THURSDAY, 8:06am: MLB.com's Corey Brock has a source saying a Dye deal is "low on likelihood" for the Padres. More likely would be Randy Winn or Jerry Hairston Jr., to whom the Padres have made offers. Another mild possibility for Dye is the Cubs. The Chicago Tribune's Paul Sullivan says they're looking at him for a platoon/backup/DH role.
WEDNESDAY, 11:02am: The Padres are showing interest in free agent outfielder Jermaine Dye, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. However, Morosi believes the Padres would have to trade a veteran to be able to afford him. He names Heath Bell and Kevin Kouzmanoff as trade candidates.
Dye isn't a great fit for a National League club, given his outfield defense. And he's not the type of free agent you make other moves to accomodate. Given the limited interest, I can't see him getting much more than $3MM.
What? Huh? I can’t even comprehend the Padres trading an assett (Heath Bell) for someone like Dye, who at best, is a complementary player at this stage of his career.
Dye is a FA.
he meant trading one of there high paid players to be able to afford dye like the article says
It’s been reported before that the Pads have 7-8 mill to spend. Why would they have to trade anyone to afford a 3mill player?
i saw that too, i have no idea. maybe to free up as much money as possible to try and retain a-gon or create more leverage in a trade by being able to afford him.
and if im not mistaken dont they have an arbitration hearing with bell whos price is sure to increase
I was just going by what Morosi allegedly wrote. If they have to move Bell or Koz to afford Dye then that would be a mistake.
He could play first base if they decide to move Adrian Gonzalez before spring training
NO, Blanks would be their 1st baseman if they traded Adrian, period.
Sounds reasonable…I just have a hard time believing they think Dye can play the OF in Petco. Thanks for the clarification.
I agree, I wrote my thoughts below.
They would look terrible if they traded Bell just to afford Dye, who is an atrocious fielder. What an awful move that would be.
The Padre are talking about moving Bell regardless of if they sign Dye or not. Also its not the Padres that are saying that they would need to move Bell to sign Dye its the author of the article speculating what they would have to do to be able to afford him.
It would be a good move for the Padres if they could sign him for one year at $3M and they were able to move Kouz. Dye would help take some of the pressure off of Venable, and Blanks in their Soph season and is a good alternative to Gwynn against lefties.
They should just sign Reed Johnson who can actually play the field and hit vs lefties. Blanks deserves a starting job, but he could start ahead of Venable or Gwynn, or platoon at least.
It’s pitiful they’d have to trade someone to bring in a free agent when their payroll is already miniscule. But if they were to trade someone, I think it should be Kouz. He might not be a bad player, just needs a change of scenery, and they need Headley on 3B.
Dye in LF and Ellsbury in CF would have been way better offensively and would have cost much more less than the Cameron-Ellsbury Combo and less comittment than the 2 years to Cameron, how many times will be said that Cameron was OVERPAID. This thread makes anybody who isnt familiar with Jermaine Dye’s numbers think he is at the end of his rope, he is no all-star but has had pretty respectable numbers the last couple of years, in my opinion he is a bargain at 3 MM. THEO=OVERRATED
it also would have been much worse defensively. cameron’s offense > dye’s defense. i definitely see your point, but the sox clearly wanted to concentrate on defense and dye doesn’t fit that mold.
Dye in Fenway’s LF would have been fine, it’s so small. If Manny could play it, Dye definitely could play it. Plus with his canon, he’d probably set his career mark for outfield assists.
Right. But they weren’t just looking for someone who would be adequate in LF, they were looking for someone who would be a defensive difference maker in LF. Their motto this year is “a run saved is just as good as a run created”. We’ll see how it plays out.
I understand, but if that’s the case, I would keep Elsbury in CF… he was great there last year.
He was great because his speed covered up his poor reads on balls in play. That’s why he had so many eye popping catches…he’s good, but he’s not Cameron. I’m not saying Cameron + Ellsbury was definitely a better way to go than Ellsbury + Dye. I just don’t know if Cameron is going to be the bust that everyone thinks he’ll be.
I understand, but if that’s the case, I would keep Elsbury in CF… he was great there last year.
They concentrated too much on Defense, your lineup should be balanced offensively and defensively, their OF will be the less offensive they have put together in years, just pray for Drew not to get hurt wich will be almost impossible and Cameron not to finish the season with a 243 AVG…
The bosox should sign JD to play the first half of the season to allow for Drew to be healthy the complete second half of the season. $3-5 Mil for 1 yr… hahaha
The bosox should sign JD to play the first half of the season to allow for Drew to be healthy the complete second half of the season. $3-5 Mil for 1 yr… hahaha
Just the thought of JD in Petco’s outfield should be enough reason to skip him. Having to shed salary to do so is above and beyond.
I hope JD signs soon, so theres no thought of him coming back to the Sox.
Any National League general manager would be out of their mind to sign Dye and play him in the OF. He is a DH and nothing more.
And that’s Jim Hendry’s cue to sign him.
Isn’t that the sad truth Maximus
Spoken like a true Cubs fan. Don’t worry, it’ll be alright. Wait, no it won’t. *weeps quietly*
…. yea, maybe next year
If they got Dye for 3 Million I wouldn’t be mad, I would be confused!I guess he could play right field while Blanks was in LF and TGJ and Venable were Patrolling CF then it would be a certain that Kouz or Headley were going to be moved, not exactly a shocker if it were either player. It also eliminates players like Reed Johnson or any platoon type players. If they did sign Dye, my immediate reaction would be they are going to trade Adrian now. Today the Padres outfielders, Chase Headley( natural position 3rd) Will Venable, a solid RF not REALLY a CF but can play but not IDEAL for Petco’s confines. Kyle Blanks(a natural first baseman but VERY VERY athletic) but with his size (280LBS/ 6’6″) rises concerns of Blanks playing everyday in Petco day and day out. Then Tony Gwynn Jr. not fast enough to be a burner, not really a good enough hitter with power to be an every day player but is a good 4th outfield type.Knowing Blanks is more suited to be a first baseman, Headley at 3rd and Venable not an ideal CF and the fact that their new GM Jed “the Jedi” Hoyer emphasizes Defense, Speed, Pitching, my only conclusion would be that many moves would be coming after that. Maybe not right away, but adding Dye really doesn’t fit the “mold” of Hoyer’s Emphasis, “playing to Petco’s advantage”.
Why would Dye have any impact on trading AGon or not? I would think it has more of an impact on trading Kouz than anything. Headley/Gwynn/Venable/Dye would be one of the worst OF defense in the majors. If we get Headley back to 3B, it would at least relieve some of the logjam. This team needs offense and I think I might be able to live with a Blanks/Gwynn/Venable/Dye group if they could give AGon some protection.
A 1yr/$3M deal for Dye would be super low-risk too…
Kouz or Headley will be going no matter what!Can you honestly say you see an outfield of Blanks LF, Venable CF, Dye RF? Does that provide Adrian with some protection more so in contrast to other years, yes, but it also just made the Padres outfield atrocious for a team that has been saying “build Petco to our advantage”. Speed, pitching and defense!Adrian will be traded at some point, its not if, its when!It would make MORE sense if Adrian were traded IF the picked up Dye IN THE sense that now Blanks could be moved to 1st, his natural pos. Headley, his natural Pos. 3rd and SOME what take the 4th spot over for Adrian rather than protect him. Meaning when they trade A Gone, because they will, they will no longer have a Vet #4 middle of the lineup guy. Allowing for whom ever else in the trade would be coming in to the Padres as well, maybe another outfielder who knows..In that case you would have1. Everth Cabrera SS2. David Eckstein 2nd3. Chase Headley 3rd OR trade Chase and keep Kouz then again the batting order would be shuffled.4. Jemaine Dye RF5. Kyle Blanks 1st he will start somewhere! LF or 1st base, he will be an opening day starter6. Will Venable LF7. Nick Hundley/ Dusty Ryan C8. Tony Gwynn Jr. CF, OR a player the Padres bring in the Adrian trade… I also still do not rule out Ellsbury in that case the lineup would look much different!It makes much more sense to get players playing their natural POS. instead of making it one of the worst outfields in all of BB. Now of course the IE the Padres could make it work for awhile and it would be good PR to have Adrian and Dye in the same lineup but not realistic long term and again Adrian will be dealt, NO WAY the reach agreement, thats coming from someone who REALLY does not want to see Adrian move, its just realistic, its going to happen, period.
