The Mets will acquire Gary Matthews Jr. and cash from the Angels for Brian Stokes. Matthews, who receives $500K for being traded, is set to make $11MM in 2010 and $12MM in 2011. The Angels will pick up all but $2MM of the $23.5MM remaining on the deal.
Matthews joined the Angels before the 2007 season, signing a $50MM deal. He leaves without much fanfare, as he's coming off a season in which he combined poor defense with a .250/.336/.361 line. That's far from the .866 OPS he posted in his 2006 walk year.
The 30-year-old Stokes allowed 72 hits and 38 walks in 70.1 innings last year, striking out 45 for a 3.97 ERA.
Jon Heyman of SI.com first reported the deal. Heyman, Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports and ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick followed up with details, all via Twitter.
bye bye Louie wish you well i for one never disliked Luis Castillo . But for the best for him to move on is best for all.
Too bad he’s not going anywhere, though.
I was thinking Oliver Perez, personally. But if they’re picking up significant salary, maybe not…
i hope its for Louie so they can go out and finally sign Hudson.
dont they have aybar and izturis and kendrick for up the middle options?
yes. they don’t need castillo. we’re still stuck with him and a middling 4th outfielder. makes no sense to me. we have pagan, unless he’s being traded. why use any dollars on anything besides pitching right now?
It doesn’t seem like it’s significant dollars (with the Angels picking up the vast majority of the contract)
With The Angels Paying the Mets $2 million dollars of a remaining $23 million contract how does that become the Vast Majority?
It says “all but” $2 Million.
Exactly, thank you
wow. wonder who the trade is for and how much the angels pick up
It’s for some relief pitcher, Stokes. The Mets get Matthews AND $21.5 million to cover all but 2 million left on his contract. I think this is a great deal, even though I am a huge Braves fan
HAHAHAHA
FIRE MINAYA!
Gary Matthews JR. aint bad, but the mets need pitching help more than anythig. granted i suppose they do have insurance now considering whats going on with Beltran
No, he’s awful. He’s been a -1.1 WAR over the past three seasons, a -1.6 over the past two. He is below replacement level. He’s terrible terrible terrible.
lol, sabr
Wait, I’m confused. Is he a starter or a reliever?
Outfielder
Yes, I am well aware of that. My point was that this is not the type of deal we need to be focusing on right now. I guess we will now trade Maine for Hart and have even less pitching and a crowded outfield.
I know Citi’s OF is huge, but you cant put 6 guys out there at once!
As a Braves fan I am delighted.
calm down. you have no idea how much money the mets are getting and who they gave up to get him. If its castillo or perez then it could be a good deal.
It doesn’t matter. GMJ can not hit OR field. He’s a useless player. Castillo is an above average player no matter how much grief the Post gives him.
I can vouch and say that GMJ isn’t very good. However, for 2 million or less, he’s not THAT bad. Its the fact that he can’t do anything good or great. Everything he does is average to below average.
This is good for the Mets. Speed with their outfield with Beltran out.
As a Twins fan, all I have to say is we’ve won a division title and forced a 163rd game in the two seasons since you forced your way out of here, Johan.
Yeah, all Santana got was a heap of cash, a ton of pressure and a gigantic mess of a franchise to try and keep afloat.
If he stayed with the Twins he would have won more but made less.
We Braves fans have been pooling our money to bribe the Mets ownership to keep Minaya employed.
Like I said in the post about the rumor, I was fully expecting to be underwhelmed. And the Mets did not disappoint in underwhelming me.
Well, that’s something at least. You gotta maintain your standards…
:-/
Wow this is the happiest day in my Angels fan life. REJOICE!
Agreed! Hallelujah. I heard we’re getting tickets to an off-off-off broadway show and some used Game balls from the subway series last year in return.
I say – – GOOD JOB Reagins!
Ugh, leave it to Manaya to help other teams erase their terrible signings…
we will be paying 2 mill for 2 years thats twice as long as Alex Cora for the same money
He has power.. Last year in Seattle (might have been two years ago) hit 4 HR’s at the game i was at. Deepest part of Safeco field to. His defense is decent he knows what he’s doing and has decent speed. I don’t know where you get his defense and hitting are bad.
never hit 4 jacks in a game for the halo’s. it must have been 4 years ago when you was roiding up.
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=153&positi…
stokes..
If true I’m officially turning in my Mets fandom until Minaya is fired. I am now a free agent.
Hey bro, I know it’s only a “rental” for fandom, but you can join the Brewer’s band wagon if you’d like…. WE DRINK BEER AND HIT THE BALL REALLY FAR!!!
told ya.. guess your gonna hit the FA market? lol
You have been picked up by the Yankees for 30 million per year.
Cursed Yankees. They always get everything
You still got other problems after Omar. They’re called “Fred” & “Jeff.”
Heyman just came on WFAN and said Castillo is not involved in the Matthews deal.
Of course not! That would be too good to be true. This is going to end up being another Mets like deal. The one to make fans believe that Minaya is doing something.
Angels get: Brian Stokes
Reds get: Angel Pagan
Mets get: Gary Matthews, Jr., Bronson Arroyo & Ramon Hernandez
finally got rid of him. no way angels pay and get back perez or castillo. prob going to be mid to low level prospects
Great day to be an Angels fan! The only downside now is that they will probably re-sign Scoiscia’s man-crush Robb Quinlan.
I hope he’s juicing again.
I honestly can’t make an intelligent statement about this until I find out exactly how much money the Mets are taking on and what they gave to acquire him. This could either be really good or extremely horrible for the Mets. Sadly, I’m leaning towards horrible.
If I’m a Halos fan, I couldn’t be more excited.
I just heard that the deal is larger and that it has other players and might be a 3-team deal with Cincy.
Where did you hear that, phavio?
It’s just Metsblog, but it makes much more sense for the Mets if Matthews is not the center-piece of the deal.
Gary does not have the D for CF in Citi-Field and that will hopefully only be a 1 month gig anyway. If Omar think Matthews is a big offensive upgrade over Pagan I don’t see that either.
