9:29pm: MLB.com's Scott Merkin concurs, adding that he believes the White Sox have about $4MM to offer Damon.
5:50pm: According to Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times, Chicago's interest in Johnny Damon is more about "due diligence" than anything else, and if the price tag is around $7MM per season, that is beyond their budget.
4:48pm: Heyman tweets that the Tigers may have offered slightly more than $14MM.
4:21pm: ESPN.com's Buster Olney tweets that executives expect Damon to sign with the Tigers.
4:15pm: Braves president John Schuerholz tells Jim Bowden that GM Frank Wren is "engaged" in talks with Damon and Scott Boras (Twitter link).
3:56pm: Jon Heyman of SI.com tweets that the Tigers have one and two-year offers on the table to Damon. The Braves and White Sox are also involved.
3:05pm: Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports and Jim Bowden tweet that the White Sox and Tigers are bidding on Damon.
2:48pm: Tigers owner Mike Ilitch has authorized a two-year $14MM offer, sources tell Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. It's hard to imagine Damon turning this kind of offer down.
Damon is also considering a one-year $7MM offer from the Tigers and a one-year offer from the Braves. Atlanta won't likely offer two years, since they have outfield prospects Jason Heyward and Jordan Schafer.
2:02pm: Damon is nearing a decision and could agree to a deal this week, reports ESPN.com's Jayson Stark. Damon's best available offer comes from the Tigers. Insiders guess they're offering a one-year deal worth $7MM or so, but the sides haven't ruled out a two-year deal.
The Braves and Rays are still involved and a source tells Stark that the White Sox have interest. The Braves and Rays are talking one-year deals and neither club has offered as much as the Tigers.
1:21pm: The Tigers appear willing to top the Braves' offer to Johnny Damon, tweets Newsday's Ken Davidoff. Davidoff suggests that the Tigers could offer Damon $4.5MM, which would top Atlanta's offer of about $4MM.
Yesterday, we heard that the Braves offered Damon a deal worth less than $4MM. The deal includes deferred money, according to multiple reports. Earlier in the week, FOX Sports reported that Damon was still looking for a multi-year deal.
Jays swoop in with 5 million. (Damon >> Bautista) as long as it doesn’t take away at-bats from Snider.
go for it man… hes yours. hes the braves… i could care less, just not here
Could have been with the Yankees for $6 million. What an idiot.
he only would have been with the yanks if they didnt sign nick johnson damons deal was based on if johnson signs
That traitor should go on over to the NL I think.
ok, not everyone that ever played for the red sox is a red sock for life. curt schilling (in the past), josh becket, mike lowell, manny ramierez, even johnny damon… all of these “core” guys spent quite a bit of time playing for other teams. why can’t boston get over itself?
Not all of them say they would never play for the Yankees either.
true.
That’s my only problem with him. I still like Wade even though he was a Yankee, front office made him do what he did. Johnny was my favorite. Said he would never do it. Then did it.
For what it’s worth: Schilling also stated he would only approve a trade to the Yankees or Phillies, before Theo flew out there and talked to him and gave him a 25m extension (+13m option) at 37 years old.
Um, Lowell WAS a Yankee.
I don’t know why, but I really want Damon to sign with the Braves. I don’t like the idea of him playing anywhere else. Something about him on the Braves makes me feel good.
Damon, despite inflated numbers with Yankees, is a player who has done nothing but win in his career. I don’t usually care for nebulous intangibles like this in most cases, but the braves don’t seem to have that winning mentality. Watching them look so poised to take the wildcard last year, and yet come up so flaccid seems partly an attitude problem. Damon seems to play with some amount of hustle that would hopefully be infectious. I like the signing.
I’d say let Heyward get some ABs at Gwinett, and then trade Melky for the bullpen that we’ll most likely need by June anyway.
ok, aparently no one remembers that johnny damon played his first 6 years in KANSAS CITY before going to oakland and eventually the red sox. he’s not home grown, boston. get over it.
Maybe if he express his love for Gordie Howe, or Al Kaline, the Tigers will raise their offer.
Well if this report is true looks like he will stay in the AL. I really doubt the Braves will bother with a counter offer. But that’s alright that leaves some money if needed at the trade deadline.
Good good good. Lets go with Matty Baseball and play some defense. Damon is a fine player but with Heyward likely starting in Atlanta (just read some Cox/FO lately) Diaz needs to have a spot to play and he is an above average defender in LF.
So this is the bidding war Boras told Damon to hold out for.
Braves lineup with Damon:
Prado
Damon
Chipper
McCann
Glaus
McLouth
Escobar
Melky/Diaz til Heyward is ready
Detroit
Jackson
Damon
Maggs
Miggy
Guillen DH
Inge
Sizemore
Laird
Everett
I think the Braves is a better situation for Damon to go to.
Don’t look for the Braves to enter into a mano-a-mano bidding war with the Tigers. We won’t win. It also doesn’t make sense. If Heyward joins the big club directly from Lake Buena Vista, it completely removes the need for Damon. Cox has said that Heyward will not platoon in Atlanta, which leaves LF in the hands of Cabrera and Diaz (which I will argue with the bbxxj’s point that he is an above avg fielder…he is far from it). Also, lest we forget, Jordan Shafer is still a top notch prospect whom I have no doubt will become a solid contributor for some ballclub in the near future.
Diaz’s UZR/150 numbers playing LF for the Braves:
06: 18.0
07: 19.3
08: -9.6
09: 2.9
He may not be awesome, but he is a better-than-average LF.
Probably more like
Damon
McLouth
Chipper
Glaus
McCann
Escobar
Prado
Heyward/Diaz/Cabrera
But either way you’re probably right about it being the better option. My gut says he leaves a little on the table to play for Cox rather than live in Detroit. Just saying.
