Some links for Sunday…
- As A's were unable to land Adrian Beltre and Marco Scutaro this offseason, GM Billy Beane says that the club had to work harder than ever to fill their holes, writes MLB.com's Jane Lee.
- Cody Ross' arbitration hearing with the Marlins will take place tomorrow morning at 10:00, tweets Joe Frisaro of MLB.com. Ross – who is one of seven remaining players who has an arbitration hearing scheduled – is seeking $4.45MM while the Marlins are countering with $4.2MM.
- Maury Brown of Biz of Baseball brings us the record of each club in arbitration hearings since the process was first put into place in 1974. In this span, the A's have had the most hearings with 35.
- Brady Gardiner of Sirius XM Radio tweets that Ryan Franklin's agent said that in 2007, his client turned down a more lucrative offer from Toronto to sign with the Cardinals in order to play for Dave Duncan. Franklin signed a one-year, $1MM deal with St. Louis in January of '07.
- Dustin Pedroia takes exception to those who question Boston's offense in 2010, writes WEEI.com's Rob Bradford. Pedroia feels the Red Sox lineup can score more runs than the 2009 club. He also voices high praise for Josh Beckett and says he wants Beckett around "for a long time."
- Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Dispatch answers 10 questions for Cardinals fans, and notes that Russ Springer would take a marked-down contract to return to St. Louis. St. Louis stands to enter camp with rougly a $92,625,000 payroll
- Sid Hartman of The Minneapolis Star Tribune says that Twins' owner Jim Pohlad may have to change his policy of not deferring money if they want to re-sign Joe Mauer. Hartman says Mauer would save millions in income tax by deferring some payments until after he retires.
- Joel Sherman of The New York Post names his winners and losers of the offseason. Roy Halladay and the Twins head the winners, while the Dodgers and Royals highlight the losers.
- Nick Cafardo of The Boston Globe runs down each team's offseason, and looks at what lies ahead for each during the 2010 season.
Diamondbacks are in the winner column? Apperantly trading two young affordable pitchers for an older version of said pitcher, who refuses to avoid arbitration for his new club, is a winning deal.
Edwin Jackson is a solid pitcher who has a chance to win 18 games this season. The Diamondbacks also got Ian Kennedy in that deal to go along with signings of Adam LaRoche and Kelly Johnson.
Johnson was a good pickup, but using wins as a gauge for pitching effectiveness is not the way to go. Scherzer could end up being a cheap ace while Jackson doesn’t K enough and BBs too many and has outperformed his FIP last year by almost a run. That is not a recipe for sustained success.
Try telling a GM that when you try to negotiate a contract.He will laugh you out of his office.
I don’t even know what you are referring to here. The wins statement? Do you really value wins from a pitcher? It is a stat that tells us even less about a pitcher than BA does a hitter, antiquated and useless by now. I also don’t see you or I negotiating contracts with a GM anytime soon. What a pointless statement.
Your Opinion, of course who cares about your opinion.
Stating that a Win for a pitcher is useless has turned into much more than an opinion. Wins are ANYTHING but an indicator of future success. Why is that so hard to understand?
The Diamondbacks don’t see Scherzer as an starting pitcher. His pitch selection isn’t good enough. Therefore, they traded 2 bullpen arms for 2 starters.
Also, Jackson is running out of arb years while Scherzer still has plenty of team control left making him even more valuable and Jackson less.
Ok but when Jackson pitches better than Scherzer you’ll know what I mean
Stats and stuff both say Scherzer will be the better pitcher this year.
Edwin Jackson was the product of a good first half and has horrible peripherals. Ian Kennedy has not thrown a meaningful pitch (pitching one inning last year doesn’t count) in 2 years.
18 wins with that offense? Not happening.
Obviously.
š
Royals are one of the losers? That’s a joke.
We’ve added one minor multi-year deal in a defensive catcher that will be here for the perfect timing by the time Wil Myers gets up here, not to mention the mentor he will be to him.
Next, the Royals did not give Yuneski Betancourt a multi-year deal, and all the deals he mentioned are from past off-seasons.
Not even going to talk about Willie Bloomquist, which he mentioned.
Funny how he fails to mention the massive speed and defense we added, a replica of the 70s and 80s Royals.
He fails to mention the Royals locking up the 2nd best international prospect at a very cheap price.
And finally, doing all this with a small budget. Scott Podsednick for 1.75MM? Brian Anderson for 800K? Traded one of our worst defensive fielders in Mark Teahan for good power, defense, and speed, at league minimum salary.
His only basis on calling the Royals a loser this off-season is a 2 year/6MM deal that was given to Jason Kendall, which is questionable as he’s an old hitless catcher, but market value, and still will keep an OBP 40 points higher than Olivo.
They did previous trade for Betancourt however..
That said I do agree saying the Royals had a losing offseason is a little silly when you compare it to other teams who had higher expectations. No one was expecting the Royals to do anything… they did just that. What, were they supposed to try to acquire Cliff Lee? Ultimately this team is only going to improve internally by developing Montgomery, Moustakas, Crow, Melville, and Hosmer… and of course trying to get Hochevar to achieve his potential.
Don’t forget Gordon too.
The Royals did take steps backward though, and their signings make little sense in relation to the club they already controlled. They paid more money on a multi year deal to a 35 yo catcher just to downgrade the position and brought in 3 CF to bury a similar/better talent on the depth charts (Maier). The Teahen for Fields and Getz trade was a really good one for the club, but when coupled with the OF additions (forcing Guillen to DH) it created a situation where the team now has about 30 players to squeeze onto the 25 man roster – including 7 OF, 4 MI, 4 Corner IF and a super-utility guy vying for 11 spots. On the outside will almost certainly be one of the few players who without a doubt should be apart of the team; Ka’aihue. Not to mention their acquisitions go completely against the defense, OBP and youth they claimed were their focus.
It is such a confusing offseason for KC. It makes zero sense and perpetuates a running joke of incompetence.
Kinda rough on the Phillies and Royals, I think.
Obviously it means nothing until they actually perform, but this year, our entire OF defense is above avearge. Our infield defense is avearge. We have massive speed, and 30 HR power potential in two different guys.
Obviously, it wasn’t an off-season that will launch us into 1st place, but hell, just the fact that Noel Arguelles was signed, and at the price he was signed, and that no big money commitments were made for the future, puts the Royals off-season above many other teams.
Sherman’s post is a laugh and a half. How are the Phillies on the loser part, but the BoSox are on the winner part? I totally disagree with the Dodgers and Royals being in the loser part, they should be in the neutral part. They mad some low-key signings, minus Kendell on the Royals part. Mets and Indians should be #1 and #2. Giants should be in the neutral part. Yankees and the Rockies deserve to be higher. The Jays should be moved down more. And, Sherman most definitely biased against California teams.
really? the dodgers highlight the losers? I know we didnt get halladay or get injury prone lackey but we gave contracts to our young core and that should count as something. im just not happy that they highlight the losers.