…the people i talk with, in the organization and connected to the team, are being very quiet, which leads me to believe there is more to this deal than just the Mets getting matthews…
Updated at 10:48 am:
Heyman said on WFAN, according to an AL source, the Angels are not getting Luis Castillo. Instead, he speculates a low-level minor-leaguer or relief pitcher will go from the Mets to Anaheim.
Updated at 10:50 am:
…there are people in baseball who believe this must be part of a three-team deal, maybe eventually leading to some sort of move with the Reds, and Orlando Hudson, but that is all speculation…
well if the mets arent getting harrang/arroyo as well, its useless
Matt Cerrone posted it on metsblog @ 10:50 AM
Yeah, except it’s not.
Angels get: Brian Stokes
Mets get: GMJ, $21.5 million
The angels finally cutting ties with one of the worst FA signings in history, arguably of course, 12 mill isn’t much now, but that was alot when he signed the deal.
Gary Gaetti and Doug Corbett were worse FA signings for the Angels.
Terrible. Sure, the Mets needed someone in center field for at least the first month (and more likely two), but GMJ is about the worst possible option. His bat is pathetic, his glove is bad, and his contract is an albatross, even if this year is being picked up.
Why didn’t they just sign Randy Winn, who is somewhat better (though still not great), who plays as a fourth outfielder when Beltran returns (or a right fielder when Francoeur busts), and who would have cost only money?
Oh, yeah. ‘Cause Omar has exactly zero ability as a GM.
They already have Pagan to play CF and he’s way more valuable than GMJ
Let’s be real — GMJ at $2m/yr (assuming Angels are taking $20/24mil) is not the worst option in the world for a bat off the bench…he provides a decent power option (something the Mets are lacking right now — Cora? Thole? Reed? Tatis?). Frankly, if he outperforms Francouer, they can shift him to right field. This is not that bad of a deal.
What power? He peaked at 19 HR, with 17 and 18 flanking it; his last two seasons, he has produced a total of 12 HR in 742 AB (SLG .357 and .361). He’s not a power guy, he’s not a speed guy any more (12 SB last two seasons combined), and his glove is no great shakes. If they decide they want to move him, that contract is going to weigh them down like an oversized anchor.
This is an atrocious deal, regardless of how little they give up. A used, losing Lotto ticket is twice as much as Matthews is worth.
What option to play CF was out there that was better, at $2-3mil per year? Ankiel, probably the best option left on the table, wanted to play full-time — the Mets needed someone who can fill in adequately for 5 weeks. Pagan certainly isn’t the answer. GMJ might be, just by the fact no other options were out there. (disclosure — i strongly dislike gmj)
Pagan was a 2.8 WAR player last season with a UZR/150 of 11.3. He’s better
than Franceour, GMJ and Ankiel.
Pagan has never had a full healthy season, and I think that many of us would be shocked if he were to replicate the success he had — I’m all for him being a 2.8 WAR player again, I just think he is closer to a 1.5 WAR. the sample size of his success is terribly small.
Even if Pagan regressed to a 1.5 WAR, he’s still light years better than GMJ
who has put up -0.8 in each of the last two seasons.
I don’t understand your logic, Chris. Pagan has been roughly 0.5 WAR in his career. Projections have him 1.5 WAR in 2010. Either way, he hits enough to hold down the fort and is a plus defender. He’s getting paid peanuts and most importantly, he’s already on your team. He literally costs you no extra money or prospects.
Contrast to GMJ. His average has been worse than Pagan, his SB (total and percentage wise) have been worse than Pagan, he’s been an atrocious defender the past two years and a mediocre one the year before, he’s going to cost you SOMETHING (hopefully not even the $2-3MM you’re suggesting) plus a prospect or two, he’s been below replacement level for two years and is projected to be below once again. And for what? Having a little extra power?
If you don’t consider Angel Pagan the answer to fill in for a month or two, I respect that. But then neither is GMJ.
As I mention elsewhere, I like Randy Winn as a fill-in and then a fourth outfielder. He would probably take 1 year, $3 mil, and could play three games a week after the first month or two. Or fill in for Francoeur when he inevitably busts. He’d cost only money, and probably not need a multiyear deal.
Omar can’t leave soon enough.
The hilarity of the situation is that we’re arguing who is better – Winn, Podsednik, Pagan, etc – this could be a long season if Beltran doesn’t get healthy soon.
Typical Mets bonehead maneuver. He’s 35, he can’t hit and has bad wheels. They don’t need this bum! At this point, why not just let Pagan play center until Beltran comes back? Makes no sense, but that’s Omar. They better sign Sheets!
i read on wfan that….the Angels will be paying the vast portion of that money. Matthews also gets $500,000 for being traded.
i guess that’s one positive lol i wanna know who they gave up though
why do this you could have ankiel for 2 months and 3 million no way angels are taking on 8 million.this is another disaster for the mets if castillo or perez was in it i would be down. but there not.omar is really really bad..
Wow, the Mets somehow managed to get an outfielder even less productive than Jeff Francouer.
okayy francouer hit over 300 as a met with 11 homeruns. go look up gmj numbers and explain to me how those numbers are better>
Francouer is not a good player. He got hot for a month. Big deal. He is
nothing more than a replacement level player.
he did well while injuried surrounded by no protection. hes also young and able to grow unlike gmj.
Reading comprehension is not your forte, is it? I said Matthews is worse than Francouer.
i read on wfan that..the Angels will be paying the vast portion of that money. Matthews also gets $500,000 for being traded.
that’s one positive lol. i wanna know who they gave up.
Hmm, this seems like a mistake on both ends. Why would the Angels eat up so much money for nothing. why would the mets take on even half of that contract? Couldn’t they have locked up Damon for 2 years 6 mil? Not sure that was an option, but I would prefer that if I were a Mets fan.
I was under the impression that GMJ wanted to go somewhere where he would play significant time. Once Beltran Returns, with an outfield of Beltran, Bay and Francoeur and Pagan already on the bench where is GMJ going to be playing.
