The Tigers officially signed outfielder Johnny Damon to a one-year, $8MM deal today. The contract contains a no-trade clause and no deferred money.
Damon reportedly turned down two offers to return to the Yankees this offseason, the first of which was worth $14MM over two years. The White Sox, Braves, Rays, and Blue Jays were also in the mix for the Scott Boras client.
The 36-year-old Damon hit .282/.365/.489 with a career high tying 24 homers in 2009, which was the best offensive output of his career in terms of OPS+ (126). UZR wasn't kind to his play in the field, saying he was worth -9.2 runs defensively during the course of the season. The Tigers seemed to be headed toward a rebuilding year when they traded Curtis Granderson, but they subsequently added Damon and Jose Valverde.
Yahoo's Tim Brown first reported the agreement on Saturday.
Finally we can stop the Damon talk.
Now I guess we can follow through with Baseball and life on an every day basis.
Dombrowski’s ebay strategy:
“Damn, that other guy outbid me by 1 penny for that ironing board I’ve been trying to get! I’ll show him by bidding….(Insert Dr. Evil voice here)….one hundred…million dollars!”
Alright! Now we can go through this again next year!
Thank god it ends.
Not so fast! It’s only a one year deal. We’ll probably be going through this again next year.
congratulations, detroit. your offseason makes no sense.
Haha I agree… it’ll look ok if Scherzer and Jackson turn out to be a big deal.
Yes it does make sense, the Tigers were looking for these things this offseason:
1. Bullpen help
2. An infusion of youth
3. A veteran, left-handed hitter
The Tigers signed Jose Valverde using the money they would have on Rodney and Lyon, bullpen help, check.
Detroit wasn’t trading Granderson and Jackson to shed payroll. If they were trading to shed payroll, they’d have traded someone like Ordonez, Bonderman, or Robertson for whatever they could possibly get while eating some salary but hoping the other team takes some. Obviously, they were selling high on two players they felt either wouldn’t replicate their 2009 numbers or felt they had hit their cieling. With that trade, the Tigers got Max Scherzer, Daniel Schlereth, Phile Coke, and Austin Jackson.
Infusion of youth (and even more bullpen help), check.
The Tigers let go of Aubrey Huff and signed Johnny Damon with the money they would have spent on Polanco.
Veteran, left-handed hitter, check.
This why the Tiger’s offseason makes sense, at least to me. Hope that helps.
1. bullpen help:
out: fernando rodney, $5.5MM
in: jose valverde, $7MM
2. infusion of youth: dude, the just signed johnny damon. so this argument is inconsistent at best.
3. a veteran left-handed bat: curtis granderson has been a part of 6 big league seasons. oh, and he bats left handed.
so what was your point again? it just doesn’t make any sense because they 1) didn’t save much money and 2) did get much better. they, at best, just shuffled the deck. after an incredibly active offseason they might win the exact same number of games as they did last year, just with different players that don’t make sense to anyone.
1. out: fernando rodney, brandon lyon
in: Jose Valverde, Daniel Schlereth, Phil Coke
2. You forget about Austin Jackson (23) vs. Granderson (29 in March), and Scott Sizemore (25) vs. Polanco (34). Also Schlereth and Coke are younger than Rodney and Lyon.
3. Why is everyone so high on Granderson? The man couldn’t hit lefties, struck out a ton, his average took a nosedive, lost his basestealing ability, and watching every game last season, his defensive got progessively worse over the course of the season to go with his lackluster arm. My point is that they filled their needs without going over budget. They traded away for the future while still contending NOW. Winning as many games as they did last year might win the division. Why don’t you try and dig a little deeper instead of bashing my post right away.
Personally, watching Granderson at bats was absolutely killing me by the end of last season. He took a big step back in his approach last year (not to mention his defense, highlight reel catches aside), and he now looks more like a completely evolved, deeply flawed player than a work in progress.
And I don’t know if the guy you responded to has ever seen Rodney pitch, but 1.5 million completely understates the difference between his and Valverde’s skill level. I’m not going to defend the Damon signing, but I see where they’re coming from: at the very least, it will increase ticket sales.
1. out: fernando rodney, brandon lyon
in: Jose Valverde, Daniel Schlereth, Phil Coke
2. You forget about Austin Jackson (23) vs. Granderson (29 in March), and Scott Sizemore (25) vs. Polanco (34). Also Schlereth and Coke are younger than Rodney and Lyon.
3. Why is everyone so high on Granderson? The man couldn’t hit lefties, struck out a ton, his average took a nosedive, lost his basestealing ability, and watching every game last season, his defensive got progessively worse over the course of the season to go with his lackluster arm. My point is that they filled their needs without going over budget. They traded away for the future while still contending NOW. Winning as many games as they did last year might win the division. Why don’t you try and dig a little deeper instead of bashing my post right away.
1. bullpen help:
out: fernando rodney, $5.5MM
in: jose valverde, $7MM
2. infusion of youth: dude, the just signed johnny damon. so this argument is inconsistent at best.
3. a veteran left-handed bat: curtis granderson has been a part of 6 big league seasons. oh, and he bats left handed.
so what was your point again? it just doesn’t make any sense because they 1) didn’t save much money and 2) did get much better. they, at best, just shuffled the deck. after an incredibly active offseason they might win the exact same number of games as they did last year, just with different players that don’t make sense to anyone.
Finally someone who makes sense. I am so tired of hearing they were just trying to shed payroll and there offseason makes no sense.
Finally someone who makes sense. I am so tired of hearing they were just trying to shed payroll and there offseason makes no sense.
Yes it does make sense, the Tigers were looking for these things this offseason:
1. Bullpen help
2. An infusion of youth
3. A veteran, left-handed hitter
The Tigers signed Jose Valverde using the money they would have on Rodney and Lyon, bullpen help, check.
Detroit wasn’t trading Granderson and Jackson to shed payroll. If they were trading to shed payroll, they’d have traded someone like Ordonez, Bonderman, or Robertson for whatever they could possibly get while eating some salary but hoping the other team takes some. Obviously, they were selling high on two players they felt either wouldn’t replicate their 2009 numbers or felt they had hit their cieling. With that trade, the Tigers got Max Scherzer, Daniel Schlereth, Phile Coke, and Austin Jackson.
Infusion of youth (and even more bullpen help), check.
The Tigers let go of Aubrey Huff and signed Johnny Damon with the money they would have spent on Polanco.
Veteran, left-handed hitter, check.
This why the Tiger’s offseason makes sense, at least to me. Hope that helps.
I disagree. I really liked what we were doing up until this move… the Granderson/Jackson trade was awesome. The traded those guys at the right time to maximize their value, and got a very good haul. I was skeptical on the Valverde signing at first, but if… IF Zumaya can stay healthy this year and Perry keeps improving, they substanially upgraded their bullpen. Throw in Schlereth and Coke and I really like how the pen looks. They let Polanco go to make room for a top prospect, so I’m okay with that. They also have a number of young arms on the way, led by Crosby and Turner.
I just cant understand why everyone thinks Damon is going to help us… and at 8M? No way… wasnt smart, and we didnt NEED him that badly.
Agree, But now the theory is, If the Tigers shed payroll, the hope is to gain back that payroll back. Which makes no sence.
I can only imagine how much BorASS begged Detroit to throw in an extra million dollars to justify Damon not signing with the Yanks for 7 mil. Detroit, you’ve officially been pimped…
People really “like” you. You’re my hero.
You’re my hero!
dog where have you been? whats up?
Lol, he’s gonna be SO bad.
LOL – basing that on anything? Last check Johnny Damon becomes the Tigers best outfielder. Coming from a Mets fan I would expect to you understand.
The fact that he hit 7 home runs away from Yankee Stadium.
His OPS was nearly identical in 08 as it was in 09. It was also nearly as high in 06. For 3 out of the past 4 years his OPS has been between 836 and 854. Only one of those years was in the new Yankee Stadium. Damon has been a model of consistency.
He doesn’t have to hit 25 HR’s to post a very solid OPS. The guy makes up for it with a higher average and more doubles. I just can’t understand why would think that he will be “SO bad”.
My projection – Damon will go 290/370/460. Hit 35 doubles and steal 20 bases. Most teams would be thrilled to get that kind of production.
christ. check the other stats. his RBI, hits, runs, and avg were nearly identical home and away. double his away home runs for a full year and hes still got 14 which il take. the guy can still hit, and thats all were asking from him, nobody expects him to belt out 20+ homers, just get on base because lord knows thats something we couldnt do last season.
I hope its for $5mil or less
$8 mil? what an awful deal. The Sox and Braves never even hit the $5mil mark and they almost doubled it with no other bidders.
So Detroit bids against itself and adds an additional million to a 7 million dollar offer. Plus a no trade clause. Plus all money up front, none deferred. Is Damon worth this in Comerica Park? No.
I’m glad KW pulled out of this and didn’t get sucked into the Boras side show. He got Detroit to really overpay for Damon and save 6 million for signing a much better player down the road…
$8 mil? what an awful deal. The Sox and Braves never even hit the $5mil mark and they almost doubled it with no other bidders.
As a Braves fan I say:
wooooooooo!!!