They bought out 1 season of arbitration on Ethier paying roughly value, 1 season of arbitration on Kemp paying a bit below value and 1 season of arbitration on Broxton paying something in the ballpark of value. They didnāt lock up any young players ā the three contracts signed merely extend 1 season each covering seasons they had control of anyway and do not cover any free agency seasons at all.
They signed 4 backup infielders which they will couple with a young light-hitting 3B to try and find a second baseman, gave a hefty sum to a pitcher hardly anyone wanted for the forth spot, signed two more has-beens to compete for the 5th starters spot and ate 10.5 Million (57%) of the Pierre contract just to get rid of him before handing nearly a million to a similarly valued forth outfielder. They also offered arbitration to no one despite the strong chance for huge draft pick rewards ā Wolf especially was a no brainier and would have meant 2 early draft picks.
Really bad offseason
I’d tend to mostly agree, though it’s pretty obvious Colletti was hamstrung by the ownership situation. I would actually put getting rid of Pierre and $8 million to be a net positive, as I’d rather have Reed Johnson over Pierre straight up. I can see not offering arbitration to Hudson, but not doing so to Wolf is indefensible as you say.
Light hitting 3B? Who? Casey Blake will be our 3B. Belliard, a 2B, will most likely start the season, but that is more because they want DeWitt to have a full season in the minors at 2B(remember, he was a 3B until 08 when injuries forced him to move, and last season was called up 7 times, so that he could get into no grove at the plate or get any consistent time with an infield coach).
We gave Padilla 4M I believe. That isnt a hefty sum.
Isnt the point of the 5th spot to have a competition? And the two guys they signed will not be starters. Weaver will be in the pen for the long man role and Russ Ortiz will never see LA. Our 5th starter will be a prospect, one of Elbert, McDonald, Haeger, Stults, Monasterios, Lindblom, or another prospect.
Pierre wouldnt have stayed in LA. He was already complaining about not getting PT and the fact we got money off the payroll and two prospects that could help in the future, we won that trade.
The arbitration was horrible, yes.
But having a bunch on NRIs and not offering arbitration doesnt put you in the category of worst offseason….
“Light hitting 3B? Who? Casey Blake will be our 3B.”
You didnt read the sentence.
“We gave Padilla 4M I believe. That isnt a hefty sum. ”
Until you add the 1 MM signing bonus plus another 1 MM possible in bonuses if he reaches 150-200 IP (a strong possibility he gets them all if he can stay healthy on a team without a 5th starter).
“we won that trade.”
I agree the trade was won, but only in the way the Angels won the Matthews trade. It is still an overall ridiculous loss though and admitting a horrible mistake where you have to eat your way out of it is a negative.
“Isnt the point of the 5th spot to have a competition?”
Sure if you have an Ace and rather sure things 1-4. As it stands though, the team has major questions from 1 to 5.
“They signed 4 backup infielders which they will couple with a young light-hitting 3B to try and find a second baseman.”
When you say young light-hitting 3B are you referring to Blake Dewitt? If so, it’s obvious that you are not well-informed on the Dodgers 3B/2B situation.
“Until you add the 1 MM signing bonus plus another 1 MM possible in bonuses if he reaches 150-200 IP”
If he lives up to this bonus that you so perfectly explain, then 6MM for Padilla will not turn out to be a “hefty sum”. Pretty sweet, actually.
“a strong possibility he gets them all if he can stay healthy on a team without a 5th starter.”
You’re right, the Dodgers don’t have a 5th starter, they have 5 or 6 pretty serviceable starters with decent upside.
āWhen you say young light-hitting 3B are you referring to Blake Dewitt? If so, it’s obvious that you are not well-informed on the Dodgers 3B/2B situation.ā
Blake DeWitt has hovered around the .345 wOBA mark in the minors. If that isnāt light-hitting, I donāt know what is.
ā6MM for Padilla will not turn out to be a āhefty sumāā
Yeah, who cares if similar to better pitchers signed for similar to lessā¦
āYou’re right, the Dodgers don’t have a 5th starter, they have 5 or 6 pretty serviceable starters with decent upside.ā
Iām glad you included the word āDodgersā because I would have thought you were talking about the Nats or Pirates otherwise.
Typical of a troll to search for a statistic that will make Dewitt look bad and yourself, in turn, look good. And when I say that you’re not informed I sincerely mean that you have no idea that Dewitt is not their 3B now and won’t be in the future. So go anguish about getting Silva for Bradley and having truly a worse offseason than the Mets.
“Yeah, who cares if similar to better pitchers signed for similar to lessā¦”
Who? Garland? Marquis? Pineiro? Oh, and you guys have Silva.
“Iām glad you included the word āDodgersā because I would have thought you were talking about the Nats or Pirates otherwise.”
Silva.
Typical of a troll to search for a statistic that will make Dewitt look bad and yourself, in turn, look good. And when I say that you’re not informed I sincerely mean that you have no idea that Dewitt is not their 3B now and won’t be in the future. So go anguish about getting Silva for Bradley and having truly a worse offseason than the Mets.
“Yeah, who cares if similar to better pitchers signed for similar to lessā¦”
Who? Garland? Marquis? Pineiro? Oh, and you guys have Silva.
“Iām glad you included the word āDodgersā because I would have thought you were talking about the Nats or Pirates otherwise.”
Silva.
And just like a team cheerleader to get her knickers in a bunch if a person says anything less than fanatical about her clubā¦
But look, sorry if I gave a stat that matters in the case of DeWitt. Iām guessing you think Batting Average and RBI should be the only two things people keep track of? Well, they donāt mean much of anything. And in the real world when you have a player who has posted an OPS over 800 once outside his short season debut. That translates to under 750 OPS in the majors. Well, unless you root for the team he plays for I guess.
āWho? Garland? Marquis? Pineiro?
Well, letās see
Garland ā equal in 09, better in 08, better in 07. better combined 3 year.
Yep, he works.
Marquis ā better in 09, better in 08, better in 08, better combined 3 year.
He works too.
Pineiro ā better in 09, better in 08, better in 07, better combined 3 year.
As does he
āOh, and you guys have Silva.ā
And what were you saying about Trolling? Lol. Cant make a point yourself so you randomly switch the conversation to a topic you think might disrupt the other side? What are we, 10 year olds in a sandbox arguing over GIJoes? Alright man, whatever you say.
I misread the 3B comment. I do think DeWitt, with a full season in AAA will make waves. Remember, he wasnt supposed to have smelled a Sept callup until this season.
If Padilla pitches 200 innings that means he didnt lose his head and was effective. If not, one of our prospects will have taken over.
The Dodgers seem to be willing to admit their mistakes with guys and get them to leave(Pierre, Jones). If Padilla becomes that mistake, I wouldnt be surprised to seem him gone. If he gets 6M, he did his job and it was a good 6M spent, IMO
I wasnt saying the Pierre signing was anywhere near a positive. All Im saying is we got rid of a problem w/o having to pay him his complete salary(the Chi Sox took on some of his contract) and we got 2 prospects that could have an impact on the 5th rotation spot and a pen spot, possibly as soon as sometime this season.
