A mystery team is pursuing Cliff Lee, tweets Ed Price of AOL FanHouse. According to Price, the Cardinals "may be it." Price believes that top prospect Shelby Miller is a possible chip.
Six years of Miller would be an impressive return for two-plus months of Lee, but the Cardinals would have to be intrigued by the possibility of having three aces in the rotation. Drafted out of high school, Miller is a few years away from the Majors but is said to have number one starter stuff. Since the Cardinals signed the first-round pick on August 17th of last year, he could only be traded as a player to be named later (named after a year has passed from the time of his signing).
As much as I want the Cardinals to trade for Lee, 6 years of Miller for 2 months of Lee is a little bit pricey. There is no way they would be able to resign him and pay him big bucks as long as they still want to resign Pujols and keep paying Waino, Carp, and Holliday.
im ok w/ carp leaving/reworking his contract. no secret he is on the decline. and he has a pretty hefty option, which i hope can be reworked and spread over 2 years, if not, its been fun watching him.
im ok w/ carp leaving/reworking his contract. no secret he is on the decline. and he has a pretty hefty option, which i hope can be reworked and spread over 2 years, if not, its been fun watching him.
I agree. I’m a Mariner fan and i would love to get Miller, but I just don’t get it from the Cardinals standpoint. They cant keep both Lee and Pujols. This one doesn’t pass the smell test.
I agree. I’m a Mariner fan and i would love to get Miller, but I just don’t get it from the Cardinals standpoint. They cant keep both Lee and Pujols. This one doesn’t pass the smell test.
As much as I want the Cardinals to trade for Lee, 6 years of Miller for 2 months of Lee is a little bit pricey. There is no way they would be able to resign him and pay him big bucks as long as they still want to resign Pujols and keep paying Waino, Carp, and Holliday.
is that even fair?
a rotation of
carpenter
wainwright
lee
garcia
penny
would absolutely be devastating..i mean seriously how many people can say they have a cy young winner as their #3?
then again, the rotation could be re-ordered to go
carpenter
lee
wainwright
garcia
penny
for the R/L/R/L/R thing.
then again, the rotation could be re-ordered to go
carpenter
lee
wainwright
garcia
penny
for the R/L/R/L/R thing.
In what world is Lee not a #1 on that staff? He’s better than both Carpenter and Wainright, even with accounting for park and defense.
ok, so then wainwright would be a #3. how many teams can say they have a guy that should have won the cy young last year as their #3?
happy now.
Haha fair enough. With those three the order really wouldn’t matter, Lee just happens to be my favorite pitcher at the moment š
Haha fair enough. With those three the order really wouldn’t matter, Lee just happens to be my favorite pitcher at the moment š
ok, so then wainwright would be a #3. how many teams can say they have a guy that should have won the cy young last year as their #3?
happy now.
In a world that Wainwright is pitching that’s where
I’m a big Cardinals fan and a big Wainwright fan, but Lee would have to be slotted in as the #1 starter in any of these scenarios. I would go Lee, Wainwright, Carpenter. But I don’t see any sort of Lee deal happening with the Cardinals.
No way…you’re deeply undervaluing at least wainwright…
No way…you’re deeply undervaluing at least wainwright…
I don’t think so. Wainwright is the 2nd best pitcher so far this year behind Jimenez in the NL, and has been absolutely brilliant, and although he had a rough start in his last turn, he would still be the #1.
I’m a big Cardinals fan and a big Wainwright fan, but Lee would have to be slotted in as the #1 starter in any of these scenarios. I would go Lee, Wainwright, Carpenter. But I don’t see any sort of Lee deal happening with the Cardinals.
In a world that Wainwright is pitching that’s where
In what world is Lee not a #1 on that staff? He’s better than both Carpenter and Wainright, even with accounting for park and defense.
The Giants could. (Zito)
just throwing some names out their:
allen craig, tearing it up in the minors. no spot for him in the cardinals future
+
eduardo sanchez, great reliever, future closer.
+
tyler greene
+
deryk hooker
too little? or about right. this is for just 2 months after all….
None of those guys is enough to be the best player in a trade for Lee. I’m assuming if he can’t get someone with greater upside, Jack Z would rather take two draft picks.
good point. i keep forgetting that lee would also get 2 high draft picks.
good point. i keep forgetting that lee would also get 2 high draft picks.
None of those guys is enough to be the best player in a trade for Lee. I’m assuming if he can’t get someone with greater upside, Jack Z would rather take two draft picks.
Throw in pujols and you got a deal…..Jk/hahaha
Um, Craig is expected to be the starting right fielder in 2 years after we have to let Ludwick go in free agency.
Yankees!!!!! Although that would make no sense since they don’t need a SP. Also, since when are the Yankees a “mystery team”. Anyways, I was bored and felt like posting something.
Why would the Cardinals be interested. Their rotation is dirty with Wainwright, Carpenter and Jaime Garcia. Makes no sense to rent Lee for 2 months when you can already win the division the way your rotation is now.
Yankees!!!!! Although that would make no sense since they don’t need a SP. Also, since when are the Yankees a “mystery team”. Anyways, I was bored and felt like posting something.
