The A's signed Ben Sheets to a one-year deal worth $10MM plus performance bonuses today. The injury-prone righty took his physical and everything checked out fine. That's no surprise, since Sheets looked impressive last week when he auditioned for interested clubs.
It's a lot of money to guarantee a pitcher who hasn't taken the hill since 2008, but Sheets has considerably more upside than most. He pitched 198.1 innings for the Brewers in 2008, allowing 181 hits and 47 walks, striking out 158 for a 3.09 ERA.
Consider that most players are signing team-friendly deals at this point in the offseason and Sheets' contract looks pretty good. Consider that Rich Harden, who actually started 26 games last year, signed for $7.5MM this winter and the deal looks even better for Sheets and agent Casey Close.
CSNBayArea's Mychael Urban tweeted that the A's made Sheets a "competitive" offer and noted that the A's had scheduled a press conference. Danny Knobler of CBS Sports reported that the A's signed Sheets and Jon Heyman of SI.com added details, including the value of the deal.
Ben Nicholson-Smith contributed to this post.
what a wonderful idea! try to sign sheets or go get an outfielder! ummm, what?
i agree, this is a bit of a wtf-strategy from beane-and-company. so… either we need a high-risk, high-reward starter or a medium-risk, medium-reward aging outfielder. i guess either one’s just going to get flipped at the trade deadline anyway, but still… save your $7MM until you’ve got a plan, right?
Agreed completely, get a coherent plan and quit counting on “flipping for profit”. An unneeded old outfielder who can’t play defense and a SP who didn’t pitch last season don’t seem to fit on a team trying to build for 2011+.
If Damon can be had for under $5m any team should be in on that. He will be a steal and valuable come the trade deadline.
The A’s really look like they are just trying to fill seats with these moves. They probably are having a tough time selling tickets and need to spark some interest. Either way both Sheets and Damon won’t be on the A’s roster come Aug 1. They will just be traded for mediocre prospects like usual
The A’s really look like they are just trying to fill seats with these moves. They probably are having a tough time selling tickets and need to spark some interest. Either way both Sheets and Damon won’t be on the A’s roster come Aug 1. They will just be traded for mediocre prospects like usual
Not to mention Travis Buck and Michael Taylor (!)
I’d love to see the A’s add Sheets, but Damon is truly a strange “Plan B”.
I guess they would have Damon start at DH and trade Cust…?
What this means is Billy Beane sees two players who if they perform at their expected level could be difference makers at the Trade Deadline. Sheets would be great in that yard if healhty
What were the interesting tweets? Nah, just kiddin’. Sheets I could see (if his asking price drops from what I have read)… Damon doesn’t seem to fit with the A’s.
The AL West is getting increasingly competitive. Fun to watch
Agreed, can’t wait for the season to begin!
I’m assuming that Beane would sign one of these two players in order to flip them at the Deadline. That’s not a bad strategy, in my opinion. In the best case scenario, it could be like the Holliday trade. In the worst case scenario, it’d be like the Giambi signing. This strategy is high-risk, but could provide an extremely high reward.
I hope the best case for Oakland is much better than the Holliday deals. The A’s now wind up with Taylor, who may not be much better than C Gonzalez who went to Colorado – not to mention H Street. I do not think the Holliday adventure worked out for the A’s at all.
street was a closer who had lost his job in Oakland, they had internal options who they arent paying 6 mil per year for. Greg Smith is garbage, Carlos Gonzalez is the question mark….Taylor for CarGonz not horrible
Carlos Gonzalez>>>>>>Michael Taylor. He looked like a true 5-tool player in Colorado last year and may break out HUGE in 2010. Taylor still is a complete unknown and may never be good in the bigs. The A’s really screwed up by dealing away Gonzalez.
Brett Anderson, Chris Carter, and Gonzalez would all look nice in AZ. Haren is a great pitcher but these kids should have some great careers.
It’s amazing how much trading has gone on involving Mulder, Haren, and Holliday.
Haren, Kiko Calero, and Daric Barton for Mulder.
Haren and Connor Robertson to AZ for Carlos González, Brett Anderson, Aaron Cunningham, Greg Smith, Dana Eveland, and Chris Carter.
Holliday to Oakland for Huston Street and Greg Smith, and outfielder Carlos González.
Holliday to St. Louis for Brett Wallace, Clayton Mortensen, and Shane Peterson.
Then of course:
Brett Wallace to Toronto for Michael Taylor.
So in essence:
Oakland: Brett Anderson (biggest player by far they get imo), Michael Taylor, Aaron Cunningham, Chris Carter, Clayton Mortensen, Dana Eveland, Daric Barton, Kiko Calero and Shane Peterson.
Arizona: Dan Haren and Connor Robertson.
Colorado: Huston Street and Greg Smith, and outfielder Carlos González.
St. Louis: Matt Holliday and Mark Mulder.
Toronoto: Brett Wallace
That’s a ton of players for essentially 3 star players.
They also have Michael Taylor, signing Damon would be a bad idea
This to me atleast reeks of “lets sign a high risk player, hope they play well and get prospects mid-season for one of them”. They cant use either player, neither helps them make the playoffs, so why bother with them unless thats the case?
Really? Ben Sheets won’t help a team make it to the playoffs? If the guy stays healthy he is a stud and could be an ace on any staff especially if you combine him with the Coliseum.
I think he meant that even by adding Sheets the A’s are still far from being a team that would make it to the playoff. The A’s are still a bit off from being a contending team.
Right.
That’s not very true either. The A’s have made it with anemic offenses in the past as well and adding Sheets would give them one of the better rotations in the West with Duke, Sheets, Braden and Anderson being only the 1-4 without even mentioning Cahill and Gonzalez will probably improve and combining it with the best bullpen in the league will give them one of the better pitching staffs in the majors. The Angels lost a lot in Lackey, Figgins and Guerrero. The Rangers pretty much sat on their hands adding only Oliver a RP that can only contribute so much and an aging Vlad as their only significant additions. The Mariners are really the only threats but they have added significant pieces in the past as well that completely blew up in their face. The division weakening so much has to be taken into account as well.
The offense of the A’s wont get them there, however its true they do have an excellent bullpen, but you saying the West “weakened so much” is just wishful thinking. Vlad missed alot of the season with injuries and Lackey started the season on the DL. Figgy as the leadoff was probly the bigger loss, but he’s a speed guy thats losing his speed, don’t get me wrong, I liked Chone a lot but its time Wood comes up, he was out of options to stay in the minors. Besides, Abrue, Aybar, Izzy (if starting) can all lead off, even Howie can, so don’t be so quick to call every team weak in an attempt to get your hopes up, sorry but A’s wont contend this year even with Sheets.
How was Lackey not a big loss especially when you consider that he was the only Angels starter, besides Weaver, with an ERA under 4.60. You guys replace Lackey with a guy like Joel Pinero and thats not good. Remember the last time he pitched a full season in the AL he had an ERA over 5 in the Mariners park. And I agree the offense for the Angels may not weaken by much because of the addition of Matsui but you can’t tell me it’s not going to weaken when you plug guys in that are already there for leadoff. When someone moves up, someone else has to come in and usually that person is an inferior player. Brandon Wood is an inferior player. He has to prove that he can hit above the Mendoza line in the majors before he actually looks good and remember not too long ago he was released by his Mexican League team because he hit below the Mendoza line there as well.
I just read your point about Kazmir replacing Lackey. Good luck with that. You’re talking about a guy who just pitched to a solid 4.89 ERA last year replacing your ace.
Lol its funny how you look at Kaz ERA at the end of the season, but don’t know the details. His ERA with tampa was was almost 6 for 20 games, he was struggling, but once he came to the Angels he had an ERA under 2 for 6 games, where (and now for the details) he re joined his old pitching coach from tampa, Mike Butcher. So while Im not saying he’ll be a “number 1” I am saying that he’s a solid SP who adds to our club and will be great back for a full season with Butcher. Lets be honest here, I’m sure most (most being the key word, not saying the Yanks/Sox/Phils or other strong teams) fans would be happy to have the Angels rotation, like A’s fans…Lol when did I say Wood was the next big thing? I just mentioned that Figgy had to go cuz our prospect was out of options. Also wtf are you talking about a Mexican league for wood? He was drafted in 03 by the Angels from an AZ high school, I don’t think he was playing in Mexico as a teen…. I know just as everyone else does that he’s gotta prove himself, so not sure whats with all the inferiority talk, just sounds like your bitter IMO
In 2008 he played in the Dominican Winter League and got sent home because he hit .167. You need to read up on the prospects for your team a little more.
tireball.com/behindthedugout/?p=771
And why would I be bitter about the Angels rotation? Even without Sheets, the A’s have a rotation of Duke, Anderson, Braden, Cahill and Mazzaro/Gonzalez. Adding in Sheets would only help that rotation. I would much rather have those guys than Kazmir, Pinero, Weaver, Santana and Saunders. Do you really have that much faith that Pinero could dominate like he did in the NL once he switches back into the AL? The question marks are there for your offense just as much as there is with the A’s. And jealous of Brandon Wood? Why? Kevin Kouzmanoff will have the better year in 2010 anyways.