Come June GMJ may be sulking
Maybe the ANGELS can persue Johnny Damon now with an outfield opening…
I just can’t believe the angels found a take for GMJ.
When all else fails try the mets.
ala Jeff Failcouer and the 5 million he’s making this year.
GMJ has been a huge mistake. No question about it. Here is what I will say in his defense.– When given regular playing time he can be a slightly below LA CF’er. He kills you when he plays sparingly. If healthy, there are worse options out there.– He is versatile. I know the advanced metrics don’t love his defense. But, if you watch him he seems to do a solid job with the glove. His range is just limited.– This deal all comes down to how much money/bad contracts are being swapped. If the Mets are paying the equivalent of $2m or less/year then I think the deal is good for the Mets. If the dollars are higher then it is a win for the Angels.
This deal is terrible, and supposedly Castillo isn’t even in it. WTF? I don’t care if LA ate ALL of his salary, GMJ is absolutely awful. I much rather have Pagan manning CF for a month or 2.
I really hope there is more to this deal than whats been confirmed… Omar Minaya is a pretty weak GM, but he can’t be THIS bad… could he?
The only way this will work is if GMJ was traded for Castillo. This way GMJ would play 1B and Murphy can move back to his natural postion at 2B.
Murphy has played all of 17 games at 2B, all of which were at AA. GMJ has never played first.
Uh the guy isn’t even worth a roster spot, let alone “only 2M/yr”
I agree, it’s not the worst option but they really don’t need this guy. What, for another bat off the bench? He’s 35, coming off knee surgery! At this point, wouldn’t you rather see Pagan play center until Beltran comes back? They need pitching! They better sign Sheets!
This was a stupid sign for the Angels a few years ago, and it played out as expected. Mathews Jr had had 1 good year. He is not his daddy. Actually I like this for the Mets. It is a low-risk move considering the Angels are going to bear the brunt of their mistake, as they should. Mets still playing catch-up to the Marlins and Braves for runner-up to my Phils
The Mets are a Jose Guillen away from the worst OF in baseball.
Completely useless move.
Outside of the Orioles, Dodgers, and maybe the Yankees, I can’t think of any team that has a better LF-CF-RF combo than the Mets (Bay, Beltran, Francouer/F-Mart/GMJ)
Their problem won’t be the offense this year…if anything, it will be the pitching.
Holliday, Rasmus, and Ludwick say hi.
We need another steady OF with Beltran down and if Angels east his $$$ it’s a good move… but why can’t we dump Castillo?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You still have Rivera, Hunter, Abreu and Matsui.
Wow. This is a great deal for the Angels. However, wow I am really glad I’m not a Mets fan. All they are doing are adding more old guys with albatrosses for salaries (although GMJ is basically being paid by the Angels). I don’t see where he fits in at all, and he doesn’t seem to fill any of their needs. Very strange trade for the Mets.
Mathews is a perfect 4th OF an insurance for Beltran/Pagan.
GMJ is worse than what you would expect from some random 4OF from your AAA squad or found on waivers. That is opposite of perfect.
I’m beginning to wonder if the Mets can even spell “pitching,” much less obtain it.
They continue to be just a god awful team, but getting him for almost free is not to bad, he just will do nothing to help the team out and add to the list of injured players they will have.
I’m not convinced Omar is going to settle on Pagan/Matthews as a viable CF option…hoping that something else is in play.
If the Angels are not pick up at less 20mm this is a bad move by the Mets. GMJ is at best a 5th outfielder. If Perez or Castillo are not in the deal then this is by far a by move. They should be trying to bring in Sheets, Garland.. etc… they need pitching pitching pitching!!!!… IDK but i dont trust perez, pelfray, maine.
Why would the Mets trade away Oliver Perez when they’re looking for starting pitching. Stupid. They don’t need to unload their bad contracts if they’re not taking on one ($2m/ is not a bad contract).
this can’t be all to this deal if it is omar should b fired! Why would mathews play over pegan while betlran is hurt?Pegans younger better can hit and cost cheaper.I had no problem with pegan till beltran got better. Terrbile deal if the mets don’t get a starter (doesn’t have to be lights out) r don;t move luis castillo really bad move.
I’m wondering if Minaya thinks he’s a better player than Angel Pagan? If so, he needs to be slapped in the face.
Bad contracts like Pierre, Silva, Bradley, Mathews, Byrnes have all been dumped or eaten.. so why can’t we get rid of Castillo off a good year???? C’mon upgrade the position already
thats because we feel like the team to eat all those contracts
After the Beltran injury situation was revealed, the Mets first should have locked up Sheets to inspire some confidence in the fanbase by saying we think we have two of the top starters in baseball in Johan and Sheets.
That move would have given their fans a glimmer of hope. Then you could pull off the salary dump for Matthews if he was a player they felt they had to have.
Instead, they trade for Matthews which appears to be another head scratcher move and then when/if they sign Sheets, the fans are already up in arms over Matthews that the Sheets signing will be met with derision.
They just seem to do thing backwards. It’s not surprising to me since whenever I’ve seen Omar in public he seems to talk backwards.
Getting Matthews and the Angels paying his salary isn’t a bad deal. I have a feeling the Mets are scared that Beltran might be out longer than advertised and they also want some Francouer insurance as his offensive numbers aren’t exactly great.
The OF may very well be Bay, Pagan and Matthews during the opening months as I don’t believe in Francouer as a offensive force at all.
Still, the Mets are terrible with how they let the news come out and now they will be blasted for this trade.
They should lock Sheets up soon to take some of the stink of this move.
I think the chances of trading Castillo are slim and none. If you couldn’t trade him in a dump for Matthews, then he’s not trade-able. Either commit to him as 2b or sign Hudson and cut him and pay the money.
francouer is fine offensively, he did plenty for us last year…
His isolated OBP is terrible. There’s no way he’ll repeat what he did last year.