If you trade Kouz and move Headley to 3B, then you only have ONE player out of position (Blanks in LF)…He was going to be in the OF anyway, right? That’s not a big deal at all, imo, and is well worth the defensive hit that Dye brings.
This team needs offense in a terrible way and a 4-5 OF rotation of Blanks-Venable-Gwynn-Dye-J Hairston(?) would help keep everyone fresh. Gwynn is an ideal late-inning replacement.
Not really, you have a guy like Blanks that has very limited time in his life in the outfield let alone on a pro level and he went down to a foot injury late in the year, a man that big no matter how well he is playing now is better suited for 1st.Yes, he was going to be in the outfield anyway but now you just added another sub par defender to roam Petco? Not only that, they want Venable in everyday, him playing CF full time doesn’t make sense either! Especially NOT FOR PETCO!3 outfielders that are out of pos in a sense, Venable not IDEAL at all for CF full time. Blanks, very very good athlete but would be much better suited at 1st long term. Dye, really.. enough said. Its Petco, not a pony field, a lot of room one of the hardest parks in BB to cover period!
I’m just as worried about Blanks’ knees/feet/legs in the OF as the next guy…but the Padres don’t seem interested in trading AGon anytime soon, at least until they try to talk about an extension, so Blanks was going to be in the OF to start the season. To try and minimize his injury risk, they’d probably like to put him in LF as opposed to RF…Dye helps them accomplish this.
What’s “ideal” and what’s “available” for the Padres are very different things…
What is “available” just made your outfield a joke!
Now if were talking a above AVG defender like Nady, I am with that! But Dye, come on….
“the Padres don’t seem interested in trading AGon anytime soon, at least until they try to talk about an extension”
They are playing poker man, they are not going to scream Adrian is available because right now for ONCE they have they leverage in trading him, being the biggest chip in all of baseball, he will not sign in SD (for an SD discount) especially when your power is basically taken away from you to RF and RCF and he has been very outspoken about the fences! They cannot afford Texiera like money and Adrian will be in that “ballpark” money wise.
I still see Adrian traded, maybe not now but knowing either way you are going to have to trade your star player of that caliber you do need a VET presence in your lineup after he is gone, like a Nady or Dye to be the #4 hitter.
Blanks was going to start in LF anyway, with Venable in right and TGJ in CF with a possible platoon, I doubt they were going to start Blanks full time in RF.
Predictions for Dye and Blanks for 2010 have them combining for 50 HR and 180 RBI…I’ll take that “joke” any day over the combo of Headley/Venable that we were running out in the corner OF spots at the end of last year.
I’d have no problem bringing Nady in either…he could be alright. His defense is marginal, his bat is slightly above average, doesn’t cost much…sure, he’d fit with the Padres, but again, far from “ideal”.
Dye going from Chicago to Petco will not help anything offensively, NOR defensively, which I should point out it was not that great at all last year!Again your addressing the offense and dismissing how atrocious the outfield would be, how many runs would the padres be giving up on defense in contrast to even an AVG outfield in Petco no less!!! The runs given up would not even close to justify a dilapidating Dye!”I’d have no problem bringing Nady in either…he could be alright. His defense is marginal, his bat is slightly above average, doesn’t cost much…sure, he’d fit with the Padres, but again, far from “ideal”.”You might want to take another look at Nady’s line, his scouting on his defense as well, you are FAR OFF! Nady is a good defender with a good arm (if healthy) and his bat is far from “slightly average”. He is a threat, he is not old and does strike fear into pitchers, Hoyer, the Padres GM conceded that when he was in Bo. they were not thrilled about Nady being picked up by the Yankees because he is a very good ball player and has a nice bat!
I’m looking at Nady’s defensive lines over at fangraphs…and I’m seeing a career UZR of -2.1 and 1.8 for LF/RF, respectively and a career OF UZR of -4.5 I see some error-less seasons, but a lot of negative numbers where his arm and range are concerned. Those observations seem to support my claim that Nady is a “marginal” OF, wouldn’t you say? Dye is worse obviously, but Nady’s not great either…and as far as his bat goes, I’m guessing he’d end up .275/.335/.440 type line who’s going to strike out 100-120 times in a year. Is that really “a threat”? Just what kind of player do you think Nady is?Am I crazy or should “addressing the offense” be the absolute top priority for a team that finished (again) near dead last in the league in every offensive category?
NO, you said his bat is slightly above avg. That was my main gripe with your comment, but I do not totally dismiss sabermetrics I also have seen him play and tend to listen to scouting reports by authoritative sources/ scouts over sabermetrics any day!But how could you be critical of Nady defensively but then turn around and want Dye? You criticize the obvious superior defender in Nady? YES superior at this point in every aspect of his game baring injury.What your definition of “marginal” that to me would imply below AVG, very limited… Nady is not period. All these adjectives, slight, small, tiny, minute, insignificant, minimal, negligible. do not support Nady even with his UZR career.”Am I crazy or should “addressing the offense” be the absolute top priority for a team that finished (again) near dead last in the league in every offensive category?”Absolutely, but not at the cost of more runs given up on defensive to counter act any upgrade by the offense which IMO would not be significant ENOUGH, it would be a joke of an outfield.Even Nady would not be the Padres ideal choice as a defender because they want a outfielder that can hit lefties and play all outfield spots, Nady doesn’t fit that bill but bye FAR is superior defender to Dye, so I could understand that move MUCH more given his age, speed and defense for Petco. “I’m guessing he’d end up .275/.335/.440 type line who’s going to strike out 100-120 times in a year. Is that really “a threat”? I understand there’s probably not much difference between Nady and Dye in terms of production these days, but just what kind of player do you think Nady really is?”What are you basing that on? How many HR? There very diff players actually. Nady is still in his prime to some degree while Dye is regressing in every aspect of his game. Dye is slow, Nady is not! Nady will hit for a higher AVG. They both strike out, MOST power hitters DO! “Nady’s not great either”I never said his defense was! I still maintain Nady is an above AVG outfielder especially in contrast to a dilapidating player past his prime in Dye. Defensively there really is NO comparison!What was Nady’s UZR in Pittsburgh when he was healthy?”who’s going to strike out 100-120 times in a year.”I think the most Nady has ever struck out was 101 times full year or not.
I also believe since 06 Dye’s UZR has been right around -20 or so.
Your main gripe is that you think Nady is an “above average” bat? Based on one year in Pittsburgh? Sorry, but Nady’s not getting anywhere close to a .305/.357/.510 line in Petco….THAT was his prime, he’s not getting close to that any time soon. He’ll be 31 next year, so we’ve got maybe one year of “prime” left…do you think he exceeds the line I predicted for him?How many HRs will he hit? I dunno…if I set the over/under at 21, would you take the over? The point is, if you put Nady and Dye in the same ballpark, I’ll put my money on Dye hitting more HR every time…As for the defense, we’re really just arguing semantics…the point is, he’s not going to win a gold glove, he’ll probably make a handful of errant throws during the season, miss the cutoff man, and look clumsy on those awkward bounces in RF in Petco. Nady’s defense is only an “advantage” because it’s not as bad as Dye’s, but I’d argue it’s not going to make a statistical difference in the Padres ability to win games during the season.Dye’s offense however, has the potential to put up 25+ HR and knock some guys around the bases. Even during his worst statistical season last year, Dye still excelled at the plate with RISP (especially with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 out…a situation you know this team has been awful at lately…) On a team that’s been DREADFUL at the plate the last few years, that’s a trade-off I’m willing to make.
Nady’s UZR in Pitt were worse than his career totals, for the record…
“Nady’s defense is only an “advantage” because it’s not as bad as Dye’s, but I’d argue it’s not going to make a statistical difference in the Padres ability to win games during the season.”Not as bad? NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!Dye going from Cellular field blah blah none of that even matters, flat our Nady is head and shoulders above Dye defensively, but even that not the point entirely, point is, Dye in the outfield would make Venable the CF that would be a down grade too. It changes the whole dynamics of the outfield, I already said, Hoyer is emphasizing on speed and defense, period, it wont happen! Blanks, Venable, Dye. I don’t think ONE authoritative source or organization would compromise their outfield ESPECIALLY in Petco and the REST of the division for Dye to get an upgrade that would not be incredibly substantial. If two of your other fielders were well above AVG ok, moot discussion, if they get Dye Adrian will be gone. They will not have Blanks, Venable, Dye in the outfield period. IF they made some moves to bring in another speedster type outfielder like I said from the very beginning it starts to make more sense.