If you talk to most Dodger fans that follow them more than the box score, they will be OK with our current 1-4. Kershaw and Billingsley are near aces. Billz should be able to pitch well over 200 innings, and Kershaw will be able to go about 190. Billz ERA should go down a fair amount because he wont have the hammy issue. Kershaw’s will go up some, most likely, but will still be very good.
Kuroda is simply nothing more than a badass. He is a tough veteran who when healthy is one of the best #3s in the game.
If Padilla keeps his head on, he is a good pitcher. He has a great, live fastball with a changeup that counteracts it well. If he loses his head, it was a 5M waste… a fair risk for a big market team. By the time he would implode, one of our prospects that didnt win the 5th spot will be ready to step into the rotation, most likely Elbert.
Do we really have ‘major questions’ 1-4? Yea, we dont have that ace that everyone demands a team has. Well, we didnt have one the last two years and did fine. Hell, we havent had one since Penny in like 06. Instead we have 3 above average pitchers, a very talented, but kinda insane #4 and a competition of prospects for the 5th spot. Im ok with it…
And that equals the worst offseason? People need to understand that colletti didnt go out and get another pitcher because he has signed some bad contracts and in the FA market this offseason all there was were mistakes waiting to happen. Sheets- the guy missed a whole year, who knows what to expect from him. Lackey- He has missed a good amount of time in two consecutive years and also wanted a lot of money. Pineiro- Inconsistent (yearly),who knows what pineiro you’ll get. Bedard and Wang- they wont help a club out until june or later. Its not a good offseason but a patient and smart offseason.
And if your refering to russ ortiz and ramon ortiz as the guys we are going to have compete for the 5th start go do some reasearch before you post buddy. those guys were signed to compete for the swingman role out of the bullpen but most likey none will make it.
Getting rid of pierre and getting johnson, probably a good thing.
I think you mean “fourth” not “forth”. Padilla did amazing in the postseason so im glad tohave him back and really, padilla’s contract is hefty? not nearly as hefty as silva’s though. i’ll take padilla over silva any day out of the week.
I guess you cubs fans consider getting rid of bradley a fantastic offseason because all you guys did was cry about how bad he was for the team.
“And that equals the worst offseason?”
There is a strong case for it.
“And if your refering to russ ortiz and ramon ortiz as the guys we are going to have compete for the 5th start”
Oh, I forgot they signed both of them – make it 3 has-beens.
“Getting rid of pierre and getting johnson, probably a good thing. ”
Youre right, but at Johnson at a dollar cost of 11.5 MM?
“padilla’s contract is hefty? not nearly as hefty as silva’s though.”
At a cost between 5-6 Million, yeah that is a hefty sum to a guy no one wanted anywhere near their roster last season. And what the heck does our longman taken on as a salary balance in a dump trade have to do with anything? Seriously, is that the only way Dodger Fans can make an argument? Try to find a weak link in another team and claim relevance? They have nothing to do with eachother.
“I guess you cubs fans consider getting rid of bradley a fantastic offseason because all you guys did was cry about how bad he was for the team.”
The fact I am ultimately a Cubs fan = no relevance.
The fact the Cubs got rid of Bradley = no relevance.
The fact he was bad for the club = no relevance.
I just dont get how you ever thought that would help an argument.
“Oh, I forgot they signed both of them – make it 3 has-beens”
yeah the dodgers gave them minor league contracts so theyre definitely going to make the roster.
“yeah that is a hefty sum to a guy no one wanted anywhere near their roster last season”
LAST SEASON, not this season. I do remember reading that some teams were interested in him.
I’m calling it, vicente is going to throw a no no against the cubs this year.
“yeah the dodgers gave them minor league contracts so theyre definitely going to make the roster.”
Never said any would make the roster – said they would compete for the 5th spot. that said, Weaver and at least one Ortiz seem expected to make the 25man per Dodger sites.
“LAST SEASON, not this season. I do remember reading that some teams were interested in him.”
And who exactly was lining up for him this season, let alone last season?
“I’m calling it, vicente is going to throw a no no against the cubs this year.”
Well you are a good fanboy, arent you?
“And who exactly was lining up for him this season, let alone last season?”
I do not remember saying anyone was “lining up” for him i just said he drew some interest from some teams. And i know the cards were one of the teams that were intersted in him.
“But Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui were wonderful clutch players, and it is going to be hard to replace that.”
Enough already about the clutchness of Damon. Its like the myth that keeps on living, Matsui has more of a case and even he Nick Johnson was better than him in tight spots in games when men were on.
You would think Damon and Matsui were Ortiz and Ramirez in their roid heydays in Fenway, hitting game winning HR’s it seemed every night.
Fact is stranger than fiction indeed
Nick Johnson –
Lead Off An Inning – .392 AVG, .505 OBP, .554 SLG, 1.059 OPS (74 at bats)
None On – .282 AVG, .414 OBP, .386 SLG, .800 OPS (241 at bats)
Runners On – .301 AVG, .439 OBP, .426 SLG, .865 OPS (216 at bats)
Scoring Position – .313 AVG, .488 OBP, .482 SLG, .970 OPS (112 at bats)
Bases Loaded – .364 AVG, .429 OBP, .364 SLG, .793 OPS (11 at bats)
Scoring Position and 2 Outs – .362 AVG, .545 OBP, .532 SLG, 1.077 OPS (47 at bats)
++++++++++++++++++++
Hideki Matsui –
Lead Off An Inning – .221 AVG, .302 OBP, .481 SLG, .783 OPS (104 at bats)
None On – .240 AVG, .330 OBP, .481 SLG, .811 OPS (233 at bats)
Runners On – .309 AVG, .405 OBP, .538 SLG, .943 OPS (223 at bats)
Scoring Position – .303 AVG, .426 OBP, .521 SLG, .947 OPS (142 at bats)
Bases Loaded – .313 AVG, .313 OBP, .375 SLG, .688 OPS (16 at bats)
Scoring Position and 2 Outs – .269 AVG, .437 OBP, .388 SLG, .825 OPS (67 at bats)
+++++++++++++++++++
Johnny Damon
Johnny Damon –
Lead Off An Inning – .234 AVG, .308 OBP, .500 SLG, .808 OPS (94 at bats)
None On – .288 AVG, .373 OBP, .536 SLG, .909 OPS (267 at bats)
Runners On – .276 AVG, .358 OBP, .445 SLG, .803 OPS (283 at bats)
Scoring Position – .299 AVG, .377 OBP, .468 SLG, .845 OPS (154 at bats)
Bases Loaded – .375 AVG, .375 OBP, .750 SLG, 1.125 OPS (8 at bats)
Scoring Position and 2 Outs – .254 AVG, .367 OBP, .478 SLG, .845 OPS (67 at bats)
The Phillies were winners if for no other reason than the Braves and Mets being losers.
they destroyed their farm to lose an ace and get an older one, who they gave 60M. They are really in no better a position than they were at the start of the offseason, and know they dont have top prospects as well. They had one of the worst offseasons(remember, they also signed Palanco to a huge deal to play a position that isnt his usually spot…)
Exactly. Halladay was an unnecessary move. Their other moves, both this offseason and last, are only going to limit what they can do in the future.