I think after a full season of Francouer, most Mets fans will feel he’s a detriment offensively. That’s not to say that Matthews is going to be any better, although the one thing I like about Matthews is the man has something to prove to the rest of baseball.
He got the fat contract, got busted for PED’s and was banished to the bench. If he’s got anything left, he’ll get a chance to show it and redeem himself in NY.
It’s a low risk move for the Mets since they could easily cut him and eat the money they are on the hook for if he’s awful.
Still, on the surface, it looks like a stupid Mets move to the uninformed. I would have announced Sheets first if they are going to sign him…and they should.
i dont understand stupid people. the guys has a 271. career avg. has hit at least 30 doubles in 3 straight seasons. two seasons of 100 rbis and hit 15 homeruns last year. he also has a gold glove and amazing arm. he had 1 bad season in atlanta…and hes only 26. RETARDS
You failed to mention his terrible on base percentage, below average isolated power his diminishing range, or his .317 career wOBA.
You got me, this is really Omar Minaya isn’t it.
obp not withstanding he is still an above average offensive right fielder. and idk where u get that his range is diminishing at 26 years old lmao
fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4792&posit…
No, he’s been below average both offensively and defensively. He had a good
month when he came over to the Mets. Don’t think for a second that it was
normal or that it will last.
okay im done talking to u, ur obviously lost. the guy is 26 and had 1 bad year. ill take the 20 homers 30 doubles and 80 rbis hes gonna contribute
Stokes seems like a high price to pay even if the angels are paying 90% of GMJ’s contract.
He was underutilized and disrespected by Jerry all year…what did you expect?
I couldn’t agree more.
Pay $3M for a horrible 5th OFer and trade a decent BP arm to do it. How does this make sense?
castillo can’t be traded with the likes of orlando hudson, felipe lopez, and ronnie belliard still available in the free agency. plus, there are rumors that jose lopez and brandon phillips are in the trading block…..
the angels shouldn’t have any interest in oliver perez since just signing pinero the other day.
anyways, I feel GMJ should be a good 4th outfielder for the Mets…
i heard jose lopez was on the block, but phillips too? if thats the case i say they trade for phillips.
Dear Omar,
Please call me. Alfonso Soriano is also available. We will also kick in some money.
Thank You, Jim Hendry
“However, because Pagan has had a history with being injured, the team felt it necessary to bring in a proven, major-league center fielder, to compete in Spring Training, and, at the very least, act as a fourth outfielder.
The Mets could have signed a free-agent outfielder, for say $2 million per season, or trade for Matthews Jr., who they will also only pay $2 million per season. But, they were not satisfied with the current crop of free-agent outfielder, and so they chose to make the trade instead.”
-Metsblog
For 2 mill a season Matthews is a good move.
I read it as $2M total. So $1M a season. Much less terrible than I first
imagined.
HE WAS WORTH NEGATIVE 3.5 MILLION LAST YEAR.
…. This isn’t the worst move ever, but it is stupid and pointless.
Only if Matthews is paying the Mets that 2 Million instead of the other way around.
Matthews is below replacement level. Any minor league player you sign, trade for or call up from your own system should produce at a better rate. Those players cost 400-500K.
So, at 2 MM over 2 years, the Mets are paying more then double what the production should cost. Oh, and they also gave up a reliever – something they claim to be in need of.
This deal, even when paying Matthews only 2 MM out of the 23.5, is still a really bad deal for the Mets.
It’s official, Mets have locked up last place in the NL East, NL, and maybe MLB.
Also, I think that Minaya has screwed the Mets over more than Madoff has. Madoff took maybe $20 million from the Mets, while Minaya has spents probably over $100 million on crap players.
Yes because spending 1MM per year on a bench player is going to impact their season so much that now they are the going to finish last.
mmmmmmm…hyperbole.
Trading a crappy bullpen arm for a one-month stop-gap, getting almost all of that contract paid for by the other team will never be the reason a team falls into last place in their division; let alone all of baseball.
This trade is far from a steal, but let’s not overreact and say the Mets are now the worst team in baseball; even if that’s your biggest wish.
he is paying roughly 2 million for 2 yrs of his service…if he performs well he could be serious trade bait
Apparently the Mets will be on the book for $1 million a year. He’s good defensively. Expect him to be a backup to Pagan.
Now perhaps they could buy out Castillo?
Well this deal still isn’t good for the Mets, but its not awful. $1M per for GMJ isn’t much, and I’ve been all for dumping Stokes to open a bullpen spot.
I don’t think this is a bad deal at all for the Mets. You’ll get $2m worth of value from GMJ.
Ha the phillies are playing shane victorino less than the mets are playing matthew jr, a couple million less.
You do know he made 3.125MM in 2009, and just signed a contract 3 years 22MM…so clearly that is not even close to what the Mets are paying for GMJ..but good try!
ummm… The Mets are gonna pay him 1M a year… the ANGELS are paying him more than Victorino… thanks for reading
Victorino’s making over 6m this year and his new deal is backloaded.
okay so the deal is not that bad the mets pay 2mm for 2 years not bad at all. now the questions is what happens with pagan?
never mind missed last post for like 1 million a year its not a bad deal for mets
It’s $1m a year, big deal. I like the move for that price.
Not to be outdone by Dayton Moore, Omar acquires GMJ!
At least Ankiel has upside, though.
Mets fans complain too much. This is a good deal for the Mets and it gives them some insurance. For that price they couldn’t even get R. Ankiel.
Who is picking up Stokes’ salary? If it’s the Angles then the Mets are basically getting GMJ for 500,000, even if they don’t 1MM a year for GMJ isn’t that bad
500,000 a year I mean**
I don’t know how people can say that this is a bad deal, with that ridiculous contract Matthews has, the Mets only have to pay 2mm of it. It didn’t really matter who they got for the position. Its not like he’ll be playing for a starting job, when Beltran gets back we’ll have an extra bat on the bench.
The amount of money the Angels were picking up wasn’t in the original post.