Why would the Cardinals be interested. Their rotation is dirty with Wainwright, Carpenter and Jaime Garcia. Makes no sense to rent Lee for 2 months when you can already win the division the way your rotation is now.
Remember, it’s 2 months of one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball for an insignificant amount of money, plus the two high draft picks he will net next year. This seems like just another speculation piece by a writer trying to make a story (a “mystery team” that “may be” the Cardinals and a trade piece “may be” Shelby Miller)… But a team giving up a top prospect for the package of such an amazing pitcher and a couple draft picks wouldn’t be out of line.
I think top 5 is a stretch…
Even after missing a month, Cliff Lee is tied with Roy Halladay for most WAR thus far this season. It’s not a stretch at all. Cliff Lee is one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball right now. And there’s a good argument to be made that he may even be #1.
I think top 5 is a stretch…
Remember, it’s 2 months of one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball for an insignificant amount of money, plus the two high draft picks he will net next year. This seems like just another speculation piece by a writer trying to make a story (a “mystery team” that “may be” the Cardinals and a trade piece “may be” Shelby Miller)… But a team giving up a top prospect for the package of such an amazing pitcher and a couple draft picks wouldn’t be out of line.
I doubt this is going to happen; if for no other reason that the Mariners have said they want “Major League ready” talent. A rookie with a 1-3 record in A ball with a 4.75 ERA hardly screams “ready.” Unless some combination of Rasmus/Carpenter/Ludwick are thrown in, I don’t see this coming to fruition.
the era is hardly a telling sign…how about the fact he was drafted out of high school and has is striking out hitters at a nice 12.2K/9innings rate or that almost all high schoolers have command issues (no seriously, how many polished high school pitchers have their been) and has a 3.53 K:BB ratio. those are much more telling than ERA.
I won’t disagree that those are more telling numbers, and I am not disputing the fact that he is a very highly touted prospect, I am simply commenting on the fact that the M’s have repeatedly said they want MLB ready talent for Lee. And at this point, a 1.5 WHIP and 4.75 ERA in A-ball is still a few years away.
the era is hardly a telling sign…how about the fact he was drafted out of high school and has is striking out hitters at a nice 12.2K/9innings rate or that almost all high schoolers have command issues (no seriously, how many polished high school pitchers have their been) and has a 3.53 K:BB ratio. those are much more telling than ERA.
I can guarantee you that Rasmus/Carpenter/Ludwick would not be in any deal for Lee. Prospects and other players such as Schumaker or Ryan could be part of the deal, but the three you list are major keystones on this team.
Agreed. Which is why I said I don’t think this will happen. The M’s aren’t going to give up one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball for Brendon Ryan (.201 BA, .274 OBP, 15 rbis) or Skip Schumaker (.258 BA, .324 OBP, 18 rbis) as the “MLB ready” talent they want…even if the deal does include Miller.
Then you probably won’t have Cliff Lee. It seems like Rasmus is a player the Mariners would really want, since he clearly is major league ready (as was said above the Mariners want major league ready talent), and has incredible potential. The Mariners wouldn’t even want Carpenter or Ludwick, since by trading Lee they would show they aren’t playing to win now. The only other way is if you package Miller, David Freese, and a couple medium-high upside guys.
This is why I feel that teams should not overpay for a rental. Yes top prospects are great to use as trade chips, but a player like Rasmus who has proven to be the Cardinals CF of the present and future is not even on the block. And David Freese has claimed himself the 3B for years to come…thus I wouldn’t even want Cliff Lee if you demanded Rasmus or Freese.
Don’t forget, it’s a rental of Lee and 2 high draft picks, since there’s a 99.9% chance he declines arbitration. I agree that trading Rasmus is pretty unreasonable but I’m just saying that pretty much means Lee isn’t heading to St Louis. I think the trade with Freese is pretty reasonable because while he’s an above average 3B, he doesn’t have much potential to be a star, since he’s already 27. Basically, Miller and Freese would be given up for Lee and the 2 medium-high upside guys would be for the 2 draft picks he would net.
Also, a few months ago I read an ESPN article, and it showed the team acquiring the big name got the better side of the deal than the one that got the prospects about 75% of the time.
This is why I feel that teams should not overpay for a rental. Yes top prospects are great to use as trade chips, but a player like Rasmus who has proven to be the Cardinals CF of the present and future is not even on the block. And David Freese has claimed himself the 3B for years to come…thus I wouldn’t even want Cliff Lee if you demanded Rasmus or Freese.
no way they let rasmus go. he is leading the NL in slugging. oh yeah, he is a center fielder. the amount it would take to get him far and beyond exceeds cliff lee. i think he is also top 3 among NL outfielders in OPS as well.
Then you probably won’t have Cliff Lee. It seems like Rasmus is a player the Mariners would really want, since he clearly is major league ready (as was said above the Mariners want major league ready talent), and has incredible potential. The Mariners wouldn’t even want Carpenter or Ludwick, since by trading Lee they would show they aren’t playing to win now. The only other way is if you package Miller, David Freese, and a couple medium-high upside guys.
