On Saturday, Jason Churchill of Prospect Insider looked at a bunch of potentially players who could help the Mariners' anemic offense. Ms GM Jack Zduriencik talked to the AP about the situation yesterday:
"I've made a tremendous amount of phone calls. I continue to make phone calls. I've made several phone calls in the last three or four days. But it's like hunting season. It's not hunting season right now. Nobody's selling."
White Sox GM Kenny Williams said something similar to Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times:
"I don't think anyone is really prepared to make any deals. And any interest expressed in any players out there who are impact guys has been done for quite some time. There really isn't much substance to anything at this stage of the season. Another 30 games, and you'll start to see talk pick up."
It's true that we shouldn't expect many big trades in May. I'm not sure why the Orioles and Royals wouldn't be willing to sell, but maybe they'd prefer to let the market develop.
The Mariners might be able to improve the offense by replacing Ken Griffey Jr. His .527 OPS is among the worst in baseball, but he's only had 63 plate appearances. Zduriencik says Griffey still has some time to find his way out of the slump: "You wait and see. You hope he gets on track. It's early. If he continues [to struggle] we will have to have some discussions with that."
It’s such an awkward situation with Griffey. He wasn’t very good last season, but they probably felt obligated to sign him since he didn’t want to retire yet, and now they feel like they have to play him even though he’s a terrible player. I think they need to just let him go, I’m sure he’ll understand.
Maybe they would trade for Paul Konerko, he could inject some pop into that lineup.
“I’m not sure why the Orioles and Royals wouldn’t be willing to sell, but maybe they’d prefer to let the market develop. ”
It’s probably more an issue of no one wants crap, especially with some decent FA still available sitting at home.
Billy Butler would fetch a nice haul, he’s only 23 though so it’s not like the Royals could get a ton of “young talent” for him
Griffey still has two more bobblehead nights to go … meanwhile, Mike Sweeney has none.
Exactly, monroe. 🙂
After the news of the last few days–the DFA/release of Byrnes and the addition of Langerhans and Wilson, and the release of Orta to make room for Langerhans on the 40-man roster–it was like there was a pink elephant in the room. That is to say, when was the MOST obvious move going to be made–that of DFA’ing/relesing Mike Sweeney, who doesn’t even have the fan appeal that Griffey has?
At this point, I’d take Sweeney’s outright release, along with the acquisition of a full-time DH such as Jack Cust, and the relegation of Griffey to occasional pinch hitter, keeping him around for now because of the fan appeal and upcoming bobble head promotions. It would be tacky to release him before then.
But this should be his(Griffey’s) final season in a Mariner uniform, unless he comes up with a way to make himself 10 years younger before the beginning of next season. 😉
Kila Ka’aihue makes all sorts of sense if the M’s are willing to dump Griffey/Sweeney and go with the Hawaiian at DH full time.
The Royals obviously want nothing to do with him, it could probably just be a “prospect swap.”
If the Royals don’t want to use him, like they’ve shown so far in his career, then they ought to let him play somewhere else, since he’s not good enough to play with the major league team, apparently.
This is an intriguing idea. The Royals already have Butler, Hosmer, and possibly Moustakas as guys who are first basemen. There is only so much they can rotate around to DH and corner OF spots. Kila is also sabermetrically-friendly with his high walk rate and good power numbers — which should be attractive to Jack Z. Dayton Moore, on the other hand, is a sucker for toolsy, but raw players. I’m sure they could find a suitable swap where both guys end up happy- maybe Kila for Halman? In terms of how they value players, the Mariners could get Kila cheap, and if it doesn’t work out they can go after a more established player when they become available. Personally, despite the saber-friendly stats, I have my doubts on Kila and have concerns that his slow bat may make him a AAAA player — but it’s definitely worth a shot. And we all know that for Kila, that shot isn’t coming in KC.
This is an intriguing idea. The Royals already have Butler, Hosmer, and possibly Moustakas as guys who are first basemen. There is only so much they can rotate around to DH and corner OF spots. Kila is also sabermetrically-friendly with his high walk rate and good power numbers — which should be attractive to Jack Z. Dayton Moore, on the other hand, is a sucker for toolsy, but raw players. I’m sure they could find a suitable swap where both guys end up happy- maybe Kila for Halman? In terms of how they value players, the Mariners could get Kila cheap, and if it doesn’t work out they can go after a more established player when they become available. Personally, despite the saber-friendly stats, I have my doubts on Kila and have concerns that his slow bat may make him a AAAA player — but it’s definitely worth a shot. And we all know that for Kila, that shot isn’t coming in KC.
