7:35pm: Mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune is up with a story on Thome not returning. According to Guillen, the at-bats for Thome simply weren't there.
7:01pm: Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times tweets that a source with the Twins told him Jim Thome's agent spoke with Minnesota this afternoon, meaning that "it's official – Jim ain't coming back." He added that manager Ozzie Guillen has confirmed this as well.
Cowley adds that Tampa Bay and Detroit are also in the running for Thome's services, but the Twins appear to be the frontrunner.
Thome would serve primarily as a pinch-hitter for Minnesota, though he could spell Jason Kubel occasionally at DH.
Its sad that Kenny Williams seems to feel satisfied with a gaping offense hole in an otherwise pretty decent team, Kotsay/Jones will not cut it. However Thome to the Twins makes next to little sense.
It makes sense if they DFA Young and put Kubel in LF.
Span – CF
Hardy – SS
Mauer – C
Morneau – 1b
CUddyer – RF
Kubel – LF
Thome – DH
Punto – 3rd/2nd
Warm Body – 2nd/3rd
DFA Young? He’s goin’ nowhere.
Because hes got upside or that trade blew up in Minnesota’s face?
Because he’s more valuable than a DFA. The Dude could still hit 20 bombs down the road.
LMFAO so we want to cut a kid under the age of 25 with a career batting avg of .290 comming off a career low .284 for a washed up player who can’t get a DH job in CHI over Andruw Jones? Sorry but Thome in his 19 years he only had 7 seasons over .284 and only once since 2002, and Young has 4 in 4 seasons! Why don’t we sign Frank Thomas and Julio Franco while we are at it!!!
agreed, i think he was banking on getting A-Gonz.
Thome is dead? OMG. This is tragic.
I’m just hoping the Twins front office finally comes to their senses and start talking to Hudson and/or Lopez
Danks50:
That’s not it at all. There are better options out there than a 40 year old one-dimensional homer-or-nothing hitter who has back and knee problems and can’t play a position.
Yet for a player that requires no position, his .865 OPS with the Sox would’ve made all the sense in the world. Considering a left handed power bat is exactly what this offense needs and the bench players currently occuping the DH spot. As for better options, I see Damon as a player that can somewhat fit that bill. However being represented by Boras automatically takes the White Sox out of the running.
KW needs to get JR to pony up for JD.Thats Johnny Damon for the acronymmatically challenged.
I’ve never hated on Ozzie before, but his interference with this and his rotating DH crap is really pissing me off.
Well since it’s Cowley I won’t completely believe it – but it doesn’t look good.
I was dreading that the White Sox were going to bring him back. He was mediocre at best with the Sox last year and I would be shocked if he was over .230 or .240 once he left for the Dodgers. He can’t pinch hit and without regular at bats, I have a feeling he’ll be awful. It’s too bad someone like Kansas City or Baltimore couldn’t use him.
Nobody knows Jim Thome better than the White Sox. They are taking a pass on Thome, and they have a nobody at all to D.H. That should tell the Twins everything they need to know.
the twins have morneau and mauer and kubel
your telling m they dont have left handed power
Dombrowski said the Tigers aren’t interested in another DH-only type so I guess that means … they’re in the running.
I have to wonder if all of this Thome business means Delmon Young might be on his way to being traded.
-Several were surprised Young was even tendered a contract, but Bill Smith would be hard-pressed to non-tender him just two years after trading so much for him
-The Twins haven’t voiced their interest in almost any free agent infielders despite a glaring need
-Trading Delmon would slot Kubel in left with Thome DHing.
-Glen Perkins is thought to be all but done in the Twin Cities, and has been rumored in trades ever since falling out of favor with the organization
A package of Young/Perkins+ isn’t really an overwhelming offer, but the Twins don’t necessarily have to be going after any blockbuster names, and they’re both still young with some degree of upside (though nowhere near what it once was).
I could be way off-base, but in my opinion, Thome is still too good of a hitter not to be starting somewhere. Swapping out Delmon and presumably Brendan Harris (projected 3B if Valencia doesn’t win the job in Spring Training) for Thome and whatever player would be acquired via trade would certainly improve the lineup, and could improve defense as well depending on the player brought in.
Maybe it’s all far-fetched, but I can’t really make much sense of this Thome business otherwise.
“Several were surprised that Young was even tendered a contract” ?!?
Several what? Voices in your head? No one was surprised that that happened.
There were plenty of writers who thought Delmon was at least a decent bet to be nontendered. Heck, even this site had him as a candidate. He’s done absolutely nothing as a Twin.