I can guarantee you that Rasmus/Carpenter/Ludwick would not be in any deal for Lee. Prospects and other players such as Schumaker or Ryan could be part of the deal, but the three you list are major keystones on this team.
Miller was considered a top seven or eight talent in a much better draft last year. I wouldn’t worry about the stats.
Miller was considered a top seven or eight talent in a much better draft last year. I wouldn’t worry about the stats.
I doubt this is going to happen; if for no other reason that the Mariners have said they want “Major League ready” talent. A rookie with a 1-3 record in A ball with a 4.75 ERA hardly screams “ready.” Unless some combination of Rasmus/Carpenter/Ludwick are thrown in, I don’t see this coming to fruition.
If they only had to give up Miller I would do it, and I am a huge Cardinals fan. I know their system is not good right now, but there is no guaratee that Miller is going to be a superstar and we all know Lee is. Even if they do not resign Lee they get draft picks when he signs elsewhere. Nobody knows when Lohse or Penny will be back and it would be a waste of a season if they do not go deep into the playoffs because of a weak back of rotation performance.
If they only had to give up Miller I would do it, and I am a huge Cardinals fan. I know their system is not good right now, but there is no guaratee that Miller is going to be a superstar and we all know Lee is. Even if they do not resign Lee they get draft picks when he signs elsewhere. Nobody knows when Lohse or Penny will be back and it would be a waste of a season if they do not go deep into the playoffs because of a weak back of rotation performance.
I would think the Mariners would want quite a bit more than Shelby Miller. If it’s not going to cost much more than him, then the Cards should do it. When Lee leaves via free agency you will pick up a 1st round pick anyway. I would think any team would be willing to deal a high ceiling prospect thats 3 or 4 years away from the majors. You can just draft another one next year. Only thing it would cost the Cardinals would basically be Millers signing bonus and the rest of Lee’s salary this year.
Just can’t see it being the Cardinals
I would think the Mariners would want quite a bit more than Shelby Miller. If it’s not going to cost much more than him, then the Cards should do it. When Lee leaves via free agency you will pick up a 1st round pick anyway. I would think any team would be willing to deal a high ceiling prospect thats 3 or 4 years away from the majors. You can just draft another one next year. Only thing it would cost the Cardinals would basically be Millers signing bonus and the rest of Lee’s salary this year.
Just can’t see it being the Cardinals
I buy it. The Cards have shown willingness to trade a big first rounder the following year, and Miller’s a nice top piece for a package.
Maybe Miller and Bryan Anderson?
I buy it. The Cards have shown willingness to trade a big first rounder the following year, and Miller’s a nice top piece for a package.
Maybe Miller and Bryan Anderson?
Franklin Morales, Esmil Rogers, Greg Reynolds, and Greg Smith for Lee .
Hawpe and Lee will get about the same compensation at the end of the year so its all those young pitchers for the last few years of Ichiro’s career.
Franklin Morales, Esmil Rogers, Greg Reynolds, and Greg Smith for Lee .
Hawpe and Lee will get about the same compensation at the end of the year so its all those young pitchers for the last few years of Ichiro’s career.
oops. originally i had an elaborate scheme to trade all those pitchers plus hawpe for lee and ichiro, but then realized how silly it was, but forgot to delete it all. haha.
oops. originally i had an elaborate scheme to trade all those pitchers plus hawpe for lee and ichiro, but then realized how silly it was, but forgot to delete it all. haha.
I hope the mystery team is not the Cardinals. It would please to no end if Hoyer and the Padres were calling the Mariners about Lee. he would give them the ace they don’t have right now and they could restock the farm system with the draft picks they get for Lee over the winter. Hoyer recently said that the Padres were looking for more pitching, even though there pitchers have preformed so well this year. Getting Lee would be an enormous statement to the fans that they are really making a run at a title. They always say that, ” pitching wins championships”, lets put it to the test.
After the season let Lee go and then make the inevitable Gonzalez trade, reminiscent of ’98. The fans know that mid market teams can’t compete every year, except for the Twins, so when they do have a chance they have to do there best to make it happen. They can start the rebuilding next year. Just my opinion.
Don’t they need an outfield bat more than a starting pitcher at this point, though?
Yes they do, but there aren’t any impact bats available. If there was a good outfielder in the last year of his contract I’d be all over that too, but there isn’t.
Yes they do, but there aren’t any impact bats available. If there was a good outfielder in the last year of his contract I’d be all over that too, but there isn’t.
Don’t they need an outfield bat more than a starting pitcher at this point, though?
I hope the mystery team is not the Cardinals. It would please to no end if Hoyer and the Padres were calling the Mariners about Lee. he would give them the ace they don’t have right now and they could restock the farm system with the draft picks they get for Lee over the winter. Hoyer recently said that the Padres were looking for more pitching, even though there pitchers have preformed so well this year. Getting Lee would be an enormous statement to the fans that they are really making a run at a title. They always say that, ” pitching wins championships”, lets put it to the test.