Oh wow well his average was that low for a grand total of 13 games big deal, again the kid needs regular at bats in the majors to progress, look at his minor league numbers he’s got nothing left to prove at that level. And why you might take that rotation good for you that’s your opinion, and my opinionis that I’d rather have the angels’ rotation.
The reason you should care even though it’s only 13 games is because that was against lesser competition than even in AAA ball.
Love watching know-nothing Disneyland fans get pwnt.
I am an angels fan and live 2 minutes away from d-land. i hate disneyland, i actually think the more you go/closer you live, the more you hate it
“I just mentioned that Figgy had to go cuz our prospect was out of options.”
Since when do you let a versatile lead off hitter walk because you’ve got an unproven prospect with atrocious strikeout (33%) and walk (3%) rates who’s out of options?
That has to be one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard.
I’d rather have the A’s rotation than the Angels, that is for sure. Angels are much more of a complete team though on paper right now.
thats an absurdly LARGE if, considering the last time he pitched in the majors was in 2008
As fans might as well get used to the idea of Damon…..the Mets can afford and will overpay for Sheets; they desperately need him…the Rangers are really the Mets only competition
The top teams happen to be the Mets and the A’s. It would make no sense for sheets to go back to texas, especially in that great hitters park. If he is trying to make it back in the majors as a strong pitcher from the past, a one year contract in a pitchers park would be the perfect contract.
For the A’s not contending I highly doubt that
The AL west has weaken
The Angels lost lackey number 1 starter and replaced him with Pinero who basically was torn up by the Al west when he pitched for the mariners
Loseing vlad and signing injury prone Matsui is an option? highly doubt it
as for woods takin over 3rd who knows what he can do, until he proves himself so that is always a question mark
The Mariners have made alot of noise but they always seem to make some type of noise and cant come together and win the AL west, there bullpen isnt the best so that is a question mark also
Getting Bradley who I watch in Oakland could be a good pick up if he decides not to be an immature child.
Felix and Lee a great 1 2. no doubt there
Rangers will never have amazing pitching in that park they play in
but there power def has not changed. If Hamilton stays healthy they will def contend
As for the A’s Signing sheets will def make our young solid rotation even better
Justin D
Sheets
Anderson
Cahill
Gio G
solid Bullpen
Hitting could be a problem like it is every year, but we def will have the fastest outfield
with Davis, Crisp, and sweeney. Alot more stolen bases and most likely alot more small ball
Our defense is solid! With Kurt S at catcher, Ellis at 2nd, KOUZMANOFF at 3rd
I see signing Damon as a good and bad thing
def will be a hitting booster but then why pay someone like him millions to play one year unless Beane is planning to flip him at the allstar break, thats what money ball is all about.
The Al West will be a race all the way to the end.
GO OAKLAND
For the 147th time, Pineiro didn’t replace Lackey, thats what Kazmir was for. Pineiro will be our 5th starter. And vlad was also injury prone, the thing with Matsui is that (if healthy) he will add a strong LEFT handed bat, which the Angels basically only had Morales (Abrue is a switch hitter but not as big a power threat). So his signing over Vlad was to have a more balanced line up, not so RH batter heavy.
Kazimir seems to never be healthy. Your lineup will still put up runs but I dont think your rotation will be as solid as it has been over the last few years.
Who is the angels number 1?
Kazmir?
If he is I would have serious worries
Sorry, my post might have not been so clear about Kaz. He was brought in to strengthen the rotation because the FO was probly sure they weren’t gonna make a serious bid for Lackey to come back. So he wont necessarily be the “Number 1” guy but gives us a strong rotation.Not sure where your getting your info either, his 06 year he started 24 games(not counting his 8 his rookie year), his lowest in 6 seasons so I don’t think he’s always injured. You might be thinking of Lackey, he began the last 2 seasons on the DL. Also he had a bad 1st half in Tampa but once he worked with Butcher (his ild pitching coach) here in Anaheim he had an ERA of 1.73. And no I don’t have serious worries, I actually can’t wait for the season to start so we can win the West agian and make a run in the playoffs 😀
It interesting that the angels took on Kazs contract which is a little higher per year then lackeys contract. If kaz is healthy he could be a #1 starter for the angels. He has had some health problems the last few years. The fact that the angels prefer Kaz over Lackey makes you wonder what is going on. The Red Sox went so public about not signing Jason Bay and his bad knees, there might be a greater problem up the road with Lackey.
Yes but Kaz is with us for 2 years, not 5 that the red sox signed lackey for so in the long run Kaz would’ve been paid less. Lackey has had health problems before, the Angels FO definitely knows stuff we might not know for some time, but thats just our opinion so who knows, right.
You are correct we are not privy to what the Angels may know about Lackey. If kaz is healthy he can anchor the angels staff. We will have to wait and see.The angels lost some players and seattle added a few guys but the angels will be in the hunt the whole way. Should be a good 2010 season.
I think you need to check your math. As per Cots:
Kazmir is either 2/22 or 3/33 (if the option is picked up) – Average = $11m
Lackey is 5/82 – Average = $16.4
And for the hundredth time – we don’t need Kazmir to go out and pitch 200+ innings of low 3’s ERA. Lackey over the past 2 years has given the team about 160 innings and an ERA in the high 3’s. Even with his injuries and ineffectiveness the team managed to knock out 197 wins. Kazmir simply needs to go 160 innings with an ERA under 4 to match Lackey’s past 2 year output.
For 2009 I think the Angels Rotation will probably be Weaver, Kazmir, Santana, Saunders, Pineiro, in that order.
No one gets their agenda disseminated by the media as well as Boras does.
Agreed, but why would it help Boras/Damon to leak something about the A’s, a team without much money and a surplus of outfielders?
Maybe because Damon has so few (one?) suitors that any team that is added to the mix furthers Boras/Damon’s interests
I don’t quite understand the not having money deal here – this is the same team that had 2nd highest bids for both Chapman and Beltre. But regardless Damon makes no sense at all to the A’s.
The A’s have some money to spend so to those dismissing the Sheets idea, just wait it out and see. Oakland would be the perfect place to try to re-build some value. Huge park, and a healthy Sheets could put up ridiculous numbers there. I also wouldn’t assume this move is made ONLY to flip him at the deadline. A rotation of Duke, Sheets, Anderson, Braden and Cahill/Gio would be very solid. They already have one of the best bullpens in the game, to go along with a very good defensive unit. The offense won’t set the world on fire but they showed in the 2nd half last season they can put up some runs and won’t need to score a ton with a strong rotation/bullpen/defense. I wouldn’t just assume the A’s have no chance in 2010.
i go to a lot of A’s game throughout the course of a year and don’t see a strong Defense on this years squad. I hope so, just not seeing it. Kouz is a very overrated defended with little range…Crisp is coming off an injury. Love Suzuki and Ellis with the glove but not much else
Well you’ve also got Barton at 1B, Sweeney in RF, and Rajai Davis in CF/LF. The only spot on the diamond where they lack somebody who projects as above average is at SS and Pennington is far from a bad defender, and was pretty good in the minors. Good range, very strong arm. He could easily end up an above average SS himself.
The OF outside of Crisp (because of injuries) looks good defensively; Ryan Sweeney is a plus defensive OF, Davis should be a decent defensive player (much of that is because of his speed).
In the IF; Kouz maybe a bit overrated but I still think he should be a average defender at 3rd. Ellis, Suzuki should be fine..Pennington looks to be average and Barton is a pretty good defender at 1st..
Kouzmanoff set the league record in defense last year????
Not to mention Travis Buck and Michael Taylor (!)
I’m a Met fan, and realize Sheets is a huge injury risk on a team full of injury risks but it makes sense. The team cannot afford to deal any of the few prospects they have and Sheets will only cost $$$$ for 1 year and I believe he will not cost a draft pick.
Sheets has got the realize that any signing (and good performance) would lead to a trade down the road. Unless they included a no-trade clause I can’t imagine him being comfortable choosing the A’s unless they offer him the absolute highest guaranteed bid.
Why does everyone assume that a trade is coming down the line? If Sheets helps the A’s make it to the playoffs then we could be looking to add players not just flip them. This is a move toward the playoffs to get an above average rotation and depending on how Cahill and Anderson develops and the health of Sheets and Duke, this move could actually give them one of the better rotations in the majors. The offense should be good since nearly everyone is fast and they are moving toward a philosophy of small ball. Why would we be trying to flip Sheets if we are winning? I don’t understand why everyone automatically assumes the A’s don’t win because of 3 bad seasons following a trip to the ALCS.
I totally agree. Most people dont understand Money Ball at all. Beane has proved that he is the smartest GM by following his method. We will def add players if we are winning like most teams would.
Yeah, if Cahill and Anderson have breakout years, and Sheets and Duke are both healthy, and Sheets and Duke both have career years, then yes, one of the best rotations in baseball. If.