Bring on MattyD!
1. Basically traded Granderson for Damon
2. Damon didn’t want to play in DET, announced pubicly.
3. Detroit is paying Mags 20 mill this year right??
DET = FAIL
1. No they didn’t, they got Jackson and Phil Coke. Granderson is terrible against lefties, strikes out a ton, and has a lackluster arm. Jackson will be playing center, not Damon.
2. Damon never publically announced he didn’t want to go to DET, if anything, I had more reason to believe he wanted to play in Detroit. Plus, when he comes to DET and sees the loyal fanbase and the great atmosphere of Comerica Park, he will come to love Detroit.
3. No, they’re paying him $18 mil, get it right.
cqsox = FAIL
Wrong if he wanted Detroit he wouldn’t have waited two weeks to sign their deal on top of the fact that Rosenthal said Damon and his wife didn’t want Detroit….your argument holds no water
Wrong if he wanted Detroit he wouldn’t have waited two weeks to sign their deal on top of the fact that Rosenthal said Damon and his wife didn’t want Detroit….your argument holds no water
Wow…you are saying Granderson has a lackluster arm??? I have seen Johnny Damon play alot in 09 and he looked LOST, not to mention those lolly pop throws from the OF. No really, it was horrible. Still 18 million for Mags is bad too. Detroit made no sense this year, last year, the year before, etc.
The loyal fanbase? There were a lot of fans in ’06 when they were winning, and then people started falling off the bandwagon soon after. There are a select few that actually cheer for them in the good times and the bad times, but mostly they are fair-weather.
1. No they didn’t, they got Jackson and Phil Coke. Granderson is terrible against lefties, strikes out a ton, and has a lackluster arm. Jackson will be playing center, not Damon.
2. Damon never publically announced he didn’t want to go to DET, if anything, I had more reason to believe he wanted to play in Detroit. Plus, when he comes to DET and sees the loyal fanbase and the great atmosphere of Comerica Park, he will come to love Detroit.
3. No, they’re paying him $18 mil, get it right.
cqsox = FAIL
Maggs is making 18mm in 2k10
Maggs is making 18mm in 2k10
0 for 3.
0 for 3.
1. Detroit traded Granderson for Jackson. Damon puts Raburn on the bench, doesn’t replace Jackson.
2. Pure speculation.
3. $18M. He was their hottest hitter from the All-Star break on and they were in a pennant race so they had to let the option vest. Only thing they did wrong was blowing it down the stretch.
You = fail.
1. Detroit traded Granderson for Jackson. Damon puts Raburn on the bench, doesn’t replace Jackson.
2. Pure speculation.
3. $18M. He was their hottest hitter from the All-Star break on and they were in a pennant race so they had to let the option vest. Only thing they did wrong was blowing it down the stretch.
You = fail.
If anyone thinks they traded Grandy for Damon you have no idea what is going on within our organization. I dont care where the dude wanted to play, now that hes here and were about to pay him 8 mil he better play his tail off for us. And Mags is getting 18 million this year I believe.
And don’t say fail… makes you look stupid
If anyone thinks they traded Grandy for Damon you have no idea what is going on within our organization. I dont care where the dude wanted to play, now that hes here and were about to pay him 8 mil he better play his tail off for us. And Mags is getting 18 million this year I believe.
And don’t say fail… makes you look stupid
1.basically traded edwin for austin jackson, coke, schlereth, and scherzer by that logic
2.like the one source said in a post a few days ago, theres so much BS out there that very little said in this site during these contract talks is believable
3.maggs hit .375 in the 2nd half last year
sounds pretty good to me
1.basically traded edwin for austin jackson, coke, schlereth, and scherzer by that logic
2.like the one source said in a post a few days ago, theres so much BS out there that very little said in this site during these contract talks is believable
3.maggs hit .375 in the 2nd half last year
sounds pretty good to me
His tweet says near agreement. A little bit of a stretch to say they are going to sign him huh?
wow, really great point, steve espinosa.
wow, really great point, steve espinosa.
Praise Jesus, Johnny found work. His wife and kids are blessed to have a husband and father who is willing to keep fighting the good fight in pursuit of a better life for them even in this troubled economy. No more Ramen dinners children, Daddy found work!
Praise Jesus, Johnny found work. His wife and kids are blessed to have a husband and father who is willing to keep fighting the good fight in pursuit of a better life for them even in this troubled economy. No more Ramen dinners children, Daddy found work!
I guess no one here is a Tiger’s fan. This move does make sense for a couple of reasons: first, the only left-handed bat in the lineup other than Damon is Carlos Guillen, a switch hitter, second, the Tigers have no legitimate no. 2 hitter, which Damon can bring to Detroit, and third, this is a one-year deal, allowing Detroit to go after better outfielders (Crawford, Werth) next offseason. I’m not saying I’m completely for this, as it takes away from the playing time of Raburn and Thomas, two players I really like defensively (and Raburn offensively), but I don’t think this is a terrible move by any means. And how does DET = fail when they traded Granderson, lost Polanco, Rodney, and Lyon but are still legitimate contenders in the AL Central? I, for one, am excited to see the 2010 Detroit Tigers, bring on baseball! š
Me too, I am glad to see it is only for a year. Good point on the Crawford and Worth signings(possible). This is certainly a sign that Mike Illitch wants to stay in contention and is willing to throw money away to make an effort. To bad for Raburn, but if Ajax doesn’t work out right away either he or Damon could play center.
Finally, a Detroit fan who doesn’t remind me of Chicken Little. I’ve been very happy with this off-season. I’m tired… TIRED of all the people out there who feel they have Detroit figured out. Those who saw the trades of Granderson and Edwin as only being made as financial moves and completely ignore the fact that A) they both sh*t the bed the second half of the season, B) both are quite overrated no matter how likable a person Curtis is, and C) the return they got was quite impressive, especially when looking at facts A and B. If people want to say they “basically traded Granderson for Damon,” so be it. Just don’t forget that means the Tigers traded Edwin Jackson for Scherzer, Schlereth, Austin Jackson, and Phil Coke.
I’m more excited to see the Tigers this year than I was last year at this time. Younger, stronger pitching, some promising young players to start following their careers (Sizemore, Avila, Jackson, Schlereth), and of course one of the top 5 pitchers and hitters in the entire league (Verlander, Cabrera).
People outside Detroit have never tried to understand what the Tigers are doing. We’re a Midwest town; who cares. Seeings how we’re not on a coast, they could care less about really understanding what the Tigers do. And then they treat Tigers fans like they know more about the team than they do. Simply ridiculous.
People outside Detroit have never tried to understand what the Tigers are doing. We’re a Midwest town; who cares. Seeings how we’re not on a coast, they could care less about really understanding what the Tigers do. And then they treat Tigers fans like they know more about the team than they do. Simply ridiculous.
completely agree. damons contract doesnt look so bad when you compare it to 10 mil for beltre and 15 for 2 years from mike cameron. the central just got a lot tighter and there is a chance the tigers could be serious contenders come playoff time this year. inge, guillen are healthy, maybe (but probably not) zumaya and bonderman are ready to make some contributions after a couple seasons of dead weight, cabrera isnt boozing it up before games anymore. our pitching can hang with minnesota or chicago, and hopefully the offense wont be so anemic this year. and again i agree that the granderson trade WAS NOT about the money. DD made a good move by trading jackson at peak value so he doesnt make the mistake of signing him to a huge deal and getting no return (a la bondo, willis, robertson, the list goes on) and granderson is a terrific person and guy to have in the clubhouse, but there were so many times where his strikeouts or inability to just get on base killed rallies
the thing about those contracts you mentioned, though, is that boston didn’t just trade away a young outfielder/or third baseman with 3 years of team control before signing a bummer contract on some washed-up-ish veteran. detroit did. ergo, they make no sense.
Yeah, Bostons signing of Brad Penny and John Smolts last year worked out fine.
i understand that but obviously the tigers soured on jackson and granderson as players. they got a great haul for those 2 and we were never in a rebuilding mode, otherwise we wouldnt have signed valverde either. we were retooling. damon jjust had one of his best offensive seasons i know it was as a yankee and thats gotta count for something but give the dude a year at least to give you a reason to say hes washed up on the offensive end.
completely agree. damons contract doesnt look so bad when you compare it to 10 mil for beltre and 15 for 2 years from mike cameron. the central just got a lot tighter and there is a chance the tigers could be serious contenders come playoff time this year. inge, guillen are healthy, maybe (but probably not) zumaya and bonderman are ready to make some contributions after a couple seasons of dead weight, cabrera isnt boozing it up before games anymore. our pitching can hang with minnesota or chicago, and hopefully the offense wont be so anemic this year. and again i agree that the granderson trade WAS NOT about the money. DD made a good move by trading jackson at peak value so he doesnt make the mistake of signing him to a huge deal and getting no return (a la bondo, willis, robertson, the list goes on) and granderson is a terrific person and guy to have in the clubhouse, but there were so many times where his strikeouts or inability to just get on base killed rallies
Dude I loved the offseason up until right now…theres no way Damon is worth 8 million dollars of our money. Thank the good lord it’s only for 1 year, but I still think its unnecessary
He’s going to have a good season.