Dye is a BAD defender Nady is not cased closed!
The Dye move _on it’s own_ doesn’t make any sense, that I agree with. Only when we see the secondary moves will things start to come into focus. Ideally, a Kouz (or Headley) trade would follow.
Nady is a better defender than Dye…this I also agree with (and have from the beginning).
I disagree with just about everything else you said though…
-You have yet to explain how Nady’s offense is superior to Dye’s.
-The OF has been “compromised” since the first day they stuck Ryan Klesko out in LF. Do I need to mention that LF has also been occupied by the likes of Terrmel Sledge, Hiram Bocachica, Chase Headley, and even Miguel freakin’ Ojeda recently?
-AKAIK, Venable was already penciled to rotate between CF/RF depending on the matchups. Bringing in Dye moves Gwynn to a 4th OF role, something that he seems more accustomed for anyway. Plus, I doubt Bud would hesitate to give Dye a couple days off during the week, meaning Venable will still get his 300-400 ABs for the year.
-I still don’t see why bringing in Dye (or Nady for that matter) would have any bearing on what Jed wants to do with AGon.
-As I said before, what Jed wants to do and what the payroll restrictions allow him to do could be very different things.
Dye going from Chicago to Petco will not help anything offensively, NOR defensively, which I should point out it was not that great at all last year!Again your addressing the offense and dismissing how atrocious the outfield would be, how many runs would the padres be giving up on defense in contrast to even an AVG outfield in Petco no less!!! The runs given up would not even close to justify a dilapidating Dye!”I’d have no problem bringing Nady in either…he could be alright. His defense is marginal, his bat is slightly above average, doesn’t cost much…sure, he’d fit with the Padres, but again, far from “ideal”.”You might want to take another look at Nady’s line, his scouting on his defense as well, you are FAR OFF! Nady is a good defender with a good arm (if healthy) and his bat is far from “slightly average”. He is a threat, he is not old and does strike fear into pitchers, Hoyer, the Padres GM conceded that when he was in Bo. they were not thrilled about Nady being picked up by the Yankees because he is a very good ball player and has a nice bat!
I actually like the idea of Dye in SD. He would actually give Adrian some protection in the lineup and give opposing NL teams something to deal with. The Padres can make a lot of low cost signings that can help that team win and sell tickets.
I’m sick of all the Red Sox fans talking about the Padres like they need to be broken down and sold for parts. They are already rock bottom, but some smart signings can help them win some games and make the season interesting in SD.
The NL West is a joke. Anyone can win it. I’d sign Dye on the cheap and hope it fortifies the offense enough to give the team a better chance than it has right now.
He can easily be defensively replaced late in games.
All these teams spouting defense first are going to feel differently when they are losing games because their defense can’t get a run across the plate.
Teams need to be balanced, not defense heavy. Every great team has more than a player or two who aren’t gold glovers. The Yankees just won with Cabrera in CF, Damon in LF, Swisher in RF and Posada behind the plate.
4/5 th’s of their lineup weren’t exactly defensive monsters.
You should look at Dye’s 2009 second half numbers….abysmal.
As for the Yankees, it is a little easier to overcome an average defense with Jeter, A Rod, Teixiera, Damon, and other mashers in the lineup. Do not compare the Padres to the Yankees.
I’m hardly comparing the Padres to the Yankees. My point was that all this “defense first” and defense wins stuff is pointless if your team can’t score runs. You can’t win a game without scoring a run.
All we’ve been hearing all off season is how brilliant Theo is for realizing that he should emphasize defense over offense to win a championship.
The first time Cameron and Beltre don’t come through in the clutch and lose a game for the Red Sox, the fans and the media aren’t going to care if they catch the ball better than they hit.
To say the Padres shouldn’t sign a player who can possibly hit 25-30 HR’s in a season because he’s bad defensively is silly. The Padres need offense somewhere other than 1b to win some games.
If the Padres played their cards right, they will wait out the free agent market and get bargains. There are players still on the board who are better than the players the Padres currently have penciled in and they aren’t going to cost an arm and a leg to sign for basically a year.
I don’t buy this “defense is the way” stuff. I think it’s just another way for a GM to sell to his fanbase the reason why they aren’t pursuing high dollar offensive players who cost real big money.
I understand the fact that you need to have solid defense on your team, but for a team like the Padres who are desperate for any semblance of an offense in a very weak division, it’s not out of line to suggest they sign a player who actually can hit for power.
great post. i agree wholeheartedly. defensive range looks to be the new overvalued stat (like OBP once upon a time), allowing power bats who can still hit the ball over the fence to be had for cheap via FA if you wait long enough.
as useful as UZR and other def metrics can be, i think these stats still do not accurately measure the value of a strong arm in the OF. how else can the “ARM” ratings in UZR for players like Guerrero, Ichiro, and Hawpe ever be measured as below avg? obviously a strong arm might compensate for bad range to an extent by holding runners, and allowing below-avg fielders to maintain effectiveness in the MLB if they can continue to hit.
The two worst ballparks dye could play (defensively speaking) is Wrigley’s RF and any OF position in SD. He just doesn’t move that well anymore. He still has a canon, but he needs it once he’s picked up the ball at the wall.
They Padres could easily afford Dye without having to shed payroll, it has already been stated that they are adding salary, not subtracting. If they Move Kouz, Bell or Adrian these moves will have little to do with Dye and 3 million!
All those players are likely to move anyway for younger, cheaper controllable MLB ready “prospects” with high upside.
How does moving Kouz save really anything?
It’s not about saving money…it’s about getting Headley out of the OF.
Padres have a truckload of 3b. If they keep kouz, they’d be forced having in in LF and Blanks RF. With or without dye, that might be the worst defensive OF in mlb. The padres also have 3b prospects darnell and forsythe maybe ready by 2011. The padres should either trade headley or kouz and fill their huge CF need
I don’t like this move for either party.If Dye is taking a one year deal to boost his value Petco would be the last place on earth to try that. Remember, Dye is just a year removed from posting an OPS in the high 800’s. At the beginning of the year there was talk of the White Sox picking up his option. The season started off fine for him (942 OPS in the 1st half) but then he tanked.I think the guy has a lot to offer a club. Given a chance, on a good club, playing in a decent hitters ballpark, he could rebound nicely. That would set him up for ’11 and beyond.
Did Dye have any injury issues during the 2nd half? …or did he just come down with a bad case of “suck”?
No significant injuries….just struggled to get anything going. It stands to reason that as they made him play in the OF every day, his legs wore out and he got tired. I really would not mind it if I was a fan of an AL team and they gave Dye $3-5 million to serve as my team’s designated hitter. Playing him in the outfield, regardless of the park, is an awful idea. Besides 81 games at Petco, how about the games played at Dodger Stadium? Coors? Do you want him roaming those outfields either?
The bottom line is that the Padres need offense in a big way…even just the _threat_ of offense. They need a way to keep pitchers honest to AGon and I think Dye might be the best option given the Padres financial issues. His defense is atrocious, but Bud Black is becoming a more adept NL manager and is getting used to defensive subs/double switches so I think he could figure out ways to help keep Dye fresh and not have to play him every inning of every game. I think some combo of Blanks-Gwynn-Venable-Dye (maybe Chad Huffman too if he gets hot at AAA?) would be pretty effective.
The key to this is moving Kouz to get Headley back to 3B…I don’t want to see Headley in the OF for a single inning more.
Id rather see Durango if he can start actually hitting the ball out of the infield, maybe the fastest player in all of BB let alone the Padres organization. I would rather him in contrast to Huffman because he fits the “mold” of Petco park
Durango’s got a ton to work on in the OF and at the plate…he might have a worse arm than Juan Pierre. Plus, as you said, if he can’t start shooting the gaps, he’s going to have an impossible time against ML pitching…especially in the NL West.
I am VERY familiar with Durango, his arm is MUCH improved! I am in no way concerned with his arm, his stolen base ratio is a question mark but he is getting better and he needs to drive the ball period. When I say drive the ball I mean out of the infield lol
I don’t see any rookie on the roster unless they are playing full time, that would most likely eliminate Huffman or Durango.. for now.
haha yeah, I agree…Durango really needs to learn how to hit a line drive.
And it’s not just about his arm…he still runs poor routes, he still gets late jumps, etc. Bottom line, he needs time in AAA. Add to that his questionable bat and his raw base-running skills and there’s no way this guy should be on a major league roster to start the season.