After the season let Lee go and then make the inevitable Gonzalez trade, reminiscent of ’98. The fans know that mid market teams can’t compete every year, except for the Twins, so when they do have a chance they have to do there best to make it happen. They can start the rebuilding next year. Just my opinion.
It’s the Brew Crew, no doubt. /troll
It’s the Brew Crew, no doubt. /troll
Tigers.
Tigers.
Interesting idea, but once Penny is back the SP situation for the Cards isn’t too bad. The offense is what’s been killing them lately anyway. I’d rather see an impact bat at MI than a rental SP.
Interesting idea, but once Penny is back the SP situation for the Cards isn’t too bad. The offense is what’s been killing them lately anyway. I’d rather see an impact bat at MI than a rental SP.
Because of the depth of the draft in 2011 the center piece of any deal would have to be as great a #1 pic quality prospect so to me that would be a top 2 or 3 prospect plus the previous years 1st rounder with a cusp prospect at the lower levels.
Because of the depth of the draft in 2011 the center piece of any deal would have to be as great a #1 pic quality prospect so to me that would be a top 2 or 3 prospect plus the previous years 1st rounder with a cusp prospect at the lower levels.
Dodgers are insane not to move on Lee. They keep saving their top prospects (with notable exceptions of trading 2 top prospects for blake and sherrill…..yikes), but they are to a point where there is literally no room for any of them, and once they arrive, part of the current core of the team could be gone. Regardless of “ace” categorization of Lee or other pitchers on the staff, fact is they need an additional front line starter to advance in the playoffs. Losing in the NLCS three years in a row will not fly. If there was ever a time to give up a lot for a rental, this is it. Plus they have $60 million coming off the books next year, so why not give Lee a huge contract. Of course, its acceptable to take a pass if Colletti is actually willing to pull the trigger on Oswalt or Haren.
Which of their top prospects do you think is blocked?
For one, Dee Gordon isn’t exactly going to supplant Furcal. The Dodgers have long term players all around the diamond. Loney, DeWitt, Kemp, Ethier, Martin, not to mention Kershaw and Billingsley. Most of the Dodgers top prospects are starting pitchers, and they kind of block themselves. It wouldn’t be a bad thing to trade one or two promising pitching prospects out of 5 to dramatically improve the team’s chances of advancing in the playoffs. Now, if they had a top OF prospect waiting in the wings to replace Manny (not going to put Paul or Lambo in that category), that would be a different story – don’t trade them.
Gordon was rushed to Double-A and isn’t excelling there yet. Furcal might not be around long enough to block him. You didn’t name another prospect who’s actually blocked. The starting rotation has room for a prospect when the time comes.
For one, Dee Gordon isn’t exactly going to supplant Furcal. The Dodgers have long term players all around the diamond. Loney, DeWitt, Kemp, Ethier, Martin, not to mention Kershaw and Billingsley. Most of the Dodgers top prospects are starting pitchers, and they kind of block themselves. It wouldn’t be a bad thing to trade one or two promising pitching prospects out of 5 to dramatically improve the team’s chances of advancing in the playoffs. Now, if they had a top OF prospect waiting in the wings to replace Manny (not going to put Paul or Lambo in that category), that would be a different story – don’t trade them.
you need to meet Ned Colletti and Frank McCourt. They dont believe in doing anything that seems smart.
Even so, I dont know if an ace is what we need. We have one in Kershaw, and Kuroda is a pretty good #2. Billingsley has all the talent in the world. Padilla has come back off the DL on fire, holding the Yankees to 2 runs over 7 innings. And Ely has numbers that make him a #3-#4, and would be the #5. We need relievers
Kuroda is NOT a #2. He has never won 10 games and never come close to 200 innings. He’s a really solid guy to have middle to back of the rotation. At best he’s a #3, but on a good staff he’s really a #4. Kershaw will one day be an ace, and although he’s pitching like one right now, do you really want to rely on a 22 yr old as your guy to go toe to toe with Halladay, Lincecum, or Lee in a game 7? I think not. As for Billingsley, he does not have all the talent in the world. He’s a great #2 but has still been inconsistent. If he can turn it around though, he and Kershaw are still a solid 1,2 punch, but they still need to add another front line starter. Padilla on fire? hmm…not exactly. Ely is a very solid #5 and i wouldn’t be surprised if he turns into the #3 pitcher on the staff in 2011 or 2012. #1 priority needs to be another starting pitcher so they don’t rely on the inconsistencies of Padilla, Kuroda, and Billingsley manifesting themselves when it matters.
Really, wins rate where you are rated in a rotation? So Kershaw was a #4 last year because he only had 8 wins? Kuroda had a 3.06 ERA before facing the Yankees on Saturday, where his ERA rose to 3.27. His numbers are back with his FIP, xFIP and tERA. He is a VERY good #3, or solid #2. Wins dont say where you are in a rotation.
Kershaw… I trust against any opponent. Yesterday’s line against the Yankees, the best offense in baseball- 7 innings, 4 hits(2 singles by Jeter, 2 run HR by Arod, single by their LF who replaced Gardner), 0 WALKS, 5 Ks, 3 infield pop ups. He didnt allow a fly ball until Arod’s HR, and only 4 flyballs in the game. He is an ace and just dominated the best offense in baseball.
