3:53pm: The Rockies are out on Hudson as well as Felipe Lopez, writes Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post.
Meanwhile, Nationals manager Jim Riggleman said on Sirius XM's MLB Home Plate show today that GM Mike Rizzo "feels confident that we’re going to get [a Hudson deal] done," but other teams are interested and taking a lower-than-expected contract "might be a little bit of a hard pill to swallow" for the player.
11:15am: Ladson tweets that the Indians, Rockies, and another AL team – not the Twins – are in on Hudson, aside from the Nationals. He adds in another tweet that Hudson "appears unwilling to play for the Nats at a discount."
Still, Olney does believe (via Twitter) the Twins have shifted their focus from pitching to an infielder, perhaps given Nick Punto's recent surgery and Francisco Liriano's impresive winter ball stint.
9:25am: Let's try to decipher the latest rumors involving free agent second baseman Orlando Hudson. MLB.com's Bill Ladson expects a decision this week (Twitter).
Yesterday, ESPN's Tim Kurkjian wrote the Nationals "appear to be getting closer to signing" Hudson. The deal "would be for $3 million with incentives that could easily reach $4 million for 2010." Kurkjian cautioned that Hudson had not signed off on Washington's offer. Also on Sunday, Ladson countered Kurkjian's report with two Tweets. Ladson said Nationals GM Mike Rizzo hadn't talked to Hudson's agent "in a couple of days," and if Hudson's price is coming down "that's news to Rizzo."
This morning, ESPN's Buster Olney tweeted that the Twins "appear to be serious in their pursuit of Hudson." On Saturday, La Velle E. Neal III of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune wondered if the Twins were "looking harder into acquiring Hudson" based on TwinsFest comments. Neal's colleague Joe Christensen doesn't believe the Twins would go to $3MM for Hudson.
I really hope the Twins don’t miss this opportunity. I really dont like a Harris/Punto bottom of the lineup…adding Hudson and batting him 2 would make our lineup more formidable. Although it is an even year which means Punto will be good this year (sarcasm). Just get it done…Hudson this week…Mauer next week. Watch the season ticket packs sell.
O-Dog going to the Nats would be a great signing for them. It could keep Marquis’ playoff streak alive – Nats wildcard in 2010? Unlikely, but conceivable. Rotation of Marquis, Lannan, Strasburg, S. Olsen and JD Martin may be adequate, although clearly inferior to rotations of Phils and Braves.
Hudson would really, really, really help the Twins. With him batting 2nd, adding his defense and his speed it could really be advantageous to what the Twins already have. I just hope they can get it done. It makes our lineup that much more formidible that its well worth the chance. Its sets up our offense in so many more ways that don,t show in statistics. Only people who watch the team every day know this.
This would be a huge signing for the Twins. Here’s a sample lineupCF Span2B HudsonC Mauer1B MorneuaRF CuddyerDH KubelSS HardyLF Young3B Punto/Harris/ValenciaWOW . . . or against RightiesCF Span2B HudsonC Mauer1B MorneauRF CuddyerLF KubelDH Thome SS Hardy3B Punto/Harris/ValenciaThis off day lineup would be ridiculous. 3-8 all have the ability to knock out 25 -30 homeruns.
Why would you have Thome in against lefties? The more logical thing would be to have him in against righties and Delmon in against lefties… But good signing if it happens.
I realized I goofed that up and changed it right away haha, yah I realize that would just be stupid.
Punto’s wrist surgery is unrelated. They know exactly who and what he is and the wrist thing is not a big deal. So what could have changed lately that would prompt interest in Hudson? 1. The forward progress of everyone else in the AL Central seems to be stopped. 2. Liriano’s winter ball extravaganza has him looking a lot more like 2006 than 2009.Management could be feeling they could make some serious hay with a relatively minor investment in Hudson. This is my guess, but I admit to having some hope in there clouding things up.
This makes too much sense for the Twins. They’d have to spend less than 5% of their total payroll, and acquire a player who fills on obvious hole. While I understand their eagerness to acquire another starter, the upgrade at second base is more significant than the 5/6th starter however much we might need that person. There’s no reason to believe that all five of Perkins/Liriano/Duensing/Swarzak/Manship will fail.