Dude I loved the offseason up until right now…theres no way Damon is worth 8 million dollars of our money. Thank the good lord it’s only for 1 year, but I still think its unnecessary
Thanks! I’m way more pumped this year too, but I think it’s also because this year they have a shot at contending and last year I was a little dismal in my excitement because the Tigers finished last in ’08 and even though I had faith in them contending I didn’t plan on it. Their infusion of young power arms and rookies Austin Jackson and Scott Sizemore should make them an exciting team to watch next year no matter where they finish.
Thanks! I’m way more pumped this year too, but I think it’s also because this year they have a shot at contending and last year I was a little dismal in my excitement because the Tigers finished last in ’08 and even though I had faith in them contending I didn’t plan on it. Their infusion of young power arms and rookies Austin Jackson and Scott Sizemore should make them an exciting team to watch next year no matter where they finish.
Finally, a Detroit fan who doesn’t remind me of Chicken Little. I’ve been very happy with this off-season. I’m tired… TIRED of all the people out there who feel they have Detroit figured out. Those who saw the trades of Granderson and Edwin as only being made as financial moves and completely ignore the fact that A) they both sh*t the bed the second half of the season, B) both are quite overrated no matter how likable a person Curtis is, and C) the return they got was quite impressive, especially when looking at facts A and B. If people want to say they “basically traded Granderson for Damon,” so be it. Just don’t forget that means the Tigers traded Edwin Jackson for Scherzer, Schlereth, Austin Jackson, and Phil Coke.
I’m more excited to see the Tigers this year than I was last year at this time. Younger, stronger pitching, some promising young players to start following their careers (Sizemore, Avila, Jackson, Schlereth), and of course one of the top 5 pitchers and hitters in the entire league (Verlander, Cabrera).
As a Tigers fan, im excited seeing Damon in a Ol’ English D. He’s a good hitter for this less-than-exciting lineup we throw out on a daily basis.
As a Tigers fan, im excited seeing Damon in a Ol’ English D. He’s a good hitter for this less-than-exciting lineup we throw out on a daily basis.
He may of taken the best deal but his offensive/defensive value in that park will plummet especially considering he’ll be hitting the market once again next year.
Even so still a nice pick up at the top of that order but not so much on a one year deal when that large payroll is gonna turn out so many useless players.
He may of taken the best deal but his offensive/defensive value in that park will plummet especially considering he’ll be hitting the market once again next year.
Even so still a nice pick up at the top of that order but not so much on a one year deal when that large payroll is gonna turn out so many useless players.
he ain’t going to get the same stats he had last year that is a given.
Why is it a given? This wasn’t some major outlier. He probably hits a lot less home runs but makes up for it with doubles and a higher BA.
he ain’t going to get the same stats he had last year that is a given.
He may not win any prizes with his arm or defense, but in my book, Johnny Damon definitely wins the “Soap Opera of the Year” award…which actually makes him a loser pretty much….
He may not win any prizes with his arm or defense, but in my book, Johnny Damon definitely wins the “Soap Opera of the Year” award…which actually makes him a loser pretty much….
more then $7million for next year.
so boras isn’t a complete idiot as yankee fans made him out to be.
he still turned down 2/$14, so yes, he still misplayed this market
according to reports he turned down a 2 year deal worth more then that from the tigers…
so if he didn’t want a 2 year deal then who are you to say he misplayed a thing?
Why wouldn’t he want a two year deal when he was looking for a three year deal?
I doubt the Tigers actually made a two year offer more than the Yankees. It was probably a rumor. It just doesn’t make sense to offer that much when you have the Yankees out of the situation. (Unless the thing was heavily back loaded or incentive based)
Why wouldn’t he want a two year deal when he was looking for a three year deal?
I doubt the Tigers actually made a two year offer more than the Yankees. It was probably a rumor. It just doesn’t make sense to offer that much when you have the Yankees out of the situation. (Unless the thing was heavily back loaded or incentive based)
Yeah, he actually didn’t want a two year deal. He wanted a three year one.
Just saying.
Damon severely misplayed the market. There is no arguing this fact, sir.
Yeah, he actually didn’t want a two year deal. He wanted a three year one.
Just saying.
Damon severely misplayed the market. There is no arguing this fact, sir.
and your not thinking correctly if you think he turned down a higher two year deal from the same team that he just signed a one year deal with. FWIW, Id recommend you not believing everything you read on a rumor site
according to reports he turned down a 2 year deal worth more then that from the tigers…
so if he didn’t want a 2 year deal then who are you to say he misplayed a thing?
he still turned down 2/$14, so yes, he still misplayed this market
more then $7million for next year.
so boras isn’t a complete idiot as yankee fans made him out to be.
While the AL Central is probably a little tighter, Twins are still the clear leaders in the division.
not really, it is a crap-shoot at best. The Twins don’t have the pitching to be a clear frontrunner, it cracks me up how people just give the twins the benefit of the doubt
The Twins have the worst pitching of the three teams.
and I would say we have the best in Detroit
Not really, the White Sox rotation is rated by many people as number 3 in baseball.
not really, it is a crap-shoot at best. The Twins don’t have the pitching to be a clear frontrunner, it cracks me up how people just give the twins the benefit of the doubt
deffinitly not the clear leaders. have fun with jj hardy hitting 20 home runs in the span of 2 weeks then being dead weight the rest of the year. thome isnt even playing full time hes just getting spot starts. orlando hudson is for some reason getting hyped to be one of the biggest signings of the year and the twins staff has way too many questions. while im not saying my tigers are the clear leaders either by any means, us, twisn, and sox all have a number of things to go right. its more of a crap shoot than anything
While I agree there’s no “clear frontrunner”, I’m not sure where this “twins staff has way too many questions” keeps coming from. It’s one of those things that’s been repeated so much everyone just seems to assume it’s true.
Baker
Slowey
Blackburn
Pavano
Liriano/Duensing/Swarzak/Perkins
What’s the question mark? Having an open competition for our #5 spot in the rotation equates to “too many questions”? Because the 1-4 of the rotation are fairly established pitchers who we all have a good idea what to expect from.
deffinitly not the clear leaders. have fun with jj hardy hitting 20 home runs in the span of 2 weeks then being dead weight the rest of the year. thome isnt even playing full time hes just getting spot starts. orlando hudson is for some reason getting hyped to be one of the biggest signings of the year and the twins staff has way too many questions. while im not saying my tigers are the clear leaders either by any means, us, twisn, and sox all have a number of things to go right. its more of a crap shoot than anything
There is no clear leader in this division.
While the AL Central is probably a little tighter, Twins are still the clear leaders in the division.
So what was the motivation of making the deal for Granderson and Jackson again? By signing Damon they don’t save much considering Grandy and Ejax will “only” earn $9.7 mil this year. So as far as salary relief is concerned they saved $2.2 mil by trading those two and adding Damon. Is it possible that the Tigers didn’t have faith in the two they had and thought they were selling high? If not, and the moves were money motivated then it seems that they didn’t make the right moves and should’ve just held on to both and let the bad contracts come off the books in 2011.
Exactly right, they sold high on players they thought wouldn’t replicate their 2009 numbers. If they really wanted to shed payroll, they would have attempted to trade Ordonez, Bonderman, or Robertson and tried to take everything they could while hoping the other team will eat some salary. Look at their numbers: Jackson was absolutely terrible in the second half as his ERA ballooned, and his walk and home run totals increased. Granderson struck out a ton, couldn’t hit lefties, his average took a nosedive, and to me, looked like he was declining defensively as the season went along. They’re doing what they should be doing in trading Grandy, upgrading for the future while putting pieces in place to contend in 2010.
So you are trying to convince yourself that they sold high on Curtis Granderson? Really?
2009 was his career worst season. His OPS was .913 in 2007, .858 in 2008, and only .780 last year. How is that selling high?
Curtis Granderon’s BABIP last year was .275, as opposed to .360 and .316 in the 2 prior seasons. This seems to suggest that not only are they selling him low on his actual numbers, but they are giving up on him after he had some bad luck as well. His line drive rate last year was actually higher than his career year in 2007, with the main difference being a rise in fly balls with the power. This could partially explain the decline in BABIP, but at the same time he was hitting a lot of line drives that were not becoming hits (only 4.5% more fly balls than his career year, yet a nearly 85 point drop in BABIP).
If he had the same numbers against LHP in 2009 as he did in 2008, his OPS would have been near .850. He still murdered RHP (.897 OPS), and if he had any sort of bounceback he would be a very productive player. Detroit was not selling him high, they were selling him about as low as you could go.
Austin Jackson? Phil Coke? You think that is a haul for a player who has been as good as Granderson has been? Coke is a lefty reliever who gives up long balls left and right, and Austin Jackson can’t hit a home run in AAA. The Yankees traded these guys for a reason- they were expendable, and in return got a guy at a much lower price than he ever would have fetched. Think of what Detroit would have gotten for Granderson if they held on to him and he bounced back somewhat, and they tried to trade him at the deadline to some desperate contending team.