Billingsley doesnt have all the talent in the world? Are you crazy, or just making dumb statements? He was rated as an A- prospect and has a 3.63 career ERA. If you remove his injury riddled 09, it is 3.33. He is just 25, and has been in the majors for 5 years, and is a #2 right now, with borderline ace potential.
Padilla, since coming off the DL… against the Red Sox and Yankees… a 2 run, 7 inning outing vs the Yankees and a 4 run, 5 1/3 inning return from the DL vs the Sox. One meh start and one great one. On fire.. maybe not.. but showing he still has something left, yes.
Wins absolutely are not determinative, but they certainly play a role. Kershaw wasn’t our #4 starter last year. But he certainly wasn’t our ace, or even our #2. How could he be with such a strict pitch count? Kershaw, as this year, was the victim of pathetic run support. That said, wins go a long way in earning an ace label, particularly in the national league, where SPs often are lifted early for a pinch hitter. We’ve seen this with Kershaw this year as Torre has been willing to let him hit later in games because he is still pitching well enough to warrant running him out there for the 7th or 8th inning. Speaking of Kershaw, I would “trust” him against anyone in baseball. I’d “trust” a lot of people. But the odds are surely stacked against him if you run him out against Halladay, Lincecum, Lee in October. He’s a great pitcher and will probably win some Cy Youngs before he is done, but ace? Not at this point in his career (he’s surely the Dodgers top starter, however). This is a sentiment shared by Torre.
You seem big on individual games. Just curious, did you proclaim him a dominant ace when he was a rookie and would, from time to time, dominate great offenses? Does it go both ways? Were you calling for him to be bumped to the pen after he got lit up by the Brewers? Speaking of one game performances, I’m glad you agree with me about Padilla. He surely has something left, and is valuable at the back end of the rotation, but on fire? Well Chuck Haeger was “on fire” in April then.
I guess I might as well address your Billingsley remarks too. If A- prospect + 5 years experience + young + good ERA = all the talent in the world, well then let’s put Billingsley in a class with Strasberg, Lincecum, and Kershaw. Those guys have all the talent in the world, but Billingsley I don’t think is really in a class where you expect him to dominate the league for the next 10 years. I frankly don’t care what he was rated as a prospect. Scouts’ opinions from 2005 are wholly irrelevant at this point. Scott Elbert and Dallas MacPherson must have all the talent in the world too. Maybe they can enter the hall of fame with that clown the Padres took #1 a few years ago. He’s certainly the Dodgers #2, but on most playoff teams he’s probably a 3 at this point in his career because he can’t be counted on to pitch into the 7th every 5 days, and he’s still somewhat inconsistent. That being said, the Dodgers should hang onto him and hope he and Kershaw develop into a formidable 1,2 punch. As for you, its clear you are a huge Dodger fan and see the upside of all their young players, blindly clinging to their talent ceiling, while ignoring some of the obstacles that may prevent them from getting there.
Really, wins rate where you are rated in a rotation? So Kershaw was a #4 last year because he only had 8 wins? Kuroda had a 3.06 ERA before facing the Yankees on Saturday, where his ERA rose to 3.27. His numbers are back with his FIP, xFIP and tERA. He is a VERY good #3, or solid #2. Wins dont say where you are in a rotation.
Kershaw… I trust against any opponent. Yesterday’s line against the Yankees, the best offense in baseball- 7 innings, 4 hits(2 singles by Jeter, 2 run HR by Arod, single by their LF who replaced Gardner), 0 WALKS, 5 Ks, 3 infield pop ups. He didnt allow a fly ball until Arod’s HR, and only 4 flyballs in the game. He is an ace and just dominated the best offense in baseball.
Billingsley doesnt have all the talent in the world? Are you crazy, or just making dumb statements? He was rated as an A- prospect and has a 3.63 career ERA. If you remove his injury riddled 09, it is 3.33. He is just 25, and has been in the majors for 5 years, and is a #2 right now, with borderline ace potential.
Padilla, since coming off the DL… against the Red Sox and Yankees… a 2 run, 7 inning outing vs the Yankees and a 4 run, 5 1/3 inning return from the DL vs the Sox. One meh start and one great one. On fire.. maybe not.. but showing he still has something left, yes.
Kuroda is NOT a #2. He has never won 10 games and never come close to 200 innings. He’s a really solid guy to have middle to back of the rotation. At best he’s a #3, but on a good staff he’s really a #4. Kershaw will one day be an ace, and although he’s pitching like one right now, do you really want to rely on a 22 yr old as your guy to go toe to toe with Halladay, Lincecum, or Lee in a game 7? I think not. As for Billingsley, he does not have all the talent in the world. He’s a great #2 but has still been inconsistent. If he can turn it around though, he and Kershaw are still a solid 1,2 punch, but they still need to add another front line starter. Padilla on fire? hmm…not exactly. Ely is a very solid #5 and i wouldn’t be surprised if he turns into the #3 pitcher on the staff in 2011 or 2012. #1 priority needs to be another starting pitcher so they don’t rely on the inconsistencies of Padilla, Kuroda, and Billingsley manifesting themselves when it matters.
you need to meet Ned Colletti and Frank McCourt. They dont believe in doing anything that seems smart.
