The Rangers officially signed infielder Khalil Greene today to a one-year, $750K deal. The agreement was first reported by MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan on January 9th.
Greene, 30, hit .200/.272/.347 in 193 plate appearances for the Cardinals last year, tallying 240.3 innings at shortstop and 96 at third base. He'll serve as a utility infielder for Texas. On December 4th, 2008, the Cards acquired Greene from the Padres for pitchers Mark Worrell and Luke Gregerson. Greene had a promising spring, but hit the DL in May with social anxiety disorder. Earlier this month, ESPN's Buster Olney wrote that Greene has been working out diligently at Vanderbilt this offseason with his former college coach.
Interesting.. Definitly didn’t see this move coming. Guy has potential to be a 20 20 guy batting .275 in Arlington. And he’s cheap
….too bad he’s been stuck at “potential” his entire career. I don’t see how a utility role with the Rangers is gonna buck that trend.
Hopefully Khalil will have a good season and hit the free agent market next year labeled as a starting shortstop. He will do a good job this season backing up Young, Kinsler and Andrus.
How will he get much playing time backing up Young, Kinsler and Andrus? Its hard to see how subbing for them will help him get a starting job.
Because for the time he does play, He could put up solid numbers and solid enough that He could be This seasons Juan Uribe. He could bang out 15 Home runs through out the season and could show good defensive strides. Juan Uribe.
Khalil Greene is not even close to an upgrade over Omar Vizquel. The Rangers shouldn’t have let him walk.
As a Mariners fan I like this move because he will likely take up a 25-man roster spot for the Rangers. A smarter deal for a team pursuing Greene should be a minor league contract with an invite to Spring Training.
Quality guy in Khalil! If he is emotionally ready to play baseball he a very talented player that IMO was greatly affected by the massive dimensions and intangibles that come into play at the extreme pitchers park in Petco. Even if he never regains his 07 form, which I think he still has a very good chance of doing in park like Arlington with some steady Ab’s he will still be a VERY good back up!
750K for a great back up defender, great sign! Low risk HIGH upside.
Greene is as fundamentally sound at SS than anyone in baseball.
Good luck Khalil!
Greene really hasn’t been of value since the 07 season. He has never been a great defender, he’s actually been a terrible defender the past two seasons. He has no experience playing 2B at the major league level and almost no experience at 3B.
Having Greene as the back-up defender in 2010 will make the Rangers miss Vizquel.
I lost you at “He has never been a great defender” lol WOW!The past two seasons he has had serious anxiety issue which of course has hindered his production, needless to say. However, IF Greene is mentally ready and still wants to play the game, he is one of the best defenders in baseball, YEA.. baseball!NOT only that, he will be a utility infielder, its not as if he is expected to play 100 games. He also played 3rd base in college. While he has never played 2nd on the pro level, the guy is extremely athletic and is a work out machine, I wouldn’t put anything pass Greene, the key will be his state of mind NOT his “tools” or talent!
Season-by-season UZR:’03: -1.1’04: 2.2’05: -6.3’06: 4.3’07: -3.0’08: -7.5’09: -6.1Hardly “one of the best defenders in baseball”, but not terrible. Below average.
“He has never been a great defender…” You sir have greatly underestimated his skills defensively. I would definitely agree that his batting numbers are not great. But if Greene were to get over his personal issues, he has the potential to be a great back-up, if not an everyday starter.
Agree completely, I wish KG the best. It’s too bad that the anxiety seems to have taken a chunk out of his career, I hope he has everything figured out….the Cards seemed more helpful then the Padres were in that regard.
so sad for a guy like him… i remember when he was first on the padres he was a pretty big prospect, now he’s going to be a utility player.
wish him the best. has so much potential. just hope he can work through his personal issues
I still think Khalil Greene has the power potential to thrive in a place like Texas.