I have a feeling that the ‘need’ to get Halladay overtook them and they made a bad trade… that could have a serious impact when the guys leave as FAs in a couple years, none of their top prospects that they had will be there anymore, they will be starring in Sea, Cleveland, Oakland and Toronto
Phils are great but Be humble
I’m not an accountant or a tax attorney, but I don’t understand how the idea that Mauer should take deferred compensation makes sense as a tax strategy.
For one thing, I would guess that the Twins get to take a deduction for Mauer’s salary when they pay it, and this forces them to push those deductions way off into the future, making them pay more tax now.
Simple really. Mauer would pay more in income taxes on a 10-year $250 million deal than he would on a 20-year $250 million deal because he’d be earning less per year under the 20-year scenario and thus pushing his tax payments into the future. Of course you’d have to factor in the time value of money and make assumptions on what sort of ROI Mauer would get on his money, but I don’t want to get too complicated here. This of course assumes that the tax brackets stay constant as well.
“This of course assumes that the tax brackets stay constant as well.”
For these guys making over $1M? Fat chance. In 10 years, all baseball players will pay more in income taxes than they do now.
You may want to do a little research on federal income brackets before making up something you obviously know nothing about. Every dollar earned over $373K is taxed at the highest rate of 35%. Being paid $12M per year for 20 years, or any other combination you want to try, is not going to have any material tax savings over a 10 year $250M deal. Unless they’re planning on paying him $300K for the next 800 years or so…. I guess your point would be valid then. Yeah, I’m sure that’s probably what you meant.
Yeah that didn’t quite come out like I wanted it to. This is all about the time value of money of course, not paying less in terms of pure dollars.
Yeah that didn’t quite come out like I wanted it to. This is all about the time value of money of course, not paying less in terms of pure dollars.
Ouch…you don’t know tax laws either. It is very true that every dollar over 373k per year is taxed at 35%, however every dollar made in a year below 373k is taxed at a lower rate (incremental). By stretching to 20 years there are 20 years of 373k and less taxed at a lower rate. However, this article is stupid because the net benefit is too low especially with a discount rate that is hard to estimate in a struggling economy.
Actually if you spent the time to read my post you will notice that I do. I stated that every dollar OVER $373K is taxed at the highest bracket. My point was there is no MATERIAL tax saving when you take into account that each million after will be paying $350K in taxes (less any tax shelters). Any trying to protect the value of his salary by projecting rates more than 10 years into the future is a bit futile.
Actually if you spent the time to read my post you will notice that I do. I stated that every dollar OVER $373K is taxed at the highest bracket. My point was there is no MATERIAL tax saving when you take into account that each million after will be paying $350K in taxes (less any tax shelters). Any trying to protect the value of his salary by projecting rates more than 10 years into the future is a bit futile.
Ouch…you don’t know tax laws either. It is very true that every dollar over 373k per year is taxed at 35%, however every dollar made in a year below 373k is taxed at a lower rate (incremental). By stretching to 20 years there are 20 years of 373k and less taxed at a lower rate. However, this article is stupid because the net benefit is too low especially with a discount rate that is hard to estimate in a struggling economy.
I’m still confused. I see now how he’ll pay less income tax in a given year. But he also makes less in a given year.
If the benefit of deferring your income tax is in the time value of money, doesn’t the deferred salary cancel out that benefit?
Unless they’re deferring it so far off as to keep his annual salary in five-figures, he’ll be in the top tax bracket regardless.
I’m also confused with how the tax implication work…
I would LOVE to see Russ back in a Cardinals uniform!
id would LOVE to see felipe lopez in a cardinal uniform again as well
and calero, and looper, and isringhausen.
but we wont always get what we want =/
As a Cubs fan, I would love to see Calero in a Cards uniform too! Would be so much better then getting stuck with him ourselves.
Winter Winners and Losers. Whatever. Time to earn respect the old fashion way….on the field. Play Ball!!!!!!!!!!!! and stop all the whining,excuses, and over thinking….the Mets have been humbled, pick yourself up and play for love,heart, and pride … that’s all we want
Interesting read about the deferred money. I had no idea that the would defer for so long. Griffey getting paid by the Reds until 2024! Wow!
I think you can add the Jays into the winners column. Yes they traded Halladay, but when the plan was to rebuild and get the best young talent you can, and you do it very well, I call that successful.
Drabek, Morrow, Wallace, and to a lesser extent d’Arnaud to compliment a now steady farm that includes Arencibia, Alvarez, Stewart, Sierra, Farquhar, Ochinko amongst more underrated prospects. I also don’t think their trading this offseason is done
Jays hopefully will be a solid team in 2 years and competing for the playoffs in 3 or 4.
“When asked if the 2010 lineup had the capability to surpass the 872 runs (third-best in the American League), Pedroia didnāt hesitate.
āAbsolutely. The additions we made to our team I think have a lot of guys that will fit well together,ā he said. āI donāt know whatās the lineup is going to be, but if you look up and down our lineup, guys can find ways to score runs. We can hit home runs, we can steal bases, we can bunt guys over, we can do a lot of things to score runs. You look at other teamsā offense, yeah, they might have more power, but one through nine weāre going to work the count and do a lot things to win games.ā
+++++++++++++++++++++
How many ways can I shred Dustin Pedroia to pieces about what he stated.
You lost your team leader in
Homeruns
RBI’s
Total Bases
Walks
2nd in Runs, Slugging, OPS, 3rd in OBP
replaced him with Mike Cameron on offense and think that is better, its not even close
Ortiz AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS have all been in decline in recent seasons.
Scutaro had a career season at 34 years of age, can you say regression to the mean for him next season.
If their lineup is
LF Ellsbury – .301 AVG, 8 HR, 60 RBI – .355 OBP – .415 SLG – .770 OPS – L
2B Pedroia – .296 AVG, 15 HR, 72 RBI – .371 OBP – .447 SLG – .819 OPS – R
C Martinez – .303 AVG, 23 HR, 108 RBI – .381 OBP – .480 SLG – .861 OPS – S
1B Youkilis – .305 AVG, 27 HR, 94 RBI – .413 OBP – .548 SLG – .961 OPS – R
DH Ortiz – .238 AVG, 28 HR, 99 RBI – .332 OBP – .462 SLG – .794 OPS – L
3B Beltre – .265 AVG, 8 HR, 44 RBI – .304 OBP – .379 SLG – .683 OPS – R
RF Drew – .279 AVG, 24 HR, 68 RBI – .392 OBP – .522 SLG – .914 OPS – L
CF Cameron – .250 AVG, 24 HR, 70 RBI – .342 OBP – .452 SLG – .795 OPS – R
SS Scutaro – .282 AVG, 12 HR, 60 RBI – .379 OBP – .409 SLG – .789 OPS – R
Once you get past Pedroia, Martinez, Youkilis in that lineup no one is scary to face
Sounds to me like Pedroia is blowing smoke
Who is going to work the count as Pedroia claims
Ellsbury and his 49 walks, 74 K’s as a leadoff hitter
Cameron and his 75 walks, 156 K’s
Beltre and his 19 walks and 74 K’s
David Ortiz is no longer the feared threat as he was with Manny
JD Drew, bleh, decent player, nothing to be concerned about that makes you alter your approach to pitching.
