Joel Pineiro officially signed a two-year deal with the Angels worth about $16MM today. The Cardinals will receive a supplemental first round pick as compensation for losing the Type-B free agent. The 31-year-old Pineiro probably won't match the departed John Lackey, but he was the best available free agent starter.
Pineiro will apparently receive just $1MM more than Jason Marquis despite having a much better 2009 season. Pineiro pitched like an ace, with a 3.49 ERA in 214 innings for the Cardinals. His 60.5% groundball rate and 1.1 walks per nine innings were both MLB bests. Cards pitching coach Dave Duncan deserves credit for the former, as Duncan convinced Pineiro in February to try a sinker. The walk rate may be more difficult to repeat.
The Mets and Dodgers were also known to be pursuing Pineiro. They'll now have to turn to Jon Garland, Jarrod Washburn, and Braden Looper for bulk innings. Ben Sheets, Erik Bedard, John Smoltz, and Chien-Ming Wang provide the post-injury upside. Pedro Martinez sits somewhere in-between.
Ken Davidoff of Newsday first tweeted Pineiro's Angels preference, while SI's Jon Heyman and ESPN's Buster Olney followed with tweets of the agreement.
Tim Dierkes contributed to this post.
this still doesn’t replace lackey.
There not trying to replace lackey with Pineiro, there just looking to add to SP depth, I just hope its a 1 yr deal..
It better be a 1 year deal. Man this sucks. Signing Piniero might be a bigger let down than Rodney.
Angels are better with Reckling than Pinerio. Yeah for your guys sake you better hope its only a 1 year deal, but last I heard Mets offered 2/16 so unless he decided to take less and a 1 year deal it looks like it might be more.
Reckling wouldn’t be the alternative. It would be someone out of Palmer, O’Sullivan or Bell.
Reckling could out pitch Palmer and O’Sullivan with his right hand.
4.99 BB/9 in AA last year kinda discredits your point, don’t you think?
I’m just saying that Trevor Reckling is going to turn out to be the next Cole Hamels (when he’s on). Outstanding change up but he isnt ready for the Majors yet. They still need to groom him and fix his control but when he’s ready…He will be ready!
so it looks pretty official. reaggins just made a huge mistake.
but he will right in with matthews, rodney, and fuentes in a quartet of contracts that will throttle our ability to compete or sign players that are actually worth multiple year deals at high dollars.
Considering they may not let Fuentes’s option vest for 2011, his contract may not be an issue.
But this and Rodney’s deal are hardly throttling. Stoneman did screw up big time with Matthews though.
maybe not throttling, but they don’t make us significantly more competitive with NY or Boston.
I agree…I think that Trevor Reckling is the best pitching prospect in all of Baseball. The Guy will dominate once he’s Major League Ready. I just don’t know where he fits in in 2010…They should trade Saunders for a third baseman. I don’t think that Brandon Wood is a good fit at third for the Angels. His defense is not up to par even though his power is exceptional.
I’m not sure whether:
A. You’ve been hangin’ with Tim Lincecum or
B. You’re Trevor Reckling’s agent
As for your claim below that Reckling is baseball’s #1 pitching prospect, let me give you a few names: Stephen Strasburg, Kyle Drabek, Martin Perez, Madison Bumgarner, Wade Davis, Jeremy Hellickson, Casey Kelly, etc. Reckling is young, left-handed, and has very good upside, but please don’t mention him in the same breath as a guy like Strasburg. Kevin Goldstein projects him as a #3 starter. And the Cole Hamels comparisons? Please don’t.
First of all…The only reason why everyone knows of Casey Kelly is because he has been mentioned in A-Gon and Halladay trades. Stras hasnt proven himself yet there is just a lot of hype. Drabek okay…Hellickson…okay you got me but I’m just saying that Reckling is definetly in the same conversation as those that you just mentioned. The kid has great stuff. Needs some grooming on his fastball command but hes only 19. Martin Perez has his problems and he’s only 18. The reason why prospects are prospects is because they have their flaws. Thats why they have Minor League Baseball. And also whether or not Reckling is a number 1 2 3 4 or 5 starter, Perez, Davis, Hellickson, Alderson…Those guys are not exactly number ones themselves and I wouldn’t say they are better than Trevor Reckling.
Sorry sir, but I’ll trust Baseball America, scouts, and BP and just go out on a limb and say Strasburg is a better prospect than Reckling. Same with Drabek, Hellickson and a host of others. In fact, Reckling may not be the top pitching prospect in his own organization. A heathy Jordan Walden gets my vote there.
The Cole Hamels comp. was just dumb. Cole Hamels walks like 2 batters per 9, not 5. I didn’t even think of Casey Kelly or Strasburg.
Also for SPAN, Reckling was 20 last season, not 19 now.
Lol, yeah, Madison Bumgarner, Neftali Feliz, Derek Holland, Chris Tillman, Brian Matusz, and like 20 other pitching prospects might have a problem with what you just said.