First would not take 2yrs 14M from the Yanks, then won’t take 6M from the Yanks… Boras cost this guy a lot of money. And wherever Damon signs he’ll do the whole “I felt respected with the tigers/braves/reds offer”…. Joke
Damn. That lineup would be scary about two-three years ago. Oh well.
Monumentally stupid decision by him this year, leave the team that you just won a World Series ring with who previously paid you 52 million, play in the perfect ballpark for you and also offered you the best contract you will get for possibly the rest of your career. I know I’d rather live in Detroit then NY, jackass
Brainwashed By Boras…. Those two completely Misread the market… and it cost Damon Millions and a chance at winning. Total lose/lose for Johnny
This is why logistics such as amount offered for a salary should never be released until a deal is finalized.
Dear Johnny,
Hope you enjoy Detriot.
Sincerely,
The Braves
not cool man… the braves need to step up and sign him. dont want him around here
“Insiders guess the Tigers are offering a one-year deal worth $7MM or so” I hope this is a typo. The Braves offer 4 million and the Tigers counter with 7, what rocket scientist is doing the math on this one. Better be more like 3 million guaranteed with heavy incentives on like 700 plate appearances and not looking like a 9 year old girl in LF with that arm, maybe an extra mill for 50+ homers or batting .400.
Tigers have to be dumb to do this. All they needed to do is wait for Damon to say no to ATL’s offer and then ATL is out of the running. Rays and White Sox can’t offer as much as Detriot. Detriot should just offer him a 1 year 5 mil deal.
Yeah have to agree, no one else would have gave him more than 5 mil at least not at this time of year.
Looks like Boras may get Johnny that 2 year deal after all. If the Tigers are offering 7 mil a year than take him. 2/7 sounds good, but 7 a year is way to much for .285/15/65.
drinky makes a good point, with Damon in the clubhouse last year they would have held it together even after Cabrera went on his bender.
Signing Damon for 2010 is a smart move for the Tigers, if it’s $7M or less. So many positives — proven lefty hitter they don’t currently have; fewer OF innings for Carlos Guillen; bona fide leadoff hitter; fewer ABs for Ordonez (the man with the $15M option for 2011 that vests with 540 PAs/135 games started); Raburn stays in a super reserve role; and most importantly, the option to trade Damon at the deadline to a contender and bring in prospects.
But man, if the Tigers go to two years, they are stupid.
maybe if the tigers sign johnny damon, they can flip him and austin jackson to new york for curtis granderson and this whole offseason will be a whole lot easier to understand.
NO ONE is bidding on Dammon. Hopefully Detroit isnt stupid enough to go 7 mill. And PLEASE tell me they arent dumb enough to go 2 years. Felipe Lopez would be a better fit, as he can step in should Sizemore not pan out, or Inge continue his 2nd half. He’s also younger, and probably less expensive and could provide flexibility for 2011, when Inge is a FA and there is no one in the minors waiting.
Exactly. This would be the worst case of bidding against oneself ever.
Remember the Mets and Bay?
dumb
The Tigers are dumb
2 years 14mil from the Tigers?? How does this justify trading Granderson at all? I guess just add Johnny Damon and Marcus Thames to that original 3 team trade
“Tigers owner Mike Ilitch has authorized a two-year $14MM offer”
That is pathetic and ridiculous.
All you do on here is cry. It’s hilarious.
Well looks like Damon will be a Tiger barring a big counter by the Braves which I don’t see happening. Would’ve liked to have seen Damon in a Braves uniform making a run for it with Bobby in his final year. He would have liked it in Atlanta. Good luck Johnny!
It really doesn’t make much sense. How does Detroit send Granderson packing for prospects to save money and then go out and spend more money on an older player? If they are really offering 2/14 mil…who are they outbidding?…the Braves reported offer was only 1/4. Who knows? The Tigers are really going to take a beating if they sign him for 2/14!
Yeah, that really doesn’t make much sense to me either.
exactly… I don’t like hating players on our team but I’ll hate Damon if he signs. this is such a waste for this year, and if they sign him for 2 years, that’s 7 million out of the 60 million coming off the books next year going straight into Damon’s pocket. Just doesn’t make any sense. And now the Sox jump in to try to drive up the price. they can go ahead and get him as long as we dont try to outbid them
You hit the nail on the head there. This makes absolutely no sense at all. Both clubs should just pull their offers now and get that price back down where it should be.
Great post! I cant believe they agree to trade one of the best young OF’s in the game in Granderson and claim to be saving money. Then go out and offer Damon 2 yrs at above market price.
AHHHHHHH.
(pulls out hair)
Boras is going to get exactly what he wants by milking us for a contract. I’m going to hate him even more now.
come on Kenny get her done we need a DH.
LOL! 2/14 ??? I don’t know much about the Tigers GM but wow that is a stupid offer.
I’m honestly shocked he is about to get $14 mm from the Tigers. Braves should never come close to that. My feeling all along was 1 yr/5 mm. If higher then its not a fit.
No way the White Sox give Damon $14M/2 yrs. But he would make their lineup better.
If this 2/14 deal goes down with Detroit, then Detroit is officially Boras’ b***h. Unbelievable, that any team would offer him anything more than a few million at this point and I’m a Damon fan.
Scott Boras always could find a $ucker in Mike Ilitch, What does Damon at 2-14 actually do for that club.
I guess with the Twins making some signings, the White Sox having Peavy for the entire season, Detroit feels compelled to have to do something.
If there is one person Boras could always milk it was Mike Itlitch.
Hope Detroit enjoys Damon at 7 million a year for 2years of
.280-.285 AVG, 13-15 HR, 65+ RBI max
with horrific defense in Comerica’s outfield unless he DH’s.
I look forward to Granderson returning there and going first to home on balls to left field, heck Jim Thome could pinch run and go from first to 3rd with Damon in the outfield.