Yes it is, I could easily be paying more then that 2k or in reality the mets paying 2mm for him, I’m not saying matthews is a great player by any means but he plays great defense and will be enough to plug in center field for a month until beltran is healthy, how much do you figure the mets would have needed to give up if they decided to sign Ankiel who also wanted a starting job, I doubt he would have signed for a one year deal worth 2mm
Matthews doesn’t play ‘great defense’ he plays lousy defense. He is a below
replacement level player with both the bat and the glove.
“I don’t know how people can say that this is a bad deal, with that ridiculous contract Matthews has, the Mets only have to pay 2mm of it.”I have a Forty-Thousand dollar car I will give you for 2 Thousand and your beat up 92 Accord. Sure, my car went through a compressor and now is just a metal cube with a BMW emblem glued to the side. But you would be paying only 2K of the 40K it cost me! This is a good deal for you, isnt it?
You could have signed a marginal OF for $1M and kept Stokes… Outside of KROD, our bullpen consists of Escobar, who has pitched 5 innings in 2 years, Igarashi who had surgery in 08 and has never pitched in mlb, Feliciano, who is a LOOGY (a good one, but still…), Green and Parnell, who are both terrible… Stokes might have been our best bullpen arm, sad as that is to say.
This is an unbelievably awful trade. I really want to get traded to a team with some potential. Stokes was so solid this year.
hey mets fans is not that bad, think about it, you guys payed CORA 2 mil so 1 mil for this piece of trash is not as bad…
I feel sorry for mets fans right now the nats are a better team.
If any other team makes this deal, the reaction is, “Well at $1M he’s not a bad bench outfielder.” The Mets make it and it’s ZOMG THE METS ARE THE WORST TEAM IN MLB THEY WILL LOSE 120 GAMES HAW HAW HAW.” The anti-NY hatred is totally out of control.
That said, I don’t like this deal either, mainly because you can find 80 OPS+ CFers on the scrap heap and they cost you nothing. Minaya’s biggest flaw is that he’s obsessed with “experienced” players, even if their “experience” is that they suck at baseball. The Mets’ bench under Minaya has always been loaded with creaky, washed-up veterans who had like one good year four years ago.
Now, they gave up essentially nothing to get him. Brian Stokes had 45 K’s and 38 walks in 70 innings last year. He’s 30 years old and was lucky to be on a major league roster even in a “good” year. The problem isn’t that you’re giving up Stokes to get Matthews, or that you’re giving Matthews $1M. The real problem is the opportunity cost. Matthews will soak up ABs and innings in the field that should be going to a better, younger player.
Like F-Mart, who really needs some time to prove himself.
Mets fans complain too much. This is a good deal for the Mets and it gives them some insurance. For that price they couldn’t even get R. Ankiel.
———————————————–
You know what, if Met fans complain too much maybe it’s because we’ve had one of the worst three-year runs in history and we’re sick and tired of it. I’ve got no problem with this deal, my problem is that Gary Matthews Jr. can’t pitch. And right now there are no guarantees that the four question marks behind Santana can pitch either — with effectiveness over a full season.
I still see pitchers out there who are available through free agency or possibly through trade, but I haven’t seen ANY concrete effort by the Mets to obtain any of them. That’s why many of us seem impatient – because we watched our front office completely ignore a bullpen problem (that was visible to anyone with a pulse in April/May 2007) for two full seasons. That cost the Mets, at a minimum, two playoff berths and possibly two division titles.
So yeah, I think we’ve waited long enough all off-season for the Mets to get serious about pitching. Because while I love Jason Bay and think he’ll be great in a Met uniform, in the end pitching wins.
“I’ve got no problem with this deal, my problem is that Gary Matthews Jr. can’t pitch”
I would be upset over this deal if I were a Mets fan. It means the 2010 roster sits at
C – Santos
1B – Murphy
2B – Castillo
SS – Reyes
3B – Wright
LF – Bay
CF – Beltran
RF – Francoeur
C – Coste (or Thole)
UI – Hernandez
UI – Cora
OF – Matthews
OF – Pagan
That bench doesn’t provide a real pinch hitter, there is a hole at 1B and that OF is stuck in that construction because everyone must be kept in the majors. But Franqoeur is below replacement level the last 2 years. Same is true of Matthews. Pagan is about an average player off the bench. Beltran still isn’t healthy. The Mets needed a real bat in that extra OF spot, not another black hole added to the roster.
So where you are correct that the Mets need pitching, their lineup also needs work! With Beltran out and assuming Matthews fills in for him to start, you will have some configuration of this to start
Reyes / Castillo / Wright / Bay / Francoeur / Murphy / Matthews / Santos
The back 50% of that lineup is replacement level production or below and it houses only 3 guys who represent an above average player.
I love this. How many Met games did you watch last year/last three years? Seriously. I respect your opinion (and your right to be wrong) but the Mets had two glaring needs coming into the off-season: a LF/RBI bat and starting pitching. Most games last year featured a lineup of bench players and minor leaguers. That said, some guys like Pagan actually performed very well — if you watched.
Most of Pagan’s games and at-bats came at lead-off and filling in for … Carlos Beltran. In those 88 games and 343 plate appearances he hit .306 with 22 doubles and 11 triples. He stole 14 bases and even knocked in 32 runs — all in a pathetic lineup with no protection, none. I can certainly live with Pagan filling in for Beltran while he’s out, and if the team wants to bolster him with Matthews Jr. for next to nothing, no problem.
Brian Stokes didn’t show me much at all, his stats are misleading, even though they’re nothing to write home about. In game after game that he came into, saw him do more damage than good. Not gonna miss him.
At catcher I haven’t seen anyone all off-season who is demonstrably better — statistically or otherwise — than what they’ll have this season. Committing to Benji Molina for two years would’ve been stupid. At 1B, would l love to see a blockbuster trade for Adrian Gonzalez? Sure. You and I both know that isn’t happening, and there’s always a Ryan Garko or someone like that they can pick up to platoon with Murphy if necessary.