Derek Holland should. The kid is nasty. But honestly I want to apologize for the bold statement I made about Trevor Reckling. I get excited when it comes to the up and coming players in MLB and MILB. I obviously know of all of Baseball’s best prospects and I shouldn’t have jumped on the Trevor Reckling train before I thought about Bum, Hellickson, Drabek, and Kelly. Sorry guys…
If you take Jason Bay out of the equation…The Mets have had the worst off season out of all thirty teams. They needes starting pitching more than a bat like Bay and i’m not criticizing Bay but Piniero + another starter and a catcher were bigger neccessities. The Mets have to work out a trade to get the starter that they need. These two days could jepordize Omar Minaya’s job. Molina and Piniero were their targets and they missed out…Should we expect Jon Garland to throw 225 innings for the Mets with a 4.50 ERA and what about Jarrod Washburn and that knee of his? The Mets missed out. On the other hand…What a great signing for the Angels…That AL West could be the toughest division in Baseball. Especially for the Teams that play in it. The A’s have one of the best bullpens in Baseball to go along with a young talented rotation. The M’s have had a spectacular off-season that could translate into a division title. The Rangers look great with that young rotation, solid defense, and pretty good offense. That division is so exciting!
We will see what happens with the Mets but bottom line…They just let to good opportunities pass by. Their best bet is the trade market and if they think that a team will pick up Castillo’s contract or their “fantastic minor league system” (yeah right) they should think again. We will see what happens.
Sheets, Wang, Garland.
Never liked Piniero an I’ll snap if we sign Smoltz…
Smoltz out of the bullpen for 7th or 8th … he’s the smartest free agent out there and the mets’ pitching staff needs some wise old veteran leadership.
Sheets, Smoltz, Delgado (for cheap w/ incentives), and i’d even pick up nomar to play the role julio franco did in ’06
“If you take Jason Bay out of the equation…The Mets have had the worst off season out of all thirty teams.”
What?! So, if you take out Texiera, Sabathia, and Burnett out of the equation last year, does that mean the Yankees had the worst off season last year?? That type of logic doesn’t make any sense.
And NO Mets fan that knows the game of baseball wanted Pineiro or Molina. We have 4 backups catchers already – no need for a 5th. We also have plenty of questionable pitchers already, no need for another – especially at a price that would be worth to take a risk on Sheets or Wang at.
Way to go Omar, now who the f00k are you going to sign?
Sorry to see him go to a team thats going to finish dead last place in the West and struggle to win 70 games this year
Looks like Sheets might get his 10M after all.
Yeah, this does seem like a possibility… This would null the Cards in the Sheets bidding then too. As a Cards fan, I would much rather have Penny at 1M less as a guy who’s had a decent success in the past–hooked up with one of the best pitching coaches of all time (Duncan) – over Pieneiro, who’s had more bad years than good. I wish all the best to Pineiro, but I don’t think he’s worth it.
This almost forces the mets to get sheets
hahaha… the Mets can’t win for losing.
What?
Have you never heard the phrase “can’t win for losing”?
Wow, on Monday both Molina and Pineiro were joining the Mets and now there both going to diff. teams. How about Sheets and Garland for the Mets
maybe sheets. i see garland as a nat.
hopefully garland or sheets becomes a dodger! but i doubt it… and i think the pineiro sign was a good one by the angels
won’t happen. they have padilla now and young guys like mcdonald to compete for the 5th spot.
yea i hear ya. but mcdonald was frustrating to watch last year, walks way too many. i think they should take a chance on someone, and not settle for guys like padilla and ortiz…
Not 100% official so I’m not going to start celebrating quite yet but this would be amazing if the Mets could avoid signing both Molina and Pineiro, two bad baseball players that are not the missing pieces the Mets need to win a championship, to contracts they don’t deserve. If this goes down the Mets offseason automatically becomes at least a 7 out of 10 by default because they will have managed to not make any obviously bad signings.
Oh yeah, because signing NO ONE is so much better than signing Pineiro.
Omar blew it, BIG TIME.
Pineiro was decent, and it is NOT a good thing we didn’t sign him in any way, shape, or form.
They didn’t “sign no one” because the offseason isn’t over yet. If they miss out on Sheets then I will agree with you.
Fantastic. I’m so glad that we passed on trading for Lee, Halladay, Lowe, Vasquez, etc or paying for Lackey or even Garland or Sheets in order to get Piniero, who has had one good year for a weak NL Central team.
First Rodney and now this. Unless it is a one year deal for $5 million, I just don’t get it.
Since when are the cardinals a weak team?????
what in the world is Reaggins doing? Unless this is for one year and $5 million, we just made a horrible move.
please say this is false.
Angels are stupid to sign one of the ultimate NL pitchers
I know. I can’t believe we did this. We pass on so many, in order to get Piniero…Piniero!!!
I hate my life.
PS: Sheets has a big smile right now
So do most of the AL hitters..
holy crap. i can’t stop laughing at this…
That’s a good one.
Dodgers failing offseason continues.
the depth would be nice…as it’s probably needed…but pineiro and braden looper are essentially the same guy…in the american league w/out duncan i would project a 4.25 ERA/1.35 WHIP for him in 2010…i feel like james mcdonald will give that kind of output next season if given the opportunity…as kershaw and billingsley go…so will the dodgers…it’s that simple…regardless of who they signed this year…and it was pretty slim as far as pitching goes.
I disagree. The Angels gave a guy who had a career yr after 5 average yrs 2 years guarranteed. There are enough other options instead of giving Joel 18m
True. I was pissed when I saw this post and not because he didn’t sign with the Dodgers. It’s that he picked the Angels over the Dodgers. Piniero will suck in the AL. It was a two horse race and they were both NL teams, which makes sense. The AL will tear him up. Once Ben Sheets comes around and realize 12 mil with a player option and loads of incentives is way too much for a guy that hasn’t pitched in a year, I can see him coming to Los Angeles. Not Anaheim, LOS ANGELES. Colletti is probably calling up Vicente Padilla’s agent at this moment with a contract offer.