The A’s dont have a shot. Buster is a great source but Tim, you need to look around more. The 3 teams that are probably going to sign him are Mets, Mariners, or a wild card team is the Rangers. Check out prospectinsider.com. Sorry A’s fans
Right…something tells me that prospectinsider.com may not know all of the details, just a hunch. Beane NEVER gives information on specific free agent targets, and this is no different. I have read quite a few quotes and reports from people since the middle of last week that either say, or strongly suggest that the A’s are serious suitors for Sheets. I am fairly certain they have just as good of a chance as the Mets, Mariners and Rangers.
Tim needs to look around more? He only covers every legitimate source, is that not enough for you?
“The A’s dont have a shot. Buster is a great source but Tim, you need to look around more. The 3 teams that are probably going to sign him are Mets, Mariners, or a wild card team is the Rangers. Check out prospectinsider.com. Sorry A’s fans”
It’s times like this I miss when we couldn’t edit posts
Not sure why people think Cashman is only willing to offer Damon $2 mil. I believe what’s been sais is that they were telling “others” they had $2 mil to spend but would go over that amount to sign Damon for something in the $5-$6 mil range.
“Athletics Interested in Random Players”
I think it’s just like they did last year. Holliday, Orlando Cabrera, if Nomar stayed healthy then he probably would of went too. Just away to trade to contending teams at the trade deadline.
so this is the mystery team i guess for Damon, but why are they going after him? They have alot of outfielders. Like someone else said i guess to just to trade them at the deadline and get some prospects back.
Both Good Moves for the A’s… High Risk All Upside with Sheets, and Damon would be a solid fit for them
Can you explain how Damon would be a solid fit for the A’s? I still have not seen good reasons how Damon is a good fit. So I am wondering what makes Damon a fit in Oakland let along a solid fit.
Damon would not be a solid fit for them, the A’s have alot of depth at the Of and Dh postions i understand signing then flipping damon at the deadline but if matt holliday cant hit inside oaklands ball park what in the world do you the Damon is going to be able to do? If his choices are between Oak and Nyy he would sign with Nyy he gets the shot at a championship every year even if it means taking a pay cut. Now signing sheets would make alot of sense if he is really healthy because he can kinda mentor the young guys and resurrect his Career in one of the best pitchers ball parks there is besides petco
These moves would actually seem plausible if they were a heavy contender, but with the way The Mariners and The Rangers are getting people, I think not.
Before Damon gets to the A’s price range, I’ve gotta think he’d hit the Braves price range.
damon is not going to the A’s – that literally must be the last place he would want to go. Just look at his numbers during his one year. By far the worst season of his career (not counting his rookie year). And it wasn’t just an abberation. Damon fouls off balls constantly, many of which are caught in the spacious foul territory in oakland. .657 home OPS in 2001.
So he’s going to sign a one year deal for $2mm with OAK, post a horrible home OPS and then retire because everyone will think he’s “too old”? Forget it. He’d be better off going to the Red Sox or the Yankees for free, hitting 15 hrs and trying again.
There is NO WAY that Damon settles for 2 Mil. Rick Ankiel just signed for 3.25. Melky received 3.1. Damon is vastly superior to both on a 1 yr deal
He’s also vastly older than both, and more prone to injury, and much worse defensively. So there’s that.
But on a one year deal coming off a good year? I can’t see Damon signing for less than Vlad did. Think ~6million.
Perhaps. Vlad’s actually a better comp than Ankiel or Melky, both age-wise and w/ their defensive limitations. But Damon’s running out of options, and the remaining teams that might add him don’t need to overspend.
It’s all about when he signed. One day LaRoche receives an offer for 2 years and 15 mil was it? Next day he accepts a deal for less than 6 mil. Damon priced himself out of options. He is worth 6-10, but he his priced himself to a 2-5 mil deal. I think A’s are willing to give him the most though.
Unless the A’s offer Sheets an obscene amount of money, I can’t see how he would sign with them. The A’s are odds on to finish last in the AL West … again.
Outside of dollars, the Mariners have every positive thing the A’s can offer and more. Same great pitchers park but a better chance to win and as good as the A’s defense is, the Mariners’ is better.
Plus, last I checked, Seattle is a hell of a lot better place to live than Oakland.
You have no facts in your post.
all this sounds like is bias
Im sorry but I cant take your post seriously lol
oh and when is the last time the mariners made the playoffs?
2001? lmao
The odds ARE the A’s finish last.
The M’s defense IS better than the A’s defense.
Visit one city, then visit the other. There is no contest. One is beautiful, clean, laden with mountains, ocean, islands, lakes and hills. The other is dirty, hazy, crowded and laden with freeways.
Vego07, did you really lmao? Be honest now. are you still lyao? talk about not taking someone seriously.
@RudolfWell looks like Sheets like OaklandWhy does it matter how crappy the city is, im not doubting that seattle is a great city.But the fact of the matter is the Bay Area is beautiful, and those from the bay Area can back me up. No one is saying sheets has to live in Oakland but he can go and enjoy the northern california life. With landmarks, beautiful houses, etcand for the mariners having a better defense i seriously doubt that.All your showing is bias, where are your stats?
Not if you don’t like the rain it ain’t :p
Keep telling people that. It rains all the time. Don’t move here!
I’ve been te Seattle and my best friend growing lives in Bremerton. ANd it does rain a lot, nice city tho with the best sea food. Summers are nice too.
Seattle better than the Bay Area??? Wow…..
Check it out. It’s true.
The A’s and the Mariners are probably two of the most similar teams out there…
– Great defenses
– Uninspiring offenses with speed to burn but no power
– Pitching staffs with big question marks
– For the A’s, can the young guys improve upon last year? Will Duke be healthy?
– For the M’s, who’s throwing after Felix and Lee?
Mariners fans need to relax a bit. Yes, Jack Z is the best thing since sliced bread. Sure, he added Figgins and Lee. It’s true that Ichiro doesn’t age (or maybe even ages backward…). But who’s going to make up for Russell Branyan’s pop? Who’s catching? What about left field? How bad is Junior going to be at DH in 2010? Can David Aardsma, Mark Lowe and Sean White repeat solid seasons in the pen?
If the Mets let Sheets get away, it would be a disaster. I’d be more comfortable slotting Pelfrey/Perez/Main as the Mets 3-4-5 instead of as their 2-3-4, as it currently shapes up.
I agree. Minaya/Mets looked NY in face and said they would improve team and spend $$$ this offseason. it’s been Bay and nothing so far. No pitcher, no catcher, no upgrade at 2B. Pathetic
its makes perfect sense now!!
billy beane plans on pulling a “rick ankiel” on damon and make him into a pitcher when/if he doesnt sign sheets!
genius
Have you ever seen Johnny Damon try to throw a baseball? ROFLMAO. He gives chicken wings and little girls a bad name by using that arm.
Looks like Omar is gonna wait to long again.
A’s take good risks. Mets do nothing again. I’m so sick of this. being a Met fan is so not fun now.
Braves need more fans and have the farm for a healthy tomorrow… at least the Mets fans go support their team.
Damon makes NO sense whatsosever. A’s have too many outfielders, period.
Now, Ben Sheets on the other hand, makes PLENTY of sense. Sheets and Anderson at the top of a rotation, yes please.
Ben Sheets to Oakland? A great idea, and a good fit. Do it, Billy!
If Billy made an offer, you can bet that its nowhere near what Sheets and his delusional agent have both hysterically imagined he’s worth. My guess would be $4MM-$5MM plus incentives that could reach $7MM, only for a stellar year, with lots of appearances and innings pitched. I’d be surprised if Sheets didn’t shop himself further, but I also doubt he’ll get any offers that are significantly better. Under the bird in the hand theory, plus the fact that half the season is in such a monstrous park, Sheets should probably grab this.
Whoops.
Now there’s some saavy commentary
Mets passing on Sheets would be so weak just like the rest of the Met offseason. As a diehard fan I’m sick of these “non moves”. Let’s do some simple math.
Payroll last year was roughly 140 million.
Salaries Roughly Coming off Books = 45 Mill consisting of
Wagner-13M
Delgado–16M
Putz– 8M
Schneider–6M
Willie Randolph 2M – last yr on his contract
Raises/Option Buyouts –10M– Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Putz, Francour, etc
New Player Salaries –20M– Bay, Matthews, Escobar, Blanco etc
That Leaves Met Payroll at roughly 115M
Payroll Budget Reduction – say 10 Million – so new budget is 130 Mill – face it almost every MLB teams is doing this, accept it move on
That leaves Mets with about 15Million to spend. That’s more $$$ left to spend than most teams. When and who are we going to spend it on? Let’s go Go Get Sheets, Hudson and Barajas – you will get a high risk/reward injury risk pitcher with upside and improve 2B and catcher. If not Sheets and the very least get Garland. C’mon
If you want us to cheer Let’s Go Mets, spend!!!!!!!!!
CBS Sports just reported that the A’s have reached an agreement with Ben Sheets.
1 year/8MM. If we believe in comebacks we have to work for them. Mets fans unite! Off with Minaya’s head.