Exactly. You’ve already got Baker-Blackburn-Slowey-Pavano and then a mix of 5th guys, including Liriano. I see zero need for a starter. Liriano’s pretty primed to rebound.
You just can’t count on Liriano at this point (though we’re all encouraged by what we’ve heard from the winter dominican league); what’s key is the redundancy of players who now have a bit of seasoning and some (Duensing) have had success.
Getting Hudson would make the Twins automatic favorites in the division, unless Kenny Williams wakes up and gets his team a DH.
Thome won’t hit against lefties. Righties would be a bit more logical and Delmon against lefties.
Completely agree this would be a major upgrade for the Twins. Good defense AND a major league caliber bat at second base at the same time…dare I dream?
Dreaming the Twins sign a good free agent is like dreaming the Vikings win a Super Bowl.
The truth of this comment hurts a bit.
If they were willing to throw 5 mil at Washburn, this should be an absolute no-brainer for the Twins. Incentive him up to 6-7, pencil him in at the 2 spot and this line-up – well I don’t know if they’ve ever had one this solid going into a season.
Although it was reported much afterwards, the local twins beat writers said that the offer to Washburn was before Pavano accepted arbitration and they haven’t talked since. I very much hope that’s the truth as I want the Twins to stay far away from Washburn.
Agreed. Also since they just opened discussions w/Mauer and this came up over the weekend, maybe my theory on him saying “We’re starting the season with Punto at 2B and Harris/Tolbert at 3B? Really?” may actually be true! :p
Signing Washburn would actually be a pretty bad idea. He wasn’t any better last year than he has been in the past, he was just incredibly lucky to have the Mariner’s defense behind him for most of the year. That money would be better spent on risk/reward type guys like Wang and Bedard, who would at least be TOTR starters if healthy.
So is that potential Hudson deal for $3m plus incentives that could make it $4m or for $3m + a potential $4m in incentives that could make it $7m?
I don’t quite get the distain for Nick Punto coming from Twins fans. Look I realize he has absoluely no power but he has several other strong points. Let me give you my take on him as an outsider.
Cons:
-Hit .228/.337/.284 resulting in a .621 OPS last year
-Has no power with a .056 ISO and only 4HR in the past three seasons.
-He makes 4M this year
Pros:
-He was actually pretty unlucky last year. He hit a greater percetage of LD and GB (as these result in a higher rate of hits) but his BABIP fell 20 points off of his career average when it should have risen based on LD% and GB% raises.
-He has a very good eye at the plate getting almost as many walks (61) as strikeouts (70) with a nifty 14.5 BB%
-If you adjust his stats last year by taking out the BABIP gap and add in a bit for the increased LD&GB rates he could be looking at a line right about .250/.360/.300 which would be just fine in the #9 spot. Its not like he has never been a good contact hitter as he has hit .284 and .290 in the last four years.
-According to UZR/150, Punto would be in the great-to-elite catagory at 3B with a career UZR/150 at third base of 19.9.
So in summary, if Punto is just has average luck and keeps his increasing periferals steady the Twins could have a great fielding 3B with a OBP that works in the #9 spot, and keeping 3B warm for Valencia, while not eating 4M with him sitting on the bench.
I hope I can speak for many when I say this…Punto is alright as a stopgap to something greater at 3b. Its the Punto/Harris potential bottom of the lineup that makes us nervous.
“I don’t quite get the distain for Nick Punto coming from Twins fans.”
Missed that playoff game against the Yanks, eh?
Punto’s numbers at 3B are skewed by his one career year there (’06). Not his fault, but the Twins urge to lock him up so early last off-season to that ridiculous contract while much more talented guys signed later on for much less didn’t help, especially when you come off of that and throw a .228/.337 out there.
Fortunately it’s an even numbered contract year, so good Nick will show up again and further cement his status as Gardy’s cabana boy. At least until he slides head first into 1B and hurts himself for the 20th time.
“Missed that playoff game against the Yanks, eh?”
