7:30pm: ESPN's Jorge Arangure says (via Twitter) that if the Yankees don't sign Chapman, he'd be willing to bet that it has more to do with makeup than money.
5:49pm: Ken Rosenthal of FoxSports.com tweets that the Reds are in on Chapman, however the Jays remain the favorite. In a second tweet, Rosenthal mentions that Toronto has money to spend after sending Scott Rolen, Alex Rios, and Roy Halladay packing.
4:00pm: Jon Heyman of SI.com tweets that the Blue Jays have a "decent shot" at signing Chapman, now that they appear to have bid over $20MM. He names the Nationals, Marlins, Red Sox, A's and Angels as potential players for the prospect.
12:11pm: As the Aroldis Chapman sweepstakes continue, at least one outlet is reporting that the Blue Jays have made the left-hander a considerable offer. Jorge Ebro of El Nuevo Herald reports that the Jays offered Chapman a $23MM deal (click here for the Miami-based paper's original Spanish story and here for some Drunk Jays Fans analysis).
Ebro reports that the Marlins raised their offer to $16MM, but have now conceded defeat. Clark Spencer of the Miami Herald reported yesterday that the Marlins did not expect to sign Chapman. That leaves the Angels, Red Sox and Blue Jays in pursuit of the Cuban prospect.
Sounds to me like the Jays have made the highest offer, but Champan probably prefers to play for the Sox or Angels.
Come on people, it’s gonna be about money and career opportunities, not language and weather.
People keep talking about weather, about languages. He’d have stayed in Cuba if he wanted Cuban weather and a familiar dialect….
The guys looking to sign a contract, not buy a house, find a home, meet a women.
He can live wherever he wants during the off season. During the season he’s on the road half the time, Toronto is about as immigrant friendly as a city gets and warm as most places if not more so.
$23m for how many years?
it would like signing a minor league free agent…he’d be controlable for 6 years after he makes the majors…say he spends this year and part of next in the minors….he wouldn’t be elidgable for free agency until 2018….as for cubans coming to canada, they need to be approved for a tourist/visiting visa, and is usually only granted if they have family living in canada legally…
5 years probably all at league min (MLB/Minor). The big money is all a signing bonus.
It would be good for the overall competitive balance in Baseball if the Blue Jays signed this kid. There are risks involved with this signing but the other prospects the Jays recevied from the Marniers and Phillies there is hope for baseball in Toronto.
It might not sound like a big deal in the blogosphere, but, I think the Spanish-speaking community part of it looms large, so the overpay might be to offset that. I don’t actually know what the details are like for Toronto, but I am not sure if there is a large Latin-American community found there. Anyone? Just imagine choosing to go somewhere where a language gap might make the most ordinary things a little more difficult. Having some kind of basic community already in place would help, a la the way Asian-American communities on the West Coast seems to help make Asian players transition to the big leagues fairly easily at this point.
Hullo is right. Like 95% of athletes, he will most likely just go wherever offers him the most money.
None of us have any idea if he cares whether or not he plays in a city with a good chance to win soon (Boston, LA) or a city with a high hispanic population (LA) or in a country with no restrictions about visiting Cuba (Toronto).
For all we know, he may not care about any of that.
Unless he’s a very different athlete, he’ll go wherever pays him the most.
I think when it comes down to it, it’s really just about money and that’s 95% of the decision. He isn’t going to take a 6$ million paycut just due to language barriers. I still don’t believe the Jays offered Chapman that much, after all – this is just from Florida sources. If JP was still in charge, he’d be personally telling us how much he bid on Chapman. I still say the Red Sox take Chapman for 27$/5 ish. Cannot see the Jays going higher than 20/5.
Why wouldn’t the Jays go higher? THey saved more than that from Rios and Halladay this year already. The ownership group will spend money if they think it’s the right thing to do. They’d go with a $120M payroll if there was reason for it.
your red sox bias is clouding your brain.
Toronto has a huge immigrant population, but its mostly Africans and Asians. Only 2.6% of the population is of Latin American descent.
I would guess the Angels are the frontrunners. Big media market, nice weather, larger Spanish-speaking population, and Kendry Morales.
Yes, my comments aren’t meant to imply that Canada at large isn’t an open and multicultural place. At all. For instance I think there are few US cities that can compete with how much, say, Vancouver has embraced Asian communities. The Latin communities of Toronto is just what I was wondering about. I am not knowledgable about that at all so any knowledge is welcome!
If something preventable like a language barrier could be an obstacle to your long-term success, you could argue that 6M difference today would pay off in millions and years more later.
Though I don’t disagree. Money is a major factor, of course. I am just pointing out that there are other factors than just pure money. For instance, Vladimir G turned down significant millions and years more to play in a more Spanish-friendly environment in Anaheim, way back when.