It would be silly to sell so low on Young, and no one of any repute has ever suggested he’d be nontendered. He’s not going anywhere, he’s the only descent RHed at bat beyond Cuddy. Here’s betting Thome finds 300 at bats this year.
Delmon has a lot of work to do before he earns the title of “decent” at the plate. He posted a .733 OPS last year as a corner outfielder. That’s horrendous.
I don’t even hate Delmon Young, and I’d love to see him succeed and make the trade look like it may have been worth it– but at a certain point you have to stop thinking of him as the 18-year-old kid who was drafted #1 overall and look at him as the 24-year-old who hasn’t put it together at all yet.
He slugged well in the second half, largely in part to a monster September, but we’ve seen a few hot streaks from Delmon before that have all ultimately resulted in more disappointment.
I didn’t say Delmon was descent at the plate, I said he’s the only decent *RHed * option beyond Cuddy; I used ‘decent’ as a relative comparison. I’m aware of his hitting woes, but the Twins are knee deep in LHed hitters, and Delmon as bad as he is is better than the other RHed options.
Like I said, you’re way off base when you suggested there was ever any notion of nontendering Delmon. Selling low on him is just as foolish.
The very fact that Bill Smith had to go on record as saying “Delmon Young is a lock to be tendered a contract” means that it was discussed enough in media circles to even be an issue. I’m not saying I thought Delmon was going to be non-tendered, but from a purely statistical standpoint, he probably deserved it. If that were another guy who hadn’t been the #1 overall pick or who hadn’t been acquired for Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett, he’d probably be gone.
He may be the next-best right-handed option not named Cuddyer, but he simply hasn’t ever shown anything.
You can say it’s foolish to sell low on him. I said the same thing last year and was thrilled he wasn’t traded. Now, his value is even lower. There comes a time when you have to look at it as “maybe we’re not selling low on him… maybe we’re trading him while there’s still enough optimism left to warrant interest from other clubs.”
Delmon’s defense is atrocious, and his bat doesn’t make up for it. He’s been a -1.7 WAR player for Minnesota and has a career OPS+ of 95, just ever-so-slightly better than Brendan Harris’ 91.
Maybe Young will turn it around, but I think “selling low” on Delmon is a pretty worthwhile risk if you can actually get some form of value out of it.
Well I can’t argue with someone who thinks the sentence “Delmon Young is a lock to be tendered a contract” alludes to the contrary.
Look, fetching Delmon for Garza and his status as a #1 pick create an atmosphere where is slow development is seen as failure, which in turn might create some fodder for bloggers and beat writers to ask a pointed question; but no one in the FO, I imagine, ever has given any indication that Delmon would be nontendered. What generates news is a far cry from the reality of the Front Office.
Selling low on Delmon by definition insinuates we wouldn’t be getting value.
Maybe it’s also old-school of me to consider Delmon’s loss of his mother early in teh season with his atrocious start; he played much better throughout the second half, and was a key part of the Tigers run down in Sept.
I don’t think Delmon will necessarily break out, but you don’t trade a RHed young bat, who was lauded as a prospect/rookie only two years ago and rushed because of his ML contract. This is esp. the case for the Twins who have no RH at bats that can even put up his meager mid 700 OPS. It doesn’t make sense, it reeks of videogame GMing.
At what point did I say that I thought Smith was debating non-tendering Young? I said “several” (alluding to media, beat writers, respected bloggers, etc.) were surprised he got a contract. The fact that it was ever enough of an issue for Bill Smith to have to point out illustrates that point. Some people thought he would be non-tendered. Smith had to refute it. Thus, my statement that “several were surprised he was even tendered a contract,” MLBTR included.
If the Twins trade Delmon and end up with a bat like Uggla (again, just an example), then they’ve added a right-handed bat to the lineup that’s far better than Delmon. Add a rebound year for JJ Hardy, which I think is far more likely than a good year for Delmon Young, and there’s three solid right-handed bats. Three solid RH bats, five strong LH bats, and a subpar switch hitter still make up a good offense when most of your left-handed weapons excel against LHP (Span, Mauer, Morneau).
I never said “Bill Smith almost non-tendered Delmon.” I said there was talk that he could be, which is true.
Fair enough. But I’d like to see some evidence that anyone outside some remote blogger was actually surprised that Delmon was offered a contract. I think that’s disingenuous. I read Minny papers I don’t recall anyone speculating Delmon would be nontendered. I’m sure you can generate some evidence since your so ardent in making this point.
If selling low on Delmon gets us Uggla that’s not selling low. Maybe we can turn Punto into Josh Johnson while we’re at it.