Guess the Tigers feel they have to do something though.
Exactly. This is us being weak and feeling like they need to do something to combat those other teams moves. It’s just not smart at all, and thats what pisses me off. And especially at TWO years. Christ, old man Damon just is not worth that much. He is not going to help us win a World Series.
The thought of Thome pinch running makes me chuckle. Good post.
Count me in amongst those thoroughly angered if Boras pulls this one out of his arse.
Hard to understand why Ilitch would authorize two years, $14 million. Who is he bidding against? Seems like Damon could be had for less than that given that the Braves only offered one year, $4 million with half that deferred. I suppose the White Sox jumping in would drive the price up a bit but do they really have the money to drive the price up that much? Damon had better take that offer if it’s legit. If he doesn’t then he and Boras are both certifiable. They should have learned something from this process, too bad the Tigers are going to reward them more than they probably should have been and allow them to save face. I like the Tigers and like the idea of Damon playing for them, I just wish he’d have been forced to take a bigger pay cut given how all this has played out.
If the $14M/2 yr Tigers deal is true, I am now actively rooting that Kenny Williams is even stupider than Dave Dombrowski/Ilitch. For one year, even at $7M, Damon is a decent fit for the Tigers. For two, it’s the stupidest thing that’s ever happened. Hoping that it’s a club option for the second year not based on incentives…
I don’t see KW offering two years… plus, what does he do with Jones/Kotsay? I could see him putting his neck out for A -Gon or maybe Dunn, but not Damon.
Yeah, totally. KW actually has some brains. I really can’t believe this rumor, though. It would be just so ridiculously bad of a deal for the Tigers.
Unless KW is just trying to drive up the price…
Maybe he’ll next talk about how much he loved the Super Bowl Shuffle…
If Damon gets 2/$14 then I expect many MLBTR commentators to come back with their tail between their legs. Boras did Damon right if he can swing this kind of a deal.
More like Ilitch did baseball — and the world — wrong. The only person who could be talked into such a deal given the evidence is a very stupid person indeed. But maybe it’s not true…
You mean the same deal that the Yankees initially offered when it was beneath him to accept that paltry sum to remain in New York, because he wanted the same 13 million per season for multiple years and then 10 million per season for multiple years.
So he is going to take the same deal to go to Detroit that he was going to get in New York, yeah Damon was real smart.
Let me leave the World Series Champions, a park and lineup that suited me and helped me have a career type season, surrounded by some of the best hitters in the game to go to Detroit and a team that is building for the future.
Not to mention Yankee Stadium for 81 games could hide his defense along with the dominant offensive lineup he played in that could make up for any defensive shortcoming he had.
All Damon did was get greedy and now is on a worse team than the one he was on last season for at best the same amount of cash that he was originally offered.
Boras should feel lucky he always has Mike Ilitch to sucker a deal out of.
All of your points are completely valid except one: Detroit isn’t in rebuilding mode, and never was. The Granderson trade had nothing to do with giving up on 2010.
Ill admit that everyone who bashed Boras will be wrong. If Damon gets the 2 years and 14 million then Boras is a wizard, and accurately banked on some GM being dumb enough to match the best deal he has received.
But Im not sure we can say he did right by his client seeing as he is now accepting the same deal he rejected to stay with the Yankees who are a better team and a better overall situation for Damon then the Tigers. By situation I mean, better team, ballpark suited for his hitting style, he already has a residence in NY etc
“Boras did Damon right if he can swing this kind of a deal”
From taking his client from the favorites to win the WS in a ballpark perfect for him, to the Tigers in a huge ballpark?
If he gets 14m from the Tigers then I give Boras credit for that, but its not better than 14m from the Yankees.
I’m shocked that the Tigers are offering that kind of guaranteed money. Not that Damon isn’t worth but more like that offer seemingly blows the Braves offer clear out the water. Also shocked to hear that the Sox are interested simply because they already have a crowded OF with Pierre, Rios, Quenten. Andru Jones and Mark Kotsay. I guess it would be Quenten as DH, Damon in LF, Pierre in CF and Rios back to RF? Talk about runners taking liberties.
i think it would be LF-Pierre CF-Rios RF-Quentin DH-Damn 4th OF- Jones 1B/OF-Kotsay
Exactly and gives Ozzie the flexibility he craves such as configurations from left to right like: Damon/Pierre/Rios to keep Q fresh.
However if the Tigers want to bid themselves into a corner and pick up Damon when they still have question marks in center, and second, and awful bats at catcher short stop they can go right ahead. I would have loved Damon on the White Sox but if the tigers expect to be a force with rookies/aging veterans/very young arms as the #2 & #3 in the rotation etc they can waste more money on damon.
With Damon, the Tigers will be a lot better in 2010 than you’re giving them credit for. Agreed that the lineup is still a bit weak, but it was weak last year and they did okay. Damon replaces Granderson’s production. Polanco didn’t have a great season so the downgrade to Sizemore probably won’t be so bad. Jackson is essentially taking ABs they gave to Raburn/Clete Thomas last year so could be worse. Inge/Ordonez/Guillen all project to have better seasons for various reasons. And Miguel Cabrera is sober.
Not saying they’ll be great or anything and yeah, the pitching staff might be a question but they have a pretty good shot of winning the AL Central with Damon on the squad. I mean it’s not like they’re not planning on starting Juan Pierre…
Good one considering Everett & Laird are two of the biggest offensive holes out there, combine that with a rookie 2nd basement and center field prospect that’s posted stellar .767 OPS in the minors and you have yourself the lower tier offense that is the Detroit Tigers, with or without Johnny Damon. I can be super optimistic and name 5 reason why I think the White Sox will be a good lineup but right now with a carousel of bench players rotating through the DH slot I just don’t see it.