The real glaring need is pitching. Go back and re-read my post. The team COMPLETELY IGNORED the bullpen problem for two years. That cost them TWO division titles. It was obvious to everyone and they did nothing. Instead, they convinced themsevles that Aaron Heilman, Scott Schoeneweis, Jorge Sosa (and a cast of thousands) would actually wake up one day and get people out.
The concern is the same thing is happening with the starting pitching. The four guys behind Santana are all huge question marks. And if the team is, once again, convincing themselves that these guys are going to all wake up and have big years then they’re telling fans that they’re just not serious. They’re dreaming. We’ve seen this movie before and, believe me, it does not end well. It hasn’t for three years straight.
“That said, some guys like Pagan actually performed very well — if you watched.”
Oooohhhh, Pagan played well in limited playing time last year so we should ignore the fact he has never played well prior to that?
Look, I understand they need pitching, but that doesnt somehow erase the need for hitting as well. And yes, they do need hitting. Right now, these are the 2009 wOBA marks for the current roster
.398 wOBA – Beltran
.397 wOBA – Bay
.368 wOBA – Wright
.358 wOBA – Pagan (again, never been above average prior to this)
.342 wOBA – Reyes
.337 wOBA – Castillo
.330 wOBA – roughly average
.318 wOBA – Murphy
.313 wOBA – Francoeur
.313 wOBA – Matthews
.298 wOBA – Hernandez
.298 wOBA – Santos
.297 wOBA – Coste
.288 wOBA – Cora
That is likely the worst collection of hitters outside KC.
Except they play in the national league with only 8 batters. The six listed
at the top mixed with two from the bottom is still a formidable lineup.
You know, I don’t think we’re really disagreeing all that much. My post was about the lack of effort to address the most glaring need: pitching. Especially based on recent history. I agree the Mets’ bench looks anemic, but without pitching it’s really academic.
As for Pagan, I’m going to guess you’re a Cub fan and can understand your attitude towards him, it was well earned. But while history is important, the job he did last year — especially under awful circumstances — was really a bright spot. I’ve gone back and forth about whether or not he can be part of a package in a trade because he has really done the job as the fourth outfielder, and done it well. The Beltran fiasco is evidence that they should keep him and continue to utilize him; he has produced.
That won’t erase all the eggs he laid in Chicago, but that’s not my problem. As a Met fan, my top priority is pitching because that’s where titles have been lost. In 2007 and 2008 the Mets scored more than enough runs to win titles. They got very little production from LF and good production from 1B, so this year that will switch.
Hardly anyone — if anyone — takes the Mets seriously with their current rotation and rightfully so. It must be upgraded substantially. I’ll take chances with some of those four guys behind Santana but not all of them.
Its not a money issue… The problem I have with the TRADE is that the Mets traded Stokes away for a player they could have signed as a FA. There are still a lot of decent OF’s left out there on the market… why LOSE a RP for a 4th or 5th OF???
It makes ZERO sense… Mets are really looking like fools – Jason Bay is the only decent move… UNLESS they still go out and sign Branyan for 1B, and sign Sheets – the Mets are in real trouble..
Omar Minaya is the best GM the Phillies have ever had!
Lol right, as an Angel fan I’m glad we got rid of our over payed 4th OF, with that said sorry mets fans hope the rest of the off season has better news for you.
Umm, you’re still paying most of his salary. Now you’re essentially paying $10M a year for Brian Stokes.
No ‘I’m’ not paying him ten million, the angels are, I just hope sarge jr can pitch for guys..
You do realize that your still basically overpaying him, just 1MM less per year to play on someone else’s while also taking on the salary of Stokes’!
This deal doesn’t really do anything for the Angels. We save a few bucks. That’s it.
Yes it does “do something for the angels” he wasn’t happy there and stated he wanted to be traded, so now they won’t have to deal with that on the bench
This is really the epitome of a non-issue. The Mets gave up a journey man relief pitcher w/ a career 5.00 ERA and a 1.60 whip. They are paying GMJ $1 mil a year for 2 years. Big deal. Best case scenario, maybe his pride kicks in and he manages to post a .260/.330 15 hr line. Worst base scenario he’s an experienced bat off the bench and a back up to Frankie or Bay. Extreme scenario he continues to regress and the Mets are out $1.2 mil (GMJ’s 2/$2 mil minus Stokes @ 2/$800 k). This move doesn’t hurt the Mets, and who knows, maybe in some small way it might prove positive. People can suggest that a minor leaguer could do the same but who is to say that player could even post a .250/.330 line that GMJ has? It’s not like he’s bring brought in to be a full-time starter.
This is where all Mets fans celebrate … during the offseason. They sure as heck can’t do it during the season. HAHA! More than likely it’s Sheets going to the Mets, but I guarantee he hits the DL at some point, which is obvious, I know. Just sayin, what a freakin mess that organization is and how low they’ve dropped.
as a braves fan, i absolutely love seeing the mets add guys like this to the roster. sure, he doesnt cost them much, but no matter how you look at it the fact of the matter is its still a below average player taking up at bats.
Braves fans are blessed with short memories. Wasn’t it your team that signed GA last off-season?
At least Garret knows how to hit.
this can be a good thing. hopefully this means f-mart goes down to AAA and gets all the ABs he deserves so he can fine tune his skills. i know they couldve gotten someone just as good, or bad for that matter, for less money but the deal is done. now you got to look ahead. hopefully they sign sheets and garland to make up for this or sign sheets and trade for harrang/arroyo and brandon phillips.
I’m quite happy about all this. Every Angels fan’s dream since the signing of Torii Hunter has been to trade Gary Matthews, Jr. and now our dreams have come true. A terrible clubhouse attitude, totally self-centered and a mediocre-at-best player. Now we ship him off to the Mets, where he can blend in with his surroundings of mediocre-at-best players (save for Johan and maybe Carlos Beltran).