And yes, I’d have no problem starting the season with Blanks-Venable-Gwynn-Dye as an OF. I’m not seeing many better options at this point…Reed Johnson? Blech.
If Dye wants to sign for 3 million yes!
But again that is a pre cursor to several moves IMO Short term solution to a BIG trade. Again IMO
Durango needs time in AAA no doubt, I am intrigued by him the more I see him though..
Don’t forget SF, NL West has some interesting parks to deal with outside of Chase field. in Az.
Micky what in the world is going on here? lol I take a 5 hour break from this site and we are suddenly interested in Dye? Confused is the 1st work like you said that comes to mind….. I dont know if I like any move that might take away at bats from Veneble.
There is alot of chat on here about moving Kouz, I hope we can move Headley and not Kouz but he does make alot more $ so I’m sure that is why we would do that…
lol no kidding right!~
Again I am certain an outfield of Blanks, Dye, Venable would be a joke.
Again to me, IMO it makes more sense if they are in the works with a deal trading A Gone.
Hey If its ONLY 3 million do it!
Still, what does that say to other teams about Kouz’s value at that point?
Very interesting at the very least.
Oh man…Hoyer don’t do it! That could be one of the slowest outfields ever in the history of MLB. Either that or one of them (Dye/Blanks/Veneble) will be riding the pine and platooning…. Veneble would have to play center… do you think he can cut it out there? Man what happened to Jerry Jr? lol I was liking that direction much more
I do not think Venable can handle CF everyday nor do I think its anywhere close to ideal. He is a good corner outfielder but would be a below AVG CF. For Petco not a good idea to have Venable in CF.
As I said long before there was any Jerry Hairston talk IMO the Padres cant get in ANY bidding wars with teams like the Yankees so he IMO will not be in SD. We just cant compete when other teams are bidding, maybe thats why Dye has come up no bidding lower price substantially! Even still, Dye is more of a DH and yes, the outfield would be a JOKE!!!
I do not think Venable can handle CF everyday nor do I think its anywhere close to ideal. He is a good corner outfielder but would be a below AVG CF. For Petco not a good idea to have Venable in CF.
As I said long before there was any Jerry Hairston talk IMO the Padres cant get in ANY bidding wars with teams like the Yankees so he IMO will not be in SD. We just cant compete when other teams are bidding, maybe thats why Dye has come up no bidding lower price substantially! Even still, Dye is more of a DH and yes, the outfield would be a JOKE!!!
You’d prefer Hairston Jr over Jermaine Dye? Now I know I’m out of touch with other Padres fans…this is what happens when speed and athleticism start to trump actual hitting ability.
Hell ya I would… he can play a solid center field (Dye cant play a solid anything), he can be our utility guy as well….he has some pop and alittle speed. Don’t get me wrong Dye is a great hitter but he cant roam our huge ball park and he really doesn’t fit with everything we have going…. If Dye is in left and Blanks is in right….do you know how much ground our center fielder better be able to cover? We don’t have Torri Hunter so that’s a tough one
Hairston Jr. is nothing more than a .700 OPS platoon partner with Gwynn. Dye (with proper usage from Buddy and occasional rest) has potential to be a middle of the order presence in a lineup that desperately needs it. Even half a year of Dye is better than a full season of Hairston Jr, imo.
Wow there’s no arguing with you is there? Dye must be the best thing ever not too be wanted by any other team…. When Gwynn starts stinking it up just stick Dye out there right? oh wait we don’t have anyone else to plug in out there…. So we have Blanks/Dye Gwynn in the OF with Headley and Veneble riding the pine or platooning every game? don’t think that works either man….
I’d like Mickykokes opinion on this….
Um, isn’t “arguing” exactly what we’re doing?
Anyway, I’ve fully admitted to Dye’s deficiencies in just about every post…
He’s old, his defense is awful, and he had a terrible 2nd half.
But something has to give in order for this team to win games next year. For me, it’s defense, obviously that’s not the case for you…fair enough.
Since we can’t have our pick of the FA litter, you have to “pick your poison”…do you want a utility infielder/platoon partner who can flash a little leather but will hit .250 with no power, or do you want a lump in RF who could pop out a couple months of .850+ OPS? If Mike Piazza could do it with absolutely no protection, I’d be willing to bet Dye would be able to do it too.
The only way Dye helps our team is if it gets Blanks out of the outfield along with headley and that would lead to Adrian being traded.
In that case Dye would be a good pick up Dye RF, Venable LF and possibly another speedster type CF coming back in the A Gone trade, Ellsbury, would be nice.
A realistic option is Jerry H Jr. because he could platoon with TGJ in CF and spell Cabbie and Eck and whoever else.
Dye in the outfield with Blanks and Venable just would change the whole dynamic going against everything Hoyer has claimed, emphasizing Speed, defense to play to an advantage to Petco park Dye does not fit that Bill, Jerry Hairston does period.
Any scenario in which AGon is not on the Padres doesn’t help our team.
Nor does having 3 outfielders out of place!Get it now?Venable, Blanks, Dye will not be in the outfield together..period.And Venable is not penciled it in CF, just because he played some games last year. This is why they want a Reed Johnson or Hairston Jr to platoon with Gwynn. Come to think of it, it would depend on what the Padres got in return for Adrian to come to the conclusion that it made the Padres a better team or not!
First off, when has this organization EVER had an issue with guys playing out of position? The way they’ve drafted lately, it seems they almost encourage it!For Venable, sure, he’s not a proto-typical CF, but he’s no newbie at it. In fact, it seems that’s the one OF position he logged the MOST time in! Check baseball-reference if you don’t believe it. At closer inspection, it’s not really clear exactly which OF position he played the most during his minor league career…BUT, it is clear that he played the bulk of his time there while at Portland…that’s good enough for me.As long as one of Headley or Kouz gets traded, I still contend we’ll only have ONE player playing a position that he hasn’t had significant experience (>100 games) in at some point during his career, and that’s Blanks…who was slated to be an OF in some capacity since the 2009 season ended.
“First off, when has this organization EVER had an issue with guys playing out of position? The way they’ve drafted lately, it seems they almost encourage it!”
You cannot compare the new regime to the old!
You cannot talk about prior players like Klesko P Mac or any of the other players were thrown out in the outfield because this is a new regime!
We know what Hoyer’s emphasis is on, why go on and on about something that will never happen!
I am WELL aware of Venable’s career numbers, minor league line included, they have flat out said he is the RF, would you like the link to that, I am sure I could find it, its still moot, these players will not be in the outfield together.
Even Venable is new in some degree to baseball having spent a lot of time playing Basketball, he is still VERY raw, they ARE NOT going to rely on him in CF!
I think I made it VERY clear in my initial post what I thought about the entire idea, go back check it out, my stance has not changed, no spin here.
New regime, old regime…same old terrible offense.Yes, you’ve made your point very clear…I just don’t agree with any of it. Except that Nady is a better defender than Dye, of course.Why are you so against capitalizing on Venable’s versatility? He’s already logged over 350 innings in CF with the Padres and hasn’t made an error yet. That seems to suggest he’s at least competent and athletic enough to play there part-time. Just because he’s not Torii Hunter (or even Gwynn Jr.) with the glove doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t play CF.
You are continuously avoiding my questions(instead of answering them directly) to you and spinning another question back at me.. interesting debating tactic, not so sure that is the best way to make your case.
You are dismissing MANY valid points only to focus on other stats instead of answering my questions I have posed, again this discussion is moot. Would I take him for 3 million yes, do I think that would be a pre cursor for MANY other moves yes!
I wouldn’t exactly call Venable Versatile because he is a borderline CF with limited BB experience with a late start again a late start and also they IE the Padres HAVE SAID he will be in RF.
What else do you need to know…
WTF are you talking about? Other than a sarcastic quip like “You get it now?” you don’t ask questions, you just say things like “That’s the way it is, period!” or “That’s not what Jed said!” or telling me what I “can” or “can’t” talk about…how ’bout you take a look in the mirror buddy?
So go ahead, ask whatever question you think you asked before…I promise I’ll answer it directly and honestly this time.