Punto hit .444/.583/.556/1.139 in that three game series against the Yanks (better than Mauer mind you). What the heck are you talking about?
Game 3
Bottom 8th: Minnesota
– P. Hughes relieved J. Chamberlain
– N. Punto doubled to left
– D. Span singled to second, N. Punto to third, N. Punto out at home
Running through a stop sign with no outs on an infield hit with your team down by 1 – priceless.
More like traumatic. =
When I first thought back about the play I chuckled. When I watched it again it put me right back to the moment and the word definitely is traumatic.
The only thing missing is the overhead shot with him running head down right by Ullger’s outstretched arms. Again, not his fault for cashing in, but when you hear about guys that can be had for a few mil and the Twins say they don’t have it, guess whose deal comes to mind first.
I hate that I even had to go find a link to this video:
mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200910117044677�…
Bonehead plays like this are only part of the reason for the general disdain toward Punto. The other is the fact that we constantly give him shot after shot at a starting role and then end up surprised when he’s hitting .211 at the All-Star Break with a .590 OPS and we’ve got no better options.
The fact that even after floundering in two different attempts at an everyday role for the majority of the season (a five-week hot streak salvaged his 2008), we signed him and gave him $9MM is just painful. There’s no reason he should be making as much as he is, and the fact is that it could very well cost us a shot at a better offensive option who could likely field a little bit too.
No, Hudson’s glove isn’t near Punto’s, but he’d be an upgrade to the Twins over the current outlook of Punto/Harris. An extra $2MM-$2.5MM to spend on him would be nice right now, but it’s going to a vastly overpaid and overutilized resource.
Hey don’t get me wrong, I’d LOVE to have him platoon at 3B this year. I just think we can improve massively over a 2B Punto and a 3B Harris if we picked up Hudson. Move Punto to 3B and let him battle Harris for starts. He’s a great 3B defender, and if you’re right, and his luck bounces back, he’s completely serviceable. If Harris managed to outplay him, even better.
Punto is nothing more than a util guy who has a good glove. Say all you want for him but lets face it he is lucky to be in the majors. I can count more 2B/3B bench players on the other 29 teams that I would like starting over him than players starting at 2B/3B that I would want Punto over. Take that back the Royals have more bench players (Aviles, Bloomquist, Fields, Getz) that I would rather have starting than Putno than guys I would rather have Punto starting over who have starting jobs at 2B/3B on the other 29 teams.
Fact Ray Ordonez has a higher career batting avg than Punto and more seasons hitting over .240 and he had a lot better glove than Punto could dream of and he only lasted 7 MLB seasons. Punto is starting his 8th!
So you are going to base your entire arguement on BA and just throw out everything else about the player? Very shrewd.
Just what is Punto good at? Lets see here; avg speed, no power, can’t hit for avg, bad contract, above avg glove, avg eye (BB/K rate), not young anymore and has no potential. That makes him a below avg player and a fringe MLB player. Don’t get me wrong I was cheering my ass off for the guy in August a few years back when he got over the .200 mark getting 3 hits in one game (game not week)!!!
“avg speed”
~20 SB over a full year is solidly above average for a 3B
“no power”
Yeah, he has no power.
“can’t hit for average”
He has hit .290 and .284 in two of his last four seasons and a bit of bad luck last year brought his average down. I wouldn’t say ‘can’t’, I would say ‘certainly can but may not’.
“bad contract”
Maybe so, but I have no idea what this has do do with what he is good at.
“above average glove”
No, I would say his glove is way above average and into the elite range of thirdbasemen. The metrics and scouts both likely agree with me on this. On a team like the Twins where most of their staff induces contact this becomes a HUGE plus in a thirdbasemen.
“avg eye”
Again, I’m not seeing how you can say a BB/K near 1.0 and a BB% of 14.5% is just ‘avg’. Those kinds of rates are very very good.
“not young anymore and has no potential”
So he is 32, thats not that old. I’ll give you he doens’t have much potential but he is certainly not in the fall off the cliff at any moment type old.
“That makes him a below avg player and a fringe MLB player”
No, no it doesn’t.