The Angels’ roster now looks better than five days ago:
SS: Erick Aybar
RF: Bobby Abreu
CF: Torii Hunter
1B: Kendry Morales
DH: Hideki Matsui
LF: Juan Rivera
2B: Howie Kendrick
C: Mike Napoli
3B: Brandon Wood
C: Jeff Mathis
IF: Maicer Izturis
3B: Freddy Sandoval
OF: Reggie Willits
OF: Chris Pettit
SP: Jered Weaver
SP: Scott Kazmir
SP: Joel Pineiro
SP: Joe Saunders
SP: Ervin Santana
LRP: Jason Bulger
LRP: Brian Stokes
MRP: Kevin Jepsen
MRP: Scot Shields
SU: Fernando Rodney/Brian Fuentes
CL: Brian Fuentes/Fernando Rodney
A healthy Shields will do wonders.
I’m thinking Matt Palmer will make the roster. And Freddy Sandoval will still be playing triple A. Also, Rodney at closer, Shields at set-up, and Fuentes becomes a lefty specialist.
How could you not like that roster? Sure, maybe the Angels don’t have an ace, but you have five quality starters that can all win 15 games. I think it is a team built for the regular season, but may not last long in the playoffs.
You forgot Matt Palmer and Pineiro will likely be the #4
So let me get this strait, This “Genius Organization That does no wrong with its money” throws a combined 37 Million Dollars at Pineiro and Gary Matthews Jr Sallary, But let Lackey walk?
Wow… Can we get off the Angels are mightier than though kick… excuse the pun
Can I borrow your crystal ball? You’ve already labeled Pineiro’s 2 year $16mil deal a failure and Lackey’s ridiculous contract a success. He did not walk, he ran, to a monster deal that he never would have received if there were any other top of the rotation starters available. Last time I checked, there was a pretty large difference between $37 million and $85 million.
Your right, Pineiro is so much better than Lackey, especially because he’s pitched the NL… Pitchers who move from NL to AL always work out so well.. Let’s ask the crystal ball how John Smoltz, Brad Penny, and Dontrelle Willis did after they switched Leagues..
Very Smart to let your most versatile player (Figgins) go to a divisional that also aquired and Ace (Cliff Lee) while your front office sat back and did nothing… except acquire a guy who cant play the outfield (Matsui) and replace your Ace with Joel Pineiro…
Not saying I’m right, just that there are likely a laundry list of factors that nobody but the owner and general manager know about each of these transactions. You don’t know if Lackey will pan out, you don’t know that Pineiro won’t, you don’t know about Figgins, Matsui, or even Lee… and nor do I. Does that sound “Holier than thou?” I think that was the pun you were shooting for. I agree to disagree.
All i know, is that if I was an Angels fan, A team in a huge market like LA.. I would be Furious and would be calling for Reagin’s Job…
HAHAHAHA!!! Call for Reagin’s job? Whats the address of you glass house?
Aww.. Are the Angels gonna play the role of The Little Engine that Could?. When Pineiro is on the DL cause hes gettin knocked around every park, ill give you the address
No. They are just going to do what they do every year, realize it was mistake, move on, and win the division. If it does turn out to be a mistake.
Im not worried about Pineiro, he’s an innings eater, and the Angels have plenty of talent foaming at the mouth for an opportunity if he does hit the DL. Again its not a money issue its a chemistry issue, something the Mets have no idea about. Let’s see how big of a debacle the Mets turn out to be this year.
It’s pretty obvious you don’t follow the Angels.– Figgins was let go to save the club $9m/year. He was replaced by a former minor league player of the year – a guy who has a combined 900+ OPS over his minor league stint. If Wood can hit 250 with 20-25 HR’s Figgins won’t be missed one bit. And if he doesn’t hit plan B is a guy named Izturis who posted an OPS of 800 this past year, can lead off, and steal bases. Meanwhile, the M’s didn’t upgrade at 3B. They lost Beltre – a player that consistently out-performed Figgins (exception being in 09).– Matsui was brought in to play DH, to replace Vlad. He doesn’t need to play the outfield and is an upgrade over Vlad.– Lackey’s replacement was Kazmir. For the past 2 years Lackey has averaged around 160 innings and an ERA near 4. Those numbers are easily achievable for Kazmir. While our “ace” was putting up mediocre numbers the past 2 years the club has won 100 and then 96 games. Kazmir doesn’t need to do anything other than what he has shown in the past pre-injury.– Joel Pineiro is replacing our #5 starter. I would love to hear who your #5 guy is. Did he go 200+ innings with an ERA in the mid 3’s? Didn’t think so.I appreciate your enthusiasm in bashing another club. It would just be nice if you had a freaking clue what you were talking about.
So by saving the Club, you mean, letting your most versatile player go to a division rival that has 2 aces on staff? And replacing your Ace on the Roster with a mid rotation guy who had marginal success in the NL
And what are plans C and D when Pineiro and Matsui are sitting on the Bench with Injuries? Matsui playing a full healthy season is something that comes around once every 3 years, I wouldn’t bank on him staying healthy this year.. those knees are like glass
The front office has certainly earned some serious license. When your team wins their division 5 out of 6 years you can tell us how bad we are doing. Until then lets play it out.
Plan C – Matt Palmer 11-2 with 3.93 ERA
Plan D – Mike Napoli 20 HR (Hits better when not playing catcher)
Palmer’s mechanics say otherwise, but he’s not bad as a number 5 guy.
If there is any team that can afford to make a bad signing now and then, it’s the Angels.
Scoscia and Tony took that team from obscurity to regular contender. I think you’re being a bit harsh in saying that Tony should “turn the keys in”
I am an Angel fan since 1979 and I’m not furious at all. It is my opinion that this was the weakest FA market in years. It is also my opinion that Lackey and Figgins parlayed that market weakness into contracts that they otherwise would not have received and rightfully they accepted those offers. Halladay was never going to go to a team that did not train in FL. The Matthews signing was a terrible waste, as many predicted, but that transaction was executed by Bill Stoneman, not Reagins. As someone who saw Vlad the last two years I’d be shocked if Matsui is not an upgrade (in case you did not know, Vlad also can no longer play the outfield.) Offensively, IMO the Angels are very similar to what they were last year. Based on what I’ve seen Aybar should (notice I did not say will) be able to replicate similar production to Figgins. Same thing with Matsui vs. Vlad. Plus, another year under the belt for Morales and Kendrick. Who knows about Wood, but the potential is there. Last years rotation included rookies Nick Adenhart and Dustin Moseley, with Matt Palmer and Sean O’Sullivan combining for 23 starts. I would think that a full season of starts (hopefully) from Scott Kazmir and Joel Pineiro is an upgrade over those four. Reasonably priced bullpen depth has also been added, and Scot Sheilds is coming back. What can I say, I did not see very many attractive opportunities for Reagins this year.