This is pathetic you right
I agree. Minaya/Mets looked NY in face and said they would improve team and spend $$$ this offseason. it’s been Bay and nothing so far. No pitcher, no catcher, no upgrade at 2B. Pathetic
——————————————
This perfectly sums up the attitude held by the overwhelming majority of Met fans. What is also pathetic is that the ownership and front office for this team, inexplicably, does not see this. In fact, “pathetic” and “inexplicable” are the two best words to describe everything about the Mets over the past three years. Pitching is essential to to success. Ben Sheets is a pitcher, pretty good one too.
I think the idea was “See, we are trying – Bay cost a lot of money!” as if Fans wouldnt notice that is all they were going to do.
But if Bay cost almost all the money they had to spend (which it kind of seems that way with how fickle they have been otherwise) then they should have never signed Bay and instead spent that money to fill a couple of the 7 or so holes they have.
The all your eggs in one basket route rarely ever pays off, but Omar seems intent on continuing to try that path.
I don’t like the idea of Sheets in the A’s if he is trying to have a good season. Firts he would be going to the AL, 2nd he would be facing the M’s, the Rangers and Angels most of the time. If I was him, I would stay in the NL.
Lucky enough you are not him; I am actually looking forward him pitching in green and gold; if he comes remotely close to what he used to be and if Duke performance is also good this rotation is much much better.
8-9M? someone is about to overpay Sheets
I would rather gamble 8 mil on Sheets regaining his old form as opposed to throwing similar money out for Penny, Garland, Marquis, Pineiro, Harden
I fully agree, with Sheets his stuff is nasty and if healthy his upside is better than any of the run of the mill starters in the market this offseason.
Agreed, except for Harden. He’s probably just as big of a gamble as Sheets, but IF Harden’s healthy, he’s most definitely the better pitcher.
St. Louis, Washington and Anaheim are going to feel pretty stupid about the money they handed to Penny, Marquis and Piñeiro.
I doubt Garland will get much more than $4-5M at this point. What’s the holdup there anyone? I’ve heard rumors that he’s a clubhouse malcontent and doesn’t really get along with anyone, but they’re just rumors. Can anyone confirm that?
both are huge question marks but when healhty Sheets was a pitcher that could go deep into games and control a pitch count and lineup. Though Harden has better stuff he has never been more than a 5 inning starter.
“Agreed, except for Harden. He’s probably just as big of a gamble as Sheets, but IF Harden’s healthy, he’s most definitely the better pitcher.”
Harden is not healthy, and never will be. His arm problems restricts him from throwing the slider, making him an extreme FB guy with merely a two pitch arsenal. That will never result in success over extended periods of time. But if he reintroduces the slider to provide positive production, his arm falls off after about 50 innings. So you either have a better pitcher for about 50 innings before he hits the DL, or a pitcher with just two non-breaking pitches that dont fool anyone without something to set them up.
I have a feeling my blood pressure is about to go up.
Re: Press Conference
Perhaps they’re planning to announce another successful push to be 2nd in line for a Free Agent that they’ve been pursuing?
Zing!
There goes that theory. Nice pickup by the As. I think will turn out better for them than Beltre would have.
Good pickup by the A’s and smart move by Sheets to go to a pitchers park like Oakland, where he can focus on regaining form.
A’s Sign Ben Sheets according to Knobler at CBS
is this true? because tims last post was just mean.
If you are a pitcher looking to regain form that is the park you want to go to, even in the AL your era will still look good.
Not a bad park to try & reclaim your pitching prowess in.
I can’t imagine he will last the year there though.
yeah but wrong league I would think.
Looks like Omar missed out on another chance to find a starting pitcher.
I like the move for the A’s and it works well for Sheets too. Sheets can lead a young pitching staff without much pressure and build his value back up. If Duchscherer is healthy too and their young pitchers progress it could be a nice rotation.
WOW Mets fans, this isn’t exactly what I expected at all….. I thought for sure your GM would finally get one right, and pick up Sheets… As far as the A’s go, they just may have gotten the best FA pitcher on the market this year, if he stays healthy. I’ve seen him pitch, and his stuff is un-questionbale. Good luck Benny, still got love for you here in Miltown
Fire minaya!!!!
I almost feel bad for Mets fans.
FInally!!!
A’s offered most money and years to beltre/scutaro-rejected
A’s 2nd in Chapman bidding- rejected
Resigned Duchscherer and Cust to below market 1 yr deals
Traded Spare parts for Jake Fox and Kevin Kouzmanoff.
Traded Brett Wallace for Michael Taylor.
Signed Coco Crisp
Signed Ben Sheets
When Omar Minaya holds his first media availability in Port St.Lucie in a few weeks and looks dozens of reporters in the eye and says the Mets can win with a rotation of Santana, Pelfrey, Maine and Perez I hope they all bust out laughing and walk away.
lol, true words spoken. Can’t forget about Niese though. Mets fans better hope Jenrry Mejia gets ready pretty damn soon or that organization is gonna crash and burn because their pitching is atrocious. Gotta think that they will get Garland, Washburn or Wang though so here is my Mets rotation:
Santana
Garland
Maine
Pelfrey
Perez
I think the Mets are making it pretty clear they’re not signing anyone of consequence. Unless they make a trade for a good starter they’re headed into 2010 with the rotation I mentioned plus Niese or Nieve. Whatever.
That also means they are gambling on those arms to get off to a good start -without Beltran for a month there will be added pressure on the pitching staff. And without that good start Citi Field is going to be a ghost town real quick; they won’t be able to give tickets away. No one’s going to watch SNY or listen to WFAN (except to complain), no one is going to buy any merchandise because no one wants to be laughed at.
Three years of misery leaves no margin, you can only insult the fans’ loyalty so many times. At some point the roof caves in.
another bad day for the mets
Side Note: Just succumb defeat Damon and Boras already and sign with the Yanks
I really like the Orioles as a landing spot for Damon. They’ve got money to burn and a huge hole in the #2 spot. Damon can split time between DH and LF and give the O’s the flexibility to trade Luke Scott.
Should it happen? Yes.
Will it happen? Not a chance. Andy MacPhail is waaaaaaaaaay too cheap.
L. Scott already is complaining about playing time in the field, imagine if you told him he will be splitting Playing time.
read he wasn’t going to accept the 1yr 5m offer from the Yanks
According to who?
Sheets
Duchscherer
Anderson
Braden
Mazaaro/Gio/Outman (midseason after tj surgery)
Forgot trevor cahill too
Mazzaro definitely needs more seasoning. A full season at Sacramento would do him a lot of good.
1. Sheets
2. Duke
3. Anderson
4. Cahill
5. Braden/Gio
Um if Mazzaro needs seasoning why do you have Cahill in your rotation?1) Sheets2) Duke3)Anderson4) Braden5) Gio/DiNardo/Evenland (maybe)This will push both Cahill and Mazarro in AAA
Mazzaro was just entirely unimpressive in his big league debut.
Cahill had a solid start to the season, a rough middle, and finished up strong. And he head some stretches where he was very good…
May 2nd – June 22nd (11 starts): 3.15 ERA, 34 K, 18 BB, 6+ innings in 8 of 11 starts
August 11th – September 22nd (8 starts): 2.64 ERA, 25 K, 15 BB, 6+ innings in 5 of 8 starts
Cahill’s younger, but he’s much more polished and showed a lot more talent than Mazz. And, even with some sophomore lumps, I’d take him over DiNardo or Eveland any day. That’s why he’s in my rotation.
i wouldn’t let sheets be the number 1, a guy coming off surgery and he hasn’t pitched in a year will not equal an ace.
What options do they have? Duke is coming off injury/depression, and inferior to Sheets when both are healthy. While good so far, Anderson is pretty young. No one else is in the running.
Sheets or Anderson: gotta go with Sheets… for five weeks.
I hate numbers in starting rotations. In terms of expected results, I’d go Anderson, Duke, Sheets, Cahill, Braden. I only expect Braden to stick in the rotation because he’s probably one of the toughest people in the world. Gio seems a little too emotional at this point. I hope he can overcome that hurdle though, because he’s got top of the rotation stuff.
Anyways, the only reason I’ve got Sheets as the #1 in my rotation is because he’s the most experienced starter. If he’s healthy, he gets the ball on Opening Day. We’ll see what happens from there.
Out of all the AL West teams, the A’s were just not adding up to me…. The M’s definitely, and the Angel’s,(minus the salary restrictions) sure, the A’s?????? Damn, I can’t get over the fact of how big of a window licker Omar Minaya is, the guy needs to put his helmet back on, grab his crayons, and start drawing on walls again. WHAT A RETARD!!!!!!!!!!
lol!!!!
I don’t think you can blame Omar for not signing Sheets. o one expected Sheets to get 8M after missing a whole year. Mets had more to lose than the A’s. Fans expect the Mets to be in contention next year unlike the A’s.
LOL mets record was worse than A’s in 2009
LOL mets also had 100MM of their payroll on the dl, and only won 5 less games so I really don’t get what record has to do with anything.