But, but I thought ignoring offense while overvaluing defense was supposed to revolutionize the game.
lame
But, but I thought ignoring offense while overvaluing minimal defense upgrades was going to revolutionize the game.
Lame for the 2nd time. :p
Ty Wiggington might be a good fit. Maybe Brian Roberts, but that would be a much larger package. Luke Scott could also work.
I like Wiggington, too. A RH DH bat that can hit would be wonderful, and it’s not like he’d cost a ton.
HMMM….a return of Raul Ibanez?
Hehe I kid, probably too much money and not hitting enough to interest Jack Z right now, but it would solve SOO many problems for the Phillies. Brown probably SHOULD have more time in the minors, but he’s doing well so far – .349/.411/.651 8-2B 3-HR 8-BB 14-K at AA Reading.
Ibanez has a no-trade, but he always said he loved Seattle…and losing Ibanez for next year ($12.1m), even if they had to eat almost all his money for this season and got little to nothing in return, would give them a puncher’s chance at resigning Werth.
The Mariners can have Bill Hall back…
Please?
Bill Hall sucks. I’m glad we no longer have to put up with him in Milwaukee…
No.
What about Tejada out of Baltimore and Dunn out of Washington? The Mariners don’t have much in the way of talent, but what they do have is money. They can absorb larger contracts to compensate for the lack of talent and both guys are free agents at the end of the year.
What? Are you serious? Not much in the way of talent? Let me guess your team resides in the AL East.
??? Seattle’s farm system really doesn’t have much talent. Most of it is in the low minors which isn’t worth all that much in trades because of how flaky those kinds of prospects are. Seattle cant empty out what is left of the cupboard without severely hurting the long term success of the franchise.
Ok, for one, I have not or would not ever advocate “emptying the cupboard”. So, would you like me to prove you wrong in terms of pitching prospects at the AA level(Mauricio Robles, Michael Pineda, Nick Hill, Josh Fields). . . .or maybe you would like to hear about AAA/MLB starting pitching (Luke French, Garrett Olson, Jason Vargas, Ian Snell), perhaps you want to talk position players who are sitting around at AA/AAA (Michael Saunders, Mike Carp, Greg Halman, Alex Liddi, Carlos Triunfel, Carlos Peguero). Anyhow, you are insane to say that the M’s don’t have much talent down through the farm. Next time you think about making an assinine, stereotypical, AL East remark about a team, please do your self the favor to STOP, RESEARCH, THINK, and finally most importantly REALIZE THAT YOU ARE PROBABLY WRONG!
I by no means advocate pulling a Bavasiesque dump of prospects for a rental, but Big Z DOES have the means to pull off any trade he so desires.
but but but the mariners had the best offseason of any team and are going to make the world series!!!! /bandwagonm’sfans
it’s not like the AL West is running away from them.
It is people like you that irritate me to no end on the comment sections. Because, if your team isn’t discussed it is the end of the world. So what, they had a good off season, who cares. It’s nice for once to see other teams making moves and trying to compete, god forbid anyone other than NYY, BOS or any of the large markets try to do anything.
The sad thing is, Seattle has lost about 6 games because of their offense and they are still only 2.5 games out. I would put this pitching staff against any offense in the AL, but there isn’t a pitching staff outside of Baltimore that is bad enough to allow the M’s to score.
The sad thing is, Seattle has lost about 6 games because of their offense and they are still only 2.5 games out. I would put this pitching staff against any offense in the AL, but there isn’t a pitching staff outside of Baltimore that is bad enough to allow the M’s to score.
I said it in the off season when they were done, they were going to need more offense.
M’s could literally use an offensive upgrade at almost every single position.
I figure the M’s will go for rebound guys on short term deals and bad teams looking to sell already. So guys like Austin Kearns, Ty Wigginton and Jose Guillen are three guys I could the Mariners going after. Kearns in particular seems to make a lot of sense for the Mariners.
Not sure how much longer that leash on Griffey is going to be. They already cut loose on Byrnes, and Griffey sadly enough hasn’t been a whole lot better.
common jays, sell the mariners on the benefits of vernon wells.
love to see the M’s make a run at Josh Willingam. A good, solid RH bat that could be our leftfielder & give Kotchmann a day or two off a week.
I know the Nats are off to a decent start but I can’t imagine would be too high for a 30+ year old guy like him.