So every young Spanish-speaking player should just go to Florida because of the language? What nonsense is that. If you really think that a prospect with major potential will be successful in the Bigs only if he’s surrounded by similar speaking people, you’re delusional.
You’re taking my words too an extreme to make your argument. All reports suggest that he doesn’t speak a lick of English. The Jays staff and roster tends to lack Latin born players or coaches. Other teams, not necessarily FLA teams, have some ability to support players with a Latin background. Some are just better at it than others, and has a rep to be so. The Jays just aren’t one of them. It’s not a knock against the Jays; it’s just one of those things. There was a time when, say, the Mets had that kind of rep, until Omar Minaya was hired and changed it thru signings and baseball academies. You don’t just accidentally make that transition. you have to actually try.
“It’s one of those things” that really doesn’t matter. It’s the equivalent argument to speaking about intangibles, grit and chemistry of a baseball team. It’s all drivel. Unless you’re Roy Halladay, it simply comes down to: who is offering the most money?
Again. I am not saying money is insignificant. At all. I am just saying that cultural factors are a factor. In other words, it translates into a team without the infrastructure to support him to pay a little more to offset those kinds of obstacles. A team like FLA starts at zero when they bid; A team without that same advantage might have to bid with a handicap.
I am not going to continue this because it seems like you want to make take my argument to an extreme that I am not making for the sake of an internet debate.
Alex Gonzalez, Edwin Encarnacion, Jose Bautista, Raul Chavez… I’m sure a young Cuban could find some friends in Toronto…
Toronto has a vibrant Hispanic community, Although it is only 3-4% of 6,000,000. It is still a significant amount of people. Up to 200,000 people.
I think the lack of income tax in NV and NH may play big as well.
You can’t compare Toronto to Southern California from a Hispanic/Latin American perspective. I’ve lived in one place and visited the other. They are not in the same ballpark.Sure money can be a deciding factor. But when you are talking about a million or two spread out of a $23-25m contract these other factors do come into play. Having friends on the team, the success of the team, the location all weigh into a decision like this. I’m not suggesting that he will be an Angel. However, I bet if the Angels offer is within a million or two the other intangibles could sway him to So Cal.
no kidding about the comp. I wasn`t suggesting that, just that toronto is no white winter wasteland, is all.
No one said Toronto, or Canada for that matter, is a cultural abyss. Not by any means. We’re just talking about Latin-American communities in Toronto.
I agree with bjsguess, pretty much as eloquently he puts it. The Latin-American community being in place in the city in question won’t necessarily make a contract prohibitive in itself, but if all other things are more or less equal, it could be a deciding factor. There’s no lack of very generous bids here, so why not?
Best perspective on this topic yet. Kudos.
If Chapman is/was looking for a vibrant Cuban community, then he would have to look nor further than Miami and take the 16m, or whatever the exact figure the Fish are offering.
I have a good feeling that most of the posters here have -0- clue exactly how strong/large the Cuban population in south Florida actually is.. Well, it is very large and many do not even speak English. It has changed very much over the last 25-30 years. This would be the ideal place for a recent Cuban immigrant, especially after the mariel boat lift when the entire area changed. If that was the sole criteria, imagine Chapman would have already signed on the dotted line.
Cash, instructors and above all, a path to the majors are almost certainly what is driving his wish list and not some kind of Spanish speaking homeys. Why people keep bringing this up for all races…
Aroldis Chapman is going to be the next….wait for it…. Jose Contreras!! Whoo Hoo!!
Yeah. We have to be careful about the latest and greatest International Import star. Most of these guys don’t come close to their hype. The only ones in recent memory are Ichiro and Hideki Matsui. The others are names like Soriano, Irabu, Contreras, Dice-K, Cano, etc. It should also be mentioned that none of them are fullout busts either though. They’ve all to some degree proven to be quality players, maybe not stars, but at least the ones who aren’t “past their prime” at the time of import have made contributions.
I would call Irabu and Contreras total BUSTS. One thing to consider is how many of them actually played up to the kind of money dumped on them from the outset?? Very few.
Those two were stars in their former leagues after strong young careers, but came into the majors at about 30 yrs old (probably older in Contreras’ case). Irabu was a somewhat bust. Though Contreras did prove to be a reliable veteran pitcher who might not have been a star, but he had some All-Star seasons, and has been a productive pitcher. If a “bust” is a guy who doesn’t become a star, then I agree with you. Though if a “bust” is a player who is of no major league value whatsoever then, I agree with Irabu (more or less) but not on Contreras.
What about Hideki Okajima? Just curious where you value him. I know he didn’t have as good of a year last year, but he has consistently been a strong performer for the Red Sox bullpen.
Ahh but I just realized…not mentioned because he wasn’t hailed as a star coming to the U.S. Funny though, that he has been much more important for the Sox than Dice-K who DID come in with that supposed star power. Watch out for Dice-K though: I have a feeling he might go crazy (good) next year.