Really the Met’s are expected to content? Lets hope so maybe losing Beltran for half the season and playing Gary Matthews Jr. will push them over the top..
HAHA That GMJ stuff still makes me feel retarded after reading it. For real, the Mets need a real GM, Minaya should be burned at the stake….. This coming from a Brewer’s fan….
Where do you get half the season from? It’s suppose to be 1 month and you never know Pagan could be taking over instead of GMJ so get your facts straight!
Its call sarcasm; its about the same level as saying the Met’s are contending in the NL East.
And its about the same level of you actually knowing what you’re talking about 🙂
Are you serious?
Mets have no rotation anymore. Bullpen is horrible
I dont know what baseball your watching
but the mets will not do anything this year
they had a worst record then the A’s last year lol
I would have liked to see a mutual option of ~$15M for 2011, but I guess Sheets is looking for that one last free agent score. If he stays healthy, someone is going to waste a ton of money on him in the winter of ’10-’11.
2011back to more FA shopping
Chavez, Ellis, Sheets, Crisp, Cust,Duchscherer all FA’s
Or deadline trade bait lol
Yep, complete trade bait. They’re overpaying, but if he’s right some contender will send them a nice prospect or two for him at the deadline.
With how low thier payroll was, this is a great move for the A’s. May as well use that extra money to try and get some prospects.
Worst signing this off season.
that would be Brad Penny or Polanco
money not much higher than brad penny
Yeah, but Brad Penny is healthy and has Dave Duncan. Penny is going to turn out great.
How do you figure?
Because he says so..or because the Met’s didn’t get him!
Because they dumped 10 million for 1 year into a guy who didnt touch the mound all of last year.. thats a hell of a gamble if you ask me.. especially if your a non-contending team like the A’s
10 million or not I will still be entertain by him pitching in the Green and Gold and knowing that he will buy sometime for Cahill and Mazzaro to work things out in the minor sounds good to me. Cause Cahill definitely needs to re-establish an offspeed pitch be it a change up or his knuckle curve..
Plus heck if he does pay and the A’s don’t contend the idea of him being trade bait isn’t all that bad either.
I love the Mets but being a Met fan right now is pathetic. A’s spend $$$ to get Sheets and we don’t? So let me get this straight we are supposed to sign Garland now? He’s the last available pitcher. That mean he will get overpaid and isn’t even an impact arm. Soooooooo stupid. I’m sick of caring
I think it’s going to be Smoltz.
Pedro
Whats wrong with Garland?
He’s OK
I figured he was going to get his 10M after all was said and done…I just thought it would be from the Mets.
Mets play it safe when they need to be aggressive. Pathetic .. and this is coming from a met fan
This pisses me off more than any Met move (or non-move) this offseason.
All I can think of is that the Wilpons aren’t letting Omar spend. Are we supposed to believe that the A’s, who draw 10K fans a game, are suddenly outbidding Mets for the players they want? They must think the fans are borderline retarded. The Mets are literally paying Oliver Perez more per year than the A’s are giving Ben Sheets. If he’s healthy, Ben Sheets is better than EVERY METS STARTER (besides Johan) put together. I mean, it’s not even close. If he’s healthy (and the physical went fine according to reports), this guy was such a no brainer it’s not even funny.
The lack of vision, strategy, leadership and simple common sense on this team disgusts me. Someone could probably fill a book with the bone-headed decisions, mistakes, PR disasters and screwups the Mets have made since 2006 alone.
Mets fans keep crying for every little. 10M for Sheets is overpaying the guy.
I think the Mets are making it pretty clear they’re not signing anyone of consequence. Unless they make a trade for a good starter they’re headed into 2010 with the rotation I mentioned plus Niese or Nieve. Whatever.
That also means they are gambling on those arms to get off to a good start -without Beltran for a month there will be added pressure on the pitching staff. And without that good start Citi Field is going to be a ghost town real quick; they won’t be able to give tickets away. No one’s going to watch SNY or listen to WFAN (except to complain), no one is going to buy any merchandise because no one wants to be laughed at.
Three years of misery leaves no margin, you can only insult the fans’ loyalty so many times. At some point the roof caves in.
…and the Mets do nothing…once again.
Is there any other BIG market team that is more frustrating to root for than the Mets?
Cubs??
At least the Cubs have new ownership. The team and the fasebase has hope for brighter days. Cub fans have to give them time to estabish themselves.
Isnt that what they do every year? Hope for brighter days? Cubs fans have endured more years of futility than the Mets have had in existence.
I have to believe that the Beltran incident killed the Mets’ chances for Sheets (and maybe others). Why would a young, high-profile, yet injury-prone pitcher agree to join an organization that has a documented track record of not taking care of the medical needs of their players?
The Mets FO made their own bed in this situation. In essence, Sheets is the anti-Bay, who was worried about the Bosox forcing surgery on him.
Until they rehab their health treatment image, the Mets may have to pursue only aging, desperate players. Players (and agents) do talk to each other.
10 million +?Looks like somebody forgot to renew his genius license. Again
Wait so if mets or some other team signed sheets its a great deal, A’s sign him its an over pay lol
Looks like some bitter and frustrated fans to me.
A’s had money to spend after offering the most money to scutaro and beltre. Then coming 2nd in chapman sweepstakes
Who knows man who knows..
Nop, who ever signed Sheets for 10m for me was going to be consider overpaying. Maybe a cry baby Met fan would tell you is a great deal if they signed him.
Good for the A’s. They got a good pitcher, when healthy. But when you consider that he’s coming off a shoulder injury that kept him out all of last season, you have to admit that Sheets got the better end of the deal.
It’s a good deal (not a GREAT deal) for a team like the A’s, because they’re essentially signing him for his trade value. If he pitches well, you’re going to get one good prospect and filler in return for him. If he pitches poorly, you’re out of the contract in a year.
For a team planning to CONTEND this year, it would be a bad deal…because you’re spending a bunch of money for a guy you’re probably counting on, who very well could flame out. The A’s aren’t counting on him at all – they know they’re not good enough to compete right now. Spending on him, taking that risk, isn’t going to jeopardize a season that’s already a rebuilding year.
10 mill plus incentives for this guy??? yea i know he was really good when he was 100% but what in the world are the A’s thinking. Alot of hopes and ifs here and IF he does good im guessing he gets traded at the deadline anyways for prospects.
Orioles spent 25 million total on tejada, atkins, millwood,and gonzalez
A’s spent 25 mill on contracts to sheets, cust, duchscherer, wuertz, crisp, kouzmanoff
And even if he pitches good, I don’t see teams giving a whole lot for him, why? he would still be a health question, probably a bigger one after pitching half of a season
If Sheets pitches like an ace, he is going to bring in at least $10 million worth of minor league talent from whoever the A’s trade him too.
Sheets will be wearing a different uniform by July 31st. Beane makes these kind of deals knowing he can get out of 1/2 the guaranteed contract dollar amount by trading the guy to a desperate contender for good prospects.
He basically signed Sheets for 5 million or so and when/if he trades him, he’ll basically have spent that money on prospects that probably cost more to draft/sign than what the A’s had to pay him.
The Mets dropped the ball here. I realize 10 million is a lot, but that is a team that needed an arm like this even with the risk involved.
Freddy Coupon and Puppet Omar can’t catch a break.
The signing makes me happy (closet B. Beane fan), but how does Oakland balance 8 starting pitchers. I know you can never have too much pitching, but what do you do with 3 extra arms?
1. D. Braden
2. T. Cahill
3. V. Mazzaro
4. B. Anderson
5. J. Duchscherer
6. G. Gonzalez
7. J. Outman
8. B. Sheets
#1 >> MLB Rotation
#2 >> AAA
#3 >> AAA Rotation
#4 >> MLB Rotation
#5 >> MLB Rotation
#6 >> MLB Rotation
#7 >> DL until July or so
#8 >> MLB Rotation
Give me sheets at1yr/ 10 mill, any day over piniero 2 yr/16 mill
I’ll take that bet. Let’s check at the end of the year who has more WAR.
..and the mets are losers AGAIN!
Damn, I certainly didn’t expect him to get that high of a base salary. But the A’s (who generally have pretty good management) must’ve really like what they saw. If he can throw 150+ innings, this is a good deal. Especially in Oakland’s park, a pitchers paradise.
Don’t love the deal, but Beane got Duscherer on a ridiculously good deal – I guess this sort of evens it out 🙂
BTW, stop blaming everything on Minaya. He is the GM, not the owner
Um you have to blame Minaya because he is the GM. Thats thier job as a GM and if they do something stupid, in this case sign a pitcher who you have no idea what the out come will be for 10 mil plus incentives, you get blamed.
Umm yeah, but what if he came with the offer to the owners and they said no? I mean 10M for Sheet in the AL after missing the whole year? for me is too much. Fans are buying too much into the what if thing. pray the guy doesn’t get any minor injury, if not he will be out for a whole month. Mets where plague with injuries last year, why pay 10M for a guy who at any moment could miss half of season and find yourself in the same situation? You still have guys like Washburn who will pitch a good amount of innings and could be good if brought to the NL.