Why does everyone keep saying Joel Pineiro is John Lackey’s replacement as ace? Weaver lead the team most of the year last year. Angels probably saw this coming and thats why they signed Scott Kazmir. I think it is better to say Kazmir replaces Lackey and Pineiro replaces Adenhart/Loux/Palmer/etc./etc.
Do point me out to those people saying that, so I can properly point and laugh at them.
Lackey is questionable as an ace. But if anyone is seriously saying that Piniero is more ace-like than Lackey, they deserve the upmost disrespect.
Good to see that the Angels are paying the bulk of the contract.
While I know some people are probably saying, “Whatever, we’re just paying him a million dollars per year,” it’s not the money that makes this a bad deal, but the fact that we’re giving him a roster spot. I would have much rather signed Alfredo Amezaga for around the same amount we’re paying GMJ while still keeping Stokes.
Matthews as a 4th OF stop gap for only 1 million is a steal. I just can’t understand why we can’t dump Castillo. all these other players dumped/release are just as bad as him i.e. Byrnes, Silva
aside from giving up stokes, this is a decent move for the mets. They get an outfielder who was never really given a chance in LAA who could return to form in at least one of the two years the mets got him. If he’s able to, it’s a steal. If not, a 4th outfielder for a couple mil isn’t that bad. Also, the NY outfielders are destined to get injured, so overloading those positions might be in their best interests. Get 6 OFs and two of them are destined to work out.
I don’t like giving up Stokes because the mets shouldn’t be sacrificing pitching for a 4th outfielder. He had a decent year last year, and at the very least he could prove to be a good mid-reliefer. Surely, the Mets could have given up someone else?
The problem is, with his poor defense (the last time he played CF on a full-time basis, in 2007, he had a -12 UZR. He’s bad.), and lack of ability to hit (Arlington. ‘Nuff Said), he’s not even worth a 4th outfielder spot despite the money. Couple that with the fact that Citi Field is a pitcher’s park…yeah. There were other free agents out there that could be used in much better situations (Reed Johnson, for example, for pinch-hitting vs. lefties, as well as for defense once he is used. I know he isn’t a good defender at all, but he’s at least been playing the outfield a bit more regularly than GMJ has lately.)
Basically, if GMJ had something about him that was something to speak of, it would have been a good move. He has nothing to speak of.
Well, in 2006 when he played full time in center, he had a 3.6 UZR. And he hadn’t had a negative UZR in center since 2003 when it was -0.1. In fact, he has a career 1.6 UZR in the outfield, and if Matthews is going to be used as a 4th outfielder, that’s not so bad. Of course there are better options than Gary Matthews Jr. but he won’t be starting (and if he in fact will be starting, then yeah, you’re rebuttal may hold merit). He could still have a revival in his hitting. He was never a power hitter, so the spacious confines of a pitchers ballpark could help his avg and obp numbers. But my major suggestion for the Mets was perhaps to stock up on 4th OFs so that when the Beltrans get injured, they don’t have to deplete their minor affiliates so much. So we could see Reed Johnson going to the Mets too.
But then again, Johnson is really a left fielder if anything. His UZR gets destroyed in CF and RF (career -14.8 in CF and -7.9 in RF). The only reason Johnson’s career UZR is positive is because his LF UZR is 23.3. And if you need a 4th OF that can actually field, Matthews is a better upgrade than Johnson.
Make no mistake, I don’t like GMJ and personally I wouldn’t have made this trade. It’s just not as bad as others are making it out to be.
Wow angels a lil desperate here to pay pretty much all his contract and get a nobody reliever,nice pick up mets.even if he doesn’t put big numbers they got a 4th outfielder for next to nothing…..while he isn’t the super star the angles thought he could be when they signed him i venture to guess his numbers will exceed what the mets are going pay him.Looks like the mets finally got it right.
Don’t expect this guy to return to his texas days, unless he starts roiding again. I drove a woman from the Dallas area who is involved with gmj and she hinted to the obivious, MASS ROIDS!!!!!
Angels have out of options outfielders who will now be 4th and 5th on the depth chart. Keeping GMJR would have meant losing one of them.
The Angels saved themselves money in this deal. GMJ was not going to be on their opening day roster no matter what. They were going to release him if they were not able to trade him. Releasing him would have meant they would pay the entire contract minus the league minimum for the two years. That means that by making this move, they pay Stokes who only made $405k last year and still save $800 thousand (of course depending on Stokes’ salary for 2010).
considering the fact they would have had to lose one of their “out of options” outfielders (Terry Evans and Reggie Willits.) Willits is a versatile OF option in both the field and the lineup and Evans has a few good minor league seasons when healthy. So in other words… they made the best of a very bad situation.
Between Francoeur and GMJ, that should be a delightful outfield until Beltran gets back!
This is an incredibly stupid move by the worst GM in baseball. Mathews can no longer hit or field and from what I hear he is also a bad guy to have around the team. This is like signing a guy on past performance and name recognition but no longer taking into account that he is not an mlb caliber player any longer.
What’s with all the hate for Luis Castillo? Did anyone notice he hit .302 last year? I am not a big mets fan but I live in New York and watch a lot of mets games and I think he is a better than average 2nd baseman.
I do think the Mets should use their money to sign Garland or Washburn and definately Ben Sheets.
Yeah he’s like Milton Bradley’s younger brother, if he had one.