But didn’t he go to Clemson? I remember watching him the CWS and he was an absoult beast.
wow. sean penns twin! i didnt know he was a free agent
Just an outstanding pickup. Should be a quality IF depth move and a very good price. This Texas team just continues to make moves that is going to maybe push Anaheim down to a 3rd place finish?
Seriously doubt it, the Angels are still the favorites in the division.
Close 3 team race,no doubt. 88-92 wins will win this division and it’s up for grabs as I see it.
How does adding a 600 OPS SS with anxiety issues make any real difference on the AL West race? Best case scenario the guy remembers how to hit (it’s been 2 years since he was decent with the bat) and avoids future trips to the DL. I just don’t see how that accounts for anything.
I mean, it’s a fine signing. Low risk, low reward type move. Just don’t understand how this move pushes Anaheim. I’m pretty sure they have 25 players on their 25 man roster today who are all better than Greene.
Low/no risk and high reward for a SS that has hit for really good power and is in one of the 3-4 best parks in the game for him to hit in *IF* he has over came those issues and if he has not overcame those issues, or he does not hit like some think he may? Still a fairly useful SS/2B/3B utility guy for 750K gamble, based on the numbers he put up in probably the worst hitting park for him in the game from 2004-2007. The swing he has and Arlington stadium and the way it carries there? If he does come back, Vlad’s injury history returns and they have his replacement right there. Just a great all around sign it looks like.
Now all we need is a veteran catcher, but I doubt we have the money. What an offseason for the rangers. Harden, Vlad, Oliver, and now Greene. WOW!!
I think signing a veteren catcher would be a mistake. You’ve got three young catchers with tremendous upside. The Rangers should juggle them until one of them figures out the major leagues. Forcing them to take a step back would be big mistake.
This is a great pickup. guy has played at a pitcher’s park his whole career. played under massive pressure for a good part of his career. had trouble dealing with it. Now, in Arlington, hitter’s paradise, with no pressure whatsoever. I mean, yes of course there’s pressure to hit well to earn a big contract next year, but no one has expectations for him. I expect 15-20 HMrs off the bench in Arlington, and when Kinsler has his once-in-the-season normal injury, i think it will be Greene that steps in and keeps this team contending. I love all these one year deals texas is doing with harden, vlad, and now greene and am by no means a ranger fan. Keep up the good work in Arlington.
also the Rangers got Greene cheaper than Vizquel, and Greene has a much higher ceiling than Vizquel at this point in the respective careers.
This is obviously a group of guys who know little about defensive statistics and their contribution to the game. News flash: It takes more than offense to win ball games!
News flash: you OBVIOUSLY do not not much about this player!!!!!
And I suppose you’re the expert?
I just look at the stats and make my call from there. According to the statistics, Greene hasn’t starter quality since the end of 07 and he has never been a great defender. Take a look at the numbers before you go making vague statements about how much I know!
What numbers would those be? lolI have followed Greene through College and had the privilege of watching him come up through the Padres organization and play day in day out. I don’t think there is ONE authoritative source/analyst in all of baseball that would agree with your amateur assessment.Its obvious how much you know, which would be VERY little!
Just because you are a fan of a player doesn’t make you the authority on that players value. Can you back up your so called analysis with numbers? Go ahead and try.
you’re not really backing up what you’re saying either
vizquel is still elite defensively, he’s averaged <.300 wOBA the last three seasons. khalil isn't old and isn't coming back from any kind of physical injury. the dude has been ~3 WAR player 3 times in his career. no way vizquel has a ceiling that high at this point in his career
“Can you back up your so called analysis with numbers? Go ahead and try.”
CAN YOU? you were the one boasting about the numbers you looked at and made your amateur analysis from.
I am not a Greene fan per se, I am an informed BB fan that follows minor league BB as well as major league BB. that has given me insight to him specifically.
As I said before, there would not be ONE authoritative source that would agree with your amateur analysis and complete nescience to this particular player. You do not have to be an expert to see that he is one of the better fundamentally sound defenders in all of BB.