BTW, I still have yet to hear any kind of projection from you on Nady, or why Nady’s offense is so obviously superior to Dye’s…
When I have told you flat out that Hoyer has expressed the direction of the team and your answer to that is something like well, Venable/ stats he can play CF blah blah drivel. Yea, ok… nobody said he couldn’t play CF here, we are talking about what our GM has said that the direction of the team is going towards, away from slower un-athletic type players and playing the park into an advantage to Petco, you have zero response to that, its a fact and it goes against everything you have said regarding Dye! They also have said that Venable is the RF! What is SO complicated? Nobody is suggesting he cant play there… only that he wont because YES, Hoyer has said that, then I offered a link, you had no response, to many of my statements I might add. I am not sure you would want to rehash your nescience to the direction of the team…Knowing the direction of the team and organization Hoyer and Co. has emphasized , why are you even arguing the fact, I have pointed out facts that totally contradict what your are saying.Regarding Nady, I said he would hit for a higher AVG, you made predictions, then said things like, 100-120 K’s funny, since he has never struck out close to 120 times unlike Dye. I was referring to Nady as a whole, not JUST offensively, if I said anywhere that Nady was superior offensively, show me that exact quote, and I will explain what I meant. I think I took issue with how you downplayed him offensively!Nady has also played in some what of pitchers parks, Dye not so much! I was also speaking of how age would play a role.What was the word you used to describe him offensively? “slightly above Avg” Yea, I don’t know if authoritative sources once again would agree with your amateur assessment of Nady’s bat.
wow..this narrow format is harder to read than the classifieds.
Amen brother….
Veneble’s going to be our Antonio Gates… comes out of no where an takes over the league…lol I’m going to be a huge Veneble Apologist this year…. so yet again I say any moves that takes AB’s away from that young man is a bad move….
Writing up here since it’s getting tough to read…-Ahhh, so you believe (at face value) the things that come out of the mouths of the Padres brass. Now I see why we’re butting heads. I tend not to. You can call me cynical, but I’ll believe it when I see it. Taking what a GM says at face value seems naive to me. Nothing he said is set in stone! Like you said, “these guys are playing poker”. Isn’t the guy allowed to change his mind if new opportunities present themselves? If Hoyer has the opportunity to get Jermaine Dye at $3M, I’d have a really hard time believing he’d pass that up when he has come out and said that he’s looking for another RH OF bat that can help the offense.-I would love to see a link/quote that says, “Venable is ONLY going to play RF for us.” or “Venable will NOT start in CF at all.” If you have one, do share.
-So if I told you that Nady would hit 18 HR with a .280/.335/.430 line and strikeout “about” 100 times, would you disagree?
Edit: But again, we’re getting into things you “told” me and things YOU take as fact. These are not “questions”…just you ranting at somebody that disagrees with you.
Why, when the entire emphases is on defense, speed, athleticism/ pitching, we are not talking about a MINOR compromise here, it would be a MAJOR down grade to their philosophy!
Were not talking about JUST signing Dye, were talking about how that would change the entire dynamic of the team, in the other way contrary to even before Kt left, they were getting MORE athletic and trying to implement that.
I said if its for 3 million do it! I already said that, however again MY feeling is there is no way that move does not only affect Headley, Kouz but Venable, Blanks and Adrian. Don’t see it and it makes no sense. Yes, they are playing poker, but Hoyer will say for the most part who they are interested in and why, if they ARE INDEED interested in Dye, which I am not so sure that is even set in stone, It would be to ease the fact that Adrian would be getting dealt and he could resume the #4 spot with VET presence. Now, that would make sense, could they platoon some players until the move Adrian, I guess but how long will that take, IMO not long at all and frankly just wont happen.
“-I would love to see a link/quote that says, “Venable is ONLY going to play RF for us.” or “Venable will NOT start in CF at all.” If you have one, do share.”
Hoyer stated plain and simple he is our RF! Of course he COULD play CF again that would contradict HIS OWN PHILOSOPHY!
KT was in an interview with I believe 1090 saying he is our guy in RF, asked about CF we think he can but its far from ideal.
I don’t buy the FO “kooliad” but Hoyer has been very adamant about his philosophy and playing his advantage to Petco as “key”! Knowing that, c’mon man..
“chello”!
If the Padres are actually going to step up and sign a true major league player it seems to me that they should try to sign Orlando Hudson to a 2 yr deal. Much as I love Eckstein this is a position which they could improve and there is a lack of 2nd basemen in their minor league system.
Couldn’t agree more.
that would be cool man but if that Nats cant get a deal done with him because of $ what makes you think the pads can? Plus we seem to be not looking in that area at all of 2b…I wish we would but not likely… I’d even like Ronnie Belliard over Eck
If Dye can only command $3 million then what can Thome really command?
If Dye can only command $3 million then what can Thome really command?
I have a feeling the Dye thing was just thrown out there for lack of better Padres news. The majority of the media seems to know nothing about the Padres, period!
I think Jed is probably hoping to get maybe Hairston/Winn (Or both, but that would be tough), Lowry, and Redmond. If we get those four I think I would be very pleased. If we don’t get a guy like Hairston, we need to find a guy like Amezaga to play that utility role.
For once, I am fairly positive with the direction this offseason seems to be headed if some of these moves come to fruition. I would still much rather have Kouz as opposed to Headley though!
Wow, your either reading my mind or my posts on the San Diego forum lol
I totally agree, on Hairston Jr., Redmond, Winn and Amezaga.
I have to disagree on Headley Vs. Kouz, respectfully of course, a good case can be made for both players, that is really and endless conversation. In fact really to me, its short term anyway because of guys like Darnell and Forsythe.
Maybe a little of both LOL I think both of us have been mentioning these sentiments over on the SD website for a while now.
I can certainly understand your point about Headley/Kouz, I just tend to be in the Kouz camp. I am still waiting for headley to live up to the excpectations (Maybe unfair, but right now, I would rather have Blumie than Headley), and I want to see Kouz with a year of Randy Ready, not to mention his glove isn’t too shabby. Not to mention, if Kouz goes, how can I name my next German Sheppard after him haha!!!
LOL
But Kouz isn’t german lol he’s Macedonian. haha
In regards to Ready I would apply that to Headley as well, he coached Headley not Kouz, just saying.
True that he coached Headley, but Kouz was finally a little more disciplined at the plate and had an improving OBP, and he was finally taking some walks when Ready got to the big club. I also don’t see Headley ever having 25-30hr potential which is already there with Kouz, while I can see Kouz improving his avg. as his OBP and eye to that low and away pitch become more disciplined. My train of thought, but as you said earlier, we can go on about this one forever!
As far as the dog goes, I realize Kouz is not German, it was just the thought of teaching him to respond and Howl everytime I yelled “Koooooooooooouz” that got me going lol
lol
What about Everth, that would be funny for a German Sheppard.
Dammit, Everth.. eating the coach agaiN!
Naah,
If it couldn’t be Kouz, I would just find the biggest German Sheppard possible and name him Blanks so I could call him “The 8 Train”.
Nice!
True that he coached Headley, but Kouz was finally a little more disciplined at the plate and had an improving OBP, and he was finally taking some walks when Ready got to the big club. I also don’t see Headley ever having 25-30hr potential which is already there with Kouz, while I can see Kouz improving his avg. as his OBP and eye to that low and away pitch become more disciplined. My train of thought, but as you said earlier, we can go on about this one forever!
As far as the dog goes, I realize Kouz is not German, it was just the thought of teaching him to respond and Howl everytime I yelled “Koooooooooooouz” that got me going lol
LOL
But Kouz isn’t german lol he’s Macedonian. haha
In regards to Ready I would apply that to Headley as well, he coached Headley not Kouz, just saying.
Maybe a little of both LOL I think both of us have been mentioning these sentiments over on the SD website for a while now.
I can certainly understand your point about Headley/Kouz, I just tend to be in the Kouz camp. I am still waiting for headley to live up to the excpectations (Maybe unfair, but right now, I would rather have Blumie than Headley), and I want to see Kouz with a year of Randy Ready, not to mention his glove isn’t too shabby. Not to mention, if Kouz goes, how can I name my next German Sheppard after him haha!!!
Wow, your either reading my mind or my posts on the San Diego forum lol
I totally agree, on Hairston Jr., Redmond, Winn and Amezaga.
I have to disagree on Headley Vs. Kouz, respectfully of course, a good case can be made for both players, that is really and endless conversation. In fact really to me, its short term anyway because of guys like Darnell and Forsythe.
Totally…. I always write on mlb that Corey Brock has nothing to write about so we get write ups on: Scouting director signings/Front office signings/Player development signings but no actual player signings….lol
Seems like the Yankees might be leaning towards Nady again, maybe that could give us a shot at Jerry Jr? Wish we could have Nady Back …. X nads the man who all the SD woman would love to have back….lol Oh man even my girlfriend has a crush on him still…so lame!