I sincerely hope you’re right about that last bit — I’ve been hoping Padilla stays with the Dodgers, and I was honestly a little amazed when it seemed like they were more interested in landing Pineiro…
Personally, I have never been that in tuned with the LA vs LA rivalry. We play different divisions and only play 2 series a yr. We both have young talent and some of it(from both teams) have blossomed into superstars. I was slightly disappointed that he didnt sign with us, but I dont mind NOT having Pinerio on the books for 2/18..
And I really hope its Sheets well before Padilla…
I agree. Kendry Morales turned into a home run machine this year out of virtually nowhere. Ethier and Kemp had breakout years, and I think this year it’s Kershaw’s turn to open eyes. Sheets would be nice but you know the Dodgers would go with Padilla for the low-risk bargain over the high-risk $10 million a year Sheets. I wouldn’t mind Padilla at all but I would like Sheets.
I just fear that Padilla goes back to the crap he was before he got to LA. It seems the Dodgers feel the same way, as they arent giving into demands. Giving Padilla 5M, or more, to be guaranteed the #4 slot in the rotation is a risk.
Like I said, I’d prefer Sheets to Padilla, by a long shot, and will be a little scared having Padilla be our 4th starter.
Agree on the “rivalry”. With 6 games through out of the season, if we played in the same league then THAT would be a rivalry. I like the young guys the dodgers have ( and now through arb, for a couple years). I usually tend to root for them in the playoffs. Mostly whats bothersome is arrogant-loud-mouthed fans, that aren’t fans of baseball just their city
Angels fans would like you to think there’s a rivalry, but there really isn’t. Angels are the red-headed stepchild of LA, ownership problems or not.
Except for the fact that the ANGELS have won a title in the last 20 YEARS!!!!
That 1 title really makes up for the 5 more that the Dodgers have than the Angels, or the 3 more titles since the Angels have been in the MLB. Sure does.
I’m not a fan of either LA team, but what have the dodgers done in the past 20 years!!! That is all that matters. I don’t see Kirk Gibson and Orel Hershiser or Don Drysdale and Sandy Koufax walking onto the field anytime soon. I am a Twins fan, I don’t go bragging about the world series titles that they won in 1987 and 1991, because those 2 championships mean nothing RIGHT NOW. The Dodgers shouldn’t be satisfied with what they have done in the PAST. That is why I thought it was funny that you were talking trash about the Angels who have won something in the last 20 years
I think it pissed Dodger fans off a little when the Angels called themselves ‘The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim”. It would have been like the Dodgers calling themselves “The Orange County Dodgers of Los Angeles”, when the Angels were in Anaheim for years. Personally, I dont care, but that is where some Dodger fans get the hate.However, I do think there is no rivalry on the field, simply off the field.
Ya, Arte simply wanted to broaden the teams marketablilty, hell I bet just as many Angel fans hate the LA part of the name. THe city name of “Anahiem” had to be left in cuz of legal issues when Arte bought the team from disney.
vtadave, the only ‘red’ on the Angels is on their uni’s 😉
gee, i thought it was pink
I dont get it, is this supposed to be an insult??
Not many Dodger fans wanted Pineiro…so ok. I don’t think it would be much of a “fail” to have Mcdonald or Elbert starting for the Dodgers in 2010, or both. I’m sure a bunch of teams would love to have either one of them at the back of their rotation.
This is great news for my Mets who were interested in him, he is a bum who had one good year, look at his career, he will get smashed without Dave Duncan.
twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/8008756702
Angels reach agreement with Pinerio 2 years $16 million. Same offer as Mets
win win for the mets .. 1. hes NOT a met and 2. hes not going to face the mets …. its a beautiful thing.
If you don’t want him to face the Mets then you are implying that he’s really good. And if so then why don’t you want him to be a Met?
Not sure, but I think what he meant was that the Mets (somewhat like the Giants last season) have a tendency to make opposing crappy pitchers look like HOF’ers. He is relieved that Pineiro will not be one of them.
I wonder how the Angels do this year. Last year they lost K-Rod and Texiera and STILL made it to the playoffs. If Brandon Wood can produce like he can, they will have a season similar to last years.
I disagree. I think the Angels will miss the playoffs this year. They lost K-Rod and Teixeira last year but gained Brian Fuentes and Kendry Morales. They have no third baseman, a lack of an ace, etc. I think they might even finish 3rd. Seattle has had the best offseason of anyone: Chone Figgins, Cliff Lee, Milton Bradley, re-signed Griffey and Guttierez. I think the Mariners will be the AL West kings, Twins central, Yanks east, and BoSox wild card.
Go back in time one year.
Read the panic that was Angels baseball. They lost out on the two biggest FA’s (Tex and Sabathia) and lost their ace closer in K-Rod. Morales wasn’t projected by the mainstream to be anything decent. Then the Angels dealt with the death of their top pitching prospect, injuries to Lackey, Santana, and Saunders. Positional players dropped like flies. Yet, when the dust settles there are the Angels – the 2nd best team in baseball.