I know a guy with an 800 OPS, that also plays great in the field, but he is not your “prototypical” big bat…David DeJesus. Put him in Left, and Seattle’s defense and offense get better. All we ask for is either League, Lowe, White, or Kelly, plus a mid level prospect.
I would say you have a deal. You can have White, and I am sure we can work something out on the mid level prospect! I would love to see DeJesus in Safeco.
You can have White for DeJesus ANY DAY. I’d love to see the Mariners screw the Royals in a trade like that, yet again 🙂
One of League, Lowe, White, or Kelley? Yeah, that’s absurdly, absurdly dumb for the Royals. But then, I wouldn’t put it beyond Dayton Moore.
I don’t see the Natinals extending Dunn, so I think he’ll be high on Big Z’s wish list. The man was born to be a DH and has more than enough power to jack balls out of Safeco…
I wouldn’t mind the Mets selling high on Francouer for a pitcher
Sheffield or Dye as immediate upgrades? Certainly they can’t do worse than Griffey…
It is interesting to see these “Pitching and defense!” teams like Chicago, Seattle, and Boston pay so dearly for neglecting offense…
It’s not neglecting offense, it’s A. not having it to begin with, and B. not wanting to overpay for it. For the M’s, improving the offense is a process that will probably take a few years.
I’d argue offense was not overpaid this off-season, and in fact defense was grossly overpaid.
Look no further than Bay’s relatively small $60m deal, presumably because of shoddy defense; Thome’s $2m bargain, presumably because of zero defensive value; and the lack of interest in defensively-challenged but offensively decent bats in Dye and Shef.
I’ve said Mike Lowell since beggining of the season. Lowell can play 1B, 3B, and DH. Put him at DH and occasionally cover for !B and 3B. Why not go for Adam Dunn. I think people forgets that he hits 40 hrs every god damn year. He is a offensive beast. Except for the K’s.
The Mariners are not going to want to release Griffey it would be a bad PR move. Perhaps he can be talked into retiring and they can make a day to honor his number and maybe retire it. I still remember him playing for the san bernardino spirit in 1988. It was like a man playing against boys. See you at the hall of fame griff.
Posted this on another thread, but it’s relevant here as well…
M’s best bet to revamp the offense is to dump Sweeney, relegate Griffey to a bench role, move Bradley to full-time DH and bring in a real LF to play full-time. The defense aspect can’t be ignored; once Erik Bedard is healthy, the M’s will have at least 3 lefties in the rotation (Bedard, Lee and RRS, maybe Vargas.) Right now, the left side of the defense is sketchy (apart from Jack Wilson) with Jose Lopez making the transition to 3B and Bradley a disaster in LF. That doesn’t make sense for a team that is preaching pitching and defense. Getting a real LF mitigates that weakness.
The replacement shouldn’t be internal, as Michael Saunders is only hitting .136 and Greg Halman is a strikeout machine. Brad Nelson is a DH who can play the OF, but that won’t help the team.
There are 3 strong candidates for trade, once teams realize they’re out of it:
1) Brade Hawpe (Colorado): they have an abundance of outfielders (Seth Smith would get the full-time RF job), Hawpe can hit for power and average, he’s left-handed, and he can be a free agent after the season (there’s an expensive option for next year which won’t get picked up), so he probably won’t cost an arm an a leg to acquire. He’s currently on the DL with a quad problem, but he’s expected to return early next week. He’s adequate defensively, so he’s probably the best overall candidate.
2) Cody Ross (Florida): the Marlins are tanking, and they may start divesting themselves of big contracts (Uggla, Cantu, etc.) Ross is arbitration-eligible next year and would command a pretty big raise, and with Brett Carroll on hand as an internal replacement, Ross could be expendable. He definitely hits for power and is probably the best overall defensively of the candidates. But he’s right-handed (which may not play well at Safeco) and he doesn’t hit for average or get on base particularly well.
3) Rick Ankiel (Kansas City): with a $6 million mutual option for next year, one can safely assume that he won’t be with the Royals next year. They’d probably love to find someone to take that contract. Ankiel offers the highest power potential of the group, and is a lefty. He’s gotten off to a horrible start this year, though, and his defense has slipped (though to be fair, he’s a better corner outfielder than center fielder anyway.) Of course, the M’s could always use him as an emergency pitcher in an extra innings game…
If defense weren’t an issue, Adam Dunn and Jermaine Dye enter the discussion… but the Nats won’t give up Dunn for nothing (even as an expiring contract) and Dye hasn’t played since the end of last season, which ended miserably for him.