Totally…. I always write on mlb that Corey Brock has nothing to write about so we get write ups on: Scouting director signings/Front office signings/Player development signings but no actual player signings….lol
Seems like the Yankees might be leaning towards Nady again, maybe that could give us a shot at Jerry Jr? Wish we could have Nady Back …. X nads the man who all the SD woman would love to have back….lol Oh man even my girlfriend has a crush on him still…so lame!
I have a feeling the Dye thing was just thrown out there for lack of better Padres news. The majority of the media seems to know nothing about the Padres, period!
I think Jed is probably hoping to get maybe Hairston/Winn (Or both, but that would be tough), Lowry, and Redmond. If we get those four I think I would be very pleased. If we don’t get a guy like Hairston, we need to find a guy like Amezaga to play that utility role.
For once, I am fairly positive with the direction this offseason seems to be headed if some of these moves come to fruition. I would still much rather have Kouz as opposed to Headley though!
If Dye would be three million the Braves should jump on that. A big power bat who could jump back from the rocky second half.
If Dye would be three million the Braves should jump on that. A big power bat who could jump back from the rocky second half.
I’m not here to mock you guys, but after hearing people call for Sabean to bring Dye to the Giants since the start of the FA spree, if Dye wound up going to San Diego I would have to laugh. Admittedly he might be a better fit than Winn if you guys want some pop in your lineup, but… It’s Jermaine Dye.
While that may be true, I don’t know that you could really give us a hard time in either case. You needed a real bat in your lineup in SF and got Aubrey Huff and Mark Derosa??? Explain to me what the improvement was here, because that is not much diffrent than Ishikawa and Winn. Nobody doubts your pitching, that is for sure…but SF is one of the teams I can say with full confidence that SD will have a better year with the bats than!!!
Huff, at his worst, is as good as Ishikawa. That’s what people are neglecting about this signing. It also leaves us money to sign Kiko Calero or Chan Ho Park. There were only two “real” bats this offseason, and both of them were overpriced. At least Sabean and the FO is being realistic about the sort of production they can expect from these signings, which they haven’t done in the past. Randy Winn was our starting #5 hitter last season and hit 2 home runs. DeRosa, by default, is a better fit.
I hope Randy Winn and his 2 homers and 16 steals sign in Japan
If you want a little speed and great defense…Winn should be your horse.
I get your point, but I don’t see Huff being better than Garko/Ishikawa was last year (Even though Garko was somewhat of a dud). Winn didn’t hit bombs last year but played solid D in your OF. You also lost Molina, who next to Pablo was your only source of power. I think you substituted a little extra pop (5-10 more HR) for defense. When you add in Molina going elsewhere, I just think you have less power than you did last year. Derosa seems to find a way to miss a few weeks every year as well. If anything, I would think a Jermaine Dye type would make more sense for you guys than us. Again, your pitching is awesome, but the bats are lacking unless Rowand lives up to his contract and Posey breaks out. Just my two cents. LOVE your pitching though!
It’s also all that we can afford if he truly would be willing to play in SD for $3M
Ya why not just sign a guy because his name is Dye, we did that last year with Cliff Floyd….it worked out really well j/k While we are at it lets sign Jim Thome and Rick Ankiel and completely go against what Hoyer said he is trying to do….
You know what if anything this has brought about the most Padre talk in recent weeks… I think we were in dire need of something to discuss
haha…I absolutely agree with that Blanks! Padres fans are obviously antsy…and excited!
Or a reality check lol
I agree I was dying for any news!
Finally some promising news for Padres fans, even if it is only a rumor at this point. There are not any better RH power bats available in FA currently so this makes all of the sense in the world for our team to finally get some right handed protection for Adrian, although Dye’s defense is clearly not great. If this deal gets done for anywhere close to $3mill, then our offseason of waiting thus far has been rewarded with some great value. With such a cheap price tag (if it gets done), we also leave us the option of adding more offense at 2B with Orlando Hudson or Felipe Lopez. Or maybe even a surprise value signing of one of the injury risk pitcher options in Sheets or Bedard, or perhaps Garland in the alternative. However, I will reserve such lofty ambitions for the club until we get this first step of signing Dye completed.If these types of “lurking-in-the-bushes waiting to pounce” on short-term value signings represents the new “strategic direction” of the Padres, then I really like it. It would be much better than last season’s marginal signings Cliff Floyd, Eckstein, & Blanco.Of course this “patient value strategy” also works well with a “developing from within” approach, allowing both approaches to improve the club simultaneously.
Anyone remember that at bat last year that Cliff Floyd swung so hard he almost fell down from it? I think it was in Seattle playing DH? Man I wish we had his contract money back and the 9 mil we paid Giles…..
One other thing I think is kinda cool, Imagine if we would have had a productive bat/glove in the lineup last year taking the spot of Giles… we waited sooooo long for him to turn it around….couple foul homeruns in NY and I think he lost all his confidence/swing.
Anyhow take him out of the equitation and our first half could have been alot different..for gods sake P Mac could have posted better numbers
All this talk of Jermaine Dye being “atrocious” and a liability is ridiculous. I watched about sixty percent of his games last year and I didnt see that at all. Sure he is old but if Manny Ramirez can play the outfield in the National League then JD can for sure. I think Petco will be a challenge due to its size but he is going to play half his games elsewhere.
I think the ideal solution to their problem would be to package Heath Bell and Kevin Kouzmanoff to a team that needs a third baseman and a closer ( St Louis Cardinals) for prospects. Possibly Brayan Anderson and a couple pitchers. Move Headley to third and put Blanks in LF.
1B Adrian Gonzalez
2B David Eckstein
3B Chase Headley
SS Everth Cabrera
LF Kyle Blanks
CF Will Venable/ Tony Gwynn Jr
RF Jermaine Dye
C Nick Hundley
The thing is, Aany team would take Manny’s defense with the offense he provides.
Kouz for Dye is a horrible deal for the Padres. The 3B should be able to bring back more.
Dye is a free agent!
It is not a trade offer, Jermaine Dye is a free-agent…may want to re-read the post…
You’re right. The idea is similar…trading him to free up for Dye doesn’t improve them.
National League teams—- stay away from Jermaine Dye!! His UZR was the worst of any outfielder in baseball last year.
yeah especially if a NL team is looking at his as a DH (wtf)? “platoon/backup/DH”?
Well, they do need a solid DH option during Interleague Play, but yeah, very strange– agreed. That was the first thing I thought of when I read it too.
Please Pads,sign Dye….so Hendry can’t!!
“Another mild possibility for Dye is the Cubs. The Chicago Tribune’s Paul Sullivan says they’re looking at him for a platoon/backup/DH role.”
First off I love Jermaine Dye. As a Sox fan, I appreciate all he did for the south side and we prolly wouldnt have won a world series without him. The sox should pick him up as a DH but that is here nor there. As a fit for the Cubs, it just doesnt make any sense which is prolly why Jim Hendry is considering it. Dye cant play defense and his average tanked towards the end of the year. So he would be a perfect compliment to soriano (Sarcasm). With the Marlon Byrd signing the cubs are already right handed heavy with fukudome as the only lefty in the lineup as an everyday player. They need something else and dye isnt it.
I think it makes more sense for Hendry to resign Johnson over Dye. At least Johnson can play all three outfield positions and can run after a ball. Both are good clubhouse guys, but Dye is a DH.
I agree that Johnson is a much more attractive option as a defender and because of his versatility. But here’s a thought I had…lemme know what you think…
Assuming we’ll sign one reserve OF’er at best I think the Cubs have two alternatives:
1) Sign Reed Johnson to back up all OF positions and platoon with Fukudome. This would mean that the Cubs would keep the winner of the Hoffpauir/Snyder/LaHair spring training cage match for the other reserve OF position
2) Sign someone like Dye, Nady, etc. to platoon with Fukudome at right and back up Soriano, then keep Fuld as a defensive replacement.
I like the idea of bringing back Reed Johnson if we can get another FA outfielder to be a better bat long term when Soriano gets hurt. The only thing I don’t like about Johnson is that it likely means that Hoffpauir becomes our OF “power” bat off the bench. If Soriano goes down, we’re looking at a weird musical chairs out there. Hoffpauir would replace him in left against righties and possibly platoon with Johnson…but now Fukudome doesn’t have a righty platoon partner unless you move Jeff Baker out there, meaning Blanco must start against lefties at 2b. So the lineup the Cubs will field in the even of a Soriano injury would have Hoffpauir against righties… and against lefties, the lineup would include Reed Johnson, Jeff Baker and Andres Blanco. Neither is something I’d like to see on a long term basis.