That should be obvious even to the novice BB fan!
Here are some numbers I posted better than 10 minutes ago-
Khalil Greene’s career numbers:
.245 Batting Average
.302 On Base Percentage
-3.9 Ultimate Zone Rating per 150 defensive Games
And once again NO STATISTICS TO BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY!
I understand that Greene has the advantage of youth over Vizquel, but Greene just is not in Vizquel’s league defensively.
Vizquel: +7.2UZR/150 at SS over 22754.2IP and 1.8WAR in 09
Greene: -3.9UZR/150 at SS over 5941.2IP and -0.8WAR in 09
Your original statement was, “He has never been a great defender” the stats below prove you dead wrong!!!If you remember I said, The past two seasons he has had serious anxiety issue which of course has hindered his production, needless to say. So, genius, I conceded the fact from the jump he had been hindered by his production since 07! Obviously that has affected his OVER ALL stats, not just one or two years while being severely depressed with major anxiety issues VS. his entire career “Tony LaRussa has always been a defense first guy at shortstop. From Mike Bordick to Royce Clayton, LaRussa wants his shortstops to defend well, and if they hit, that’s a nice bonus. Clearly, the Cardinals wouldn’t have acquired Greene had they not been convinced that he could handle playing shortstop at a level satisfactory to LaRussa’s desires. So what do we make of Greene’s defense?Well, his +/- ratings from 2006 to 2008 go from +13 to +7 to -4. If each year was considered an isoloated result, we’d conclude that two years ago Greene was one of the game’s best defenders at the toughest position to field but had fallen off substantially since then, to the point of being below average now.”Love how you left that “nugget” out, any other questions….Again remember your initial statement!
Look man I have no idea where you are getting these numbers from:
“Well, his +/- ratings from 2006 to 2008 go from +13 to +7 to -4”
I assume you mean UZR/150 because you are talking about defense, but your numbers are way off!
06: +6.3
07: -3.1
08: -11.0
His -3.9UZR/150 Career numbers are proof of his below average Career defending SS. HE IS NO GREAT DEFENDER!
Would you like the link?Its fangraphs.I think “sabermetrics” can be valuable but also think at times are very deceiving. Ryan Howard at 1st base or Mark Texiera? Look it up!You cannot solely determine a players defensive capabilities with those type of stats, OBVIOUSLY Tony LaRussa Agrees with me, along with many other scouts.
The proof I gave you refutes your statement, period!!
I love how you feel so close to LaRussa and Scouts/Analysts around the League.
Look, I have the link. Defensively Greene is a career below average defender -3.9UZR/150 at SS. He has a poor Career BA at .245. He has a poor Career OBP at .302.
Overall he was once a serviceable SS who could muscle out a few HR and not embarrass himself defensively. Other than that there wasn’t anything to indicate his greatness. 08 and 09 aside.
I think this has been hashed out enough. And I’m sure you won’t see to reason. Have a good one, it’s been fun!
So you dismiss experts! I laid it out Barney style for you and you still don’t get it! I provided quotes and stats from authoritative sources, not just one, that REFUTE your statment period! LMAOI also conceded the fact that since 07 he has been hindered, what do you not get, besides a clue? Wow, while I could continuously make you look like a fool all night with many stats and scouting reports, you seem to do that quite well all by your lonesome. lolThis was amusing, but unfortunately for you only at your expense.Good call, nice spin back track drivel blah!
Also NO response to the fact that these methods of rating players CAN be some what flawed, not exactly a precise science!
You guys are arguing over a BACKUP INFIELDER! for the love of christ at least argue over someone who is actually relevant.
I am only correcting the misinformed and very ignorant statment he made.
I have no agenda here.