“When asked if the 2010 lineup had the capability to surpass the 872 runs (third-best in the American League), Pedroia didnāt hesitate.
āAbsolutely. The additions we made to our team I think have a lot of guys that will fit well together,ā he said. āI donāt know whatās the lineup is going to be, but if you look up and down our lineup, guys can find ways to score runs. We can hit home runs, we can steal bases, we can bunt guys over, we can do a lot of things to score runs. You look at other teamsā offense, yeah, they might have more power, but one through nine weāre going to work the count and do a lot things to win games.ā
+++++++++++++++++++++
How many ways can I shred Dustin Pedroia to pieces about what he stated.
You lost your team leader in
Homeruns
RBI’s
Total Bases
Walks
2nd in Runs, Slugging, OPS, 3rd in OBP
replaced him with Mike Cameron on offense and think that is better, its not even close
Ortiz AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS have all been in decline in recent seasons.
Scutaro had a career season at 34 years of age, can you say regression to the mean for him next season.
If their lineup is
LF Ellsbury – .301 AVG, 8 HR, 60 RBI – .355 OBP – .415 SLG – .770 OPS – L
2B Pedroia – .296 AVG, 15 HR, 72 RBI – .371 OBP – .447 SLG – .819 OPS – R
C Martinez – .303 AVG, 23 HR, 108 RBI – .381 OBP – .480 SLG – .861 OPS – S
1B Youkilis – .305 AVG, 27 HR, 94 RBI – .413 OBP – .548 SLG – .961 OPS – R
DH Ortiz – .238 AVG, 28 HR, 99 RBI – .332 OBP – .462 SLG – .794 OPS – L
3B Beltre – .265 AVG, 8 HR, 44 RBI – .304 OBP – .379 SLG – .683 OPS – R
RF Drew – .279 AVG, 24 HR, 68 RBI – .392 OBP – .522 SLG – .914 OPS – L
CF Cameron – .250 AVG, 24 HR, 70 RBI – .342 OBP – .452 SLG – .795 OPS – R
SS Scutaro – .282 AVG, 12 HR, 60 RBI – .379 OBP – .409 SLG – .789 OPS – R
Once you get past Pedroia, Martinez, Youkilis in that lineup no one is scary to face
Sounds to me like Pedroia is blowing smoke
Who is going to work the count as Pedroia claims
Ellsbury and his 49 walks, 74 K’s as a leadoff hitter
Cameron and his 75 walks, 156 K’s
Beltre and his 19 walks and 74 K’s
David Ortiz is no longer the feared threat as he was with Manny
JD Drew, bleh, decent player, nothing to be concerned about that makes you alter your approach to pitching.
For a team that will be more reliant on “run prevention” in the AL East, Red Sox fans should be more concerned about this disturbing trend in the lineup.
Very poor situational hitting
Runners On –
Ortiz – .246 AVG
Beltre – .248 AVG
Drew – .254 AVG
Cameron – .247 AVG
Scoring Position –
Ortiz – .238 AVG
Beltre – .284 AVG
Drew – .213 AVG
Cameron – .233 AVG
Scoring Position and 2 Outs –
Ortiz – .253 AVG
Beltre – .227 AVG
Drew – .280 AVG
Cameron – .232 AVG
Like I stated once you get past Pedroia, Martinez, Youkilis in that lineup no one is scary to face
I am not looking to start an all out war, but I do agree with some of your comments. Responding to Holy Roman Empire and Larry Duca NY, I strongly believe that both the O’s and Blue Jays, along with the Rays are going to give Boston a run for their money this coming season.
I’ve been very vocal about this. I do not think the Red Sox are fielding a “great” team. They do have a deep rotation, but that has its limits as well. There are many signs that Beckett could have a rough season. We’ll see, but “starting” pitching is certainly their strong point. Bullpen not so much. In terms of the line up, I’m not liking it one bit, not for $170mm + When you put it next to that of the Twins (dominating line up) the Mariners a complete team with players in their prime (even Bradley) or just about any team in the AL beside the Royals and Indians, I wouldn’t be thinking the Sox have the Wild Card locked up just yet.
Let’s not forget they have a payroll north of $170mm and barely have more than a single all star and there is not a single HOF’r on the active roster, not one. There is no real face of the franchise outside of Youk.
I give the O’s and Jay’s a real chance to play well with both teams being packed with top shelf prospects and light payrolls. The Jay’s rotation ain’t that bad. If I were the Sox I’d be very concerned indeed, shoot even the Yanks, but the Yanks age range for example is nothing compared to the Sox. The Sox average age believe it or not is the highest in the MLB. Outside of Jeter, Posada, and Arod and the addition of Winn everyone else is 30 and under for example. If you’re going to have 4 “old” players, I’d take those 4 and Winn at $1.1mm is a steal in comparison to Cameron at 2 for $15mm.
My guess and not saying this as a Yank fan, but as a business person, I do not understand the Sox strategy one bit. I expect them to be 10 out by the All Star break, but we will all see how it plays out on the field, the way it should be.
“There is no real face of the franchise outside of Youk.”
Pedroia, Lester, Papelbon to some extent…
Alright. I’m really not understanding the Blue Jays and Orioles giving the Sox a run for their money arguement. The Orioles, comparing position by position I’d have trouble even taking Markakis over Drew… Drew has a better UZR and posted a .914 OPS last year and Markakis has never broken .900. And for those of you who are about to say what about Weiters… he’s young and still needs time to reach potential. As for the Orioles rotation, their young and if we’re going to make arguments about Beckett having a bad year can’t we also make the arguement that guys like Matsuz and Tillman are young and by the way pitching in the toughest division in baseball?
Same argument with the Blue Jays…to use Macfan1’s arguements, who outside of Lind and Hill is there to fear? Snider has yet to show anything great. Yes, they have a potentially good rotation… but that’s it. That’s their team…
Yes, the Red Sox no longer have major sources of power and their relying on run prevention. But let’s face it… had the Sox signed Bay rather than Cameron, wouldn’t people be making the argument “oh he strikes out too much” or making a point that his clutch stats last year were way over his career stats so he must have been playing for a contract year? How about someone brings up that this team now has VMart for a whole year instead of half of one? I’m simply saying all this talk about the Orioles and Blue Jays challenging the Red Sox is just odd.
“Yes, the Red Sox no longer have major sources of power and their relying on run prevention. But let’s face it… had the Sox signed Bay rather than Cameron, wouldn’t people be making the argument “oh he strikes out too much” or making a point that his clutch stats last year were way over his career stats so he must have been playing for a contract year? How about someone brings up that this team now has VMart for a whole year instead of half of one? I’m simply saying all this talk about the Orioles and Blue Jays challenging the Red Sox is just odd.”