Instead, they have 36 year old Damon, traded their #2 starter, who let’s be honest, couldn’t be much worse than he was in the 2nd half last year, even if he wasn’t going to replicate his first half. In return they got a bunch of middle relievers, a very uncertain outfield prospect, and a talented but raw starting pitcher. Signing Damon makes no sense, because it is a move that reeks of trying to win, yet they traded their #2 starter and starting CF, who combined make not much more than Damon and were both due to bounce back a bit.
Exactly right, they sold high on players they thought wouldn’t replicate their 2009 numbers. If they really wanted to shed payroll, they would have attempted to trade Ordonez, Bonderman, or Robertson and tried to take everything they could while hoping the other team will eat some salary. Look at their numbers: Jackson was absolutely terrible in the second half as his ERA ballooned, and his walk and home run totals increased. Granderson struck out a ton, couldn’t hit lefties, his average took a nosedive, and to me, looked like he was declining defensively as the season went along. They’re doing what they should be doing in trading Grandy, upgrading for the future while putting pieces in place to contend in 2010.
Thank you for considering that maybe they made the moves because they were trying to sell high. Most people outside the Tiger fan base just assume no one in Detroit has any money and that we all live in the streets and burned out buildings, and as such, the Tigers have no business spending money like this.
Thank you for considering that maybe they made the moves because they were trying to sell high. Most people outside the Tiger fan base just assume no one in Detroit has any money and that we all live in the streets and burned out buildings, and as such, the Tigers have no business spending money like this.
So what was the motivation of making the deal for Granderson and Jackson again? By signing Damon they don’t save much considering Grandy and Ejax will “only” earn $9.7 mil this year. So as far as salary relief is concerned they saved $2.2 mil by trading those two and adding Damon. Is it possible that the Tigers didn’t have faith in the two they had and thought they were selling high? If not, and the moves were money motivated then it seems that they didn’t make the right moves and should’ve just held on to both and let the bad contracts come off the books in 2011.
I dont think the tigers got rid of granderson as a salary dump…they got younger (with schelereth, coke, scherzer and jackson) while improving their club. I think there are a lot of concerns going forward with granderson and he is signed fo rmultiple years (unlike damon). I am not a tigers fan or damon, but i think it makes them better…I just can’t believe damon ended up getting 8 mil.
Couldn’t agree more.
Couldn’t agree more.
I dont think the tigers got rid of granderson as a salary dump…they got younger (with schelereth, coke, scherzer and jackson) while improving their club. I think there are a lot of concerns going forward with granderson and he is signed fo rmultiple years (unlike damon). I am not a tigers fan or damon, but i think it makes them better…I just can’t believe damon ended up getting 8 mil.
Sigh… outbid ourselves and way overpaid. So stupid. He better put up some mad numbers to win me over
I’m not high on Damon either, but he is a left-handed, no. 2 hitter who we could use. As long as he scores runs, he’ll be a nice stopgap until the Tigers make a push for Crawford or Werth. Even though it wouldn’t hurt my feelings to see them not sign him and instead put Raburn in left, I’m strangely okay with the signing.
Werth is a possibility, but you might be dreaming a bit too high for Crawford come next offseason.
I’m not high on Damon either, but he is a left-handed, no. 2 hitter who we could use. As long as he scores runs, he’ll be a nice stopgap until the Tigers make a push for Crawford or Werth. Even though it wouldn’t hurt my feelings to see them not sign him and instead put Raburn in left, I’m strangely okay with the signing.
I couldn’t agree with you more. Damon better hit that ball like his life depends on it…
Sigh… outbid ourselves and way overpaid. So stupid. He better put up some mad numbers to win me over
What a horrible move for the tigers, i’m not complaining about the damon part, as much as the money. 8 million? how much is guarantee? If noone else is offering 5 million, how the heck do you give 8 million, and outbid the yankees ORIGINAL DEAL?!?!?! They trade granderson, then get damon for more money than granderson would get. Awful move in terms of money.
Honestly, what do you care that it was $8 million versus $5 million? Is this move stopping them from making another move to improve the team?
Honestly, what do you care that it was $8 million versus $5 million? Is this move stopping them from making another move to improve the team?
What a horrible move for the tigers, i’m not complaining about the damon part, as much as the money. 8 million? how much is guarantee? If noone else is offering 5 million, how the heck do you give 8 million, and outbid the yankees ORIGINAL DEAL?!?!?! They trade granderson, then get damon for more money than granderson would get. Awful move in terms of money.
$130 million buys the Tigers awful players/huge question marks at 2nd/center/short/catcher/4-5 in the rotation. I understand Ilitch is insanely wealth but their organization has no idea when to stop spending. I like Damon and he fits one of their needs but there is too many potential question marks for that signing to push them over the top.
And here they come. All the haters will come out now and say what an AWWWWWFUL signing this was!! Danks50, if he would’ve signed with the Sox you would be filling out one of those mock line ups and praising Kenny “The Moron” Williams for making it happen. Why is a 1 year deal for a guy that hits so well in Comerica such an awful signing? Let’s see what the Tigers spent money on this offseason. We got a closer at 2 years and $14M that has had a ton of success. We locked up Verlander, a proven #1, for the next 5 years (What were they thinking?) and now Damon for 1, that’s right ONE year and if he has decent numbers can help them win a wide open AL Central. So what the hell are you talking about when you say Illitch doesn’t know when to stop spending? He got rid of Jackson in part to bring in 3 pitchers (Schlereth, Coke and Scherzer) that don’t cost as much as he does COMBINED! So get your facts straight before you start breaking out the hate hater!
Can you read or has your 2nd grade class not covered that yet? I like the signing for the Tigers and its definately improves their offense, its just doesn’t make too much sense when early in the offseason they looked to rebuild yet brought in some free agents late in the season as if they believe this is a rock solid team. Its not, and despite your rant there is holes up and down that team and despite spending so much money they are still unable to fix them.
As for this, “Kenny “The Moron” Williams”.
Robertson/Bonderman/Willis/Ordonez/Guillen = $65.5 million dollars, and while every team has their bad contracts If your can’t see the dumb GM between these two I feel bad for you.
THEY WERE NEVER REBUILDING! Who ever came out and said that they were rebuilding? Dave Dombrowski? Jim Leyland? They saw an opportunity to get a little younger and cheaper by trading Granderson and Jackson. I don’t think that the Tigers organization were ever that thrilled with Granderson’s offense with the strikeout numbers and an awful OBP and inability to hit LH pitchers, and with Jackson they got a mirror like player with a big upside. Thats what confuses me. And they saved a ton of $$$ in that trade to get the Verlander deal done and also to bring in Valverde.
They traded away Granderson and Jackson, only to use the money that was going to be spent on them for Jose Valverde and Johnny Damon, a mediocre closer and a 36 year old outfielder who is a huge downgrade from Granderson.
It seems like the Tigers had two off-seasons. One was a rebuilding one, the other was one where they decided to overpay some veterans.
They traded Jackson and Granderson to bring in pieces they felt could fill immediate needs, not to rebuild.
And how is Valverde mediocre? Maybe he won’t make the transition from NL to AL well, but he was more than mediocre in Arizona and Houston.
What pieces? Outside of Scherzer, Coke, and maybe Schlereth, they got nothing in return that screamed out Major League ready. Austin Jackson might not be ML ready at this point. They got a bunch of prospects in return of two players who were still under the age of 30. If that’s not “rebuilding” I don’t know what is.
Valverde is mediocre. He falls somewhere in between good/mediocre for a closer. His tERA is consistently up in the mid 3s. His ERA isn’t indicative of his actual pitching ability. He hasn’t posted a 1 WAR season in a while and I don’t see him posting one this year.
THEY WERE NEVER REBUILDING! Who ever came out and said that they were rebuilding? Dave Dombrowski? Jim Leyland? They saw an opportunity to get a little younger and cheaper by trading Granderson and Jackson. I don’t think that the Tigers organization were ever that thrilled with Granderson’s offense with the strikeout numbers and an awful OBP and inability to hit LH pitchers, and with Jackson they got a mirror like player with a big upside. Thats what confuses me. And they saved a ton of $$$ in that trade to get the Verlander deal done and also to bring in Valverde.
Dombroski is one of the most well-respected GMs in the game. You can’t tell me that the Ordonez signing was bad in 2006-2008, even the second half of ’09. Bonderman’s signing was great 2006 and 2007 as well, and Robertson and Guillen have both been exteremely productive at times in their contracts. Also, almost all of that $65.5 million is off the books next year. I can also name a few bad moves your GM has made in the past, every GM does.
Ordonez put together an incredible year in 2007 and some nice years during that contract however he hasn’t produced to live up to that $75 million dollar deal.
“Dombroski is one of the most well-respected GMs in the game.”
In your mind maybe. The team success since 2002 speaks for itself. 1 wild card berth and 0 AL Central titles, that’s considered success?
Ordonez put together an incredible year in 2007 and some nice years during that contract however he hasn’t produced to live up to that $75 million dollar deal.
“Dombroski is one of the most well-respected GMs in the game.”
In your mind maybe. The team success since 2002 speaks for itself. 1 wild card berth and 0 AL Central titles, that’s considered success?