You 2 have been going back and forth for over an hour over a guy that isn’t going to see much playing time this year barring an injury, on a 2nd or 3rd place team in the AL West. While i hope the best for guys like him and Justin Duchscherer be realistic with Young Kinsler and Andrus he isnt going to see the field much without one of them getting hurt. Whether or not you choose to believe it he is a below avreage defender at SS and as had little to no MLB experience at 2B or 3B. While i hope he does succeed he is hardly worth going on and on about for an hour plus.
fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/khalil-greenes-defen…
Here is the link to the story where Dave Cameron from Fangraphs says Greene was 13,7,-4 from ’06 to ’08.
+/- is from Bill James, which is not published on Fangraphs.
Finally some numbers and they are wrong, or at the least unexplained.
I asked you if you wanted the link? I would assume bye your lack of response You do not want the link? I wonder why.. it refutes your initial statement, which was my main point! You asked for stats, I gave you them and what I made them up? lol again DO YOU WANT THE SEVERAL LINKS??? I could provide more then 1! Not just quotes from analysts but players and fan graph stats as well..You say you have “the link” but yet are sorely misinformed.
Pretty simple,Well, his +/- ratings from 2006 to 2008 go from +13 to +7 to -4. If each year was considered an isoloated result, we’d conclude that two years ago Greene was one of the game’s best defenders at the toughest position to field
omar was worth 1.2 WAR last year according to fangraphs. and i don’t see how you can use khalil’s (or omar’s) career stats to try and get an accurate portrayal of their true talent. omar is old and is way past his hitting prime and khalil has had unconventional set backs. it’s not like he was injured. and he’s right around average defensively. if he can put up a .750-.800 OPS, he will be a pretty valuable. he can also take on a full time job if necessary.
either way, it’s kinda hard to call a one year signing for less than a million a bad signing
Even at the age of 43 in April Vizquel is projected by CHONE to be worth 0.6WAR in 2010.
Greene on the other hand at the age of 30 is projected by CHONE to be worth 0.5WAR in 2010.
statistical projections are context neutral. i think it’s only fair to apply context a situation like khalil’s
You guys, give it a rest! He has great range and a good arm. but he does mess up a lot of routine plays(lack of concentration?). He has a hole in his swing, but will hit a mistake a long way. Stats are not the whole story when judging a player. He is not Omar, but he is worth the risk. There, now can we all get along?
Good to see Khalil getting another job in baseball. Hopefully Arlington gets his career back on track.
I was sorta hoping Greene would find a starting spot this season and bounceback. Maybe next year
This is a strange choice for Greene if he wanted to make a comeback or get a starting job somewhere.
Rangers looking strong this season..
I think JD has a trick up his sleeve to get a starting pitcher. Maybe Garland if he signs a 2-3 million dollar deal with 2-3 mill in incetives.
I’m glad someone gave him a chance. Geez for that money I would’ve liked to see the Tigers get him to back up the light hitting Adam Everett.
Khalil Greene’s career numbers:
.245 Batting Average
.302 On Base Percentage
-3.9 Ultimate Zone Rating per 150 defensive Games
He should flourish offensively in Texas and as a utility infielder, he will be fine defensively. Does Arlington have a Baha’i Temple, incase he goes nutso again?
Khalil is a good glove man with some pop in his bat. He has had his issues the last few years but the reports are he is working hard to make it back. I hope he makes it all the way back, and he will be a good guy to have on the bench. If someone is injured Kahlil can pop right in.
Nice move by the Rangers. He can be a decent plug in if Andrus or Young go down and he has some pop in his bat. It would have been nice if Vizquel would have stayed but he wanted to play for a high profile team. Not a move that will put them over the top but a nice addition.
for those of you that reference back to vizquel having more value defensively, the difference is really marginal at this point. vizquel’s greatest value last year was mentoring elvis andrus to become the defensive stud he is. they can move on from him. players that come off the bench like khalil greene will, are more expected to hit than they are to field, especially in the AL. Most of the time, Greene will mainly be used in interleague play for double switches and ect. Its not like he or Vizquel would ever have been a “defensive” replacement for the defensively astute Andrus.