++++++++++++++++++
Well Bay was getting it done in Boston by leading the team in the major offensive categories so that’s all assumption to say what he would have done this coming season, because we know what he did the past season. He was one of their most productive hitters.
Mike Cameron strikes out as much as Jason Bay with far less production
Cameron – .250 AVG, .342 OBP, .452 SLG, .795 OPS, 24 HR, 70 RBI, 75 walks, 156 strikeouts
Bay – .267 AVG, .384 OBP, .537 SLG, .921 OPS, 36 HR, 119 RBI, 94 Walks, 162 strikeouts.
With that kind of production from Bay any team would take the strikeouts, Mike Cameron on the other hand has just as many strikeouts with way less offensive production to provide as the numbers show.
Also you bring up Victor Martinez, it is well known in baseball that Victor Martinez for some reason puts up better numbers as a 1B than as a catcher, and Boston will be using him as their full time catcher next season. The splits show the difference when he caught versus playing 1st base
C – .281 AVG, .363 OBP, .420 SLG, .783 OPS, 8 HR, 50 RBI (317 at bats)
1B – .329 AVG, .405 OBP, .537 SLG, .942 OPS, 13 HR, 51 RBI (255 at bats)
His AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS all decline when catching.
And he is not good behind the plate at throwing out base runners either.
On par percentage wise with Varitek at throwing out runners
Martinez – 56 stolen bases allowed – 9 caught stealing – 13% caught stealing percentage
Varitek – 108 stolen bases allowed – 16 caught stealing – 12% caught stealing percentage
“Well Bay was getting it done in Boston”
3.5 WAR you da maaaaaaaaan
“Well Bay was getting it done in Boston”
3.5 WAR you da maaaaaaaaan
“Yes, the Red Sox no longer have major sources of power and their relying on run prevention. But let’s face it… had the Sox signed Bay rather than Cameron, wouldn’t people be making the argument “oh he strikes out too much” or making a point that his clutch stats last year were way over his career stats so he must have been playing for a contract year? How about someone brings up that this team now has VMart for a whole year instead of half of one? I’m simply saying all this talk about the Orioles and Blue Jays challenging the Red Sox is just odd.”
++++++++++++++++++
Well Bay was getting it done in Boston by leading the team in the major offensive categories so that’s all assumption to say what he would have done this coming season, because we know what he did the past season. He was one of their most productive hitters.
Mike Cameron strikes out as much as Jason Bay with far less production
Cameron – .250 AVG, .342 OBP, .452 SLG, .795 OPS, 24 HR, 70 RBI, 75 walks, 156 strikeouts
Bay – .267 AVG, .384 OBP, .537 SLG, .921 OPS, 36 HR, 119 RBI, 94 Walks, 162 strikeouts.
With that kind of production from Bay any team would take the strikeouts, Mike Cameron on the other hand has just as many strikeouts with way less offensive production to provide as the numbers show.
Also you bring up Victor Martinez, it is well known in baseball that Victor Martinez for some reason puts up better numbers as a 1B than as a catcher, and Boston will be using him as their full time catcher next season. The splits show the difference when he caught versus playing 1st base
C – .281 AVG, .363 OBP, .420 SLG, .783 OPS, 8 HR, 50 RBI (317 at bats)
1B – .329 AVG, .405 OBP, .537 SLG, .942 OPS, 13 HR, 51 RBI (255 at bats)
His AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS all decline when catching.
And he is not good behind the plate at throwing out base runners either.
On par percentage wise with Varitek at throwing out runners
Martinez – 56 stolen bases allowed – 9 caught stealing – 13% caught stealing percentage
Varitek – 108 stolen bases allowed – 16 caught stealing – 12% caught stealing percentage
I agree with your comment regarding Bay. It was definitely a double edged sword. He would have been great to retain, but 100% agree people both in and out of Boston would have critized his strike out rate and so on.
Taking a step back to your face of the franchise response. Pedroia is still a little young and although he had his break out mvp, rookie of the year 2 years ago, I am not seeing that repeated and he is in my opinion similar to a Soriano on the Yanks a few years ago, but with less power. Obviously the Yanks didn’t put a premium on him be a franchise player, that fate could be the same for Pedroia, who knows. Maybe in another 2 or 3 you can start saying he is the face of the team. Lester, while again very very talented, is still too young and has not booked heroic moments yet and have not shown overall consistency outside of being just that, a talented very young pitcher.
Papelbon, well you could be one of the only Sox’s fans that would publicly announce him being part of your face of the franchise. He’s a boob and I have a feeling he’ll be humbled before he takes his next step. In my opinion he is at his high point. He is being paid well, perhaps too well and in is in the spot light.
Again when I think of the Red Sox, I do not think oh wow we’re going to see?? Not like the day’s when Ramierz was around. Or watching Shilling. 2004 was the Red Sox year, I’ll certainly give you that. It was meant to be and they did it. That was a team that was complete and not built by Epstein, who I do not think is a very good GM. Perhaps his value really is in player development and the draft, but I haven’t seen nothing yet and those dividends will not be paid for quite a few more years. Back in 04 those players were household names. Players that will be remembered one way or another, good or bad. Players like Millar who are not all that valuable elsewhere, will be known.
Now, it’s just kind of a meh…type of feeling.
“Epstein, who I do not think is a very good GM. Perhaps his value really is in player development and the draft, but I haven’t seen nothing yet”
lollin’
“Epstein, who I do not think is a very good GM. Perhaps his value really is in player development and the draft, but I haven’t seen nothing yet”
lollin’
I’ll admit, hitting wise this team doesn’t pop. But Lester not having a heroic moment… game 4 world series comeback from cancer. Think people just liked Lance Armstrong because the way he looked? Comeback from cancer is an automatic hero status.
As for Epstein. I’ll use my old standby argument: since 2003 the Red Sox have gone to the playoffs 6 times, won 2 world series, won their first division title since 1995, gone 8-0 in world series play, been in the ALCS game 7 4 times. If results don’t matter I’m not sure what does.
Good point on Lester. Fair enough, mucho respect, but he need’s more of those. He’ll get there. He’s the one of the two players I like in Boston. He’s is your most valuable asset in my opinion.
I don’t want to argue about Epstein. He sucks. That’s a fact. He rode a bit of the wave, he could have done so much more with what he was given years ago.
So. You’re going with opinion…
So. You’re going with opinion…
I wouldn’t want to have to back that position up with an argument either. gg
Good point on Lester. Fair enough, mucho respect, but he need’s more of those. He’ll get there. He’s the one of the two players I like in Boston. He’s is your most valuable asset in my opinion.
I don’t want to argue about Epstein. He sucks. That’s a fact. He rode a bit of the wave, he could have done so much more with what he was given years ago.
I’ll admit, hitting wise this team doesn’t pop. But Lester not having a heroic moment… game 4 world series comeback from cancer. Think people just liked Lance Armstrong because the way he looked? Comeback from cancer is an automatic hero status.