Wood is a wildcard. He certainly has better credentials than Kendry Morales ever had. If Wood puts up a 250/320/450 line he will be just fine. Pineiro is being asked to anchor the back-end of the rotation. Expecting an ERA in the mid to high 4’s is hardly a stretch. Continued maturation by all their young guys and the Angels could be just fine.
Seattle has had a very active off-season. Whether it was “best” or not we will see.
Please stop with the homer mentality, who has had a better off season then the M’s plus they still have money to spend Pinero please, at least Safeco should hold some of his pitches.
Homer mentality? What fan of any team wouldn’t be atleast a little bias? No one can argue the good OFF season Seattle has had, just that you should wait till at least all star break to see how the M’s season ( and the Angels and the Rangers) has played out til that point.
You have a point. Mike Scoischa took that team from its grief to an AL runner-up team. When I heard the Adenhart news I thought it was all over for the Angels.
So because they (seattle) had the best off season they win the division? Cmon guy, your kidding yourself. Let them play 162 then see how well your “on paper, Seattle is ALW kings” plays out.
They have improved a ton. The Angels have gotten worse and the Mariners have gotten better. And of course you think I’m kidding myself! Look at your username!
Lol ya so what about it? Am I supposed to be in dismay and think the way you do? Pfft look at your name, its obvious you just don’t like the Angels, but hey maybe you’ll have fun hating on us in the playoff while the dodgers lose the NL west
K-Rod + Tex > Fuentes + Morales…. i think at least. and considering we had no idea what morales was going to do, we cant just ride off Wood at this point.. tht comment is to the guy below sry
The Angels didn’t JUST make the playoffs. They were the second best team in baseball and lost in the ALCS because of two extra inning fielding mistakes. This isnt a bad deal if its 2 years @8 a year for a solid #5. Now our depth is Reckling Bell and Palmer. This allows our young arms to develop a little longer and step in when someone gets hurt. By the time this deal expires one of those names will have stepped up. T
Agreed, everyone is so quick to consider Seattle AL West champs, but don’t give the Angels a shot because the lost some starters to FA. Seattle was 1 of the worst teams in run production and LOST Russel the muscle and Beltre their 2 power threats, now if Bradley does well who else has a legit power threat? Maybe Griffey can, idk.
I think Texas will be a bigger threat to the Angels, not seattle
Beltre was non-productive to their 85 win season, Bradley should easily replace that.
Question for marinar fans: would it make more sense to bat ichiro 2nd and figgins 1st. That way ichiro’s monster avg with RISP is more utilized and the M’s can get more run production.
the only consolation is that palmer can now go back to the bullpen where he pitched so much better than he did as a starter
“If true, the Halos are getting a steal by landing him for only $1MM more than the Nationals paid for Jason Marquis.”Yea, maybe if you live in a bubble where only his 2009 contract year season matters and he wasn’t a terrible pitcher for 5 years straight beforehand.
Agreed, not too sure about this 2 year stuff >.>
Hopefully Duncan’s magic will be with Pineiro this season
When Randy Wolf get’s 3/30 then 2/16 is a steal for Pineiro
So out of no where he gained talent because he was in a contract year? I’ve never understood why people say this. I can’t imagine walking out to the mound and thinking about the contract I’m going to sign in 6 months. I think the players and their pitching coaches deserve the credit.
Because it happens all the time. It would be nice if every player cared about nothing but winning 100% of the time and always went out and gave 110% every single day but the reality is that they don’t. And lol at “gaining talent”. I guess when a pitcher has a bad year coming off several consecutive good years it’s simply because he “lost talent”.
Have you ever heard of having a bad game……It is not that they don’t try, they are too competitive to just throw games and stats away. They wouldn’t be in the pros if they didn’t care
Yeah, I’m not much of a Pineiro fan either, but he’s a whole heckuva lot better than Matt Palmer.
man the mets are definitely feeling the burn of the lack of free agents signing with em….maybe they’ll get orlando hudson?
oh well idk why the praise Pineiro so much he dint prove anything during the playoffs
Watch Mariners counter with Ben Sheets ( I heard they still have $10 million to play with)
LOL! If Seattle did that, then LAA and M’s would have their own NY/BOS contract rivalry, but with only half the money.
Except the Mariners would STILL be under $100MM Annual salary, even if they get Sheets. 😉
Mariners are going to be the first team to go 0-162, losing every game 1-0. They have good front end pitching but a team that was the second worst hitting team in baseball lost their biggest run producer. That does not equate.
Yeah, the Mariners are suffering the same problem that the Giants will-their superb pitching will be underminded by their horrid offense.
Now, for all we know, Bradley rebounds and has a decent year. But, even with that, I don’t know if that is enough for them. Then again, they apparently have one or two promising hitting prospects. Maybe they show up and produce.
I didnt know they had anymore “promising” prospects, let alone any that might be ML ready. I thought they traded most of their top ones this off season already..
Well, they did keep Saunders (unless he was involved in any of their trades, I could be mistaken), and he is pretty close to ready. He seems to have a good bat with some speed along with it.
He’s probably not enough, though. I know that Branyan isn’t an amazing hitter, but they probably could use him again.
Yes but I don’t see where they can possibly play Brenyen, Griffey is their DH and w/kocthman on 1st I just cant see where they’d fit him in, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see brenyen not re sign
They certainly do…I’m really excited to see what they do with that money. Possibly save up for a Cliff Lee extension?
