to tone to (lack of) relevance. You wanna argue just to argue, happy to do that. It’s a slow day.
Relevance:
Pelfrey and Hughes both pitch in NY.
Pelfrey and Hughes are both young.
Pelfrey and Hughes are both having great seasons.
Pelfrey and hughes are pitching against one another.
Poll of baseball people to see which one is better long term = relevance
If the results were 12-0 in favor of Pelfrey, you wouldn’t call it Yankee PR, so basically you’re just mad at the results.
Cracking me up. You just proved the point I made to Intotheflood. There would be no results in favor of Pelf because no one would think to do such a survey (even if it would favor him) because … drum roll … there is no Mets’ shill in the NY media, only Yankee shills. And they do it because this kind of butt-kissing (they hope) increases their access to more stories regarding the only team they really care about. Only Yankee shills think up this nonsense to write about when it’s Subway Series time and the Mets are playing well. I already mentioned (twice I think) what’s far more relevant.
The results … are irrelevant. Neither team is trading either pitcher, both teams are happy with what they have. It’s not even in anyone’s imagination much less a topic for discussion. This is a distraction from the fact that the Mets have actually started to climb back up that mountain they fell (slipped, tumbled, hurtled) down and they go into this series playing well, having taken 2 of 3 from the Yanks last month.
“I already mentioned (twice I think) what’s far more relevant.”
So does that mean every single writer/reporter in NY has to write the same exact story?
“There would be no results in favor of Pelf because no one would think to do such a survey”
That wasn’t the question. If the results were 12-0 in favor of Pelfrey being the better pitcher long term, would you be here crying about it? The answer is no.
That’s what it comes down too. You’re mad that every writer isn’t writing the same story about the Mets, and how dare they do a story comparing Pelfrey to Hughes- which for some reason you claim is there no relevance, where any other person can see the relevance in comparing the best 2 young starters in NY.
Not to mention in the article Sherman also adds in Neise, and says how Mets have 2 good young starters, while Yankees only have Hughes. So OMG METS PRESS RELEASE!!!!!!
Back from getting some needed food, even lowly Met fans have to eat. First of all, sarcasm isn’t anger. No need to waste energy on Joel Sherman. Sarcasm is enough for him. There’s no relevance in this story, none. Period. Want to compare the pitchers? How have they done against common opponents? I really don’t know but that would be a good measure.
If you don’t want to see this for what it is, fine. But it’s been going on for some 15 years now and it’s the same movie over and over. This story is crapola.
Maybe you would benefit from a journalism degree. The two teams are facing each other, and regardless of recent play, they’re both “contending” in their divisions. It’s a great time for the Yankees to face the Mets and because of this, it’s a great time to compare the two. You know when this article wouldn’t have been written? Last year.
It’s a compliment to the Mets and their turnaround that this survey even took place.
It’s relevant. It’s timely. At the end of the year, Hughes might have broken his leg and missed the post ASB. Pelfrey might fall apart and have a mid 5 ERA. Then comparing them would seem unfair.
Right now though? They are the Saturday marquee matchup. Fans of both sides are looking forward to that rematch more than any other one in this series. They’re both 9-1 with great ERA’s and breakout seasons.
In any journalistic universe and with anyone who has ever studied or practiced Journalism, comparing Mike Pelfrey and Phil Hughes is going to draw huge appeal in the NY market.
It was a great time with complete relevance to do this survey and write this article.
I am shocked by the results too, and that only adds strength to the point of the article in the first place.
LOL. Not only do I have a journalism degree I’ve actually practiced journalism, including sports journalism. He called 12 of his favorite sources and they told him exactly what he wanted to hear and then he acted surprised. It happens every day.
He loves the Yankees and likes to ding the Mets, if the Mets didn’t exist he’d be perfectly happy. I’ve read his “work” for many years, this is nothing new. Which is why I was so “shocked” he wrote this.
Lupica fair? are you kidding? He can’t go one column without bashing the yankees. He’s a Mets shill if I’ve ever seen one.