The Ordonez signing was terrible. They gave a lot of money to a player nobody else had interest in and was injured to start that 2005 season. Dombrowksi bailed out Boras there, without question.
The Bonderman contract was good for the first two seasons, but he can’t seem to stay healthy, that’s something the front office should have realized before spending wildly on a guy.
Robertson was also a bad contract. The guy’s nothing more than a mediocre 5th starter with a tERA in the 5s or a long relief man out of the bullpen.
Dombrowski’s done a pretty bad job in terms of spending his money wisely. He’s had a lot of money to spend over the past few years and the Tigers haven’t even reached the playoffs since 2006.
There are a great many fans in Detroit that would disagree with you on Ordonez being a terrible signing, maybe letting him vest for 2k10 was not such a great move, but overall he’s played pretty damn good baseball for us.
Dombroski is one of the most well-respected GMs in the game. You can’t tell me that the Ordonez signing was bad in 2006-2008, even the second half of ’09. Bonderman’s signing was great 2006 and 2007 as well, and Robertson and Guillen have both been exteremely productive at times in their contracts. Also, almost all of that $65.5 million is off the books next year. I can also name a few bad moves your GM has made in the past, every GM does.
Can you read or has your 2nd grade class not covered that yet? I like the signing for the Tigers and its definately improves their offense, its just doesn’t make too much sense when early in the offseason they looked to rebuild yet brought in some free agents late in the season as if they believe this is a rock solid team. Its not, and despite your rant there is holes up and down that team and despite spending so much money they are still unable to fix them.
As for this, “Kenny “The Moron” Williams”.
Robertson/Bonderman/Willis/Ordonez/Guillen = $65.5 million dollars, and while every team has their bad contracts If your can’t see the dumb GM between these two I feel bad for you.
And here they come. All the haters will come out now and say what an AWWWWWFUL signing this was!! Danks50, if he would’ve signed with the Sox you would be filling out one of those mock line ups and praising Kenny “The Moron” Williams for making it happen. Why is a 1 year deal for a guy that hits so well in Comerica such an awful signing? Let’s see what the Tigers spent money on this offseason. We got a closer at 2 years and $14M that has had a ton of success. We locked up Verlander, a proven #1, for the next 5 years (What were they thinking?) and now Damon for 1, that’s right ONE year and if he has decent numbers can help them win a wide open AL Central. So what the hell are you talking about when you say Illitch doesn’t know when to stop spending? He got rid of Jackson in part to bring in 3 pitchers (Schlereth, Coke and Scherzer) that don’t cost as much as he does COMBINED! So get your facts straight before you start breaking out the hate hater!
You’re wrong on a few points. Awful players? Some are below average, but I would by no means call Cabrera, Verlander, Ordonez, Valverde, Inge, Perry, Porcello, Scherzer, Coke, Seay, Raburn, or Miner awful players. Adam Everett is a great defensive shortstop, there’s no question mark there, and the same goes with Gerald Laird. Also, you don’t need to be over the top to win the AL Central…
Yes they have some very nice pieces and I never called any of those players awful. However despite good D the .600 OPS that Everett and Laird will likely bring to the lineup negates their defensive contributions. They are they definition of a hole in the lineup (ie Andruw Jones). As for the AL Central your right it isn’t very impressive and can easily be determined by a few players living up to their potential, however looking at the Tigers lineup/rotation they seem the least complete out of the 3 team that likely compete for the Central.
Even factoring in defense, it’s tough to find a bottom of the order that will be less productive than the Tigers. That said, the rotation is solid, they upgraded the bullpen dramatically with Valverde, and Damon/Granderson is probably close to a push. They also infused some youth into the organization with Jackson, Scherzer, Schlereth, and Coke. I don’t think the Tigers have taken a huge step forward this year, but they’ll certainly be competitive in the AL Central and they are very, very well positioned for 2011.
Even factoring in defense, it’s tough to find a bottom of the order that will be less productive than the Tigers. That said, the rotation is solid, they upgraded the bullpen dramatically with Valverde, and Damon/Granderson is probably close to a push. They also infused some youth into the organization with Jackson, Scherzer, Schlereth, and Coke. I don’t think the Tigers have taken a huge step forward this year, but they’ll certainly be competitive in the AL Central and they are very, very well positioned for 2011.
Yes they have some very nice pieces and I never called any of those players awful.
~~> $130 million buys the Tigers awful players
Yes they have some very nice pieces and I never called any of those players awful. However despite good D the .600 OPS that Everett and Laird will likely bring to the lineup negates their defensive contributions. They are they definition of a hole in the lineup (ie Andruw Jones). As for the AL Central your right it isn’t very impressive and can easily be determined by a few players living up to their potential, however looking at the Tigers lineup/rotation they seem the least complete out of the 3 team that likely compete for the Central.
You’re wrong on a few points. Awful players? Some are below average, but I would by no means call Cabrera, Verlander, Ordonez, Valverde, Inge, Perry, Porcello, Scherzer, Coke, Seay, Raburn, or Miner awful players. Adam Everett is a great defensive shortstop, there’s no question mark there, and the same goes with Gerald Laird. Also, you don’t need to be over the top to win the AL Central…
$130 million buys the Tigers awful players/huge question marks at 2nd/center/short/catcher/4-5 in the rotation. I understand Ilitch is insanely wealth but their organization has no idea when to stop spending. I like Damon and he fits one of their needs but there is too many potential question marks for that signing to push them over the top.
They could have spent that $8,000,000 way better IMO. The thing I’m waiting for though is tomorrow morning we all wake up to here he failed his physical do to something dumb like an ingrown toe nail and the saga continues for another couple weeks on “The Damons of our Lives”
They could have spent that $8,000,000 way better IMO. The thing I’m waiting for though is tomorrow morning we all wake up to here he failed his physical do to something dumb like an ingrown toe nail and the saga continues for another couple weeks on “The Damons of our Lives”
MLBDamonRumors is officially closed.
MLBDamonRumors is officially closed.
Uhh, if Damon is going to play the outfield they will have a problem.
Uhh, if Damon is going to play the outfield they will have a problem.
Don’t forget to save Tim’s “Johnny Damon Rumors: *day” template file for next year!
Don’t forget to save Tim’s “Johnny Damon Rumors: *day” template file for next year!
I never understand citing a guy’s statistics as a visiting player. I mean, all of Damon’s at-bats in Comerica came against Tigers pitchers, the one group of guys who, by and large, he’s never going to face there.
I never understand citing a guy’s statistics as a visiting player. I mean, all of Damon’s at-bats in Comerica came against Tigers pitchers, the one group of guys who, by and large, he’s never going to face there.
There’s a no trade clause also…
Hmmm. Damon would look good as a second half rental for the right contender if the Tigs are out of the race by 7/31. But of course Johnny doesn’t mind waiving it since he supposedly doesn’t want to be there in the first place. “Just pay us another $1M to waive it” I can hear Boros saying now. The inmates are running the asylum.
Hmmm. Damon would look good as a second half rental for the right contender if the Tigs are out of the race by 7/31. But of course Johnny doesn’t mind waiving it since he supposedly doesn’t want to be there in the first place. “Just pay us another $1M to waive it” I can hear Boros saying now. The inmates are running the asylum.
There’s a no trade clause also…
Saw a couple of comments about Boras failing, gotta disagree. How many people thought Damon would get 8 million dollars?
Most people thought he would get MAYBE 2/8.. Boras is the man.
Nice sarcasm.
Or at least I hope it is.
No trade clause and 8 million dollars.. all of that after reports of nothing higher than 5 million dollars or so.
But they puked away the Yankee deal, that’s the point. $8M is a great consolation prize, but a consolation prize nonetheless.
All that after telling the Yankees not to bother making an offer if it’s less than three years for 13 million per … yeah, Boras is the man.
The two guys below me made the point I was going to.
He lost out on a far better deal with a team in a far better position to win than the Detroit Tigers. I think it’s safe to say Borasshole failed him.
Saw a couple of comments about Boras failing, gotta disagree. How many people thought Damon would get 8 million dollars?
Most people thought he would get MAYBE 2/8.. Boras is the man.
FINALLY ITS OVER. Sucks for Ryan Raburn, interesting lineup for the Tigers.
They should just trade Ryan Raburn to the White Sox. I’d welcome that.
I’m sure we’ll hang on to Raburn one more year. We are going to need a forth outfielder when Guillen hits the DL.
Lol I know that was said as a joke, but I’m thinking the Tigers and Sox won’t be doing any trading with eachother anytime soon
Last time we got a player from the White Sox, (I know he was an FA) he turned out to be a batting champ.
why would you give damon a no trade clause?
Am i the only one who thinks Damon is not going to be that good out of Yankee stadium and out of that Yankee lineup?
No, you arent at all. Im going to believe that until he proves to me otherwise
Exactly Comerica has a huge outfield and the walls are far from home plate. I expect around 15 homers.
Overpaid. Congrats to Boras though for making something out of nothing for his client. I’m surprised Damon got this much.