Furthering the disconnect between the Mets organization and its fan base, GM Omar Minaya sits alone in his office tonight with a half-empty bottle of whiskey, an empty shot glass, a tear running down his cheek, and an autographed 8″ x 10″ that reads…
“O, Thanks for dinner last night. Maybe I’ll see you in Feb! –Joel Pineiro <3"
I’d be willing to be the Mets make a pretty hard push at Sheets now. Might I dare even use the dreaded “over paid” label? I figured this guy was a lock for Citi Field. Hope the Cubbies open up those deep wallets to get Sheets. I watched video of his workout yesterday, he looked pretty dang impressive. Harold Reynolds had a nice piece on it as well. My prediction, Ben Sheets come back player of the year. I’ll bet he is a Met or a Cub by the end of next week.
The Cubs’ “deep wallets” have pushed them to remain frugal and dump salaries this off-season. Marlon Byrd was their lone “big” acquisition. There’s not as much money to spread around on the North Side as many would think.
EDIT: I completely forgot about John Grabow. Perhaps part of me intentionally forgot. I wish I hadn’t remembered that two-year regret waiting to happen.
Where did you watch the workout?
the only thing good about the mets FO being a farce is that no real good free-agents have spurned them…the mets will probably sign Sheets for 12 mil now. They HAVE to over-pay for Sheets at this point….either that or look at the trade market…( arroyo/harang)
Oh man, what a crappy deal! This guy is just another Dave Duncan NL special. He stunk it up in the AL to the point where the RED SOX simply released him…FROM THEIR BULLPEN! I remember watching this guy get hammered everythime he came into a game.
Too funny…Is there another team in baseball beside the Angels who seem like they’re trying to purposely get worse?
The RedSox release a lot of guys who go on to have decent to successful careers elsewhere. Doesn’t surprise me that Piniero found success outside of Fenway.
This makes me skeptical of Boston’s coaching staff. How come they couldn’t pick up that Smoltz was tipping pitches for most of the season? The Cards staff (Chris Carpenter really) picked it up during the first bullpen session. Smoltz says he made a mechanical adjustment between his time with the BoSox and Cards. Why wasn’t he allowed to make that adjustment in Boston? He proved he still had value in his starts with the Birds.
And Lugo, while not the starter the Sauks paid him to be, still has value off the bench. The fact that Boston paid for him to leave seems like a failed evaluation of talent. For the production he’s giving the Cards they could have gotten at least a prospect for him from some other team.
There are a few other examples, but obviously I’m more familiar with the Cards. And of course it’s not like Boston is the only club to not assess talent correctly. Just pick your favorite Rule 5 success story (Uggla, Santana, etc…)
How is this a steal in any shape or form?
I really wished he would of signed with a AL East club so the Yanks can clobber him day in and day out. Going to the Angels will have to do. LOL. Wow, did that team take 3 steps backwards this offseason.
I certainly agree. You base the market off of the top players and Marquis and Piniero were hardly the best. The Natinals have to pay a premium for any free agent. The Angels, on the other hand, play in Southern California and have an outstanding track record. The Nationals were forced to overpay for Marquis while the Angels chose to overpay.
You’re not going to replace Lackey, but Piniero will prove to be a quality signing if he’s given the right situation. He’s got an amazing sinker if he can keep his stuff down, he’s brutally frustrating. When Prince Fielder type guys can’t get the ball in the air and go 0-4 with 4 groundouts, you’ll like him just fine. He’s got little room for error because his velocity isn’t really impressive, but when pitching down in the zone he’s got great movement. Piniero has found his successful style, he’s just got to be consistent. He’s a professional ballplayer, you’ve got to believe he’ll do his best to do just that. A pitching coach who encourages a similar philosophy doesn’t hurt either.
Angels have a good defense. makes sense for Joel. Mets need a power arm especially with Beltran hurt and Castillo at 2B
or he could be a Ranger
I guess this is how the Mariners will improve their offense.
I couldn’t stop laughing!
too clever lol
at this point, I would trade Castillo for Arroyo straight up…then sign Hudson
Opening Day Lineup
Reyes
Murphy
Wright
Bay
Pagan
Francour
Hudson
Santos/Blanco
If Beltran comes back
Reyes
Hudson
Beltran
Bay
Wright
Francour
Murphy
Santos/Blanco
not perfect but u can do damage…
i cant front…having a healthy slugging Delgado TOTALLY changes the complexion of that lineup
Reyes
Hudson
Beltran
Bay
Delgado
Wright
Francour
Santos/Blanco
Definitely not a Met’s fan, but that’s a strong 1-6. Switch Wright and Delgado.
These were good rejections. We need a power arm especially with Beltran hurt and Castillo at 2B
This is really all the angels needed, someone decent to fill the 5th starter role. This team is still so much deeper than any other team in their division.
If Piniero is #5… that’s one hell of a rotation. The guy, when on, is good enough to be #2 on many teams and #3 on most. Just make sure he keeps pounding the bottom of the zone and gets good action on that sinker. He’s definitely a Dave Duncan success story (and in his contract year of course)…
This is a steal if Piniero stays within himself and doesn’t try to do too much. He doesn’t have the stuff to miss location and get away with it. Finesse pitchers have so little margin for error. I can see why people think he’s overpriced, but then you watch hitter after hitter pound the ball in the dirt. Groundball after groundball. Cleanup batters hitting futile nubbers back to the pitcher or routine grounders to the middle infielders. Some find holes, most don’t. His k/9 isn’t sexy, but his consistency is impressive.