Even so, I dont know if an ace is what we need. We have one in Kershaw, and Kuroda is a pretty good #2. Billingsley has all the talent in the world. Padilla has come back off the DL on fire, holding the Yankees to 2 runs over 7 innings. And Ely has numbers that make him a #3-#4, and would be the #5. We need relievers
Dodgers are insane not to move on Lee. They keep saving their top prospects (with notable exceptions of trading 2 top prospects for blake and sherrill…..yikes), but they are to a point where there is literally no room for any of them, and once they arrive, part of the current core of the team could be gone. Regardless of “ace” categorization of Lee or other pitchers on the staff, fact is they need an additional front line starter to advance in the playoffs. Losing in the NLCS three years in a row will not fly. If there was ever a time to give up a lot for a rental, this is it. Plus they have $60 million coming off the books next year, so why not give Lee a huge contract. Of course, its acceptable to take a pass if Colletti is actually willing to pull the trigger on Oswalt or Haren.
I don’t buy this one. Everyone would love to have Cliff Lee, but surely the Cardinals know they would not be able to re-sign him and that they need to get as much production out of young/cheap players as possible over the next several years with all of the other big contracts on the team. I would rather see them aim for a middle-of-the-rotation type who can fill in for Penny/Lohse than to gun for an ace type who is beyond their means.
1) They re-signed Holliday.
2) They get two draft picks for Lee if he leaves.
3) Why go out of their way to acquire someone who isn’t a clear, strong improvement over Penny? (I know Penny’s been really good, but I’m going to bet on someone like Lee over him going forward.)
1) They re-signed Holliday.
2) They get two draft picks for Lee if he leaves.
3) Why go out of their way to acquire someone who isn’t a clear, strong improvement over Penny? (I know Penny’s been really good, but I’m going to bet on someone like Lee over him going forward.)
I don’t buy this one. Everyone would love to have Cliff Lee, but surely the Cardinals know they would not be able to re-sign him and that they need to get as much production out of young/cheap players as possible over the next several years with all of the other big contracts on the team. I would rather see them aim for a middle-of-the-rotation type who can fill in for Penny/Lohse than to gun for an ace type who is beyond their means.
According to Price, the Cardinals “may be it.” Or they may not be it.
According to me, the Rockies may be it.
I could only hope and pray that the Rockies would nut up and make a move like this. It would shift the balance of power in the NL West..or atleast mentally deal a huge blow to any other team facing them to have to deal with this rotation:
1) Jimenez
2) Lee
3) De Le Rosa
4) Hammel
5) Cook/Francis/Chacin/?
And if the bats decided to wake up..oh man..I could smell their 1st division title just thinking of it..
I could only hope and pray that the Rockies would nut up and make a move like this. It would shift the balance of power in the NL West..or atleast mentally deal a huge blow to any other team facing them to have to deal with this rotation:
1) Jimenez
2) Lee
3) De Le Rosa
4) Hammel
5) Cook/Francis/Chacin/?
And if the bats decided to wake up..oh man..I could smell their 1st division title just thinking of it..
According to Price, the Cardinals “may be it.” Or they may not be it.
According to me, the Rockies may be it.
Here’s an interesting question. Would the Mariners accept Aumont, Gillies, and Ramirez back for Lee? Gotta remember that there’s only two or three months of Lee and it seems like a better offer than some I’ve seen. If Amaro wants to be a great GM, which I am far from ready to deem, he should swallow his pride and throw out an offer. Plus from a PR standpoint (not wanting to get the fanbase too excited), they could be the mystery team. Although I agree that the Rockies are very likely to be the team. No one is trading their top prospect for 2 months of anyone.
Hell no we wouldn’t. Im still laughing that Amaro wanted those guys.
I’ll gladly take Shelby Miller and a couple B level guys for Lee.
Hell no we wouldn’t. Im still laughing that Amaro wanted those guys.
I’ll gladly take Shelby Miller and a couple B level guys for Lee.
Sounds like the Reds. I will make the call now. Pretty much the same headline from this winter with Chapman. The Reds were not mentioned then, but they were there. Lee makes as much sense as anyone to snag a guy like Lee and they have all kinds of ML ready talent.
I was thinking it could be the Reds too.
Then I got an even crazier idea-the Phillies. It’s the Phillies bringing him back!
I was thinking it could be the Reds too.
Then I got an even crazier idea-the Phillies. It’s the Phillies bringing him back!
Sounds like the Reds. I will make the call now. Pretty much the same headline from this winter with Chapman. The Reds were not mentioned then, but they were there. Lee makes as much sense as anyone to snag a guy like Lee and they have all kinds of ML ready talent.
There’s absolutely no way the Cardinals are in to get Lee. ONE, they don’t have the prospects. TWO, they’d likely have to get rid of Jaime Garcia or Shelby Miller to get him. It’s not going to happen.