Yeah, I meant to just include the list of international players who came into the league with buzz. Okajima was/is a solid player if you ask me. Strong bargain signing.
@ Jay C
Canadian sports team (Jays, Raptors and Leafs) pay teams in US dollars not Canadian..
But with the way your country is killing your dollar, Chapman might be better off signing a contract in Canadian dollars. (Or I guess he could just buy it in US and play with some futures/options, he may even be able to sign a contract that pays him in whatever currency is higher at the time).
No matter how weak the dollar may be the Canadian currency will be weaker.
Likely true, but immaterial because theres no way that sort of contract would ever happen.
I’ll go ahead and give you a couple minutes to look up the historical innacuracy of that statement and then wait for you to come back with a retraction….
and on a BASEBALL related note. I really hope the Jays pull this off. I don’t really care about the $ since it’s not my $, I only care about the talent (or in this case potential).
What a ridiculous statement.
Jays may be gunshy after rios/wells deals. Sounds like this is not a “sure” thing. I’d take cano, dice-k, soriano any day. Also Boston has Jose Iglesias in the farm which this guy is fairly close with. Not sure if he knows Kendry Morales more (or less). Like to see in Tor or Fla to simply balance out the ML. I am a huge Boston fan, but I think enough is enough, spread some of the wealth.
One advantage I like for the Jays is AA’s ability to speak Spanish. Along with some of the other things Toronto has going for it, Chapman might appreciate being able to have a face-to-face convo with AA without using interpreteurs.
i agree…he speaks 4 languages…gotta help…he was raised by greek parents, taught himself spanish, was raised in montreal in and english/french community
Mike Scioscia and the majority of the Angels team – – let alone hispanic Ownership – – speak spanish, and this has worked in the past to entice latin players.
Further, the Reds have Mario Soto who has been working with their young pitchers along with having Cueto, Volquez, and Cordero on staff as well as Hernandez at catcher…so I think that all major players have their own advantage in spanish speaking options
I hear the Angels are hours away from signing Chapman. He said he doesn’t want to play baseball in Cananda. Canadians don’t even like baseball. Why would someone risk their life to get out of Cuba and get to the Majors to play in Toronto? Nothing against Blue Jays fans but admit it, Canadians don’t care about baseball.
Another reason he wouldn’t be smart to go to Toronto is the Blue Jays don’t have much hope of getting to the playoffs since they’re in the AL East.
You are an enlightened individual…cheers to that, and i agree with you. I continually fail to understand why fans from NY and to a lesser extent Boston, have this unyeilding desire to possess every piece of existing or future talent which will in the end turn hurt the game. Should there really only be two teams that have such high payrolls, and allstars at every position (and on the bench) so that it becomes a forgone conclusion as to who will win every year?
This would be a great move by the Blue Jays to overpay now to get Chapman…It’s a gamble but if this kid pans out to be #1/#2 for 5/23M would be peanuts…Though I do believe that if the Angles are close to this # as in $$/Yrs than I would give a huge edge to the Angles with the Morales connection and SoCal (Mass Spanish Population) that could very well influence his final decisions as a better transition point to the States.
In regards the comments about the language barrier, the Jays actually have a pretty good mix of Spanish speakers at all levels of their system except maybe AAA Las Vegas, although admittedly it’s a more Dominican flavoured mix. Assuming he’d be starting at AA he’d be alongside fellow Cuban Kenny Rodriguez, as well as the likes of Sierra, Polanco, Estanga, etc…
I reckon the language barrier while a factor is really only a limited one.
Yup. If you want to take stock in language barriers, food they eat and other gobbidygook -> Kenny Rodriguez, fellow team-mate and friend of Chapman would actually be PLAYING with Chapman this year. Unlike, Victor Martinez who speaks Spanish but would be gone by the time Chapman hits the Bigs… same goes for Kendry Morales.
I read this on another forum, and I am really starting to feel this way..
Wouldn’t the Jays be much better off signing 20 Dominican stars for approx a mill each, than give Chapman 24 million.. If Chapman we’re signed would a team trade 24 Dominicans they gave a million dollar signing bonus to get him? That would be the most lopsided trade of all time…
Imagine if the Yankees would have taken the 45 mill (or whatever it was) for Igawa and sunk that into pure Domincan prospects, they would have the best farm system in the Majors!
Yeh. SERIOUSLY. The Jays are a traditionally cost-conscious club. It’s not so much that this is out of character that bothers me (even though it is), but it sounds like a “message” type of bid, but at what cost?
It’s a pretty risky move for the Jays. Not that they are a “small-market” club in the usual sense, but, if they invest this much in Aroldis, that means HE HAS TO BECOME a #1-2 SP. No other option. If he becomes a “Servicable #3 type” or a Dice-K type of career what does that do to their investment?