We’ll see what it is like for him to be on now that he’s back in the AL. He could be good, or he could be batting practice…especially without Dave Duncan to straighten him out.
Isn’t that true with most pitchers though? Next year is always a new year. Could be great, could be horrible. Sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worst. Ask Mark Mulder (flopped). Ask 2008 Cliff Lee (blossomed).
Absolutely. But he’s going to have to prove it before he gets the benefit of the doubt. He’s been nothing short of awful everywhere he’s been, except for the Cards where he had the benefit of pitching to the lesser hitting league and the premier pitching coach in baseball. I’m just skeptical he can recreate the success he had last year.
A valid point. I’d like to think he had a chip on his shoulder after the World Baseball Classic and he matured.
He’s got an uphill battle though. Jeff Suppan and Woody Williams didn’t do so well after they left Dave Duncan. Jason Marquis has struggled and re-invented himself, although he was always a bit too headstrong for Duncan I think, which is why I favored him to go to the Mets. Something about a NY frame of mind.
Not a fan of this, but it gives us some pitching depth when Kazmir and Ervin go down.
Can’t forget about Saunders
So who do the Mets turn to now, it appears that they’ll go hard after Sheets, but they won’t be alone in the Sheets race. The Mets have a good line up, but no pitching to back it up.
Cant say i like the 2 yrs to this deal. Im really hoping with money saved this season we can get Brandon Webb next year via free agency. Now with this signing we’d need to trade a SP next offseason which is def. possible to land Webb. The Angels payroll for 2010 if trading Gary Matthews would be about $110 mil, and thats big money saved we can also make a run for Carl Crawford. Fu$% the hype that the Yanks r getting him, Crawford doestn want to go to the yanks.
the Angels payroll will not be down next year, especially after signing Piniero and their arbitration players. Why would anyone be interested in Matthews when Damon is still out there unsigned. Next year, weaver is due a big raise as is Joe Saunders. Because the Angels are such a good team, they need to spend a lot in arbitration each year and don’t have a ton of money left to sign someone when it is done. The Angels will be lucky to get a pack of baseball card back from another team if the Angels pick up his entire contract. He has no value.
Has he said that?
If he has, I can recall a certain Johnny Damon saying something even more intense than that at one point in the past.
No, Crawford has never been quoted as saying he won’t go to the Yankees. He surely would for a 7/120 deal.
Eek, 7 years. I don’t know if Cash will be willing to do that, but if they want him that badly, then eh.
Scott – How would the Angels trade Matthews and get some team to pay his entire contract?
Met’s will sign Garland now?
I think he is most likely to go to WASH, and Sheets will sign in TX.
Mets get the short end of the stick here.
I kind like the idea of the O’s getting Garland.
What’s up with all of the Joel hate? The guy was a stud for my Cards last year. Wish the Cards would have dished out a few million more and signed Joel instead of Penny.
We shall see. I think Ricketts is just playing his cards right now. I’d be willing to bet the Cubs could take on 10-15MM more… emphasis on could. I’m just not buying the pay roll limitations and then signing guys to like Byrd and Grabow to two year deals. 8.5 MM between the two for 2010. I think the Cubs can guarantee Sheets at least 8 and then sign one of Nady, Dye, Johnson, or Baldelli (just guys they have been linked to) to around 3-5MM
If the choice is 2/16 for Pineiro or 1/10 + Incentives + a player option for Sheets then this makes the most sense by far.
Not a huge fan of how the money was spent this off-season. I would have stayed away from fringe type contributors (Rodney/Pineiro) as well as Abreu and focused instead on bringing in Holliday. We’ll see though. Pineiro and Rodney certainly add quite a bit of depth. And having Pineiro as a 5th starter isn’t the worst option out there.
one of the most rational thoughts i’ve read on arte’s angels.
despite being an A’s fan, i’ve always been intrigued by the angels and jealous of the depth and quality of the prospects they had bubbling up.
was even more jealous of the bucks they had to go with the young talent. but that’s where they have gone wrong. they suck at spending those big bucks.
It remains to be seen if he can pitch without Dave Duncan as his pitching coach. He’s a question mark, as he had a career year in a walk year-something people should always be skeptical of, especially when the year he had last year was basically his first good year since 2003.
Welcome back to the AL West, Jo-EL. Prepare to get HAMMERED!
Quick side note: As a long time Mariner fan, it is common knowledge that Joel has one of the hottest wifes in pro sports. Maybe we’ll be lucky enough up here in Seattle to see her at a few home Mariner games again.
Lol guess that’s a plus for signing him XD
Pinero doesnt belong in the A.L.
Man my Mets can’t even sign medicore pitchers. Whatever. I’m so tired of following the hot stove, so tired
My guess an ERA over 4.50
I don’t believe moving from NL to AL will expose him to better hitting, but in case it does, he has Oakland and Seattle in his division.
JASON MARQUIS wanted to be a Met he said he would be a great perfect fit and he would have….. now what do we do?
Sign sheets at an overpriced contract because he knows were desperate?
Sign 43 year old John Smoltz?
Pray to god Jon Niese has recovered fully?