Mystery team for Lee = Reds. They have the prospects to trade and salary to dump (Harang), and Lee would give them the needed boost to their rotation. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Harang and Travis Wood go in a trade to Seattle for Lee.
Sorry, the Cards just won’t be able to go out and get him, unless they want to get rid of their two best pitching prospects in the whole organization for half a season of Cliff Lee.
The mystery team may well be the Reds, but why in the hell would the Mariners want Harang, who makes $4.5 million MORE than Lee and is also a free agent at the end of the season?
If the Reds take care of some of the salary, why wouldn’t they? Next year he is likely NOT going to make as much as he has the previous few years, so they could sign him significantly less than Lee next year and also have a middle-rotation starter with Wood.
Not saying it’s a definite, but Harang or Arroyo is going to be unloaded this year, and I am placing best on Harang.
I just don’t think the Cards are likely to get him. Their rotation is pretty solid already with two potential Cy Young candidates. The pitching isn’t their problem, it’s their hitting not living up to expectations (ie. Holliday).
“Harang or Arroyo is going to be unloaded this year….”
That may be true, but neither will be unloaded as part of a Cliff Lee trade. Both are free agents with options (Harang $12.75M, Arroyo $11M) and $2M buyouts. The M’s are looking for something a little more long-term.
Maybe not with Harang or Arroy. However, the Reds do have the prospect depth. Possibly an Alonso and Wood deal? I could see that happening.
Jocketty has expressed the team is willing to take on Payroll if it means propelling and keeping them in the race this year. Cliff Lee would definitely do that for them.
Maybe not with Harang or Arroy. However, the Reds do have the prospect depth. Possibly an Alonso and Wood deal? I could see that happening.
Jocketty has expressed the team is willing to take on Payroll if it means propelling and keeping them in the race this year. Cliff Lee would definitely do that for them.
“Harang or Arroyo is going to be unloaded this year….”
That may be true, but neither will be unloaded as part of a Cliff Lee trade. Both are free agents with options (Harang $12.75M, Arroyo $11M) and $2M buyouts. The M’s are looking for something a little more long-term.
If the Reds take care of some of the salary, why wouldn’t they? Next year he is likely NOT going to make as much as he has the previous few years, so they could sign him significantly less than Lee next year and also have a middle-rotation starter with Wood.
Not saying it’s a definite, but Harang or Arroyo is going to be unloaded this year, and I am placing best on Harang.
I just don’t think the Cards are likely to get him. Their rotation is pretty solid already with two potential Cy Young candidates. The pitching isn’t their problem, it’s their hitting not living up to expectations (ie. Holliday).
There’s absolutely no way the Cardinals are in to get Lee. ONE, they don’t have the prospects. TWO, they’d likely have to get rid of Jaime Garcia or Shelby Miller to get him. It’s not going to happen.
Mystery team for Lee = Reds. They have the prospects to trade and salary to dump (Harang), and Lee would give them the needed boost to their rotation. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Harang and Travis Wood go in a trade to Seattle for Lee.
Sorry, the Cards just won’t be able to go out and get him, unless they want to get rid of their two best pitching prospects in the whole organization for half a season of Cliff Lee.
Miller would be nice in a Lee trade. But the M’s problems this year have not been pitching. Even without Lee at the beginning of the season the pitching staff was doing pretty good. It’s the bats or lack there of that have been the major issue. Whatever happens with Lee I hope the M’s get one or two high upside hitters in return.
Eh, I take whatever we can get. If it’s a high upside arm like Miller then great.
We’d be in great shape pitching depth wise going forward. The system would have Pineda, Miller, Paxton, Stanek, Walker, Robles, and Hensley. Obviously, Im assuming Paxton and Stanek sign (which Ive been led to believe they will).
M’s need to think about 2012. They will be freeing up major money at that point. Ichiro, Gutierrez, Ackley, and Figgins are the only hitters locked in. They would have a very young and talented rotation (also very cheap) and roughly 35 million to spend on hitters. They could easily make a run at Fielder or Gonzalez.
They are also going to have a Top 10 pick in the 2011 draft where they could grab a high impact college bat.
I would like to get a young hitter back, but I’m not turning down a package built around Shelby Miller.
Eh, I take whatever we can get. If it’s a high upside arm like Miller then great.
We’d be in great shape pitching depth wise going forward. The system would have Pineda, Miller, Paxton, Stanek, Walker, Robles, and Hensley. Obviously, Im assuming Paxton and Stanek sign (which Ive been led to believe they will).
M’s need to think about 2012. They will be freeing up major money at that point. Ichiro, Gutierrez, Ackley, and Figgins are the only hitters locked in. They would have a very young and talented rotation (also very cheap) and roughly 35 million to spend on hitters. They could easily make a run at Fielder or Gonzalez.
They are also going to have a Top 10 pick in the 2011 draft where they could grab a high impact college bat.
I would like to get a young hitter back, but I’m not turning down a package built around Shelby Miller.
Indeed. Allen Craig or Mark Hamilton would make more sense for the Mariners from the Cards than Miller does.