Seeing a .600 OPS playing short everyday with an offensively useless backstop and a declining Magglio and Guillen with two unproven rookies commanding everyday roles should have you should be saying the same.
Oh, it’s true — their lineup is pretty terrible, even with Damon. But it’s better than you’re giving it credit for is all I’m saying. I think the White Sox are the team to beat in the AL Central followed closely by the Twins but the Tigers will be in the mix like the White Sox were there last year until September. .500 team with Verlander/Porcello/Scherzer and the improved bullpen — they’ll need Magglio and at least one of the two rookies to produce to have a real shot but obviously weirder things have happened in the AL Central in recent years.
No way they are offering 2/14. Not in a million years. How do rumors go up from a 1/4 deferred to 2/14?
The advantage the White Sox have is if it the teams are pretty close in price the White Sox are in a better place to compete and they will rotate all the outfielders through the DH spot along with Paulie. That will keep Damon fresh and healthy for the next season.
Unless its Ken Rosenthal doing the usual ballwashing for Boras, next Heyman may tweet the same thing as well to certify who its coming from.
“next Heyman may tweet the same thing as well to certify who its coming from.”
As is written so shall it be, Boras mouthpiece #1 Heyman can’t let mouthpiece #2 Rosenthal get all the limelight.
wow 14 mil for two years.. never thought he’d get anywhere near that. Detroit can have him for that. Never really sure about how I felt with Damon in Atlanta, kinda like if he signs cheap great, if not they’ve got a perfectly capable outfield along with the #1 prospect in baseball!
Agree with that mostly, except we still don’t have a legitimate lead-off threat. Damon would have done that nicely for us.
LOL! The Tigers! LOL… no offense to you guys…
No way detroit pays 2/14. What was the point of getting rid of a superior player in granderson?
Austin Jackson.
The Tigers are fools like they hand out that contract as they have a DH in left, and right, and even though I’m one to talk as a White Sox fan with/without Damon that offense looks awful.
Over/under on how many packs of smokes Leyland has gone through now?
14 million really? welp, it’s ok…..Jason Heyward will save the day!
I suspect that some of these reports are merely leaks fed to reporters that are designed to further Boras’s agenda.
You would suspect, after all there is no reason for the Tigers to give Damon that deal unless the White Sox or Braves are really coming hard after Damon.
Do the Tigers really need Damon that badly. š
Dombrowski is a certifiable idiot and in a span of a couple months took a pretty good centerfielder and flipped him for a prospect and in return looks like he’s gonna use that money to sign Damon to an even larger contact over the next two years. The man is working in circles and if he wants to commit two years for absolutely no reason whatsoever he can go right ahead. Amazing how the team has sunk so much money into absolutely useless players and he continues to splurge on his owners dime.
Totally agree that it makes no sense to sign Damon to two years, especially when you can’t put him at DH due to the Guillen problem. Why not just keep Granderson if this was the plan? Weird. Plus it takes them out of the running for Carl Crawford next year. But it hasn’t happened yet…
Interesting that none of the Chisox beat reporters are writing about this…
Olney’s tweet surely means he’ll be signing on with anyone but the Tigers…
Seriously, heard from “some executives involved”? He’s reporting a rumor of a rumor. I’d put little stock in his writing here…
Olney has poor sources and he knows it, he’s almost never the one to report and signing so he goes on mlbtraderumors sees the reported offers and puts together some vague basic tweet to sound like hes an “insider”.
Really 4.5 mill to damon when they just got rid of granderson who is only making one more million? This move literally does not make sence….granderson hit 30 homeruns and stole 20 bases. damon only hit 24 hrs and stole 12 bases. And cant field..this move does not make sense
Ken Rossenthal your on crack, 2 yr 14 mill WTF!!! This better not be true, I dont want Damon for two years. One at 7MM sounds ridiculous in itself.
if he can put up a year like he did last year he is well work it but still granderson was set to make 5.5 million this year and the GM for DEt is wiling to pay damon(worse in every category) more money that does not make sense…
lots of folks have gotten on Boras’ case for mismanaging Johnny Damon.
well…this proves that Scott Boras is smarter then any of those idiots, sitting in their mothers basement, will ever be..
the bidding war for Damon that most people said wouldn’t happen is on…later then Boras or damon probably hoped for…but its here nonetheless and will net Damon a very good chunk of change.
Give credit where credit is due to Dombrowski and Ilitch for taking what looked like a bargain and instead bidding against themselves and offering two years to move a player that hit 17 hrs in Yankee Stadium to a pitchers park.
1. Lets slow down, he’s not signed yet.
2. If he gets 14m then Damon still loses out. He goes from the defending champs and favorites in ’10 in a ballpark perfect for him, to a lesser team playing in a huge ballpark.
Well said.
he didnt turn down any offer from the yankees….The offer to damon from NY was based on if Nick Johnson signed his deal. If he didnt then Damon would have been truly offered a contract. But seeing as Johnson signed his deal that took damons deal off the plate.
From what I understand, Boras claimed that the Yanks made no offer, but Cashman stated that, up until the night before they signed Johnson, the 2 year/14 million dollar deal was still on the table. I’m FAR more inclined to believe Cashman than Boras. Therefore, no, that’s not true.
I’ll go see if I can find this in the archives, but I’m pretty sure of it.
1 year base of 5 mill with 2-3 mill in incentives. And A mutual option for next season. If Damon turns down the deal the club is not allowed to offer Arb so he can get a better deal from another team without them having to lose a draft pick…that sounds like an ideal deal for him gets him a bunch of money and possibly gets him the 2 yrs he wants
if he signes with the tigers at least he will be a beast when they play in NY
Tigers better not go more than 2 years 10MM. 5MM per..