“avg speed”
~20 SB over a full year is solidly above average for a 3B
– yes 20 SB over a “FULL” year is solid for a 3B or 1B or C. Most 3B are power guys very few teams play speed guys at 3B. But yet guys like Arod, Wright, Figgins, and Reynolds are all better speed guys. Also Punto is not a good base stealer. 16/19 last year was his career best, other years 15/21, 16/22, 17/23, and 13/21. Overall 74.6% rate most teams don’t let players run who are under 75%. So sure he would make top 5 for a fantasy 3B for SB’s but MLB wise he is avg.
“no power”
Yeah, he has no power.
“can’t hit for average”
He has hit .290 and .284 in two of his last four seasons and a bit of bad luck last year brought his average down. I wouldn’t say ‘can’t’, I would say ‘certainly can but may not’.
– and in the last five seasons he has also hit .228, .210, and .239. Also lets look over those 5 years with what the average AL batting average was for that season.
2009 AL .267 Punto .239 -.028 below avg
2008 AL .268 Punto .284 +.018 above avg
2007 AL .271 Punto .210 -.061 below avg
2006 AL .275 Punto .290 +.015 above avg
2005 AL .268 Punto .228 -.040 below avg
“bad contract”
Maybe so, but I have no idea what this has do do with what he is good at.
– put that in because it hurts the team having a bad contract. 2 years 8.5MM was a very bad contract that year. Many high end players signed for the same type of money or less. Punto is no where near that type of money.
“above average glove”
No, I would say his glove is way above average and into the elite range of thirdbasemen. The metrics and scouts both likely agree with me on this. On a team like the Twins where most of their staff induces contact this becomes a HUGE plus in a thirdbasemen.
– I say he is above average because that is what he is. Yes at 3B he is stud with his glove vs many big sluggers who play 3B. 2B and SS he is above average but not elite.
“avg eye”
Again, I’m not seeing how you can say a BB/K near 1.0 and a BB% of 14.5% is just ‘avg’. Those kinds of rates are very very good.
-If he played a full season he would have well over 100 K’s. In his career his 162 game avg would give him 488 AB’s and 91 K’s with 55 BB’s. Full everyday season would net him 550 AB’s to 600 AB’s. Yes he can draw a walk but he would be a high K guy also.
“not young anymore and has no potential”
So he is 32, thats not that old. I’ll give you he doens’t have much potential but he is certainly not in the fall off the cliff at any moment type old.
– Most MLB players stats fall off at the age of 32. Most hit their prime at age 27-29 and put up career years. Punto is no Bonds where his stats are going to get better after the age of 32. Also Punto can’t fall off the cliff because he already hit bottom!
“That makes him a below avg player and a fringe MLB player”
No, no it doesn’t.
-I stand by words he is an average player and a fringe MLB player
agreed
bbxxj – Most Twins fans like Punto as a super-sub. He is actually about as good as you could ask for in that position.
The issue is that Gardenhire plays him even if he is hitting .200.
Punto historically hits MUCH better when he plays as a sub. Given a high number of at bats, his numbers tend to fall off.
Probably most of the frustration that comes out against Nick is really frustration that should be leveled at Gardy for playing Punto whether there are better options available or not.
“Punto historically hits MUCH better when he plays as a sub. Given a high number of at bats, his numbers tend to fall off.”
Career as a starter:
.249/.323/.327/.650
Career as a sub:
.238/.312/.262/.574
You sure about that?
not sure how you got those stats but the two years punto hit a baseball he got a lot of AB’s but was a util player filling in for injured players and regular sub time at 2B/3B/SS.
P.S. Nick Punto fan club poll. “What Position Would You Like To See The Punto Play At This Season?” 33% 119 votes start 2B, 31% 111 votes Pitching, 22% 79 votes Util.
Of course he can’t pitch because NL pitchers would make fun of his avg.
His last two years as primarily a starter:
.210/.291.271 and .228/.337/.284
His last year as a sub: .284/.344/.382
These are the stats to which Twins fans are referring.