Indeed. Allen Craig or Mark Hamilton would make more sense for the Mariners from the Cards than Miller does.
hmmm, seems people where saying the exact same thing when the Holliday rumors started last year
hmmm, seems people where saying the exact same thing when the Holliday rumors started last year
Keep in mind Cards fans, if you do not sign Lee, he will be a Type A Free Agent meaning you will collect 2 high draft picks for him. No chance the Cards resign him so if it is Miller and a couple of other prospects for Lee and the two draft picks he will bring, I am all for it.
Keep in mind Cards fans, if you do not sign Lee, he will be a Type A Free Agent meaning you will collect 2 high draft picks for him. No chance the Cards resign him so if it is Miller and a couple of other prospects for Lee and the two draft picks he will bring, I am all for it.
Anyone but the Cardinals! Anyone!
braves. neither huddy nor jair have great peripherals. hanson’s been very inconsistent. lowe’s been ok. believe it or not, i kinda think they need lee.. as long as they dont send out the entire farm like they did for tex and mahay.
the rotation’s 14th in the league in strikeouts, 10th in innnings pitched, 9th in era.
i think if hanson wasn’t struggling so bad and jair was healthy then maybe i wouldnt even consider the bravos, but i wouldnt be surprised if theyve at least discussed adding lee for bobby’s last run.
Let the raping begin……….. some team is going to panic ( I’m thinking mets ) and give up way too much for an obvious rental, because we all know the yankees have a blank check waiting for him in december..
Let the raping begin……….. some team is going to panic ( I’m thinking mets ) and give up way too much for an obvious rental, because we all know the yankees have a blank check waiting for him in december..
Ludwick is hurt, and Carp is staying along with Colby. There is no way they give up Colby. Lee Wainwright and Carp sound amazing. But I do love the future of Shelby. Ahh either way Cardinals fans win.
Oh what could have been for the M’s this season if they would have been able to throw out a better lineup to begin the season. If only the M’s could score some dang runs. A starting rotation of:
Felix
Lee
Vargas
Fister
Bedard (possibly back July 6th)
Should/Could have been pretty sweet.
Oh what could have been for the M’s this season if they would have been able to throw out a better lineup to begin the season. If only the M’s could score some dang runs. A starting rotation of:
Felix
Lee
Vargas
Fister
Bedard (possibly back July 6th)
Should/Could have been pretty sweet.
mystery team almost always winds up being kenny williams simply doing his job and calling about all available players. And given the recent surge maybe he is trying to get cliff lee simply so the twins cant…Gavin floyd+daniel hudson+carlos toress would be a good start along with tyler flowers or doney lucy seeing as AJ is probably going to be kept after this season and konerko being the DH with vicedio being the full time 1st basemen..I know its nuts but it could happen
mystery team almost always winds up being kenny williams simply doing his job and calling about all available players. And given the recent surge maybe he is trying to get cliff lee simply so the twins cant…Gavin floyd+daniel hudson+carlos toress would be a good start along with tyler flowers or doney lucy seeing as AJ is probably going to be kept after this season and konerko being the DH with vicedio being the full time 1st basemen..I know its nuts but it could happen
Imagine what the Jays would look like with Lee atop their rotation. Lee/Marcum/Romero/Morrow/Cecil
Obviously they would have to add more, but…
i think its the yankees.they have the prospects,they want lee and this is the rotation
cc sabathia
cliff lee
aj burnett
andy pettite
javy vazquez/phil hughes
proably hughes cause he’s 10-1
yanks wont do it. they dont need to. theyll have him at the end of the year. why give up prospects? they didnt do it for johan. they wont do it for cliff lee.
yanks wont do it. they dont need to. theyll have him at the end of the year. why give up prospects? they didnt do it for johan. they wont do it for cliff lee.
Some of us Reds fans are trying to get our FO to pull the trigger on Lee. It could be us, he shut out Cueto 1-0 about a week ago. We have so much excess OF and pitching talent, we’re not going to be able to keep them anyway. We can outbid anyone except maybe Minnesota. And a rental works out perfect for us, we have plenty of good young SP, but who don’t match up against established team Aces right now. (Plus no way is Lee going to go from that cavern in Seattle to our band box as a FA.)…So many of our guys are near career years, the Cards are dangerous but wounded, while the rest of the division is in a funk. Our FO needs to pull the trigger sooner rather than later, and Mr. Lee looks like the best alternative. He would likely make us favorites to win the division and be very, very dangerous in post season. At least no way should they let the Cards nab him for some lousy top prospect.
“lousy top prospect”
Doesn’t that contradict itself?
Isn’t it obvious that the mystery team is the Orioles? They’re totally going to make a run at the AL Wild Card.
A’s! For only 2 or 3 million, Beane can convert a few prospects into two first rounders, then move Sheets and still not field a terrible team the rest of the year!
Isn’t it obvious that the mystery team is the Orioles? They’re totally going to make a run at the AL Wild Card.
I know this is pretty unlikely, but what about the Nationals? I mean, they’re in the market for pitching, but why not?
its the rangers!!!
no way!!