Damn, I was hoping to see Reyes and Pagan and Wright and Beltran going 1st to 3rd on every ball hit into LF when they play the Braves. Reyes could probably score on a single to LF from first with Damon out there, but oh well.
I think you’re forgetting who the cutoff guy would be on that side of the diamond,Yunel and that canon for an arm. Not to mention the smaller dimensions at the Ted would be more beneficial to Damon anyway. Of course the Mets only having 1 real pitcher and the larger ballpark you’d better be a running club.
one thing you forgot kotsay…AND what are you on that you would rather have brent(who cant field cant hit and can hardly run) over Nix who has powe speed and versitlity off the bench? as long as there is nix lilibridge wont make the team..
Please dont say kotsay wont make the team they gave him over a million he is for sure going to make the team…I agree damon would be a nice addition to our team. And i still think we have the central without him. Pitching staff is better then anyone..and we have while the twins have the M&M boys the rest of their team is suspect. THome can only hit fastballs and they have NO rotation…we have the central locked baring injury but damon would make us one of the elite teams in the AL….KW 2 yrs10 million base 4-5 in incentives
“Heyman tweets that the Tigers may have offered slightly more than $14MM.”
I imagine someone else probably mentioned it, but what??? Talk about illogically bidding against yourself. Not to mention doing so would have made the Granderson trade rather pointless – they would be spending more for Damon then they would have Curtis. Plus they already have a player in Raburn who offers similar hitting plus the actual ability to play in the outfield well.
Just pointless.
I think all of this is boras driving the price up…damon will land some where like on the wsox or braves
sorry for all the quick simple posts but this screams Kenny Williams secrete moves…I bet KW swoops down and signs this guy randomly…look at peavy and rios no one knew KW was even talking to these guys
Boras did mismanage this. Damon wanted to sign with the Yankees and now his best offer is the same one as the Yankees but it is with Detroit. Anyway, I still don’t believe Detroit made that offer.
Hmmm. If the Tigers sign Damon to two years, I might actually cry. It’s like they learned absolutely nothing from the unnecessary Gary Sheffield extension. And two years of that handcuffed LF/DH combo of Damon and Guillen is just painful to think about. The only conceivable reason to sign Damon in 2010 is to attempt to compete immediately — and if you’re out of it by the deadline, trade him for prospects. I am sincerely beginning to hate Dave Dombrowski, who I really used to like.
“Ohhh Man, if KW signs Damon, you might as well crown the Sox as division winners now, barring injury,of coarse. This would do wonders for their lineup and probably make it the best in the division. The twins do have a pretty stellar line, only because of Kube,Mauer and Mourneu. The Sox already have the best Starting Pitching, Bullpen and Bench in the Central and signing Damon would probably give em’ the best lineup as well. Here are my opening day predictions IF the sox sign Damon”
There is absolutely no way the White Sox will have a better offense than the Twins if they sign Damon. Last year the Sox’ offense was 12th in the AL and the Twins got your best hitter in terms of OPS in Thome. The Sox’ offense lost alot of punch and whlie it shouldn’t be any worse than last year it probably won’t be much better. Meanwhile, the Twins were a top 5 offense in the AL last year and added Thome, Hardy, and Hudson, and you fail to mention Cuddyer and Span when you talk about the Twins’ lineup. Those additions probably makes the Twins a top 3 offense in the AL, so I don’t understand how you think the addition of Damon can jump the White Sox’ offense from 12th to even being in the top 5 in the league
Sorry, but the Twins owed a lot of their offensive punch to the Metrodome. It will be interesting to see their metrics in Target Field, playing outdoors in April…
Aside from the baggie in right field, the Metrodome was a pitchers park, and the Twins played off that with strong emphasis on pitching and defense. Target Field looks like a launching pad. Interesting to see how that plays out.
a few things…offence yes the twins win but that only depends on carlos’s season and rios…IF carlos has an 08 season again(SECOND IN MVP AND MISSED THE LAST 30 GAMES) then we are right on par with the twins…lets not forget the o-dawg got benched last season..and the twins best pitcher is their closer…they can not even come close to matching up with mark, gavin and danks…and not to mention the new ACE peavy…
Thome is a part time player/ pinch hitter so chill on thome being soo good…hudson is on the down side of his career and HArdy has been having trouble in recent years. ALSO the team in playing in a 100% new stadium no one knows how the will play…they are built for indoors turf not grass in minn in september and oct…….an out door stadium in Minnesota is a weird thing to me…THE FACT IS NO ONE KNOWS HOW THEY WILL PLAY..no one knows how justin will come back after all his surgeries and if Mauer will have another MVP season…and again NO PITCHERS…
All I said was that the Twins have a way better offense, so I don’t really
know why you had to bring up the pitching. It’s obvious that you guys have
a better staff and that we have the better offense that’s why it’s going to
be a fun race. I have confidense that we can win the division because I’m a
Twins fan, just as White Sox fans should have confidence in their team
winning the division. But your argument for winning the central is your
pitching, which is why I didn’t like the argument made about your offense
being better because it simply isn’t, just like our pitching isn’t as good
as yours
I don’t understand why people are saying the Twins have a better offense if anything its the same as the sox. O-dog declined, and has never finished a season in the last few years hot, either by injury or a slump. You can’t always say Morneau was injured can still be injure you can’t always assume he will be back at 100% and JJ might not return to 08 form it could be 09 form.
If people think Morneau, O-dog, and JJ will return to form. Then the same need to be said for Q, Rios, and Teahen. Given our stadium the Sox will have a better offense because of speed(Well Rios) If one thing goes for the twins the same can go for the sox.