25$ for 6-7 years of a very high ceiling young player is not a risk for the Jays, even if Chapman flames out. Does a cost-conscious club give a closer a 48$ million contract? Blue Jays ownership made billions last year, they are willing to spend IF it’s for making the club a consistent winner down the road. Best way to do that is to stockpile high-ceiling long-controllable young players. Technically, the Jays have $30 million to spend this year from the money saved from Rolen, Rios and Halladay. Why not use it? (P.S. Toronto is one of biggest markets in baseball.)
No matter how you phrase it, it’s functionally a 23-25M contract to a “prospect” who has never thrown a ball competitively in the US.He’s a special talent who has international experience, but if he came up thru the states, he’d be a lottery pick 22 yr old (and probably tested thru the college system). A 23M mlb contract would shatter the recently set record by #1 pick Stephen Strasburg (4/15M). Many teams scoff at 6M signing bonuses that are much less major committments (non-MLB contracts).
Spin it however you want. I’m not knocking Toronto. I hope they get him and he’s a huge success for them, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a risk, calculated or not. Deal with it.
If he becomes a serviceable number 3 for the price of an initial 25 million dollar contract and is controllable through 2017….. To answer your question it’d be a hell of a steal.
get it out of your heads, right now, that he needs to become and Ace or #2 for the deal to be worthwhile.
If he became a number 3 type of arm… at 5 mill per year plus controllability till close to 2020, find me that type of deal on the free agent market…….
He’s 22.
If he were born here, he’d either be drafted this season out of college, or, continuing his minor league career after being drafted out of HS. Asking him to be a #3 MLB starter right now would be the same as asking him to have, say, Felix Hernandez’s first full season. The kid has not even ever pitched anything close to a 200IP season.
I’m not trying to suggest that you should be overly happy if he turns out to be just an above average starter, just that if he became a solid #3 you’d have to view that as, at the very least, a solid addition and not the bust some of you suggest.
I agree with you. If he turns out to be a #3 MLB SP then it can only be viewed as a success. The point is that, it’s not even garuanteed that he’ll even reach the big leagues. He’s basically a prospect. Most of these international imports are vets of another league in the world. Chapman is still a very young player.
Toronto is a very multicultural city — some say the most successful in the world. Naturally we can’t compete with New York or South Florida for Latin American culture, but there are skads of Spanish speaking people here and many of our baseball stars over the years, Fernandez, Bell, Griffin, Alomar, Delgado have been from South and Central America. Pre-Ricciardi we were the destination team for young players from the Dominican. Chapman will thrive here, and once he works out his hassle back home, there’s a very free flow of people back and forth to Cuba, which might also attract him.
For the record on the Canadian dollar. It’s almost always been valued lower against the U.S. dollar, but that’s been by design. You are by far our biggest trading partner. If our goods cost less, for currency reasons, that’s a big competitive advantage. Historically our dollar lives at about 75-80 cents U.S. on average, which is also a nice boon if you’re paid in US dollars. And we get stuff for our taxes. Like universal high quality, free health care. All kinds of good reasons to play in Canada.
I’m not so sure about “high quality”, but it’s definitely universal, free health care (no premiums!).
Technically it isn’t free either since we pay huge taxes.
The term “huge” is only relative to the US. And I’m OK with the taxes. Live in Europe for a while and you’ll know what I’m talking about 😮
It’s high quality, trust me. Look up Sick Children’s Hospital in Toronto. Best on the planet. I love your country, but people down there seem scared that government controlled anything is crap, and I understand that, but this is one area that works up here. My father had a complete quadruple bypass performed at a world-class heart facility that has been a complete success. Follow-up checkups close to his home, all meds and tests covered, ongoing monitoring. Cost to him: $0. Same thing if your grandmother has a stroke or your child has leukemia. It’s not perfect, nothing is, but it’s very good and hasn’t bankrupted the economy.
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I can respect that. You obviously have had more experience with it than I have.
My beef is with waiting times, basically.
Thanks for the background info. I just raised it because in so many cases in the recent past when contract extensions with quality Latin players have come up with Toronto, like Delgado and Alomar, the star player tends to choose to leave Toronto. Maybe it’s just perception. Maybe it’s a J.P. regime thing too. I don’t mean to knock the city at all. I actually love Canada (more Montreal and Vancouver for me though).
Our health care in Canada is not quality. Stop lying.
Why is 5mil over 5 or six years risky—they pay good bench players that dude. If he can be a serviceable no 3 for 5 mil I am happy with that
No matter how you phrase it, it’s functionally a 23-25M contract to a “prospect” who has never thrown a ball competitively in the US.