Signing looks OK in a vacuum but jesus, I don’t think a team was offering anywhere near that AND he gets a no trade clause? Yeeeeeesh
It’s only a million more than what the Yankees offered. I would have taken the Yanks offer because of all the other things that comes with the deal. I don’t think another million can replace a chance to repeat as world champs, Yankee Stadiums left porch, and the feeling of playing in New York. Keep in mind he could of had 2 years in the bronx. Well, I wish him luck in Detroit.
I almost feel bad for Damon. He has Boras as his agent to get him the best deal possible and to read the market for him. Boras did none of that. He got Damon less money, less years, and less team.
Exactly. At least this is finally over.
As a Twins fan, I’m glad he’s not with the White Sox. He would have done a lot better with the Sox than he will do in Detroit, IMO.
As a Yankee fan watching Damon last year, OK his arm is awful but I think the home run thing is blown out of proportion because he was hitting so many of those HRs in the second deck compared to Jeter who makes the wall by one or two rows. He has good pop in the bat and can still steal a lot of bases even though he didn’t last year as he was on base for Tex and A-Rod.
Hey, whats wrong with ramen dinners?
Seriously, this is a VERY BAD overpay. No one was bidding against them. Even the nearest competitor dropped out at $4.5MM. It does provide a solid left-hand veteran bat, which is far better than Granderson’s, but defensively, Damon will cost as many runs as he produces on offense.
It looks like someone kissed Boras ass here. I hope they got a pound of flesh from Boras, or that Cosmo Damon can pull a rabbit from his hat. Otherwise, in July, I’m gonna be like, “how’s that Damony thing workin’ out for ya?” And POOR Ms. Damon, who will now be so very culturally challenged.
Mike Ilitch is still on Scott Boras speeddial, listed as CHUMP.
Damon can join Cabrera when getting drunk with White Sox.
Personally I think Damon is worth 8mil. However given the market and the options I don’t think the Tigers should have paid 8mil. I thought when we saw the White Sox pull their offer we were going to see Damon’s price drop quite a bit. The Tigers were the only team aggressively pursuing him, they should have just said screw and let him sit on a smaller offer for a few weeks until he starts blaming Boras. Then when the moment is right and Boras has Damon breathing down his neck about misplaying the market and Damon wanting to sign, get him for a few mil less.
All in all though, Damon is still worth 8mil, I just think they could have gotten him for less.
Wow, Atlanta was Damon’s first choice, now he is saying that Detroit is his first choice. Also, this deal proves that some GM’s are spineless when it comes to negotiating contracts with Boras.
When will Braves get over the fact that Atlanta was not his first choice, he was just saying that to drum up offers
And, it looks like the only people that fell for it, was the team that offered him $8 million, with a no-trade clause, which is the stupidest thing I have ever seen. If they did give him a second year with that no-trade clause, I would consider that the worst contract in baseball, including worse than Vernon Wells contract.
And, people can criticize me for this, but you probably aren’t going to get a response.
Damon isn’t that bad. I don’t think you can even compare those contracts.
It seems that you are a little frustrated that Damon didn’t sign with the Braves. (And biased against Boras) But, Damon only cares about the money. It’s not necessarily morally wrong — but it’s true.
Damon for 2 years 8 mil per wouldn’t have been that bad. The Jays will be paying 20 mil+ for another 5 years for league average to below average performance.
The only reason a two year deal would have been dumb is because there was not market for it. In terms of production, he would certainly be worth 8 mil if he can produce his average of 3 WAR per season.
So a 2-year contract for $14 million and a no-trade clause is worse than a 7-year contract for $126 million?
Money is his first choice.
I don’t think money was his first choice, Boras just convinced him it was. I personally think the words that he told Heyman about “Detroit was my first choice for sometime” was all scripted by Boras.
It was reported that Damon went back to the Yankees and tried to negotiate a contract just moments before the Nick Johnson signing.
Atlanta was not Damon’s first choice. He only mentioned it because there might have been a fit. As soon as they (Boras and Damon) realized Atlanta didn’t have any cash left, they went on to praising Detroit.
Listen, the guy did this before. How can you forget about the whole “I’m never gonna be a Yankee” comment? If that doesn’t explain it, then I don’t know what would.
Subject: Did Boras and Damon win?
Obviously not. They ended up making the best of a horrible situation but keep in mind. a) Boras wanted 3/$36 mil and told the Yanks don’t even bother if they weren’t offering that b) Yanks offered 2/$14 mil anyway c) Damon wanted to be a Yankee and further his HOF campaign in NY where the benefits are obvious d) He loses the benefit of the Yankee lineup, NYS RF dimensions and for the 2nd time in his career comes off as a money hungry insincere player after professing his love for Boston and NY.
Clearly, despite squeezing a deal out of Detroit that no one thought he could get, he still comes out as a loser in this (w/n the context of baseball of course).
I wish Damon well and harbor no ill feeling towards him. Just unhappy that money became an issue and kept him from retiring as a Yankee, or at least being one in 2010. Would;ve been nice to see him get his ring in NY as a Yankee.
Subject: Detroit
Damon is a good addition to the lineup but not sure if all their moves are cohesive at all. a) They trade Grandy and Ejax for what purpose? Was it selling high on players they felt were due for further decline? Was it originally done for salary relief in efforts of improving elsewhere? b) Are they trying to be competitive in 2010 and if so then can you truly defend exchanging an established 28 yr old all-star caliber CF for an unproven 22 year old in Austin Jackson? Clearly Austin was viewed as a great prospect, but I think even the Yanks felt he needed 1 more year in AAA to improve. Can you justify trading your 2nd best SP for a 2nd year NL pitcher with control issues? If the deal for Grandy and Ejax were done for the purpose of getting younger overall then how do you justify bringing in Damon at age 36 and taking away valuable PT from Rayburn, Thomas and Ramirez?
I have less of a problem with the decision to sign Damon but, if I were a Tigers fan, I would be more concerned as to whether or not the owner and GM have a cohesive plan for 2010 and beyond. They have 3 fairly overpaid and aging OF’ers that they can’t trade for various reasons (no trade clause or horrible contracts) in Damon, Guillen and Ordonez and they several young players like Ajax, Rayburn, Ramirez and Thomas who they need to figure out their ability at the major league levels.
Seems to me obstaining from any veteran FA period would be the right move. Focus on younger players and defense. Move Ordonez to DH and go with an OF of Guillen and Rayburn in the corners and Austin Jackson as the CF. Use Thomas as the 4th OF and try to get him 300-400 AB this year. Try your best to figure out if any of your young OF’s are major league ballplayers so that you can determine what spots you can fill in-house as you go into winter 2010. With all the money coming off the books after this winter and guys like Werth, Crawford and maybe DeJesus on the block next winter seems like they would be better served being conservative this year sort of like the Yanks were.
“I would be more concerned as to whether or not the owner and GM have a cohesive plan for 2010 and beyond.”
Its clear that despite fielding one of the highest payrolls in the AL with millions in sunken cost they don’t plan on rebuilding by signing Valverde & Damon. However with the length of those two deals how do you sell that your competing by trading away/not resigning two of your better overall players from the year before and fill those positions with unproven rookies?
Despite the believes of many their fans the Tigers seem to be in limbo as they trade away established players and promote rookies to see what they can do on the major league level while simultaneously bringing in players solely for the purpose to win right now.
I agree it is a little bit confusing, but I think the front office saw what Granderson and E Jax did in the 2nd half and wanted to sell high. IMO I think they did just that. True in the AL East or NL Central it probably wouldnt make sense to follow those trades up with the signings of Valverde and Damon, but in the AL Central these 2 signings put them right back in the thick of things (while also adding 4 good young players). I don’t see the downside (however, I would have liked to see them spend this $8 million on a 4-5 Starter and/or F Lopez…)
//Was it selling high on players they felt were due for further decline?//
That gets my vote.
All things being equal he would have probably chosen the White Sox so the Tigers had to offer more money to get him to go to Detroit. The reason the White Sox pulled their offer because they saw that he was going to sign with Detroit and said that Damon could still accept their original offer. I don’t know how they are bidding against themselves when he had offers from the White Sox and Braves. I think 8 mill is a little high for Damon but if they bid say a million more than White Sox he might have still chosen the White Sox. I see it has a win that they didn’t have to give two years. However, a good move to get a left-handed top of the order hitter that the team desperately needed. You can’t say he doesn’t make the team instantly better. While a below average fielder still an upgrade over Guillen. If you told me at the beginning of the off-season that they could get Damon on a 1 year 8 mill I would say it was a steal.
I think the Twins’ recent signings really influenced this signing.
Are Granderson and Damon much different in terms of value? I say no. Damon is a bit more consistent and can hit lefties and righties. Granderson is younger and has more power. So Detroit swapped outfielders with the Yankees AND got A Jackson and Phil Coke. On this I say great job. If this would have been a 2 year deal I would not have liked it because we have some good young OFers coming up, but this gives them one more year to develop (or in Raburns case be the 4th OFer) to see what we have before next years FA class. I think the Tigers paid too much, but it isn’t my money and I’m glad the ownership is willing to spend to help the team compete in the weak AL Central in 2010.