I believe that the Twins have a better offense because it was way better
last year and we clearly got better. Even if Hudson is declining you need
to think of what he is replacing. He is at worst an average 2B and our 2B’s
last year had a higher OPS than only the NL pitchers. I will give you that
Hardy is a big question mark just as Rios is with you so I think they are
both pretty much a wash. Morneau did not have a bad year last year so I
don’t really know how he would need to “return to form,” he just needs to
stay healthy which he’s done all his life except for the injury at the end
of last year. It’s certainly a bit of a concern but given their track
records I would bet that he would be more likely to have a good year than
Quentin considering he’s only really had one good year in his life. You are
right that I am probably a little bit too confidence about our offense but
that’s just because we haven’t signed a free agent in like 15 years lol. I
will give you possible returns to form for Quentin and Rios but Teahen has
never been a good hitter so he really has no success to return to. I would
like to thank you for keeping this about baseball and not getting personal
about it like another Sox fan here, you seem like a good Sox/baseball fan.
Don’t know if I’d really trust anything from Cowley either, he’s considered to be kind of a tool…
MORE? more than 14? Good god DD…
My vision with Damon is: Going to Cincinnati. But thats not going to happend. A lot of people ever Boras, expected the Reds to sign him, but we backed down. Also, he had thoughts about retiring. Anyways, Frank Thomas and Tom Glavine have offically retired.
Boras is just one of the worst agents possibly. the dude is just stubborn, and in turn makes his clients stubborn and expect teams to overpay for them. he’s a class a robber.
I hope The braves can try and get him for cheap, but that might be out the window.
Boras isn’t stubborn in my opinion.If you’re stubborn, you’re recognizing reality and not liking it. Boras has just completely lost any and all touch with reality. This is a complete fluke that the Tigers are dumb enough to buy into his asanine dealing procedure with this whole Damon thing. Now of course Boras and Damon are gonna celebrate victory when he’s got his two year contract and they both are gonna think that they did so good with all of this but it all boils down to the fact that the Tigers front office is a bunch of idiots who don’t understand who’s worth what. And when you’re a fan of a team with a guy with a shitty contract it’s perfectly ok to bash other teams because you know what they are going through
LOL! EVEN MORE FUNNIER.. SLIGHTER MORE THAN $14 MILLION DOLLARS…. GOD.. WHAT’S WRONG WITH DETROIT… MAYBE THEY’RE SO UPSET ABOUT LAST SEASON THAT THEY’RE DESPERATE FOR JOHNNY DAMON NOW….
ha, good one. I sure can tell you think thats funny with all those caps!
And this is why Boras keeps getting the last laugh. Teams are stupid enough to cave in.
Damon has NO market, NO negotiating power, hell, he has NOTHING right now other than the ability to play baseball. You don’t let him tell you how much he’s going to be paid. You tell him, Detroit.
All the Sox fans are making me puke. lulzzzz
Boy, you White Sox fans are disillusioned. You actually think that Damon makes them an elite AL team. I don’t know where you get Alex Rios typical season of 20+ HR’s…he has hit 20 HR’s once in his career (2007). His career OBP is .330. He is no lead-off man and if heis batting 5th then your team is hurting. Someone had Damon batting 3rd…now, you are really reaching… Damon hitting 3rd for an elite AL team? That is hilarious. He definitely couldn’t play OF for them…him and Pierre together couldn’t get into the IF without a cut.
His best fit is with the Braves. Though, I wouldn’t say he makes them elite…just think he is the best fit. Probably will get the most money from Detroit…so, I’m sure thats where he’ll go. They can say what they want but its always about the money. If the Royals offered him a 2 yr/18 mil contract, he would sign in a second…who cares about winning? No way he can live the rest of his life off the 9 figures he has pulled in over the last 10-15 yrs.
No, our starting rotation does…
Don’t forget the Putz, Thornton, Jenks combo to finish off the game.
Chi Sox are an elite team w/o Damon.
i still say that if it is down to the tigers and wsox I would bet he would go for the sox becuase he seems like the type that yes wants money but at the same time wants to win. Agreed with the cell being more friendly to him and I could see Kenny giving him like 4-5 base+2-3 incentive and doing a one yr deal and not offering him ARB next season so he can have a better year and go out and get that bigger deal…At the same time I could see Kenny giving him like 2-3 yr deal and just cutting jones from the roster…Although I would rather see jones make the team and not kotsay
2010 6 million guaranteed plus 3 million in incentives. 2011 club option for 8 million with 2 million in incentives with a 2 million dollar buy out and a guarantee that the club will not offer ARB
i still dont see what the royals didnt sign him as much as they love to lock up random out fielders who cant field
Easy answer: His OBP is too high and he’s a good baserunner.
So Chicago plans to get him by offering him the same amount as the Braves but less than the Tigers? Especially when he said he wanted to play for Atlanta and the Tigers are the only ones actually trying to net his services.
sweet, i love it when i’m in the middle of typing and my computer automatically posts what I have written so i have to comment on my own post to finish my statement. Anywho, if Johhny wants the money, he should take the Tigers. If he wants to win, his best bet would be the Braves. And I’m not just saying that due to me being a fan. Consider this. No way in hell anyone in the NL central beats the Twins so the Tigers or White Sox would have to hope that they can take the Wild card away from the Yankees, Red Sox (depending on who wins the division) and the Angels, Mariners (same deal). Seeing as how the Yankees are the Yankees, the Redsox have done well this offseason, the MAriners have done extremely well and the Angels still looking strong, I don’t see the White Sox or Tigers as legitimate AL playoff contenders. Both strong clubs, but not strong enough. Now if he were on the Braves, he’d be on a team that’s a little more evenly matched with playoff contending teams like the Phillies, Cubs, Cardinals, Dodgers and Rockies. See what I’m saying? But of course the best thing to have done would be to take the Yankees offer but he’s a moron and didn’t.