A “Mets shill?” There is no such thing and won’t be until they actually win something. Does Lupica give it to the Yankees too much because of money? Yeah, I’ll grant you that. That’s what I meant by cranky, even I get tired of that. The Yankees are playing by the rules and have the resources to do what they do and they pay the freight (luxury tax). I’ll step back on Lupica being fair, I do get tired of the bashing. But no such thing as a Mets shill exists, which is fine. The best PR is winning games.
Lupica fair?
Really?
R_y_a_n — I did step back from that upon reflection, see above. Even I get tired of his consistent bashing of the Yankees over money. It’s overdone.
Mike Lupica being called mostly fair killed your entire article….That man has never given a pure compliment to the Yankees, their players or anything else in his entire life.
He wrote an entire article about how A-Rod was a fraud and how the Yankees would never win with him, he’s criticized Sabathia, he’s criticized everything. Even after they won the World Series, he had offseason criticisms. The man might be the biggest Yankee hater in the entire state
“Can you imagine if you could put Moyer’s brain in Burnett’s head? You would have fewer tattoos, a higher pitching IQ and an ace. Instead, Burnett is what he is: the Lamar Odom of baseball, a player who fails to maximize awesome skills due to a lack of concentration and daily conviction”
That came from Sherman’s article from yesterday. Wow yeah, he’s really sucking up to those Yankees.
“I think Joba Chamberlain is the A.J. Burnett of relievers for the Yankees. Like Burnett, he has elite stuff. Like Burnett, he does very little to enhance that elite stuff by having a high pitching IQ” – From Sherman’s blog.
Yup, again with the Joba and AJ are too dumb to pitch. Someone must hacked into his blog and wrote that or something because Sherman is just a Yankee shill.
I’m a Mets fan and I would take Hughes too. Pelfrey’s having a great season, but he’s due for regression. Hughes misses enough bats to actually sustain this.
Another tidbit, despite having a higher BABIP by .015 pts, Hughes has a .224/.279/.317 against to Pelfrey’s .243/.309/.337. Factor in the disparities of the ages, divisons and leagues (Hughes facing a professional hitter instead of pitcher), I see why all picked Hughes.
“It’s Hughes because of the quality of the division he is succeeding in and his superior strikeout-to-walk ratio,” the AL exec said, “and it isn’t all that close for me either.”
Phil Hughes 20 times out of 20 for me. He learned how to pitch last year with the time spent in the bullpen, developing a cutter that is currently his second most valuable pitch at 3.3 wins above, to compliment his 14.5 wins above fastball. To be honest, I think the Cutter is still his best pitch despite the disparity there, because it’s making all his other stuff better.Yes, he hit a ‘rough patch’ awhile ago(I hardly consider his last start vs. the Mets a rough patch, since Randy Winn caused the extra runs scored against him to come about), but all pitchers go through that.
How about a trade of Cliff Lee and a prospect for Dan Haren? It’d allow the D-Backs to get out of Haren’s salary, receive the Type-A draft picks this offseason, and get a prospect from the Mariners. It’d allow the Mariners to have Haren a few more years at a pretty reasonable salary, while not giving up Lee for unproven minor-leaguers.
Haren’s salary isn’t the problem.
“Joel Sherman of the New York Post asked 12 baseball insiders whether they would prefer to have Phil Hughes or Mike Pelfrey for the next five years and was surprised to see all 12 select Hughes”
Small market players get no respect. 😉
I think the Lee for Haren idea, though I selfishly want Lee back w/the Phillies.
Good, new Phillies blog: longdistancephilliesfan.blogspot.com/
since Dan Haren reads this, I’d like to take the time to let him know that I would really appreciate it if he demanded a trade to Baltimore, thanks
Pelfrey isn’t a strikeout pitcher. I don’t understand why its so hard for some people to comprehend that.
It matters because Phil looks decent at K’ing guys and they are being compared. The best outs are strikeouts, followed by GBs, then FBs.
We’ll see who wins tomorrow suckers! Go Big Pelf!
*sad trombone