Early Prediction; J Damon hits the winning HR in game 7 of the ALCS at Yankee Stadium to knock out the yanks…haha, maybe just wishful thinking…
//Early Prediction; J Damon hits the winning HR in game 7 of the ALCS at Yankee Stadium to knock out the yanks…haha, maybe just wishful thinking…//
I’d like that, very much so.
well I must say it has been nothing short of a delight discussing this entire thing with you all but I personally am stoked that it’s over, let’s just get on with the damn season already, sound good?
I’m glad it’s only for one year.
What I will enjoy most of all is watching old noodlearm in Left Field in Detroit. That will be pure comedy to watch in that ballpark.
With his
-2.7 runs below average Arm,
-3.7 runs below average Range
-9.2 runs below average UZR
or his 5 outfield errors, where he would just lose sight of the ball for unknown reasons.
that is while playing in Yankee Stadium for 81 games, Imagine his defense in Comerica’s outfield this coming season. Can you say 1st to 3rd and Home.
On offense you are looking at a
.280-.285 AVG
15 HR max
65 RBI
i’d prefer Damon’s .280-.285 average and good OBP as well as A-Jax comparable defense to Granderson in center, to Granderson’s declining batting average, poor base-running decision-making, and incapacity to hit lefties by age 29. Additionally, Damon is not much worse defensively than Carlos Guillen, the incumbent LF. Either way, LF was going to be a weak spot for Detroit defensively. Granted Rayburn could have played LF, but he can also play center or RF in case Magglio has to DH or A-Jax struggles. It’s a one year gamble, and the improvement he makes in the offense is huge. The Tigers last year proved they need guys that can hit for average and get on-base for MCab to drive them in, and Damon has proven time and time again he can do that. I could understand the discontent if it was a two-year deal, but it’s a low-risk high reward signing at one year. Look at what Bobby Abreu did for the Angels last year.
People need to get things straight: The Tigers traded Curtis Granderson for Phil Coke, Austin Jackson, AND Daniel Schlereth.
Dave Dombrowski pushed to get Schlereth and Scherzer for Edwin Jackson, but the D-Backs balked and brought in the Yankees so they could get Ian Kennedy. The Yankees were certainly big on Granderson, and Dombrowski wasn’t. If anyone seriously followed the Tigers, it would’ve been apparently a Dombrowski’s growing dissatisfaction with Granderson’s deficiencies.
I’m not saying Curtis isn’t a good or wonderful player, he just didn’t cut the mustard in certain areas, and the Tigers felt they were selling high on him. I agree, and I think in five years time, the Tigers will have walked away from this deal the winner.
What deficiencies are that might I ask, the guy has a career line of .272 AVG, .344 OBP, .484 SLG, .828 OPS, last season his line was .249 AVG, .327 OBP, .453 SLG, .780 OPS, a down season.
He was the leadoff man in Detroit his whole career
Maybe that wasn’t the best role for him in a lineup
The only deficiency I can think of is his struggles with lefties, which the Yankees can more than afford since most of their lineup can all hit lefties well.
I’ve also heard rumblings about him reading balls on defense incorrectly.
What I haven’t heard is that he can’t improve big time this season. I personally feel Granderson had a down season, yet he still had 30 HR and 71 RBI’s and can improve on that in New York in the middle part of the order.
He still has his speed
Is still a solid defensive player
but moreover he is 29 years old, he is not some aged veteran on his last wheels.
Granderson will have a solid season in New York, coming to that Stadium and lineup.
Trading EJ and CG was trading high, and bringing in four players that will make Detroit better, slight step back in 2010 but then move forward 2011 with additional moneys available. Not a salary dump.
Plan is to get younger yet stay competitive, Damon’s money is irrelevant, Tigers can afford it and best of all doesn’t impact beyond 2010 when a lot of money is freed up.
Ilitch is an owner who happens to be a fan and, as his history with Wings and Tigers show, likes the big name FA’s. Personally think it is more Ilitch stepping in the middle of DD plan. Tigers making WS in 06 raised expectations so now you need to stay competitive and get younger after having to overpay to get FA early on…ie Pudge, Magglio etc.
I think this signing:
– shows Ilitch commitment to stay competitive and try to keep attendance north of 2million(pretty remarkable in MI economy).
– Allows the team to get younger and reduces pressure on Jackson and Sizemore as one of them moves to the lower third of the lineup.
– Doesn’t impact the budget after 2010
-Proven top of the lineup performer
Overpaid, yep, who cares; Ilitch can afford it. AL Central has a lot of question marks and is there for the taking, this answers one of the Tiger’s questions…mainlywho will be the top of the order LH hitter. Twins and Sox still the favorites…Tigers not that far behind and IF IF IF the pitching performs it could be another fun season in Detroit.
additionally. they didn’t even increase payroll from 2009. Sheffields 13MM off the books paid for most of this and valverde and polanco’s 4.5 paid for the rest and then some. Granted, there were some major raises in salary to MCab, Verlander, and some minor raises to Bonderman, Willis, Everett, Laird, Guillen, but Rodney and Lyon’s combine 8.5MM off the books paid for most of those and Granderson’s and E-Jax’s money paid for the rest. Additionally, Magglio’s salary decreased by 3MM.
In case you haven’t noticed, Detroit isn’t doing too well economically. It would have been smart for them to decrease their payroll even more so they don’t get screwed in the near future.
They traded Granderson at his minimum value. Last year was possibly his worst season since his rookie year.
Granderson is only 29 and is still in his prime. It was very much possible for him to have a much better year this upcoming season.
how much more do you think they would have gotten for him? what they got was one of baseball’s top 50 prospects in CF, a top-shelf reliever prospect, and a major league ready starter prospect(ian kennedy, even though he went to Arizona, he enabled Tigers to get Schelereth who could be a starter or reliever. I consider the E-Jax part of the trade 1-1, E-Jax for Scherzer.
Take for instance Jake Peavey. His contract is relatively cheap, for a #1 starting pitcher ace of his caliber(look at what the other pitchers of his caliber make). Granderson’s contract is relatively cheap as well for his talent, and for the Yankees anyhow. The White Sox gave up a starting pitching prospect projected as a #3 starter (Richard), a fireballer reliever prospect (aaron poreda) and two other relief prospects.
Or look at what the phillies traded for a year and a half of cliff lee cheap. (thats what they initially were trading for) A #2-3 starter Carrasco, a shortstop prospect, a solid catching prospect, and a relief pitching prospect. Not much more than what Granderson, an inferior valued player, was traded for.
If by age 29, a player STILL CAN NOT hit lefties after years in the bigs, he’s not cut out to be the leadoff man of the future, which is what Detroit signed him to be.
I never said what the Tigers got back wasn’t good enough. I just thought that they could have gotten even more if they were patient with him. He didn’t peak yet. You don’t sell a player like him low.
And what does hitting lefties have anything to do with this? It’s not like he can’t hit righties, that would be an issue. There are much fewer left handed pitchers than right handed pitchers. Just because he can’t hit them doesn’t make him somehow inferior.
For the people who say that the Damon signing negates the reason for the Granderson trade, let me explain what I see. Going into the offseason, the Tigers felt they needed to make some changes. Does anyone think that if they came back with the same team they would be as good as they were last year? How about better than last year? Last year wasnt good enough. So they needed to make changes. A lot of the players had no trade value, due to injuries or bad contracts (Inge, Guillen, Ordonez, Willis, Bonderman, Robertson, Cabrera). Several had limited value (Laird, Raburn, Santiago, Thomas, Zumaya, Galaraga). And some were virtually untouchable (Verlander, Porcello, Avila, Perry, Cabrera). Plus several key players from last year were free agents (Rodney, Lyon, Polanco, Thames). That leaves Granderson and Edwin Jackson. Jackson, being a Boras’ client, was not going to sign, without exploring free agency. Granderson was young, a good defender, signed to a reasonable contract (for now), but had seen his numbers decline the last 2 years. He is still perceived as a solid player, and very few teams would have considered him a step back from their current CF, even at last years numbers. Change was needed and you have to give to get. The other option would be to trade prospects (Crosby, Turner, Satterwhite, Avila).
The Tigers have little on the farm in position players. But they do have Scott Sizemore and Will Rhymes at 2b, and Casper Wells and Clete Thomas in CF. (Wells just had a great Arizona fall league). This made CF and 2b, for the Tigers, positions of depth.
After the trades, and the Free Agent signings, the Tigers now have Max Scherzer in place of Edwin Jackson. (I would have done this trade even up). Scherzer is undercontrol for 3 or 4 more years, and cheaper. Jackson signed for 13.35 mill. over 2 years. They have Valverde to replace Rodney, who signed for 11 mill over 2 years. Zumaya or Perry replace Lyon, who signed for 15 mill over 3 years. Austin Jackson (or a platoon of Casper Wells and Clete Thomas), replaces Granderson. Scott Sizemore replaces Polanco, who signed for 18 Mill. over 3 years. Damon moves into the leadoff spot and DH. Raburn fills the role of Thames, and with Damons signing, becomes the extra infielder as well, bumping Don Kelly to AAA. Damon’s signing may not be the best fit, but is for only one year, and he brings championship experience to the team, and he will have a better OBA, then the Tigers have had in some time at leadoff. Plus they are deeper in the pen with Dan Schlereth, Phil Coke, and Brad Thomas (FA signed for 1 mill.) This will allow for some tinkering in the spring, with Raburn, Seay, and Minor potential tradebait.