He’s a special talent who has international experience, but if he came up thru the states, he’d be a lottery pick 22 yr old (and probably tested thru the college system). A 23M mlb contract would shatter the recently set record by #1 pick Stephen Strasburg (4/15M). Many teams scoff at 6M signing bonuses that are much less major committments (non-MLB contracts).
its funny how people temd to think its a high risk move for the jays, this contract even say at 5 years 25 milion is peanuts EVEN if he never makes the bigs or at best becomes a long reliever or something it wouldnt even put a dent in the jays potential cap down the road. people who dont follow toronto dont realise that. this is the perfect oppurtunity to splurge with all the room theyver saved ona high ceiling controllable prospect, completely goes with what AA was saying about his plan for the jays. ofcourse if the jays get him teams who wanted him will say oh you guys overpaid, hell be a bust, etc, but the funny thing is it would not matter in the least, especially since 17 million will be coming off the books for next year, and our payroll is already around 60 mill , this would be a brilliant move by AA, whather it works out or not, it shows his willingness to bring us back to 92-93 ina few years. Do what you gotta do AA you got my vote!
Peanuts if he never makes it to the majors? 5 mil. a year in the team payroll means nothing, no dent at all?
I wish my team was this loaded!
i don’t see the red sox or angels going higher than the jays in the pursuit of chapman . the jays made a solid offer of 23 million . thers far more reasons for chapman to want to go join the jays than any other team. the only “reason” that the angels have is that chapman is good friends with morales. what? so? does this mean hes not going to make any friends if he joins a different club? i dont see the red sox raising their offer of 15.5 million. they would have to offer 3-4 million higher than the jays to make it seem unique. and a offer of 26-27 million for a guy who most likely will not see action in the majors while in a red sox uniform just seems silly.
I totally agree with the fact that Chapman is a propect that could be a future Ace, or a future gas staion attendant. To be fair, nobody knows. Ask Yanks fans about Brian Taylor..Kid with a million dollar arm (literally), never pitched in the bigs. From what I recall, he and his brother got into a bar fight and he wrecked his shoulder. I watched him pitch a AA game in against the London (Ontario) Tigers. Kid looked gooooood. So you never really know!
With all that said, i have no issue with 25/5 for the gamble of a future, controllable stud. The dollars will have ZERO effect on the on-filed product (budget) or teh draft $$$ alloted for the 8-9 pick in rounds 1-3. Sounds like the Jays are ready to pounce on those kids that slip in the draft cause teams dont want to pay the loot. Plus, they only get ticket and beer money out of me…and I can assure you, it isnt 25 mill worth..LOL. So the cash isnt mone to lose should he be a bust.
I have enjoyed great Jays successes as a fan, and toiled through the tough times. (thank God the Doc has been around for the last 10 years…lol) and I am personally loving AA and this new approach to building a sick farm system wiht high ceiling talent everywhere..it just takes time…
Ownership has money….and lots of it. They were tired of JP and his visionless rule, so money became an issue for him. When the time and player(s) are right, this Billion dollar corporation will spend.
chapman to jays would help rebuild a fanbase that was once broken due to the departure of roy halladay. and u kno more fans , more money , everyone is happy.
I would hate to date myself and I am sure some of the Jays fans posting here may not remember, but the Jays as an organization were the first to really barnstorm the Dominecan Republic for players and development. They were the first to set up baseball camps and training facilities there (from a foreign perspective).
If my memory serves me correct and the green smog is clear in my brain a guy by the name of Eppy Guerrero (no way that is the spelling) started the Dominican craze for MLB team with the Jays leading the way. They have a great history with Spanish players!
If Chapman wants to win he will go to LA or Boston. If he wants a quick start to a starting rotation, bring his family, and more money he will go to Toronto.
And as a young man in his situation what would you do? It seems likely he takes his money, opportunity, and family accessibility (over his friend Morales) that only Toronto can provide.
If he in the minors for a year or two are you suggesting the Angel and Sox are the only ones with a chance to win 3-5 years from now?
We know the Yanks will buy humans (within the rules of MLB of course) and we know the Sox fans pretend not to be buyers in teh himan trade, but really they are the little red headed step child of the Yanks and will try to keep up with the Joneses, but I am certain I have never seen the Angels win squat. And to be fair, i have never seen the Sox win anything while “clean” either.
Aside from that, you are bang on imo.
jon heyman must be high. how could u call the chaces of jays landing chapman just decent. In his tweet he says the jays offered him 20 mil. its 23 mil buddy. and how is he involving teams like athletics , marlins and nationals? what has he learned about these teams in the past week that made him conclude that those teams were close? my suggestion to jon heyman : get off twitter and go do your job properly.
Is there any chance this kid Chapman is 27 already with a fake birth certificate and passport? Lets not forget the Jays discovered Junior Felix at a high school track meet…problem was he wasnt 18 in real life, he was already 24!!!!! Jose Cruz Jr was always suspected to have the fake birth certificate as well!!!