As for Epstein. I’ll use my old standby argument: since 2003 the Red Sox have gone to the playoffs 6 times, won 2 world series, won their first division title since 1995, gone 8-0 in world series play, been in the ALCS game 7 4 times. If results don’t matter I’m not sure what does.
Pedroia is already 27. A little too young ? He should be entering his prime years now.
Like SWP said, Lester came back from cancer, don’t forget the no-hitter too.
I agree with your comment regarding Bay. It was definitely a double edged sword. He would have been great to retain, but 100% agree people both in and out of Boston would have critized his strike out rate and so on.
Taking a step back to your face of the franchise response. Pedroia is still a little young and although he had his break out mvp, rookie of the year 2 years ago, I am not seeing that repeated and he is in my opinion similar to a Soriano on the Yanks a few years ago, but with less power. Obviously the Yanks didn’t put a premium on him be a franchise player, that fate could be the same for Pedroia, who knows. Maybe in another 2 or 3 you can start saying he is the face of the team. Lester, while again very very talented, is still too young and has not booked heroic moments yet and have not shown overall consistency outside of being just that, a talented very young pitcher.
Papelbon, well you could be one of the only Sox’s fans that would publicly announce him being part of your face of the franchise. He’s a boob and I have a feeling he’ll be humbled before he takes his next step. In my opinion he is at his high point. He is being paid well, perhaps too well and in is in the spot light.
Again when I think of the Red Sox, I do not think oh wow we’re going to see?? Not like the day’s when Ramierz was around. Or watching Shilling. 2004 was the Red Sox year, I’ll certainly give you that. It was meant to be and they did it. That was a team that was complete and not built by Epstein, who I do not think is a very good GM. Perhaps his value really is in player development and the draft, but I haven’t seen nothing yet and those dividends will not be paid for quite a few more years. Back in 04 those players were household names. Players that will be remembered one way or another, good or bad. Players like Millar who are not all that valuable elsewhere, will be known.
Now, it’s just kind of a meh…type of feeling.
“My guess and not saying this as a Yank fan, but as a business person, I do not understand the Sox strategy one bit.”
I hear ya man; it’s craziness. Like the old saying goes, hitting wins championships.
“My guess and not saying this as a Yank fan, but as a business person, I do not understand the Sox strategy one bit.”
I hear ya man; it’s craziness. Like the old saying goes, hitting wins championships.
P.S. As persuasive as it is to keep calling that a “$170mm+” lineup, it’s paid about $83m.
P.S. As persuasive as it is to keep calling that a “$170mm+” lineup, it’s paid about $83m.
I am not looking to start an all out war, but I do agree with some of your comments. Responding to Holy Roman Empire and Larry Duca NY, I strongly believe that both the O’s and Blue Jays, along with the Rays are going to give Boston a run for their money this coming season.
I’ve been very vocal about this. I do not think the Red Sox are fielding a “great” team. They do have a deep rotation, but that has its limits as well. There are many signs that Beckett could have a rough season. We’ll see, but “starting” pitching is certainly their strong point. Bullpen not so much. In terms of the line up, I’m not liking it one bit, not for $170mm + When you put it next to that of the Twins (dominating line up) the Mariners a complete team with players in their prime (even Bradley) or just about any team in the AL beside the Royals and Indians, I wouldn’t be thinking the Sox have the Wild Card locked up just yet.
Let’s not forget they have a payroll north of $170mm and barely have more than a single all star and there is not a single HOF’r on the active roster, not one. There is no real face of the franchise outside of Youk.
I give the O’s and Jay’s a real chance to play well with both teams being packed with top shelf prospects and light payrolls. The Jay’s rotation ain’t that bad. If I were the Sox I’d be very concerned indeed, shoot even the Yanks, but the Yanks age range for example is nothing compared to the Sox. The Sox average age believe it or not is the highest in the MLB. Outside of Jeter, Posada, and Arod and the addition of Winn everyone else is 30 and under for example. If you’re going to have 4 “old” players, I’d take those 4 and Winn at $1.1mm is a steal in comparison to Cameron at 2 for $15mm.
My guess and not saying this as a Yank fan, but as a business person, I do not understand the Sox strategy one bit. I expect them to be 10 out by the All Star break, but we will all see how it plays out on the field, the way it should be.
Career numbers:
Runners on –
Ortiz: .297/.358/.537
Beltre: .266/.330/.439
Drew: .280/.397/.495
Cameron: .256/.355/.450
Scoring Position –
Ortiz: .298/.403/.526
Beltre: .265/.344/.433
Drew: .280/.397/.496
Cameron: .261/.369/.461
Scoring Position, 2 outs –
Ortiz: .282/.408/.555
Beltre: .240/.350/.407
Drew: .245/.414/.468
Cameron: .255/.378/.447
Those career numbers you provide are very deceptive when put into context of the 2010 season
Ortiz AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS have all declined significantly in recent seasons. He is no longer that 1000 OPS player he once was with Manny and much of those numbers were accumulated during that time period of his career.
Betre has been a .270 AVG, .325 OBP, .453 SLG, .779 OPS hitter in his career, Derek Jeter as a shortstop has better career lines than that. .317 AVG, .388 OBP, .459 SLG, .847 OPS
Beltre, Like Cameron is also a strikeout machine, striking out more than he walks almost 2-1 in most seasons with a brutally low OBP.
Drew like I said decent player nothing scary at the plate to face.
Cameron is 37 years old, he is what he is, there is no upside there on offense, his career is set in that area. He’ll hit around 25 HR, strike out close to 150 times and have a mediocre OBP around 34%
There is a reason why his defense is being talked about more than his offense, not much there to say.
I think what is more telling about those career numbers you provide is that with
Runners On,
Scoring Position,
Scoring Position with 2 Outs,
None of those batters are above .300 hitters. The closest is Ortiz and he did most of his damage with Manny when he was hitting game winning hits for Boston along with Ramirez a few seasons ago while putting up 40+ HR and 120+ RBI’s and having an OPS of 900-1000. His days of that are done.
“There is a reason why his defense is being talked about more than his offense, not much there to say. ”
There is a reason that that team’s pitching and defense is being talked about more than its offense.
There is a reason that PITCHING and DEFENSE are talked about more than offense by baseball people not of the sports writer ilk.
Ortiz posted a .904 OPS starting in June. That is a .380 wOBA and good for about 27 RAA over a 600 PA season. I wouldnt leave him for dead just yet, and its important to remember he was recovering from injury much of the time his numbers were down.
Those career numbers you provide are very deceptive when put into context of the 2010 season
Ortiz AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS have all declined significantly in recent seasons. He is no longer that 1000 OPS player he once was with Manny and much of those numbers were accumulated during that time period of his career.
Betre has been a .270 AVG, .325 OBP, .453 SLG, .779 OPS hitter in his career, Derek Jeter as a shortstop has better career lines than that. .317 AVG, .388 OBP, .459 SLG, .847 OPS
Beltre, Like Cameron is also a strikeout machine, striking out more than he walks almost 2-1 in most seasons with a brutally low OBP.
Drew like I said decent player nothing scary at the plate to face.