And they still have all their top prospects.
I would not have offered any of their free agents the contracts they got elsewhere, and I certainly wouldnt have offered more, to have them return. (Everett returns for less than the Mets gave Cora to be a utility player). Homeruns will probably decline for the team, but Leadoff hitters should not be judged by homeruns. Homeruns dont start rallies. Chone Figgins is probably the best leadoff hitter today, and nobody complains that he doesnt hit more homeruns. Damon is an expensive one year luxury, that shouldnt hurt anyones playing time but Ryan Raburn, and Don Kelly.
Overall, they traded Granderson and Jackson because they needed to change (and improve) the team, and with already having one of the largest payrolls, keep costs in control. Payroll will go up, but even with Damon, it is still less than it would have been had they retained last years team.
I think the White Sox wanted Damon more than they were letting on. Going into the season with A. Jones/ Kotsay/ Vizquel platoon for D.H. does not seem acceptable for a team that thinks they can win a very competitive division.
I think Kenny makes a move before opening day, even if it’s just Hank Blaylock, Gomes or even Jermaine Dye. Any of those guys are better options at D.H.
It was Damon or bust. I don’t see them doing anything else until the trade deadline.
But hey, Andruw Jones is in the best shape of his life!
Seriously though, if Jones can stay healthy, he has the ability to hit 30 home runs in 500 ABs. With that, you might see a decent walk rate and an acceptable OBP. There’s a decent possibility that Jones puts up a .800+ OPS.
No way he gets 500 AB’s. Guillen is going with a “DH by committee” which will consist of Jones, Vizquel, and Kotsay I believe. Of course if he performs he’ll get the bulk of the DH’ing, but I don’t see him approaching 500 AB’s.
it will be blalock, left-handed bat, can play decent 3b, kills righthanded pitchers with power, friends with vizquel and jones from last season, will be cheap. he is the perfect fit for them as a DH/platoon with some spot starts at 3b perhaps. (teahen to RF, Quentin to DH on those days)
Vizquel as DH? This is a joke, right?
Sorry Detroit this move isnt enough for you to keep up with Minnesota or Chicago. Hey but maybe it will help sell tickets or jerseys and give your fans false hope..
You may be right, then again you may be wrong :).
Can Peavy stay healthy?
How will Buhrle hold up?
Danks showed a few chinks last season.
Rios, will he show up?
Quentin, will he show up?
Gone are Thome and Dye, IIRC, thats 25% of your run production.
Point being there are a lot of ???? regarding the White Sox, just like there are for the Twins.
For the Record, I think White Sox win the division then the Twins then Detroit. I do think it will be close for all three and wouldn’t be surprised to see any of the three win it.
Why do people ask whether or not Buehrle can hold up when he’s pitched 200 innings for the past 8 seasons?
I know there’s the argument that his workload can make him unreliable since he’s now in his 30s, but you also have to think about Mark Buehrle’s stuff. He throws in the mid 80s and he doesn’t throw many pitches that stress his arm (mainly fastball, cutter, change, with a curve thrown in here or there).
It’s very unlikely that Buehrle does not hold up.
This is the BS Joe Cowley has been peddling at the Sun Times over the last 2 years…
There are questions like this for every team, but asking if Buerhle will hold up is like asking if Jeter will hold up. The likelihood is so strong, that it isn’t even worth a question.
Regarding injuries and the DL, the Chisox are the best in MLB with respect to time/money lost due to injuries.
Let me get this straight: He turned down a 2 year $14mm deal months ago with the Yanks because Boras said he could do better. So he signs a 1 year $8mm with the Tigers, complete with a no trade clause. In a perfect world, Boras would be out looking for a real job. Maybe its because Damon is thinking of re-uniting with the Yanks in July if Gardner flops for the Yanks. Who knows what evil lurks…..
Here is the final opinion that I have in this sorry ordeal. The Tigers started this offseason out by getting a bit younger and cheaper, NOT REBUILDING!! I have heard several people say that this signing makes no sense because of trading Granderson. Curtis Granderson was one of my favorite players for alot of different reasons, but one of them was not offense. Those of you who are not Tigers fans have no idea how many times this guy left RISP with less than two outs by striking out. Here is what he has batted against LH’s over the last 4 years. 2006/.218, 2007/.160, 2008/.253, 2009/.183. And on top of that you have the strikeout totals as well. 2006/174, 2007/141, 2008/121, 2009/141. This is not a leadoff hitter and thats what the Tigers needed this offseason. Austin Jackson may not be that either, so thats why this deal makes sense. Austin Jackson and Scott Sizemore are young and very talented, but did not need to be given the added pressure of having to reach base as much as a #1 and #2 hitter are expected to do in order to be succesful. And as far as your comment Danks50;
“However with the length of those two deals how do you sell that your competing by trading away/not resigning two of your better overall players from the year before and fill those positions with unproven rookies?”
NEWS FLASH, YOU HAVE TO PLAY ROOKIES AT SOME POINT OR THEY WOULD ALWAYS BE ROOKIES!! You do this for many reasons. One, the money we saved by not signing an aging Placido Polonco helped consumate the deal for Verlander. Scott Sizemore has been a very fine player in the minors for 2 years now and was also tearing it up in the AFL before breaking his ankle. He has batted over .300 the last two years and walks just as much as he strikes out (Sounds alot like another recent Tiger 2nd baseman) and has shown some extra base pop as well. Should we leave him down in AAA till he’s in his 30’s before bringing him to the The Show? And he also doesn’t cost the Tigers 3 years and $18M like Polonco. Austin Jackson also looks like a very solid prospect that may be ready for the big leagues this year. Will he come right in and show the same kind of power that Grandy did? Probably not, but thats where a signing like Damon comes in to play. And for the people on this page who say that Detroit bid themselves into 1 year/$8M, Tampa Bay and from what I am hearing Toronto were outbidding the Braves and the White Sox so that statement holds water anyway. And as for a no-trade clause, what the hell is the big deal? If the Tigers are out of it by late June or early July (which I hardly doubt will be the case) do you really see Johnny Damon saying “Hell no Dave D, I want to stay here and finish up this sub .500 season!!” This is just a way to make sure that he gets to go to a team that he prefers, which would be a contender, which is the only type of team that would want him at the deadline anyway. Can’t really see the Pirates or the Nationals pinning for him in July, can you?? So in closing, this IMO is a fine signing by the Tigers, and I commend you Mike Illitch. For those of you who call Mr. I an idiot for his spending, thats fine! I personally am happy to have the owner of my favorite sports team be willing to open the check book and bring in someone in late February who he thinks can make them a contender. I’d much rather have someone like that calling the shots than an owner who will take every available buck and pocket it rather than putting it back into the team. This year will be fun to watch and next offseason will be amazing as well. We will have all the mistakes (And yes, I am calling the DD contracts of 06-08 mistakes) coming off the books (Bonderman, Inge, Guillen, Ordonez, Willis, Robertson, Sheffield-WE ARE STILL PAYING THAT GUY!) and if I know my “Free loading, reckless, idiotic” owner Mr Illitch, he will be putting the majority of that $$$ right back into the team and we will be LOADING UP!!! But for now, thank God this is over and let’s play some ball!!!
Some of the deals signed this offseason have been laughable. This is definitely one of them. Were the Tigers that afraid of the White Sox stealing Damon that they had to offer him 8mil? Damon is worth close to that but still, another case of a team overpaying for a player.
They overpaid by $3-$4 million, big deal the Tigers can handle it. It’s laughable because Boras wanted something like 3 years $36 million.
i’d hate to see you buying a car.
salesman: oh i’m sorry sir, that man over there already purchased this vehicle here
alphabet_soup5: hah! i will not only match his offer, but i will offer $10,000 more, because i CAN
In other news, Dave Dombrowski insists on paying $4.50 for a gallon of unleaded gasoline.
8 million dollars?…..Exactly who were the Tigers bidding against? The closest bid I heard about was for 4.5 million, why would any team outbid themselves?
I heard the WS offer was 6.5 million. And they were willing to jump back in. Look, the Sox would have love to have him. That’s not me, that’s what KW, AJ and Peavy said. There are questions on every team in the Central and it should be a heck of a 3 way race.
Tigers: An 82 win team with a $130M payroll. Can we just change their name to the Detriot Cubs?
learn to spell DETROIT!
Mike Illitch has taken the place of Tom Hicks as Scott Boras’ chump
I wonder if Cabrera will be available at the deadline
The tiger are definatly looking good for this year..with the addition of johnny damon at the lead off spot to take over grandersons departure i see them being atop the A.L central were they belong. ive been waiting for the tigers to get back in the playoffs since 06 and have had season tickets for 5 years when they were real terrible. its time for them to go all the way….GO TIGERS!!!
theres no doubt johnny damon will help the tigers as he takes over the lead off spot after grandersons departure. with a couple more additions the the bull pen i think the tigers are going to be back on top of the american league central where they belong. possibly another visit to the world series although this time with better results…GO TIGERS!!