Getting Dan Uggla for Delmon and Perkins is not selling low at all imo. You know you’re getting 30+ jacks from Uggla (even though you’re also getting 150+ so’s and pretty awful defense). Who knows what will happen with Delmon and Perkins is not happy here.
Non-tendering him is sure “selling low.”
Ah sorry, you already posted this scenario. I should read all the comments before making one of my own.
The only team I’m coming up with that could use an outfielder and/or SP and has the infield depth to spare is Florida, though. Marlins team president just said Dan Uggla was the team’s opening day second baseman.
Still, saying Delmon and Perkins are the only MLB-level players in the deal from Minnesota, they’d be adding about $4.8MM in payroll, which is probably not drastically different than a free agent infielder (unless you go budget and say Crede, but I’m thinking Lopez/Hudson here).
There’s just not many available 2B/3B types… at least not that match up with what the Twins would move in this scenario.
The whole Thome thing has me confused. But, hey, the guy’s one of my all-time favorite players, so if the price is right and it doesn’t take the place of making a more crucial move, I say welcome Mr. Thome.
Did you come up with this one on your own? If so, very impressive, you should have your own column in the star tribune haha. That is a very interesting idea, it seems like it could work for both sides. I suppose it would hinge on how much the fish value delmon. If they see the upside of a number one overall pick or something near it, i could see this happening. The marlins president saying Uggla is the opening day starter doesnt necessarily mean much. I think we would need to sign another OF if we did this for depth. If Kubel goes down, i dont want Pridie playing everyday. One interesting idea i have heard is Eric Byrnes who was recently non tendered. He’s apparently looking for the league minimum and get the bounce back year. I think he would be a solid 4th of.
A full time backup DH. Don’t see that everyday.
the twins have to much left handed power
mauer mourneau kubel
Over/under on White Sox players who hit 25+ HRs this year?
I say 1 – Konerko, with barely over 25. Quentin will figure out a new way to get hurt, Beckham could hit about 20, and the rest of the team is completely offensively challenged. and they arent that great defensively either. That rotation better be like the early 90’s Braves, or that team is toast….quickly
You will be very surprised then.
delete
I’m a southside die hard and am thrilled to hear that Jim won’t be back. This team desperately needs an identity change. I don’t mind the rotating DH idea, either. Jim’s a class act and no one in Chicago can say a bad word about him, but it’s time to move on.
Gonna miss big Jim. He really was a base clogger though. Don’t think Kenny’s done btw.
Yeah – Thank God we don’t have to deal with a base clogger anymore. With the new ‘rotating lousy hitter’ those guys will be much more efficient by always making outs.
Maye the plan is to platoon Kotsay and Jones in RF and DH Quentin. If (meaning when) this proves to be seriously lacking, they will be in a position to trade for a RF/DH near the all star break.
So the strategy is to wait till they have lost a bunch of winnable games and then play catch up.
Here, take this gun and kill me.
C’mon, el doggo, it’s just a game. Besides, what if that mid-season trade is for Adrian Gonzalez and PK becomes the DH?
Ozzie’s obviously been watching the Twins’ strategy for the last several years, and has decided to emulate it.
I dont think its as much about the rotating thing, thats a cover ploy for the real issue. Ozzie doesn’t want any lumberjacking basecloggers on his team. Thats why its much more likely that the sox bring in like Blalock or Damon and then they could say see we just didnt want someone that can only DH.
Blalock isn’t a lumberjack? And he can field? Heck, even Damon can’t really field.
oh god. ozzie doesn’t want this–ozzie doesn’t want…whatever. he can go scratch.
his numbers last year (sox):.249/.372/.493 OPS+122
Ugh, pinch hitter role. I know he is old, but Big Jim still has it. He just want AB’s….someone out there will get him very cheap.
Glad to move on from Thome… I just couldn’t stand watching him swing and miss at junk low and away anymore. He is also a serious liability on the base paths at this point as well.
Bring on Damon, Delgado, or Braynan
Makes sense, he is willing to take a bench role in on a team that has a chance to win the World Series- unlike his former team.
Unless the Sox make a significant trade for some offensive production, the Tigers are walking away with the Central in 2010. This team is not going to score squat this year.
lol the Tigers got worse in the offseason….It is a Sox vs Twins battle.
Actually, the Tigers got much better this offseason. You may not know the names as well, but each replacement projects better than the castoffs.
We’ll see, you may be right.
Scherzer is better than Edwin Jackson
Austin Jackson’s not better than Curtis Granderson yet.