I like Johnson but my thought is that if the Cubs do bring him back, they’ll need to bring in a bigger bat than Hoffpauir to provide insurance for a Soriano injury. And I think it’s a stretch to think the Cubs will bring in two bats…even though it’s what they should do!
I guess my biggest concern is not so much the thought of adding Dye, it is keeping other current bench players. If Dye came along AND another outfield type, I would welcome that thought. If it’s Dye with Hoffpauir and Co. that makes for a poor bench, other than Dye’s deep ball/gap threat. Now if Hendry can clear a couple spots and bring along Dye and someone else, great. It does not have to be Johnson. I brought him up because the Cubs want an outfield bench type and he can play all outfield spots.
Can not agree, at all (and basically for all the reason Crunchy said while this page was refreshing for me)
Dye is the Pinch Hit threat the team desperately needs. Johnson isnt.
Dye is the fulltimer who doesnt look out of place in a lineup when replacing a hurt Sorinao. Johnson isnt
Dye might be a poor defending OF, but he is replacing Hoffpauir (or more unlikely, but possibly, LaHair/Snyder)
Soriano, Byrd and Dye — Oh my!
I like this outfield if the Cubs are going to join a 16 inch softball league, provided we get to play someone at short center too. It would also help Soriano and Dye’s declining bat speed.
Dye first half last year was one of the best in baseball, should of made the all star team.. I think his second half slump was because the Sox didn’t make an extension offer, he didn’t make the all star team, and felt like he was being pushed out the door with Rios. In the five years with the White Sox, his only slumps came after waiting on a contract. His fielding isn’t the greatest, and he was the Sox best and most clutch hitter from 2005-2009. He deserves a starting job, and I wouldn’t mind seeing him back on the Sox.
why? you can get a lefty bat with similar production at around the same price point (Thome, Branyan, etc.) if he returns to the Sox, Ozzie will use him in the OF at times…this is unacceptable at this point in his career.
In a separate article from the same date, Sullivan also mentions Xavier Nady although it seems to be more his speculation than anything else. Cub Asst GM Randy Bush also said that they’d look at Reed Johnson again after he has looked at other possibilities.The best news about all of this is that it’s the first time we’ve heard the Cubs connected with acquiring any kind of OF depth. Something they obviously need more than relief pitching. If nothing else, at least they’re acknowledging the need. As a Cub fan, I consider that progress!
“The best news about all of this is that it’s the first time we’ve heard the Cubs connected with acquiring any kind of OF depth. Something they obviously need more than relief pitching.”
As far as Johnson, he was on one of the sport talk shows back in Nov. He said that he and Hendry had an honest conversation. Hendry told him to look for a better offer than he could give and see what happens about joining back up if nothing else happens. Johnson is a fan favorite. I am realistic about his abilities though. Between he and Dye, I would rather see Johnson due to his ability to play all three OF spots and being better defensively than Dye. I think the power Dye might bring would not make up for the double switches and minus defensive/speed. Although, Johnson is not a gold glover or power guy, he can do a little of everything and nothing great…typical back up. Hendry has options and hopefully makes a solid choice. I wish he would send a couple of these current bench guys elsewhere just to clear another spot to sign a couple bench guys and forget money to the pen. Maybe Hendry has Maddux on standby to give Lou an inning when needed. Ha! Wait, thinking about it now. That could be a better option than Silva. Anyway…
“Between he and Dye, I would rather see Johnson due to his ability to play all three OF spots and being better defensively than Dye.”But you seem to be looking at it the wrong way. The difference is in thisA) Fuld / Dye (with Fontenot/Blanco/Hill)B) Johnson / Hoffpauir (with Fontenot/Blanco/Hill)Now, looking at those two, I go with A all day long. Johnson is only a small upgrade to Fuld, but Dye is a tremendous upgrade to Hoff.
Dye does serve the threat off the bench/spot start that the others, including Johnson would not serve. The heart of my thinking is Hendry has too many weak hitting bench players. My hope is one or two of those guys get traded for whatever minor type comes back. Then clears a spot to sign someone who can play a few spots and hit better than Fuld or Hoffpauir. I will agree having the thought of Dye replacing Soriano would be a better option than Johnson. No one would notice the defensive drop off between Soriano or Dye. I brought up Johnson because he can play all three spots. My wish would be a bench bat like Dye AND another decent, bench player.
“My hope is one or two of those guys get traded for whatever minor type comes back. Then clears a spot to sign someone who can play a few spots and hit better than Fuld or Hoffpauir.”
I dont disagree with the theory of what you are saying, but execution of such is also probably extremely unlikely. We dont have payroll to add real solid options even if real solid options were even available at this time. Take a look at the remaining FA market, it isnt exactly popping with the types of players we would be hoping for. DH types or fielders with little to no hitting ability is about all thats available for our needs.
Add to that, trading players to make room likely isnt going to be easy when the players we would be pushing (Fontenot and Baker) are in arbitration and likely to make as much, if not more, then what similar limited value guys are making off the free agent market now.
Moot conversation. Dye is not going to any team as a platoon/bench/pinch anything. If he can find an NL team dumb enough to give him a starting OF slot, he’ll sign, else he’ll be a DH/4th OF.
You dont know that. There are more DH types then openings right now, and none of them are getting any interest from clubs. And most teams are already pushing their spending limits, lowering the possibilities even more. Some of these types will have to settle for lower salary bench roles, its inevitable.
I’m pretty sure Maddux can still outpitch Silva. He may not even have to change out of his business attire!
A lot of what you say about Hendry and his talks with Johnson reinforces my thoughts about Hendry. He’s a people person…100%. He’s a good guy. Unfortunately that only takes you so far as a GM. He’s out there against guys who take a much cooler, analytical approach and able to make decision based on reason rather than personal ties. Whatever happens to him, I hope he gets a job somewhere that better suits his strengths.
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on our thoughts about bringing back Johnson. I’m all for bringing him back if we can get a bigger bat to pair with him. But, even if the Cubs do unexpectedly decide to get 2 bench OF’ers, that would reduce Johnson’s role even more and, ironically, make it even less likely he’d re-sign since he can get a bigger role somewhere else.
“I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on our thoughts about bringing back Johnson. I’m all for bringing him back if we can get a bigger bat to pair with him. But, even if the Cubs do unexpectedly decide to get 2 bench OF’ers, that would reduce Johnson’s role even more and, ironically, make it even less likely he’d re-sign since he can get a bigger role somewhere else.”
Good point in Johnson’s role being reduced further. The whole reason Hendry let him look was because Johnson wanted more playing time/money. Having Dye around would make no sense for Johnson to return. I forgot about that aspect. I have to change my mind now on Johnson returning if it means getting Dye. Again, Johnson was a name that popped up. I see what you and Susysman are saying. I still would want a defensive player that could hit a little better than Fuld. I know we can’t have an ideal bench, so I guess I could live with a Dye/Fuld situation out there. This, plus we can’t have another year featuring Hoffpauir as our power off the bench. That alone makes me change my mind in favor of a bat like Dye.
Not the ideal situation, but probably the best we can hope for and certainly better than what we have now. I think we all would agree that it’s still not perfect. Our lefty pinch-hitting corps (Fontenot, Hill, Blanco, and Fuld) will still be a pretty sorry group!
I actually like the idea of the cubs signing Dye. Yes his defense is suspect but insurance is the key here. It would be great to have some1 with his power coming off the bench when we need a longball. Fukudome and Soriano are both streaky so we could play the hot hand, and he could spell Derek at first when he needs an occasional day off. Maybe with Rudy coaching him we could keep his bat consistent all year to. If we could get him for say 3 mill I say go for it. Plus if we falter I’m sure we could get some decent prospects at the trade deadline from an AL team that needs a dh.
Don’t get me wrong…I wouldn’t mind Dye as insurance but that OF defense would be ugly. As it stands right now, our insurance is Micah Hoffpauir. His defense is no better and he’s not the hitter that Dye is. And if Dye has to fill in for Soriano’s annual injury, it’s not like he’ll be replacing a defensive stalwart anyway! Overall, it’s an upgrade and I’d take it if it were cheap. Maybe Dye would like to keep his family here in Chicago and give the Cubs a hometown discount.