If the Jays sign AC, he is 22 and a future star! Should the Sox or Yanks sign him, he is really 28 and a certain bust!! LOL.
Sincerely, I hope Jays, but feel Arte and the Angels will buckle to get the $$$ close enough to make it an easier decision for the kid. The Sox, meh, Theo and ego are the only reason the Sox spend 25/5.
I do feel as though the M’s (assuming a King Felix extension is in place, not sure) would be a funny 1-2 if they panned out..and by funny I mean SICK…
Same for the Nats with a Stras/Chap 1-2…Dang!
No one is questioning the Jays ability to pay big bucks. Posters are questioning his true value. Don’t fall into the hype.
He’s 22. If he were a US citizen he’d be a lottery pick draft candidate right now pitching in college, if not already in the midst of a minor league career. The fact that he’s pitched internationally shouldn’t in itself sell him any more than what it is. The US already has many of its best minorleaguers perform on the National team on an international stage.
He has been hyped to have touched 100 mph, which might be true, but some scouts see him to be a pitcher who will eventually operate in the 92-94 mph range, which certainly makes him a strong prospect but not as desirable as a 100 mph tag might. So many of the posters here seem to think he’s a player who will appear in the minors for a few months and then make his MLB appearance later in 2010. Some scouts seem to think he will require a season or two in the minors to fully acclimate to pro ball. Note: he has never approached 200 IP in any season so such a view isn’t absurd. Non of this makes him any less of a great talent, but it’s not like he has several years in another pro league a la Dice-K.
Given all of that, when you compare this to a pitching prospect who set a contract record in Stephen Strasburg at 4/15M, who legitimately does hit 100 mph and operates in the high 90s, who has some track record of logging high inning totals in college, I would feel much more comfortable giving him a huge contract than Aroldis an even bigger one, reportedly ~8M more.
“Given all of that, when you compare this to a pitching prospect who set a contract record in Stephen Strasburg at 4/15M”
This has been talked about ad nauseum. But you can’t compare him to Strasburg. One was a number one overall pick, the other is a free agent (granted once signed hes under control for 6 plus years). The point being Strasburg only has one team to negotiate with and Chapman has 32. The only thing this costs any team is money.
But its pretty much pointless to compare him to Strasburg, becuase it’s like comparing Alex Rodiguez contract to Evan Longaria. It’s apples and oranges.
your scouting report is wrong, as a starter hes regulary in the 93-96 range touching 97 -99 at times, and occasionaly hitting 100. just correcting you. and sumone said he was in the 92-95 range in the showing in houston, last i check it said he hit 97 in houston. and was told not to throw his hardest by his agent and the teams were aware of this.
I hear that…I thought I read he touched 103 at the World Classic and that his pitching exhibition for the 15 or teams was mid 90’s, 92-95..I also heard he had 5 mins to warmup, pitched indoors and pitched for 2-3 mins and the heater was a little flat…He certainly has learning to do….So who knows.
Like I said in an earlier post, if the Jays get him, I am going to view him through my green cloudy glasses and see and legit #2 with Ace potential, if it is Yanks or Sox, he is lying about his age and will be a bust…lol…Anywhere else, I would only wish good things for him or any other kid trying to make it to the Show.
I have read somewhere he is a playboy type, want to be the man type of kid. No bs gents, TO is a great city to be just that. Ask A Rod, he likes the ripps up here, of course his wife didn’t!
I am pleased that the Nationals are now included among the teams in the mix. We know that Mike Rizzo and Stan Kasten want to work under the radar, but we Nats fans want to know that they are indeed working on the best opportunities. I don’t know if they have much of a chance, but it furthers the impression that the Nats are a serious club now, one in charge of its own destiny.
Good to see the Jays in on the bidding. They’ve freed up some money lately, brought in some prospects and draft picks. If they’re willing to spend money for a guy like Chapman they could essentially be speeding up their rebuilding effort by a year or so. If anyone other than the Yankees or Red Sox get Chapman I hope he works out because there aren’t many other teams that can afford a $20 million dollar mistake.
oddly enough the jays can afford a 20 mill mistake, at least at this stage since there payroll is low and will be get even lower next year since overbay will be gone and bj rynas money , which is about 17 mill more off the books.
Blue Jays have made Chapman a 20MM offer… and who told you all this earlier! ME? Oh… yea… I’ll take apologies when you are ready. its not 23. its not 25… its 20-21…
Thank you to my buddy @ the Boston Herald who has not yet published an article on this topic but was able to give me insight. He is an MLBTR reader, and I know he will see this message. All those of you who questioned me… there ya go. As I said, I’d admit if I was wrong and I’ll tell you as soon as his article is published. Thank you ahead of time for your apologies and I will continue to update as I hear new information. 🙂
I’m soon to get on a plane, thats why. I want to make sure you don’t think i’m ignoring or disregarding your apologies.