Valverde improves them over Fernando Rodney by leaps and bounds.
Losing Polanco and relying on Scott Sizemore could hurt. They also don’t have a replacement for the quality innings that Brandon Lyon miraculously delivered last season.
Scherzer and Valverde are great pieces, but it’s tough to say they’re decisively better without Polanco, a setup man, and Curtis Granderson. Add aging players to the bill and they’re likely to end up worse, though improvement isn’t entirely out of the realm of possibility. It depends on Sizemore and AJax more than anything.
Is AJax going to start the year in the minors or with the Tigers?
Should start as their Opening Day center fielder and leadoff man from what I’ve read…
Wow, that is quite the load for a rookie.
Depends on how he looks in the spring, but they’ve already said once exhibition starts he’ll be in center leading off
I also think we improved ourself through trades. Maybe not exactly for this season, but as an organization. And yeah losing Curt and Polanco is going to hurt, but it was time.
As for replacing Lyon, that’s going to be fine. It may not exactly come from one person but we have a combination of arms that can handle the 7th and 8th. Between Schlereth, Coke, Perry, and a healthy Zumaya they’ll be alright to replace those innings.
If they stay healthy, the sox should be very very good.
1) Pierre
2) Beckham
3) Quentin
4) Konerko
5) Ramirez
6) Pierziensky (sp)
7) Rios
8) Jones
9) Whoever is replacing dye i dont know
That lineup could be very dangerous, i dont care who bats 9. Plus, it doesnt look like will need to put up a ton of runs to win. If Peavy returns from injury, their pitching staff is the best in the central by far.
I don’t know, that lineup will be last in the league in OBP, they have no one who will take a walk and not much in BA either. Last year the Sox lost the fewest games in the majors to injuries, and even though I may be completely wrong, I believe in the law of averages and that means trouble for the Sox this year. If I’m betting, I’ll say they lose at least one starter, statistically Danks is most vulnerable, followed by Peavy. Quentin always collapses,(6 straight years) and with guys like Jones, Putz, Jenks Garcia,Linebrink, Kotsay and Aj, they are betting on a lot of guys with bad histories and have a really weak farm system to protect them. I just don’t see any margin of error and a team with a very poor defensive lineup needs runs, no matter who the starters are.
The other thing is that Peavy has always been able to start batters with two breaking balls playing with 70% of his games in the big stadiums out west, if he got behind he always threw a fastball and let em hit it. After the first few times through the league, if he tries that in Chicago, he’s going to get killed. His FO numbers are really bad for a park like the Cell.
Again, we’ll see, but my bet is the Sox are a lot closer to .500 this year than most Sox fans think.
I don’t think we are done making moves yet..The White Sox have one of the best trainers in baseball that is why we tend to have very few injuries….I think one could make the case that Quentin is due to play a full season…the odds are in his favor.
I agree with you on more moves coming, I was really surprised they didn’t trade Jenks, the percentage of budget allocated to the bullpen is highest in the league and Jenks is way overpaid. They seem to really need a big lefty bat, along with about 18 other teams, and hopefully Kenny doesn’t go after another has been, Jones/Griffey type, that he tends to like. His problem is that he is caught on budget and it’s going to be hard to shed payroll from that team, nobody will take a Konerko off their hands, so what are they going to do? I really think the Peavy and Rios move are going to kill this team, they just take up to high a percentage of payroll to justify their spots.
And Quentin, he gets hurt every year for a reason, and some of his Stanford injuries are beyond highly suspicious. I’d love to take the bet that he goes down again.
I hate to sound so critical, but I think this team is in trouble.
Guys coming off the juice tend to tend to injure easily.
You clearly know the sox better than I do. Of course no one knows what will happen with injuries, but if quentin can stay healthy, and i know thats a big if, I think you will have a solid lineup. Just a couple years ago, Rios was very good offensive cf’er. Beckham is a very good hitter and should continue to emerge into an allstar. We shall see it will be a good race again. Hopefully our division isnt considered the joke of the AL again like last year though, that got a little annoying on sportscenter after a while.
Off topic, but how in the world did the Twins get a stadium without a roof.
I really don;t understand it.
I remember being up there in 91 for the World series and about a week after it, it snowed something like 44 inches in 24 hours. How does this team not have a domed facility? The 91 WS ended about a week before Halloween, that’s not the case anymore.