Honestly not too bright if you believe the Twins are such a “lock” for the AL Central. As a White Sox fan, I think our pitching alone makes us an instant contender.
i’m not saying you aren’t gonna contend, I’m saying you’re not gonna win. Would I rather you guys win? Without a doubt!!! I’ve always thought of the White Sox as a team I would choose if I had to pick a favorite AL team. I also think that the desire is going to be there more than any team in the league.
the twins desire i mean
It would make more sense for him to play in chicago its wayy more of a hitters park(thus allowing him to raise his stock next off season) and it gives him a better chance to win again. Also I simply dont understand the tigers interest. They had granderson clearly a better over all player. They had him for more years and less money each season
J. Damon’s career numbers:
Comerica Park (Detroit): .961 OPS in 189 PA
The Cell (Chicago): .743 OPS in 260 PA
Damon has a .980 OPS at Turner (ATL) but that’s based on a much smaller sample.
Why in the world are Damon’s Comerica Park numbers continually brought up. Does it maybe have something to do with inflated numbers facing many awful Tigers pitching staffs throughout the years? Why people actually bring this up as if it has any bearing on a increase in numbers going from the number #1 home run park to Comerica which is more of a pitchers park makes no sense.
Although the sox have a good rotation this year, we haven’t had a good rotation the length of damon’s career. A guy’s number can be indicative of his future success/failure at a ballpark.
dang there is alot of white sox hate here…I forgot that everyone in the world loves the other team in Chicago because its a fad to love the cubs, thus leading to disrespect for the chisox…Need i remind people mark buehrle had a 13-10 with a 3.8 era…not great but not that horrible considering the dude perfect gamed the rays….floyd gets better every year and danks literally had gotten better every year and every single analyist and scout says that both gavin and john are two of the better pitchers in the game considering their service tiem and that both of them could top a rotation some day. and this is all with having what the 3rd worst offense last season. Lets not forget we have one of the top 5 right handers in the game on our staff now peavy was 3-0 with a low low low era with the sox and that was “85%” says peavy…but of course because they are not the cubs no one thinks they will do anything….
what have the twins done? added a old back up DH who can only hit mistake pitches and fastball..and only hit 25 hrs last season…and they added an aging 2nd basemen who got benched last season for ronnie belliard, and JJ hardy who doesnt really hit that much different that teahan yet teahan is worse then him for some reason.
.last season teahan hit 34- doubles, 12 hrs, .269 avg .331 obp .419 slg….where as hardy hit 16 doubles 11 hrs .262 avg .323 obp .428slg….yet the twins are soo much better….
catcher is no match the twins have it and same with closer(although a healthy jenks is one of the best out there along with nathan)
1st base PK .277 28hrs—–justin .280 30 hr…so very very close..a healthy pk and a healthy morneau are two of the best most under rated 1st basemen
2nd base gordon .270 14 hrs in 103 games .340 obp .460slg —O-dawg .280 9hrs .357 obp .417slg..so again very very close
SS hardy .262avg 11 hrs .323 obp .428slg——Alexi .277 15 hrs .326obp .430slg…yet again very very close
3rd brendan harris .261avg 6 hrs .324obp .396 slg–teahan .270avg 12 hrs .325obp .408slg again very close
LF Juan .308 0hr .365 obp .392 slg–young .284 12 hrs .308 obp .425 slg
CF Rios .247avg 17 hr .296obp .395slg—span .311 8hr .392obp .415slg
RF Carlos .236 21 hrs(99 games) .323 obp .456 slg—cuddyer .276 32 hrs .343obp .520slg
DH jones .214 17 hr(82 games) .323obp .459slg–kubal .300 28 hr .396obp .530slg
this was starters….mauer and AJ mauer obviously wins…1st is a push…2.push could go either way probably to gordon 3rd…Teahan wins…SS Alexi wins….LF..Juan wins for avg young wins for ops so push…CF..Span wins but rios has hrs RF is hard to say due to health those stats cuddyer wins clearly btu a healthy carlos puts up similar numbers…win for now twins but really a push…DH was based on who is penciled in as 2010 stater…Given that Jones only played half a season if u multiply by 2 to get full season stats that the number are close except for AVG which kubal wins…
so again the offense is very very simial..the rotation clearly is better for the whitesox i dare anyone to argue that…bullpen is very similar and a helthy gives nathan a run for his money..so besides rotation these teams are very similar so i dont get this TWIN love and TWINs are locks when relly its either team
While the twins always do good, I would go with the upper hand to the sox because of the rotation.
“so again the offense is very very simial”
When you look #1-5/6 through their lineup and see a bunch of high OBP guys with a middle of the lineup of Mauer/Morneau/Cuddyer/Kubel it looks like their gonna score alot of runs. When I look at the White Sox it really comes down to two guys, if Quentin can get back to form and Rios and come closer to his career numbers (which looks fairly likely) they’ll be ok. They still don’t have the tablesetters at the top and 3/4 elite punch the Twins have to score a ton of runs but other than the glaring inexcusable hole at DH the sox have a bunch of average to good offensive players that can hopefully score just enough runs to support their monster staff.
glaring hole at DH? what hole at DH its going to be Jones, or Carlos. Jones said he wants to be a starter. I saw a pic recent pic of him he lost a ton of weight and said he wants to compete to start. And I could see it happening. So then If jones comes into camp in shape and gets a starting spot and Carlos is the DH then there is no hole at all for DH…and Jones also hit 17 hrs last season in literally half a season. So again i dont understand the hole at dh
also the twins obp is not far from the sox and i some cases higher for the sox…there are only 2 players with a ton highers OBP and thats kuddyer and kubal
Remember they’re in a new ballpark this season, so half of their stats could considerably increase or decrease.