Hello? Thats why I said the Sheets 1 year deal was a horrible idea for the A’s.
Omar went against the media last yr. you can’t go against the media and win. the media is connected in which these writers and fans don’t watch these team all the time so they read articles to get there scouting reports. the casual fan believes everything they read. Omar has put a championship caliber team every yr. the wrong player got hurt the last two yrs on top of Omar vs the Daily News. Its a losing formula.
Omar went against the media last yr. you can’t go against the media and win. the media is connected in which these writers and fans don’t watch these team all the time so they read articles to get there scouting reports. the casual fan believes everything they read. Omar has put a championship caliber team every yr. the wrong player got hurt the last two yrs on top of Omar vs the Daily News. Its a losing formula.
Thats like giving Jimmy Edmonds a one year 5-7 million dollar contract.
This 10 mil is something that had to be done. The A’s are getting so much in Revenue sharing and have one of the bottom 5 team payrolls in the league. They have to spend the money might as well spend on a player who will net rewards at the trade deadline.
I think the idea was “See, we are trying – Bay cost a lot of money!” as if Fans wouldnt notice that is all they were going to do.
But if Bay cost almost all the money they had to spend (which it kind of seems that way with how fickle they have been otherwise) then they should have never signed Bay and instead spent that money to fill a couple of the 7 or so holes they have.
The all your eggs in one basket route rarely ever pays off, but Omar seems intent on continuing to try that path.
———————————-
Exactly right, this is exactly the point. The Mets are laughable because they create their own problems. In October they’re all about making big moves, spending money, making trades, etc. And in reality they make one move, a good one, but one. And they really think people are going to continue to buy this crap. They are delusional; they convinced themselves that Aaron Heilman could pitch, and now they’ve convinced themselves that Pelfrey, Maine and Perez are all going to win 15 games.
This delusion has high costs. Division titles and playoff berths lost. Fans discouraged and bitter. And that leads to no one at the games, no one buying tickets, no buzz, no interest, nothing.
As a Mets fan, considering what’s left on the market, I’d prefer Omar did nothing major for the rest of the offseason….provided he spends on the draft.
I don’t understand why so many people are knocking this deal. Sure, $10 Mil is a lot for a guy like Sheets. But it’s only a 1 year deal so it wont hurt their future payroll flexibility. It’s not like the A’s had a great shot at winning the division anyway. Even with a healthy Sheets they’re probably still looking at 4th place. Might as well take a gamble and hope you can turn Sheets into a solid package of prospects by the deadline.
I think the A’s are taking on way too much risk in their starting rotation. They now have guys who didn’t play a game last year due to injury in both the 1 and 2 rotation spots? Really? They only won 75 games last year, if one of these guys gets hurt early they could be looking at a worse record very easily. You need more depth to take on a risk like this, and I don’t see that depth of MLB-ready pitching in the A’s system to put 2 high-risk players high in your rotation.
I think the main question I would have is did a team that only won 75 games last year and made no major improvements this winter even expect to contend in the first place? Sheets isn’t the missing piece and the A’s aren’t expecting him to be. He is, in all likelihood, a trade chip. As for their depth, Braden, Cahill, Mazzaro, Anderson, and Gonzalez are all capable of being starters in the big leagues in addition to Sheets and Duchscherer.
The mets miss out on another pitcher. Man what is minaya thinking the mets have no pitching after johan. Sheesh
I thought Sheets was going to be a Met and thought no way he gets the 10MM garanteed contract he was asking. I was wrong, wrong.
Same here, I thought that he would only get $7 million garanteed
I know I’m commenting late in the game and this has probably been said 100x but “$10 mil? Really?” Wow.
As for people banging on the Mets, lets get real. If they had signed Sheets for $10 mil then we would be calling Minaya a fool. The Mets desperately need Sheets, but $10 mil is crazy money.
PS-I hate the Sox and the Mets.
You really think Sheets is more of a risk than Pelfrey/Maine/Perez? For $10M when you’re already paying Perez $12M alone? Perhaps you don’t follow the Mets that closely but given what I’ve seen last three years it’s less of a risk.
yes he is. his injury cost him a full season. his injury cost the brewers a chance to go deeper in that playoff. having two 10+ contracts on the pitching staff that can easily end up in the bench is a bad deal.
yes he is. his injury cost him a full season. his injury cost the brewers a chance to go deeper in that playoff. having two 10+ contracts on the pitching staff that can easily end up in the bench is a bad deal.
This is a great deal. He could easily justify this contract in only half a year. And if he stays healthy he could supply the A’s with a playoff run or good prospects.
Bad Signing.
Even when he’s healthy, he’s usually only a #2 starter (3.82 ERA in both ’06, and ’07)
He’s not really a winner… don’t blame it on the team, if gil meche can win 14 games with KC, sheets should be able to consistently win 12 to 15…
now when he’s healthy, If he was always healthy, I think he could easy get a Burnett contract… or if he pitched at least 20 games last year, I think he could have gotten about 3 year/45m….
but if I were a gm (which I am obviously not), I wouldn’t have gone about 6m guaranteed, with like 6 million incentives
It’s just too much of a risk
And what adds to all this is, Sheets was freaking out this time last year saying he wants guaranteed money, and it turned out that he had an injury the whole time…
He played for the god awful Brewers for his entire career. They were good for about a year and a half when he was there..
Hey… I know calling them “God Awful” is pretty accurate, but can you put it a little more delicately? Like perhaps, “he played for the best losers in the NL Central” That makes my soul die a little less…. None the less, when healthy, Benny is an Ace. He didn’t even have a full season of Offense until 2007 and 2008, When I can vouch, he pitched like nobody I’ve ever seen(barring the 3 months of CC)
Obviously I meant AN OFFENSE, the guy is pitiful when at the plate
A’s are sleepers once again… elite defense, elite bullpen, potentially elite starting staff. offense is still a question mark, at best, but they have a lot of doubles hitters and speed. People forget they were a top 3 team in steals in the 2nd half last year after Holliday left. If Rajai Davis is the same guy he was last year this team can easily be a contender in the division.
Ok Ok Ok, B Sheets is now signed for a tremendous amount of money, so: Bedard rumors? More Garland rumors? P Martinez and Smoltz rumors? I mean really, there has been like 0 reporting on Bedard.
This is the news I was waiting for all day. The article may have well been titled “Athletics sign Ben Sheets thus making the Mets’ offseason a complete failure.”
I can see why both parties went after this deal:
Sheets – Getting the most $$$ available from ANY team willing to sign him.
A’s – Flipping him mid-season for prospects or holding for picks.
While it makes sense, how are the A’s fans not furious with the franchise? I’m of course talking about the “cycle”: develop prospects, flip them once their value is at it’s peak for more prospects, rinse and repeat. Now the A’s have added veterans to their plan as Sheets CLEARLY will not be in Oakland past 2010. For me, my personal feeling, having players around that I know will be there, to cheer for and get to know is part of the game. A’s fans have to be the most badly burned in this department: Giambi, Tejada, Hudson, Mulder, Zito (haha, just kidding), Swisher, Street, etc…
It will be hard to get prospects if he ends up on the disabled list. Big risk with this guy. A blister will side line him for a month. Billy Beane is pretty sharp so I am sure he has an angle with this deal.
10 mil? are you serious? terrible move! He’ll most certainly get injured again this year.
The amount doesn’t really matter as long as we got the guy because the A’s had the money to spend from the revenue sharing and needed to spend it anyways. This was probably the last move that needed to be made this offseason and now the final product for the 2010 A’s is probably complete unless a trade is on the horizon to bring in a big bat which I don’t really see coming until the trade deadline probably if the A’s are in contention.
What kind of comment is “he’ll almost certainly get injured again this year?” How do you know? Sheets has started 30+ games in four of his eight MLB seasons, and 20+ games in all but on of his eight seasons. How is “almost certain” he’ll get injured again? And, even if he does get injured, based on his injury history, it’ll likely knock him out for only a portion of the season, which is where the A’s depth at that position helps them out. In other words, even if he does get injured, it won’t be devastating to the A’s.
Also, assuming Sheets can start 20-30 games, he’s absolutely worth $10 million for one season. The guy’s averaged a 125 ERA+ over the last four seasons; he’s a bona fide ace; and, he allows Oakland to work out it’s pitching depth, and move everyone else down a slot in the rotation, without committing them to anything past the 2010 season. People are decrying this signing because the A’s won’t have Sheets past 2010; only, that’s the WHOLE POINT OF THE SIGNING — the A’s have plenty of pitching depth, they just needed an ace to slot into the rotation while they figure out who among all of their young pitchers is going to be the future of their rotation. This allows the A’s to stash Cahill, Mazzaro, Outman, and others in AAA for another season, and allows them to figure out which of those prospective studs will be part of the A’s rotation from 2011-2015. In other words, the contract works for the A’s precisely because it’s not a long-term commitment to an expensive ace who they don’t need in the future. Think before applying your one-size-fits-all philosophy to a signing.