Here’s a link for you btw. rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx…
Have you heard anything at all about Overbay? M’s fit pre-Kotchman, haven’t heard much since.
Easy big fella.
I have no doubt questioned your Sox bias within your “impartial” posts, and your name dropping and source of a source dropping is mildly obnoxious (you are from Jersey right?…kidding…my buudy lives in a gated community somwhere there and his company is based in Hoboken now, i think), but I have noticed some of your posts beat Tim D and have been on point. Kudo’s! I am still not buying Beckett is classy, but I have never met him personally. Just a gut read.
Boston fans love to hit TO in the summertime…you should make the trip. I’d be happy to joing a couple of the Jays fans on here with you so we could drink you under the table and make fun of the Sox!
LOL.
i’ve got Raptors business to tend to…..
get over urself
Anyone who thinks Chapman will sign with a team just because of Latin ties to the club is dreaming. Ive seen people say the Jays should get Bay, Bedard, Martin, etc just because they are Canadian. Well, as a Canadian, I want the best available player whether he is from Canada, the States, Cuba or Mars. The Jays have had a lot of Latin players over the years who have liked what Toronto offered and had pretty good success (minus Bell at the end). If the Jays do get Chapman, they will have a great young pitching staff in a few years, sort of like the braves had back in the days. Drabek, Chapman, Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Rzepchinski, Stewart, Jenkins etc. Looks pretty good to me, by 2012 the Jays will be serious contenders.
Chapman may be getting bad advice. He should be thinking less about getting the top dollar and more about how he will be developed, because if he reaches his ceiling, a few extra million won’t end up mattering that much.
jays developed roy halladay. and have an abundance of well developing arms for the future, seems like a good choice to me.
Halladay’s development was extremely atypical in that he was sent back to the mLs to remake his delivery.
I think Chapman would be better served by signing with a team that would be less likely to rush him.
im guessing considering jays are going to be crap for a couple years, it gives every reason you can think of NOT to rush him, untill hes ready and the team starts to show signs of competing.
It’s pretty cool to see the Reds after him, I’m surprised nobody has talked about that. Think about in two years Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, Chapman, and Lincoln. That would be one of the best young rotations in baseball.
I believe you mean Leake.
It’s pretty cool to see the Reds after him, I’m surprised nobody has talked about that. Think about in two years Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, Chapman, and Lincoln. That would be one of the best young rotations in baseball.
It’s pretty cool to see the Reds after him, I’m surprised nobody has talked about that. Think about in two years Volquez, Cueto, Bailey, Chapman, and Lincoln. That would be one of the best young rotations in baseball.
This guy has bust written all over him.
thx for your expert scout knowledge.
It’s going to be hard to live up to the hype he’s been getting. When I first read about him, he was put into a league of his own, a Cuban phenom of unprecedented major league potential. After his workout, the hype cooled down, leaving only a handful of teams interested in an unproven fireballer. The hype, however, is still there. If he’s anything lower than a #3 in the majors, I’ll consider him a bust.
what if he ends up being a lights out closer? apparently thats a bust to you lol
Clever
Someone from Baseball America about a week ago said the Reds were in on Chapman.
yet i doubt there BIG contenders. angels sox and jays, are where he seems to be heading, with an edge to the jays at the moment.
This is an interesting post on Chapman – blogs.thetimes-tribune.com/yankees/?p=3466#more-34…
I read a post recently that made sense to me, Chapman will be making his decision at the same time AA gets back from his wedding/honeymoon. And Beeston I believe has a great relationship with Chapmans agents, I can see him signing with the Jays. They can even up the ante with all the extra cash saved, IMO it looks like hes heading to the Jays. After that its time to trade Overbay.
I still think the Angels or Red Sox swoop in with a 25/5 ish offer, something a few million or so out of Toronto’s range. Regardless, it’s a nice little coup for the Jays if he comes this way.
As for Overbay, man who would take him? Mets is the only fit right now assuming Delgado doesn’t get a re-up from them.
Fits: Giants, Mets, Baltimore so there is still a few.
Also, Overbay is still an attractive option, he’s only on a one year deal and the team acquiring him would only really need to take on his salary, I can’t imagine the prospects going back would be worth a damn. Certainly more attractive than Laroche on a multi year deal.
does anyone know torontos range? no. 20 mill might be there offer just to see if anyone goes higher….
I thought the Red Sox were close to the end of what they wanted to spend, that they didnt want to go into the luxury tax. Even so, I think AA has his eye on Chapman and he wont be overbid, the Jays have more money to throw at Chapman right now than Boston does, they had a busy signing year. The Jays have DEEP pocket owners who will dump the cash if AA thinks its appropriate.