Trade for Bronson A with the Reds?
I would get Bronson hopefully for something but not waste crap for smoltz
For the Mets needs they better pay up and pray for Sheets stays healthy. Otherwise they could salary dump midseason and quickly rebuild, although Omar might be out of a job if they go that route. Obviously keep Santana and Wright and the young guys they got coming up. The Mets have a good core, but they’ve got some expendable parts they can get good value for. Just be smart in whichever decision they take. For example, don’t let Billy Wagner go for a AAAA player and a couple million bucks, get a 1st rounder for him.
Well now I just read on mets.com that they are content with santos as their starter. What are they thinking. Omir Santos is a third string back up if even that. The Mets are so cheap and when they decide to use their money they consistently over pay. Omar should be fired tomorrow considering this offseason and then fire the whole medical staff. Bring in Sheets and make sure he is healthy and bring in Garland. Maybe he can pitch in a pitchers ball park. Then get Rod Barajas and call it an offseason and maybe we could win the wildcard.
Once again thank god. Omar may have wanted Molina and Pineiro, but smart Met fans know that signing them would have led to trouble. I’ll take some sheets please.
No matter what Angels fans say, this has been a terrible offseason for them. Lost out on Figgins and Lackey (both of whom they wanted), didn’t make enough of a run at Halladay or Holliday or Bay. Signed Pineiro and Matsui. I don’t think the AL West can be conceded to the M’s, but it will be a tight 3 way race (with Oakland slowly getting better as well).
Rickysoftball, FFS, if you don’t have anything to add to the conversation, then please don’t post anything at all. Copy and pasting the same msg and using it to reply 5-6 times in the same thread is annoying and makes you look like a schmuck.
Thanks.
My aplogies
It’s hard to say whether or not Pineiro’s 2009 season would be repeatable. He was successful because he had groundball percentages and low walk rates that were completely off the charts to anything he had previously done in his career. It’s like a completely different pitcher inhabited his body in 2009.
Well…Piniero in the AL + not with Dave Duncan means he will be trash.
Harang and Sheets are both a must now.
While i’m not excited about this, it does give a very strong 1-5 SP rotation. Plenty to win the division, but it won’t do much good in the playoffs against other team’s #1s.
The best part of this is it allows them to trade away one of Saunders/Weaver/Santanta or a high end pitching prospect in a package for a #1 SP at mid-season (assuming one is available of course…).
Between last year’s draft picks and the 5 they have in the top 37 this year, they should have plenty of talent up and coming over the next few years to replace some of these guys when they leave.
This may be the year they sag a little, though. It remains to be seen, with all the losses they sustained. They are going to need Santana and Saunders to remain healthy all year and produce in order to compete.
But, your last line is spot on. They may have to miss a year of the playoffs, but even if that happens the future, as always, looks bright.
As a Cardinals fan, having a guy as dependable as Joel is something that is often over looked while you have him, and i believe that cardinals fans will miss Joel once the grind of the season hits because of his dependability. He can pitch no question, you just need a good defense behind him that could field ground ball after ground ball because he gets a ton of them.
He walked just 27 batters in 214 innings and posted a 60.5 percent groundball rate due to a newfound sinker.
yeah i heard he throws like a new sinker with one finger and it really worked for him. i heard Carpenter and Wainwright talking about how they used it sumtimes even. maybe he can share that info with a young sinker ball pitcher in joe saunders
Those numbers are a bright spot in the clouds of “he’s been awful 2 years ago,” very bright spot I believe
Angels are paying the same EXACT $8M salary for Piniero, as Seattle is paying for Cliff Lee. Wow!
What’s even more awesome? Their top priority was Lackey, with a fallback plan on trading an awesome package that included Aybar to the Blue Jays for Halladay. All within 2 hours, after Lackey signed with BoSox the public heard that Halladay was going to the Philly’s w/Lee going to the M’s. That alone was a triple dager to their heart: Losing Lackey 1st, then losing out on Halladay, and then of course Seattle landing Cliff Lee.
And now to see the Angels paying $8M for Piniero while Seattle pays the same to Cliff Lee … has got to cut to the heart of Angel fans.
AMAZING JOB Z MAN!
It’s amazing how cheap you can get a player that definately won’t be signing with the ball club in the near future via trade. Pinero is fa Lee was traded- you can’t compare the two salaries.
As an angel fan I have some concerns, namley that pinero will be pitching to contact with a very young infield behind him. But on the other hand, the angels needed to find a quality starter middle rotation worthy inning eater to round out their already impressive young staff. And a two year deal is perfect timing for reckling to come up when he will be officially ready for the show. And some people are complaining on here that he won’t replace lackey.. Lackey has only won more the 15 games once in his career and started that last two seasons on the dl, not to mention is a natorious hot head on the mound. When you compare the two players by the end of the year and put into account how much they signed for- pinero will be the better buy.
You do realize that Piniero has only had 1 year since 2004 with an ERA under 4.33 (thats 1 year in the past 6 years), and only 1 year with a double digit Win? Yes that was ONLY in 2009, and in a VERY WEAK NL Central division!!!
NO WAY would the Z Man pay $8M/year for 2 years on Piniero!
In the AL for BoSox he couldn’t even make in the the BoSox bullpen, let alone a SP, and let alone didn’t even qualify to clean Otriz’s jockstrap.
Welcome back to the AL Joel!