As for one person’s comment, above, suggesting the “cycle” of develop-and-trade or develop-and-let-walk must be infuriating for A’s fans… It would be infuriating, if the A’s hadn’t been consistently competitive for the last decade using exactly that strategy. By the time most players are ready for free-agency, they’ve begun their decline phases anyway… why bother locking them up? Most teams don’t seem to get this, reflexivly locking up their veterans to expensive contracts because they’re “proven commodities.” The A’s have done better by letting expensive players walk, and by constantly re-stocking their farm system. The times they’ve arguably screwed up over the last few years is when THEY HAVE RE-SIGNED their own players (see, Eric Chavez, Jermiane Dye). I love the develop-and-trade strategy; it’s what keeps the A’s competitive with a low payroll.
But isn’t the problem that the A’s haven’t been competitive lately?
When they had Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Chavez, Tejada all coming up through the system they were a dang good team. Because they had All-Star level talent playing for league minimum they could afford to spend their money and get guys like Damon through a trade or FA signing. For a good solid 5-7 years the A’s were THE model franchise in baseball.
But now … you have to go back to 2006 to find the last relevant A’s team. All the way back to 2003 to find the last playoff team. I respect the heck out of the organization and think their future is incredibly bright BUT you can’t keep giving them a pass for 7 years of failure. 2010 isn’t shaping up as their year either. The Angels and Rangers could both win 90 games. Seattle will end up in the 80-85 range. The A’s will be lucky to be a 500 ball club.
This deal just makes no sense. Even if Sheets is healthy and can be flipped the A’s overpaid. I’d be shocked to hear that the Mets (or some other mystery team) was preparing an offer close to the A’s package.
Dude, the A’s were in the ALCS in 2006. They made the playoffs every year from 2000 to 2003; they came in 2nd in the AL West in 2004 and 2005; and then they went to the ALCS in 2006. So, we’re talking about seven straight years of success, capped by a trip to the ALCS, and then three down years (when they won 76, 75, and 75 games, respectively). How am I giving them a pass for “seven years of failure?” I’m just not clear on what your definition of failure is… or maybe you’re just confused.
Add Coco Crisp, Kouzmanoff, Ben Sheets, and Justin Duchscherer to last year’s team, and you get a competitive team. I’m not saying the A’s should starting thinking about their World Series rings, but you need to get your facts straight before you declare the A’s a failing organization.
10 mil? are you serious? terrible move! He’ll most certainly get injured again this year.
I love it! The A’s rotation is now so solid!
Justin D
Sheets
Anderson
Cahill
Gio G
solid bullpen
The A’s have the pitching! Now the hitting needs to come through.
People can hate on Oakland but only the season will decide if Beane’s moves pulled off
the AL West will be the divison to watch.
A’s rotation is solid, assuming everyone stays healthy (a big assumption with Sheets and Duke). IF those two stay healthy, our rotation is right there with the Angels as the class of the AL West (top-to-bottom). M’s are a close third, with the best 1-2, but a weak 3-4-5. Rangers are a distant fourth.
with the fiasco the Mets had last year dealing with injured players ( see Jeff Wilpon vs LA Dodgers Medical Staff )…why would anyone with a history of being on the DL want to come to the Mets…The Wilpons would make Sheets throw with his left arm if his right started acting up…
He’s going to have a good year, The scouts that watched the throwing sessions said he deserved 8 million. I think that means he had a hell of a session if 10 million was thrown towards him.
Dick, you didnt need to come back with an essay. Im not your english teacher. Now what i am trying to say is the guy missed a whole year and he comes back throws a little session and he gets 10 million. A little session should not determine how much he deserves. I dont know if its just me but that is insane to pay a man 10 mil after missing a whole season. And i dont care if they had the money to spend from the revenue sharing sheets shouldn’t have got 10 million coming back from missing a whole year. And dick i’ll bet you anything he does get hurt this year. You said he has gotten hurt half the time of his carreer, thats not good at all. He’s probably still hurt and pulled a fast one on the A’s and stole 10 million dollars.
There is always a physical…
It’s also important to point out that most of Sheets’s injuries occur at the halfway point of the season.So, an injury risk that could occur around the time he would be dealt. Plus, the fact that he’s signed for 10 million means the A’s will probably have to kick in some money into any potential deal, since he is being vastly overpaid, in order to get any value in return.Overall…yeah, I agree with you. Bad signing.
EDIT: While it is true he has pitched 200+ innings in half of his seasons, I would like to point out that, after his career high-year of 237 innings pitched, he went on to pitch 156, 106, and 147 innings with 22, 17, and 24 games started each. Then, when he finally managed to stay healthy long enough for 198 innings, he broke down again and probably cost his team any chance at winning in the postseason. Overall, it doesn’t look too promising.
Once again, why does everyone automatically assume he’s going to be dealt or that he’s going to be injured. The A’s like any other team have their chances to win just as much as any other team and they appear to have a very strong team going into the season anchored by what could be a top 5 pitching staff. Also, Sheets has pitched full seasons before and he can very well do it again. We are not dealing with Rich Harden anymore because he misses games annually. Sheets has pitched all 30 something of his starts before and he could very well do this again. With Sheets and Duke at the top of the rotation there are 2 aces anchoring the rotation and there are many more guys that could step in and be very solid as well.
Im not trying to be a jerk or anything but for me i dont really see the A’s being contenders especially with the new improved mariners team. It will be a tight race. and maybe you are right and im wrong, maybe the A’s will be contenders in the AL west.
Stating one’s opinion is definitely not “being a jerk.” You’re 100% right; A’s are definitely not the favorites to win the West, but I could see them staying around .500 (assuming Sheets and Duke can stay healthy). With a little luck (and a little bad luck from the Angels), the A’s could at least be in the race in September, which is generally all a non-Yankee/RedSox fan can hope for.
The M’s “new improved” team is getting a little too much hype in my opinion. Yes, they have a great 1-2 in Felix & Lee, but after that their rotation is garbage (Ian Snell, Rowland-Smith, Lucas French). Add in a complete lack of power on offense (do they have one player who realistically projects at 20+ HR for 2010?), and you have a team with some glaring weaknesses, even while they do have some really strong strengths (namely, great defense, lots of speed, and good power pitching).
There’s way too much hype floating around for the Mariners and Rangers.
As Dick points out below, who’s starting for the Mariners after Felix and Lee? Who’s hitting for power? Who’s catching? Who’s playing left? Are they expecting career years from Aardsma, Lowe and White again? How much of an automatic out is Junior going to be this season?
For the Rangers… How many starts is Harden going to make? How well will he fare in Arlington after spending his entire career in Oakland and the NL? Can Scott Feldman win 17 games again? How will Colby Lewis fare in his return to MLB? Who are the 4/5 starters? Can Hamilton stay healthy? Is Julio Borbon ready to be the starting CFer? Can either Salty or Teagarden establish himself as a big league catcher? How many times will Chris Davis strike out?
Those two teams have just as many questions as the A’s do, and the Angels, minus Figgins and Lackey, are clearly a big step below where they were last season.
I havent really heard much about the rangers so i dont think they are being overhyped. I think they will have another good year.
For the mariners, i dont have answers for all those questions but i am sure they will be answered by jack Z. You gotta give this team some credit for what they have done. They improved last year now they are better imagine how much better they are going to be next year. And you dont always need a power when you have speed to help you score runs.
Absolutely 100%. Jack Z has come in and put his stamp on the organization and the Mariners franchise is, by all objective and subjective measures, moving in the right direction. I just think people are overreacting a little to the 1-2 of Felix and Lee, and forgetting (1) that someone not named Felix or Cliff has to start 55-60% of their games, and (2) they’ve still got to put runs on the board. Sure, they’ll prevent a lot of runs in 40-45% of their games with Lee and Felix pitching and their amazing D, but there’s still the other 55-60% of their games where they will start below-average pitchers, and still have a crappy offense.
The Angels are still the best team in the AL West (especially if Kazmir pitches like he did in the second half last season). The Mariners? — I could see them finishing anywhere from 1st to 4th (suffering a blowout like the DBacks did last season when Webb and Haren were supposed to lead them to glory).
Absolutely 100%. Jack Z has come in and put his stamp on the organization and the Mariners franchise is, by all objective and subjective measures, moving in the right direction. I just think people are overreacting a little to the 1-2 of Felix and Lee, and forgetting (1) that someone not named Felix or Cliff has to start 55-60% of their games, and (2) they’ve still got to put runs on the board. Sure, they’ll prevent a lot of runs in 40-45% of their games with Lee and Felix pitching and their amazing D, but there’s still the other 55-60% of their games where they will start below-average pitchers, and still have a crappy offense.
The Angels are still the best team in the AL West (especially if Kazmir pitches like he did in the second half last season). The Mariners? — I could see them finishing anywhere from 1st to 4th (suffering a blowout like the DBacks did last season when Webb and Haren were supposed to lead them to glory).