“if the Yankees don’t sign Chapman, he’d be willing to bet that it has more to do with makeup than money”
Maybe ARod can give him some makeup tips.
coming from some one with a 6 month online scouting certificate? lmao
….OR maybe the yankees are simply tired of getting fisted by another cuban “can’t miss” prospect….
Rosenthals about a week late on this one … I posted a Reds BBA rumor about that over a week ago in the Reds Forum. Jim Callis is obviously a lot more connected
I wonder what his makeup issues are? Must be something big for the Yanks to not even bid on him.
there waiting for kei igawa’s contract is done before jumping back into unproven free agent prospects lol. plus do the yanks really need him? not at all.
I would like for my Reds to get him because we already have Volquez, Cueto, Cordero, and Hernandez as the catcher.
If the Angels match or are close Chapman will sign with them.
He’ll go the Angels. They have the entire package to offer. Warm weather, big market, winning franchise with great pitching tradition, sell out crowds, and his Cuban buddy Morales is there, and even a Latino owner. Don’t under estimate those comforts for a guy who doesn’t speak the language and is making a huge transition to a new country.
If all of those things are so important as you say, how come the Jays are the team in lead to sign him?
Ok the yankee comment is coming from a guys twitter page. His most recent twitter was “I wonder if Pete Carroll would try to trade for Matt Leinart” Dude obviously drinks the Kool-Aid!
I saw a story about Chapman on ESPN. Didn’t this kid just have a baby? I think he or she was born in Cuba after he left . I’m sure he’d really like to see his baby. At least I hope he does. So I think he’ll pick the JAYS so his family can join him right away. It was cold how he dissed his 1st agent that helped him out so much, though
From what I heard is that IF the Yankees sign him (according to Mark Newman Senior Vice President, Baseball Operations for The Yankees) that Chapman would start in Single A or Double A Baseball. So there must be something that the Yankees don’t like about him.
or maybe, just maybe, it has nothing to do with his makeup at all, hes 22 him needing time in AA, is pretty normal…
The Yankees aren’t exactly experts on developing players.
So if the Yank$ arent interested in Chapman, hes garbage??? Typical Yankee thinking, all the other teams interested in him must know nothing at all then. The Yank$ can keep signing the better pitchers like Igawa, Irabu, Pavano, Burnett etc lol
Go to the A’s! How many times do I have to say it-the A’s have a fantastic track record of turning their minor league pitchers into major league pitchers. Go to the A’s! Stay away from the Yankees-they won’t get you there! The Cardinals won’t either! The Jays will blow your arm out! Sign with the A’s.
this is another perfect example of the used car salesman commish’ ineptitude……..why is their not a worldwide draft to avoid this insanity……..toronto could not afford roy halladay and released alex rios….but has 23M to spend on an untested P from cuba who may never get out of AA???
nice that strasburg, an american, who’s parents are american, paying american taxes, had to be DRAFTED, not chose his team, and then fight for 15M due to baseball;s unwritten “slotting” system on draft picks, while chapman shows up on a boat, glove in hand, and he’s free to sign w/ whoever, not “slotting” system to debate over……….
come on bud, do something ur last few years before U are remembered only as the commish who lost a world series to a non-war issue ever and ruined the sport for eternity w/ the 2 decades of steriod abuse, thus all “sacred” baseball records forever are now under scrutiny along w/ future HOF inductees………
Toronto couldn’t afford Roy Halladay? That’s not why he was traded…
And Rios was released because he’s a bum.
Jays prez Paul Beeston specifically said that money would not be an issue in the resigning of Roy Halladay.
The funny thing is, throughout the 2009 season, there were reports that Rogers is now willing to raise the Jays payroll to be competitive with teams like the Angels and Red Sox. However, I think the fact that Halladay wanted out basically necessitated a rebuild. What were they going to do? Keep Roy, sign an FA or two like Jason Bay, finish 3rd or 4th again and then let Roy walk for nothing?
AA has said repeatedly this offseason that he plans to stock the team high level young talent, then when the core is ready Rogers will boost the payroll up to the $120 mil plus range. If this is actually true – then $23 mil for Chapman is not only reasonable, but I think a great move.
No, the Jays could have afforded Halladay easily, he just would not sign a contract with them, he wanted to play for a contender. Hes a Phillie now because he wants to win a World Series, and it wasnt happening in T.O. Not because the Jays couldnt afford him, trust me.
The Jays placed Rios on waivers because no team in baseball wanted him via trade with all that $$$ owing and he sucks and is a friggin premadonna. No heart or desire to be good.
They traded Doc because the new regime intends to build a franchise properly and in this case the teams best asset was needed to get the ball rolling.
The Jays could have paid Doc any amount of money he wanted. But he wanted to win and the Jays wont do that for a few years. Make that a couple!!!!!
The kid wants a no trade clause. All the A’s do is breed the talent then trade it.
Doesn’t this fantastic record you speak of include the wrecked arms of Harden and Karsay?