I definitely like the idea of getting Wigginton, but the Orioles have him in the lineup everyday right now with Roberts out. Maybe once he’s back and healthy, Baltimore will free him up for trade.
There’s a reason we didn’t re-sign Ibanez in the first place… he’s old and at this point is only a DH; the M’s already have too many of those on the roster.
As for Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez… not gonna happen. Too much to give up, and we don’t have it.
As a Rockie fan I can see Hawpe for Lee trade. Both are gone to FA after this year (Hawpe’s option I doubt will be picked up). Both are in position of strengths and in position of needs for the other. (or in other words, a trade would improve both teams). I can see some seeing Lee as a pitcher being more valuable, and the Rockies might have to throw in some thing extra. But not much…the Rockies think they are fine right now.
Hawpe for C.Lee? I know you have a hometown Rockies fan bias, but that isn’t even close. The Rockies will give Hawpe up for much less than that.
awww….but the Rockies have no need to move Hawpe. So why should they? And why should they if it hurts the team for 2010?
No offense I would be very careful taking a hitter out of Colorado… After signing Jeff Cirillo Hitters coming out of Colorado have scared me. Not saying that they can’t hit its just a red flag.
CO_redhawk back at you with the M’s don’t have to trade Lee. They will be more willing to take the draft picks unless a great deal comes there way.
IF they part with Lee I could see it in a three way deal or 2 high prospect and mid level.
awww….but the Rockies have no need to move Hawpe. So why should they? And why should they if it hurts the team for 2010?
Agree with much of what you posted, but when exactly do the Mariners begin to realize they are out of contention? I wouldn’t wait for the Rockies. They did make the playoffs last year and in 2007 with a late run. That being said, I think they’d be open to trading Hawpe, but to call him an adequate outfielder defensively is a stretch. He would, in fact, be in the discussion for the worst outfielder in baseball. Statistically, he is much worse than Ibanez. The Mariners would probably be better off with Milton Bradley out there.
The M’s won’t be out of contention for at least another month; the AL West is the most winnable (is that really a word?) division in baseball. They’re 3 games under .500 but only 2.5 games out of the division lead. So they have some leeway… but it’s running out fast. Come mid-June, their schedule gets much tougher, so they still need to be in the race on June 15 to realistically have a chance to get to the playoffs. And in a short series, a top 3 of Felix, Lee and Bedard (if all are healthy) could be tough to beat. The problem is, they have to score runs, which means they need to upgrade the offense as soon as possible. I’ll have to take your word on Hawpe; his UZR isn’t that bad. But Bradley is a disaster out there. He has bad knees to begin with, but he never gets a good track on the ball in the air. I’d rather have Hawpe in LF with Bradley at DH than Bradley in LF with Griffey at DH, that’s for sure. Besides, Gutierrez can help cut down on Hawpe’s defensive deficiencies.
If the M’s go the other way, though, and “dump”, then Lee and Bedard become their 2 biggest chips. Kotchman, who’s arbitration-eligible after the season, could also be traded for prospects. Bradley is an albatross contract that no one will take on, even if we pick up most of it.
But Jose Lopez is almost definitely on the outs in Seattle; he wasn’t used in any of their promotional materials for the 2010 season (i.e., commericals, giveaways, season tickets, etc.), which is a major telltale sign. He doesn’t have a great glove at any position, which doesn’t play into the M’s pitching-and-defense strategy. Moving him away from 2B was a big mistake; he double and triple pumps on throws, which is why he was moved from SS to 2B in the first place. Lopez would probably thrive offensively outside of Safeco Field (as many right-handed hitter do once they leave Seattle.) He also has a very affordable contract for next year, which means they could get a lot in return. They’re trying to fast-track Dustin Ackley as a 2B, so Figgins could move back to 3B (where he belongs.) So the signs are definitely there for a Lopez departure.
The big surprise dump trade, though, could be Aardsma. The M’s have a bullpen full of right-handed flamethrowers, and Aardsma kind of came out of the blue for them last year. The M’s might want to cash him in fast before the league catches up to him. They have Lowe to slide into the closer’s spot; those who say League would get the job are just wrong.
We in Chicago got a firsthand look of Bradley’s outfield adventures. But if any team can afford to put a substandard defensive LF’er, whether it’s Bradley, Hawpe, Ibanez…it’s the Ms. I think they’ll turn it around before June. They may not have a great offense, but it’s better than what they’ve shown early in the season. And you’re right, they are in the right division to be able to wait and see for a bit longer. I don’t think anybody is going to run away with the AL West.