Look, the A’s have a chance to better their win total from last year, but barring a “lightning in a bottle” situation they’re just not as good ON PAPER as any of the teams in their division. It’s a question of talent level…and they come up short. Also, I’m sorry, but calling Duch “an ace” when he’s never pitched more than 142 innings (and only over 100 once) is just pipe-dreaming. He can be a good pitcher, yes, but take off the homer glasses. A top 5 rotation? You’ve got to be kidding. They have Duch and Sheets and 3 guys who struggled (and failed) to keep their ERA under 4. Strong team? Do they even have a starter who put up an OPS over .800 last year?Of course the A’s have a chance, just like everyone else does…but to think a mid-season trade wasn’t prominent in Billy’s mind when he offered this contract is just foolish. The A’s are looking to build for the future, and this signing will help that. They are not, IMO (and the prevailing opinion of writers), ready to compete this season.
Thanks for showing me that you don’t follow this team as closely as I do. Duke may have never pitched more than 142 innings but that is only because he was a long reliever before and he was a damn good long reliever too. In his 4 seasons as a long reliever, he has had 2 seasons where his ERA was under 3 and 1 of those was when he got injured that his ERA was over 4. His last season that he pitched as a starter, he had an ERA under 3 again and a ridiculous 1.0 WHIP for a starter. You don’t get that kind of WHIP even on a lucky year unless you really know what you’re doing. He dominated teams like the Red Sox and other teams that had great offenses.3 guys who struggled to keep their ERA under 4? Dallas Braden and his 3.89 ERA says hello to you. You also failed to notice that Brett Anderson was dominating teams down the stretch. In September/October, Anderson had an ERA of 2.23. Anderson’s April and May numbers are horrible because he was struggling to figure it out in the big leagues at 1st but he was able to turn it around and he will be a very good big league starter.I never said that the offense was great so I don’t even know why you’re throwing that out there. I know the offense still needs to prove itself but there is hope because this is the same type of offense that led to a 17-10 finish in September for the A’s. I don’t have homer glasses on it’s just that there is a lot to be excited about for this team and it takes a REAL A’s fan to realize it.
Ah! You’re correct, I forgot about Braden. I was figuring on Anderson, Cahill, and Gio. Anyway, so take TWO of those guys, and my point still stands. They’re all young, which is great, but to expect adding Sheets and Duch to propel them from an 11th-ranked staff to Top-5 (in the AL, let alone all of baseball…I wasn’t sure which you meant) is highly, HIGHLY unlikely…and “dominating down the stretch” doesn’t count. The games in May count just as much as those in Sept.
As for Duch, I never said the guy sucked. He can be very good, but to call a 32YO guy who just missed the entire prior season, hasn’t pitched more than 140, and spent most of his career in the bullpen an “ace” makes no sense to me. Halladay, Lincecum, Felix, Santana, Grienke…those are aces.
As for me mentioning the offense…you said they “appeared to have a very strong team”. That generally includes the offense…and the A’s offense is not strong right now.
I never said there was nothing to be excited about. Heck I can’t wait to see what Taylor can do…I think the kid’s going to be a stud.
I never said the A’s were a bad team. I said right now, they don’t look to be prepared to compete against the teams in their division…and I don’t think they are. Two years? Very possible. But in 2010, you’re watching a rebuilding team…and that’s why Sheets is trade bait.
The periphoral numbers for Duke are just ridiculous for 142 innings pitched and he has been doing that throughout his career. It wasn’t as if it was a 1 year wonder sort of thing because he has been doing this for a good 4 years. You can’t find many other pitchers that put up the numbers in similar amount of innings very much. If he stays healthy, he can pitch the amount of innings and still maintain the great periphoral numbers that will make him an ace. I don’t think that you give Anderson enough credit because even with the crappy April and May, he still ended up with a 4.06 ERA and he piled on the Ks at the end of the season. Very close to bumping his ERA below 4. He was a rookie not a seasoned vet. If he was a seasoned vet with crappy April and Mays then I wouldn’t be so high on him as a #4 starter. If this team maintains the same kinds of numbers that they did toward the end, the additions of Sheets and Duke to the rotation would allow them to make the playoffs.
The most amazing part about their 17-10 finish is that they lost the last 7 games. I would attribute some of it to the rookies never pitching this many innings and that management also wanted to limit their innings toward the end as well which taxed the pen a bit too much as well. Plus they were throwing guys out like Edgar Gonzalez and Dana Eveland as long relievers when the youngsters pitched like 2-4 innings in those games. You have your opinion and I have mine and this team looks ready to compete.
finally someone is seing what i see.
I think plenty of people see what you see. Lots of people think this was a bad signing.
I’m not sure why it matters when most of Sheets’ injuries occur and, assuming you’re right that most of his injuries do occur near midseason, that timing could work out just fine for the A’s — either (1) the A’s will have dealt him already (Beane tends to make his in-season trades about a month before the deadline, presumably so he has his pick of other teams’ prospects) and the injury’ll be someone else’s problem (as was the case with Freddy Sanchez and the Giants last season, as well as Jarrod Washburn and the Tigers); or, (2) the A’s will have gotten three-to-four months of Ben Sheets, and hopefully one of their young pitching prospects will have developed during the extra 3-4 months in AAA (and the A’s might even pick up some draft picks when he leaves in free agency).
Also, Ben Sheets contract is not so expensive that a team that wants him for the stretch run would ask the A’s to kick in money to get the deal done. Assuming Sheets gets dealt between 6/30 and 7/31, he’d be owed about $3.3 million to $5 million for the balance of the season; any team that’s in contention (which would be the teams wanting Sheets) would hardly balk at that price tag for Ben Sheets, not when he could be “the difference” between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs. The idea that, because he’s making $10 million, the A’s will have to kick in money to get a deal done when they trade him, is way off base. If Sheets is pitching like an ace, the A’s will get good prospects in return. If he’s just average, they may not be able to deal him at all. But either way, the deal won’t be a salary dump, and the A’s won’t have to kick in money to deal Sheets.
As for the season-long IP numbers; those are interesting. Staying healthy is absolutely a skill; and some players don’t stat healthy as well as others. Let’s hope Sheets takes his conditioning seriously, and works for his real retirement plan (the multi-year deal he’ll get after going 15-10 with a 3.20 ERA this season), rather than mailing it in and treating the A’s $10 million as his retirement plan.
That’s a lot of ifs.
IF he is pitching like and ace and IF he is healthy then sure – the A’s won’t have a problem moving him. Those are both high risk propositions. Sheets has always been injury prone. Now on top of that we have NO idea how well he will pitch post major injury.
This is a sink or swim move. If the stars align properly the A’s will look like geniuses. If they don’t, the team blew 25% of their payroll on a guy who contributes very little.
Agree. It is a lot of “if”‘s. But that’s what the A’s (like many other small-market teams have to deal with). The A’s can’t go out and get “sure things” like CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, and John Lackey, so they have to take flyers on one-year show-me deals like Ben Sheets. If I expected sure things, I’d be a very disappointed A’s fan.
I think this is a good gamble. The A’s had a little money to spend, but they didn’t want to throw a bunch of money at a long-term commitment. They aren’t really expected to compete for a title this year, but with a front three of Sheets, Duke, and Anderson,* they could remain competitive in the AL West (much as the Giants did last year in the NL West, even though they weren’t realistically a World Series contender).
The offense won’t be good; in fact, it could be pretty bad. But, it’s made up of scrappy dudes who will make opponents work, and the A’s will put one of the best defenses in the major leagues out there every day (again, assuming everyone stays healthy).
* Muggi, below, does not give Brett Anderson enough props. In my opnion, Brett Anderson is the top pre-arb starting pitcher in the AL right now. Better than Matusz and Tillman (based on the fact he’s already had success for a half-season at the MLB level); better than Buchholz (because Buchholz stinks); better than Porcello and Scherzer (based on MLB performance, although Porcello’s close); better than Joba (again, Anderson’s pitched better as a SP than Joba); better than Kevin Slowey (not sure if he’s still pre-arb); better than Derek Holland; and, better than Rzepcznski and Marcum. The only guys who come close to Anderson are the Rays’ top three young pithcers: Dave Price, Wade Davis, and Jeff Niemann, but as with the others above, Anderson’s had better success at the MLB level than any of them. You can talk all you want about his youth, but the guy’s been prepping to be a MLB pitcher since he was like two years old with his dad as a coach. He’s already a top-notch pitcher, and he’s only going to get better.
Which is exactly the point…no long term commitment to handicap the 2011 and beyond teams while making a calculated risk to at least contend in a weaker AL West in 2010. Sure there are “ifs”, but its only money–no future projected players involved. If Sheets bombs, then the A’s are out 10 mil that was not going to be spent for any other free agent and nothing else. If he pitches well, and they contend in a mediocre division, then they go for it. If he pitches well and the team bombs, then off he goes to a contender before the deadline. The only risk involved is money that does not hinder any future moves.
Lots of moves coming outta the AL West..
That is gonna be one fun division to watch this season!!!
25%? The A’s only have a 40 million dollar payroll this season? Cheap ass bastards!
so which team do you think will get Sheets at the trade deadline? haha