You obviously have never seen Greene play. All you had to do is watch ESPN on any given night to see the web gems. One obscure defensive statistic doesn’t prove your point. Especially one that doesn’t even take into accout the throw which is very important for his position. There really aren’t difinititive defensive statistics that show how good a player really is. You have to watch a player every day to find out which I had the pleasure of doing. Khalil may not have Ozzie Smith range but he makes unbelievable plays and has an accurate strong arm.
“Overall he was once a serviceable SS who could muscle out a few HR”
27 HR’s is a few? He also hit 15 each of the 3 years before that while being injured each of those 3 years. It’s pretty obvious from your posts you aren’t familiar with the player and your just looking up overrated statistics.
uzr accounts for arm/throws
Glad he is back on his feet with another MLB team. I hope he has his head on straight. Will miss him a tiny bit in STL, but not much because he was not with the team long.
is it me or is this one heck of a deal
you think the rangers won’t do anythign this offseason! BAM BAM you got khalil greene and vlad
Guess this answers my question about who would want Greene. With Andrus in there, Greene most likely won’t get many AB’s to prove he’s a viable SS starting candidate in MLB. It’s kind of a shame too cuz he was such a heralded prospect many years ago that just could not develop any type of consistency with his bat. I wish him well though as I want my Khalil Greene baseball cards to increase in value. (not banking it)
Good pick up. Even though he has some depression, anxiety problems hopefully he can get through them and become effective like he was with the Padres.
Not to mention Harden and Oliver as well.
I think that’s the plan, just a year delayed. Hopefully he gets straightened out in Texas, not alot of pressure on him, he can take strides towards becoming a starter somewhere in 2011. It sure would be nice to see.
Kevin Towers totally knew what he was doing when he traded Greeney to the Cards, last year they even accused them of doing it. You guys need to listen to a couple radio interviews with this guy…. I actually liked him back in the day (because we was a Padre fan fav. for his hustle) but he is kinda Kooky dude, he talks with a “Eminem” like demeanor and is about a fun of a guy as Oscar the grouch… I remember interviews on 1090 that after both side hung up the dj would be silent for a sec and then say “theres Khalil Greene for ya” in a nice sarcastic voice. So seeing the Anxiety stuff come about a year later wasn’t a huge shock…I hope he can pop some pills and be ok though, I just hope it lets hm become a better person as well as a player…..because he was kind of a turd personality wise lol
So what is it with the Rookie SS’s of 2004, Crosby (AL ROY) and Greene (2nd NL ROY)? Injuries, overrated or both. These guys both seem to have hit a brick wall and are lucky to that someone else is giving them an opportunity. Maybe they’ll turn it around, but they’re both beginning the back 9 of 30.
Greene won’t get into more then 60 games this year backing up Kinsler, Young, and Andrus. Unless of course one of them goes down with an injury
Greene won’t get into more then 60 games this year backing up Kinsler, Young, and Andrus. Unless of course one of them goes down with an injury
The guy really just needs to quit baseball. I know $750k isn’t anything to sneeze at, but he is a millionaire, presumably.
Watching him with the Cardinals last year was pretty painful (pun not intended), especially once the stories about him hurting himself came out. He’s also just not really a shortstop any more, he was awful there. Decent at 3B though.
The guy really just needs to quit baseball. I know $750k isn’t anything to sneeze at, but he is a millionaire, presumably.
Watching him with the Cardinals last year was pretty painful (pun not intended), especially once the stories about him hurting himself came out. He’s also just not really a shortstop any more, he was awful there. Decent at 3B though.
Guys; can’t we all just get along? Stats are not everything. He’s not Omar, but he is worth the risk. He has great range and a good arm. He does mess up his share of routine plays, but I believe this is a concentration issue. He has a hole in his swing; however, he will hit a mistake a long way. I really don’t think the question is his talent, just his mental toughness. I’m sorry, but I like the guy.