Hey at least the Angels resigned Vlad and his 1.234 OPS against Pineiro! Oh wait Vlad is over at Texas now in that sandbox, so I wonder how high his OPS can go against Piniero this year.
Go checkout Jack Wilson’s (Seattle SS) OPS against Piniero…it’s even more than Vlad’s sitting at 1.250 OPS. And that’s included Piniero’s 2009 totals too. Just AWESOME!
You should check out Wilson’s OPS against every other pitcher in baseball. Enjoy having one of the WORST hitting SS’s in the game. The Pirates couldn’t give the guy away.
Seriously, you need to take a quick class on sample sizes. Do you really think that you can draw meaningful information from the handful of AB’s Vlad has had against Pineiro?
Have u seen vlad play recently? His knees make matsui look like usain bolt. Not to mention matsui can still swing a bat! Vlad almost never made solid contact in the playoffs and it’s obvious that vlad has been having to cheat on fastballs all last year because he uses his legs on his very long swing and has expanded his strike zone beyond repair.
Vlad will put up decent numbers in a deep Texas lineup that spends half it’s games in a hitter friendly ball park, but there is no club that would rather have vlad over matsui at this point in their careers. Especially when u consider the amount of money matsui will bring to Anaheim which basically will pay for his contract alone.
So the Angels replaced Lackey with Piniero… The Angels fans should be ecstatic about this move…
I would say Kazmir trade was to replace Lackey. Pinerio just there to be the 5th starter.
If you think Kazmir is going to replace Lackey, you might want to consider selling your house before the housing market collapses, because you’re living in 2007.
Kazmir’s a serious reclamation project; he’s not the same pitcher he was three years ago. His K/9 has dropped by 30%, while his BB/9 has stayed at the same level (not a good combo). Dude’s not a #1, and isn’t a #2, and I don’t think it’s safe to assume he ever will be again (pitchers do just fall off sometimes… see, Steve Avery, and a host of other young pitchers whose success faded before they turned 30); he’s not even close to replacing Lackey.
Hmmm …2008 – 152 IP / 3.49 ERA / 9.8 K9Starts off 2009 on the DL. When he comes back he is obviously still not right. Misses more time in June. Comes back in July. From July 18th through the rest of the season he puts up a:85 IP / 3.27 ERA / 8 K9 – basically in line with his career norms prior to the injury.So, you can choose to believe that his time immediately prior to hitting the DL and right after coming off the DL is the real Kazmir OR you can go with his last 15 starts and his career numbers outside of his time when he was obviously not right physically.Me – I’ll choose something in the middle. I don’t think that Kazmir will ever be an ace. I do think he can go between 150 – 170 innings with an ERA in the 3.75 range. If he can do that then he absolutely replaces Lackey of 2008 and 2009. And those Angel teams managed to win 100 and 96 games respectively.
How many times does this need to be said … even the Yankees get it.
Pavano for 1 year and $7 mil looks a lot better than this deal.
How?
Pavano posted an ERA above 5 in the AL Central. Pineiro posted an ERA in the mid 3’s. Pineiro has a history of poor performance. Pavano has a history of not playing.
I would take Pineiro ANY DAY over Pavano.
I wouldn’t say “a lot better.” I’d say the two deals look pretty even.
Purely on skills, the two are fairly comparable. Pineiro’s unlikely to repeat that low walk rate (simply because it’s nearly impossible to walk 1.1 BB/9 for an entire season, let alone do it two seasons in a row); assuming his BB/9 returns to his career range of about 2.0-2.5, Pineiro’s a pretty average pitcher (in terms of K/BB), with a great groundball rate (assuming his sinker is as effective this year, in Anaheim, as it was last year, in St. Louis). Pavano strikes more guys out, and doesn’t walk many more guys, but he’s much less of a groundball pitcher, which makes him more susceptible to the big inning.
Purely in terms of run-prevention ability, I’d say Pineiro and Pavano are fairly even, with Pineiro getting a slight edge if he can maintain a 55-60% GB rate.
As far as health, I’d take Pineiro; but, in terms of contract length, you have to like the Pavano deal (although the Angels certainly didn’t assume a lot of risk in inking a two-year deal). I’d say they’re pretty even deals.
I smell Pedro to the Mets – Minaya can’t resist broken down aging pitchers
I was a little upset when I first heard the news of the Angels signing Pinero, but after a little research and soul searching I’ve come to the conclusion that this is a solid sign. It has to be for two years not one. The reasoning behind that deal is if Joel has an amazing year in 2010 and was under a one year deal, he may go someone else or receive more then 8 mil a year. Also signing a two year deal will take pressure off the kid having to perform for a new team. Since he learned and started using his sinker, Pinero has been stellar. If he can match his stats from 09, great sign. If he can get close to that level, still, good sign. The Angels believe in pitching depth and with Joel arriving in SoCal, they now have it. Reckling isn’t ready. We’ll just have to sit back and see how this all plays out, but trust your Angels my friends.
Agreed, bjh
Well, you’ll probably get one good year out of him, his contract year. At least that was the case with the Cardinals.
I’m shocked the Mets didn’t sign him, the way he pitched against them. (Then again, that just seems to be the Cardinals plan of acquiring bad pitchers)
I honestly dont see Pinero having much success with the Angels and he def does not replace lackey! But thank goodness lackey is out of the Al West lol