The early and late season games are going to be cooold, meaning less flight on the flyballs, less homeruns and more catch-able doubles. Cuddyer and Kubel could be hurt by this, so could Q, Rios, Konerko…
Either way, let’s let the teams play instead of blindly, and biased-ly, siding with the sox.
Detroit would be INSANE to offer more than 1 year and more than $5MM to Damon. I absolutely have to disbelieve Heyman on this. Then again, other GM’s that I respected have made even worse moves, like paying $10MM for Sheets on a rehab project, so I suppose anything is possible.
“posted by tigers22 9 hours ago
MORE? more than 14? Good god DD…”
++++++++++++++
LOL, I don’t know what you owner was thinking, I haven’t heard another team even in that same ballpark, he must really, really want Damon badly.
If I would predict Damon’s numbers for next season
*immediately he is going to a weaker lineup, wherever he goes so his numbers will decline on that fact alone
*he is going to be playing in parks that don’t have the rightfield where you can hit 17 HR at home out of 24 total and put up an OPS of ..915 at home, .795 away, a 120 point difference.
*He won’t be surrounded by Jeter, Tex, Arod in the order, which meant tons of opportunities and good pitches to hit.
*Unless he DH’s as well his defense will be more exposed in a weaker lineup, where his outfield arm and range will come into play, it was masked in Yankee Stadium because the Yankees led the majors in Runs, RBI’s, HR’s, Hits, Walks, OBP, SLG, OPS. They could just batter every team on offense and defense was less of an importance to save runs.
After all even with playing in Yankee Stadium, his arm was -4.2 runs below average, range -3.7 runs below average, UZR of -9.2 runs below average, with 5 errors as a Left Fielder.
That is not going to just get better playing in parks that favor pitching and defense and plays bigger than Yankee Stadium, whoever gets him had better have a DH spot open as well for some of the time.
If I would predict his 2010 season I would say
.280-.285 AVG, 13-15 HR, 65-70 RBI’s, 29 2B, 148 H
Homeruns and RBI’s which are much more in line with his career norms, he is not putting up career seasons at 36 outside of Yankee Stadium and those 81 home games that Right Field benefited him.
I’d like Damon, but please Braves, whatever you do, do NOT get in a bidding war for Damon.
I don’t think we will, Frankie already said that he’s happy with the club as it is. And offering him 4 mil is already stretching the team wallet, even with 2 mil deferred.
After reading all these posts from White Sox fans, a lot of your “ifs” are being taken for granted.
How about if:
Carlos Quentin lands on the DL, the same as every year
Pitchers learn how to work Beckham
Konerko, AJ numbers decline as they become a year older and slower
Freddy Garcia gets smacked around
Alex Rios is the same Alex Rios of the past 3 years
Bobby Jenks has another year like last year
Mark Teahan turns out to be average at best, at the plate and at 3rd
JJ Putz is not 100% after elbow surgery
Juan Pierre shows why he was a 4th outfielder last year with possibly the worst arm in all of baseball.
The DH committee of Vizquel/Kosay/Jones turns into a trainwreck
Many of those are not just possibilities, but probabilities.
We can all wish for whatever we want. As a Cub fan, my wish list is
Zambrano grows up and wins 20 games
Marmol has pinpoint control and 50 saves as closer
Soriano gets back to being a 40/40 guy like he was in Washington
Soto returns to his Rookie of the year form
Randy Wells gets even better and wins 18-20 games
If everybodies “ifs” and “wishes” come thru, both sides of town will win 120 games
I understand your point, but at the same time “ifs” and “wishes” are what the start of spring training is all about for every team across the league. You of all people should be familiar with that! What if….”This is the year!”
If all my “ifs” and “wishes” came thru, the sox better win more than 120 games.
In all seriousness though, you are very right. Atleast have of those scenarios are more than probable. That’s not being pessimistic, that’s being realistic. However, you can make the same argument for nearly every team.
half**
I get the what ifs but a few things carlos’s DL stints have been on freak injuries which is why him splitting time at DH will be good for him…also Your rios of the next 3 yrs comment makes no sense If Rios is like he was the past 3 yrs except for last season his average year is a .290+ avg and 20+hr year..if rios has that the sox are golden
if freddy gets smacked around thats what hudson is there for
Jenks is a good closer he lost alot of weight and was bad last year due to injury
if teahan is average then thats not a bad thing at all
putz and the doctors said he was fully recovered and he is not going to be a closer he is a set up guy so its ok if he is not 100%
Pierre was only a 4th OF becuase of Kemp, manny, and either, besides the past 2 yrs he has been a starter and a good one..weak arm yes but one of the fastest guys in the game, one of the best bunters(main reason kenny got him) in the game and a solid .300 avg hitter
I do agree that they are all ifs..heck if everything came true peavy will win the cy youngs, mark will throw another no hitter and win 18 games, gavin will win 20 and danks will win 17 all eras will be under 3 with whips right around 1…
as for your cubs comments there are a few problems
Big Z has never won close to 20 games, mainly becuase of the team behind him and his temper…Marmol is a bad closer and im surprised they went with him over the other candidates out there..Soriano is on the down side and will never be a 40/40 ever again..Soto needs to lay off the ganja to be his rookie form again…wells is still to young to say stuff like that
also to about the what ifs they happen all the way up until the world series. But the point of these boards and forums are for us fans to argue and fight with each other for fun to pass the time untill spring training. I doubt anyone here takes anything seriously or gets mad. Man If i had my what ifs the sox would win 135 games, the cubs would win 100 the yankees would win like 90. the Bosox win like 70, the M’s win around 90…the sox beat the yankees in the ALCS with a dual no hitter between peavy and CC and carlos walks it off. The world series is the White sox and Cubs, the series goes to the 7th game with the cubs ahead by 2 runs, Marmol walks the bases loaded and Gordon Beckham walks it off to win…haha that would be awesome