We in Chicago got a firsthand look of Bradley’s outfield adventures. But if any team can afford to put a substandard defensive LF’er, whether it’s Bradley, Hawpe, Ibanez…it’s the Ms. I think they’ll turn it around before June. They may not have a great offense, but it’s better than what they’ve shown early in the season. And you’re right, they are in the right division to be able to wait and see for a bit longer. I don’t think anybody is going to run away with the AL West.
“It’s not hunting season right now. Nobody’s selling.”
Jack Z may be a genius when it comes to baseball, but it doesn’t extend to his use of metaphor.
I don’t see Mike Lowell as a fit for Seattle but Kenny Williams should be on the phone to Boston to get Lowell and DFA Nix or send him down to AAA. I believe he has an option remaining. Lowell as DH, back up at 1st and platoon with the lefty Teahen at 3rd. An outfield of Quentin, Rios, A. Jones, Pierre and Kotsay is solid. Have Lowell be the back up at 1st in front of Kotsay to get him more at bats and DH Lowell when A. Jones is playing in the field. White Sox are the one match I see for Mike Lowell and his bat in the line up adds some nice pop and compliments the lefty, Teahen, at 3rd.
“Lee is a rental, but if the Cubs fall out of contention he should be available as the club and player both are saying they will not negotiate a new contract during the season.”
Derrek Lee? If the Mariners are waiting for the Cubs or other teams to fall out of contention, it may just be too late. The Mariners may find themselves as the team that’s out of contention by then. It’s a tough situation, they could probably get someone like Jermaine Dye or make a trade for a lesser player like Mike Lowell or Luke Scott right now, but it’s debatable whether those are the kind of guys who will make the kind of impact they need. Jack Z will have to get pretty creative here if the bats don’t turn in the next few weeks.
I cant believe getting Casey Kotchman, Milton Bradley and Chone Figgens didn’t bring a mulititude of offense to Seattle….lol are you kidding me, Should of stayed with Branyan and made smart moves….sign Jermaine Dye for Gosh sakes and can Griff
The offense hurts more that Milton Bradley is missing. He was actually hitting a bit. Ofcourse, Bradley is up to his usual tricks. He decides he is not helping the team after a strikeout. He packs his things up in his locker and leaves the stadium during the game. A HUGE NO-NO in baseball and the sporting world.
I can sit back and laugh at every M’s fan and non M’s fan who said Jack Z was a genius in getting Bradley that it was a steal for the M’s…Chicago fans are racist…Bradley will perform under less pressure…it’s not Milton’s fault, it was the Cubs…on and on. Ha!
He pulled lots of ‘junk’ in other cities he played in and people want to forget or believe what they want to believe. Seattle, good luck with Milton Bradley! You can add your city to the list.
derek lee, chris Snyder, and michael saunders all come to mind when I look at the M’s future. In reality, maybe one or two of those could be made, with saunders i mean a promotion to replace griff. Griffey feels like he can produce with a contending team; sure he wants to have fun, but only with a team without as many distractions as the M’s have. Do what’s right for Griffey.
I think potentially selling teams such as the Royals or the Orioles are waiting for the contending teams to reach the point where marginal contributions are the difference between post-season play or staying at home. Remember that many “marginal” players such as Dave Roberts or José Vizcaíno have become postseason heroes during their short stints with the teams that traded for them. Considering that, this teams could end up having a good-to-great return for players like Podsednik, Wigginton, J. Guillen, Tejada, Ankiel and the like. They just have to wait for injuries and for current small inconveniences to become pressing needs.
The Kila Ka’aihue for Halman trade sounds actually wonderful for both organizations. I’d love for this to happen soon, and I don’t see any sense in delaying it. If the Royals get stubborn about Ka’aihue, I’d like to see Russell Branyan back with the Ms. Add Chris Snyder, a power hitting first baseman (A-Gon or Derrek Lee) and the return of Erik Bedard and the Mariners are legitimate World Series contenders.
Alex Gordon is another subject. Even if his possible return isn’t expected to grow on the minors, there aren’t actually many teams with a mid to long term hole in third base. Obe of those teams would be the Twins, but I don’t think that the Royals are open to the move, given the possibility that Gordon might turn around in another organization that has lower expectations from him and that the Twins are divisional rivals.