Cameron is 37 years old, he is what he is, there is no upside there on offense, his career is set in that area. He’ll hit around 25 HR, strike out close to 150 times and have a mediocre OBP around 34%
There is a reason why his defense is being talked about more than his offense, not much there to say.
I think what is more telling about those career numbers you provide is that with
Runners On,
Scoring Position,
Scoring Position with 2 Outs,
None of those batters are above .300 hitters. The closest is Ortiz and he did most of his damage with Manny when he was hitting game winning hits for Boston along with Ramirez a few seasons ago while putting up 40+ HR and 120+ RBI’s and having an OPS of 900-1000. His days of that are done.
Career numbers:
Runners on –
Ortiz: .297/.358/.537
Beltre: .266/.330/.439
Drew: .280/.397/.495
Cameron: .256/.355/.450
Scoring Position –
Ortiz: .298/.403/.526
Beltre: .265/.344/.433
Drew: .280/.397/.496
Cameron: .261/.369/.461
Scoring Position, 2 outs –
Ortiz: .282/.408/.555
Beltre: .240/.350/.407
Drew: .245/.414/.468
Cameron: .255/.378/.447
For a team that will be more reliant on “run prevention” in the AL East, Red Sox fans should be more concerned about this disturbing trend in the lineup.
Very poor situational hitting
Runners On –
Ortiz – .246 AVG
Beltre – .248 AVG
Drew – .254 AVG
Cameron – .247 AVG
Scoring Position –
Ortiz – .238 AVG
Beltre – .284 AVG
Drew – .213 AVG
Cameron – .233 AVG
Scoring Position and 2 Outs –
Ortiz – .253 AVG
Beltre – .227 AVG
Drew – .280 AVG
Cameron – .232 AVG
Like I stated once you get past Pedroia, Martinez, Youkilis in that lineup no one is scary to face
I just want to say it once more, I just can’t wrap my head around how a team like the Sox can have a payroll north of $170mm and not have a career player, not a single person who is “that guy” like Mo coming in to shut the game down. Not a Jeter type that is perhaps one of the most clutch position players of our time, let’s not forget his value in terms of revenue for the organization. How can you be approaching a $200mm payroll and not have a Derek Jeter or Arod or Tex. Does anyone agree? Even the Twins at $100mm have Mauer. I just don’t get it. I hope for the Red Sox sake this is not the reality of the situation, but does anyone else have that feeling they could be the 2010 version of the 2008 and 2009 Mets?
Did you know that last year Jeter hit .259 with a .736 OPS with RISP last year? Career wise he is better, .308 with a .831 OPS… I’m definitely gonna say I can find a player more clutch than that. For instance Youkilis career stats with RISP has him hitting .344 with a 1.001 OPS. Now believe it or not I’m not saying Youk is more clutch… I’m just saying Jeter is most certainly not the most clutch position player of our time.
As for having a that guy… Youk, Pedroia, Lester. As for that guy who can shut people down. Well over the last 3 years Papelbon has a lower ERA, higher strikeout rate, slightly better home run rate, a WHIP only higher by .07, and opponent batting average .006 points lower, and the same FIP as a guy named Mariano. Now before I get shouted at… no I’m not arguing Paps is better than Mariano, I’m simply wondering how he isn’t the “”that guy” like Mo coming in to shut the game down.”
The Red Sox have a top fielding team, a top pitching team, a top closer, a top right fielder, a top first baseman, a top second baseman, a top hitting catcher, and we keep forgetting they have a a guy who stole 70 bases last year (which was 10 more than anyone in the AL East, and 40 more than anyone on the yanks). So really… where is this “version of the 2008 and 2009 Mets” coming from?
Jeter is a leadoff hitter for the Yankees not an RBI producer so his numbers with men on base is much less of a factor, it would be akin to mentioning that about Ellsbury.
The job of Jeter is to collect hits and get on base and score runs, which he did with 212 Hits, 107 runs scored, .334 AVG, .406 OBP and 30 steals.
I don’t think they are the 2009 Mets, but they have a gaping hole in their order with Bay gone. He led the team or was in the top of the team leaders in a bunch of offensive categories. Its not like he was Mike Lowell.
The argument was “one of the most clutch position players of our time,” it wasn’t greatest lead off hitter of all time.
My general point was the contribution Jeter made was different in the expectations of him as the leadoff man.
Comparing him and Youkilis within the context of clutch is misleading as to its impact, Youkilis is a 3-4 hitter, Jeter has never been that.
The clutch I speak of is production clutch, meaning AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS, driving in runners on the bases and in scoring position. That is Youkilis job, it is not Jeter’s primary job to drive in runners in the lineup he bats in.
agreed
Did you know that last year Jeter hit .259 with a .736 OPS with RISP last year? Career wise he is better, .308 with a .831 OPS… I’m definitely gonna say I can find a player more clutch than that. For instance Youkilis career stats with RISP has him hitting .344 with a 1.001 OPS. Now believe it or not I’m not saying Youk is more clutch… I’m just saying Jeter is most certainly not the most clutch position player of our time.
As for having a that guy… Youk, Pedroia, Lester. As for that guy who can shut people down. Well over the last 3 years Papelbon has a lower ERA, higher strikeout rate, slightly better home run rate, a WHIP only higher by .07, and opponent batting average .006 points lower, and the same FIP as a guy named Mariano. Now before I get shouted at… no I’m not arguing Paps is better than Mariano, I’m simply wondering how he isn’t the “”that guy” like Mo coming in to shut the game down.”
The Red Sox have a top fielding team, a top pitching team, a top closer, a top right fielder, a top first baseman, a top second baseman, a top hitting catcher, and we keep forgetting they have a a guy who stole 70 bases last year (which was 10 more than anyone in the AL East, and 40 more than anyone on the yanks). So really… where is this “version of the 2008 and 2009 Mets” coming from?
The toughest hitter on that team that I don’t like facing is Youkilis because he works the count and has power.
Pedroia does the same but he doesn’t have the power to worry about.
I just think this whole run prevention notion is a bit misleading. Its still the American League East. All the teams in this division can hit. Even Toronto and Baltimore.
Even Baltimore in last place in the division was middle of the pack in scoring in baseball at 16th overall, for a last place team.
Alex Rodriguez for example despite missing 38 Games, had more HR’s and RBI’s than Youkilis in 12 less games and more HR’s and 8 less RBI’s than Martinez in 31 less games.
again, I agree.
I just want to say it once more, I just can’t wrap my head around how a team like the Sox can have a payroll north of $170mm and not have a career player, not a single person who is “that guy” like Mo coming in to shut the game down. Not a Jeter type that is perhaps one of the most clutch position players of our time, let’s not forget his value in terms of revenue for the organization. How can you be approaching a $200mm payroll and not have a Derek Jeter or Arod or Tex. Does anyone agree? Even the Twins at $100mm have Mauer. I just don’t get it. I hope for the Red Sox sake this is not the reality of the situation, but does anyone else have that feeling they could be the 2010 version of the 2008 and 2009 Mets?
baseballprospectus.com/fantasy/dc/