I have to say that Ladson’s tweet was pretty silly. It is clear that Hudson doesn’t want to play for anybody “at a discount,” or else he would have signed by now. Twitter does constrain details, so perhaps he means that Hudson is not willing to play for the Nats at a discount from the ridiculous $9M price he put on himself.
If that is the case, then I am disappointed, because it suggests that maybe Hudson would play at less than $9 for some other team that might contend. If that is the case, then the book is closed on Hudson in DC. Although I really don’t care about the Lerners’ (Nats owners’) money, I don’t want the team to hurt their future negotiating position with other players by being forced to wildly overpay what other teams must for free agents.
+1/2St.
By the lack of posting by others about the Indians inclusion in this discussion, it seems like their inclusion was a waste of ink (and keystrokes). The Indians are NOT in on the O-Dawg.. not now..not ever.. it doesn’t make sense for them…
Career as a starter:
.249/.323/.327/.650
This is why I’m excited about seeing Hudson in a Twins uniform. I think Punto has a role on this team (though not at 4 mil – but that’s besides the point), starting at second or third for 150 games shouldn’t be it.
CMON TWINS PLEAASE!
The source of the Indians, Rockies, and “another AL team not the twins” just confirmed to me on twitter that HIS source specifically said the Twins were not in the picture. Here’s to hoping he’s REALLY wrong…
I followed Hudson last year with the dodgers up to the all star break Hudson was among the league leaders in hits and batting avg. After the break the Hudsons bat just vanished. Prehaps he played injured and it was not made public but it was Jekyll and Hyde season for Orlando. Torre benched him during the last few weeks of the season and into the playoffs. In the field he was very good so not sure what to make of him.
yeah, if hudson’s idea of “discount” is <$8-9m/year, it's kind of silly to even talk about it (regardless of which team it is).
oh, and ladson's a maroon. some of the stuff he posts is laughable, at best. i wouldn't be putting much, if any, stock in what he says.
Forget Hudson, he’s not going to Minnesota unless he’s willing to tak $3 million or less, and he can get that plus with the Nationals. He’s weighing whether to take a million or or so more and not be playing in October, or sign with the Twins or Rox and have a chance at a ring.
Hes a maroon? Like a shade of red/purple?
Had to say that sorry….but I think Hudson will be with the Nats, which will really help that team defensively and offensively. If they get him, do they really have a weak spot in the line-up? Any kind of pitching this team will be a pain in the a** for NL east teams that think its a weak spot on their schedule. Storen may make the team (10th player picked in first round) as a closer type. But 2011 this team could be, with Strasburg in the rotation, a real force for the wild card spot or at least contend. I like what they are doing..
yes, i guess kids just don’t watch bugs bunny any more. that was his way of saying moron, by saying “what a maroon.”
*sigh*
good cover up, I’ll drink to that…lol
hey! i actually meant that (not that you shouldn’t drink anyway… ;)).
Ooops sorry, I’ll have to sharpen up on my “bugs bunny” I guess. BTW just picked up some Nats spring training tickets as I live close to the spring training complex.
Picked up a 3 game deal, Yanks, Tigers and Cardinals vs Nats…$57 for 3 games and there is not a bad seat in the house. I’m a Nats/Yanks fan being originally from the northeast. Love Florida and spring training baseball. Big Zimmerman fan…good guy
ladson has made some pretty stupid comments with the ten year extension for mauer a hudson signing would put them as one of the favorites to go to the world series
bbxxj are you trying to tell me that Punto is just as good as Hudson? If you are not telling me that, please quit trying to make Punto sound better than he is, or isn’t for that matter. And to the kid that says Hudson’s glove is not as good as Punto’s, you may be right if you’re talking about 3rd/SS, but at 2nd base they are about equal, last season Hudson did get his 4th gold glove though. With all that in mind, why would the twins not swoop in and pick up Hudson. And Hudson is a .286 hitter or something around that while hitting around 10hr. Sounds like a huge upgrade for any infield where 2nd base hit like 3hr and batted well under average.
Frankly at this point would you rather have Hudson coming off a year where he lost his starting job or a guy two years younger in Lopez who had one of his better years? I’d be happy if the Twins landed either.
Now if the twins could make either of those deals this would be an amazing offseason for them