Well we were kind of wondered the same thing when we heard that. The easiest and most likely answer is the notoriously cheap and business oriented pohlads. While they are the richest family in baseball, they do not spend more than they bring in. It is incredibly annoying for us fans, but that is how they choose to spend their money. I’m guessing they took the “If you want a roof, then you pay for it” approach towards the tax payers. It sounds awful, and unfair, but it is their franchise and they are very successful in running it. There is also the outdoor baseball aspect of it. Baseball is meant to be played outdoors blah blah blah.. I’d say we did alright with the dome lol. No I am of course extremely happy to be out of the dome, but a retractable roof definitely seemed like the best option. I think the whole baseball is meant to be played outdoors idea was more of a way for the Twins to quiet the anger that some fans had when they learned there wouldnt be a roof. At the end of the day though, I think nearly all Twins fans, and baseball fans are happy that the Twins are out of the football field and onto grass.
I mean, that’s not ENTIRELY accurate… They dropped this ballpark into a lot whose size was pre-determined. From all the drawings and calculations I saw, there just wasn’t enough room to add the roof. I definitely wish there was *something* though…
April, May, half of June and October are going to be brutal for the pitchers.
Yea i was basically speculating there. I have driven by the park a few times and to be honest, i’m not impressed with the location at all. There is absolutely no space around the stadium. Its not even like the dome.. at least it was taller than the other buildings in the immediate vicinity. Target field seems so crowded and jammed in, i wish they would have put it in a burb. But hey, I can’t complain about a new stadium in minnesota. The field/stadium itself is gorgeous and it will be a blast to watch games in.
Pohlad has brought more baseball championships to the Twins in the last 22 years than the two Chicago teams combined have in the last 192 years, and done it with some fiscal responsibility. Cheap or frugal, you get some quality for your dollar with great frequency up there, in Chicago the same can not be said.
I’m still unhappy about the North Stars, but thats another story. Game 6 of the 91 series, the Bruins were in town that night (4-0 Minni) and about 1000 people showed up. The rest saw the greatest baseball game ever played.
Haha what were the 1000 thinking! Yea man, i’m only 19 so i dont remember a whole lot about the northstars, but how a hockey team from minnesota leaves, i do not know.
Seriously … that lineup shouldn’t intimidate anyone. Some nice pieces – sure. If Rios bounces back and Quentin stays healthy … you might have something.
When I look at that lineup I see a lot of “ifs”. Either injury or unknown production. How many of those guys can you accurately predict success?
Don’t forget Teahan.
There is not one move the White Sox have done this offseason that I have liked. I guess that sets my expectations low.
The 2010 White Sox will be without Thome, Dye, Podsednik, and Getz.
In 2009, the four of them combined for:
257 runs scored
473 hits
234 RBI’s
59 Home Runs
I do not think the combined efforts of Teahan, Vizquel, Andruw Jones and Juan Pierre will even come remotely close to matching those numbers.
The White Sox are going to have to win a lot of 2-1 or 3-2 games to be a factor in the A.L. Central this year.
Two things:
1. The division will come down to the Twins and Sox. I like the Tigers moves, but not for this season. The young guys will need some time to gel and improve. I am NOT excited that Phil Coke is now in our division. The Sox have better pitching, if they stay healthy I almost have to believe they are the favorites. Although I am not high on their position player moves (Jones, Rios and Pierre? … ish)
2. I am not usually a Pohlad defender, but they did dump a bunch of their own money in… they paid about 35-40% of the total cost of the staduim (total contribution is near $200 mil- Hennipin Co paid $350 mil according to Bloomberg) Which isnt bad compared to other venues. Also, the reason there wasnt a roof is because “No-Tax” Tim Pawlenty refused to agree to a state wide funding solution. Since the Hennipin County folks are paying for it, there is less concern for the outstate folks in terms of rainouts. The weather is not all that different than Det, Cle, Boston, Chi or NY… so I am not sure what the concern is. Besides, the park is f-ing beautiful. Cant wait for opening day, even if I have a stocking cap on.
To me it seems obvious what the Sox were doing by voicing their consideration of adding Thome. The twins want to add him and the sox were purposely driving the price up on the twins. Typical baseball machinations.
I’m a sox fan, and to me Thome would be a great addition and makes alot of sense for the twins. Especially, given the grind of the whole baseball season. Maur and Morneau could go down again and Cuddyer amazing season may not be a repeatable.
Side note: It makes me laugh when people get mad at these teams for “not spending the money” and being fiscally responsible. Its bad enough tax payers partially foot the bill for these exorbitant stadiums. Any business/person can only run for so long with expenditures surpassing income. In the end, the Twins are always competitive and operate within the budget dictated by the sales. I tip my cap in respect for them.
Minnesota radio show “The Common Man” is evidently reporting that Thome is a Twin.