WooHoo!!! Hendry finally woke up!Dye would be a nice upgrade to our bench if we are able to get him on the cheap. His bat is a tremendous upgrade over what we have on the pine already. And although his defense is horrible, he would be replacing Hoffpauir who isnt exactly Mays out there himself. Soriano / Byrd / Fukudome / Byrd / Fuld (who ideally is still replaced with Johnson or Winn)Looking better! And I dont hate a Dye / Byrd / Fukudome OF when Soriano goes down. Well, I mean, I dont like it – but its better then the Hoffpauir / Byrd / Fukudome alternative
“Fuld (who ideally is still replaced with Johnson or Winn)”
I think “ideally” is the key word here. I’ll be happy if the Cubs do get one big bat. I don’t think they are going to get a second bench upgrade…and here’s a twist; I’m willing to give Hendry a pass on that one. Here’s why: I don’t think they can get two even if they wanted to. Let’s say they sign Dye. He’s likely the first option to platoon with Fukudome and also to play full time in the event of an injury to either Soriano or Fukudome. If you’re Randy Winn or Reed Johnson, why would you sign for peanuts to be a 5th outfielder/defensive replacement when you can sign for peanuts somewhere else and be the 4th outfielder/platoon partner? Johnson could even get that role with the Yanks; who also give him a much better chance to win than the Cubs. I would think Winn could get a similar role somewere else too. These guys are veterans who’ll want a more significant role. Unfortunately for the Cubs it’s probably an either/or situation when it comes to Dye or Johnson or Winn. And in that scenario, I think we both agree that Dye is the best option and we can live with Fuld as a 5th OF’er/defensive replacement/pinch runner type.
I’m a cubs fan but even that stupid front office isn’t going to sign a washed up player like Dye. Last I checked there is no DH in the National league.
I disagree about the NL not having the DH. The Cubs alone have 2 DH’s in Soriano and Hoffpauir. They just choose to play them in the outfield.
Putting Dye out there in case Soriano gets hurt won’t be much of a change defensively. Now, when the Cubs throw out an OF of Soriano, Byrd, and Dye, I agree that it will be scary for us and amusing for opposing fans, but playing Dye on a limited bases in RF (in a platoon with Fukudome) reduces the exposure out there. On a limited basis we can get by with it and I think Dye’s bat, both in a platoon role and as a legitimate replacement for Soriano if he gets hurt, makes up for his awful defense.
This is ironic considering our priority number 1 for the offseason was trading the psychopathic DH we signed to a 3 year deal last offseason.
Anyway, again, Dye would replace Hoffpauir. If you consider Dye nothing more then a DH, then the same holds true for Micah.
That sums it up pretty well. Last year we signed a DH to start everyday in RF and turn a good RF’er into a terrible CF’er. With Dye, at least you’re only replacing one DH type on the bench (Hoffpauir) with another DH type — except with the all important difference that Dye is actually capable of hitting like a DH. I saw that 2010 projections have him at around an .800 OPS and between .460/.470 slugging pct (CHONE’s line being the most conservative at .332/.461/.793). I’d easily take that for a bat off the bench and as someone who can replace Soriano when he gets hurt.
sorry to break all the bosox fans hearts but the signing of beltre ended any and all thought of adrian going to them. WHy would the bo sox trade for a 1st basemen when they currently have 2 maybe 4 if you count ortiz and lowel as guys that can play first. JD to petco would not be that bad..im a die hard wsox fan and his defence really isnt that bad..he miss read a few balls and everyone says he is horrible in the outfield. HE does have a cannon and come one if manny can play the OF everyday in LA JD can play ever day in petco…I would say the pads should sign him on the cheap for a 1 year deal with a second year option. give gonzo some protection
and about the cubs. they didnt have any money to keep harden they basically swapped money for an even worse player in the bradley/ silvia deal and they are connected to sheets and Dye? they have a 140 million dollar pay roll with old over rated players there is no way they make big moves like dye or sheets…plus if they sign dye that means they move koske to Cf and he was horrible there the last few years
we signed byrd to play center, so kosuke would stay in right and dye would be a backup to the corner outfield spots and first base.
We got $9M in the bradley deal. Byrd is only making $3M this year so we should have $6M left to spend.
I like the Dye rumors. He’s still got some pop and would be a great addition to this outfield.
We dont get all 9 MM in 2009 (we get 5.5 in 2010 and 3.5 in 2011), and we have to pay Silva with that money as well (which Bradley only cost 9 and 11 over the seasons where Silva makes 11.5 in 2010 and 2011, )so add it up(2010)9 MM saved from Bradley being removed5.5 MM cash from deal= 14.5 MM to work with11.5 MM going to Silva3 MM going to Byrd= 14.5 MM costEnd results, 0 dollarsBoy that went fast, didnt it. The real cash Hendry has to play with (if he has any) wont be known until he settles the 8 arbitration cases we have (Baker, Fontenot, Gorzelanny, Guzman, Hill, Marmol, Marshall and Theriot).Right now, there is about 122 MM committed to 11 players (and two previous commitments), the 8 arbitration cases and the need to pay the other 6 roster spots (currently Wells, Soto, Fuld, Hoffpauir, Blanco and Parisi). Estimating the 6 controlled spots to be around a 500K average, that gives about 125 MM and those 8 pesky arbitration cases.
We dont get all 9 MM in 2009 (we get 5.5 in 2010 and 3.5 in 2011), and we have to pay Silva with that money as well (which Bradley only cost 9 and 11 over the seasons where Silva makes 11.5 in 2010 and 2011, )so add it up(2010)9 MM saved from Bradley being removed5.5 MM cash from deal= 14.5 MM to work with11.5 MM going to Silva3 MM going to Byrd= 14.5 MM costEnd results, 0 dollarsBoy that went fast, didnt it. The real cash Hendry has to play with (if he has any) wont be known until he settles the 8 arbitration cases we have (Baker, Fontenot, Gorzelanny, Guzman, Hill, Marmol, Marshall and Theriot).Right now, there is about 122 MM committed to 11 players (and two previous commitments), the 8 arbitration cases and the need to pay the other 6 roster spots (currently Wells, Soto, Fuld, Hoffpauir, Blanco and Parisi). Estimating the 6 controlled spots to be around a 500K average, that gives about 125 MM and those 8 pesky arbitration cases.
We got $9M in the bradley deal. Byrd is only making $3M this year so we should have $6M left to spend.
I like the Dye rumors. He’s still got some pop and would be a great addition to this outfield.
I would love to see the cubs sign dye. He’s a power bat that could come off the bench, and give soriano, lee, and fukudome a rest…which could lead to as much playing time as a regular starter. PLUS his numbers are better than fukudome’s and soriano’s last year, and we don’t know if sorianos gonna rebound from his poor season last year. also Dye’s defense cant be any worse than sorianos, so why not sign him to a cheap one year deal and see how the season goes?
I would prefer the cubs put that money towards signing O Hudson, especially if his price falls. Why wouldn’t you rather spend that money on an everyday player than on the bench. Adding an everyday player makes your bench better anyway, just by pushing the one’s that are supposedly everyday players now to the bench.
If nothing else, I just wish Hendry would come up with some kind of plan for this offseason, because right now I have heard that our needs included CF, Relief, and possibly a 2nd baseman…
We added Byrd, a “starter” in Silva, and we are looking at Sheets and Dye? I thought the reason we let Harden leave was because we had enough starting pitching. Don’t get me wrong, I would like to add Sheets, but I would much prefer adding Orlando and moving Baker/Font to the bench for good. Especially if Hudson costs less than Sheets.
And I don’t care about the moving Theriot theory… that’s just a theory until it pans out. Plus, theriot played 5 different positions for the cubs when he first came up, we could find him his ABs.
Nobody is claiming Dye reminds us of Roberto Clemente in right field. However, he is better than anybody else the Cubs have coming off the bench, as of now. The Cubs need hitting in the worst way. Sam Fuld can be the late inning defensive replacement in the outfield. Having Dye start a game or two per week and pinch hitting on the other days would be fine with me.
you don’t get it. he’s so bad at fielding, he erases anything he can do with the bat at this point in his career—he’s THAT bad.
fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/highs-and-lows-of-uz…
You act as though somehow Hoffpauir provides a positive.
Replacing Hoffpauir with Dye = upgrade. Defense is about the same, bat is extreme improvement.
yankees got him i have heard from several sources